this is an ongoing annoyance i rant about anytime someone complains about a headache or a mild ache or pain. when will the over-medication end? medicine for this, pills for that, patches and sprays and lotions and injections and creams and on and on and on and on!!
i rarely take medicine for anything, i have an immune system and i happily use it, but everywhere else i go i hear whining about each little thing.
"i have a headache, i need Tylenol and ibuprofen and fever reducers and a prescription!"
"...or you could try not to stare at the computer screen and TV for eight hours at a time?"
when did the natural immune system go out of style and how much unnecessary medicine is too much?
gonna need a band-aid after i bite all those doctors >.>
I don't know how this is a problem; the human immune system I think has pretty much been the same as long ago. Except, we now have a lower death rate because of modern medicine. :P
tylenol owns, i disagree with your post
never asked for agreement, just for thoughts on it
if you feel that taking medicine for every little ache and twinge and annoyance, go for it. i just want to know if shelves upon shelves of medicine bottles in everyones home is necessary, or if we may possibly be getting carried away with the "ask your doctor for these medicines". and yes, Tylenol is awesome...on the rare occasions i break down and take one or ten :P
It's not necessary, but living your life with only the things that are "necessary" is a pretty stupid idea.
I only take medicine when I'm sick enough so I can barely do anything.
I don't even remember the last time I took something for a simple pain relief. I'm a tough bastard... I like it better to recover on my on instead of sticking chemicals on my on body for anything
yes, someone else that relies on their own body to do it's thing. :)
i just can't understand how people fall into such a dependency for these kinds of things. the miracle drug, the purple pill, the all-purpose patch, the once-a-day, etc. the commercials for all the weird and possibly non-existent diseases aren't helping things, and the dozens of different brands for the same medicine baffles me too. Everyone thinks they're sick with something at any given time and the few that really are, are just numbers to scare the rest into buying more drugs and more pills. humanity sucks, but when did it get so weak?
I think I read somewhere about one type of pill being useless, and that you only get better because you think you are. I think it was aspirin.
I haven't taken medicine in months. The last few things I took did more hurt than harm. I'm convinced that one of them screwed with my body a bit, but I won't say why. (If you're that curious, go ahead and PM and ask.) Can't really remember what the others were, but one was for runny noses. Oh god, squirting that shit up my nose burned like hell. I'd rather have the friggin' runny nose than have my nose "on fire" for 20 minutes.
I'm also pretty much immune to anesthetics. I need the strong stuff when I have a dentist appointment. :< Another reason I don't trust doctors and dentists and medicine...Hah, like I'd want to trust anyone who handles needles. *Has a needle phobia*
I take what I need to survive.
I have a hiatal hernia, for which surgery is a poor option. It gives me severe acid reflux. I take PPI's or other acid-blockers to keep myself from getting Barret's esophagus, a precursor to esophageal cancer.
I also have anaphylaxis to mold on any food I eat (I cannot eat mushrooms either). Letting my immune system fix that is not an issue because my immune system's over-the-top response to harmless antigens is the prolem! So, I take Benadryl when I feel I've been exposed to mold and thus I don't risk dying in excruciating pain.
Medicine is not bad. People just seriously over-use it in many cases.
Quote from: blood butterfly on April 01, 2008, 06:46:19 PM
yes, someone else that relies on their own body to do it's thing. :)
i just can't understand how people fall into such a dependency for these kinds of things. the miracle drug, the purple pill, the all-purpose patch, the once-a-day, etc. the commercials for all the weird and possibly non-existent diseases aren't helping things, and the dozens of different brands for the same medicine baffles me too. Everyone thinks they're sick with something at any given time and the few that really are, are just numbers to scare the rest into buying more drugs and more pills. humanity sucks, but when did it get so weak?
You're acting like this is something new.
People have always been taking medicine. The difference now is that it works, thanks to standards, the scientific method, and modern chemical engineering. If I "let my body do it's thing", I'd have 20/200 vision.
Quote from: Dak on April 01, 2008, 06:56:21 PM
I think I read somewhere about one type of pill being useless, and that you only get better because you think you are. I think it was aspirin.
