Microphone Madness

[James StarRunner]

Well, my current headset microphone is falling apart. It never was built for durability. I simply picked it up and it's own weight broke the headband off. Then I had to balance the microphone on my head with it's earpiece. Now even the earpiece is broken and I had to resort to elastic-banding the microphone to my face.

So, I need a new mic, but am getting confused with browsing through different microphones. I wanted to move up to a studio quality mic, but it seems for most of them I'd need a pre-amp, this, that, the other, and even my left leg as a sacrifice. I was just thinking I could get a professional quality microphone that just plugs into my laptop and not have a studio take half my room. Perhaps when I have more money, I will make a decent studio, but all I need now is to replace a microphone with something which isn't a cheap $20 one for talking on MSN. Any suggestions? (links to the page where I can purchase said microphones are greatly appreciated)

[Tapewolf]

So, I need a new mic, but am getting confused with browsing through different microphones. I wanted to move up to a studio quality mic, but it seems for most of them I'd need a pre-amp, this, that, the other, and even my left leg as a sacrifice. I was just thinking I could get a professional quality microphone that just plugs into my laptop and not have a studio take half my room.

One possibility is the Shure PG48-QTR.  It's a relatively cheap (around $40 USD) vocal mic that doesn't need a 48v supply.  The level isn't brilliant so it does need some kind of preamp, but most soundcards have an internal one these days which should suffice.

Note that there are two versions - the PG48-XLR and the PG48-QTR.  The difference is in the cable they ship with - the XLR one (obviously) ships with an XLR cable that won't plug into your laptop without some kind of adaptor which will probably cost about half as much as the mic itself.
The QTR version ships with a cable that ends with a 1/4" jack.  You will need this one, and probably also a 1/4" -> 3.5mm adaptor, but those are like 99p each.

I'm having difficulty persuading Google to show me results relevant to Canada, so I can't give you a link, I'm afraid...

[James StarRunner]

Well, if needed, we have access to a post office box in the United States, so it doesn't really need to be in Canada. The adapter may come easily enough. This certainly gives me insight to what I need. I may look at other microphones like this one. Thanks Tape!

[Tezkat]

Budget?

There are now quite a few condenser mics in the sub-$100 range that don't require phantom power. The first to market was MXL's Desktop Recording Kit (which uses a 9v battery to provide phantom power). There are also a number of USB-powered condenser mics that are popular among the AVA crowd: Sampson's CO1U, MXL's 990 USB, and Blue Microphones' Snowball. All of these will plug right into your laptop (though the USB ones might not work very well unless you're on AC power).

Musician's Friend now ships to Canada. Or you could go looking for a pro audio shop (like Long & McQuade) in your area.

Make sure to pick up all the cables and extras you need. Some kits come with everything, some don't. Some mics don't even come with a shock mount, let alone a stand. (Holding a condenser mic in your hand doesn't work--they're too sensitive.) I happen to prefer simple boom mounts to mic stands, myself, since you can adjust them easily and use them while standing. They take up a lot of space when they're set up, but they can fold up nice and small. A pop filter could help, too, although there's always the "coathangers and pantyhose" option.

[James StarRunner]

For budget, I'm not totally worried if I do it piece by piece. On the same note though, I currently don't have enough for both a high grade condenser mic and a required preamp for it, so I am somewhat limited in mics right now. I'll take a look between the mics you and Tape have suggested and use one of those until I can upgrade later.

A studio quality pop filter doesn't seem to cost much at all, so I'll likely get one later. I've just been using card stock as a cheap alternative.

My only question right now it with shock mounts, boom mounts, and mic stands. What's the difference?

[Tezkat]

My only question right now it with shock mounts, boom mounts, and mic stands. What's the difference?

Shock mounts...

Condenser mics are super sensitive. They'll pick up every little sound, so they're usually mounted in little elastic harnesses that cushion them against noise from floor, stand, and cable vibration. Most condenser mics ship with them, but it's notable that a number of the podcasting kits don't. (They just have tiny, non-adjustable stands.) The shock mounts attach to a stand or boom.

Mic stands...

