http://www.missmab.com/Demo/phoenixa.php
Okay you little typo monkeys! Find em!
I should warn that my "T" key has been dying for a while now so be on the lookout for words that are missing em.
If all goes well, I'll be getting Gryphon C up tonight or tomorrow as well.
In the first paragraph, the sentence beginning "That phoenix" has a lowercase 'p' whereas all the other instances of the word begin with a capital letter. Apart from that quibble, it looks good to me.
I'd still like to know if Fi's age is a typo though >:3
No. No it's not. :3
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 26, 2007, 05:18:30 PM
No. No it's not. :3
In that case I'd be interested to know how come Fi remembers events from before its birth/summoning/inception. Assuming that isn't a secret :P
I bet you would. ;-]
Ah.. in that last sentence, "the only ones who ever speak of her" - do you, perchance, mean that "the only ones who claim to have seen her" ? Since, obviously, if anyone else knows of the name, someone has spoken about it...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 26, 2007, 05:33:10 PM
I bet you would. ;-]
Naturally. I could shove it down the throat of the next person who invokes Occam's Razor :mwaha
Starting to get into nitpicking territory here, but sometimes the Phoenix race is described as singular and sometimes plural. e.g. "The Phoenix A race
is incredibly smart" vs "The Phoenix A race
are all comprised of females."
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 26, 2007, 05:23:15 PM
In that case I'd be interested to know how come Fi remembers events from before its birth/summoning/inception. Assuming that isn't a secret :P
You seem to assume that Fi has only been summoned once. Or that Fi's age is in reference to something other than his most recent physical manifestation.
I feel as I learned something... :U
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 26, 2007, 06:04:54 PM
You seem to assume that Fi has only been summoned once.
The demonology says that if the Warp-Aci has been destroyed, it is bound to the plane until the summoner dies. I was not aware it was possible to un-summon them like that. Although I suppose I should have thought of it.
Anyway, thanks for the answer/hints... especially since this isn't really the place for it. Maybe this bit should be spliced onto the 'Something doesn't add up' thread...
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 26, 2007, 06:04:54 PM
You seem to assume that Fi has only been summoned once. Or that Fi's age is in reference to something other than his most recent physical manifestation.
I figured it was something along those lines
I like the time chaser theory of Fi better, it leaves a bigger hole in the plot .
and if Dan was the most recent summoner that would make fi younger, unless the transference from Fa'lina to Dan doesn't require the dis assimilation of Fi.
*Charles hmms* Interesting about Pandora... though I highly doubt knowing when and how I'm going to die would phase me.
I've known 'how' for a long time now, and the 'when' could be the very next moment, so knowing I have any time left at all would be comforting!
*glances at Charline fearfully* :[
cool. If it weren't an all-female race, I'd be tempted to switch my "alignment" to type-A Phoenix, now.
come to think of it, I do play female characters with startling frequency...(if I've gotta stare at the character's backside through the entire game, it may as well be a backside that I find pleasant to stare at!)
On the topic of predictions of doom, I don't know if Pandora's predictions are particularly horrifying, but after watching Big Fish, I decided I agree: if you know the place, time, and manner of your death, you can pretty much be assured invincibility before then. To me, it's like free reign to go play in traffic.
Quote from: Raist on September 26, 2007, 06:44:49 PM
On the topic of predictions of doom, I don't know if Pandora's predictions are particularly horrifying, but after watching Big Fish, I decided I agree: if you know the place, time, and manner of your death, you can pretty much be assured invincibility before then. To me, it's like free reign to go play in traffic.
Too bad the process of learning it drives you completely insane.
It isn't the fact you know your time/place of death that drives you crazy, it's the manner in which you learn.
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 26, 2007, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: Raist on September 26, 2007, 06:44:49 PM
On the topic of predictions of doom, I don't know if Pandora's predictions are particularly horrifying, but after watching Big Fish, I decided I agree: if you know the place, time, and manner of your death, you can pretty much be assured invincibility before then. To me, it's like free reign to go play in traffic.
Too bad the process of learning it drives you completely insane.
It isn't the fact you know your time/place of death that drives you crazy, it's the manner in which you learn.
My inner child weeps :<
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 26, 2007, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: Raist on September 26, 2007, 06:44:49 PM
On the topic of predictions of doom, I don't know if Pandora's predictions are particularly horrifying, but after watching Big Fish, I decided I agree: if you know the place, time, and manner of your death, you can pretty much be assured invincibility before then. To me, it's like free reign to go play in traffic.
Too bad the process of learning it drives you completely insane.
It isn't the fact you know your time/place of death that drives you crazy, it's the manner in which you learn.
I guessed as much. Otherwise, she wouldn't be nearly as frightening as the Demonology entry makes her out to be.
uga uga >:3
"... the Phoenix A race doesn't have much of a history."
"Pandora is reborn with the exact same form and the exact same purpose."
"... will refrain from fighting in any means."
Not sure on that one but sounds odd to me ... maybe "by any means" or "in any way" sounds better ?
In the very bottom right, the category is listed as:
"Back to Top
Demonology 101 - Phoenix (B)"
Should be Phoenix (A)
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 26, 2007, 06:49:50 PM
It isn't the fact you know your time/place of death that drives you crazy, it's the manner in which you learn.
