The Clockwork Mansion

Village Square => The Lost Lake Inn => Topic started by: VAE on May 09, 2011, 12:04:17 AM

Title: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 09, 2011, 12:04:17 AM
So the spell was really a backlash from massive soul energy release.
I wonder if this could actually be weaponised... something for Jayhawk Cybernetics to look into , i guess - SoulNuke :3

Also.. a good answer to anyone thinking dragons are the better alternative to cubi.. they are sortta.. bad and worse, well, from a being outlook.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: terrycloth on May 09, 2011, 12:09:22 AM
Well, that depends on whether anything else normally happens to your soul after you die. If you just evaporate or something then why *not* get eaten by a dragon?
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 09, 2011, 12:11:55 AM
Hee... hee...
I actually made up a cult (for DnDMFA purposes) based on that about a week ago.
Basically, they revere True Death since they believe souls are eternally tortured and their suffering feeds some nasty extradimensional entity.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: RandomMetaphysics on May 09, 2011, 12:29:14 AM
Wow. Just... wow. This update sucker-punched me. Cyra didn't intend to destroy Hishaan at all...

However, two questions just popped into my head:
One) When Cyra defeated M'Chek, did she also claim the souls of Hishaan's current residents in the process?
Two) Were the people aware of what would occur when one of them died within the city?
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Aadarm on May 09, 2011, 12:47:55 AM
Cyra wasn't in the wrong here. Though wiping out cities is bad for the image...
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Blackwolf359 on May 09, 2011, 01:10:12 AM
I believe the Cubi motto is something like "It seemed like a good idea at the time..."

It seems to apply here...
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Galis on May 09, 2011, 01:24:49 AM
Quote from: Aadarm on May 09, 2011, 12:47:55 AM
Cyra wasn't in the wrong here. Though wiping out cities is bad for the image...

Except for the part where she decided to murder a sentient being and their entire family purely for personal power? ;)

A being whom at the time she believed was protecting other people, no less.  She did not go to that city to liberate it or help anyone but herself.

I'm sure that's what she means by "not devoid of cruel intent."  Had she known what M'Chek was up to, then she would have had a noble cause.  Instead, she came to the city with selfish murderous purpose.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: AxiLarin on May 09, 2011, 01:25:45 AM
Quote from: RandomMetaphysics on May 09, 2011, 12:29:14 AM
Wow. Just... wow. This update sucker-punched me. Cyra didn't intend to destroy Hishaan at all...

However, two questions just popped into my head:
One) When Cyra defeated M'Chek, did she also claim the souls of Hishaan's current residents in the process?
Two) Were the people aware of what would occur when one of them died within the city?

1) She wasn't out to harvest souls, so I'm thinking no.
2)  That's interesting.  Was there a pact/agreement between M'Chek and the people of the town that spelled this out?  Like, "Alright, I'll protect your city from all hostile forces.  In return, I get your souls when you die."  "Sounds fair, Mr. intimidating dragon."
But this leads me to question 3:  Were the people aware that if something should happen to M'Chek, they'd be hosed?
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: LoneHowler on May 09, 2011, 01:27:05 AM
So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 09, 2011, 01:29:01 AM
Quote from: Galis on May 09, 2011, 01:24:49 AM
Quote from: Aadarm on May 09, 2011, 12:47:55 AM
Cyra wasn't in the wrong here. Though wiping out cities is bad for the image...

Except for the part where she decided to murder a sentient being and their entire family purely for personal power? ;)

A being whom at the time she believed was protecting other people, no less.  She did not go to that city to liberate it or help anyone but herself.

I'm sure that's what she means by "not devoid of cruel intent."  Had she known what M'Chek was up to, then she would have had a noble cause.  Instead, she came to the city with selfish murderous purpose.
Am under the impression it's the result that matters most.
Well, not like it ended great for the citizens , either :3
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Maark30 on May 09, 2011, 01:57:16 AM
Quote from: LoneHowler on May 09, 2011, 01:27:05 AM
So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future

That sounds like a fair idea except the Phoenix seem to like her and to devour a Phoenix soul would cut their number down (since there is a set number of Phoenix and each ones soul is reborn as itself when they die)  which is something I don't think has ever happened to them.  :mowcookie

But Amber can prove me very wrong.  :mowsad
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Alphonse on May 09, 2011, 02:11:02 AM
So she didn't turn everyone into glass on pourpose, fasinating...

Also.. is Abel smiling? :erk
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Tapewolf on May 09, 2011, 02:46:50 AM
Quote from: terrycloth on May 09, 2011, 12:09:22 AM
Well, that depends on whether anything else normally happens to your soul after you die. If you just evaporate or something then why *not* get eaten by a dragon?

There does seem to be some kind of after-existence.  That's not to rule out the possibility that souls eventually decay, but it is possible to resurrect people for some time after they have died - the undead, for example, or Dark Pegasus.

