2007-05-18 Ouch (Abel 90)

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

But Aniz isn't wearing a hat. How can Abel pull him through his hat, if he's not wearing one?

... oh, hang on. Misread that. Sorry. Carry on, as you were... :-]

[kaskar]

             I wonder how Aniz would feel if Abel gave them a good jerk as if to pull them off ? Remember what happened when the bloke who was doing a documentary in Mab's fae glen grabbed her antennae, and said , " They really get annoyed when you pull them here... , and here ..." Remember the mushroom cloud that went up ? Come one now Abel, do not be shy ...

[Prof B Hunnydew]

ABel is not a FAE!!!!!     Fae are the one with the little Antennas on their foreheads

Like these  *point to her head..*  the explosion occurs when you not only  pull them which causes them to overload with magic but cross them which short circuits them.

"Don't touch the head!!!!"


PBH

[Zedd]

*cough* Anyways its not a smart idea to yank on anything thats part of someones scalp...Etheir way...Your gonna get hurt 

[kaskar]

ABel is not a FAE!!!!!     Fae are the one with the little Antennas on their foreheads
Like these  *point to her head..*  the explosion occurs when you not only  pull them which causes them to overload with magic but cross them which short circuits them.  "Don't touch the head!!!!"  PBH

However, I was going to make the point, that was pointed out in the Cubi description page, that they find any attempt of injury to their headwings ...    Headwings must be delicate parts of the body, and any injury would be felt hard ...  A similar action, to try a dissimilar reaction there,  Prof ...  Just basically a way to inflict pain ...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Inflicting pain on something that has wing-tentacles that can punch through armoured steel is not a bright move, kaskar.

He might, ever so accidentally, punch a hole through your heart.

And yes, at this stage, I doubt Abel knows about the tentacles - but Aniz iz -supremely- confident, and Abel is a librarian. I can't see him doing anything effective against Aniz, can you?

[Blast]

I am positively giggling at this turn of events.

Simply delicious!

[kaskar]

            Abel, the mild mannered librarian has long since disappeared . Just after the leaving of the funeral of his friend that comitted suicide . he has been (seemed) captured for ransom ( adventures ) , witnessed a great fight, felt a dying beings thoughts ( Devin ? ), been forced home by Missus Soulseeker, and returned in an emotional and physical mess. Abel is overflowing with emotion and adrenilin. This would be the time where Abel would really freak out ...    He could really lose all control now Aniz has bashed up his mother. He hates Aniz's guts now. When will his inner fuse blow ?  Aniz has waited around for twenty five years to get Abel on line. I don't think Aniz would even try to take Abel out now, while he is on his adrenilin high  ...                                                           

[TheDXM]

If you make someone mad enough, it really doesn't matter what you try, they'll kill you whether that means taking you down with them or not. And even if Aniz has a lot of experience on his back, there's some things Abel will probably understand about being a cubi naturally. Seeing how calm Aniz is treating the whole situation, I have to believe he has something up his crafty and filthy sleeve.

On a side note: This new character is the BEST one yet, even if he's gonna get ripped to shreds very soonly.

[Naldru]

My gut feeling is that Aniz will survive and turn up in the main story where he will reconcile differences with Abel, possibly with Fa'Lina and Mab violently enforcing peace and tranquility.  You also have to remember that Aniz can presumably listen to the thoughts of everybody in the room.  That would be a big advantage in fighting or avoiding a fight.

Many years ago, Sir Walter Scott wrote the following line: Oh what a tangled web we weave.  When first we practice to deceive. 

Perhaps Aniz doesn't have a great diabolical plan.  Perhaps he's simply caught up in his own web and doesn't have any idea what to do either.

[Netrogo]

Finding out your entire life upto this point has been a lie and the plaything of some sick demonesque entity with his own motives behind it? If there was EVER a time where someone was justified in going completely freaking postal I'd say this would be it. Also as for Aniz having an easy time with Abel I'd like to point out one thing.

