Semi-omnipotence?

[Caswin]

Maybe this would go better in the Info Kiosk, but I wanted to get this settled once and for all.  Fa'lina's claim of being "semi-omnipotent" never did seem right.  Her profile in the Wiku-Wiki backs what it originally sounded like to me - she comes off as closer to omniscience than omnipotence (which, various other implications aside, would put Dan at a rather significant disadvantage if they ever did fight).

And yet, there it is in the non-open-source comic.  And we haven't actually seen anything to imply real limits to her power.  So I gotta ask - which one's right?

[Magic]

You know, the former I've always thought of as a hasty generalization, theory or otherwise.

"Fa'lina is semi-omniscient, not semi-omnipotent."

We have yet to see Fa'lina's entire story or her nature/background (barring the extremely brief history lesson and the demonology article; we need -relevant- evidence pertaining to her semi-omnipotence)--

--if that will ever be revealed to us, for any purpose.

There not being any other relevant evidence on the matter makes the outcome of this query depend on whether or not Amber will reply to you right here and now.

I'm sorry to say, tragic waste of topic; unless you enjoy the wild theories that people will come up with, which may or may not truly answer your question.

[Brunhidden]

omnicence- all knowing
omnipotent- all powerfull

omnicence and omnipotence are usually hand in hand. consider, if you KNOW everything, does that not make you nearly all powerful?

lets say you were a military commander, if you were omnipotent you could flatten the enemies cities and troops with divine wrath or turn them all into piles of aged cheese. if you were omnicent you would know exactly where they would move, send your troops accordingly, know exactly where their troops are not and where your troops should not be. victory is assured either way.

knowledge is power, especially in a place like furrae where you can know exactly what someones weakness is, possibly know obscure spells you've never heard of just by thinking, and knowing exactly where every trap door, enemy reinforcement, allied warrior, wandering monster, man eating plant, and whatever else will be.

Don't make me get old testament on your asses

[Tapewolf]

This is my take on it: http://dmfa.wikia.com/wiki/Fa%27Lina
(That's the only item we have on Fa'Lina right now, by the way.  Any takers?)

[King Of Hearts]

And to be anal, there is no such thing as "semi-omni _____"

Its just a pet peeve of mine who use terms like nigh-invincible.

Its either your are have infinite power, or you have finite power... even if you have oodles of power but is has a limit then it is not infinite.

[Magic]

-snip-

Your argument is sound, but it works on different assumptions. We're assuming that omniscience and omnipotence are different. Whether or not they are is not the question, the question is whether or not Fa'lina is one or the other.

-snip

"Apparently in error"?

We have nine thousand years plus years of her life we do not yet know of, and the depth of her character we have not fully explored. Offhand comments and appearances in recent events does not a character's biography make, and consequently we can not conclude that she is not semi-omnipotent.

Unless of course, I'm expecting the evidence to which you can back up that it was indeed an error? In my mind, I'm thinking that there might be, and that you know of it. Especially since I haven't been keeping track of the forums as vigilantly.

I cannot refute that, but otherwise my statement stands.

EDIT: And the former post just enforces my doubts on that. Could be that it was an error, considering the awkwardness of the word's meaning itself.

-snip-

Bravo. I salute you for that.

[Tapewolf]

"Apparently in error"?

We have nine thousand years plus years of her life we do not yet know of, and the depth of her character we have not fully explored. Offhand comments and appearances in recent events does not a character's biography make, and consequently we can not conclude that she is not semi-omnipotent.

I say it's an error, because, as we discussed last time this came up, she says she is semi-omnipotent and then promptly describes omniscience.  That looks like a typo to me.

Besides, it's a wiki.  If you don't like what I've written, you are perfectly free to do a better job yourself.

**EDIT**
I'm not ruling out omnipotence, but I haven't seen any evidence of it so far.  Some form of omniscience she may have, but it's obviously not bug-free.

[Kasarn]

And to be anal, there is no such thing as "semi-omni _____"

Its just a pet peeve of mine who use terms like nigh-invincible.

Its either your are have infinite power, or you have finite power... even if you have oodles of power but is has a limit then it is not infinite.

