The Clockwork Mansion

It's much more fun when the verbal sparring comes from both sides.  Aniz seems to enjoy twisting the knife.

Edit: Also, a few years is probably not enough for May to live comfortably on.

Yea I know what you mean. If he's just gonna leave May traumatized like this she might end up offing herself or something.  :<

Well, he's still not as big a di@k as Superman, but he's gettin close. Tsk tsk.

Quote
Before Cid came around an evening with you was pretty cheap...
or so the town would say...

Oh.
That.
Is.
COLD. :(

Oh peachy..I give you this and that speach

Ass...Hole!

Ah, that's comforting.  Apparently, he wasn't planning on killing her, then.

Oh shoot, did you see May's eyes in the last panel?  I think Aniz may not get to take Abel anywhere!

Quote from: Manawolf on May 18, 2007, 01:19:11 AM
Ass...Hole!

yeah, no kidding.

MAN, I cannot think of any words in the English language to describe the level of assholery that Aniz has raised/lowered himself to...

Quote
There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men... for this ASSHOLERY!!

Excuse for above quote: I'm sleep-deprived  :P

Quote from: Fuyudenki on May 18, 2007, 01:22:26 AM
Oh shoot, did you see May's eyes in the last panel?  I think Aniz may not get to take Abel anywhere!

Actually, I assume that is a reaction to what Aniz says to her in the last two speech bubbles.
But yeah, if Aniz DOES get Abel somehow, I don't think May would be able to handle the shock of...today's events, and commits suicide. Cuz, I mean, DAMN this is one hell of a bad day...

Ah yeah, hell hath no fury like that of a woman scorned.  :mwaha

Ouch is right. Aniz is so weird... and that must have been a pretty good shot to May for her nose to still be bleeding so much.

Guess we can just hope it all turns out to be some big ploy between May and Aniz, but something tells me that's probably not the case.

And this was some bizzaro week of exposition.

Oo, BURN.

Yyyyyyyyeah Aniz is a bastard.  But honestly I'm only rating him on ~evil~ at somewhere between Kria and Jyrras' mom.  Jerkdom actually ~greater~ than Abel/Devin levels, though.

I think at least with Hannya there I think May's got a fighting chance of getting herself back together.  Romantically however yeah she's pretty much shot I'd say.  Aniz is a jerk.

Notice how Abel specified he was an ~honest~ jerk....

Then again its one those eat and run moments...Sure make movents of a circle around May...Yeah..kill my dad,f*#k my mom,get alot money and leave...PEACHY AINT IT??

Quote from: Xeksue on May 18, 2007, 01:25:32 AM
Ah yeah, hell hath no fury like that of a woman scorned.  :mwaha

Unless said woman's massive emotional upheaval renders her unable to express any rage, although she did just barely come close at the "Get out." line. But then she collapsed right back to the delusion that Cid is still alive...


Yes, Aniz COULD be lying, but I seriously doubt that.

Quote from: Zedd on May 18, 2007, 01:31:38 AM
Then again its one those eat and run moments...Sure make movents of a circle around May...Yeah..kill my dad,f*#k my mom,get alot money and leave...PEACHY AINT IT??

I know, that is just so wrong on so many levels...

I just thought I'd point out that Aniz in panel 4 is beautifully rendered.  Catching the hair and tail in mid-fall is adorable.

Admiring that panel, I did notice that Abel's wing is there, but Abel is not.  Has Abel turned around?  Is he bending over (perhaps nausea has gotten to him)?

May's probably going to try and kill Aniz at this point.

I fully expect Aniz to get a steaming pile of very sharp wife to the face. It hurts like the fiery weasels of the damned and they DONT LET GO.

QuoteLove is a perky elf dancing a merry little jig, and then suddenly he turns on you with a miniature machine gun.

well we have seen what happens when someone tries to bring up that part about her past. T hey usually end up with a severe concussion and missing wit.  >:3

Quote from: superluser on May 18, 2007, 01:57:36 AM
... I did notice that Abel's wing is there, but Abel is not.  Has Abel turned around?  Is he bending over (perhaps nausea has gotten to him)?

Directional Vomiting!  The best way to show someone you REALLY hate them!

Quote from: superluser on May 18, 2007, 01:57:36 AM
I just thought I'd point out that Aniz in panel 4 is beautifully rendered.  Catching the hair and tail in mid-fall is adorable.

You beat me to saying it. I didn't think Aniz was cute up until that panel. His hair and tail are so long and pretty D=

      If May acts fast, she may thwart Aniz with legalities for divorce, thus getting a better payout. Aniz doesn't want to be stuck around that dump of a house. Aniz pays, he is legally free and single, no ties. If Aniz tries to skip town, May sends in a real adventurer fit for this type of job. ( bad debt collector )

"better" payout? How? divorce doesn't make things materialize out of thin air. Just what the hell are you saying? I can't make any sense of it...

Quote from: kaskar on May 18, 2007, 02:25:44 AM

      If May acts fast, she may thwart Aniz with legal for divorce, thus getting a better payout. Aniz doesn't want to be stuck around that dump of a house. Aniz pays, he is legally free and single, no ties. If Aniz tries to skip town, May sends in a real adventurer fit for this type of job. ( bad debt collector )

That is, if you want to assume Furre works with the same legal system as we do.

Quote from: Zina on May 18, 2007, 02:35:59 AM

Quote from: kaskar on May 18, 2007, 02:25:44 AM
      If May acts fast, she may thwart Aniz with legal for divorce, thus getting a better payout. Aniz doesn't want to be stuck around that dump of a house. Aniz pays, he is legally free and single, no ties. If Aniz tries to skip town, May sends in a real adventurer fit for this type of job. ( bad debt collector )

That is, if you want to assume Furre works with the same legal system as we do.

    The laws for monetry gain, decendancy, and many more laws like 'no parking between ...' seem to have held hold so far. Would the divorce laws be too dissimilar ? She would not do it for just a bit of money. She would do it for a shit load of money now, just to twist that knife between Aniz's ribs ...

They could be, you never know. *shrug*
Besides, the law system in general seems to be very different. Creature/Being conflicts seem to be rather sticky situations, and handled differently. That's the whole reason adventurers were employed in the first place.

Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on May 18, 2007, 02:29:10 AM
"better" payout? How? divorce doesn't make things materialize out of thin air. Just what the hell are you saying? I can't make any sense of it...

Um, wasn't it said that 'cubi could create gold out of thin air(or atleast easily)? If that is so, Aniz can create as much money as he wants for May, though it doesn't seem like he would want to.

Im sure I saw a comic to that effect...

-Robbie

      Robbie, that comment came from Abel in the 'gratitous economic tutorial' that Abel gave Jy-Jy at the mall ...

Is Aniz saying May was a whore?

Just want to make sure.

Man Aniz is really becoming an ass a few strips back he was just anoying >.>

Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on May 18, 2007, 02:07:25 AM
May's probably going to try and kill Aniz at this point.

<nod> She's certainly got what seems to be an about-to-go-for-the-throat* look in her eyes.

* Or other within-reach part of a certain Cubi's anatomy...

I expect in a few more pages..Fists will fly most likey

      Aniz so far is staying almost decent as an asshole Incubus so far. Remember how Hennya ( Haw ) described how Abel looked. She generalised too much in saying an Incubus likes to eat babies, steal dreams and stuff, have little wings on thier head, and are so ugly they need to steal victims faces to blend in.

      But I keep on wondering if Aniz is about to turn into a falsetto if Kria finds out ...

      ( Future note: Will an Incubi tutor be sent to the house to tutor Abel in primary Incubi skills.  S.A.I.A would be not an  option, since of the recent spat, Abel would not learn there out of stubborness. His tutoring for the moment( Is this where Destina comes in? ) would have to be at home with a Cubi tutor that is not Aniz ... )

I am not sure if Anitz implies that May was a whore, he could also mean that she was a slut.

Personally, I am pretty disgusted at anybody who brings up these two words for any reason. Anitz didn't use those words but clearly meant them.
Yes, Amber succeeded remarkably at establishing him as the pinnacle of asshole-dom.

There's just one thing I wonder at this point: Does Anitz intend to take Abel with him? His behaviour and that bank account doesn't tell so far.

PS: I am not sure how much the use of the a-word is discouraged in a PG-forum, but I am very sure every single one who reads Abel's story is having that exact word in his/her head, so nobody would be saying anything that everybody wasn't thinking.

PPS: I don't think fists are going to fly. Unless in a hopeless, helpless kind of way. Unless maybe from Kria, in a clawing, gutting kind of way. Unless Kria was with Anitz to begin with, which I very strongly doubt. (from her age and 'had tea with his mom' comment

Quote from: Dard on May 18, 2007, 04:59:10 AM
I am not sure if Anitz implies that May was a whore, he could also mean that she was a slut.

Aniz. Just in case you missed it.

Quote from: Dard on May 18, 2007, 04:59:10 AM
PS: I am not sure how much the use of the a-word is discouraged in a PG-forum, but I am very sure every single one who reads Abel's story is having that exact word in his/her head, so nobody would be saying anything that everybody wasn't thinking.