Asprin is not a placebo. Some people are resistant to it, but asprin works.
oh, it's not that medicine is bad. medicine is supposed to HELP with a sickness or disease...not remedy it instantly which has become the expectation today. taking something for a headache when you're down for a week with a cold is ok...taking seven different medicines in the hopes it'll cure it all isn't. sure, some medications help make life easier, but only to a degree.
it's not the use that annoys me, though i try to avoid drugs in general, it's the overuse and misuse that gets me a-ranting.
Meh diss sin...?
Why do so many people miss the point. Medicine is good, it can cure a lot of what ails us, it has considerably extended the average life span of those in countries where it is affordable and available. No one ever said otherwise.
The problem that people(myself included) see is that lots of people take medicine without it being effective. People would rather be perscribed a pill(whether it'll do anything or not) when they visit the doctor than be told it's just a cold and they'll be over it in a week.
I agree that lots of people take drugs when they don't need them. I don't take drugs if I can avoid it. Only a few times in my life can I look back and say that I took something, and thsoe times were times where I was too sick to do anything other than lie on the couch, wrapped in blankets, curled up into a ball of misery and snot. (or that time I had all my wisdom teeth removed in a single surgical procedure, weee vicodin! also amoxacilin to prevent infection)
As for drugs that don't work... All drugs sold in the USA must pass clinical trials and be approved by the FDA before they can be sold. Every drug that is sold must have a provable effect that outweighs risks of side effects. Perhaps you are thinking of homeopathic 'cures', which fall in to the same catagory as vitamins and health supliments thanks to certain laws passed on behalf of lobyists for the health suppliment producers, and don't have to go through FDA testing. Those have been shown time and again to have no effect beyond that of placebo... probably owing to the fact that you have a very small chance of having a single molecule of the active incredient in a homeopathic preparation. (10x means 1 part active ingredient, 10^10 parts water, 10c means 1 part active ingredient, 100^10 parts water)
*Charles would say something about the incredible effectiveness of what he is working on patenting... but he ain't that stupid!*
There are industrial spies everywhere! :paranoid
Quote from: Jack McSlay on April 01, 2008, 05:18:07 PM
I only take medicine when I'm sick enough so I can barely do anything.
I take that approach too. Then I learned I was allergic to the medicine in question, and then experienced new states of barely do anything.(Can't concentrate because of the headache? Trust me, can't stand up is worse)
As terrible as everybody thinks it is to say, we need to let some of these people die. I mean give them a fair chance at life first, but really our planet is already overpopulating. This is causing countless other problems, but no government discusses it because there is no fair way to choose who dies. Either start mass killings or limit the number of children each couple can have or there will be too many people in just a few generations. And don't think this doesn't impact me. If there ever was a limit on the number of children a couple could have I never would have existed. I've thought about this and I've decided my existance is worth the Earth's.
Quote from: Rakala on April 02, 2008, 10:18:32 AM
As terrible as everybody thinks it is to say, we need to let some of these people die. I mean give them a fair chance at life first, but really our planet is already overpopulating. This is causing countless other problems, but no government discusses it because there is no fair way to choose who dies. Either start mass killings or limit the number of children each couple can have or there will be too many people in just a few generations. And don't think this doesn't impact me. If there ever was a limit on the number of children a couple could have I never would have existed. I've thought about this and I've decided my existance is worth the Earth's.
ok you start, we'll watch
seriously if you think mass killings is an acceptable solution for population growth you are really dumb
and we know how well limiting the number of children worked for China...
Quote from: Reese Tora on April 02, 2008, 12:13:06 PM
and we know how well limiting the number of children worked for China...
Actually, now that they've enforced it more strongly, China's growth rate has plummeted and now India is going to pass China's population in a few years!
And mass killing is perfectly acceptable once you accept socialism. It worked for Stalin! It's all for the greater good... :mwaha
Quote from: BillBuckner on April 02, 2008, 12:11:10 PM
seriously if you think mass killings is an acceptable solution for population growth you are really dumb
I think we should kill all Nascar fans. And sports fans too. They don't do anything important anyway!