Reminds me of an episode of Daria when Trent ponders how something can be colder than subzero...

Trent: Even if it's colder, that's still subzero.
Max: Yeah, but Trent, it's the wind chill.

[King Of Hearts]

There can be something colder than sub zero since the term is used to describe anything below 0 degrees celsius... Assuming of course that the sub zero temperature in question is not Absolute Zero. [0 Kelvin]

But yeah if the term is used to describe a temperature down to Absolute Zero then there shouldnt be anything colder than it.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

And to be anal, there is no such thing as "semi-omni _____"

Its just a pet peeve of mine who use terms like nigh-invincible.

Its either your are have infinite power, or you have finite power... even if you have oodles of power but is has a limit then it is not infinite.

infinite / 2 = infinite.

That's one of the neat properties of infinities. If you're only half-infinite power, you're still infinite power. It doesn't make sense, because it doesn't make sense. Nothing more, nothing less.


maths is weird. :-)

[King Of Hearts]

Divide by Zero, O shi--

Another reason why the term shouldnt work.

The term uses "semi" in its definition as partial in this context, however.

[ShiningShadow]

Guys, I think, at this point, that Fa'Lina, whatever her powers (i'm leaning towards omniscience, if a Cubi) relies on SAIA as a source of all magic etc. Then that Cubi will use that power, towards ones ends. Since Fa'Lina created that academy in the first place, I think the location where the magic is so strong, and can be given to all Cubi's, but when leaving the academy, I think their magic is only temporary until they need food - like sucking emotions and stuff - to replenish that lost magic. In a nutshell SAIA is a endless supply of energy and the Cubi's are the rechargeable batteries to absorb that magical energy.


(See a pattern yet?)

[Zedd]

For once someone might be right. Just keep sure hold onto that theory,we might find out soon or later people cause we caution our minds with knowing most all I hope.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Coherence is a gift...

Let me give it to you.

[Sid]

The term uses "semi" in its definition as partial in this context, however.

Well, I'm halfway certain that any part of Infinity is still Infinity
I usually use "quasi-omnipotent" or "quasi-infinite powers" to describe "heckuvalot powah". Not the most scientific term, but at least it's a bit harder to tear apart by people who know their definitions

On-topic, I think that this comic pretty much explains things, at least from Fa'Lina's point of view. Within SAIA, she has "complete insight and power" (even though I personally doubt this to a degree). Outside of SAIA, she finds her limits.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Personally, I trust Fa'Lina to tell the truth.

No, really.


(Not.)

[Jim Halisstrad]

I first read this topic as Semi-impotence.

There was much relief when I read the thread.  HEY I'M A POET AND D*Headshot*

[Kasarn]

I first read this topic as Semi-impotence.

There was much relief when I read the thread.  HEY I'M A POET AND D*Headshot*

I AM IMPOTENT!
*henchmen snigger*
...wait, I didn't mean that... it didn't come out right!

[superluser]

omnicence- all knowing
omnipotent- all powerfull

omnicence and omnipotence are usually hand in hand. consider, if you KNOW everything, does that not make you nearly all powerful?

Well, there's Cassandra, who could predict the future, but was doomed to have no one believe it.  Croesus also sought out the oracle at Delphi for advice on whether to go to war.  The oracle responded that if he should march against the Persians he should destroy a great empire.

The empire that he destroyed was his own.

Coherence is a gift...

Let me give it to you.

There are few things more annoying than someone repeatedly calling someone (be it myself or others) annoying.  Which is why I tend not to say that a lot.  On the other hand, you can't argue with results.  Any chance of paragraph breaks?

(what if ShiningShadow were gifted with omniscience?  Would that result in omnipotence?)

[Stygian]

You know, this all really only becomes amusing when you take into account the finity of the amount of energy in the universe, dark energy, and the hubble constant. Then, you start to see some funky-ass shit. Like raisin bread everywhere. Wowaweowah!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

There are few things more annoying than someone repeatedly calling someone (be it myself or others) annoying.  Which is why I tend not to say that a lot.  On the other hand, you can't argue with results.  Any chance of paragraph breaks?