Ah... We're pretty relaxed about it being used here and there. It's accepted that Abel's Story is rate 14 (by Fa-Teen, on the opening page, if you look) so AS threads then would be expected to be slightly higher rated than the average forum thread.

On the other hand, we -will- step in if someone starts going overboard with language. Be sensible, and we'll never have to say a word.


That's reasonable enough, isn't it? I know -I- think so...

oh for frank's sake, you gosh darn mods are such bar stewards!  :<

yup he a--hole aright what will be next maybe may is a demon and she just hiding her wing like kria with the neckless ? if and only if iam right that were able got the bat like wings able and Anitz wing look birds wing ( just saiding )

I suppose that the final panel indicates that May is "Snapping" (http://missmab.com/Comics/Abel_14.php (http://missmab.com/Comics/Abel_14.php))

Hopefully her rage won't cause her to "snap" Aniz's neck.  :P

This was an excellent comic, for sure. I just can't help but love Aniz for all the mayhem he sews.

Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on May 18, 2007, 06:15:14 AM
oh for frank's sake, you gosh darn mods are such bar stewards!  :<

It's what it says on the tin, no? Part of the job description... :-]

This starts to remind me of the old "wounded animal" warnings. Maybe "cid" should better be careful

Quote from: Zina on May 18, 2007, 02:35:59 AMThat is, if you want to assume Furre works with the same legal system as we do.

Well, I'd assume that there are similar laws regarding things like joint accounts, meaning that there should be similar laws regarding the disposition of those assets in the case of separation, legal or otherwise.

If not, then Aniz just became an even cooler jerk.  What happens when May goes to the bank?

May: I'm here to make a withdrawal from our joint account.
Teller: OK.  Cid usually makes those withdrawals, doesn't he?
May: Yeah, well, he turned out to be an incubus and just before he walked out--
Teller: Oh!  He's a creature?  I'm sorry.  Beings can't withdraw from creature accounts.  I'll just put this account on hold until he comes back.

EDIT: Actually, what could she gain from a divorce?  He claims to be giving her a bunch of money, and Abel's long since an adult.

Quote from: SpottedKitty on May 18, 2007, 03:47:03 AM* Or other within-reach part of a certain Cubi's anatomy...

Quote from: kaskar on May 18, 2007, 04:18:09 AMBut I keep on wondering if Aniz is about to turn into a falsetto if Kria finds out ...

I think they can regrow them.

Ironically, the links this week are probably one of the funniest jokes ever.

Seriously. XD

"links" ?

If, perchance, you mean the Nice links, they're on a random include basis - they change every time you view them, I think.

The xepher.net link, OTOH....

Aniz added the comment ** or so the town would say **.  Perhaps he isn't saying what May was, but what the town believed or whispered that May was.  He also said that the bank account was ** full of pretty money **, so it might actually contain enough to keep it in comfort for a lifetime.  The title for episode 652 was  ** When diamonds are easier to make than doughnuts ** and it said that Cubi find it easy to make gold.  Why wouldn't he leave a fortune if it's so easy, if for no other reason than to gain favor with Abel.

By the way, if she was born in Zinvth, it would also help explain why the town whispered things about her.  She seems quite comfortable in the city.

How about the deal between Dan and Fa'Lina in episode 592 where Dan spends a month a year at SAIA and doesn't have to enroll full-time until he wants to, even if it takes a few hundred years.  Perhaps there was a precedent a few hundred years before.  There is also Fa'Lina's line in Episode 494: ** I know.  It's better that he resents me for not giving him a choice than resenting himself for a choice he does make. **

Judging by the conversations with Destania, Fa'Lina, and Abel, sarcasm and manipulation would seem to be a ** very ** strong Cubi trait.

Quote from: Naldru on May 18, 2007, 08:23:41 AMAniz added the comment ** or so the town would say **.  Perhaps he isn't saying what May was, but what the town believed or whispered that May was.

So? That still makes him almost as bad as the town folk. He had no reason to mention it except to twist the knife in her a little more.

Quote from: Naldru on May 18, 2007, 08:23:41 AMHe also said that the bank account was ** full of pretty money **, so it might actually contain enough to keep it in comfort for a lifetime.

"A few years" doesn't sound like "a lifetime" at all. Sure, he needn't have done that. It's probably the only redeeming act he has done since his dramatic entrance. But less because of the money and more because this means that he does not intend to kill May after all.

Quote from: Naldru on May 18, 2007, 08:23:41 AMThe title for episode 652 was  ** When diamonds are easier to make than doughnuts ** and it said that Cubi find it easy to make gold.

Yup, and in such a world gold or diamonds wouldn't be money. The whole purpose of precious things is that they are difficult to get.
Aniz must have gotten that money from elsewhere. We don't know how old he is and what he did for a living before killing Cid, but I guess the money is that old and that he didn't come by that by simply conjuring it.

Quote from: Naldru on May 18, 2007, 08:23:41 AMBy the way, if she was born in Zinvth, it would also help explain why the town whispered things about her.  She seems quite comfortable in the city.

When was it hinted that May was born in Zinvth? I thought the only reason why she moved there was because this was the least likely place that a child with wings would be talked about.

Quote from: Naldru on May 18, 2007, 08:23:41 AMJudging by the conversations with Destania, Fa'Lina, and Abel, sarcasm and manipulation would seem to be a ** very ** strong Cubi trait.

What Aniz did here is much more than simple sarcasm or manipulation.
At least IMO.

*Charline grins*  Ah yeah!  That's MY kind of evil!  Keep hitting while they're down!  Drive them to the utmost of misery while administering a dose of sarcastic pseudo-empathy.  I wonder if Aniz and I are related.   Now, let's see if he gives the coupe de gras.  I'm not saying what I think that will be, because I don't want to spoil the surprise if he does!   >:3

The possibility that May was born in Zinvth was my own idea.  She was the one who suggested going there, she appeared to be knowledgable about the city, and she appears comfortable about living there.  There appear to be normal beings in the city based on who was in the class with Abel.  If May had moved to the seaport before meeting Cid/Aniz and had been born in Zinvth, it would also explain some of the whiserings about her past.  (People tend to come up with nastier gossip about outsiders, especially those from ** that kind of town **.)  It has been my experience that parents are often anxious about uprooting their family, but that they are less anxious if they move to a place where they lived before.  I may be reading too much into it.  (As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a good smoke.)

It has also been my experience that basically good people have a much easier time pretending to be nasty than nasty people trying to act good.  However, being able to read surface thoughts would make acting much easier.

I would say that Aniz seems to be well within the range of jerkdom normally experienced by marriage counselors.

Quote from: Fuyudenki on May 18, 2007, 01:22:26 AM
Ah, that's comforting.  Apparently, he wasn't planning on killing her, then.

He hasn't said anything about Hennya.
Another question is whether Aniz knows that Kria is liable to return for her morphing amulet.  I don't think he does, and the theory that Kria is waiting outside is probably toast by now.

Has anyone who's better at decoding Bizarro-Amber's intent figured out if we're getting another update tomorrow or whether it's going to be the mainline updating then?

Quote from: Tycoon on May 18, 2007, 06:29:43 AM
I suppose that the final panel indicates that May is "Snapping"

I think I agree with you on that...but we'll just wait and see about that.

Oh, btw Amber...Excellent comic.

Quote from: Tapewolf on May 18, 2007, 12:48:08 PM
Has anyone who's better at decoding Bizarro-Amber's intent figured out if we're getting another update tomorrow or whether it's going to be the mainline updating then?

Quote from: Bizarro Amber
Bizarro Amber update with another am normal update. Tomorrow am Abel Story update! Me am working easy to bring you less update! For Bizarro Amber worstest author ever. Maybe if me am really bad, Fluffy will let Bizarro update another week.

Uh. Yes, she updated Abel's Story today. Tomorrow, she'll update the main story. She's working hard to bring you more updates. Bizarro Amber best author ever[1]. Maybe if she's really good, we'll get this next week as well.

[1] Well, I don't see any of -us- arguing, here, so... :-]

Personally, I want to see what happens when Fluffy gets Amber with the tazer (in the donations pic). I think chibi Amber-with-hair-on-end would be downright cute, don't you? :-]

I like the way that May looks so *old* in the first couple panels she's in. I mean, before she was graying, but still all strong and happy and all, but now she just looks like she's about to curl up and die.

After he calls her a slut, though... yeah. That made her snap even when she thought he was really Cid.

Although, really... he *is* really Cid. He's the only Cid Abel ever knew, and she's probably spent at least ten times as long with him as she did with the real Cid. "Ah, but that was only ACTING!" ... yeah, whatever. People put on an act for their relatives all the time.

Everyone has a mask, you mean?

Yeah. "You never let your lover see the stranger deep inside..." Billy Joel nailed it with that one.

Oh, Aniz, you wonderful bastard.

You know something though? Aniz's expression in the final panel looks truly benevolent and caring.

