Hand to hand combat mastery indeed... :dface
Why do they call them "The Shadow Clan", though? Are they ninjas of rage? :3
Oh man, wish I knew about this character too weeks ago =p I ended up making my av character a mole because I wanted to do something other than a cat but I had a hard time envisioning what a mole furry would look like - I tried for an elongated snout, lack of ears, etc, but Amber did a much better job.
Of course, the claws seem a bit ridiculous - I wonder if they're shapeshifted? You wouldn't be able to write or hold things or anything with those things. They just seem overall quite cumbersome.
Love the design though - I wonder if she has being heritage? She's very natural colored aside from the green.
I think the claws and feet are fantastic. Imagine eating or picking stuff up with those hands. Probably takes some getting used to. I wonder if their eyes glow brighter the angrier they get.
Well, moles do have big claws... If they're normal sized, she could always use shapeshifting or tendrils to write or hold things.
I wouldn't say rage... The clan sounds like it values efficiency vs brute strength, and though mentioning combat, I wouldn't be surprised if they are their best at ending battles before they even start.
Even though not mentioned outright, I would guess they're almost like an assassin's guild: Taun takes care of overt threats, Owona takes care of hidden ones...
Just two thoughts: Thus far we've seen only female clan-leaders, and none of the clan leaders have visible clan markings (as far as we can tell). Is it possible that the dragons targetted the male and more obvious targets first?
Quote from: Kattuccino on March 23, 2010, 01:47:53 AM
Oh man, wish I knew about this character too weeks ago =p I ended up making my av character a mole because I wanted to do something other than a cat but I had a hard time envisioning what a mole furry would look like - I tried for an elongated snout, lack of ears, etc, but Amber did a much better job.
If you are looking for references, http://www.brokenplotdevice.com/ also has a similarly anthropomorphic mole character
I must say interesting clan symbol, it's a very unusual design. :3
I wonder if their glowing eyes make it hard to sneak up on people in the dark.......
"My what nice eyes you have there...."
"DANGIT!!" D:<
Edit: Failed Joke........ :sweatdrop
Quote from: Mrs_A_ZeTavia on March 23, 2010, 02:01:46 AM
I must say interesting clan symbol, it's a very unusual design. :3
I wonder if their glowing eyes make it hard to sneak up on people in the dark.......
"My what nice eyes you have there...."
"DANGIT!!" D:<
Unlike clan symbols, Clan traits can be hidden by shapeshifting.
For reference:
Cyra clan trait: Green eyes: http://missmab.com/Demo/Leader10.php
Destania shifting back from disguise: blue to green eyes: http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_873.php
Quote from: Psaakyrn on March 23, 2010, 02:03:21 AM
Quote from: Mrs_A_ZeTavia on March 23, 2010, 02:01:46 AM
I must say interesting clan symbol, it's a very unusual design. :3
I wonder if their glowing eyes make it hard to sneak up on people in the dark.......
"My what nice eyes you have there...."
"DANGIT!!" D:<
Edit: Failed Joke........ :sweatdrop
Unlike clan symbols, Clan traits can be hidden by shapeshifting.
For reference:
Cyra clan trait: Green eyes: http://missmab.com/Demo/Leader10.php
Destania shifting back from disguise: blue to green eyes: http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_873.php
:sweatdrop I already knew that, I was making a joke that obviously failed...........Now if you excuse me, I will go hide my shame at such joke.... :baghead
Main problem with that joke is that the topic starter beat you to it. :3
Quote from: Psaakyrn on March 23, 2010, 02:19:02 AM
Main problem with that joke is that the topic starter beat you to it. :3
True, let's rub in my failure more........ :sweatdrop
From this point on no more humor from me....... *raises hand in pledge*
Although, I must say it's refreshing to see more unusual rarely seen animals. Epic win for the mole! :mowhappy
Quote from: Psaakyrn on March 23, 2010, 02:03:21 AM
Quote from: Mrs_A_ZeTavia on March 23, 2010, 02:01:46 AM
I must say interesting clan symbol, it's a very unusual design. :3
I wonder if their glowing eyes make it hard to sneak up on people in the dark.......
