09/26/07 [Abel #99] - slit your throat

[Tapewolf]

Actually, I believe the psychiatrists don't like the word insane.  As I recall the definitions

Neurosis - compulsive actions that you are unable to control and unreasonable feelings - claustrophobia, excessive hand washing, compulsive rechecking of things, etc.

Psychosis - what you perceive doesn't exist - believing that little voices of men from Mars are telling you to kill Aniz and that tin foil will stop the voices, believing that red lights mean go, believing that a fellow is a demon and that only you can see the horns, etc.

I guess must assume that what I wrote is still unclear despite multiple attempts to clarify it.  IMHO Abel is not going to come out of this delusional - the shock is too great for that.  I'm assuming he's going to withdraw into himself and become completely non-responsive, like Dan did in #529.

[WhiteFire]

IMHO Abel is not going to come out of this delusional - the shock is too great for that.

I'm not sure that "the shock is too great for that" makes much sense in that statement?

Beyond the immediate detachment from reality that likely will let Aniz drag Able to school... well, we know he has become very neurotic, and suffers from a number of social disorders.

I'd place my bets on PTSD as well.

Anyway, on the subject of Cubi sanity, I'll lay my bets on: as long as you can function in society and accept your chosen place in it, your fine. They don't care if that place is entertaining children at a hospital to feed, or raping and torturing, as long as you can deal with it. Some range of that we might consider sociopathic, but that seems to be a normal state for Creatures anyway.

[Tapewolf]

I'm not sure that "the shock is too great for that" makes much sense in that statement?

Abel has discovered that he is a monster, and then seen three people die horribly before his very eyes, discovered that his life was a lie and that his father is a psychopath who despises his mother and apparently him too.  And that's without taking the blood phobia into account.

Now remember, Dan did go catatonic.  It didn't last long in his case, but he only went through a fraction of what Abel did (the 'discovering I'm a monster' bit).
Don't forget too that Dan is a seasoned warrior who went around killing other people for a living.  Abel is a librarian - which of these do you think is going to be psychologically tougher? 

[Caswin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

...again.

We know that 'cubi are not inherently evil, assuming evil to mean roughly "killing, hurting, etc. for the fun of it and not caring remotely about the impact on others".  Many fall under that heading anyway, but it's been firmly established as anything but universal, mainly in the cases of Dan and Abel.  Is there really any reason to call them monsters?

[AndersW]

I just had a thought.

Did Abel ever try to kill himself during his 300 some years at SAIA?

[Regal]

Is there really any reason to call them monsters?

Let's ask Hennya.

[multani82]

I just had a thought.

Did Abel ever try to kill himself during his 300 some years at SAIA?

Well, we know from Abel that every cubi goes through a state of depression in their lives. I don't know if he ever tried to COMMIT suicide, but then again he could had made the attempt.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Is there really any reason to call them monsters?

Let's ask Hennya.

Ooo, cheap shot. Hennya can tell you about one (and, to be fair, he's been pretty monstrous to her). She can't tell you about them as a group, which is what Caswin was asking.

As a group... I'm not sure we have the detail to be able to tell; we simply don't know many "typical" Cubi. Abel is atypical. Dan is atypical. Destania has been behaving atypically, but may be going back to typical. Fa'Lina is a story all her own. In fact, so far as I can tell, other than Aniz, (and I'm not sold on him) Aaryanna is the only "typical" Cubi we've seen for long enough to figure out. Generalising from one sample is bad statistics.

All the other Cubi we've seen at SAIA have been brief passes, and in a different area; they're not suitable to take as examples, because living at SAIA is different to living at Lost Lake.

[AndersW]

I just had a thought.

Did Abel ever try to kill himself during his 300 some years at SAIA?

Well, we know from Abel that every cubi goes through a state of depression in their lives. I don't know if he ever tried to COMMIT suicide, but then again he could had made the attempt.

That is what I am asking.  Did he ever attempt suicide?

[Tapewolf]

That is what I am asking.  Did he ever attempt suicide?

I doubt you're going to get an answer from anyone who knows, frankly.  In fact I'm not sure I want to know the answer anyway...

Is there really any reason to call them monsters?