Ah, man. Can't add anything that hasn't been added already. I still feel so bad for May. She needs a nice cup of tea and a lie down.

Quote from: rabid_fox on May 18, 2007, 02:36:34 PM
You know something though? Aniz's expression in the final panel looks truly benevolent and caring.

I thought that too.  But I'm not sure if it's real, or whether it's because he's got a cynical smile that we can't see because of the editing.

It's probably fake. Although it would be hilarious if May and Aniz suddenly just embraced each other and started making out infront of Abel and Hennya. Like an old soap opera or something.

Quote from: kaskar on May 18, 2007, 02:25:44 AM
      If May acts fast, she may thwart Aniz with legalities for divorce,.... (snip)

May does not have a case.  She was married to Cid, not Aniz.  Unless Aniz killed Cid before the marriage, and it was Aniz that married her.  Even then, I don't think a Demon city will take action against a creature for what he did to a being.  Her only recourse is to kill Aniz or hire someone to kill him.  If Aniz could not keep himself alive, then he deserved it.

With regards,
Ted

Quote from: Xeksue on May 18, 2007, 03:29:06 PM
It's probably fake. Although it would be hilarious if May and Aniz suddenly just embraced each other and started making out infront of Abel and Hennya. Like an old soap opera or something.

But he looks so sweet. Like the young, cool uncle you always wished you'd had.

Of course May is really fuming at the moment, and being an incubus, I'm sure Aniz is well aware of what he's doing to her.  The question is, is he just pushing her buttons because he wants to humiliate her?  Maybe he's trying to get her to make a move on him. 

He's already shown he doesn't have a problem smacking her around, and that was for no reason whatsoever  If May actually tries to hurt him, and he feels like defending himself, how badly would he hurt her?  Would he do some permanent damage to her (or worse)? Or would he threaten to, unless Abel cooperates with him?  This is a bad situation that could go a dozen directions.  (Great use of tension and conflict Amber, and talk about suspense - something severe is going to happen.)

Quote from: Rafe on May 18, 2007, 04:35:51 PM
This is a bad situation that could go a dozen directions.

Yeah, a dozen bad directions.
The options for good endings are very scarce.

My only two guesses why Aniz is pushing May even further:
1. He enjoys it being a sadist.
2. He tries to provoke May to attack and then show her just how powerless she is and how futile it would be for her to try anything against him later.

I can see a line in "I punched May" t-shirts, mind you.

Quote from: Rafe on May 18, 2007, 04:35:51 PM
Of course May is really fuming at the moment, and being an incubus, I'm sure Aniz is well aware of what he's doing to her.

Something occurred to me earlier today: does Aniz know what May's thinking right now? He seems to have suppressed or avoided using most of his Cubi abilities, except maybe the feeding-on-emotions part, for the entire time of his masquerade (never letting his wings or clan marking be seen, never "cheating" and having two good eyes, etc.) — so, could Aniz be suppressing his thought-reading ability?

If he leaves it "turned on", he risks reacting to what people think but don't say. Not unexpected in a Cubi, but in someone pretending to be a Being, people will notice and get suspicious eventually. I think he has suppressed it, just like he has everything else.

Which means May, or Abel, or even Hennya  :erk might be able to take him by surprise...

Quote from: rabid_fox on May 18, 2007, 04:34:37 PM
But he looks so sweet. Like the young, cool uncle you always wished you'd had.

Oh I have a young cool uncle. His exploits are legend in my family.  ;)

I bear the blade he once used in his displays of mastery on sea and air. This year I shall carry on the legend, for after this year, there shall be no more.  :<

Quote from: rabid_fox on May 18, 2007, 05:31:44 PM

I can see a line in "I punched May" t-shirts, mind you.

(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5789/ipunchedmayuw8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Couldn't resist.

(Hi there.)

I beleive that May was a protitute, because of Strip 82. She says she did selfish things when she was a teenager. I'm imagining that the selfishness was taking the money.

And this has probaly been said on a past forum, but I'm waiting for Edward Ti'Fiona to break in and kill Aniz. This maybe why Abel "cares for [Dan's] welfare" in comic (527), because his father was the hero who slayed Aniz....

Quote from: Lucheek on May 18, 2007, 06:44:21 PM
And this has probaly been said on a past forum, but I'm waiting for Edward Ti'Fiona to break in and kill Aniz. This maybe why Abel "cares for [Dan's] welfare" in comic (527), because his father was the hero who slayed Aniz....

I'm pretty sure Amber said that Abel and Edward haven't actually met.  I'm not sure I want to believe that Edward is a Creature either :B

Quote from: Paul on May 18, 2007, 06:43:43 PM

Quote from: rabid_fox on May 18, 2007, 05:31:44 PM

I can see a line in "I punched May" t-shirts, mind you.

(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5789/ipunchedmayuw8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Couldn't resist.

(Hi there.)

I desperately want that T-shirt.

This just gets better! I'm almost getting impatient for the next comic to post!  :eager

Quote from: Nerikull on May 18, 2007, 07:51:25 PM
This just gets better! I'm almost getting impatient for the next comic to post!  :eager

Ehem... I know this is a bit redundant but... Za?

Also, I think that Aniz went just a liiittle bit past the line with that last comment. Now, sure, he may be feeding off their emotions like crazy, but why does he have to take it all in such a huge damn gulp?

Mabye he suffers from emotional feeding bulimia?  :B

Aniz will be killed by May after that comment as I see it how the death scene will go as followed.

1. May grabs Aniz by the neck and strangle him till he is blue or the neck snaps.

2. May gets a knife while Aniz back is turned and stabbed him repeatedly like 20 or 30 times blood all over the place and flesh galore.

3. May get a .22 put it behind Aniz ear and pull the trigger and the rest you know put the body in a 72 buick and park it under the Pulaski Skyway in NJ.

Okay I'm done bye now.

This is why I hate you.

Okay Okay   Now for something Really WILD, but  

SO far we have had "only" Aniz's Word, That he killed Cid....

YES, he tricked May into thinking that he was CID some 25 years ago, so he could beget Abel...   But Why kill Cid if you do not have to, he could try again with someone's innocent wives, as Cid raises your son for you.  That way the chances that your clan mark will be seen by May are smaller.  You get to have fun with other Being females, and maybe get another cubi child.

So, Aniz the jerk, could be lying to cause the most hurt and pain to May and everyone.  Just like his reference to her wild past, that is meant just to twist her pain a little more.   But Aniz has gone too far with that remark, May has fought too many people over that part of her life, to let that go unchallenged.. She will come out swinging after this.... She may died, but she will died trying to protect her son and her honor.  

And Cid could come home any minute.

Quote from: Stygian on May 18, 2007, 08:22:52 PM
Ehem... I know this is a bit redundant but... Za?

Also, I think that Aniz went just a liiittle bit past the line with that last comment. Now, sure, he may be feeding off their emotions like crazy, but why does he have to take it all in such a huge damn gulp?

Well, he can't very well feed off of May after this since he did say he was going to leave and it would entirely daft to try to trick the same person twice, so why not?

QuoteYES, he tricked May into thinking that he was CID some 25 years ago, so he could beget Abel... But why kill Cid if you do not have to, he could try again someone other innocent wives, as Cid raises your son for you?

There's a problem with that. Having someone else raise your son will make that person a better parent than you are. If Aniz did that, he will fail in his attempt to use Abel to his own needs. (EDIT: Not counting what had recently happened. That is outside of the argument.)

Since Aniz was the kind, caring Cid all throughout Abel's life, it would make it hard for Abel to denounce his father, no matter how much an asshole he is.

Quote from: terrycloth on May 18, 2007, 01:43:22 PM

Although, really... he *is* really Cid. He's the only Cid Abel ever knew, and she's probably spent at least ten times as long with him as she did with the real Cid. "Ah, but that was only ACTING!" ... yeah, whatever. People put on an act for their relatives all the time.

We have no proof that May ever knew the *real* Cid.  Aniz claimed he killed him, and he took his place.  Killing an assuming the identity of a young and elgible bachelor adventurer would go a long way if Aniz was looking for ideal childbearers.

I still think back to Devin's story.  How his father just looked at him once and then walked out.  I'm still convinced that was Aniz.  He was probably in the business of assuming the identity of several adventurers at once, capitalizing on the fact that an active adventurer can be away from his family for months at a time.  Plenty of time to have plenty of "other lives", other tries to roll the cosmic dice to try get the result he wants: a cubi offspring.  What a damn yiffy thing he is!

Devin got a dice roll which instantly indicated he was not an incubus.  Abel got the dice roll indicating he had the potential, which is why Aniz waited to this day, to see if he was truely an incubus, or just a being with wings.

As I said, baby cubi must not be detectable as anything other then altered beings.  Quite a survival feature in what is a dangerous world.

What about the statement from Devin's mother that she killed the previous infants?  That doesn't sound very promising for getting Cubi offspring.  Aniz may be in the unpleasant category, but Devin's father sounds more like the neurotic/psychotic type who should be institutionalized.  The one possible explanation that comes to mind (not that it is a justification) is that Devin's father knew he was sterile or impotent, and therefore knew the kid wasn't his.