I have a mental image of her singing the prophecy (in the key of Off), with backing vocals from a choir of American Idol rejects...
Quote from: Alondro on September 26, 2007, 06:27:20 PM
*Charles hmms* Interesting about Pandora... though I highly doubt knowing when and how I'm going to die would phase me.
In that case, it's tonight at 3:47am, steamroller accident.
I like your Phoenix Oracles, they have lots of props for the plot department.
<----- half phoenix.
Oh god yes. Say, Amber, I don't suppose Pandora has a phone number? Fax? Email? ^_^
Quote from: Goatmon on September 27, 2007, 12:09:28 AM
<----- half phoenix.
Is the other half chicken? *flees*
Quote from: Regal on September 26, 2007, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: Alondro on September 26, 2007, 06:27:20 PM
*Charles hmms* Interesting about Pandora... though I highly doubt knowing when and how I'm going to die would phase me.
In that case, it's tonight at 3:47am, steamroller accident.
My only regret is I won't live to find out how they got a steamroller onto the 7th floor of our lab building. :3
Quote from: Alondro on September 27, 2007, 02:01:22 AM
Quote from: Regal on September 26, 2007, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: Alondro on September 26, 2007, 06:27:20 PM
*Charles hmms* Interesting about Pandora... though I highly doubt knowing when and how I'm going to die would phase me.
In that case, it's tonight at 3:47am, steamroller accident.
My only regret is I won't live to find out how they got a steamroller onto the 7th floor of our lab building. :3
LIER! D:
http://www.missmab.com/Demo/gryphonc.php
I think I fixed all the typos in Phoenix A. So here's Gryphon C for you peeps to tear apart. Go go go!
QuoteWeaknesses: Dumb. As. Doornail.
I think that should either be "As.
A. Doornail." or "As. Dumb. As. Doornail
s."
In the same section:
Quote...as they tend to have an attention span of a gnat.
Probably would be "...
the attention span of a gnat."
Towards the end, last paragraph:
Quote...to get chomped mid-producion.
I assume that should be "produc
tion".
In the "Strengths" section:
QuoteGryphon C types tangling with a dragon and giving the dragon a run for it's money
it is? Or "
its'" ?
There's also two full stops at the end of that paragraph.
in Weaknesses:
Quoterace isn't considered a big a threat as they could be is
"as big a threat as they could be" might be a better way of phrasing it.
Finally, most of the way through you seem to use ellipses with no spaces after them. Normal typographical convention recommends treating an ellipsis as the end of a sentence; ie, use either a single or double space, as you would at the end of any other sentence.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 27, 2007, 08:39:31 AMFinally, most of the way through you seem to use ellipses with no spaces after them. Normal typographical convention recommends treating an ellipsis as the end of a sentence; ie, use either a single or double space, as you would at the end of any other sentence.
You're actually supposed to space an ellipsis over three em spaces. Thus, `. . . ' (Yeah, those are normal spaces. I'm not aware of a way to do em-spaces in HTML.)
Quote from: DMFA Demonology 101: The Gryphon (C) Race
The three Gryphon races have always lived together as far as their records go
This statement is confusing. Do you mean "as far
back as their records go" or something more along the lines of "
according to their records"?
Quote
it seems their historical note is almost interlocked.
I find it weird to see the term "historical note" used in this way. Maybe replace it with "it seems that their
histories are interlocked" or even the stronger "
their histories seem interlocked" (or "
intertwined").
Quote
It has been documented a few times of
That sounds like an ESL construct. Substitute "
There have been a few reported cases of" or something similar.
There are a lot of comma issues, too, but I'm too lazy to list them all. :mowtongue
Quote from: Zedd on September 27, 2007, 01:31:48 AM
Quote from: Goatmon on September 27, 2007, 12:09:28 AM
<----- half phoenix.
Is the other half chicken? *flees*
Ooooh... vampire is a much better pairing! Coupling phoenix flames with vampiric vulnerabilities could lead to an endless cycle of resurrections followed by spontaneous combustion, thus creating an infinite source of emo angst. Enterprising Cubi could then tap this power supply and rule the world!
Er... yeah... :kittydevious
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 26, 2007, 06:04:54 PM
You seem to assume that Fi has only been summoned once. Or that Fi's age is in reference to something other than his most recent physical manifestation.
Hmm... interesting... I think this is the first time I've seen you refer to Fi as a male. All the other official sources have referenced the Warp-Aci with gender-neutral pronouns. Could be a slip, but is it normal for Warp-Aci to have a preferred gender?
In my own Furrae fanfic/RP writing, I've followed the original model and consistently described Warp-Aci as genderless. I'll admit that it can get a bit awkward at times... :animesweat
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 26, 2007, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: Raist on September 26, 2007, 06:44:49 PM
On the topic of predictions of doom, I don't know if Pandora's predictions are particularly horrifying, but after watching Big Fish, I decided I agree: if you know the place, time, and manner of your death, you can pretty much be assured invincibility before then. To me, it's like free reign to go play in traffic.
Too bad the process of learning it drives you completely insane.
It isn't the fact you know your time/place of death that drives you crazy, it's the manner in which you learn.
Heh. What percentage of Pandora visits lead to suicide? Most literary examples of death prophecy-induced insanity seem to end up that way... >:]
Quote from: The Left Hand of Darkness
"You don't see yet, Genry, why we perfected and practice Foretelling?"