Quote from: AxiLarin on May 09, 2011, 01:25:45 AM
1) She wasn't out to harvest souls, so I'm thinking no.
2)  That's interesting.  Was there a pact/agreement between M'Chek and the people of the town that spelled this out?  Like, "Alright, I'll protect your city from all hostile forces.  In return, I get your souls when you die."  "Sounds fair, Mr. intimidating dragon."

Actually it rather looks like she was out to harvest M'Chek's soul.  But as for whether the citizens knew, I would suggest not.  Cyra is surely not going to have taken on a dragon-run city without some form of reconnaissance, or without ever having visited the city before.  If the citizens were consciously aware of their fate, she would surely have known in their minds.

EDIT: And I find it a little difficult that his children would willingly agree to be eaten by daddy.

Quote from: LoneHowler on May 09, 2011, 01:27:05 AM
So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future

I think that like the Fae, they don't have souls in the conventional sense.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Feather Dancer on May 09, 2011, 03:09:35 AM
Whoops.

So the bugger pulled a trap card basically didn't he? Even in death throes.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 09, 2011, 03:13:51 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on May 09, 2011, 02:46:50 AM
Quote from: terrycloth on May 09, 2011, 12:09:22 AM
Well, that depends on whether anything else normally happens to your soul after you die. If you just evaporate or something then why *not* get eaten by a dragon?

There does seem to be some kind of after-existence.  That's not to rule out the possibility that souls eventually decay, but it is possible to resurrect people for some time after they have died - the undead, for example, or Dark Pegasus.

Not entirely sure there, Tape.
With undead, it looks to me as if the soul never leaves the body - the transformation happens immediately after death. (alternately , that they work without one, though that i  don't think is the case - something makes me think it was explicitly said they have one)
As for DP... well, his body seems crucial in the process.. maybe it fixates his soul somehow, bringing us back to the above point. After all it was said a bunch of times cremating him would have ended it.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Tapewolf on May 09, 2011, 03:32:14 AM
Quote from: VAE on May 09, 2011, 03:13:51 AM
With undead, it looks to me as if the soul never leaves the body - the transformation happens immediately after death. (alternately , that they work without one, though that i  don't think is the case - something makes me think it was explicitly said they have one)

They do.  DP did something to Hannah's to prevent her being resurrected, if you remember Amber's comment at the time.  And that was aside from cremating her.  Interestingly, Shanna referred to this as "her soul has gone on," as opposed to destroyed or whatever.  That implies some kind of multi-tiered afterlife to me, but I'm just guessing.

QuoteAs for DP... well, his body seems crucial in the process.. maybe it fixates his soul somehow, bringing us back to the above point. After all it was said a bunch of times cremating him would have ended it.
That we cannot guess at.  DP would have required some kind of body anyway.  Someone like him might not be too pleased to be brought back in the body of a street urchin or someone else who would not be missed if they disappeared.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 09, 2011, 03:45:39 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on May 09, 2011, 03:32:14 AM
Quote from: VAE on May 09, 2011, 03:13:51 AM
With undead, it looks to me as if the soul never leaves the body - the transformation happens immediately after death. (alternately , that they work without one, though that i  don't think is the case - something makes me think it was explicitly said they have one)

They do.  DP did something to Hannah's to prevent her being resurrected, if you remember Amber's comment at the time.  And that was aside from cremating her.  Interestingly, Shanna referred to this as "her soul has gone on," as opposed to destroyed or whatever.  That implies some kind of multi-tiered afterlife to me, but I'm just guessing.
True, the "moved on" bit suggests an afterlife etc.
Makes me wonder about Devin.... i mean, his joints etc. are replaced... it is a possibility he got ressurected/zombified a fair bit of time after his physical death.
But then , if undead lack souls. it's irrelevant.


Quote
QuoteAs for DP... well, his body seems crucial in the process.. maybe it fixates his soul somehow, bringing us back to the above point. After all it was said a bunch of times cremating him would have ended it.
That we cannot guess at.  DP would have required some kind of body anyway.  Someone like him might not be too pleased to be brought back in the body of a street urchin or someone else who would not be missed if they disappeared.
Heh... especially if the powers weren't kept ( i assume they come from the body.. like when Keaton or Dorcan or Seth got into androids), it'd be a pretty crappy life extension.
I guess it's my DnD bias showing... there ressurection spells either require a body explicitly as an ingredient,  or can make one up, the stronger ones.

Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Tapewolf on May 09, 2011, 04:06:36 AM
Quote from: VAE on May 09, 2011, 03:45:39 AM
Makes me wonder about Devin.... i mean, his joints etc. are replaced... it is a possibility he got ressurected/zombified a fair bit of time after his physical death.
But then , if undead lack souls. it's irrelevant.