And now for something completely different.  Suppose Aniz is on the run from some very nasty, very powerful people.  Now that Abel is revealed as a Cubi, he has to go on the run again.  He doesn't want May used as a hostage, and this way anyone reading her mind would be less likely to assume that Aniz would return for her.

One more thing.  In the Hitchcock movie Rear Window, there is a scene where views of Jimmy Stewart's face are intercut with the view through the telescope.  If all you see is Jimmy Stewart's face, he appears to have the same look each time.  If you add the view through the telescope, people tended to assign different emotions to Jimmy Stewart's character each time.  Picture Jimmy Stewart, Robin Williams, or Jim Carrey  reading Aniz's lines.  Would it sound the same?  Is what you believe Aniz to be infuencing your opinion of his actions.

I once heard an agnostic defined as a person who knows he doesn't know, but also knows that you don't know either.  With regard to Aniz, I think I'm an agnostic.

By the way, I believe in being nice to people even if I think they are being nasty.  I may be wrong, in which case they don't deserve the nastiness.  And I have found that nothing drives a truly nasty person up the wall as much as being nice to them, and in that case they deserve it.

Quote from: Ted Schiller on May 18, 2007, 04:33:22 PMMay does not have a case.  She was married to Cid, not Aniz.

They might be considered married by common law, if they've lived together for long enough.  Again, though, there really isn't anything that May could get out of divorce proceeedings--she can't get custody of Abel, since he's an adult, and she probably can't get much more money.

Domestic violence laws, however, might be stringent enough to get Aniz.

Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on May 18, 2007, 09:17:28 PMSO far we have had "only" Aniz's Word, That he killed Cid....

YES, he tricked May into thinking that he was CID some 25 years ago, so he could beget Abel...   But Why kill Cid if you do not have to, he could try again someone other innocent wives, as Cid raises your son for you.  That way the chances that your clan mark will be seen by May are smaller.  You get to have fun with other Being females, and maybe another cubi child.

Yes, this is very possible.

Quote from: Ink on May 18, 2007, 09:43:17 PMThere's a problem with that. Having someone else raise your son will make that person a better parent than you are. If Aniz did that, he will fail in his attempt to use Abel to his own needs.

I was going to respond in prose format, but I think a list is clearer.  Unfortunately, it makes me look like an *ss.  Please pretend that the following is in prose.

1.) He doesn't seem to care about parenting.  He wants someone to carry on his clan, and I suspect any parenting from here on out will be about as warm as William Munny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unforgiven).

2.) Aniz doesn't actually need to have replaced Cid all those years ago--he just needs to claim that he did for what you're suggesting to work.  Better still--if Aniz isn't that good of a parent, having Cid do all the work may make it easier for Abel to bind to Aniz.

3.) Judging from all the personal accounts of abuse that I see in the media, it's fairly common for children not to forgive an abusive parent, regardless of how nice s/he might have been to the child.  Common enough not to be worth the risk.

4.) It is entirely possible the Aniz has centuries of parenting experience already, from past children.

Quote from: Shadowcatcher on May 18, 2007, 09:53:41 PMAbel got the dice roll indicating he had the potential, which is why Aniz waited to this day, to see if he was truely an incubus, or just a being with wings.

It should have been obvious that Abel was an incubus when he got his clan marking.  I don't think that anything other than `cubi get those (though I have been wrong in the past).

Quote from: Naldru on May 19, 2007, 12:13:49 AMAnd now for something completely different.  Suppose Aniz is on the run from some very nasty, very powerful people.  Now that Abel is revealed as a Cubi, he has to go on the run again.  He doesn't want May used as a hostage, and this way anyone reading her mind would be less likely to assume that Aniz would return for her.

I like, I like.  You just pushed my probability assessment of a bunch of other theories down.

Quote from: Naldru on May 19, 2007, 12:13:49 AM
Suppose Aniz is on the run from some very nasty, very powerful people.  Now that Abel is revealed as a Cubi, he has to go on the run again.  He doesn't want May used as a hostage, and this way anyone reading her mind would be less likely to assume that Aniz would return for her.

Odds are that if they're ruthless enough to take hostages, they're ruthless enough to get rid of useless hostages as well as anyone or anything related to Aniz.  Essentially causing this plan to backfire rather badly.

Of course Aniz simply might not have thought about that.

Quote from: Valynth on May 19, 2007, 12:34:34 AMOdds are that if they're ruthless enough to take hostages, they're ruthless enough to get rid of useless hostages as well as anyone or anything related to Aniz.  Essentially causing this plan to backfire rather badly.

Well, the issue is whether May tries to figure out where Aniz is going.  If Aniz leaves and says, ``Don't worry, honey, I still love you,'' May might be tempted to figure out more about him, where he went off to, what drove him to do what he did, &c.  If May is left with the impression that he's a flip, uncaring jerk, then she might simply tell the local adventurers' guild and have done with it.

Without her following him around, she's less likely to have information that potential adversaries can use.

I think his claim to have killed the real Cid is more cause for research into to him than simply claiming that the 'real Cid' was actually a disguised 'cubi because he feared the reaction of others and wanted May to like him *yada yada, sap sap*

Then 'Cid' could explain that he needed to take Abel to be trained as a 'Cubi, because there were people after him and that May should tell no one else.  That way Aniz never uses his name and therefore this seems to be an unrelated issue to the chasing of Aniz to begin with.

      So is this where May gets so angry she literely stakes Aniz out, like Mab did with Abbie . Aniz, as an adventurer, should have a spare sword, dagger, or spear lying around handy for May to do the deed. ( note: Is there an abandoned wive's pension ? ) May could then study to earn her morningstar as an adventurer, ( if she wished ), just to keep the land free from scum like the jerk,  Aniz. Of course there is scum like Aniz that are not creatures,  and so Aniz is giving the group, ( creatures ), a bad name ...

Quote from: Naldru on May 19, 2007, 12:13:49 AM
The one possible explanation that comes to mind (not that it is a justification) is that Devin's father knew he was sterile or impotent, and therefore knew the kid wasn't his.

Erm. Why wait for the birth, in that case?

Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 19, 2007, 05:13:47 AM

Quote from: Naldru on May 19, 2007, 12:13:49 AM
The one possible explanation that comes to mind (not that it is a justification) is that Devin's father knew he was sterile or impotent, and therefore knew the kid wasn't his.

Erm. Why wait for the birth, in that case?

Amber has said that there is no Half Cubi, so if one of your parents is an incubus and you were born with wings, then chances are that you are a sucubus or incubus.  Aniz is most likely the Father of Devin, and he could have been playing the field all over town, being this one's secret lover or husband, when Cid was home, or when Replaced Cid should have been adventuring, he was morphing into May's neighbors, and playing with their wives.

  Aniz has just been waiting on Abel's  second wings to come in before he reveiled himself..  Was he waiting in the shadows all these years or playing at being Cid?, now that is the question.

:mowcookie
PBH

I just had a weird vision based on the old Japanese movie Rashomon.  (In this movie, different witnesses describe a crime from their point of view, with each telling radically different stories.)  Abel's story would be followed by May's story, which would be followed by Aniz's story, which would be followed by Devin's story, which would be followed by Amber's complete collapse from mental and physical exhaustion.

May's story would start with her wild and selfish days before she met Cid/Aniz.  Please note:  the following is completely made up from whole cloth from my own imagination and any resemblance to Amber's imagination or plans would be completely coincidental.  Repeat, I'm making it up.  Perhaps May was running with a gang that was captured by Aniz acting as Cid.  Cid liked what he saw in May and wooed her in a manner reminiscent of Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew.  As I said, I totally fabricated this scenario on my own.  However, wouldn't it fit the story as well as some of the other conjectures about May's past?

Let's just stick to the facts....Amber has other stories to write

PBH

*twitch twitch*  Ok, I was batting for you, Aniz, and now you're starting to make me go along with the "Kill Aniz!" crowd, which I don't like.  I have delusions that everyone has some good in them, and if there is anything that makes me angry, it's getting my delusions, *starts to grow and turn green* spoiled!
*becomes the Hulk*  Me smash stupid cubi!

I wasn't implying that Amber would write the stories.  You'll notice that scenario ended with Amber's collapse, which would mean no more DMFA.  What would I read?  The thought of the withdrawal pains feels me with dread.

My point with the potential scenario for May's background is that there are internally consistent back stories other than a few of the ones that have been mentioned before.  (I won't go into detail, because I won't use that kind of language.)  Whatever our feelings towards Aniz/Cid, let's give May the benefit of the doubt for now.  It's true that there are no hard facts supporting it.  What I was indicating was that there were no hard facts supporting some of the other descriptions of May's prior occupation and lifestyle.

I don't know what's going to happen.  Those who know aren't talking.  Those who are talking don't know.  Furthermore, authors have the right to change their mind during the writing process.  As I said before Aniz likes to mess with your head and so does Amber.