Some let you put the mic on your desk. Others are designed to use while standing. A boom is really just a tall stand with a swivel arm attached. Nice if you're working on the computer or reading off a script, because you can mount the mic from above you or otherwise keep it out of the way while you're typing, sitting, standing, etc. It's really helpful if you plan to record multiple people at once. Ultimately, it's a personal thing that depends on how you want to set up your recording area. You don't need an expensive one, anyway. I think I paid $10 for my desktop stand (which I rarely use) and $20 for my boom.

For budget, I'm not totally worried if I do it piece by piece. On the same note though, I currently don't have enough for both a high grade condenser mic and a required preamp for it, so I am somewhat limited in mics right now. I'll take a look between the mics you and Tape have suggested and use one of those until I can upgrade later.

Unfortunately, most of these don't work unless you have at least one of everything.

Condenser Mic w/ Shockmount - $60+ (e.g. MXL 990)
Preamp - $30+ (e.g. cheap tube amps from ART)
Cables - $20-30 (XLR-XLR for preamp, XLR-3.5mm for laptop)
Stand/Boom - $10-20

That's not a whole lot of money, and it gives you all the basics. Cheaper than that, the most upgrade-friendly option is probably the MXL DRK (~$80). That's an all-in-one studio condenser kit out of the box. Then if or when you're ready, you can add a preamp, a shockmount and stand/boom, etc., though you're paying more in the long run that way. The USB mics are mostly self-contained packages, so they lack a real upgrade path. The USB mics, by the way, have mostly the advantage of portability. You don't save that much compared to a cheap condenser/preamp combo. Honestly, apart from the stand or boom, that doesn't take up much space so long as you practice good cable management. My preamp (a Behringer MIC200) is about the size of a pocketbook. On the other hand, laptops tend to have noisy line-ins, so a USB audio interface might be noticeably better.

The mic Tapewolf suggested is more of a "tide you over until you have a bigger budget" package. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, especially if the PG48 is a good mic. (I've never used one, although I do have experience with its big brother, the SM58.)

I'm not sure what you'd consider a "high-grade" condenser mic. I've got a Behringer B-1 ($100), which is quite serviceable. You've got hours of recordings from myself and Tapewolf if you want to know what that sounds like. Sure, it's a bit better than, say, the MXL 990 or 909, but hardly "I'm gonna throw out my old mic and buy a B-1" better. The next useful step up after that would set you back $200-300 (e.g. R0DE NT-1 or Audio-Technica AT4040). And remember that recording setups are only as good as the weakest link. A $1000 mic won't be that much better than a $100 one if, say, you're getting a lot of noise from your electronics or recording environment. Also... skilled engineers can fiddle to make cheap condensers sound more like expensive condensers. For voiceover work, I'd say a cheap condenser is usually better than a good dynamic.


Another issue to consider if you can't buy these locally: When dealing with entry-level gear, shipping costs may constitute a large chunk of the total price.

Stuff to think about...

[Tapewolf]

My preamp (a Behringer MIC200) is about the size of a pocketbook. On the other hand, laptops tend to have noisy line-ins, so a USB audio interface might be noticeably better.

They also have a problem where the USB bus leaks into the analogue side giving a high-pitched whine to the recording.  There are two other problems - compression/limiting needs to be applied before it hits the A/D converter, not after it's already been destroyed.  While I'm not expecting him to rush out and buy a compressor as part of the first wave, it is something that he should invest in further down the line.
Also, USB is liable to be superseded at some point, which means you'd have to chuck the entire mic instead of just the audio interface.

The mic Tapewolf suggested is more of a "tide you over until you have a bigger budget" package. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, especially if the PG48 is a good mic. (I've never used one, although I do have experience with its big brother, the SM58.)

Yes, I was suggesting it as a 'first try' really, since the QTR version doesn't require a dedicated preamp - the laptop's internal sound will probably give enough gain for it to work.  I've got one here, actually, and it's not bad.

I'm not sure what you'd consider a "high-grade" condenser mic. I've got a Behringer B-1 ($100), which is quite serviceable. You've got hours of recordings from myself and Tapewolf if you want to know what that sounds like. Sure, it's a bit better than, say, the MXL 990 or 909, but hardly "I'm gonna throw out my old mic and buy a B-1" better.

