Greetings,
Before I go into my proposal, I just want to mention that I have contacted Amber who has given me permission to post this proposal on the forums. And yes, I know that not everyone here considers themselves to be a fur. Anyway, onto my proposal:
I'm here to tell you about the Furry Sociological Survey. You may or may not know, but a few years ago David Rust, a furry and history student, conducted a survey of 360 furs. Now in 2007, I hope to replicate his survey, as well as ask a few questions that Rust didn't ask.
So why do this? The answer is: out of curiosity. Once the results have been collected I will collate them and present them online so that you can see what trends we have amongst us furs.
If you wish to complete the survey all you need to do is visit this page and download the survey from here:
http://www.furnation.com/thefurrysurvey/participate.htm
Then fill it in and email it to furrysurvey@gmail.com. Be sure to read the consent statement and instructions carefully.
With many thanks,
Kyle (furry and first year psychology student)
PS. There is no deadline by which the survey must be submitted. I'll keep taking them as long as people keep sending them in. But it would be appreciated if you don't take too long.
Also if you don't have Microsoft Word on your computer just email me and I'll send you version of the survey that you can work with, such as a txt file.
And also, you can see the original survey by Rust here: http://www.visi.com/~phantos/furrysoc.html
And finally, you can read more about this project on the website here: http://www.furnation.com/thefurrysurvey
Woot! The survey has an "other" response to gender! About time someone realized the importance of this.
For the poor, unfortunate souls born with either none or non-working both. God bless his heart.
I find this very interesting since you're also Australian. As far as I know, I've never even heard of Australia having a furry convention before... well, not a major one at least. I can't wait to see the results though.
-takes the survey-
:boogie
Quote from: RJ on March 19, 2007, 02:20:08 AM
I find this very interesting since you're also Australian. As far as I know, I've never even heard of Australia having a furry convention before... well, not a major one at least. I can't wait to see the results though.
We did have a convention called AusGather that was held sometimes in Sydney, sometimes in Melbourne. But the last year that happened was in 2002. Now Australia doesn't have any conventions, but it does have large annual gatherings of about 50-80 furries in Sydney (FurJam), Melbourne (MiDfur) and Brisbane (RivFur). Plus we have regular small furmeets organised through the Ozfurry mailing list.
Quote from: Moonfrost on March 19, 2007, 03:16:20 AM
-takes the survey-
Put it back, so other people can fill it out. :-P
I note that although you say the survey is available in non-Word format by request the link does also have a plain ascii version. Are they the same?
I can probably read the Word version, mind - but whether you'd be able to read the filled-in version as output by OpenOffice is between you and Microsoft :mwaha
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 19, 2007, 07:44:59 AM
I note that although you say the survey is available in non-Word format by request the link does also have a plain ascii version. Are they the same?
I can probably read the Word version, mind - but whether you'd be able to read the filled-in version as output by OpenOffice is between you and Microsoft :mwaha
Yup, all surveys are exactly the same in content.
If you need any file format that isn't already on the website, I can probably provide what you need.
Also, don't forget to read through the statement of consent closely.
Quote9. Are you a zoophile?
Yes
No
Better question would be "Do you rape your pets?" and anyone who answers yes should be shot. That way you can separate people with unblemished minds who assumed it means they share a strong platonic bond with their animal companions from the freaks who believe that it's ok to screw rover so long as you put on some pretense about caring for his "feelings". Of course, I have doubts about how many people would answer the question honestly in the first place, thus calling into question the purpose of it even existing.
QuoteWoot! The survey has an "other" response to gender! About time someone realized the importance of this.
What exactly is the importance of it? Male and Female accurately describe well over 99% of the world and probably 100% of everyone who will answer the survey. People born with true gender abnormalities are rare, and most of the people who would pick other choose to be seen as something other than what they were born as. If ascertaining what sex someone wants to be is important then it ought to be a separate question.
You haven't specified the currency in the income question. Presumably it's USD, but it could be Yen, gold coins or obsidians for all I know >:3
And I have to say, Evil Iguana has taken the words right out of my mouth about _that_ question.
Quote from: Evil.Iguana on March 19, 2007, 04:04:57 PMQuoteWoot! The survey has an "other" response to gender! About time someone realized the importance of this.
What exactly is the importance of it? Male and Female accurately describe well over 99% of the world and probably 100% of everyone who will answer the survey. People born with true gender abnormalities are rare, and most of the people who would pick other choose to be seen as something other than what they were born as. If ascertaining what sex someone wants to be is important then it ought to be a separate question.
Well, as mentioned before, sex is not gender. If the researcher wanted to know if the respondent has a penis or a vagina, the question should be ``What is your sex?''
And yes, given the nature of the survey questions, I suspect that the purpose of this study is to establish that there is no significant difference in incidence of paraphilia in furries than in the populace at large.
There is a broader spectrum of "gender" than male or female.
I dont want to offend but I dought i wanna take the test
Gender is defined by what wobbly bits you have. Perceived gender, identity crisis', trapped souls, etc aren't really the focus of most polls, or at least this one I believe.
Quote from: Netami on March 19, 2007, 07:42:07 PMGender is defined by what wobbly bits you have.
Er... no. See the entry for gender at The American Heritage Dictionary (http://www.bartleby.com/61/59/G0075900.html). Your sex is your physical characteristics, your gender is your social role. And yes, there are more genders than just masculine and feminine.