And so I bid adieu, leaving you with this thought:  Do not be too quick to attribute a person's actions to maliciousness and diabolic planning when they can often be simply accounted for by the fact that he's just a flaming idiot.

Quote from: superluser on May 19, 2007, 12:20:40 AM

Quote from: Shadowcatcher on May 18, 2007, 09:53:41 PMAbel got the dice roll indicating he had the potential, which is why Aniz waited to this day, to see if he was truely an incubus, or just a being with wings.

It should have been obvious that Abel was an incubus when he got his clan marking.  I don't think that anything other than `cubi get those (though I have been wrong in the past).

Yep, which was noticed by May that morning, so it appeared sometime between this and his last visit home, assuming that he's moved out and living elsewhere now that he has a job.  Whether Aniz/Cid caught wind of it or noticed it earlier that day is debatable, as he seemed more interested in snitching from his breakfast plate instead of examining every square inch of his son.

Quote from: Shadowcatcher on May 19, 2007, 08:23:01 PMYep, which was noticed by May that morning, so it appeared sometime between this and his last visit home

It first appeared two years before May noticed it.  We don't know how much time passed between when May noticed it and Abel got the letter informing him of Cindy's death, but there were a few days between when Abel got the letter and when he left for the funeral.

Abel seemed to be making no effort to hide the mark, since he wears open-backed clothes.  Even Dan wears clothes that cover that area, and he has nothing to hide.

QuoteEven Dan wears clothes that cover that area, and he has nothing to hide.

I don't recall Dan ever wearing anything that covered his back, except his wings. Plus his marking didn't even come in yet since he hasn't used magic since his childhood. Depending on where it comes in I guess it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect him to sort of freak out and try to cover it.

Quote from: Xeksue on May 20, 2007, 12:11:12 AMI don't recall Dan ever wearing anything that covered his back, except his wings.

Don't post when tired and rushed, kids.  You are right.  I was confused by the fact that the neckline continues around the back, so I assumed that there were two smaller holes in the back, not one large one.

Still, it would have been easy enough to make a shirt that covered Abel's mark but not his wings, which was my point.

Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on May 19, 2007, 09:55:22 AM

Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 19, 2007, 05:13:47 AM

Quote from: Naldru on May 19, 2007, 12:13:49 AMThe one possible explanation that comes to mind (not that it is a justification) is that Devin's father knew he was sterile or impotent, and therefore knew the kid wasn't his.

Erm. Why wait for the birth, in that case?

Amber has said that there is no Half Cubi, so if one of your parents is an incubus and you were born with wings, then chances are that you are a sucubus or incubus.  Aniz is most likely the Father of Devin, and he could have been playing the field all over town, being this one's secret lover or husband, when Cid was home, or when Replaced Cid should have been adventuring, he was morphing into May's neighbors, and playing with their wives. :mowmeep  Aniz has just been waiting on Abel's  second wings to come in before he reveiled himself..  Was he waiting in the shadows all these years or playing at being Cid?, now that is the question. :mowcookiePBH

Was he revelling at playing 'Cid while he made sure that Abel was his. If looks could kill, the look Abel gave Aniz would have left a purile corpse, with his look of daggers ...  Will Aniz step down a bit, and leave the Cubism of Abel to S.A.I.A, and give May a better payout, or end up a corpse ... :mowninja

Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 19, 2007, 05:13:47 AM

Quote from: Naldru on May 19, 2007, 12:13:49 AM
The one possible explanation that comes to mind (not that it is a justification) is that Devin's father knew he was sterile or impotent, and therefore knew the kid wasn't his.

Erm. Why wait for the birth, in that case?

Very good point.  I've thought about it some more, and now feel that Devin's father was simply a despicable cad and a bounder, as the Brits would say.  And unfortunately for Devin, his mother wasn't the most stable personality.  However, I have heard of worse situations in real life.  The husband is selfish and uncaring and doesn't want kids because he doesn't want to be tied down, while the wife thinks a baby will somehow magically produce a sense of commitment on the part of the husband.  The cases I heard about were very, very unpleasant,  I actually feel depressed thinking about it.

The chances of Aniz being Devin's father just went down in my mind, because I can't see Aniz sinking that low.  Furthermore, if Aniz was looking for Cubi offspring, he would probably want a healthy environment in which they could be raised.  Devin's family wouldn't be it.

Compared to the cases I'm thinking of, Devin's life turned out very well.  I'm signing off now.

Well, Devin's mother may have been the only one who knew Aniz was an incubus...  The power of Love can made you do anything for the one you love, even if your love is cad.  If Devin's Mother knew that Aniz was only looking for a cubi baby, and he would leave her, if her child didn't have wings, then she could have easily killed her earlier babies.  But someone being about may have stop her from killing Devin.  Maybe, people were getting suspicious that she was have all these cubs and none were survived beyond a few days.  Now, with modern magics, they would be more suspicious sooner, maybe investigating after the first or second death.

Aniz is proving to be a cad in the top rates... and maybe an villain in his own right as the story goes on.  Being Incubus, Aniz could have twisted Devin's mother easily into loving him even if he was a monster, and that nothing Aniz did was wrong or someone else fault, her fault or the child or her family...  I have seen many cads, who have done that without Cubi powers to very intelligent people, too.

:mowsad
PBH

I pray that the following is simply the result of an overly vivid imagination.

It could be that I was reading too much into it, but I went back through Abel's story and some of the statements just clicked and meshed with some cases I had read about and a few that I had learned about through other means.  (None involved my family, friends, or co-workers, just in case anyone who knows me is wondering.)  If the other case details matched, Devin's father would be looking for a submissive wife, one for whom he was the only thing in her life.  Drugging her would be no fun, although he might try to trick her.  (Think of the Hitchcock movie Gaslight.)  Having a child would mean that the wife would have something to care about other than him, and would be unacceptable.  If found out, he might kill the wife since her existence without him as the entirety of her world would be unacceptable.  He certainly wouldn't leave the wife anything in the way of property or money.  If he left her, he might well kill her simply because the idea of her being able to survive without him is unacceptable.  He would actually view killing the wife and child as a favor to them since he felt they couldn't exist without him.  If he did have mental powers, he wouldn't use them because using them would mean that he couldn't control her without them.  In his world view, the only real thing would be himself and he would have no interest in leaving something for the future.  As the Sun King said ** Apres moi, le deluge **.  The future doesn't exist.  He would leave the wife in such a mental state that she might commit suicide after he left.

It just seems that the events in Devin's life could have been copied directly from one of these cases.  It could well just be coincidence, and it affects me more strongly than it should because I associate the story with these cases.  Social workers often think they see warning signs where later investigations prove the fears to be groundless.

This kind of person is a monster, a type of monster that I find far scarier than any fictional creature because it is the kind of monster that actually walks our earth.  Aniz may be a monster and a cad, but he doesn't fit the profile for this type of monster.

I see one other practical consideration against Aniz being Devin's father.  Cid/Aniz was an adventurer and traveled a lot.  If such a character had multiple families, I would think that he would have the families in different towns so that members of the two families would be less likely to meet each other.

The final result is that I don't believe that Aniz is Devin's father, but not because I don't believe that Aniz is a cad and a monster.  He's just the wrong type of monster.

Quote from: Naldru on May 20, 2007, 09:08:13 PM
I pray that the following is simply the result of an overly vivid imagination.

A prayer answered! :D

What a heck of a mouth on that one :erk

I still think that Aniz wouldn't have enough time to have carry on two child-bearing relationships at the same time--especially if at least one of them was a marriage.

Also, remember that Aniz claims to have assumed Cid's identity.  He might have to assume other identities of slain adventurers to carry on multiple relationships, and that would be significantly more difficult than simply carrying on multiple relationships.  Plus, it would be hard to explain why Devin's dad and Cid (and whomever else he was impersonating) never went after the same target.

I think PBH's earlier theory that Cid is still alive is better.

for starters lol im not really a newbie..i just typically read and lurk in the forum. but to give myself a lil bit of dmfa cred javascript:void(0);
mow dizzylol .....ive known amber since highschool and have been with DMFA since her first inking and using mrs. spicer's crap scanner for her website and comic (im just stating this so i dont seem like some random goer from wayyyy left field) but anyways i liked where the discussion was goin so i thought id throw my three cents in....lol here's my crazy notions.......

1. cid is still alive. he's prolly off adventuring or on some ridiculous quest with dan's dad chasing some wild notion possibly conjured by Aniz..... when they finally return they find the whole Aniz and May situation which could explain  how Able comes to meet Destania and be enrolled in SAIA

2. cid is dead...the other adventures find out about the facade and hunt down Aniz which is how Able comes across Dan's mom and dad and destana is able  to teach Able bout being an incubus and at the behest of her and Kria, May allows them to take him to the academy
or...