"My what nice eyes you have there...."
"DANGIT!!" D:<
Unlike clan symbols, Clan traits can be hidden by shapeshifting.
For reference:
Cyra clan trait: Green eyes: http://missmab.com/Demo/Leader10.php
Destania shifting back from disguise: blue to green eyes: http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_873.php
I never noticed the eyes shifting! .. Probably cause I never realized his eyes were blue in the first place.
Do need more moles, I always think of Bakuryu/Kenji (Who is incidently a ninja mole). I think she looks rather lovely myself.
I never expect a mole be rageful but then again...If we all remember Sam & Max :B
Adventurer clans for the win.
On the topic of the rant, Dragon Age is a good game. I'd be playing it myself but my PS3 is currently off for repair (and by extension, broken)
The name is rather funny - Ovona used to be called a fruit drink (they do not produce it anymore)
Quote from: danman on March 23, 2010, 05:06:40 AM
The name is rather funny - Ovona used to be called a fruit drink (they do not produce it anymore)
Ovona? :erk Are you sure you read it right or have your spelling right? Because I believe it said "O
wona" on the Clan Leader page. Unless, you're referring to something completely different, then I apologize. :3
Quote from: Mrs_A_ZeTavia on March 23, 2010, 05:50:39 AM
Quote from: danman on March 23, 2010, 05:06:40 AM
The name is rather funny - Ovona used to be called a fruit drink (they do not produce it anymore)
Ovona? :erk Are you sure you read it right or have your spelling right? Because I believe it said "Owona" on the Clan Leader page. Unless, you're referring to something completely different, then I apologize. :3
But it still reads exactly the same, (and plenty of folk (like russians) would even transcribe it as the same thing)
That lends to an alternate motto for them - "We are not lemonade clan, we are spelled with W"
Quote from: danman on March 23, 2010, 06:12:22 AM
Quote from: Mrs_A_ZeTavia on March 23, 2010, 05:50:39 AM
Quote from: danman on March 23, 2010, 05:06:40 AM
The name is rather funny - Ovona used to be called a fruit drink (they do not produce it anymore)
Ovona? :erk Are you sure you read it right or have your spelling right? Because I believe it said "Owona" on the Clan Leader page. Unless, you're referring to something completely different, then I apologize. :3
But it still reads exactly the same, (and plenty of folk (like russians) would even transcribe it as the same thing)
That lends to an alternate motto for them - "We are not lemonade clan, we are spelled with W"
Ah, I see. :3
The shadier version of Taun. I think these are the...*gasp* Ninja's and Thieves and Rogues of the cubi!
It was neat to see this one come about. I'm really digging the eyes and the claws on this lady. :3
Definitely cute for a killer.
Moew! I just thoughtof it but
Taun is the armoured warriors and Owona is the feral warriors or Barberian (( this be a stupid comparison to WoW or DnD))
I'm really loving the mole. Not only are giant claws just essentialy awesome, that nose is rockin' too. And the outfit. Dang, she just looks cool. ^_^
The clan marking is a bit diffrent. So far, the clan marking shapes have been pretty organic with curving lines and circle-shapes. This marking, with a very pointy triangle and straight box-shapes seems almost artificial. I wonder if there is anything to that.
So... they are monks/Swordsages, as opposed to Taun's Fighters/Warblades? Or should I stop thinking in d20?
I'd think more along alignment-Lawful Taun vs. more Chaotic Owona... 'Course, that's speculative.
As another note, an army of Owona led by the more "tactical" Taun would be nasty to face.
Their specialization in shapeshifting would probably result in more than just the "stabby tentacles of doom..."
Woah, I suddenly imagined them fighting like the "Sandman." (The Spider-man villain.) That could be very bad very fast.
I guess when they poke you in the chest to make a point it's something quite literally in this clan. :kruger
I wonder if they like to erk the Zazzuzza clan, considering they like keeping their clan so secretive? :mowninja
I'm going to go on record and actually say that this one, so far, is my favorite Clan Leader. Taun was cool. Dimanika had some things that were awesome. Kish'ta? Definitely some things for me to love.