Lunatics are considered more dangerous then the most skilled fighter in the world. Namely for the fact that they're utterly unpredicatable as to what they'll do and usually don't feel or don't care about pain. Aniz is going to be fighting skilled, calm, and rational. Abel, if it happens, is gonna be ballistic which means between adrenaline and blind rage he probably wouldn't feel it if you hit him with a truck much less whatever Aniz tries. Not to mention Aniz needs/wants Abel, he just wasted 25 years of his life on that, I doubt he's going to be going for the kill while Abel will be trying to reduce Aniz to a fine paste not unlike strawberry jam.

[Mwa]

Lunatics are considered more dangerous then the most skilled fighter in the world. Namely for the fact that they're utterly unpredicatable as to what they'll do and usually don't feel or don't care about pain. Aniz is going to be fighting skilled, calm, and rational. Abel, if it happens, is gonna be ballistic which means between adrenaline and blind rage he probably wouldn't feel it if you hit him with a truck much less whatever Aniz tries. Not to mention Aniz needs/wants Abel, he just wasted 25 years of his life on that, I doubt he's going to be going for the kill while Abel will be trying to reduce Aniz to a fine paste not unlike strawberry jam.

Personally, I would consider the most skilled fighter in the world, who has gone mad, to be more dangerous, because he's got all the mad leet skills at his disposal and will deploy them randomly.
Also, a skilled fighter will probably win against an untrained lunatic, as (s)he would know weak points, counter attacks and defences, wheras the lunatic wouldn't.

[TheDXM]

The only thing I can think of off the top of head that Aniz has on Abel in terms of sheer technique is flight, but considering the close-quarters environment, he'll have to find some way to blow the roof open or something.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The problem you have, Mwa, is that a counter-attack won't work against a lunatic, because the lunatic won't -stop- to consider that, you know, they might have a sword through them.

This is one of the reasons the Viking Berserkers were so feared - you could impale them several times over with arrows, cut off an arm, and they'd spray the blood from the stump in your face and keep coming.

That sort of dedicated attack is -very- hard to defend against. All the usual responses when you expect the other guy to take a moment to respond, there's no moments.

[Naldru]

What if Aniz used his cubi abilities to make himself look liike May? What if he knows a fast-acting sleep spell?  What if he is able to project his image and actually left town an hour ago?

You seem to be assuming that Aniz is limited to conventional counter-attacks.

[Netrogo]

Depends, one thing in particular that Amber hasn't really shown us is how long it actually takes for a Cubi to change their shape. She's given us an idea that they can do it in a short period of time, but nothing to give us the idea that they can do it instantaneously.

[Fuyudenki]

I would like to just mention right now, from experience, that simple berzerking tends to, at best, have almost no effect on a trained martial artist.  All the strength in the world can't help you if your opponent's actions result in your fists hitting the back of your own head.

[superluser]

Depends, one thing in particular that Amber hasn't really shown us is how long it actually takes for a Cubi to change their shape. She's given us an idea that they can do it in a short period of time, but nothing to give us the idea that they can do it instantaneously.

385 and 703 suggest that it can happen in the span of a couple of sentences.  I'm guessing ten seconds, max.  More likely, a second or two.

I would like to just mention right now, from experience, that simple berzerking tends to, at best, have almost no effect on a trained martial artist.  All the strength in the world can't help you if your opponent's actions result in your fists hitting the back of your own head.

Not if you free your arms by ripping them *through* the other guy's.  For example, I have a problem where sometimes, my left hand doesn't let go.  That could be lethal in a fight.  If that hand latches onto his arm, that arm is out of commission unless he can forcibly detach my hand from it--or detach that hand from me.  If he tries to make me let go, I'll just get more anxious, and that hand will grip tighter, until it starts cutting off circulation.

[Fuyudenki]

I would like to just mention right now, from experience, that simple berzerking tends to, at best, have almost no effect on a trained martial artist.  All the strength in the world can't help you if your opponent's actions result in your fists hitting the back of your own head.

Not if you free your arms by ripping them *through* the other guy's.  For example, I have a problem where sometimes, my left hand doesn't let go.  That could be lethal in a fight.  If that hand latches onto his arm, that arm is out of commission unless he can forcibly detach my hand from it--or detach that hand from me.  If he tries to make me let go, I'll just get more anxious, and that hand will grip tighter, until it starts cutting off circulation.