3. Kria has probably always known what Able is....its prolly why she really wanted him to learn magic. but anyways now her suspicions fully confirmed she returns to get the amulet busts in on the whole scene kills aniz and then takes Able to the academy


also just another added bonus....Aniz might be saying thpse things to may and able because it causes them to experience an emotion that he has a particular taste for...he might not mean any of it but for the sake of him "feeding" or gaining power he'll say what is necessary.

       I feel Kalika is way off base on the whole thing here. What is being shown as Abel's story should be remembered to have happened about 275 to 300 years ago in the normal comic. Remember, this is ABEL's story , and was the title , Summer of Youth ??? Dan and the rest of the gang will be 275-300 years hence.  :mowsad

        While the characters in the regular DMFA cannot affect Abels story, ( unless jyrras makes a time machine ), the past that is shown in Abel's story can affect the present. When does Aniz come in on the regular page ? :mowninja

:mowhappy However, everyone gets more interested in a despicable cad, or a flagrant villian, more than the goody-two -shoes law keepers. Is it thumbs up or down for Aniz ? :mowhappy

i guess you are right i kinda did space out the whole they live for hundreds of years bit but  you cant  blame  a girl for throwin out ideas

At least nobody's proposed the ** Dallas ** theory yet.  I may be dating myself however.  This is a plot device based on an old television show where Abel would wake up at the end of the story and realize that it was all a dream.  Note:  I am not proposing it.  Don't shoot me.  Groan if you must.

Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on May 20, 2007, 06:43:24 PM
Well, Devin's mother may have been the only one who knew Aniz was an incubus...  The power of Love can made you do anything for the one you love, even if your love is cad.  If Devin's Mother knew that Aniz was only looking for a cubi baby, and he would leave her, if her child didn't have wings, then she could have easily killed her earlier babies.  But someone being about may have stop her from killing Devin.  Maybe, people were getting suspicious that she was have all these cubs and none were survived beyond a few days.  Now, with modern magics, they would be more suspicious sooner, maybe investigating after the first or second death.  :mowdizzy  Aniz is proving to be a cad in the top rates... and maybe an villain in his own right as the story goes on.  Being Incubus, Aniz could have twisted Devin's mother easily into loving him even if he was a monster, and that nothing Aniz did was wrong or someone else fault, her fault or the child or her family...  I have seen many cads, who have done that without Cubi powers to very intelligent people, too.  :mowsad PBH

:mowninja However, remember that there is only a razor's edge between being a real cad, or oppertunism, heroics, and other varied actions. It all depends who writes the record book. If we read Aniz's record's, it may say, ( slowly repopulating the clan ) . Of course, if he turns up in dmfa, It would be as an oppuntunistic jerk.  He may be a jerk, but he can use that trait to advantage later .  :mowninja

Quote from: Zedd on May 20, 2007, 09:33:26 PM
What a heck of a mouth on that one :erk

Yeah, Bill is like that. Don't pay him any mind... :-]

Can we also be exempt from the toll he makes us pay every time we log in? That fifty dollar one...

Of course not.

(I get 20%...)

And yet we still have to deal with this age-old, outdated cardboard box service. Upgrade to a wooden chest or something! A suspicious man would begin to wonder where all that money is going to...

Can I laugh evilly?


Pretty please? :-]

You may convey this laughter by using the supplied emoticons! 


:veryevil

Quote from: kaskar on May 21, 2007, 01:01:24 AM
    :mowhappy However, everyone gets more interested in a despicable cad, or a flagrant villian, more than the goody-two -shoes law keepers. Is it thumbs up or down for Aniz ? :mowhappy

Good people feel that once an evil is explained to them, ie. the monsters had motives for the things they do.  Then that evil somehow loses some of their teeth...   This is not the case, since there is always another monster out there, and we still get blindside by it's attack, even if they are follow the same path as the last monster.  We are slow to change to protect ourselves, or we lose focus on the threat if it has not attack us in some time.

And good people are always shocked or find it hard to believe the depths of cruelty, the monsters will go to get what they want, because the people don't want to think about that they,themselves, would do, given just the "wrong" set of scenarios or misfortures...

:mowcookie
PBH

Edit: a True Hero has seen the monsters within themselves and have defeated or tamed them for the great good.  they also watch for the monsters return to the citygates or within themselves.

Quote from: kaskar on May 21, 2007, 01:01:24 AM
       I feel Kalika is way off base on the whole thing here. What is being shown as Abel's story should be remembered to have happened about 275 to 300 years ago in the normal comic. Remember, this is ABEL's story , and was the title , Summer of Youth ??? Dan and the rest of the gang will be 275-300 years hence.  :mowsad

Around 370 to 380 years ago actually, depending on how old Abel is right now since his age is listed as being 399 in the Cast listing.

I'm going to have to read through it again because I'm missing the whole Devin thing.

Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on May 21, 2007, 10:59:07 AM

Quote from: kaskar on May 21, 2007, 01:01:24 AM
    :mowhappy However, everyone gets more interested in a despicable cad, or a flagrant villian, more than the goody-two -shoes law keepers. Is it thumbs up or down for Aniz ? :mowhappy

Good people feel that once an evil is explained to them, ie. the monsters had motives for the things they do.  Then that evil somehow loses some of their teeth... 

If I see a building burning down, knowing why the fire started doesn't make me want to accept the fire.   It might help me put out the fire, prevent similar fires in the future, or decide whether the remaining structure can be fixed or should be torn down.  That's how I feel about understanding the motives of evil people.  Yes, everybody has motives for what they do, although they may not be consistent, rational or compatible with society.  It doesn't necessarily make me feel good about them.

Typhoid Mary didn't want to do evil.  It's just that cooking was the only thing she knew how to do.  That didn't justify her actions, reduce her risk to society, or mean that she shouldn't have been confined to an institution.

Some people are sympathetic to evil because they themselves find the idea of doing evil attractive.  They dislike thee goody-two-shoes law enforcers because they are an impediment to doing evil.  If they are good solely because of the fear of retribution, are they truly good?

I have heard that engineers have trouble fitting into society because they don't understand people.  I sometimes wonder if they don't fit in because they do understand people.

Quote from: Naldru on May 21, 2007, 02:41:00 AM
At least nobody's proposed the ** Dallas ** theory yet.  I may be dating myself however.  This is a plot device based on an old television show where Abel would wake up at the end of the story and realize that it was all a dream.  Note:  I am not proposing it.  Don't shoot me.  Groan if you must.

Wait, I thought the Dallas theory was the one where there were two snipers.

Quote from: BillBuckner on May 21, 2007, 03:33:28 PM

Quote from: Naldru on May 21, 2007, 02:41:00 AM
At least nobody's proposed the ** Dallas ** theory yet.  I may be dating myself however.  This is a plot device based on an old television show where Abel would wake up at the end of the story and realize that it was all a dream.  Note:  I am not proposing it.  Don't shoot me.  Groan if you must.

Wait, I thought the Dallas theory was the one where there were two snipers.

That was the Grassy Knoll theory.

Unless you are referring to the episode from Red Dwarf where it was suicide.

I prefer the JFK Reloaded theory where it was caused by a massive automobile crash involving JFK's limo jumping over a bridge.

Quote from: Naldru on May 21, 2007, 03:32:01 PM

I have heard that engineers have trouble fitting into society because they don't understand people.  I sometimes wonder if they don't fit in because they do understand people.

Engineers are simple folk, they like things that go from point A to C so long as you do B.  They wonder and love to find what B is? if it is Unknown.  Fires are chaotic, but they follows the same formulae to get started and the same rules to finish them.  But even knowing the Evils of fires, does not stop fires from happening when people Forgot to use common sense, and not use gasline on the barb-Q that is too close to the house.  Lighting fireworks off inside a crowd nightclub with only one or two exits.

People are much more complex, have different triggers and rules for each individual.  Engineers find social rules difficult to understand,  hard to trust and/or forever changing with each new generation, culture, and new town.  Culture and society are a really chaotic systems to them, that has no rhyme or reason for what social rules are, why they are change, or why some of the destructive traditions remain even to point of anarchy.  (Easter Island: best example) 

BTW: I pity Typhoid Mary, she was a good person, running in fear from a plague she could not die from.  I wonder if she ever knew that she cause all those deaths.

:mowcookie
PBH

Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on May 21, 2007, 04:34:10 PM
BTW: I pity Typhoid Mary, she was a good person, running in fear from a plague she could not die from.  I wonder if she ever knew that she cause all those deaths.

It was quite clearly explained to her, but it's not  clear if she ever really believed it.  It was only after she continued being a cook after it was explained to her that she was institutionalized.  And it had been discovered that she had resumed being a cook because of the appearance of typhoid cases.  She had been using an assumed name the last time, and that was part of the driving force behind the commitment.

There is an engineering attitude, but I think it's a little different from what you are thinking, and not all engineers have it.  The joy is not in finding the unknown but in getting the job done and perhaps an intolerance of those whose attitude they view as an obstruction to getting the job done and getting it done right.  In some ways, it is similar to that of a military officer.