Well, I'm deeply ashamed to admit it, but was kind of fun to watch your reaction 

[nikename2]

I'd venture a guess that he probably thought about it/tried but was too scared to go through with it or someone stopped him from doing it. But yeah I don't think your going to get a definitive answer at the moment.

[multani82]

I'd venture a guess that he probably thought about it/tried but was too scared to go through with it or someone stopped him from doing it. But yeah I don't think your going to get a definitive answer at the moment.

yeah I'M NOT EVEN going to make assumptions at this point of time in the comic. We just don't know exactly what happened in those 300 hundred years with Abel at SAIA college. We'll just have to wait and see if it shows in the abel strips, or if and when Abel divulges more information about his past.

[WhiteFire]

I'm not sure that "the shock is too great for that" makes much sense in that statement?

Abel has discovered that he is a monster, and then seen three people die horribly before his very eyes, discovered that his life was a lie and that his father is a psychopath who despises his mother and apparently him too.  And that's without taking the blood phobia into account.

Now remember, Dan did go catatonic.  It didn't last long in his case, but he only went through a fraction of what Abel did (the 'discovering I'm a monster' bit).
Don't forget too that Dan is a seasoned warrior who went around killing other people for a living.  Abel is a librarian - which of these do you think is going to be psychologically tougher? 

I'm not arguing it was not a massive shock, in fact, that's kinda my point. You said:

IMHO Abel is not going to come out of this delusional - the shock is too great for that.

Why would increasing values of "shock" reduce the chance of becoming delusional? I'd say the relationship would be the other way around.

edit: fixed some quoting

[Tapewolf]

I'm not arguing it was not a massive shock, in fact, that's kinda my point. You said:

IMHO Abel is not going to come out of this delusional - the shock is too great for that.

Why would increasing values of "shock" reduce the chance of becoming delusional? I'd say the relationship would be the other way around.

You're right - that should have read:  "Abel is not going to come out of this merely delusional - the shock is too great for that."

What I am saying is that it's liable to give him a total breakdown and put him into a catatonic, non-responsive state for an extended period of time.  The 'what is sane' question has no relevance if the lights are on but no-one's home.

Yes, I can imagine him becoming delusional afterwards but with Dan as an example, I think the shock is enough to take him down completely.  "Hello son, you've been in a coma for 20 years, welcome to SAIA..." that kind of thing.

[WhiteFire]

You're right - that should have read:  "Abel is not going to come out of this merely delusional - the shock is too great for that."

Oh, that explains my confusion then. I totally agree. He is probably going to be drooling on the floor by the next time we see him.

[multani82]

If I had to vote on it, I would go for Abel being in a catatonic state for quite sometime. I seriously doubt he would be put in a shock induced coma. But, it HAS happened before so I won't rule out the possibility.

[AndersW]

That is what I am asking.  Did he ever attempt suicide?

I doubt you're going to get an answer from anyone who knows, frankly.  In fact I'm not sure I want to know the answer anyway...

I wasn't expecting an answer.  It was a possibility I came up with.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Well, I'm deeply ashamed to admit it, but was kind of fun to watch your reaction 

*snerk*

You're right - that should have read:  "Abel is not going to come out of this merely delusional - the shock is too great for that."

Oh, that explains my confusion then. I totally agree. He is probably going to be drooling on the floor by the next time we see him.

Possibly. My one objection to this is that it's an easy out, plot-wise. 20 years on, his sole remaining parent that he might want to talk to is now dead, all his childhood friends are gone, etc. All there is left is make a whole new life over in SAIA.

While it makes sense, it's too easy for Amber. She's not too likely to take that step, based on what she's put herself through in the past, IMHO. ;-] While I'd be happy for her to do so, I suspect she still has some surprises in store. Steamroller-fashion.

[Tapewolf]

While it makes sense, it's too easy for Amber.

I dunno... I can think of at least two heartrending ways of doing it...

[Valynth]

I'll summarize in two sentences what Llearch took a page to say.

All things mental are relative.  The insane man considers the sane man to be insane; who is to say which view is correct?

The majority.

You'd be surprised how often that doesn't happen....