Who's with me? :P
Quote from: Rakala on April 02, 2008, 10:18:32 AM
As terrible as everybody thinks it is to say, we need to let some of these people die. I mean give them a fair chance at life first, but really our planet is already overpopulating. This is causing countless other problems, but no government discusses it because there is no fair way to choose who dies. Either start mass killings or limit the number of children each couple can have or there will be too many people in just a few generations. And don't think this doesn't impact me. If there ever was a limit on the number of children a couple could have I never would have existed. I've thought about this and I've decided my existance is worth the Earth's.
I can't help but agree. But then again, I think that people who need surgery to survive or need it for some other dumb reason (*Cough*Juliana Wetmore*Cough*) need to...well...be put down. Especially if they're just being used for attention on the internet.
And killin' drunks and criminals wouldn't hurt either. But that's just my opinion. (But my opinion will
always be better than Bill's.)
First off, about the over-medication of people, I completely agree. Honestly, I can say I haven't taken a single Aspirin, Tylenol or any other stupid pain-relief stuff. The only drug I have had to take in my life were some Lidocaine, when I was getting some teeth pulled.
Other than that, the only other things that I have used that could *possibly* fit in with drugs/medicines would be some clove oil, which I used for a while the day before I needed to get my teeth pulled(Cracked tooth + tiny stone in a carrot = PAIN), and some more or less natural Burt's Bees lip balm(When I was on vacation, I really needed it, and it actually worked very well).
Not that I haven't gotten myself hurt quite a bit. I guess I have a relatively high pain threshold.
FDA wise, I wouldn't blindly trust them - There have been plenty of cases where a big company has gotten a product passed by them, which later turns out to be dangerous.
Homeopathic medicine wise, its true that some stuff doesn't work, because the quantity of active ingredient is way too small - But that argument can also be used on drugs and conventional medicines, when either the active ingredient isn't in a easily/at all digestible form, or the pill simply doesn't dissolve in your gut, meaning you get absolutely no value from it.
Heck, you also have to be careful with vitamins, as a lot of them are chemically produced and therefor have half right-hand and half left-handed molecules, and your body can only digest right-handed ones, which means that you are only getting half the value out of it, if the left-handed ones don't cause other problems.
I figure that, with *any* medicine, drug, or vitamin, you have to actually read whats in it, in quantity, and look it up online. You should be able to figure out if it will help you, harm you, or what.
-RobbieThe1st
Quote from: RobbieThe1st on April 03, 2008, 02:32:25 AMFDA wise, I wouldn't blindly trust them - There have been plenty of cases where a big company has gotten a product passed by them, which later turns out to be dangerous.
Trust to find side effects, no. Trust to require the stated effect to exist, yes. If, perhaps, the mass production method used after approval negates the effects, that's out of the scope of approval.
Quote from: RobbieThe1st on April 03, 2008, 02:32:25 AMHomeopathic medicine wise, its true that some stuff doesn't work, because the quantity of active ingredient is way too small - But that argument can also be used on drugs and conventional medicines, when either the active ingredient isn't in a easily/at all digestible form, or the pill simply doesn't dissolve in your gut, meaning you get absolutely no value from it.
Well... if it isn't dilute, it's not homeopathic. The basic premise of Homeopathy is that small amounts of what causes symptoms in a healthy subject will cure said symptoms in a sick subject. As such, Homeopathy believes that the more dilute a preparation, the more potent it is. Basic practice is to dilute the substance in 10 parts water to create a 1x solution, repeat nine more times for a 10x solution, and twenty more for a total of 30 for a 30x solution. This can even be repeated a total of 100 times to create a 100x solution.
(note, there's also 1c 10c 100c, etc... in this version, it's diluted in 1 part per 100 instead of 1 part per 10) Oh, and multiple active ingredients are diluted seperately, so become more dilute when mixed
As such, that means a 10x solution is one part active ingredient to 10^10 parts water. That's 1:10,000,000,000. you're more likely to find preparations with 30x or 100x. There's less than one molecule of "active" ingredient per cc of solution(if it can be called a solution at that point) at 30x.
Of course, the secret to Homeopathy is that when you mix a dilution, you have to shake it just
so. (Three shakes back and forth, three shakes side to side, I swear I'm not making this up.)
Aspririn is kinda homeopathic. It's the same active ingredient found in willow bark, and is chemically related to methyl salicylate found in wintergreen. :3
I'm allergic to it. I will die if I take it. :< I take Tylenol once in a great while if I have a headache that is excessive or if I have a fever to help lower it and deal with over-inflammation.