Ah, now that is a good point.  What happened when DP did his magic trick was that undead which formerly did not have souls suddenly got them.  In Devin's case it's not clear whether he ended up with his own damaged soul or a brand new one.  So while the original models were just animated flesh, current undead certainly do have souls.

QuoteI guess it's my DnD bias showing... there ressurection spells either require a body explicitly as an ingredient,  or can make one up, the stronger ones.
That may also be possible in Furrae, we don't know.  All we know for sure is that the spell DP uses needs one.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Mao on May 09, 2011, 07:21:39 AM
Avoiding the obvious plot bomb that was just dropped and the ever present question of if it makes Cyra evil or not, I have to say I may not like Abel much (and likely never will) but I do enjoy his role as a foil to Dan.  I like Dan.  Honestly and truly do, but he needs something to ground him in the present reality sometimes.  Abel achieves this quite well with his remarks and presence.

Also Vae, Danman or whatever it is you're going by at the moment: Tape has his own forum if you'd rather discuss the possible implications this has on his continuity and characters.  I'm sure you're already quite familiar with it.  ;-]
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: LordViking on May 09, 2011, 07:34:29 AM
Kodos to those that predicted she wanted to become the city's new protector, have a cookie. :mowcookie

The image, while not historically accurate, shows Cyra as a Tri-Wing which could mean she became a Tri-Wing before attacking the city. However that means that it was not this action that made her ascend but something still unknown, possibly even to the other cubi as her clan leader page says that her means of ascension is what started the Dragon-Cubi war while the attack on Hishaan is referred to the same way.

Quote from: LoneHowler on May 09, 2011, 01:27:05 AM
So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future
As mentioned, Phoenix souls are probably a bit like Fae souls as they have a fixed number and are reborn constantly. It could have been a Mythos or a Gryphon B/C though. But we are assuming here that the wing-heads resemble the heads of the creature (race or individual) whose soul was sucked. Has it been stated somewhere soul sucking was the only way to attain Tri-Wing status? What of those that became Tri-Wing without sucking out a soul, do they not have wing-heads? (There is at least one living Tri-Wing without wing-heads.)
And what about Zezzuva and her clan? Do her wing-heads resemble her sister? That must be all kinds of awkward if not downright creepy.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Mao on May 09, 2011, 07:51:13 AM
Quote from: LordViking on May 09, 2011, 07:34:29 AM
Kodos to those that predicted she wanted to become the city's new protector

Kudos, actually.  I don't think people would want a kodo.  Or maybe they would.. they are kinda cool.

Quote from: LordViking on May 09, 2011, 07:34:29 AM
The image, while not historically accurate, shows Cyra as a Tri-Wing which could mean she became a Tri-Wing before attacking the city. However that means that it was not this action that made her ascend but something still unknown, possibly even to the other cubi as her clan leader page says that her means of ascension is what started the Dragon-Cubi war while the attack on Hishaan is referred to the same way.

Not necessarily historically accurate, but to me it seems like a rendition of Cyra standing over M'Chek in victory.  If the backlash from his defeat is what made her a Tri-wing it would be accurate.  Hard to tell, really.

One other niggling point, and one that might not be of any consequence, but her clan leader page only says that others agree that it was her ascension that caused the war.  It does seem likely at this point, but the question I'd want answered before I agreed to it being the case 100% is "Do they have all of the facts?"  I'm sure I can get a large group of people to agree to anything if I doctor the facts to their liking and just make it plausible enough for them.  Doesn't mean that what I've told them is true or complete.  I'm not going to scream to the high heavens or debate the point, but the wording is just enough to give me a moments pause.

Quote from: LordViking on May 09, 2011, 07:34:29 AM
Quote from: LoneHowler on May 09, 2011, 01:27:05 AM
So that's why her clan had dragon heads on their wing tenticles. So I wonder if Fa'lina used phonix souls as her main way to gain assention. It could also explain her ability to see the future
As mentioned, Phoenix souls are probably a bit like Fae souls as they have a fixed number and are reborn constantly. It could have been a Mythos or a Gryphon B/C though. But we are assuming here that the wing-heads resemble the heads of the creature (race or individual) whose soul was sucked. Has it been stated somewhere soul sucking was the only way to attain Tri-Wing status? What of those that became Tri-Wing without sucking out a soul, do they not have wing-heads? (There is at least one living Tri-Wing without wing-heads.)
And what about Zezzuva and her clan? Do her wing-heads resemble her sister? That must be all kinds of awkward if not downright creepy.