[Caswin]

As a group... I'm not sure we have the detail to be able to tell; we simply don't know many "typical" Cubi. Abel is atypical. Dan is atypical. Destania has been behaving atypically, but may be going back to typical. Fa'Lina is a story all her own. In fact, so far as I can tell, other than Aniz, (and I'm not sold on him) Aaryanna is the only "typical" Cubi we've seen for long enough to figure out. Generalising from one sample is bad statistics.

On the other hand: If we can, for whatever reason, assume that Aaryanna is genuinely "typical", then I'd say we already have generalized.  On top of that, typical or not, Fa'Lina, Aniz, and Destania - to say nothing of bit-player 'cubi, Abel's "jerk" speech, and their overall reputation - have all strayed pretty close to the approximate "monster" archetype.

Is there really any reason to call them monsters?

Well, I'm deeply ashamed to admit it, but was kind of fun to watch your reaction 

...hurting, etc. for the fun of it and not caring remotely about the impact on others

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Is there really any reason to call them monsters?

Well, I'm deeply ashamed to admit it, but was kind of fun to watch your reaction 

...hurting, etc. for the fun of it and not caring remotely about the impact on others

Hey, he cares.

Obviously he cares, otherwise he wouldn't have enjoyed watching your reaction... ;-]

[Tapewolf]

On the other hand: If we can, for whatever reason, assume that Aaryanna is genuinely "typical", then I'd say we already have generalized.  On top of that, typical or not, Fa'Lina, Aniz, and Destania - to say nothing of bit-player 'cubi, Abel's "jerk" speech, and their overall reputation - have all strayed pretty close to the approximate "monster" archetype.

Well, hopefully we should be getting some more sample data when Abel is up and running at SAIA.  Remember also that there have been a not-insignificant number of 'Cubi adventurers who were brought up as Beings - whether SAIA shapes them into the basic 'monster' configuration over time is unclear.
If the object of SAIA is to help ensure the survival of the species, it would not make sense to do that, since a variety of attitudes will help continue said species as much as a variety of genes would.

hurting, etc. for the fun of it and not caring remotely about the impact on others

Yeah, sorry about that, but it was soooo tempting...

Hey, he cares.
Obviously he cares, otherwise he wouldn't have enjoyed watching your reaction... ;-]

Or felt guilty about doing it

[Zedd]

I might be pleted for this but...IM GLAD THAT PINK WORM IS DEAD!!! Hahahahahahahaha!
I would done the same slashing the mess out of the little squirming retard....I just hope satan has a cold colon for her to rot in! 

[Tapewolf]

I might be pleted for this but...IM GLAD THAT PINK WORM IS DEAD!!! Hahahahahahahaha!

Zedd, have you forgotten to take your medication or something?

[Zedd]

I might be pleted for this but...IM GLAD THAT PINK WORM IS DEAD!!! Hahahahahahahaha!

Zedd, have you forgotten to take your medication or something?

No..I am just being serious to my emontions right now dear sir

[Naldru]

In her blog, Aaryanna indicates that the normal method of breaking up with a being is to kill the being.  Could that be what Destania is referring to when she says she'll have to kill Edward.  If so, would Aniz be expected to kill May when he leaves her by the standards of cubi society?

Just throwing out one more piece of fluffy nonsense to see who pounces on it.

[superluser]

In her blog, Aaryanna indicates that the normal method of breaking up with a being is to kill the being.

Yet Aaryanna didn't kill Merlitz, even with Fa'Lina watching.

[Naldru]

In her blog, Aaryanna indicates that the normal method of breaking up with a being is to kill the being.

Yet Aaryanna didn't kill Merlitz, even with Fa'Lina watching.

Maybe after Aniz messed things up so badly trying to find a way not to kill May, some of the cubi came to the conclusion that you could let them live if it really meant that much to you.  Of course, a few traditionalists like Destania would still feel that the old ways are the best ways.  Maybe Aniz did something decent after all, but in a way that would mess up Abel even more.

As I said, just something to raise on a stick like a hat in the old westerns to see how many bullets and arrows come along.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Well, hopefully we should be getting some more sample data when Abel is up and running at SAIA.

Assuming that Amber intends to keep Abel's Story running after he gets to SAIA. I believe she's mentioned in passing that she intended to end the story when Abel reaches SAIA. Whether that's still her intention or not is another question entirely...