But then, being in the biomed field, I know everything about medication so I know what is and isn't good to do. :3
Quote from: Alondro on April 03, 2008, 11:42:04 AM
I'm allergic to it. I will die if I take it. :<
this is very useful information
Quote from: BillBuckner on April 03, 2008, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: Alondro on April 03, 2008, 11:42:04 AM
I'm allergic to it. I will die if I take it. :<
this is very useful information
I will also die if I take Dristan, Penicillin, or eat mushrooms/molds.
Also, I will die if dropped from a plane onto large pointy spikes. :<
I think that last one is a fairly common reaction.
Omeprazole 20 mg.
Back before this drug you used to see LOTS of people over 35 that could eat little more than milk and toast due to SEVERE heartburn. These people couldn't even really tolerate much salt or black pepper.
Now we have a cheap and effective drug that makes the bad old days History.
I pick this pill over an extreme limited diet.
Wurd.
GERD is suxxorz.
Waking up in the middle of the night gagging on the sea of acid belching up into your esophagus, which you then inhale into your lungs where it burns and leaves you hacking and gasping.
Give me da drugs!
A follow up, here's two very good explanations on the premises behind Homeopathy and how it is practiced.
From a BBC pecial that apears to be well researched(part 1 of 5, but this contains the basics):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozfio_e1Xj0
Also, a good explanation with a description of the four laws of homeopathy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U
Sounds EXACTLY like Sympathetic Magic.
Quote from: Jack McSlay on April 01, 2008, 05:18:07 PM
I only take medicine when I'm sick enough so I can barely do anything.
I don't even remember the last time I took something for a simple pain relief. I'm a tough bastard... I like it better to recover on my on instead of sticking chemicals on my on body for anything
I'm about the same way. I do take meds daily for other reasons but I don't like to take meds because I have a headache . I usually goes away after a good night sleep.:ipod
Hey Doc! When I shake my head, it hurts!
*Doc* Then don't shake your head.
xD
Quote from: Alondro on April 22, 2008, 11:24:38 AM
Hey Doc! When I shake my head, it hurts!
*Doc* Then don't shake your head.
xD
made my day!
acording to the fda natural medicines like vinegar and calcium can't be sold as a drug because it is not patentable, therefore it cannot be a drug and is then a hoax. even though it isn't. for instance a couple had apparently found ancient recipe to make diet bread that worked but because it couldn't be patented they were shut down.
i love the fact that people are trying to fight most serious diseases, i love the fact that most of these people are winning, i just hate it when the actual cure can't be used because the government needs to make it's money.
A few years ago (less than 10), some drug company came up with a flu medicine that was supposed to help prevent the flu... The problem? The drug had the EXACT symptoms as the FLU!! Now, can anyone tell me why someone in their right mind would want to take a drug that would give you the same symptoms as the virus you are taking the drug for??!! Yeah, that's really effective... :rolleyes
Speaking of drugs - how about all of the over-medicated kids because of ADD/ADHD. The teachers don't want to deal with them. Maybe the real reason isn't the fact they have some kind of disorder, maybe they are too smart & are bored... Or maybe they can't stand sitting in their desk... People only want a quick fix, not caring about the long term affects.
One more thing I want to add, that I'm proud of myself for not doing, are the women in labor who insist on having an Epidural. These women are the women who complain about others not experiencing "natural child birth", yet get drugs so they can't feel a thing. That's NOT natural child birth. If you can't feel anything below your waist, it's not natural anymore... I only had something equivalent to Tylenol, to let me get an hour or so of rest. The second dose didn't even work. I felt everything. I personally thought it wasn't that bad. **TMI moment** I think constipation is FAR worse than giving birth to a child - atleast the birth canal stretches!! I plan on not having anything stronger than Tylenol for the birth of Mia - just like I did for Eowyn.
There's also sooo many ads on the TV for drugs, the commercials don't even tell you what the drug is for - just says "ask your doctor about *blank* drug" *shakes head*
Quote from: gh0st on April 27, 2008, 01:08:17 AM
Quote from: Alondro on April 22, 2008, 11:24:38 AM
Hey Doc! When I shake my head, it hurts!