To say the least.  I don't recall anything anywhere about the tentacle heads matching up with the power(s) that are used to fuel an ascension, but it's a neat idea. Nothing to really back that up, sadly.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Turnsky on May 09, 2011, 07:53:13 AM
Quote from: Mao Laoren on May 09, 2011, 07:51:13 AM
To say the least.  I don't recall anything anywhere about the tentacle heads matching up with the power(s) that are used to fuel an ascension, but it's a neat idea. Nothing to really back that up, sadly.

it'd look like a scene from "the thing" one would think.  >:3
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Wurgel on May 09, 2011, 08:51:10 AM
Taking Cyras description as pure truth, i see just 2 ways:

1: She was a tri-wing before. That way she had the power to defeat an ancient dragon for sure

2: She knew, that devouring his soul would let her ascend to tri-wing status. That way she was still fighting a dragon, that normally just a tri-wing could face equally.

Just killing him for his power without knowing about ascending or being ascended before would contradict her "and my children would rule over it....". It Implies, that she would be a clanleader, when she replaces the dragon as guardian.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Mao on May 09, 2011, 09:32:56 AM
Quote from: Wurgel on May 09, 2011, 08:51:10 AM
Taking Cyras description as pure truth, i see just 2 ways:

1: She was a tri-wing before. That way she had the power to defeat an ancient dragon for sure

2: She knew, that devouring his soul would let her ascend to tri-wing status. That way she was still fighting a dragon, that normally just a tri-wing could face equally.

Just killing him for his power without knowing about ascending or being ascended before would contradict her "and my children would rule over it....". It Implies, that she would be a clanleader, when she replaces the dragon as guardian.

1: Quite possible.
2: Assuming she went in with the intent of devouring his soul, yes.  For all we know she just planned to defeat him, thus ousting him as 'guardian' and installing her and her clan as the new guardians of the city.  From what I understand, a clan leader does not have to be a tri-wing so it's quite possible that she already had a clan of her own going.  Her actions could have just led to the ascension to tri-wing status.

To me, it just looks like she was trying to secure a home and future for her family/clan with her actions (albeit at the expense of M'Chek and his ilk).  The process of doing so appears to have had unexpected results.  I'm sure she knew he had power and intended to take it for her own, but the nature and magnitude of his power appears to have taken her by surprise.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: joshofspam on May 09, 2011, 11:34:08 AM
This might also explain Destania's outlook on life when she messed up Abel.

If the clan gained such power in a way that they would find distasteful. Then what she says about them all deserving what they got kind of makes sense.

This might also be another reason why the dragon's are after her clan. The dragons say revenge, but I'm thinking more of a cover up. It also goes a long way of showing things were significantly more complex then Dan would figure those times would be.

Sometimes I feel Dan is a little too innocent for the world he lives in. If he isn't careful, he might just walk into the hands of an enemy he never considered was a threat. Though these little tastes of reality might save his life one day.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Anker Steadfast on May 09, 2011, 12:07:09 PM
Well, it seems Ambargh is as capable of delivering plot twists as ever.
And on top of that, the art on the latest page is really nice.

:D
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Feather Dancer on May 09, 2011, 12:14:43 PM
I've been wondering while I was out and I starting to very much doubt this was the first scuffle a Cubi had with a dragon let alone one involving a dragon's death. I suspect spats had been going on looong before this happened between Cyra and M'chek but in such a way that Dragons were being beaten/decked but less blatantly so it could be hidden. This would make sense in a grudge starting to form on the dragons front (That if I remember correct keep out other families affairs?) causing more skirmishes to occur from nerves from indviduals but not the whole race.

However when we look at THIS fight there is a big a difference with my assumption flow, there ended up being a giant city of glass sitting there as a marker going "A Dragon here was defeated by a Cubi". Now that would easily play on paranoia of an inferior race decking them AND for the show of other locals plus any run up spats before. Heck from Abel's wording it seems to figure it was the result of the spat than the actual spat that did it. It would certainly explain the big grudge Dragons have towards the Cyra clan and why Fa'Lina's was wiped out for hiding Dee plus smacking down other cubi would be a big show of "Do not screw with us or THIS is what happens!"

So my only other wonder is, was the actual magical backlash that caused the glassifying (An accidental or delibrate death throe from M'chek?) or in Cyra's defending herself from the backlash and everything going to hell in the process.


Welp that feels good to get out me system and probably completely wrong :D
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Naldru on May 09, 2011, 12:42:08 PM
Of course you are assuming that Hishaan was waiting for the inhabitants of the city to die rather than going for fresher food on the hoof.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Tangent on May 09, 2011, 01:04:25 PM
So she did good... but out of selfish intentions. And she holds herself responsible for what happened

Damn but now I dislike dragons! ^^;;
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Feather Dancer on May 09, 2011, 01:06:25 PM
The boom was when he died according to Cyra mind but yeah coulda been nomming/splating during the fight or abusing people as crossfire bait.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Tapewolf on May 09, 2011, 01:44:31 PM
One of the things I'm curious about is whether Dan is remembering an earlier conversation, or whether Cyra is talking to him in his head.  I'm tending towards the latter on the grounds that if she'd said this during their chat, Dan might not have been quite so mad afterwards.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Kaerou on May 09, 2011, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: VAE on May 09, 2011, 12:04:17 AM
Also.. a good answer to anyone thinking dragons are the better alternative to cubi.. they are sortta.. bad and worse, well, from a being outlook.