There was a guy on pro.audio.recording who actually most of his U87s and used the proceeds to buy a shedload of Behringer B-1s, but I think he's probably the exception rather than the rule.

Anyway, my basic suggestion was get the MIC100, and then pick a cheap condenser mic, like the B-1, CAD, MXL etc.  The MIC100 will allow him to plug more-or-less any kind of mic into the PC.  Does MIC200 still have the limiter?  I'm not sure...

The bottleneck factor after that is likely to be the onboard sound in the laptop.  In the EeePC it was simply unusable and I had to find an external interface.
(Again the USB bus noise problem can rear its ugly head, but experimenting with different USB interfaces is cheaper than scrapping the entire mic).

[Brunhidden]

the huge rush of people picking at the cordless headsets and whatnot mean i can purchase what was only last year a 40 dollar microphone for five bucks cause office max no longer wants to carry desktop mics that aren't selling.

thank you for making my purchase cheaper

[Tapewolf]

Update:

I'd definitely skip the Samson USB mics.  Take a look at this, and read past the first paragraph.  The rest of it is a lot less rosy:
Samson GM1U review

And the C01U: (search the page for 'noise')
C01U reviews.

[Tezkat]

They also have a problem where the USB bus leaks into the analogue side giving a high-pitched whine to the recording.  There are two other problems - compression/limiting needs to be applied before it hits the A/D converter, not after it's already been destroyed.  While I'm not expecting him to rush out and buy a compressor as part of the first wave, it is something that he should invest in further down the line.
Also, USB is liable to be superseded at some point, which means you'd have to chuck the entire mic instead of just the audio interface.

Yeah... Like I said, the USB mics don't really have an upgrade path. They're a "get a complete condenser setup for $100, kthxbai" sort of thing. The people who have been recommending the Samson on AVA forums are mostly upgrading from Logitech mics and totally blown away by the difference between a cheap condenser and a $20 piece of crap. But, admitedly, that's sort of where James is right now.

I've also heard that some of the USB mics have issues with latency as well as noise. That matters more for singing than VA work, though.

Anyway, my basic suggestion was get the MIC100, and then pick a cheap condenser mic, like the B-1, CAD, MXL etc.  The MIC100 will allow him to plug more-or-less any kind of mic into the PC.  Does MIC200 still have the limiter?  I'm not sure...

It says it does. There's a very small compression effect when you have it on limiter mode. The various modes all have minor compression and/or EQ effects. It won't actually prevent clipping in the kinds of cases in which clipping is likely to be a serious problem.

I'd say compressors aren't all that necessary for VA work, though. Once you get to the condenser mic stage, you really should practice recording techniques to prevent clipping in the first place. Even the pros use them. I remember watching some YouTube stuff of VAs who do ADR for anime demonstrating how they played with distance to control levels. (Before that, I kinda thought the sound engineers took care of that stuff.)

Singing on the other hand... A proper compressor is on my own list of upgrades. My high notes are extremely loud, even when I'm holding back.

The bottleneck factor after that is likely to be the onboard sound in the laptop.  In the EeePC it was simply unusable and I had to find an external interface.

If he is going to use a laptop as his primary recording PC, a fully external audio interface (USB or Firewire) may eventually become necessary anyway. A couple of years ago, when I was setting up my own home studio, the pro audio USB interface market was M-Audio (Fast Track and Mobile Pre) on the low end and Digidesign (Mbox) for the Pro Tools crowd. Those are probably out of his current price range, though. There are a bunch of new players now, and I haven't really been following it recently. And there are a lot of super cheap ones, but I'll assume that they suck.

(Again the USB bus noise problem can rear its ugly head, but experimenting with different USB interfaces is cheaper than scrapping the entire mic).

Sometimes, getting a powered USB hub (i.e. one with its own AC) will eliminate the noise, by the way. They also fix the problem of mics not getting enough phantom power off the USB bus (which is one of the causes of noise in the first place).

[Tapewolf]

I'd say compressors aren't all that necessary for VA work, though. Once you get to the condenser mic stage, you really should practice recording techniques to prevent clipping in the first place. Even the pros use them. I remember watching some YouTube stuff of VAs who do ADR for anime demonstrating how they played with distance to control levels. (Before that, I kinda thought the sound engineers took care of that stuff.)