Owona? <3
...
What? I'm predictable in my likes.
Dare I suggest lesbian shenanigans between Taun and Owona?
Oh, I dare.
...omg I'm sorry it happened to Siar and Seme I couldn't get it out of my head. :c ANYWAY, Owona looks pretty darn cool. Amber draws moles extremely well. Big, beefy claws for the win - and semi-pacifistic clans for the win as well.
Them there eyes look great.
I think it should be "Owona the Weird." after all, the first thing I thought of when I saw her was Dimanika. I'm probably getting 5 negative marks for that one.
Quote from: Shachza on March 23, 2010, 01:47:22 PM
I think it should be "Owona the Weird." after all, the first thing I thought of when I saw her was Dimanika. I'm probably getting 5 negative marks for that one.
If only I could give multiple negatives.... -.-
(kidding, but I don't see what's so weird about her compared to the others)
Quote from: Mao Laoren on March 23, 2010, 02:20:25 PM
(kidding, but I don't see what's so weird about her compared to the others)
The only thing I find weird about her is that she looks comparatively ordinary when you put her next to Kish'Ta or Jin or others, come to think of it.
With that in mind, at least Owona doesn't look like
this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condylurini).
I agree with Mao that Owana looks cute.
Quote from: Keaton the Black Jackal on March 23, 2010, 02:32:20 PM
The only thing I find weird about her is that she looks comparatively ordinary when you put her next to Kish'Ta or Jin or others, come to think of it.
With that in mind, at least Owona doesn't look like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condylurini).
Hey now they're adorable.
Quote from: Psaakyrn on March 23, 2010, 01:59:03 AM
If you are looking for references, http://www.brokenplotdevice.com/ also has a similarly anthropomorphic mole character
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! I just went through their entire archives thanks to you!
I also have yet another (Although awesome!) comic I have to keep tabs on, now!
Welcome to the club. >:3
I'm guessing the clans main tactic is to toy with their enemies and act superior, as this usually is met with furious rage.
Also, I would totally hit that... cept for the claws that is >.>
It's a cool design, though nothing like I had thought a Rage clan would look like.
Ah well, it's still cool. :)
Quote from: Keaton the Black Jackal link=topic=7185.msg318163#msg318163
The only thing I find weird about her is that she looks comparatively ordinary when you put her next to Kish'Ta or Jin or others, come to think of it.
With that in mind, at least Owona doesn't look like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condylurini).
Oh yeeg. Owona is very adorable..but I would recoil in terror if she had a nose like that. :C
Anyways... Big. Paws n' Claws. Absolutely freaking awesome. :U
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 23, 2010, 02:42:54 PM
Quote from: Psaakyrn on March 23, 2010, 01:59:03 AM
If you are looking for references, http://www.brokenplotdevice.com/ also has a similarly anthropomorphic mole character
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! I just went through their entire archives thanks to you!
I also have yet another (Although awesome!) comic I have to keep tabs on, now!
You know you liked it. I sure enjoyed the passed 2 hours I spent over there.
Quote from: Mao Laoren on March 23, 2010, 02:20:25 PM
Quote from: Shachza on March 23, 2010, 01:47:22 PM
I think it should be "Owona the Weird." after all, the first thing I thought of when I saw her was Dimanika. I'm probably getting 5 negative marks for that one.
If only I could give multiple negatives.... -.-
(kidding, but I don't see what's so weird about her compared to the others)
I've always been weirded out by how moles look. Hands and feet way too big for their bodies... And now one as a 'cubi? In the immortal words of Dan: "Yeeg!"
Quote from: Professor Fate on March 23, 2010, 03:57:13 PM
Quote from: Keaton the Black Jackal link=topic=7185.msg318163#msg318163
The only thing I find weird about her is that she looks comparatively ordinary when you put her next to Kish'Ta or Jin or others, come to think of it.
With that in mind, at least Owona doesn't look like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condylurini).
Oh yeeg. Owona is very adorable..but I would recoil in terror if she had a nose like that. :C
Anyways... Big. Paws n' Claws. Absolutely freaking awesome. :U
Hey now. Star-nosed Moles are adorable! (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3358444)
I want to know why Taun and Owana get away with having the exact same emotional affinity... Yet neither actually seems to benefit from anger and rage, which, suprisingly, isn't usually involved in combat for anyone with less than a d12 HD.
Quote from: Scow2 on March 23, 2010, 07:02:06 PMI want to know why Taun and Owana get away with having the exact same emotional affinity... Yet neither actually seems to benefit from anger and rage, which, suprisingly, isn't usually involved in combat for anyone with less than a d12 HD.
(1) The affinity isn't the emotion displayed by the clan, so much as their favourite food. Thus the clan acts in ways that provoke
others into feeling the emotion. For instance, Kish'Ta's clan spends their time being frighten
ing not being frighten
ed.
(2) It doesn't seem to be the
exact same affinity. Taun's is listed as Anger/Rage, and given their more tactical inclination, they possibly prefer the more colder, drawn out anger of a prolonged confrontation, rather than the red hot flavour in the heat of battle. But close enough is good enough in a pinch and so the two clans can easily share from the same banquet.
Or something like that.
Amber, forget about the comic. Go play Dragon Age. It's all right. Really. We can wait for a month between updates. :P
That's three weeks of non-stop playing and one week of coma-like slumber to make up for all the sleep you didn't get in the first three.
Quote from: Greyman on March 23, 2010, 09:20:08 PM(2) It doesn't seem to be the exact same affinity. Taun's is listed as Anger/Rage, and given their more tactical inclination, they possibly prefer the more colder, drawn out anger of a prolonged confrontation, rather than the red hot flavour in the heat of battle. But close enough is good enough in a pinch and so the two clans can easily share from the same banquet.
Also, there's no rule that says two clans can't have the same affinity. It's known that Amber at least has two clans that are attuned to despair (one being Seme, the other being Que'tnar, which also has gratitude). Also, I noticed that, awhile back when describing a few Cubi in Abel's Story, she'd says things like 'this Cubi belongs to
a hope clan' (as opposed to
the hope clan). (http://dmfa.wikia.com/wiki/Que%27tnar_Clan)
Quote from: Scrap Fish on March 23, 2010, 11:08:05 AM
Woah, I suddenly imagined them fighting like the "Sandman." (The Spider-man villain.) That could be very bad very fast.
Off topic but did you see how sandman killed spiderman in marvel zombies?
If Owona fight like that there cleaning bill must be astronomical
It seems agreed that she is a mole. Another word for a spy. Shadowy indeed...
There are a lot of burrowing species out there though. Maybe she's a Meerkat? A Wombat? A Prairie Dog???
Maybe a Badger? They tend to be a bit heavy-set, but hey, a Cubi Badger with an appetite for rage??
That would be all sorts of fun.
Quote from: Mao Laoren on March 23, 2010, 06:59:42 AM
I'm really digging the eyes and the claws on this lady. :3
Those claws are made for digging... through armor and flesh. :kruger
The world needs more sexy moles. >:3
Quote from: Attic Rat on March 24, 2010, 02:19:50 AM
It seems agreed that she is a mole. Another word for a spy. Shadowy indeed...
There are a lot of burrowing species out there though. Maybe she's a Meerkat? A Wombat? A Prairie Dog???
Maybe a Badger? They tend to be a bit heavy-set, but hey, a Cubi Badger with an appetite for rage??
That would be all sorts of fun.
When she was asking for races to make this one during the webcast (both actually) I do believe both a Meerkat and a Badger were suggested and rejected. I had actually suggested Badger too, but yeah.. it was a no go. I think it came down to Mole, Hyena, Horse and....urg.. the last one eludes me. There were four that she was really leaning towards. Mole won, as you can see and honestly, I think it looks great.
Quote from: Mao Laoren on March 24, 2010, 06:01:47 AM
When she was asking for races to make this one during the webcast (both actually) I do believe both a Meerkat and a Badger were suggested and rejected. I had actually suggested Badger too, but yeah.. it was a no go. I think it came down to Mole, Hyena, Horse and....urg.. the last one eludes me. There were four that she was really leaning towards. Mole won, as you can see and honestly, I think it looks great.