Except this was one dragon, who was also doing this to other dragons, including his own children, who being his children were dragons?

Does one murderer an entire race condemn?
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Amber Williams on May 09, 2011, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on May 09, 2011, 01:44:31 PM
One of the things I'm curious about is whether Dan is remembering an earlier conversation, or whether Cyra is talking to him in his head.  I'm tending towards the latter on the grounds that if she'd said this during their chat, Dan might not have been quite so mad afterwards.

It's the former.  I tried to subdue the colours to represent a flashback of sorts but I likely failed in that attempt. :/
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Kaerou on May 09, 2011, 04:57:47 PM
You didn't fail, I noticed and got it immediately. :)
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 09, 2011, 05:32:40 PM
Quote from: Kaerou on May 09, 2011, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: VAE on May 09, 2011, 12:04:17 AM
Also.. a good answer to anyone thinking dragons are the better alternative to cubi.. they are sortta.. bad and worse, well, from a being outlook.

Except this was one dragon, who was also doing this to other dragons, including his own children, who being his children were dragons?

Does one murderer an entire race condemn?

Well, except so far, 100% of the well known dragons are... (Hizell and M'Chek) (Pyroduck was raised by cubi, so doesn't count)
And as i think i have mentioned... even from a being perspective Cubi are sortta nicer simply because most of them are less powerful and so can be dealt with. Good luck doing that with a dragon.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Attic Rat on May 09, 2011, 07:48:38 PM
Oh, a flashback scene? I'd assumed Dan was imagining the grandmotherly Cyra speaking while he was reading her words from the history book. That worked, but a flashback works too.

So now we know of two kinds, among the inhabitants of Furrae, who consume souls.
And those two are at war. That actually makes sense. Real-World people's wars are often fought over resources both sides need.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Anker Steadfast on May 09, 2011, 08:13:50 PM
In short, Cyra went om nom nom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkU5692xefY), and then there was a big  ...
:explosion 
... and then everyone was all like D: and started chasing her all over the place ! amirite ?
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 09, 2011, 09:11:02 PM
Quote from: Mao Laoren on May 09, 2011, 07:51:13 AM
One other niggling point, and one that might not be of any consequence, but her clan leader page only says that others agree that it was her ascension that caused the war.  It does seem likely at this point, but the question I'd want answered before I agreed to it being the case 100% is "Do they have all of the facts?"  I'm sure I can get a large group of people to agree to anything if I doctor the facts to their liking and just make it plausible enough for them.  Doesn't mean that what I've told them is true or complete.  I'm not going to scream to the high heavens or debate the point, but the wording is just enough to give me a moments pause.

Indeed. Since we all know how Ambaargh likes twisting words to give us all the wrong impression...
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 09, 2011, 09:14:22 PM
Maybe... the way i see it at the moment  is a bit like WWI - the dragons were looking for an excuse to bring it on, the cubi perhaps as well, and Cyra sparked it, though really, someone blowing their nose could have.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: LoneHowler on May 10, 2011, 12:00:00 AM
Quote from: VAE on May 09, 2011, 03:45:39 AM

True, the "moved on" bit suggests an afterlife etc.
Makes me wonder about Devin.... i mean, his joints etc. are replaced... it is a possibility he got ressurected/zombified a fair bit of time after his physical death.
But then , if undead lack souls. it's irrelevant.


Sorry for the fail post I now edited it properly (I hope)

It was actualy in the comic a few arcs back just after Devin took the rumballs to Jryas house. There was a flashback to when he was a mindless zombie with limbs intact later in the arc it show how he lost them and got them gold plated
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Shachza on May 10, 2011, 12:06:03 AM
Why do you hate dragons so, Amber?  Every one that's not been cubi-fied has been ebil.  It's making me sad.   'A'
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 10, 2011, 12:08:39 AM
Quote from: Shachza on May 10, 2011, 12:06:03 AM
Why do you hate dragons so, Amber?  Every one that's not been cubi-fied has been ebil.  It's making me sad.   'A'
She really hates everyone... The good characters simply didn't get enough screentime to show their ebil ways yet.  :mwaha
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Amber Williams on May 10, 2011, 12:45:25 AM
Don't worry. Given enough time I will probably hate everything equally. :B
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: lilpuppy23 on May 10, 2011, 12:52:10 AM
Abel smiling actually worries me here and I am unsure why...
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Anker Steadfast on May 10, 2011, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: Amber Williams on May 10, 2011, 12:45:25 AM
Don't worry. Given enough time I will probably hate everything equally. :B