The ill-conceived use of `gender' in lieu of `sex' seems to come from an abhorrence with the word sex (``You mean...coitus?''). Before the 20th century, `gender' chiefly meant that letter beside the word in your Latin-English dictionary. Both the OED and Fowler's Modern English Usage list the use of the term `gender' for `sex' as jocular.
These citations seem to show that in the beginning of the 20th century, gender began being widely used as a synonym for sex differences. In the mid 20th century, feminists seem to have co-opted the term as a distinction for social roles. This is good, because such a distinction is actually useful, whereas the perfect synonym of gender for sex is useless unless you're writing poetry.
Riiight...
Since I do not consider myself a "Furry" I'll leave the survey to someone else. I'd hate to bias the results in favor of mundania.
Quote from: Attic Rat on March 20, 2007, 12:02:38 AMSince I do not consider myself a "Furry" I'll leave the survey to someone else. I'd hate to bias the results in favor of mundania.
Yeah. That's a really good point. Does this study have a control?
Ok, looks like I've got a few questions to answer and things to clarify.
First, currency:
For the question regarding yearly income, participants are expected to answer in their own national currency. Afterwards, I look at on what continent they resided and convert their national currency into United States dollars. Because the answer options are divided into $10,000 integers, variations in currency values within a continent would be negligible. That said, it would have been better to have either stated that participants should answer in their own national currency, or let participants perform that currency conversion themselves and answer in United State dollars.
So bottom line is, just answer in your own national currency.
Second, gender:
The 'other' catagory generally assumes the participant is a hermaphrodite, it may also include persons who have had a sex change. I used the term 'other' to be all inclusive of persons with genders which were neither clearly male nor female. Even though hermaphrodites and people have had sex change operations are in a minority, does not make them any less important to the survey. In fact, I personally am very interested in knowing just how many furries out there don't fit into the standard male or female catagories.
Third, control:
Well...what do you mean Superluser? This study has a number of elements to it that are designed to create the most balanced possible survey - or as balanced as an online survey can be. As far as non-furries go. Well, I'd hardly expect anyone other than furries to complete something entitled "The Furry Sociological Survey."
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 19, 2007, 07:37:05 AM
Quote from: RJ on March 19, 2007, 02:20:08 AM
I find this very interesting since you're also Australian. As far as I know, I've never even heard of Australia having a furry convention before... well, not a major one at least. I can't wait to see the results though.
We did have a convention called AusGather that was held sometimes in Sydney, sometimes in Melbourne. But the last year that happened was in 2002. Now Australia doesn't have any conventions, but it does have large annual gatherings of about 50-80 furries in Sydney (FurJam), Melbourne (MiDfur) and Brisbane (RivFur). Plus we have regular small furmeets organised through the Ozfurry mailing list.
Ah, that's interesting... if I didn't live so out of the way, I'd probably like to go to one. But I have a pretty hard time getting to my usual anime con each year as it is :/
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 20, 2007, 04:02:45 AM
Well, I'd hardly expect anyone other than furries to complete something entitled "The Furry Sociological Survey."
Wanna bet?
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on March 20, 2007, 04:23:50 AM
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 20, 2007, 04:02:45 AM
Well, I'd hardly expect anyone other than furries to complete something entitled "The Furry Sociological Survey."
Wanna bet?
I'd bet a bazillion dollars! :)
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 20, 2007, 05:34:32 AM
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on March 20, 2007, 04:23:50 AM
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 20, 2007, 04:02:45 AM
Well, I'd hardly expect anyone other than furries to complete something entitled "The Furry Sociological Survey."
Wanna bet?
I'd bet a bazillion dollars! :)
You lose. :<
*took the survey*
Quote from: BillBuckner on March 20, 2007, 06:14:26 AM
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 20, 2007, 05:34:32 AM
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on March 20, 2007, 04:23:50 AM
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 20, 2007, 04:02:45 AM
Well, I'd hardly expect anyone other than furries to complete something entitled "The Furry Sociological Survey."
Wanna bet?
I'd bet a bazillion dollars! :)
You lose. :<
*took the survey*
By being a fan of DMFA you're already removed from the "non-furry" denomination. ^_-
Quote from: Goatmon on March 20, 2007, 06:41:44 AM
By being a fan of DMFA you're already removed from the "non-furry" denomination. ^_-
DMFA is the gateway drug to furry.
I have filled in the survey and sent it, but I had to mark two xs on the race question since I'm both white and Hispanic (white by physiology, Hispanic by cultural background). Why are options that are not mutually exclusive and do not refer to the same thing listed as separate answers for the same question?
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 20, 2007, 04:02:45 AMBecause the answer options are divided into $10,000 integers, variations in currency values within a continent would be negligible.
Hm. There are a few currencies that would cause some trouble. The British Pound is currently something like 1.5 euro, meaning that someone making £70,000 is going to place himself in the 50-75,000 category instead of the Above 100,000 category.
(And let's not get into the Venezuelan Bolivar)
It would be very easy to simply add ``please indicate currency'' there.
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 20, 2007, 04:02:45 AMThird, control:
Well...what do you mean Superluser? This study has a number of elements to it that are designed to create the most balanced possible survey - or as balanced as an online survey can be. As far as non-furries go. Well, I'd hardly expect anyone other than furries to complete something entitled "The Furry Sociological Survey."
Every survey must contain a control group. If you don't have a control group, the survey winds up saying very little. There are many reasons for using a control, but in a self-selecting online survey, the most injurious aspect is that the demographics of those who respond to such a survey are not going to be the same--regardless of topic--as the populace at large.
Online survey takers are going to skew heavily toward higher income and higher education. If your results skew toward higher income and higher education does that mean that furries skew that way or online survey takers in general?
I feel like I'm constantly bringing you down. I don't mean to do that. This is actually a pretty good survey for a first year. These are simply things to add for future surveys.
QuoteI'm not getting you down at all am I? I wouldn't like to think I was getting you down.
I assumed the currency to be US dollars, and therefore I marked below 10000.
That part of the survey probably becomes a bit of a hassle, as one USD is about 7.5 Swedish Crowns. Thus my answer becomes a bit indefinite.
Anyhow, on the gender question I am quite a bit of a traditionalist, so I consider gender as something that means either male, female, or abnormality. The modern definition of gender as having anything to do with roles I see as just more inconvenient stereotyping or illogical thinking by people who easily fall into the "feminist" or "radical" folds. Gender is thesame as sex to me, but not gender role, why I keep having trouble with all these different definitions.
To simplify, I should say that I think that one should not answer that sort of question based upon what gender they wish they belonged to, but rather be truthful and simply state to which sex they belong. If they have had a sex change, then it would be proper to state their current sex, and that they have gone through the procedure. People currently undergoing sex change or those born with abnormalities are the only ones who should answer "undefined".
Quote from: superluser on March 20, 2007, 09:39:40 AM
Hm. There are a few currencies that would cause some trouble. The British Pound is currently something like 1.5 euro, meaning that someone making £70,000 is going to place himself in the 50-75,000 category instead of the Above 100,000 category.
(And let's not get into the Venezuelan Bolivar)
... or what Gabi earns, the Argentinian Peso, which, last I heard, was something obscene like 6 to the GBP... which is, actually, 1.9 USD. Man, the USD has slumped since last I saw it... Given, say, my earning power, which at present is either 40k or 243k, depending on currency. I'm sure I could find a worse number for you.... :-)
Why do you call my currency obscene? :P There are bigger exchange rates in the world.
Anyway, I insist that cultural groups shouldn't be put on the same list as physical divisions, as every person belongs to at least one of each.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 20, 2007, 10:16:25 AM... or what Gabi earns, the Argentinian Peso, which, last I heard, was something obscene like 6 to the GBP... which is, actually, 1.9 USD. Man, the USD has slumped since last I saw it... Given, say, my earning power, which at present is either 40k or 243k, depending on currency. I'm sure I could find a worse number for you.... :-)
Except that the Argentinian Peso is pretty close to the value of the Brazilian Real and Peruvian Nuevo Sol, which would tend to mean that if the researcher used a continental currency, it would be similar enough for Argentina.
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 20, 2007, 04:02:45 AM
Ok, looks like I've got a few questions to answer and things to clarify.
First, currency:
For the question regarding yearly income, participants are expected to answer in their own national currency. Afterwards, I look at on what continent they resided and convert their national currency into United States dollars. Because the answer options are divided into $10,000 integers, variations in currency values within a continent would be negligible. That said, it would have been better to have either stated that participants should answer in their own national currency, or let participants perform that currency conversion themselves and answer in United State dollars.
So bottom line is, just answer in your own national currency.
Second, gender:
The 'other' catagory generally assumes the participant is a hermaphrodite, it may also include persons who have had a sex change. I used the term 'other' to be all inclusive of persons with genders which were neither clearly male nor female. Even though hermaphrodites and people have had sex change operations are in a minority, does not make them any less important to the survey. In fact, I personally am very interested in knowing just how many furries out there don't fit into the standard male or female catagories.
FYI, Stygian, Furry answer this one...
AS for Gender, I know we had the debate before on another thread... So, here a sample gage....
SEX- male or female, or other <2% mostly is Biology but that is not what is asked.
Gender- should be Female or male and choose the one role you feel you are closest to. mmm Maybe if you have a problem with this one just answer "other"---which seem to include anyone who is both or neither...
The questions I'm not sure I am getting is
What is your sexual inclination? What or why do you worried over single or multible partners? and is that at the same time? or one at a time?
Being Bi, this is a little problematic, Do you have one partner, which you love enough to give up the sex, which you like or need? Or do you try to find another open loving person? And cheating is out. That shows no respect of either partner or yourself.
Is your interest in furry of a sexual or non-sexual nature? This is one is a little insulting, but not as insulty as the zoophile. Some non-furries may like Amber's stories and something similiar but would never date a real furson. I like my stories that are well rounded and sexual/love stories is part of that. I would not like just Furry pron. Still, a "friend" of mine has stated that If you put five people together it is almost certain that one of them is a prevert. I am just not one of them.
Maybe the problem is What is a furry or
how much of a furry are you?
- Do you just like stories with talking fur-covered people?
- Do you have a virtual Furson , you like to play as?
- Do you dress-up or coplay as your furson in a fursuit?
- DO you think you really are a anthropomorphic spirit trapped in a human body?
Good luck with your survey
:mowhappy
PBH
I agree with PBH - the survey should really have some indicator of how furry someone is. It's not exactly a yes/no thing.
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 20, 2007, 11:09:08 AMDo you have a virtual Furson , you like to play as?
I gotta agree with this. There are many other variants that would be very interesting to explore.
For example, I use the username superluser. That's not what mommy named me. I identify with it, but I consider my online persona very different from who I am.
I used to play D&D. I had a halfling character named Telamon there. I pretended to be him, but he wasn't me.
I'm writing a story that features a furry protagonist that includes some elements of my personality (often taken to hyperbolic levels). I don't identify with the character, and I don't consider myself a furry.
These are all questions ripe for exploration.
(As to how an author of furry fiction can be not furry, I'm primarily interested in stories, and the story is set in the DMFA universe, which means that it has to be furry. If Amber's rich stories were set in a universe where everybody shoveled sh**, the protagonist, too would have shoveled)
I hate to say it but Just liking "funny animal stories", makes you a furry... But 90% of the public, who loves Disney movies or Bugs Bunny and the Loony Tunes would disagree with us...
PBH
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 20, 2007, 12:05:01 PM
I hate to say it but Just liking "funny animal stories", makes you a furry... But 90% of the public, who loves Disney movies or Bugs Bunny and the Loony Tunes would disagree with us...
PBH
I think that there's an extra step there.
That's like saying someone who likes the Star Trek movies is a trekie... you have to take the mental leap of being a fan, IMO, before you would clasify as a member of the sub-culture. (Also, one might like Loony Toons because it's funny, not because it contains anthropomorphic animals.)
Oh Well what is it, then?
Is It
- having a furry alias?
- having a Plushy?
- or just wanting to cuddle/hug complete strangers(without being under the effects of drink/drugs)?
:giggle
:hug
PBH
I agree with Reese personally. Its probably one of my bigger pet peeves about the fandom when people go on "Well you liked Looney Toons and that is furry so you are a furry" as it sounds more like people desperately grasping onto straws. Sort of like people who claim Chewbacca is a furry and those who are Chewie fans are furries.
There is a big difference between enjoying a cartoon that happens to have anthromorphic characters and enjoying a cartoon because it happens to have anthromorphic characters. People who enjoyed watching Disney's Treasure Planet doesnt automatically mean they are fans of sci-fi or steampunk due to the cartoons use of those features.
Star Trek is unfortunately a bad comparison for this since even Star Trek fans don't attempt to leech into other fandoms. Yeah, fans of Star Trek might also be fans of Firefly, Farscape, and other space-faring series, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are going to asume Firefly and Farscape are somehow in a Trek-centered universe.(unless they are way out there)
I agree, but also I am just hoping for a better definition of a furry? People define and redefine themselves all the time, but a general line should be agreed upon somewhere on this.
Well, Ms Williams, If we take you as an example, Would we have to said that Amber is no longer a furry.? You, yourself, have said that you are a furry? But maybe you can define what one is?
PBH
(quietly moves this to Off Topic, since it isn't DMFA related)
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 20, 2007, 03:12:37 PM
Sort of like people who claim Chewbacca is a furry and those who are Chewie fans are furries.
CHEWIE IS AN ALIEN, NOT A FURRY! HE IS NOT A FURRY!
:mwaha
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 20, 2007, 03:44:15 PMI agree, but also I am just hoping for a better definition of a furry? People define and redefine themselves all the time, but a general line should be agreed upon somewhere on this.
I think there are some general guidelines. I think the concept here is that furry refers to animals that fill human social roles. In other terms that will probably get me in trouble, their sexes are bestial and they retain some of their bestial identity, but their genders are human, and their physical appearance is not metaphorical or allegorical.
I think it's probably best to give some examples.
Æsop wrote fables around 500 BC. They featured highly anthropomorpized characters (see the frogs who wanted a king (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Frogs_Asking_for_a_King), or the town mouse and the country mouse (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Town_Mouse_and_the_Country_Mouse)). I don't consider these furry. They use animals as metaphors for other attributes--the tortoise is slow, and that's why he's used--not because tortoises are ninjas.
I'm drawing a 2300 year blank, but around 1894, we get The Jungle Book. Again, highly anthropomorphized characters. Again, animals are used as metaphors.
In 1945, we have Animal Farm. Now, not only do the animals have human emotions and human societies, but also wear human clothing and walk erect. They're still used as metaphors. Not furry.
In the early 1920's, we have Looney Tunes and Walt Disney. The animal characters in Looney Tunes are anthropomorphized, and they're not metaphors for anything. But in Looney Tunes, they are still fully animal--they talk, like Garfield, for dramatic convenience, and they don't usually take part in human society (a notable exception being Baby Buggy Bunny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Buggy_Bunny)).
In Walt Disney cartoons, the characters are effectively human. I don't remember any reference ever being made to Mickey Mouse actually being a mouse.
And now here's where I start drawing the line. Rocky and Bullwinkle, Underdog, King Leonardo and His Short Subjects, and the others in that genre all have characters that are anthropomorphized animals. They're not metaphorical, they are part of human society (Bullwinkle went to Wossamotta U, got commendations from the President, Peabody has argued in courts of law), and despite all of that, they're still animals. I think that makes them furry.
That's pretty much how I see it. Oh, and:
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/superluser/lulztitties.png)
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 20, 2007, 03:44:15 PM
I agree, but also I am just hoping for a better definition of a furry? People define and redefine themselves all the time, but a general line should be agreed upon somewhere on this.
Well, Ms Williams, If we take you as an example, Would we have to said that Amber is no longer a furry.? You, yourself, have said that you are a furry? But maybe you can define what one is?
PBH
I think the problem lies in that people keep trying to find a "better definition", when it is something that often lies within the individual to decide. If you watch Spirited Away and enjoy it, does that make you an anime fan? Would you be considered one if you went out and got another dvd from the same creator (lets say Princess Mononoke)? Anime is often defined by its artstyle...but does someone who watches Toonami really make them an anime fan if they watch equal or greater amounts of other cartoons?
The definition ultimately lies in what the individual classifies themselves as. Only when they take an active step and say "yeah. I'm a fan of this. Probably moreso than the average viewer" From then out it's a matter of defining what kind of fan one is.
I don't see how furry or anthromorphic is any different. People can be involved in the furry subculture and not consider themselves furry at all while others who do consider themselves furry avoid the subculture to begin with.
Personally? I don't see myself as a furry...and I don't recall anytime I particularly said I was. I draw furries yes, and I like anthromorphic artwork. I socialize with the furry community...but I don't necessarily see myself as a furry anymore than I see myself as an otaku. I often find the problem lies in that its other people who make the decision for others or try to come up with an all-encompassing blanket for the term. You'd have just about as much luck trying to define video games and violence.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 20, 2007, 07:15:43 AM
Quote from: Goatmon on March 20, 2007, 06:41:44 AM
By being a fan of DMFA you're already removed from the "non-furry" denomination. ^_-
DMFA is the gateway drug to furry.
Feh, doubtful. :P
I'm already suckered in too deep by being a motorsport fan to be seduced by something else. ;)
Quote from: BillBuckner on March 20, 2007, 09:15:29 PM
I'm already suckered in too deep by being a motorsport fan to be seduced by something else. ;)
... It's not just a river in Egypt....
Did I ask you, you guitar noob? D:
You posted here. That's an implicit ask, if ever I saw one... :-]
I'm not a furry. Of course, if Amber didn't draw DMFA, I wouldn't have read it.
So well, We are back to this question
How much of a furry are you?
- Do you just like stories with talking fur-covered people?
- Do you have a virtual Furson , you like to play as?
- Do you dress-up or coplay as your furson in a fursuit?
- DO you think you really are a anthropomorphic spirit trapped in a human body?
The real answer is AS MUCH AS you feel comfortable being.
:mowhappy
Thanks Amber and Good Night everyone.
PBH
Maybe we need a poll/survey for DMFA...
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 20, 2007, 10:32:17 PM
DO you think you really are a anthropomorphic spirit trapped in a human body?
Oh bloody hell, if THAT discussion starts here, I'm locking the thread. The last thing I need is people talking about how they are really cute woodland creatures trapped in their hy-ooman bodies.
I think it's a mental issue, actually. I rarely see those kinds of people, but I really can't avoid that smack-my-forehead moment when I hear one going on about it.. I don't even care if it's true or not, it's insane. Like those people who think they're jesus/god/god-jesus. It's a real smack-my-forehead moment whenever I hear someone talk about how crappy they feel because they can't shed their pathetic human shell, blah blah... It's almost always the same story.
Quote from: Darkmoon on March 20, 2007, 11:30:20 PM
Oh bloody hell, if THAT discussion starts here, I'm locking the thread. The last thing I need is people talking about how they are really cute woodland creatures trapped in their hy-ooman bodies.
Only if I don't get there first. Abuse and misery, ahoy.
Of course, it's perfectly acceptable to claim that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body....
(note: these are the yolks, folks...)
I understand your pain, man. I am one, too. I loev me the womens.
I could claim that I'm a human trapped in a lioness' body...
http://www.furaffinity.net/full/250342/
:<
*could not resist* :giggle
Quote from: Darkmoon on March 20, 2007, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 20, 2007, 10:32:17 PM
DO you think you really are a anthropomorphic spirit trapped in a human body?
Oh bloody hell, if THAT discussion starts here, I'm locking the thread. The last thing I need is people talking about how they are really cute woodland creatures trapped in their hy-ooman bodies.
EXCUSE ME, I am not some mere woodland creature, hunam! I am a mighty ICE DRAGON, sent here from the EARTH MOTHER to save everyone from global warming! Don't cross me or else I'll transform into my true body, which I conveniently got on furbid...
For the record I am an animal trapped in a man's body. That animal is a man, and he's quite glad to be trapped here.
...in before the lock!
Quote from: superluser on March 20, 2007, 09:39:40 AM
Every survey must contain a control group. If you don't have a control group, the survey winds up saying very little. There are many reasons for using a control, but in a self-selecting online survey, the most injurious aspect is that the demographics of those who respond to such a survey are not going to be the same--regardless of topic--as the populace at large.
Ah yes, now I get you what you mean. As a matter of fact, I DO have a control. See, my survey is heavily based on David Rust's survey from a few years ago. By comparing my results with his, we shall what trends are consistent between both studies and thus can be assumed to be fairly reliable indicators. For example, at the moment, the ratio of male to female participants in my survey is remarkably similar to Rust's ratio of male to female participants. So it's likely that both our studies are fairly reliable indicators of the ratio of males to females within the furry fandom.
You can read Rust's original survey here: http://www.visi.com/~phantos/furrysoc.html
You'll notice the similarity between survey questions then. As well as noticing what I've changed and added.
I'd just like to say thanks to everyone here, both for the massive amounts of survey responses I've gotten, as well as for massive amount of discussion you've generated. I read and consider everyone's opinion, and I'll keep in mind what what you've all discussed here when I'm writing the final report.
Quote from: Darkmoon on March 20, 2007, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 20, 2007, 10:32:17 PM
DO you think you really are a anthropomorphic spirit trapped in a human body?
Oh bloody hell, if THAT discussion starts here, I'm locking the thread. The last thing I need is people talking about how they are really cute woodland creatures trapped in their hy-ooman bodies.
Murf! What have I done? Okay Here a little James Brown coming your way...
Baby help me Please!!!...
OOWW I feel goood
You knew I would now.
I feel nice, you knew I would now........... :mowmeep
PBH
I'd be surprised if anyone on this forum actually felt that way.
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 21, 2007, 04:00:09 AMAh yes, now I get you what you mean. As a matter of fact, I DO have a control. See, my survey is heavily based on David Rust's survey from a few years ago. By comparing my results with his, we shall what trends are consistent between both studies and thus can be assumed to be fairly reliable indicators.
Er...there are still problems with using a different study for a control. You may think that your methodologies are identical, but the control is the proper way to verify that.
Quote from: Gabi on March 21, 2007, 10:31:37 AMI'd be surprised if anyone on this forum actually felt that way.
What way? Good? Technically, I guess I feel
well, but I do feel it.
Quote from: superluser on March 21, 2007, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: Gabi on March 21, 2007, 10:31:37 AMI'd be surprised if anyone on this forum actually felt that way.
What way?
That thing Darkmoon was threatening to lock the thread over, I think.
Tapewolf wins. :D That's what I meant.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 20, 2007, 07:15:43 AM
Quote from: Goatmon on March 20, 2007, 06:41:44 AM
By being a fan of DMFA you're already removed from the "non-furry" denomination. ^_-
DMFA is the gateway drug to furry.
So true. I'm still soooo not a furry though.
Quote from: Evil.Iguana on March 21, 2007, 03:14:52 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 20, 2007, 07:15:43 AM
Quote from: Goatmon on March 20, 2007, 06:41:44 AM
By being a fan of DMFA you're already removed from the "non-furry" denomination. ^_-
DMFA is the gateway drug to furry.
So true. I'm still soooo not a furry though.
Clearly a Scaly... :rolleyes
Quote from: superluser on March 21, 2007, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 21, 2007, 04:00:09 AMAh yes, now I get you what you mean. As a matter of fact, I DO have a control. See, my survey is heavily based on David Rust's survey from a few years ago. By comparing my results with his, we shall what trends are consistent between both studies and thus can be assumed to be fairly reliable indicators.
Er...there are still problems with using a different study for a control. You may think that your methodologies are identical, but the control is the proper way to verify that.
Oh no, our methodologies aren't identical at all! Rust surveyed the majority of his participants at conventions, while I'm using an online survey for furries on forums. It's the questions we're asking that are (for the most part) identical.
Anyway, a survey study doesn't actually need a control group. Only experiments need control groups. For example, say I was doing a study on a drug that would enhance peoples mental abilities. I would have a group of people who were given the actual drug (experiment group) and a group who recieved a placebo (control group). Both groups would be given an IQ test before and after being given the drug. Then you could see the difference both before and after participants were given drugs, as well as seeing if the placebo had any effect. If the control group IQ scores increased by an average of 10%, while the experimental groups average IQ scores increased to around 30%, you can assume that the drug account for only 20% of the experimental groups increased IQ levels, with the other 10% being due to the placebo effect.
The only to do a control group in this survey would be to have the same survey given out to non-furs...but I'm totally not going to do that. It's just logistically impossible to survey the non-furry side of the internet with any accuracy.
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 21, 2007, 08:23:25 PM
The only to do a control group in this survey would be to have the same survey given out to non-furs...but I'm totally not going to do that. It's just logistically impossible to survey the non-furry side of the internet with any accuracy.
... it's also logistically impossible to survey the furry side with any accuracy, online, anyway.
I dispute your comment about not -needing- a control group, though I despair of any way of -providing- one... If you don't have a control, all you have is a bunch of numbers. What are you comparing them to? How do you prove your numbers for the "average non-furry" when comparing to the "average furry" without asking them both all the same questions?
The short answer is, you can't. So all you get from this is a bunch of meaningless numbers. Statistics is so neat....
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 21, 2007, 08:29:48 PM
If you don't have a control, all you have is a bunch of numbers. What are you comparing them to?
David Rust's original survey, that's what! :P
Keep in mind that by nature, no statistical survey is 100% accurate. To accomplish that feat would require surveying every single furry in the world! What you have instead is a sample of that larger population. And the larger the sample, the greater the probability that your data will reflect the poplation at large.
Circular logic go!
I admit I havent and likely won't take the survey. It just doesn't interest me and I don't feel like the target demographic as odd as that sounds. Which is probably one of the problems in doing a survey like this, since it relies on the willingness and honesty of varying people to fulfill it. And since most people can't even agree on who or what a furry is, I doubt there will ever be an accurate survey done.
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 22, 2007, 01:23:00 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 21, 2007, 08:29:48 PM
If you don't have a control, all you have is a bunch of numbers. What are you comparing them to?
David Rust's original survey, that's what! :P
.. which, since he ran it at a number of cons, is arguably biased towards furries, or at the very least the sort of open-minded people who don't hate people simply because they're furries...
As Amber says - circular logic, go. Arguing that you don't need a control group for a furry survey because you can use an earlier furry survey is... less than complete.
Surveys and polls all some amount of error, the trick is to balance data against your variables and try to keep the number of variables to minimum. And to poll as many as possible.
Now, FurrySurvey can use the old survey to bounce his survey off of, but maybe he should try going to a few furry cons and take a polls there, too. And keep the data from both the internet and the con data separate from each other.
The survey control group would only be good for people who think of themselves as furries, which was the point of the original survey... Do you think the Gallup Polls gets non- voluntaries in their polls.?
PBH
I don't know enough about his course to know precisely what he's trying to achieve, but in the software engineering group project I did in '99, the bulk of the marking came from the autopsy of the project, rather than the project itself.
To whit, he might score on this for suggesting ways to arrange a control group for situations like this.
As a scientist who previously used to database clinical journals which relied heavily on statistical surveys, I can see that this survey will have very limited application, but can be credible as long as it doesn't try to over-reach its significance. This survey will only demonstrate trends among people who already strongly associate themselves with furry. It can be used validly for that purpose, but it is useless to apply this data to the general population, or to try and interpolate any trends among the fandom as a whole, since the ratios are quite certain to be highly skewed in the convention population vs the general population.
Convention groups are never used by valid research for anything other than to determine facts about that specific population.
Now, one can use general population data to determine statistical differences between the groups, such as ratios of homosexuality and bisexuality vs the gender identity ratios general public, and thus reach conclusions on how the groups differ, but again it can't reflect on the furry fandom as a whole because in conventions you cannot be sure you are attaining a truly representative sample due to the non-randomness of convention population selection and must be confined only as a subset as "people who attend furry conventions".
True
But the orginal survey was of the convention population, so maybe part of his online survey should have a question about Cons.. It is an important relating piece of data when comparing the old and new surveys. And yes the survey is limit only to Furries that think of themselves as furries. But he can see if how this subgroup is growing and/or the trends in the fandum are going...Or Is it too limited for what.? Maybe in a few more years, he can run another survey, and compare it to this one.
PBH
Polls and survey have to start somewhere and they always build on that was done before.
Quote from: Alondro on March 22, 2007, 11:10:42 AM
As a scientist who previously used to database clinical journals which relied heavily on statistical surveys, I can see that this survey will have very limited application, but can be credible as long as it doesn't try to over-reach its significance. This survey will only demonstrate trends among people who already strongly associate themselves with furry. It can be used validly for that purpose, but it is useless to apply this data to the general population, or to try and interpolate any trends among the fandom as a whole, since the ratios are quite certain to be highly skewed in the convention population vs the general population.
Convention groups are never used by valid research for anything other than to determine facts about that specific population.
Now, one can use general population data to determine statistical differences between the groups, such as ratios of homosexuality and bisexuality vs the gender identity ratios general public, and thus reach conclusions on how the groups differ, but again it can't reflect on the furry fandom as a whole because in conventions you cannot be sure you are attaining a truly representative sample due to the non-randomness of convention population selection and must be confined only as a subset as "people who attend furry conventions".
Yes, exactly. Rust's original survey can only be generalised to convention going furries (although 35 out of his 360 participants did the survey online) while my survey can only be generalised to furries who attend forums and message boards.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 22, 2007, 05:30:32 AM
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 22, 2007, 01:23:00 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 21, 2007, 08:29:48 PM
If you don't have a control, all you have is a bunch of numbers. What are you comparing them to?
David Rust's original survey, that's what! :P
.. which, since he ran it at a number of cons, is arguably biased towards furries, or at the very least the sort of open-minded people who don't hate people simply because they're furries...
Well...it's 100% biased toward furries. After all, it's a furry survey. You know....for furries. This is a furry survey. Not a furrys versus non-furries survey. Just furries. Only furries. Made by furries. For furries. Furries.
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 22, 2007, 07:30:28 AM
Surveys and polls all some amount of error, the trick is to balance data against your variables and try to keep the number of variables to minimum. And to poll as many as possible.
Now, FurrySurvey can use the old survey to bounce his survey off of, but maybe he should try going to a few furry cons and take a polls there, too. And keep the data from both the internet and the con data separate from each other.
The survey control group would only be good for people who think of themselves as furries, which was the point of the original survey... Do you think the Gallup Polls gets non- voluntaries in their polls.?
PBH
I'd love to take this survey to cons! But unfortunately I'm a Australian furry. And although we have three major gathering here, we don't really have any cons per se. But I'd be great if (in many years time when I have the money to go overseas) I could take a new furry survey (and the lessons I've learned from doing this one) and study furries at conventions like Anthrocon and Further Confusion. *dreams*
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 22, 2007, 07:36:58 AM
I don't know enough about his course to know precisely what he's trying to achieve, but in the software engineering group project I did in '99, the bulk of the marking came from the autopsy of the project, rather than the project itself.