A hyena was among the choices? Aw man, I love hyenas. I hope she draws one in the future.
Quote from: Keaton the Black Jackal on March 24, 2010, 11:33:21 AM
A hyena was among the choices? Aw man, I love hyenas. I hope she draws one in the future.
Yeah it was. I kept making 'Mufasa' jokes when I heard it.
Lion King for the win. XD
Also... I'm with everyone on the ninja thing. In her picture, it looks like she's stepping into a pool of shadows, or maybe its the opening to a secret pocket dimension... Either way, it's certainly something shadowy and hidden. From that perspective, it even looks like she's waving goodbye as she goes. o_O
Quote from: Morgan on March 24, 2010, 11:57:34 AM
Lion King for the win. XD
Also... I'm with everyone on the ninja thing. In her picture, it looks like she's stepping into a pool of shadows, or maybe its the opening to a secret pocket dimension... Either way, it's certainly something shadowy and hidden. From that perspective, it even looks like she's waving goodbye as she goes. o_O
It does, doesn't it? I viewed them as more monk, rogue, thief types, but I can see how the 'ninja' is the first thing that comes to most people's mind. I mostly thought of monks due to the tendency towards hand to hand in that type of character.
I guess by "ninja" I really meant assassin, or something like it. Ninja is just way cooler of a word to use and whenever I think of it, I imagine making cool Bruce Lee noises and chopping the air with the sides of my hands...
Anyway. You're right, the hand to hand is certainly a monkish aspect, except that generally monks have some sort of moral, lawful code they abide by. Which I suppose has yet to be proved or disproved as being an aspect of the clan. They're quite ambiguous and seem to like it that way.
This is my new favorite clan o.o
Quote from: starcat5 on March 24, 2010, 04:43:28 AM
The world needs more sexy moles. >:3
I agree so much
Quote from: Wanderer on March 23, 2010, 10:36:14 PM
Amber, forget about the comic. Go play Dragon Age. It's all right. Really. We can wait for a month between updates. :P
. . .
Speak for yourself. I need my weekly fix. :3
Cool to see some uncommon animal represented. :)
Quote from: Mao Laoren on March 24, 2010, 06:01:47 AM
Quote from: Attic Rat on March 24, 2010, 02:19:50 AM
It seems agreed that she is a mole. Another word for a spy. Shadowy indeed...
There are a lot of burrowing species out there though. Maybe she's a Meerkat? A Wombat? A Prairie Dog???
Maybe a Badger? They tend to be a bit heavy-set, but hey, a Cubi Badger with an appetite for rage??
That would be all sorts of fun.
When she was asking for races to make this one during the webcast (both actually) I do believe both a Meerkat and a Badger were suggested and rejected. I had actually suggested Badger too, but yeah.. it was a no go. I think it came down to Mole, Hyena, Horse and....urg.. the last one eludes me. There were four that she was really leaning towards. Mole won, as you can see and honestly, I think it looks great.
Indeed it does, and teaming them up with Taun was tactically brilliant. Every military force needs sappers and infiltrators.
So, excellent artwork and fine military planning... together!
Quote from: Morgan on March 24, 2010, 12:20:05 PMAnyway. You're right, the hand to hand is certainly a monkish aspect, except that generally monks have some sort of moral, lawful code they abide by. Which I suppose has yet to be proved or disproved as being an aspect of the clan. They're quite ambiguous and seem to like it that way.
That's why warrior monks, who had lost their original purpose, would often act like a fallen samurai and walk the meifumadō (the road to hell / the road to vengeance). During which they could often diverge significantly from their normal behaviour. Even to the point of being assassins.
Offcourse, most Warrior Monks embraced Bushido(way of the Warrior), much the same way the Samurai did.
In fact, you could say the main difference in a Warrior Monk and a Samurai is their choice of weapon and choice of master.