[spoiler]But ... that's so preediiiiiictable !!
Hate a few a whole lot more, and love the Mows ... and then at the last moment, declare your undying love for a toaster !![/spoiler]

That'll keep them guessing. :D
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: SquirrelWizard on May 10, 2011, 01:49:26 AM
Well to be honest, from Cyra's description the M'Chek wasn't absolutely evil. Yes, stealing souls of people is typically an evil act, but the dragon wasn't stomping on people (as far as we can tell from Cyra's recollection) to speed up their deaths. Instead he was merely siphoning off the souls of people who died within the city. So, even as the city's "harvester" he was actually vested in making sure the city was protected, and grew.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 10, 2011, 02:17:23 AM
I'm also pretty sure he made the trains run on time.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: McKathlin on May 10, 2011, 02:20:05 AM
Quote from: SquirrelWizard on May 10, 2011, 01:49:26 AM
Well to be honest, from Cyra's description the M'Chek wasn't absolutely evil. Yes, stealing souls of people is typically an evil act, but the dragon wasn't stomping on people (as far as we can tell from Cyra's recollection) to speed up their deaths. Instead he was merely siphoning off the souls of people who died within the city. So, even as the city's "harvester" he was actually vested in making sure the city was protected, and grew.

True.  I don't think we get a clear picture of whether the end result was a good thing.  But we do learn something of Cyra's motives: they weren't omnicidal, just power-hungry in an I-want-the-best-for-my-family sort of way.

By the way, I like the stylized history book illustrations, and I think that Cyra looks beautiful as an old woman.  And Dan's new look is turning out nicely.  You've got some serious artistic range, Amber.  Sorry that I ever doubted your changes.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Amber Williams on May 10, 2011, 05:12:44 AM
Quote from: lilpuppy23 on May 10, 2011, 12:52:10 AM
Abel smiling actually worries me here and I am unsure why...

Prolly cause its not a common Abel expression.  Abel tends to only smile when he's either being a snark or putting on a facade for others.  If my own memory is serving right, I don't think Abel's been genuinely happy since his mom died.

...yeeg that sounds morbid.   L:
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 10, 2011, 07:01:01 AM
Quote from: Anker Steadfast on May 10, 2011, 01:12:58 AM
That'll keep them guessing. :D

Well, not anymore it won't. Sheesh, I mean, if you want to give advice like that, at least put it behind a spoiler tag!
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: nevwyn on May 10, 2011, 08:28:40 AM
Quote from: Amber Williams on May 10, 2011, 05:12:44 AM
Quote from: lilpuppy23 on May 10, 2011, 12:52:10 AM
Abel smiling actually worries me here and I am unsure why...

Prolly cause its not a common Abel expression.  Abel tends to only smile when he's either being a snark or putting on a facade for others.  If my own memory is serving right, I don't think Abel's been genuinely happy since his mom died.

...yeeg that sounds morbid.   L:

See, see all this talk about cities and power mad rulers and most of you missed out the scariest thing in the entire comic!

That said *grabs Abel's tongue and kisses him on the nose* it confuses the heck out of my dog, bet it works on cubi's too  :mowmeep
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Anker Steadfast on May 10, 2011, 09:41:26 AM
Offcourse nose beeps work (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_648.php), Jyrras already prooved that. :)

Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 10, 2011, 07:01:01 AM
Quote from: Anker Steadfast on May 10, 2011, 01:12:58 AM
That'll keep them guessing. :D

Well, not anymore it won't. Sheesh, I mean, if you want to give advice like that, at least put it behind a spoiler tag!

That's a GREAT idea !
In fact, I'm gonna nick that idea and call it mine !

See my newly edited post, isn't it great ? :D
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Turnsky on May 10, 2011, 10:07:16 AM
Quote from: Amber Williams on May 10, 2011, 05:12:44 AM
Quote from: lilpuppy23 on May 10, 2011, 12:52:10 AM
Abel smiling actually worries me here and I am unsure why...

Prolly cause its not a common Abel expression.  Abel tends to only smile when he's either being a snark or putting on a facade for others.  If my own memory is serving right, I don't think Abel's been genuinely happy since his mom died.

...yeeg that sounds morbid.   L:

it's worked for bruce wayne.  :U

edit: on another note this might at least help Dan learn more about who he is, and to know that his family at least isn't incapable of regrets.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Alondro on May 10, 2011, 11:28:32 AM
Quote from: SquirrelWizard on May 10, 2011, 01:49:26 AM
Well to be honest, from Cyra's description the M'Chek wasn't absolutely evil. Yes, stealing souls of people is typically an evil act, but the dragon wasn't stomping on people (as far as we can tell from Cyra's recollection) to speed up their deaths. Instead he was merely siphoning off the souls of people who died within the city. So, even as the city's "harvester" he was actually vested in making sure the city was protected, and grew.

Exactly!  Just like the machines in "The Matrix" just harvested people's heat for energy!  And they weren't evil at... oh wait, they were.