We're attempting to train, here. If it happens that more intervention is needed, we'll think about it.

I'd throw a paragraph break in, but it was a single paragraph. So the only way I could do that is by breaking the flow of the sentences, which wasn't the aim.

Maybe next time?

[MaskedRetriever]

Divide by Zero, O shi--

Another reason why the term shouldnt work.

The term uses "semi" in its definition as partial in this context, however.

Now wait just a minute there philosophical sports fans, "infinity" and "all of it" are two different things.

Say you want to know everything.

Catalog every position of every particle, to the subatomic, and every force acting on it, along with every position it ever will have.

Impossible, obviously, but you would then know everything.

Once that's done, anyone who sat down and read half your notes would be semi-omniscient.  Indeed we could get sloppy with the term and say anyone who'd read a significant fraction of your notes was also semi-omniscient as in "a jolly good fraction of" as opposed to "exactly half".

So she can be semi-omniscient, semi-omnipotent, and even nigh-invulnerable because these terms do not imply the infinite, merely the very very LARGE set of possibilities in the universe.

Which is still (assuming we're looking at things with our radiotelescopes) finite.

[ShiningShadow]

Okay then what if Falina has the ability to see the endless possibilities of each action is taken.

Then there are many scenarios that Falina see and she know the outcome of it, perhaps to somehow to alter it for her ends to get the right action taken.

That's how I see it at this point and don't forget when she was at SAIA she knows everything and how to planned them accordinly.  But when she left the grounds of SAIA her powers were dimishing making her less powerful than before.

I think she tends to be manipulative towards other beings  to get the results in the scenario she has seen before it has happened.

Am I wrong with this pattern and how Falina thinks when she does the knowing all and seeing all act.

[Aridas]

Yes.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I think, ShiningShadow, that her -powers- aren't diminished by leaving SAIA - but her -foresight- is.

So... she can do just as much, but she can't manage to figure out ahead of time what the result of those actions is, quite as well as she would when she is back at SAIA.

As for her motives - the people would like to register this as evidence... Particularly panel 4...

[superluser]

That's one of the neat properties of infinities. If you're only half-infinite power, you're still infinite power. It doesn't make sense, because it doesn't make sense. Nothing more, nothing less.

Perhaps so, but, building on MaskedRetriever's comments, let me offer a bit of counterargument.  Let's say that you know e.  Not just 2.7 Andrew Jackson squared isosceles right triangle, but every last digit out to infinity.  You now have an infinite amount of knowledge.

Now you learn that there's another number, called pi.  You don't know pi to even one digit.  You still contain an infinite amount of knowledge, but you're only semi-omniscient about pi and e.

Edit: Ooh!  Actually, that would be fun, because if Fa'Lina's omniscient in SAIA, you could run all sorts of precise scientific experiments there and know the outcomes to extremely high confidence levels.  And you'd know the answers before you ran the experiments.  Gravity Probe B would be completely unnecessary.

[Amber Williams]

You are all also forgetting the possibility Fa'Lina chose that particular phrase not for its accuracy, but because it was something that Dan could understand since he likely wouldn't be the type to fuddle over the definition.

[Tapewolf]

You are all also forgetting the possibility Fa'Lina chose that particular phrase not for its accuracy, but because it was something that Dan could understand since he likely wouldn't be the type to fuddle over the definition.

Heh.  I had been wondering if it was a slip-of-the-tongue, e.g. "Did I say omnipotence?  I meant 'omniscience'."
While that would be slightly out-of-character for Fa'Lina, it is something which I haven't seen in comics very much - even though it happens a lot in real life.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

You are all also forgetting the possibility Fa'Lina chose that particular phrase not for its accuracy, but because it was something that Dan could understand since he likely wouldn't be the type to fuddle over the definition.

I didn't! I said I didn't trust her to tell the truth at all!


... or was that a different thread?

[Amber Williams]

I can never tell. Sometimes whenever people mention Fa'Lina, the only thing I ever hear is Stygian going "rawr. I hates Fa'Lina. Grrr."