A Warrior Monk has a clerical member of a temple as his master (like the local Buddhist abbot equivalent), and Buddha as his ultimate master, and most used Naginatas (blade-onna-stick), though swords, bows and other weapons was used as well. During peacetime they were sometimes drafted as peacekeepers/police and many then carried a staff or other blunt weapon. Which is why many think that monks do not use bladed weapons. Which is wrong offcourse. Though they were quite proficient with most weapons and Hand to Hand combat as well. Think of Warrior Monks as the Teutonic Knights, a holy army that was controlled by the temples.
A Samurai has a Noble as his Master, and the Shogun as his ultimate master (sometimes subverted when a noble wanted to be the new shogun) and would usually prefer bladed weapons, though some wielded other weapons such as spears. They originally had to arm themselves and in return was exempted from taxes, though often it was the noble that hired them that armed them instead. Even so, they were often fairly well paid. They were obviously the army of the nobles.
As for armor, they would both use much the same armor, such as the Ō-yoroi (Great Armor), if they had the money for it.
Often the shrine which the monks worked for didn't have enough money for good armor, and thus monks often wore less armor than a Samurai would, and in extreme cases would wear nothing but a robe, wielding a bamboo staff.
Now - Put this in contrast with the DMFA universe, and we see why Cubi is so feared, they have both their armor and their weapons in their wings, for no price at all and they can transform from being a friendly nonthreatening target, to being a shrieking horror of fangs and claws in seconds. They have no need for any fancy weapons or armor, and they act on their own, with no responsibility to any local lord but their own clan leader - whom is also a cubi, and might be just as dangerous for you.
And so we are back to the Clan Leader of this thread - Would you really want to be near someone with such big claws when you know her affinity is
rage ?
I don't think any folks here had any illusions about them using weapons, but in general they were peaceful and tried to avoid the use of weapons that could kill. In fact, they tended towards weapons that did not due to most of their philosophies placing a very high value on life. They were not stupid though. They often had guard duties, as you mentioned, which often brought them in contact with bandits who would not think twice about killing them. In most cases their beliefs teach them to value all life. Including their own.
I should also point out that the Teutonic Knights aren't quite a good analogy. They were often well armed (particularly in the later years of their existence in the middle ages, though they eventually lost their purpose and fell from there) and had the backing of a very strong financial organization: The Roman Catholic Church. They also had Sister Orders who would help supply them (See the Knights Templar) and had no qualms hiring mercenaries and would often swell their numbers with new recruits when times arose. They were a church army. The monks were not intended to be used as an army. Though both organizations started out with humble beginnings, the Catholic Knightly orders very quickly rose to Army Statuses, to the point where they both started essentially trying to create their own Nations/States and declare themselves sovereign.
Also: Their affinity is rage. This doesn't mean that they are prone to rage. It means that, in general, they like to feed on it.
Warrior Monks were most certainly used as armies.
There's a big difference on Warrior Monks and the monks that was village healers and the likes.
In fact, they come from the mass of MOBs during periods political unrest between different religions, much like the warrior monks of the Catholic church.
The reason that the temples hired them in the first place, was to keep their shrines safe from unruly mobs.
And just because some of the warrior monks was badly armed, didn't mean all of them were.
Some were just as well equipped as the noble samurais or even, the Teutonic Knights.
And not all western monk orders were as well armed as the Teutonic Knights either.
The warrior monks of asia is a very, very close analogy to the warrior monks of europe.
The biggest difference, is probably that there was a little less factions in europe as a result of the late roman empire.
Whereas a lot of the asian Warrior Monks was connected to a local shrine and not allowed to leave that.
And there was a *lot* of shrines, so when a big conflict came you pooled them together and hey presto, you had an army.
Quote from: Anker Steadfast on March 26, 2010, 10:42:48 AM
Warrior Monks were most certainly used as armies.
They were USED as armies, but that wasn't what their purpose was. Nor did I say they weren't used as armies.
Their original intent was simply to protect the shrines, as you said. The European Orders, admittedly, started out that way (as well as to protect pilgrims and the like, same as the Eastern Orders).. but that changed pretty quickly. To the point where some of them were strong enough to try and branch off and try and declare sovereign (both the Teutonic Knights and the Templars tried that, iirc.. neither succeeded). They were so entrenched in the economies, armies, government and church that it's a surprise, to me at least, that they didn't become sovereign.
Quote
There's a big difference on Warrior Monks and the monks that was village healers and the likes.
In fact, they come from the mass of MOBs during periods political unrest between different religions, much like the warrior monks of the Catholic church.
The reason that the temples hired them in the first place, was to keep their shrines safe from unruly mobs.
I don't disagree with that at all. The big difference, to me, comes in the next point. The issues of scale, intent and degree of financing.
Quote
And just because some of the warrior monks was badly armed, didn't mean all of them were.
Some were just as well equipped as the noble samurais or even, the Teutonic Knights.
And not all western monk orders were as well armed as the Teutonic Knights either.
We weren't comparing all western monk orders. We were talking about the Teutonic Knights. I objected to the comparison of them to the eastern orders in general. I'm well aware that some of the warrior monks were well armed. On average though? The shrines were *not* that well armed. The Teutonic Knights (and their sister order, the Templars) were on average *very* well armed. Better than some of the armies of the Noble class.
Quote
The warrior monks of asia is a very, very close analogy to the warrior monks of europe.
I disagree simply on a matter of scale and intent. The European Orders were *massive* and very quickly became a militant force of conversion in the name of the Church, as well as a vast sprawling financial organization (in the case of the Templars particularly). Beyond that, in their early days, even before the heavy endorsement of the church the orders received a good deal of backing from nobles either by their 'banking' system or through 'donations' that were encouraged due to societal pressures to be good Christians.
Quote
The biggest difference, is probably that there was a little less factions in europe as a result of the late roman empire.
Whereas a lot of the asian Warrior Monks was connected to a local shrine and not allowed to leave that.
And there was a *lot* of shrines, so when a big conflict came you pooled them together and hey presto, you had an army.
That, to me, is a big difference though. Once the conflict went away, they went back to their shrines. They didn't become a massive sprawling organization. They didn't stay a massive army. It took the combined will of the European Nobles and Church to take apart the orders. Even then, some of them still exist and are considerable in power and scale.
To me, it's like comparing a local militia to the actual military.
Quote from: Mao Laoren on March 26, 2010, 11:13:33 AM
They were USED as armies, but that wasn't what their purpose was. Nor did I say they weren't used as armies.
Their original intent was simply to protect the shrines, as you said. The European Orders, admittedly, started out that way (as well as to protect pilgrims and the like, same as the Eastern Orders).. but that changed pretty quickly. To the point where some of them were strong enough to try and branch off and try and declare sovereign (both the Teutonic Knights and the Templars tried that, iirc.. neither succeeded). They were so entrenched in the economies, armies, government and church that it's a surprise, to me at least, that they didn't become sovereign.
The Teutonic knights state lasted in what's modern day East Prussia for 299 years, and was never officially conquered. (The grand master, Albrecht of Brandenburg, re-worked it into a secular duchy and incorporated it into his family's other holdings around Berlin in the early 16th century.)
It's interesting how history often turns out with some of the best histories we know of. :)
And monastic warriors (warrior monks, knights, paladins, etc.) are the stuff of legends ... literally!
I'm wondering how much history has played a role in DMFA ?
I'm sure there must be at least some influences there ?
Has Amber ever mentioned something like it ?
I mean, the clan of Owona does come across more alike to the "guardians of a shrine" order, while Taun's does seem a bit "Knights of the Order" kind of inspired ? Perhaps it's a Sword and Shield kind of setup ? Owona being the weapon, and Taun being the Shield ?
Or maybe I'm simply reading too much into it ?
I mean, think of it - Both of the clan leaders have been living for a good while, and must have created some pretty impressive organisations to back them up. which makes me think they might have more than just cubi attached, perhaps ordinary beings to handle most of the ordinary logistical support ? After all, if they don't have to fight, a being is almost as good as a fully fledged cubi at lugging around stuff.
Some really interesting connections between cubi and beings could happen that way.
Especially when you consider that they can have children together!
Clan Taun isn't any religious order of knights... I like to think of them as the 'cubi Codex Astartes. Which are a religious order of knights that kick a lot more ass.