*Doc* Then don't shake your head.
xD
made my day!
acording to the fda natural medicines like vinegar and calcium can't be sold as a drug because it is not patentable, therefore it cannot be a drug and is then a hoax. even though it isn't. for instance a couple had apparently found ancient recipe to make diet bread that worked but because it couldn't be patented they were shut down.
i love the fact that people are trying to fight most serious diseases, i love the fact that most of these people are winning, i just hate it when the actual cure can't be used because the government needs to make it's money.
Of course, thanks to the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, anything, effective or not, dangerous or not, can but put on the market as a 'supplement' and nothing can be done until people start dying or complaining.
So far as Vinegar or Calcium being any sort of natural cure, I wouldn't trust anything that isn't written up in a medical journal. Lots of people write books saying this or that and "things the governemtn doesn't want you to know", but all too often the author is doing no research, just making stuff up or parroting folk lore. Why? because they can sell books, it deosn't ahve to work, it just has to appeal to people who are willing to buy in to silly conspiracy theories.
but I do believe those silly conspiracy theories, why? because as much as i love this government it could always be better, i search them out in hopes of thinking of a way to fix it instead of just tearing the whole thing into the open. sure the fda probably has stuff in our food, sure it might also be making drugs that harm more than they cure, and if you really think about it that isn't much different to the cure alls that went through the 30's. it can be easily fixed with a redraft of a law or an amendment to something, the only problem is nobody wants to do it because it takes too long and costs alot of money, not to mention sets people up to be sued and lose money.
Uhm, too much vinegar is actually very bad for you. It gave my mom a massive uric acid stone called a staghorn calculus which nearly shut down one of her kidneys.
Too much calcium, also bad, especially if you don't have enough vitamin D to trigger normal calcium homeostasis.
The body can only take so much of these things.
It's like the whole vitamin E thing. Now a huge study has found that not only does mega-dosing vitamin E seem to do nothing for most people, it may even be harmful! And that's not the 9000 EUs some people were taking that put them in comas a while back, this was just 400 per day.
You only need about 50 or so a day of vitamin E.
Now vitamin D is something most people need more of. Being indoors all the time, especially in winter, drastically lowers the levels to far below physiological norms. Vitamin pills actually provide far less than what the skin can manufacture in just 15 minutes of exposure to summer sunlight (UV light is crucial to the breaking of one of the bonds in the parent cholesterol molecule to give the vitamin D precursor).
well everything is bad in large quantities, even water, salt, potassium, etc. but thats not the point, the problem is that people probably aren't getting what they should and they are letting it slowly kill them. we have found a way to get just about everything from meat or a drink containing massive amounts of sugar, but even that in itself is very dangerous, fats and sugars eventually break down into acids, and while they are good for you in small quantities the way that we are using them is very harmful. just recently while taking biology class i learned that the normal persons p.h. is just above one on the p.h. scale, and even the smallest bit more than that and everything is thrown out of homeostasis, and it's easily preventable, simple plant based foods like fruit and vegetables turn into bases. even the naturally acidic oranges and other citric plants turn into bases, the only thing is it's a double edged sword in the sense that if you have too much plants in you and your body ph will fall. thats why vegetarianism is harmful if you don't know how to properly prepare your food, and even then your just going to end up with the exact opposite problems.
in eighth grade, I believe I found my reason to be so concerned about my bodies ph scale, I was homeschooling and using berkley's free podcasts to help with the homeschooling, the days subject was physics. the professor was explaining how cancer is formed. it starts when an atom within your dna strand becomes ionized and deforms the molecule, this then turns the rna out of wack and ultimately turning the cell into a food hungry war monger. but heres the thing that morning when i was learning about that i was also thinking about the zinc and copper in a lemon producing some electricity, then it struck me, the reason why cancer is so rampant is because our ph in our bodies are raising making it easier for the electrons to go and ionize atoms in the dna.
maybe it isn't enough for you but since then I've at least tried to cut back on meat and other fatty foods. not because of weight problems but because i believe it helps to prevent cancer. also i believe that another guy wrote a book on this but i can't seem to find it.
also i hid the actual report on mars!
sources
physics web/podcast:http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978515 btw this guy is amazing.
lemon battery:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_battery
wiki on cancer just for the heck of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer