09/01/2014 - [DMFA #1512] Fantastic Racism

[Howl]

I'm going to be a rebel here and change the date formatting to what's used on the missmab site. Some mod edit it if you want, but it's tedious to arrange.

As for Biggs, he seems to be forgetting one of Wildy's best friends (perhaps best friend period) is an incubus. He's also slamming Destania pretty hard by proxy, but really she has that coming,

[Tapewolf]

As for Biggs, he seems to be forgetting one of Wildy's best friends (perhaps best friend period) is an incubus. He's also slamming Destania pretty hard by proxy, but really she has that coming,

He does seem to be generalising rather a lot, especially since he's a Creature himself.  He may be right for the narrow case of most Demons, and broken people like Destania or Aniz.  And in a practical sense that works given that Demons are the main Creature race you're most likely to run into.

But I think it's more a matter of upbringing - consider Dan or Lorenda, who haven't had the conscience beaten out of them in the way other Creatures might have.  I guess the big question is whether that happens because Beings switch off their consciences when it comes to Creatures, like Biggs is suggesting...

[lemurvid]

As for Biggs, he seems to be forgetting one of Wildy's best friends (perhaps best friend period) is an incubus. He's also slamming Destania pretty hard by proxy, but really she has that coming,

He does seem to be generalising rather a lot, especially since he's a Creature himself.

Wait... what?
How is Biggs a Creature? Ferrets aren't Creatures. Did I miss something?

Also, Biggs must know that no-one is more empathic than a 'cubi. It's what they do.

[Tapewolf]

Wait... what?
How is Biggs a Creature? Ferrets aren't Creatures. Did I miss something?

If you look really closely at the Creature Council images, he's human, five fingers and all.  I'm pretty sure that his Wereness was confirmed on Twitter.

[lemurvid]

Wait... what?
How is Biggs a Creature? Ferrets aren't Creatures. Did I miss something?

If you look really closely at the Creature Council images, he's human, five fingers and all.  I'm pretty sure that his Wereness was confirmed on Twitter.

I know not these Creature Council images of which you speak.
But does this mean that Wildy is not actually his sister?

[Tapewolf]

I know not these Creature Council images of which you speak.
But does this mean that Wildy is not actually his sister?

It's the ones where all the members of the council are shadowed.  I can't remember the pages now, and I don't have time to look.
I don't know about Wildy's heritage.  I do remember the tweet saying that Wildy was going to be Were too but the idea was dropped because there were too many Creatures in the cast.

[MT Hazard]

But I think it's more a matter of upbringing - consider Dan or Lorenda, who haven't had the conscience beaten out of them in the way other Creatures might have.  I guess the big question is whether that happens because Beings switch off their consciences when it comes to Creatures, like Biggs is suggesting...

Abel would seem to support that view, that its their upbringing, rather than their basic nature. I'm sure we can all think of certain groups of humans that were brought up with the idea they were superior to others, so a massive difference in biology isn't required to hold that world view.

[Eboreg]

Let me just point out that the man who feels sympathy for his enemy is the man who does not survive.

[Tapewolf]

Let me just point out that the man who feels sympathy for his enemy is the man who does not survive.

I'll have to add that to Keaton's lines in 'Heads you lose'.

[D'ymkarra]

He does seem to be generalising rather a lot, especially since he's a Creature himself.  He may be right for the narrow case of most Demons, and broken people like Destania or Aniz.  And in a practical sense that works given that Demons are the main Creature race you're most likely to run into.

But I think it's more a matter of upbringing - consider Dan or Lorenda, who haven't had the conscience beaten out of them in the way other Creatures might have.  I guess the big question is whether that happens because Beings switch off their consciences when it comes to Creatures, like Biggs is suggesting...

I would also surmise a lot that conscience is a result of them having been raised as beings; This gives them a somewhat unique perspective when it comes to morality & ethics..

[Tapewolf]

I would also surmise a lot that conscience is a result of them having been raised as beings; This gives them a somewhat unique perspective when it comes to morality & ethics..

That would definitely help, but I'm not sure it's the only factor.  For example, Kria and DP love their family, but by the looks of it theyswitch off their conscience for Beings in exactly the same way as Biggs is saying Beings should for Creatures...

[Eboreg]

Let me just point out that the man who feels sympathy for his enemy is the man who does not survive.

I'll have to add that to Keaton's lines in 'Heads you lose'.

Of course, Keaton is forgetting the counterpart to that rule, "An enemy isn't defeated until he's become a friend."

[FoxFeather]

Hey! Lurker here =3 I was curious about what was said about Biggs, and did some digging. Here is the page where the creature council is seen, including what strongly appears to be him. Cheers!

http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_366.php

[lemurvid]

Hey! Lurker here =3 I was curious about what was said about Biggs, and did some digging. Here is the page where the creature council is seen, including what strongly appears to be him. Cheers!

http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_366.php

Well done! I must say though that I'm not sure I could count his fingers from that.
But it does look a lot like Biggs and sitting on the Creature Council is a bit of a giveaway.
Unless... gasp! Unless it's... Destania!

[Treesong]

While Biggs is a racist, let's not forget his valid comment about the powerfulness of creatures. If you can squash beings as easily as you stomp an ant, you're liable to view them as you would ants. Particularly if you spend all your time among creatures and never get to see the ants as persons. So I think the safest assumption, if not the most charitable, is to assume creatures are conscienceless toward beings--in the absence of counterevidence. Killing one's mother is not counterevidence.

[Ops Fox]

If I remember correctly from the demonology 101 page there are no Weres on the council because Weres prefer to remain hidden.

http://www.missmab.com/Demo/were.php
"To this date there isn't even a Were on the Creature-Being council." - important bit from the above link

I do get a strong feeling though that the character in comic 366 is biggs though, so he must be a creature I am just not sure what kind. Unless Amber simply has not updated that section of the demonology page in while and its information about Weres is out of date.

[Tapewolf]

If I remember correctly from the demonology 101 page there are no Weres on the council because Weres prefer to remain hidden.

http://www.missmab.com/Demo/were.php
"To this date there isn't even a Were on the Creature-Being council." - important bit from the above link

This is true, but there's more than one council.  The Being-Creature Council is the thing set up to try and sort out inter-racial grievances.
The Creature Council is the shadowy organisation which was wondering whether to assassinate Jyrras, and nothing has been said about its membership thus far.

[Amber Williams]

If you look really closely at the Creature Council images, he's human, five fingers and all.  I'm pretty sure that his Wereness was confirmed on Twitter.

*quirks brow* Are you sure you read that twitter post correctly?

[Tapewolf]

*quirks brow* Are you sure you read that twitter post correctly?

I may not have remembered it correctly.

[lemurvid]

OK, calling it. Biggs is a ferret. He's always been a ferret. Wiley is a ferret. Neither of them is Destania. This is not a drill.

[ZacAttac21]

*quirks brow* Are you sure you read that twitter post correctly?

I may not have remembered it correctly.

I know I brought up this topic before, and I'm pretty sure you said it was tweeted that he wasn't a were.

[VAE]

Let me just point out that the man who feels sympathy for his enemy is the man who does not survive.

I'll have to add that to Keaton's lines in 'Heads you lose'.

Of course, Keaton is forgetting the counterpart to that rule, "An enemy isn't defeated until he's become a friend."

I will make you more than a friend.. I will make you a piece of myself. *soulchomp*

[Prroul]

I just want to know what quirk of personality that has a tendency to be present in most of humanity that when an 'us vs them' scenario happens, people almost invariably take one side or the other and their logic and reasoning on the topic goes to 'We are right the <other side> are wrong because that is the way it is'.

The problem is also that if a Being gets pissed at a Creature, the results are humorous. But if a Creature gets pissed at a Being or group of Beings... it's generally body bags all 'round. Fear triggers the flight or fight response. Those who trigger 'fight' realize that a fair fight isn't going to work. So it's best to use every tactical advantage possible, to hell with morality, this is survival. Which generally spirals into 'Hatfields and McCoys part n-th' and plenty of body bags all over the place.

Unless 'someone' manages to find a power equalizer. Then all bets are off, and the Creatures might end up extinct. Because while Beings may be relatively squishy... there's an awful LOT of them. Even if it took a hundred Beings with a power equalizer to take down one Creature, it'd still be doable. And Beings have generations of reasons to do just that, even though it isn't universally applicable.

I think I see the 'end game' that Mab is afraid of.. Creatures are killed off, Dragons and Fae go to some other dimension and leave the Beings with their victory. Wherein they promptly turn on each other in a M.A.D. scenario.

[VAE]

I just want to know what quirk of personality that has a tendency to be present in most of humanity that when an 'us vs them' scenario happens, people almost invariably take one side or the other and their logic and reasoning on the topic goes to 'We are right the <other side> are wrong because that is the way it is'.

Well, people are a tribal species. Anyhow, for why this is a good idea - look at the non-alligned movement in the Cold War which with a few exceptions was really "countries nobody cares about". In general, when there's a stable conflict between two factions, your best bets are with either of them, unless you absolutely can't, not the least because not being allied to either means both will likely treat you as an enemy. Makes me remember that story from N. Ireland our geography teacher in HS told - apparently his friend was there and was grabbed by a couple thugs.
"Catholic or protestant?"
"Uh, I'm an atheist."
"Allright, but a catholic atheist or a protestant one?" 

The problem is also that if a Being gets pissed at a Creature, the results are humorous. But if a Creature gets pissed at a Being or group of Beings... it's generally body bags all 'round. Fear triggers the flight or fight response. Those who trigger 'fight' realize that a fair fight isn't going to work. So it's best to use every tactical advantage possible, to hell with morality, this is survival. Which generally spirals into 'Hatfields and McCoys part n-th' and plenty of body bags all over the place.

Unless 'someone' manages to find a power equalizer. Then all bets are off, and the Creatures might end up extinct. Because while Beings may be relatively squishy... there's an awful LOT of them. Even if it took a hundred Beings with a power equalizer to take down one Creature, it'd still be doable. And Beings have generations of reasons to do just that, even though it isn't universally applicable.

I think I see the 'end game' that Mab is afraid of.. Creatures are killed off, Dragons and Fae go to some other dimension and leave the Beings with their victory. Wherein they promptly turn on each other in a M.A.D. scenario.

I wouldn't necessarily see the last bit as a necessity, anymore than it'd elsewhere. More like a new all-being council trying to enforce order all around. And well, given relatively high reproductive rate of beings, the society will likely be able to take whatever comes.

[Lying Foo]

If you look really closely at the Creature Council images, he's human, five fingers and all.  I'm pretty sure that his Wereness was confirmed on Twitter.

Pretty sure what was confirmed on Twitter was that he was supposed to be a Were, but Amber changed her mind at the eleventh hour.  That's why the Were on the Demonology page looks so much like him - that was him on the council when the strip ran, but now in retrospect it was her.

[Arcblade]

I just wanted to drop in and throw props at Amber (tosses prop hamburgers) for making her villains "real."  True evil, in my experience, is much less "I'll just go burn down an orphanage" and much more "it's okay to hate/murder these particular people because they're not people."  

Life is a lot more complicated than most media likes to portray, and people who otherwise seem like nice people can turn out to be, well... monsters.  Kria kills and eats Beings when it suits her inclinations or politics.  Destania and Biggs are plotting to destruction of an entire species of Creature, part of which apparently included killing a 'cubi clan leader and severely messing up 261 peoples' lives (her clan).  Yet all of these are characters with some redeeming qualities, and each has fans because of those qualities. 

Amber isn't writing easy villains, and seems determined to paint the world of Furrae in all its colors, dark and light.  I'm extremely impressed, and very glad I read DMFA.  Such storytelling is not to be missed.  

[Zebra Bug]

Biggs is certainly generalizing a lot there. I'm late to the conversation and see that most people agree with that point, and have said what I was thinking. XD So um, nothing really new to add, except this is giving Wildy a lot to think about, and she'll compare what her brother told her to what she has seen of Dan, Mab, Lorenda and Abel...and she'll have a lot to ponder on.

[Kuzma Volkov]

Hey! Lurker here =3 I was curious about what was said about Biggs, and did some digging. Here is the page where the creature council is seen, including what strongly appears to be him. Cheers!

http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_366.php

Am I the only one that has always thought, that was Jy's dad?


http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_338.php

[ZacAttac21]

Hey! Lurker here =3 I was curious about what was said about Biggs, and did some digging. Here is the page where the creature council is seen, including what strongly appears to be him. Cheers!

http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_366.php

Am I the only one that has always thought, that was Jy's dad?


http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_338.php

I sincerely doubt that. That's definitely Biggs. Maybe he gained a position on the council simply because the Twinks are that powerful.

[Alondro]

Let me just point out that the man who feels sympathy for his enemy is the man who does not survive.

Not true at all!  I always say, "Sorry about that." to my enemies after I rip their hearts out. 

I even make sure to do it before they bleed out so they can hear it!