Cubi + Dragons + demons = 100% Ebil. 
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 10, 2011, 11:32:29 AM
Quote from: Anker Steadfast on May 10, 2011, 09:41:26 AM
See my newly edited post, isn't it great ? :D

So much better. ;-]
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Anker Steadfast on May 10, 2011, 12:06:55 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 10, 2011, 11:32:29 AM
Quote from: Anker Steadfast on May 10, 2011, 09:41:26 AM
See my newly edited post, isn't it great ? :D

So much better. ;-]

Coming up with good ideas on how to use something (http://www.blastwave-comic.com/index.php?p=comic&nro=28) is half the fun then, eh ?
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Tilendor on May 10, 2011, 05:03:17 PM
Don't forget the dragon that was guarding DP's lair when Dan vanquished him last time, the one that Dan owed money to.  Didn't seem to be an evil dragon to me.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 10, 2011, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: Tilendor on May 10, 2011, 05:03:17 PM
Don't forget the dragon that was guarding DP's lair when Dan vanquished him last time, the one that Dan owed money to.  Didn't seem to be an evil dragon to me.
Only because to be evil you need to pass an aptitude test.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: LoneHowler on May 11, 2011, 05:29:07 AM
Because of a utter fail post earlier. *mutters "damn iPhone"* I bring links.
Devin was resurrected whole http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1181.php and had his arms later gold plated http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1182.php its actually the very next comic
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 11, 2011, 07:58:47 AM
Quote from: VAE on May 10, 2011, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: Tilendor on May 10, 2011, 05:03:17 PM
Don't forget the dragon that was guarding DP's lair when Dan vanquished him last time, the one that Dan owed money to.  Didn't seem to be an evil dragon to me.
Only because to be evil you need to pass an aptitude test.
Hey, now. There are other (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_598.php) examples (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_530.php).
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Psy-Kosh on May 11, 2011, 11:38:22 AM
Quote from: Grey Wolf on May 11, 2011, 07:58:47 AM
Hey, now. There are other (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_598.php) examples (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_530.php).

IIRC, the second example is actually supposed to be some type of mythos, and not a dragon.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Naldru on May 11, 2011, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: Amber Williams on May 10, 2011, 12:45:25 AM
Don't worry. Given enough time I will probably hate everything equally. :B
... except Fraggles (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_849.php) :goamber
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 11, 2011, 09:29:17 PM
One sidethought.

If Cyra has already been a triwing at this point, (the pic isn't *historically accurate* but who knows?) then this city takeover has happened during the dragon-cubi war.
Puts a different spin to it - she was essentially conquering territory and it all went wrong. Though, compare with any of the world wars we had.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Turnsky on May 12, 2011, 01:33:43 AM
Quote from: Naldru on May 11, 2011, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: Amber Williams on May 10, 2011, 12:45:25 AM
Don't worry. Given enough time I will probably hate everything equally. :B
... except Fraggles (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_849.php) :goamber

i still say That Amber thinks she's a fraggle and tries to subsist on nothing but doozer sticks.  :P

it explains so much
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Maark30 on May 12, 2011, 01:37:03 AM
Quote from: Grey Wolf on May 11, 2011, 07:58:47 AM
Quote from: VAE on May 10, 2011, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: Tilendor on May 10, 2011, 05:03:17 PM
Don't forget the dragon that was guarding DP's lair when Dan vanquished him last time, the one that Dan owed money to.  Didn't seem to be an evil dragon to me.
Only because to be evil you need to pass an aptitude test.
Hey, now. There are other (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_598.php) examples (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_530.php).

Burasi was a good example but the one on page 530 was a Cubi doing a Dragon shift.  I would think that the only real dragon that was in SAIA was Pyroduck, and he was sent to live with the Phoenix Oracles for his developing years (at least I doubt that Fa'lina actually raised him in SAIA).
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 12, 2011, 07:38:27 AM
Well, it is possible for a cubi and a dragon to have offspring (albeit highly unlikely in cannon, but hey, I'm sure someone's done it).
Personally, seeing as she raised a dragon as a son, I don't think Fa'lina would turn away a perfectly good teacher because of his/her/its race.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Attic Rat on May 12, 2011, 11:22:07 AM
Quote from: VAE on May 11, 2011, 09:29:17 PM
One sidethought.

If Cyra has already been a triwing at this point, (the pic isn't *historically accurate* but who knows?) then this city takeover has happened during the dragon-cubi war.
Puts a different spin to it - she was essentially conquering territory and it all went wrong. Though, compare with any of the world wars we had.

Good point, that part about conquering territory. That's how nations are created. If you can conquer and control a place, it's yours for as long as you can defend it.
From that point of view, Cyra's actions aren't evil. Poorly planned, maybe.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 12, 2011, 01:13:02 PM
Quote from: VAE on May 11, 2011, 09:29:17 PM
One sidethought.