"No--"
"To exhibit the perfect uselessness of knowing the answer to the wrong question."
The manner in which they learn, not the information itself?
Hmm, I wonder if that means the knowledge is driven into their minds forcefully and they're made to relive the experience over and over in their dreams until it happens.
I can hardly see a Being going insane after learning they'll live to age 99 and die peacefully in their sleep.
That gryphon might have a sadistic streak...
Quote from: Tezkat on September 27, 2007, 09:43:52 AM
Hmm... interesting... I think this is the first time I've seen you refer to Fi as a male. All the other official sources have referenced the Warp-Aci with gender-neutral pronouns. Could be a slip, but is it normal for Warp-Aci to have a preferred gender?
If I remember right, when you are dealing with a gender neutral subject in writing, it tends to be common practice to fall back on the "he' pronoun rather than constantly going "it". Unless you have D&D books, which will always use the "she" pronoun.
Quote from: Tezkat on September 27, 2007, 09:43:52 AM
Hmm... interesting... I think this is the first time I've seen you refer to Fi as a male. All the other official sources have referenced the Warp-Aci with gender-neutral pronouns. Could be a slip, but is it normal for Warp-Aci to have a preferred gender?
I was thinking perhaps.. just because something is neither physically male or female doesn't mean it doesn't have tendanceys that we would assosicat with one gender or the other..
Also.. it might make Dan more comfortable to have a little guy following him around rather then a Girl.. (( I Know if I had one I would want it to be the same gender as I ))
:)
Quote from: Aurawyn on September 27, 2007, 11:10:25 AM
I was thinking perhaps.. just because something is neither physically male or female doesn't mean it doesn't have tendanceys that we would assosicat with one gender or the other..
That makes sense to me
even if a creature isn't male or female they may display tendencies that would be commonly associated with one or the other. If I remember correctly Fi has certain masculine tendencies and a penchant for trying to be macho. While a warp ACi like say Nutmeg with her cutesy phrasing might be considered more female. Plus there is always the Warp Aci's personal preferance in terms of pronouns
Quote from: Regal on September 26, 2007, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: Alondro on September 26, 2007, 06:27:20 PM
*Charles hmms* Interesting about Pandora... though I highly doubt knowing when and how I'm going to die would phase me.
In that case, it's tonight at 3:47am, steamroller accident.
Wait, are we talking about Pandora at this point, or Light Yagami? :P
Quote from: Zedd on September 27, 2007, 01:31:48 AM
Quote from: Goatmon on September 27, 2007, 12:09:28 AM
<----- half phoenix.
Is the other half chicken? *flees*
son of a - YOU'D
BETTER RUN!
:yuck
Quote from: Goatmon on September 27, 2007, 12:27:14 PM
Quote from: Zedd on September 27, 2007, 01:31:48 AM
Is the other half chicken? *flees*
son of a - YOU'D BETTER RUN!
:yuck
Well, the phoenix half would explain the cigarette.... ;-]
Quote from: Tezkat on September 27, 2007, 09:43:52 AM
Quote from: Zedd on September 27, 2007, 01:31:48 AM
Quote from: Goatmon on September 27, 2007, 12:09:28 AM
<----- half phoenix.
Is the other half chicken? *flees*
Ooooh... vampire is a much better pairing! Coupling phoenix flames with vampiric vulnerabilities could lead to an endless cycle of resurrections followed by spontaneous combustion, thus creating an infinite source of emo angst. Enterprising Cubi could then tap this power supply and rule the world!
Er... yeah... :kittydevious
You're not far off, depending on which incarnation of Kevin (My fursona) it is we're talking about here. :]
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 27, 2007, 10:17:03 AM
Quote from: Tezkat on September 27, 2007, 09:43:52 AM
Hmm... interesting... I think this is the first time I've seen you refer to Fi as a male. All the other official sources have referenced the Warp-Aci with gender-neutral pronouns. Could be a slip, but is it normal for Warp-Aci to have a preferred gender?
If I remember right, when you are dealing with a gender neutral subject in writing, it tends to be common practice to fall back on the "he' pronoun rather than constantly going "it". Unless you have D&D books, which will always use the "she" pronoun.
Or if you're dealing with feminist literature proffs. in college, where a friend of mine got points off for using the word "human" in his essay, because it contains the word "man."
In retrospect, I shouldn't have been so subtle on the FCQ. I should have simply said "Instructor is a flaming, man-hating feminist. Male students should not take this class."
In other news, the DnD books
do use masculine pronouns occasionally, just not very often. I think they try to match the gender of their sample character, so the Druid and Rogue get "she," while the Bard, Fighter, and Barbarian get "he."
My mom taught me that "he" is a gender-neutral pronoun.
Quote from: Raist on September 27, 2007, 02:24:52 PM
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 27, 2007, 10:17:03 AM
Quote from: Tezkat on September 27, 2007, 09:43:52 AM
Hmm... interesting... I think this is the first time I've seen you refer to Fi as a male. All the other official sources have referenced the Warp-Aci with gender-neutral pronouns. Could be a slip, but is it normal for Warp-Aci to have a preferred gender?
If I remember right, when you are dealing with a gender neutral subject in writing, it tends to be common practice to fall back on the "he' pronoun rather than constantly going "it". Unless you have D&D books, which will always use the "she" pronoun.
Or if you're dealing with feminist literature proffs. in college, where a friend of mine got points off for using the word "human" in his essay, because it contains the word "man."
Wow. My god. That's almost at the "Biting Beaver" (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Biting_Beaver/forest) level of feminism.
Well, Tezkat mentioned the only thing I notices, about records and "historical note".
Seems good ^-^ b
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 27, 2007, 12:45:15 PM
Quote from: Goatmon on September 27, 2007, 12:27:14 PM
Quote from: Zedd on September 27, 2007, 01:31:48 AM
Is the other half chicken? *flees*
son of a - YOU'D BETTER RUN!
:yuck
Well, the phoenix half would explain the cigarette.... ;-]
Super ultra mega chicken! (http://www.yu-gi-oh-card-collection.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/winged_dragon_of_ra_egyptian_god_card.jpg)
Nice tripod logo. Photobucket is your friend, Zedd.
I wonder upon Pandora. What would happen if she were to apply her curse upon an individual who were already insane. Would it break them further? Or would they just say "Why thank you. I'll be certain to wear my clean undergarments on that date, if any."
Well it's not like most really insane people might be able to be much an issue to cause her to visit in the first place. Keeping in mind the fact the Phoenix Oracles can die at will, one has to be pretty clever and pretty nasty to be able to do something that would warrent Pandora showing up.
Truth be told Pandora might not even exist and is just a rumour set up to keep people from trying to dick over the Phoenix oracles. Sort of like a "eat your veggies" lesson.
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 27, 2007, 05:43:54 PMTruth be told Pandora might not even exist and is just a rumour set up to keep people from trying to dick over the Phoenix oracles. Sort of like a "eat your veggies" lesson.
I love how no matter how twisted or warped an idea may be, it's always possible to compare it to something we learned in early childhood.
Oh, and as for gender neutrals, I've always preferred the "v"s. Ve, vim, vis, ver, though most are based off of the male ramatical structure.
Learned that while dealing with a time travelling hermaphroditic gold dragon, who habitually was pendantic to the extream.
There is no way that I spelled all those right, but my break is over and the spell check won't work.
Cheers!
Quote from: Chaos on September 27, 2007, 07:14:31 PM
Oh, and as for gender neutrals, I've always preferred the "v"s. Ve, vim, vis, ver, though most are based off of the male ramatical structure.
Learned that while dealing with a time travelling hermaphroditic gold dragon, who habitually was pendantic to the extream.
There is no way that I spelled all those right, but my break is over and the spell check won't work.
Cheers!
What's your native language? That doesn't sound like English to me.
Some people take the route of using the gender-neutral "it," which I consider dehumanizing.
Don't ask me about that one. As I said, the concept was introduced by a Gold Dragon that played lets flaunt the space-time order for fun. I mean, vim and I were two of the more active intelectuals on the bored we frequented. He cited vimself but I forget the sorce.
As for myself, I'm Canadian. You Americans freak out at me saying "about" and "route". God forbid that spell such things as colour.
Edit:
Found the Reference
. (http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?p=112939&highlight=#112939)
QuoteWandering Idiot wrote:
Yevaud333 wrote:
::aghast, renounces his male membership card::
*Is morbidly curious as to just what the hell Yevaud is now*
Having at least temporarily renounced vis malehood in disgust, Yevaud333 is currently in the market for a new gender (or genders). Until such time as ve decides on one (or more), ve asks that you refer to ver using Eganese pronouns* as recommended by the King of the Royal Court of Unfounded Speculation (may his reign be forever imaginative).
Furthermore, until ve settles upon a gender or genders, Yevaud333 will refer to verself in the third person, as these gender-nonspecific pronouns are so damn much fun to use, and it would be criminal to let this perfect opportunity go to waste.
*c.f. this post, where Wandering Idiot wrote:
...the ones I use were, I believe, originally invented by Greg Egan (the science fiction writer). They're by far my favorite out of the ones I've seen. A quick equivalence chart:
he = ve
his = vis
him = ver
Hmm
Quote from: Aurawyn on September 27, 2007, 11:10:25 AM
Quote from: Tezkat on September 27, 2007, 09:43:52 AM
Hmm... interesting... I think this is the first time I've seen you refer to Fi as a male. All the other official sources have referenced the Warp-Aci with gender-neutral pronouns. Could be a slip, but is it normal for Warp-Aci to have a preferred gender?
I was thinking perhaps.. just because something is neither physically male or female doesn't mean it doesn't have tendanceys that we would assosicat with one gender or the other..
Also.. it might make Dan more comfortable to have a little guy following him around rather then a Girl.. (( I Know if I had one I would want it to be the same gender as I ))
:)
Then again, Fi was originally following Fa'Lina..
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 27, 2007, 10:17:03 AMIf I remember right, when you are dealing with a gender neutral subject in writing, it tends to be common practice to fall back on the "he' pronoun rather than constantly going "it". Unless you have D&D books, which will always use the "she" pronoun.
Does Fi have a gender? If Fi has no gender, then `it' is appropriate, anything else is inappropriate. If Fi is of indeterminate gender, the Oxford Guide to Style lists some rules, but then basically says, ``It's all politics. Do whatever you want.''
But the cardinal rule is always consistency. If you start with `he,' use it consistently. If you use `it,' use it consistently. Otherwise, you leave people wondering why you changed midway through your piece.
Think 'they' was popular gender neutral choice back then, but got dropped in the 18th century when the English started standardizing the language towards Latin.
I agree with superluser, consistency is the key now. Though keep in mind the choice often creates preconceptions in the reader's mind; what you chose becomes what you are.
EDIT: For formal literary works. Casual is inconsistent by definition.
Keep in mind I've also been quasi doped up and sick for the past two weeks so consistency is not exactly something that is going to be my strong feature in conversation. Cut me some slack! D:
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 28, 2007, 03:06:19 AMKeep in mind I've also been quasi doped up and sick for the past two weeks so consistency is not exactly something that is going to be my strong feature in conversation. Cut me some slack! D:
k.
This is an informal online discussion, not a published, professionally edited work. I don't think that anybody cares about consistency in informal communications.
Quote from: superluser on September 28, 2007, 03:19:11 AM
This is an informal online discussion, not a published, professionally edited work. I don't think that anybody cares about consistency in informal communications.
... except for us pedants. ;-]
I like the small Steve Irwin being in the Gryphon C section, I think It's a fitting tribute to the real one. I'm also wondering if he's the same Guy who provoked Mab into blowing up her Glen.
Well, of -course-.
Who else would be manic enough to even attempt to annoy a Fae? ;-]
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 28, 2007, 12:48:39 PM
Well, of -course-.
Who else would be manic enough to even attempt to annoy a Fae? ;-]
Several people on this forum come to mind when you say that.
Quote from: Naldru on September 28, 2007, 06:28:50 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 28, 2007, 12:48:39 PM
Well, of -course-.
Who else would be manic enough to even attempt to annoy a Fae? ;-]
Several people on this forum come to mind when you say that.
I know who sounds like the first volunteer...Go for it Naldru! Me and Llearch will wait for you behind this lead shield!
Quote from: Naldru on September 28, 2007, 06:28:50 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 28, 2007, 12:48:39 PM
Well, of -course-.
Who else would be manic enough to even attempt to annoy a Fae? ;-]
Several people on this forum come to mind when you say that.
Frankly, considering how maniac some of the Fae are, NOT annoying a Fae might prove harder..
Quote from: Zedd on September 28, 2007, 08:27:26 PM
Quote from: Naldru on September 28, 2007, 06:28:50 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 28, 2007, 12:48:39 PM
Well, of -course-.
Who else would be manic enough to even attempt to annoy a Fae? ;-]
Several people on this forum come to mind when you say that.
I know who sounds like the first volunteer...Go for it Naldru! Me and Llearch will wait for you behind this lead shield!
Why does everybody think that lead is such good protection. If you're talking about radiation, depleted uranium is better, and any material barrier has to have a certain amount of thickness to be effective. When dealing with radiation, the best protection is distance, lots of distance. (If dealing with fae, finding another planet sounds good.)
I try not to provoke anger in others. However, judging by Demonology 101, it sounds like Angels would have the right approach: trick somebody else into doing it and find another continent to hang around while it happens.
Quote from: Naldru on September 29, 2007, 02:28:40 AM
Why does everybody think that lead is such good protection. If you're talking about radiation, depleted uranium is better, and any material barrier has to have a certain amount of thickness to be effective. When dealing with radiation, the best protection is distance, lots of distance. (If dealing with fae, finding another planet sounds good.)
I try not to provoke anger in others. However, judging by Demonology 101, it sounds like Angels would have the right approach: trick somebody else into doing it and find another continent to hang around while it happens.
Lead is easier to get hold of in large quantities. That's about it.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 29, 2007, 11:36:24 AM
Lead is easier to get hold of in large quantities. That's about it.
True, especially because of the forms that you have to fill out to prove that you aren't purchasing the depleted uranium for use in munitions. (The extra weight gives an extra kick to the bullets.) However, pound for pound, water is easier to get hold of than either of them.
Quote from: Naldru on September 29, 2007, 01:54:40 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 29, 2007, 11:36:24 AM
Lead is easier to get hold of in large quantities. That's about it.
True, especially because of the forms that you have to fill out to prove that you aren't purchasing the depleted uranium for use in munitions. (The extra weight gives an extra kick to the bullets.) However, pound for pound, water is easier to get hold of than either of them.
Yes, but water tends to get everywhere, doesn't stay where you put it, and tends to evaporate.
Quote from: Naldru on September 29, 2007, 01:54:40 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 29, 2007, 11:36:24 AM
Lead is easier to get hold of in large quantities. That's about it.
True, especially because of the forms that you have to fill out to prove that you aren't purchasing the depleted uranium for use in munitions. (The extra weight gives an extra kick to the bullets.) However, pound for pound, water is easier to get hold of than either of them.
One pound of uranium is much more difficult to get hold of than 1000 lb of lead. If we assume the same ratios for ease of obtain-ability (which is probably on the low side, but the numbers multiply out nicely, so we'll stick with what we've got) I'm presuming that 1000lb of lead is more effective, if also more cumbersome, than 1 lb of uranium(depleted, or otherwise).
I'm not sure that 1,000,000 lb of water is more effective than 1000 lb of lead. And the cumbersome issue starts to become effective somewhere in there, meaning that -using- 1m lb of water is not doable, whereas using 1k lb of lead -is-.
All this is fairly obvious, though, I thought. Perhaps I was wrong?
Actually, uranium isn't all that rare. It's been used for hundreds of years as a pigment for glass and ceramic glazes. The United States actually has a few very large mountains of depleted uranium because getting a pound of weapons grade uranium (U-235) meant removing roughly a hundred pounds of depleted uranium (U-238). My understanding was, that until some people starting using it for rifle ammunition, the government was selling it rather cheaply just to get rid of it. For this reason, many of the protective aprons used by X-ray technicians used depleted uranium instead of lead.
Water has a few big advantages: it is transparent, it can usually be found locally, and it can be pumped. This means that all you have to do is build a really big swimming pool and fill it with rater. You can then watch safely watch the radioactive material. A final advantage is that the convection currents provide a very efficient means of heat transfer. That's why spent fuel rods are stored in big swimming pools.
I wasn't under the impression it was -rare-.
I was under the impression it was restricted, in that the governments tended to look askance at anyone who asked for some.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear. If it's not that hard to get hold of, of course, some of my argument becomes null and void. In fact, much of it becomes irrelevant... ;-]
(I could also go into the "it might be a touch iffy to go using it for -some- sorts of radiation shielding because the radiation will break the U-238 down into U-235, and making a critical mass of that isn't as hard as you might think..." argument, but I don't know, off the top of my head, enough of physics to know whether X-rays are likely to be one of that sort, if you'd get enough change to make critical mass, and what critical mass is at STP, and the chances of uranium doing it's phase shifting thing on you accidentally... All I know is, it's not something to mess about with. :-] )
Quote from: Naldru on September 29, 2007, 07:46:40 PM
For this reason, many of the protective aprons used by X-ray technicians used depleted uranium instead of lead.
I'm not sure I'd like to wear one. Uranium is in the part of the Periodic Table where elements have no stable isotopes — they're
all more or less radioactive. I know, with a half-life of several billion years, U-238 isn't very active, but the stuff's chemically poisonous as well: remember, it is a heavy metal. With these delightful properties, a little goes a long way in the "keepitawayfromme" factor. ;)
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 29, 2007, 07:54:21 PM
(I could also go into the "it might be a touch iffy to go using it for -some- sorts of radiation shielding because the radiation will break the U-238 down into U-235, and making a critical mass of that isn't as hard as you might think..." argument, but I don't know, off the top of my head, enough of physics to know whether X-rays are likely to be one of that sort,
No need to worry, X-rays don't do a thing to U-238.
It's neutron bombardment that does neat stuff to U-238 and transforms it.
Into plutonium... :erk
Quote from: SpottedKitty on September 29, 2007, 08:23:55 PM
No need to worry, X-rays don't do a thing to U-238.
Indeed.
And what you want, in terms of an apron for X-Raying, is a material that readily absorbs those frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum, but either re-emit it at lower frequencies (i.e. engery), over a longer period of time, and/or convert it to phonons (read: internal heat).
I'd rather expect U238 to reemit x-rays rather readily. But, I don't know its atomic states. (They never taught that to us in grad-school, only the basic principles. ;) )
I wouldn't be surprised if normal granite is more radioactive than depleted uranium (U238). (My understanding is that radioactive breakdown of one of the minerals in granite is the main source of radon gas.) Air is also measurably radioactive. (The carbon in radioactive carbon dating comes from the carbon dioxide in the air.)
Quote from: Naldru on September 30, 2007, 03:59:46 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if normal granite is more radioactive than depleted uranium (U238).
[looks at granite walls of house]
[looks out window at granite buildings]
Well, erm, yes, I do happen to live in an area where most of the buildings are granite, and everything here does have a slightly higher than average background count, but I don't know how it compares to U-238.
Quote from: Naldru on September 30, 2007, 03:59:46 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if normal granite is more radioactive than depleted uranium (U238). (My understanding is that radioactive breakdown of one of the minerals in granite is the main source of radon gas.)
Exactly! And the parent mineral producing that radon?
Uranium. Specifically, U238. :D
The professor that I did my undergrad thesis with told me the following: Every mineral, every rock that someone's dug out of the depths of the Earth, has trace amounts of Uranium and Thorium in it and on it. (He then said that we should, therefore, always wash our hands after touching the various minerals we'd been working with.)
Uranium and Thorium are quite common throughout the lithosphere and the mantle. They are, it is proposed, what cause the Earth's interior to remain molten, due to their radioactive decay. And since they undergo alpha decay, they're also the source of all Helium on this planet, too.
I suspect that radon would come from the decay of U235, not U238.
Quote from: Naldru on September 30, 2007, 09:15:20 PM
I suspect that radon would come from the decay of U235, not U238.
Oh, U238 does decay. It just takes a very long time.
According to my e-periodic table ("kalzium", part of the KDE Linux desktop), the half-life of U238 is 4.4 billion years. However, it's also 99.2% of all of the uranium out there. The other isotopes are much, much rarer.
Now kids, a little science lesson: ;) "Half-life" is actually an average of a probability. Saying, "A neutron has a half-life of 5 minutes," does
not mean it'll sit there for 5 minutes, then go *poof* once "the clock runs out." :) It means that there's a 50% chance it will undergo decay
sometime in the next 5 minutes. Or, if you prefer, if you have a lump-o-neutrons, there's a 100% chance that 50% of the neutrons in the lump will decay after 5 minutes.
I could go on. :D
So, with a half-life of 4.4 billion years, a lump of U238 with 10 billion atoms in it is certain to see
at least one atom decay into Thorium sometime within a year. How many is 10 billion atoms? A pile the size of a house? Well, consider (kisses to my chemist-Sweetie for this info!) that 18 grams of water (a little over 3/5 of an ounce) contains
600,000 billion billion molecules of water. 10 billion U238 atoms would be .004
nanograms.
So, it should be obvious that, even with that über-long half-life, even a small grain of U238 will have quite a number of atoms of U238 radioactively decaying each second.
I also need to correct myself slightly. Uranium doesn't decay
directly into Radon. Since it undegoes alpha-decay, its atomic number drops by 2. So the actual decay path is Uranium->Thorium->Radium->Radon. (Unless the Radium undergoes beta-decay instead of alpha-decay. Hmmm... another possibility is that the alpha-decay destabilizes the nucleus and it fissions into different elements than what I've listed. But, you peeps can easily look that up. ;) )
{ Edit: I was actually playng a bit fast-n-loose with the numbers there. If you really want to go from half-life to a decay rate, divide .7 by the half-life. (Your decay rate will be in units of "N/year".) You can then use the rate as a likelihood that a U238 will decay after 1 year, and from there, it's just get a large enough sample to see 1 atom decay per year. }
I took a look at the web and came up with the following
U238 half-life 4.5 billion years
U235 half-life 700 million years
C14 half-life 5800 years
Pu238 (plutonium) half-life 88 years
So there probably is approximately the same number of disintegrations from the U235 and U238 atoms in natural ores, since the ores are slightly over 99% U238. However, without knowing the decay patterns, it is difficult to tell how much radiation they would give off.
So I won't disagree with the idea that depleted uranium might give off some radiation. However, if the depleted uranium apron stops 100 times as much ionizing radiation from the x-ray machine as it gives off itself, does it really make a difference? Wat I'm saying is that you haave to look at how much radiation actually reaches living tissue to do damage.
Otherwise, we end up with the situations like the mercury scare with tuna some years ago. It turned out that a new test for mercury had been developed that was sensitive enough to find the amount of mercury in tuna. Since people claimed that there were no naturally occuring sources of mercury in tuna, the claim was that it was all from pollution. After the scare started reaching ridiculous proportions, somebody went to a museum in Albany, New York and found some fish that had been taken by Henry Hudson in the Hudson River in the 1600's and early 1700's (This is the river that goes through New York City.) and found the exact same level of mercury. Further research indicated that there was a natural source of mercury in fish.
People tend to be scared of the wrong things. In many cases, they avoid safe activities because of perceived hazards and then engage in much more dangerous activities.
Quote from: Naldru on September 29, 2007, 07:46:40 PMActually, uranium isn't all that rare. It's been used for hundreds of years as a pigment for glass and ceramic glazes.
Stay away from the red Fiestaware, kids!
Quote from: Naldru on September 29, 2007, 07:46:40 PMThat's why spent fuel rods are stored in big swimming pools.
Please tell me that they're stored in pools, and not
swimming pools.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 29, 2007, 07:54:21 PMit might be a touch iffy to go using it for -some- sorts of radiation shielding because the radiation will break the U-238 down into U-235, and making a critical mass of that isn't as hard as you might think...
It would be difficult to get to critical mass. Wikipedia says that you need 52 kg in a 17 cm sphere. I should think that it would be very difficult to do that to a vest-shaped object.
Quote from: superluser on September 30, 2007, 11:36:13 PM
Quote from: Naldru on September 29, 2007, 07:46:40 PMActually, uranium isn't all that rare. It's been used for hundreds of years as a pigment for glass and ceramic glazes.
Stay away from the red Fiestaware, kids!
Quote from: Naldru on September 29, 2007, 07:46:40 PMThat's why spent fuel rods are stored in big swimming pools.
Please tell me that they're stored in pools, and not swimming pools.
"Swimming pools" is a nickname for them. Nobody actually goes swimming in them.
Actually, the uranium pigments are bright yellow and thorium produces a very deep black. I'm not sure what was used in the reds. I remember a few museums had samples of ceramics and glasses with uranium and thorium pigments and would hold geiger counters to them as a demonstration.
The only way to convert significant amounts of U238 to U235 would be to place it in an active nuclear reactor for a few months. By that time, there were be so many other radioactive isotopes in the material that it would glow under water due to the Cherenkov effect.
Quote from: Naldru on September 30, 2007, 10:45:51 PM
People tend to be scared of the wrong things. In many cases, they avoid safe activities because of perceived hazards and then engage in much more dangerous activities.
Or they have the hazards perceived into them by personal injury attorneys and the insurance companies.
Quote from: superluser on September 30, 2007, 11:36:13 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 29, 2007, 07:54:21 PMit might be a touch iffy to go using it for -some- sorts of radiation shielding because the radiation will break the U-238 down into U-235, and making a critical mass of that isn't as hard as you might think...
It would be difficult to get to critical mass. Wikipedia says that you need 52 kg in a 17 cm sphere. I should think that it would be very difficult to do that to a vest-shaped object.
That -does- make it slightly difficult. ;-]
I was under the impression that Uranium changed density under different temperatures and pressures in a number of interesting ways likely to cause some accidental activity, if you stored it wrong... but I may be thinking of something else.
Also, I trust Wikipedia as a search mechanism, not as a final source. Particularly over anything that involves any subject that the populous finds interesting and/or scary. After hearing about subjects where professors in the subject had changes to Wikipedia removed by random Joes, I take Wikipedia with a grain of salt...
Can someone get back on task or cubi gonna choke a box?
Wasn't this supposed to be about Demonology?
How in the world did you get from Demonology to Uranium?
via X-rays, of course.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 01, 2007, 06:19:21 PM
via X-rays, of course.
Thats it..Im gonna shove your xrays straight up yo-Wait..Where you shove things up a box?
In Soviet Russia, box shoves things up you.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 01, 2007, 07:29:16 PM
In Soviet Russia, box shoves things up you.
Of course, if your're talking about the Luggage in the Discworld series, the box swallows you whole.
Have you ever heard of cow-chip bingo. You mark a field into squares and everybody purchases a square and a cow is left to wander the field. Where the chip falls, the owner of that patch of land is the winner. Sometimes, I think that that is a good analogy to how discussions go in this forum. They wander all over the place, with occasional pieces of unpleasant matter being left along the way.
Quote from: Naldru on October 01, 2007, 05:41:25 AM"Swimming pools" is a nickname for them. Nobody actually goes swimming in them.
I shoulda put a smiley on that.
Quote from: Naldru on October 01, 2007, 05:41:25 AMActually, the uranium pigments are bright yellow and thorium produces a very deep black. I'm not sure what was used in the reds.
Uranium. So says Hyperphysics (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/nucbuy.html#c2). Given the color of the red, it probably used the yellow pigment.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 01, 2007, 10:19:03 AMI was under the impression that Uranium changed density under different temperatures and pressures in a number of interesting ways likely to cause some accidental activity, if you stored it wrong... but I may be thinking of something else.
I'm not sure about that, but it's probably not going to happen from a vest.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 01, 2007, 10:19:03 AMAlso, I trust Wikipedia as a search mechanism, not as a final source.
Meh. Usually, I try to find more authoritative info, but when I'm arguing on the internet, I figure it's good enough until someone finds a real source. That is also why I prefaced it with ``According to Wikipedia.''
Quote from: superluser on October 02, 2007, 02:00:44 AM
Meh. Usually, I try to find more authoritative info, but when I'm arguing on the internet, I figure it's good enough until someone finds a real source. That is also why I prefaced it with ``According to Wikipedia.''
Heh. Granted, granted. ;-]
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 02, 2007, 06:47:46 AM
Quote from: superluser on October 02, 2007, 02:00:44 AM
Meh. Usually, I try to find more authoritative info, but when I'm arguing on the internet, I figure it's good enough until someone finds a real source. That is also why I prefaced it with ``According to Wikipedia.''
Heh. Granted, granted. ;-]
Yes...Bicker about your preesiouuss uranium...Makes you a nuclear god! Soon you will be a healthy green glow like Mr Burns
Quote from: Zedd on October 02, 2007, 03:36:39 PM
Yes...Bicker about your preesiouuss uranium...Makes you a nuclear god! Soon you will be a healthy green glow like Mr Burns
Actually uranium, even fairly enriched uranium, is pretty safe to handle. It's only after it's been in a reactor for a while that the decay products build up that it becomes really hazordous. I don't think I've actually heard of anything turning green after being exposed to high radiation, unless you count The Hulk comic books. It's actually more of a gray to black as necrosis and gangrene sets in.
When Wikipedia said that you need 52 kg in a 17 cm sphere, they were talking about very highly enriched uranium. You could pile unenriched uranium in a mountain and nothing would happen. (However, a few billion years ago, the percentage of U235 was high enough that you could obtain criticality with naturally occuring minerals. No bangs, but a lot of high radiation for a while.) When the Wikipedia and other sources talk about compressing the uranium, they are considering the use of high explosives to compress the mass. No matter how much explosive you use, I don't think that you could get criticality using unenriched or depleted uranium.
Like gamma rays, nothing stops our topics from spreading all over.
Quote from: Naldru on October 02, 2007, 08:45:07 PM
No matter how much explosive you use, I don't think that you could get criticality using unenriched or depleted uranium.
Actually, there's a naturally occurring reactor core in Australia somewhere. Or, at least, the remains of one from a couple million years back.
Sadly I don't have a link to info on it. Shouldn't be too hard to google it up, though...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 02, 2007, 09:35:46 PM
Quote from: Naldru on October 02, 2007, 08:45:07 PM
No matter how much explosive you use, I don't think that you could get criticality using unenriched or depleted uranium.
Actually, there's a naturally occurring reactor core in Australia somewhere. Or, at least, the remains of one from a couple million years back.
Sadly I don't have a link to info on it. Shouldn't be too hard to google it up, though...
There was one in Oklo in Africa (http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/factsheets/doeymp0010.shtml). There may have been one in Australia, but I don't remember coming across it in the literature.