Yes, there are a lot of gaps in what I'm doing.  I could improve my technique a lot, but on the other hand, there are certain kinds of performances where holding back isn't an option and I don't actually have much room in my recording space, so distance isn't really something I can play with.

Sometimes, getting a powered USB hub (i.e. one with its own AC) will eliminate the noise, by the way. They also fix the problem of mics not getting enough phantom power off the USB bus (which is one of the causes of noise in the first place).

That's an interesting suggestion for my UA25.  The interface I used needed all the USB bandwidth just to work, so I never thought of that.  Now I'm using it as an SPDIF converter, that might be worth trying.  I've been meaning to break the power and ground lines anyway so that I can insert some filter caps, but that would be easier.

[James StarRunner]

Wow... A lot of mixed reviews for some of those mics. No doubt that even the crappiest of these is still leaps and bounds better than what I have right now. Still, it seems like a waste to get a mic that's kind of in-between if I'm going to upgrade it before it's through.

Hmm... Well, since I've got to wait a bit anyways before I buy anything maybe I can auction off those drawings I said I would sell and see what I can do then. If I don't have enough money by then to get a good mic and preamp, I still have these cheaper ones you guys have suggested.

*edit* Well, strangely I got to talk to voice acting talents Debbie Munro, James Alburger, and Penny Abshire on the phone today and worked out a killer deal for a MXL 990. Apparently Debbie recommends that mic to all her students and James actually prefers to use his own MXL 990 than his $3000 mic in many cases. O_o

Oh, and Debbie's willing to give me discounted lessons too. :o

[Tapewolf]

Well, strangely I got to talk to voice acting talents Debbie Munro, James Alburger, and Penny Abshire on the phone today and worked out a killer deal for a MXL 990. Apparently Debbie recommends that mic to all her students and James actually prefers to use his own MXL 990 than his $3000 mic in many cases. O_o

It looks OK.  Reviews are a little mixed, apparently it is fragile, even for a condenser and manufacturing is somewhat inconsistent.

That reminds me - condenser mics can be somewhat delicate.  Use a wind-shield - blowing directly into them can break it.

Anyway, good luck with it - I look forward to getting some test recordings.
The only snag being that you'll probably have to re-record 'Church' to keep the sound consistent

[Tezkat]

*edit* Well, strangely I got to talk to voice acting talents Debbie Munro, James Alburger, and Penny Abshire on the phone today and worked out a killer deal for a MXL 990. Apparently Debbie recommends that mic to all her students and James actually prefers to use his own MXL 990 than his $3000 mic in many cases. O_o

Oh, and Debbie's willing to give me discounted lessons too. :o

That's a pretty good endorsement. I bought their book when I was starting out.

How did you get in touch with these guys, anyway? Are you taking VA lessons by phone?

[James StarRunner]

I thought I was just calling the support line for Shanti Studios when Debbie picked up. We talked about a few options for lessons and suggested I talk to the guys at voiceacting.com directly about the microphone she suggested and tell them she sent me as her student to get a deal and have the mic shipped to Canada. Again, I thought I was just going to talk to a support tech person, but instead talked to James and Penny directly. 

The option for VA lessons by phone did come up, but Debbie thought that I should go for the CD-Rom Virtual Workshop first since I still get an hour with her for about the same fee (or at least it would be about the same fee now since she hacked the price down for me). I'll likely be getting James and Penny's book in the near future too.

And for professionals, they seemed really excited about me when they learned that I already did some amateur voice acting and treated me like one of their peers. 

But ya, didn't expect to talk to a few pro VA's yesterday. O_o

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Heh. Nice to see they're still friendly and all on a support line.

... should I admit I have -no- idea WTF they all are? ;-]

[James StarRunner]

That's the thing though, they weren't support lines. At least I know the 2nd one wasn't anyways...

Edit> Ok... Looked at the numbers again. Neither one was actually their support lines. I bypassed both of them. XD

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

At least it wasn't intentional.

And they were nice about it, which is cool.