There was a Jimmy Stewart film in 1951 entitled No Highway.Jimmy Stewart's character is the epitome of the engineering personality.  The scenes where he does things where people would say "Nobody would do that" are the ones that actually match behavior from engineers I have known.  (Here I am talking about family.)  The screenplay was written by Nevil Shute, who was an aeronautical engineer.

I just had a real shock.  I had thought that the movie was based on the crash of a de Havilland Comet in the 1950's.  But the listings I have show the crash to have been in 1954 and the movie released in 1951.  (There is a wikipedia article on the Comet.)  The similarities are very eerie.

Gosh we are way off topic, But I do find that Mary Mallon, orignial Typhiod Mary, story, interesting in that Many painted her Evil, when she was just a poor woman who could not make a living but as a cook..  The Medical department of New York  City never tried to help her understand her condition or try to train her to do something else.   They just lock her up because she had to go back to cooking to make a living. 

Evil enjoys messing with people's mind, lives, and stuff, just because they can.  Malice for just the power trip.    Aniz maybe evil because he feeds off of confusion.  or because he is a jerk.

PBH

Quote from: BillBuckner on May 20, 2007, 09:09:05 PM
A prayer answered! :D

Yeah, 'cause you're totally the type of person who can answer prayers, or read Amber's mind(which may itself fit into answering prayers.  I enjoy watching the comic unfold, personally.)


Anyway, I thought this would be a valid place to ponder if Abel might have spent upwards of 250 years at SAIA, and then decided to become a basement troll hiding from his father.  This, of course, assumes Aniz is still alive in "present" continuity, and now that I think about it stretches things a bit.

We may know for sure in a couple of weeks, though.(if Aniz dies, then we know my thought can't be true!)

Wel ltheres a couple hunches what will happen in a few days though? Cause what looks like might a fight will start..A big one not even Fa'Lina can stop this one

Quote from: Fuyudenki on May 21, 2007, 11:31:59 PM

Quote from: BillBuckner on May 20, 2007, 09:09:05 PM
A prayer answered! :D

Yeah, 'cause you're totally the type of person who can answer prayers, or read Amber's mind

y thank u!

Quote from: Fuyudenki on May 21, 2007, 11:31:59 PM

Anyway, I thought this would be a valid place to ponder if Abel might have spent upwards of 250 years at SAIA, and then decided to become a basement troll hiding from his father.  This, of course, assumes Aniz is still alive in "present" continuity, and now that I think about it stretches things a bit.

Well, Unless the Aniz does get kill in this comic, there is no reason why he can't still be live.  He is incubus, he will live thousands of years.

PBH

I don't think it's May that's going to start throwing the punches. I think it's Abel. Kids get awfully angry when you hit their mother. Could those be the shadows of wings in the background of the last panel?

Of course, it's questionable how far he's going to get with that, but who knows, maybe he'll pull something out of the hat.

But Aniz isn't wearing a hat. How can Abel pull him through his hat, if he's not wearing one?

... oh, hang on. Misread that. Sorry. Carry on, as you were... :-]

  :mowhappy           I wonder how Aniz would feel if Abel gave them a good jerk as if to pull them off ? Remember what happened when the bloke who was doing a documentary in Mab's fae glen grabbed her antennae, and said , " They really get annoyed when you pull them here... , and here ..." Remember the mushroom cloud that went up ? Come one now Abel, do not be shy ...

ABel is not a FAE!!!!!     Fae are the one with the little Antennas on their foreheads

Like these  *point to her head..*  the explosion occurs when you not only  pull them which causes them to overload with magic but cross them which short circuits them.

"Don't touch the head!!!!"

:explosion
PBH

*cough* Anyways its not a smart idea to yank on anything thats part of someones scalp...Etheir way...Your gonna get hurt  :P

Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on May 25, 2007, 07:45:10 AM
ABel is not a FAE!!!!!     Fae are the one with the little Antennas on their foreheads
Like these  *point to her head..*  the explosion occurs when you not only  pull them which causes them to overload with magic but cross them which short circuits them.  "Don't touch the head!!!!"  :explosion PBH

:mowmeep However, I was going to make the point, that was pointed out in the Cubi description page, that they find any attempt of injury to their headwings ...    Headwings must be delicate parts of the body, and any injury would be felt hard ...  A similar action, to try a dissimilar reaction there,  Prof ...  Just basically a way to inflict pain ...

Inflicting pain on something that has wing-tentacles that can punch through armoured steel is not a bright move, kaskar.

He might, ever so accidentally, punch a hole through your heart.

And yes, at this stage, I doubt Abel knows about the tentacles - but Aniz iz -supremely- confident, and Abel is a librarian. I can't see him doing anything effective against Aniz, can you?

I am positively giggling at this turn of events.

Simply delicious!

  :mowignore          Abel, the mild mannered librarian has long since disappeared . Just after the leaving of the funeral of his friend that comitted suicide . he has been (seemed) captured for ransom ( adventures ) , witnessed a great fight, felt a dying beings thoughts ( Devin ? ), been forced home by Missus Soulseeker, and returned in an emotional and physical mess. Abel is overflowing with emotion and adrenilin. This would be the time where Abel would really freak out ...    He could really lose all control now Aniz has bashed up his mother. He hates Aniz's guts now. When will his inner fuse blow ?  Aniz has waited around for twenty five years to get Abel on line. I don't think Aniz would even try to take Abel out now, while he is on his adrenilin high  ...                                                           

:explosion :explosion :explosion

If you make someone mad enough, it really doesn't matter what you try, they'll kill you whether that means taking you down with them or not. And even if Aniz has a lot of experience on his back, there's some things Abel will probably understand about being a cubi naturally. Seeing how calm Aniz is treating the whole situation, I have to believe he has something up his crafty and filthy sleeve.

On a side note: This new character is the BEST one yet, even if he's gonna get ripped to shreds very soonly.

My gut feeling is that Aniz will survive and turn up in the main story where he will reconcile differences with Abel, possibly with Fa'Lina and Mab violently enforcing peace and tranquility.  You also have to remember that Aniz can presumably listen to the thoughts of everybody in the room.  That would be a big advantage in fighting or avoiding a fight.

Many years ago, Sir Walter Scott wrote the following line: Oh what a tangled web we weave.  When first we practice to deceive. 

Perhaps Aniz doesn't have a great diabolical plan.  Perhaps he's simply caught up in his own web and doesn't have any idea what to do either.

Finding out your entire life upto this point has been a lie and the plaything of some sick demonesque entity with his own motives behind it? If there was EVER a time where someone was justified in going completely freaking postal I'd say this would be it. Also as for Aniz having an easy time with Abel I'd like to point out one thing.

Lunatics are considered more dangerous then the most skilled fighter in the world. Namely for the fact that they're utterly unpredicatable as to what they'll do and usually don't feel or don't care about pain. Aniz is going to be fighting skilled, calm, and rational. Abel, if it happens, is gonna be ballistic which means between adrenaline and blind rage he probably wouldn't feel it if you hit him with a truck much less whatever Aniz tries. Not to mention Aniz needs/wants Abel, he just wasted 25 years of his life on that, I doubt he's going to be going for the kill while Abel will be trying to reduce Aniz to a fine paste not unlike strawberry jam.

Quote from: Netrogo on June 05, 2007, 11:30:20 AMLunatics are considered more dangerous then the most skilled fighter in the world. Namely for the fact that they're utterly unpredicatable as to what they'll do and usually don't feel or don't care about pain. Aniz is going to be fighting skilled, calm, and rational. Abel, if it happens, is gonna be ballistic which means between adrenaline and blind rage he probably wouldn't feel it if you hit him with a truck much less whatever Aniz tries. Not to mention Aniz needs/wants Abel, he just wasted 25 years of his life on that, I doubt he's going to be going for the kill while Abel will be trying to reduce Aniz to a fine paste not unlike strawberry jam.

Personally, I would consider the most skilled fighter in the world, who has gone mad, to be more dangerous, because he's got all the mad leet skills at his disposal and will deploy them randomly.
Also, a skilled fighter will probably win against an untrained lunatic, as (s)he would know weak points, counter attacks and defences, wheras the lunatic wouldn't.

The only thing I can think of off the top of head that Aniz has on Abel in terms of sheer technique is flight, but considering the close-quarters environment, he'll have to find some way to blow the roof open or something.

The problem you have, Mwa, is that a counter-attack won't work against a lunatic, because the lunatic won't -stop- to consider that, you know, they might have a sword through them.

This is one of the reasons the Viking Berserkers were so feared - you could impale them several times over with arrows, cut off an arm, and they'd spray the blood from the stump in your face and keep coming.

That sort of dedicated attack is -very- hard to defend against. All the usual responses when you expect the other guy to take a moment to respond, there's no moments.

What if Aniz used his cubi abilities to make himself look liike May? What if he knows a fast-acting sleep spell?  What if he is able to project his image and actually left town an hour ago?

You seem to be assuming that Aniz is limited to conventional counter-attacks.

Depends, one thing in particular that Amber hasn't really shown us is how long it actually takes for a Cubi to change their shape. She's given us an idea that they can do it in a short period of time, but nothing to give us the idea that they can do it instantaneously.