This does not make you invincible in a fight.  In fact, it just means that you'll never be out of reach, so the guy who's got you attached to his arm can repeatedly pummel your nose.  I don't care how flooded with adrenaline your system is, there are still some critical parts that the body simply can not live without.  Besides, someone properly trained in combat arts is not going to have too much trouble evading your grasp.

When it all comes down to it, berzerkers aren't that hard to beat, you just have to know what you're up against.  This is what phalanxes and boar spears were designed for.  With a phalanx, you get skewered so badly that anything left of you is going to be pretty worthless for fighting.  Boar spears are even better: You get this close to me, and then I'm going to use your body as a club to pummel your buddy.

Berzerking versus combat arts is like a club vs. a sword.  Sure, the club is going to hurt more when you get hit by it, requires little training, and it's nigh unstoppable.  It's also slow, clumsy, can't be used for defense, has to be swung harder, and has to be wielded by a fairly muscular person.  While there are exceptions, a sword(let's say your average Samurai katana.) is quite fast, can be used to block, uses a style which relies on mobility, can be effectively wielded by a(well-trained) comparative weakling, and is useful for slicing off the heads of berzerkers who don't watch themselves.  It's like the Golems in Prince of Persia: Warrior Within.  The golem is a lot bigger than you, and doesn't really notice most of the damage you pump into it, but you're quicker and faster, and you can dance around so that the golem can't even touch you, as you hamstring him and then drive your sword into the base of his neck.  Great, you can grab an arm and not let go.  First, you have to grab the arm!  Rage makes you strong, but it can't teach you where to strike, how to strike, and how to counter/defend/evade.  Combat arts do all of the above.

Now, this is not to say that berzerking is utterly useless.  That's a lot of power that you're holding onto when your world dissolves into a red haze, and it is effective.  In fact, Berzerking is, in part, the style which I myself subscribe to, but which is more powerful: a flashlight, or a laser beam?  Pure berzerking rage may be bright, like a very powerful flashlight, but you're not going to hurt anyone with that short of clubbing them over the head.  If you can focus that power into a combat art, you take it from a flashlight to a laser beam, and while those are still in their infancy for weapons purposes, a well-focused laser can do a lot of damage.

[superluser]

This does not make you invincible in a fight.  In fact, it just means that you'll never be out of reach, so the guy who's got you attached to his arm can repeatedly pummel your nose.

He'd better kill me fast, then, or else he's out an arm.

Remember--it's not that I don't want to let go, it's that I can't let go.  I still have a sort of palmar grasp reflex, but with the strength of a full-grown man.  If I'm highly anxious (as if someone were fighting me), and he so much as brushes that palm, I'll give even odds that I'll draw blood--whether I want to or not.

A berserker is effective not because he's strong, but because he will keep fighting regardless of what happens to him.  What we're arguing is that a crazed Abel, acting on instinct and ignoring pain, might be able to defeat Aniz, since he doesn't know/care when he's been beaten and will continue to fight until he dies.

[Amber Williams]

Plz stop measuring your fight-style penises in the thread k thx.

[Netrogo]

[Naldru]

I was thinking of a quote from Sun Tzu in The Art of War and found it at http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html (see III.2)

Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

I hear a lot of Rambo wanna-be's out there.  Remember this:  Rambo was a fool, and he only survived in the first movie because the sherrif was more of a fool than he was.  If all you think about is how to fight, you will probably die without accomplishing anything.

[bill]

[Naldru]

If you are attempting to mock me, I would think that the exchange

And now we know
And knowing is half the battle

from that other group of Rambo Wanna-be's, GI Joe, would have a more satiric effect than mentioning the The More You Know (http://themoreyouknow.com) series from NBC.  I have no objection to insults and satire, but I would hope for a higher level of erudition and perspicacity in your future taunts.

[Netrogo]

Ooooh she dissed your diss man

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Ooooh she dissed your diss man

I hate to break this to you, Netrogo, but Naldru is listed as male...

[Valynth]

And for the love of all that is good don't ask him to prove it.

[Netrogo]

What is with guys on this forum and having effeminate names?!?

[Kenji]

What is with guys on this forum and having effeminate names?!?

Must be something in the water.