If Cyra has already been a triwing at this point, (the pic isn't *historically accurate* but who knows?) then this city takeover has happened during the dragon-cubi war.
Puts a different spin to it - she was essentially conquering territory and it all went wrong. Though, compare with any of the world wars we had.

Does nobody read the comic? "this was widely considered to be what started the Cubi-Dragon war." doesn't seem to be much space to argue the point, there. She nuked him, and the war started. And she got tri-wing out of it, I think.

About on par with Germany invading Poland in the second world war, then declaring war afterwards, I think.


Quote from: Maark30 on May 12, 2011, 01:37:03 AM
Burasi was a good example but the one on page 530 was a Cubi doing a Dragon shift.  I would think that the only real dragon that was in SAIA was Pyroduck, and he was sent to live with the Phoenix Oracles for his developing years (at least I doubt that Fa'lina actually raised him in SAIA).

I hate to break it to you, but the big blue thing on page 530 has been identified as a mythos by Amber. If you give me a little time, I may even find a reference for you...
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: VAE on May 12, 2011, 01:38:05 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 12, 2011, 01:13:02 PM
Quote from: VAE on May 11, 2011, 09:29:17 PM
One sidethought.

If Cyra has already been a triwing at this point, (the pic isn't *historically accurate* but who knows?) then this city takeover has happened during the dragon-cubi war.
Puts a different spin to it - she was essentially conquering territory and it all went wrong. Though, compare with any of the world wars we had.

Does nobody read the comic? "this was widely considered to be what started the Cubi-Dragon war." doesn't seem to be much space to argue the point, there. She nuked him, and the war started. And she got tri-wing out of it, I think.

About on par with Germany invading Poland in the second world war, then declaring war afterwards, I think.



*sigh*

Good job on me being an imbecile/illiterate/both ... explains why the picture there is not historically accurate , too.
Thanks, boxy!
Though, that means she was able to kill a full-fledged dragon before gaining tri-wing... nice.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Alondro on May 12, 2011, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: Turnsky on May 12, 2011, 01:33:43 AM
Quote from: Naldru on May 11, 2011, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: Amber Williams on May 10, 2011, 12:45:25 AM
Don't worry. Given enough time I will probably hate everything equally. :B
... except Fraggles (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_849.php) :goamber

i still say That Amber thinks she's a fraggle and tries to subsist on nothing but doozer sticks.  :P

it explains so much

Well, I dunno about Doozer sticks, but Amber was subsisting almost entirely on Swedish Fish for a time.  :3

And, so far, Mows have not been evil.  *a day later, the Great Mow Invasion takes place, and all Furrae is left in ruins*
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 12, 2011, 03:36:27 PM
Quote from: VAE on May 12, 2011, 01:38:05 PM
Good job on me being an imbecile/illiterate/both ... explains why the picture there is not historically accurate , too.
Thanks, boxy!
Though, that means she was able to kill a full-fledged dragon before gaining tri-wing... nice.

Nah. Merely inattentive. ;-] Besides, you managed to spell illiterate. *grin*

And yes... I do wonder what she did to achieve it. Merely be extremely sneaky? That would be effective, and expected of Cubi. But... most Cubi would not be sneaky enough. So... given she didn't have the power when she started, and only gained it after defeating M'Chek... and M'Chek had the power he'd gained from harvesting souls from all the people in his city... and that it'd be a fairly large city, since safety draws people in... and that, in any city, there are at least a few people dying every day (and, obviously, being born, etc) even when things are calm and peaceful... how on earth did she defeat him? Sneak up behind him and knife him in the ribs? We can see how well that worked on Pyroduck.

Food for thought.
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Maark30 on May 12, 2011, 05:51:12 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 12, 2011, 01:13:02 PM
Quote from: VAE on May 11, 2011, 09:29:17 PM




Quote from: Maark30 on May 12, 2011, 01:37:03 AM
Burasi was a good example but the one on page 530 was a Cubi doing a Dragon shift.  I would think that the only real dragon that was in SAIA was Pyroduck, and he was sent to live with the Phoenix Oracles for his developing years (at least I doubt that Fa'lina actually raised him in SAIA).

I hate to break it to you, but the big blue thing on page 530 has been identified as a mythos by Amber. If you give me a little time, I may even find a reference for you...

No problem, I was just going against the idea that the teacher in question was a Dragon and not another species.  After having an OOlong in the library I expect that Mythos might just be a common non cubi member of SAIA Staff
Title: Re: 05/09/2011 [DMFA #1217] - So she nuked it , after all
Post by: Anker Steadfast on May 12, 2011, 07:58:10 PM
I suspect that Cyra could have had some artifact to help her out in the fight against M'Chek.
Maybe a dozer stick ....

... it would explain ... well, nothing at all !

:D