I would like to just mention right now, from experience, that simple berzerking tends to, at best, have almost no effect on a trained martial artist.  All the strength in the world can't help you if your opponent's actions result in your fists hitting the back of your own head.

Quote from: Netrogo on June 05, 2007, 05:58:41 PMDepends, one thing in particular that Amber hasn't really shown us is how long it actually takes for a Cubi to change their shape. She's given us an idea that they can do it in a short period of time, but nothing to give us the idea that they can do it instantaneously.

385 and 703 suggest that it can happen in the span of a couple of sentences.  I'm guessing ten seconds, max.  More likely, a second or two.

Quote from: Fuyudenki on June 05, 2007, 07:22:45 PMI would like to just mention right now, from experience, that simple berzerking tends to, at best, have almost no effect on a trained martial artist.  All the strength in the world can't help you if your opponent's actions result in your fists hitting the back of your own head.

Not if you free your arms by ripping them *through* the other guy's.  For example, I have a problem where sometimes, my left hand doesn't let go.  That could be lethal in a fight.  If that hand latches onto his arm, that arm is out of commission unless he can forcibly detach my hand from it--or detach that hand from me.  If he tries to make me let go, I'll just get more anxious, and that hand will grip tighter, until it starts cutting off circulation.

Quote from: superluser on June 05, 2007, 09:42:31 PM

Quote from: Fuyudenki on June 05, 2007, 07:22:45 PMI would like to just mention right now, from experience, that simple berzerking tends to, at best, have almost no effect on a trained martial artist.  All the strength in the world can't help you if your opponent's actions result in your fists hitting the back of your own head.

Not if you free your arms by ripping them *through* the other guy's.  For example, I have a problem where sometimes, my left hand doesn't let go.  That could be lethal in a fight.  If that hand latches onto his arm, that arm is out of commission unless he can forcibly detach my hand from it--or detach that hand from me.  If he tries to make me let go, I'll just get more anxious, and that hand will grip tighter, until it starts cutting off circulation.

This does not make you invincible in a fight.  In fact, it just means that you'll never be out of reach, so the guy who's got you attached to his arm can repeatedly pummel your nose.  I don't care how flooded with adrenaline your system is, there are still some critical parts that the body simply can not live without.  Besides, someone properly trained in combat arts is not going to have too much trouble evading your grasp. (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_734.php)

When it all comes down to it, berzerkers aren't that hard to beat, you just have to know what you're up against.  This is what phalanxes and boar spears were designed for.  With a phalanx, you get skewered so badly that anything left of you is going to be pretty worthless for fighting.  Boar spears are even better: You get this close to me, and then I'm going to use your body as a club to pummel your buddy.

Berzerking versus combat arts is like a club vs. a sword.  Sure, the club is going to hurt more when you get hit by it, requires little training, and it's nigh unstoppable.  It's also slow, clumsy, can't be used for defense, has to be swung harder, and has to be wielded by a fairly muscular person.  While there are exceptions, a sword(let's say your average Samurai katana.) is quite fast, can be used to block, uses a style which relies on mobility, can be effectively wielded by a(well-trained) comparative weakling, and is useful for slicing off the heads of berzerkers who don't watch themselves.  It's like the Golems in Prince of Persia: Warrior Within.  The golem is a lot bigger than you, and doesn't really notice most of the damage you pump into it, but you're quicker and faster, and you can dance around so that the golem can't even touch you, as you hamstring him and then drive your sword into the base of his neck.  Great, you can grab an arm and not let go.  First, you have to grab the arm!  Rage makes you strong, but it can't teach you where to strike, how to strike, and how to counter/defend/evade.  Combat arts do all of the above.

Now, this is not to say that berzerking is utterly useless.  That's a lot of power that you're holding onto when your world dissolves into a red haze, and it is effective.  In fact, Berzerking is, in part, the style which I myself subscribe to, but which is more powerful: a flashlight, or a laser beam?  Pure berzerking rage may be bright, like a very powerful flashlight, but you're not going to hurt anyone with that short of clubbing them over the head.  If you can focus that power into a combat art, you take it from a flashlight to a laser beam, and while those are still in their infancy for weapons purposes, a well-focused laser can do a lot of damage.

Quote from: Fuyudenki on June 06, 2007, 01:51:58 AMThis does not make you invincible in a fight.  In fact, it just means that you'll never be out of reach, so the guy who's got you attached to his arm can repeatedly pummel your nose.

He'd better kill me fast, then, or else he's out an arm.

Remember--it's not that I don't want to let go, it's that I can't let go.  I still have a sort of palmar grasp reflex, but with the strength of a full-grown man.  If I'm highly anxious (as if someone were fighting me), and he so much as brushes that palm, I'll give even odds that I'll draw blood--whether I want to or not.

A berserker is effective not because he's strong, but because he will keep fighting regardless of what happens to him.  What we're arguing is that a crazed Abel, acting on instinct and ignoring pain, might be able to defeat Aniz, since he doesn't know/care when he's been beaten and will continue to fight until he dies.

Plz stop measuring your fight-style penises in the thread k thx.

(http://img7.exs.cx/img7/8835/epenis.jpg)

I was thinking of a quote from Sun Tzu in The Art of War and found it at http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html (see III.2)

Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

I hear a lot of Rambo wanna-be's out there.  Remember this:  Rambo was a fool, and he only survived in the first movie because the sherrif was more of a fool than he was.  If all you think about is how to fight, you will probably die without accomplishing anything.

:tmyk

If you are attempting to mock me, I would think that the exchange

And now we know
And knowing is half the battle

from that other group of Rambo Wanna-be's, GI Joe, would have a more satiric effect than mentioning the The More You Know (http://themoreyouknow.com) series from NBC.  I have no objection to insults and satire, but I would hope for a higher level of erudition and perspicacity in your future taunts.

Ooooh she dissed your diss man :U

Quote from: Netrogo on June 06, 2007, 05:44:36 PM
Ooooh she dissed your diss man :U

I hate to break this to you, Netrogo, but Naldru is listed as male...

And for the love of all that is good don't ask him to prove it.

What is with guys on this forum and having effeminate names?!? :erk :U

Quote from: Netrogo on June 06, 2007, 07:39:45 PM
What is with guys on this forum and having effeminate names?!? :erk :U

Must be something in the water.

Quote from: Kenji on June 06, 2007, 07:43:33 PM

Must be something in the water.

So THATS why the bathroom is always clogged.

Quote from: Kenji on June 06, 2007, 07:43:33 PM

Quote from: Netrogo on June 06, 2007, 07:39:45 PM
What is with guys on this forum and having effeminate names?!? :erk :U

Must be something in the water.

Yeah, like estrogen :erk

Are you drinking the water around here, Netrogo? I thought we warned you about that...

Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on June 06, 2007, 08:05:41 PM
Are you drinking the water around here, Netrogo? I thought we warned you about that...

Acctually I warned him about the water from Mexico....  Personally the water helps keep me from flying into a testosterone induced rage...  *guzzles from his gallon water jug*

Quote from: Kenji on June 06, 2007, 07:43:33 PM

Quote from: Netrogo on June 06, 2007, 07:39:45 PM
What is with guys on this forum and having effeminate names?!? :erk :U

Must be something in the water.

I really hadn't thought of Naldru as conveying information of any sort  I picked it as a random combination of syllables.  I took a look at some lists of names and there does seem to be a trend of feminine first names ending in vowel sounds while masculine names tend to end in either vowels or consonants.  I suppose ending a name in t or d would have a strong masculine feeling while ending it with a, e, or i would have a relatively strong feminine feeling, at least to someone used to Anglo-Saxon names.  I view Naldru as rhyming with Andrew, and Andrew would certainly be viewed as a masculine name.

Different languages would have different rules.  For example, my understanding is that Japanese would view the ending ko (A-ko, B-ko, C-ko) as feminine and the ending ku (Goku) as masculine.  Spanish and French have still another set of patterns.

I remember something about a psychological study some years ago where the subjects were given random syllables and asked to rank them on a feminine/masculine scale.  I can't remember the details but there was something about words that sounded rougher being viewed as masculine.

*****  *****

I should warn you that there is a danger in asking rhetorical questions of engineers.  They tend to give logical and serious answers even if the question is illogical.

Quote from: Naldru on June 06, 2007, 09:59:28 PM
I should warn you that there is a danger in asking rhetorical questions of engineers.  They tend to give logical and serious answers even if the question is illogical.

... that's a problem?

Quote from: Naldru on June 06, 2007, 05:27:35 PM
If you are attempting to mock me, I would think that the exchange

And now we know
And knowing is half the battle

from that other group of Rambo Wanna-be's, GI Joe, would have a more satiric effect than mentioning the The More You Know (http://themoreyouknow.com) series from NBC.  I have no objection to insults and satire, but I would hope for a higher level of erudition and perspicacity in your future taunts.

And you're fat.

Super fat.

Did he say phat? I think he said phat :<