To whit, he might score on this for suggesting ways to arrange a control group for situations like this.
This isn't actually for any university course or anything. I'm just using my knowledge from having studied psychology and applying it to this project.
FurrySurvey, multiple postings are frowned upon, here. Just so you know. You can quite easily add multiple quotes to a single message, and you can also easily edit your message with the "modify" icon at the top of each...
Just a gentle reminder...
Quote from: R.A.M. on March 21, 2007, 06:24:51 PM
Quote from: Evil.Iguana on March 21, 2007, 03:14:52 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 20, 2007, 07:15:43 AM
Quote from: Goatmon on March 20, 2007, 06:41:44 AM
By being a fan of DMFA you're already removed from the "non-furry" denomination. ^_-
DMFA is the gateway drug to furry.
So true. I'm still soooo not a furry though.
Clearly a Scaly... :rolleyes
(http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs15/300W/f/2007/032/3/f/SCALIES_ARE_FURRIES_TOO_by_spacewolfomega.jpg)
What about featheries?
While man can still his body keep
Wine or love drug him to sleep,
Waking he thanks the Lord that he
Has body and its stupidity,
But body gone he sleeps no more,
And till his intellect grows sure
That all's arranged in one clear view,
Pursues the thoughts that I pursue,
Then stands in judgment on his soul,
And, all work done, dismisses all
Out of intellect and sight
And sinks at last into the night...
The Man and The Echo, by William Butler Yeats
We're all trapped, with flaws and imperfections fettering us. The strive to bend or break these, even in mind, has stagnated over time, if you ask me.
Now, the increasing possibilities revealed and made available to us through the gathered knowledge of our modern society, lets those few of us not too busy or too shy seek out new manners of expression, through thought mostly, not always action.
As is with so much else though, these experiences are confined by the mind as much as interpreted by it, and these limitations imply that there are certain boundaries and borders that we cannot cross using normal means of communication. Quite frankly, we can only give a rudimentary idea of what we really think using the little language and understanding we have at our disposal. And even that may be tainted by petty emotions, tendencies and stress.
And just as is with so many other concepts that we form in our mind, such as morals, laws, feelings and such, we have so many definitions and ideas with so few means to communicate them, and no real firm points of reference. It's just ideas. And an idea is so much.
Thus the question boils down to; do you consider yourself a furry, in the colloquial sense of the word as accepted by the general community. The rest is specifics.
Well, that's a very rough interpretation of my view, at least...
But is there a colloquial sense of the word that is accepted by the whole community?
Quote from: Gabi on March 23, 2007, 10:42:31 AM
But is there a colloquial sense of the word that is accepted by the whole community?
Try this here - But the definition is a little too broad link--- Furry on WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_fandom)
Edit: the term Furry is Slang, so that is why there is no firm definition
:mowcookie........ PBH
Maybe I should have said generally accepted by the community instead... See what I'm talking about here?
Most people would agree that anthropomorphic animals are in there somewhere. After that, it gets a bit divisive. :mowtongue
The Wikipedia definition is actually trying to describe all possible definitions, which is one reason why it may have seemed broad. You may not agree with all the possible definitions proposed.
Greetings,
For those of you who do not know, since November 2006, I have been conducting a survey of the furry community. I'd like to thank everyone who has taken part, as well as the administrators on all the forums who have allowed me to post my survey here.
This thread is a notification that at the end of this month, survey responses will no longer be accepted. That means if you want to be a part of the Furry Sociological Survey and haven't submitted your survey already, you need to do so no later than April 30th!
For more information on the study, just visit the website at: www.furnation.com/thefurrysurvey
Be sure to read through the statement of consent before taking part in the survey! And be sure to have your survey submitted to furrysurvey@gmail.com before April 30th!
Cheers and thanks,
Kyle Evans
Quote from: FurrySurvey on March 31, 2007, 11:04:12 AMBe sure to read through the statement of consent before taking part in the survey! And be sure to have your survey submitted to furrysurvey@gmail.com before April 30th!
I misread that and thought you meant March 30, which was yesterday here in the States. Then I realized that you were across the International Date Line. *Then* I realized that going west over the Date Line adds a day.
And then, as I alluded to above, I realized that it was a month away.
All of which now lead me to ask: What time in which time zone do you stop taking surveys on April 30?
Topics merged. Isn't that kinky?
Will you post your conclusions here later? Would be intresting to read.
I withdrew my entry from the survey because it would have been impossible for me to choose only 1 answer to the ethnicity question without lying by omission. I've already explained why.
This post is informing folks that this is the final week in which you can submit your survey as the survey will be closing on Monday, the 30th of April. Many thanks go out to everyone who has taken part so far – the participants tally is over 250 furries at the moment.
So if you want to take part in the survey, now is the time to do so!
http://www.furnation.com/thefurrysurvey/participate.htm
Cheers and thanks,
Kyle Evans
I'm curious, has anyone in some anti-furry action sent like viruses n' stuff to that e-mail?
Quote from: stiletto on April 22, 2007, 11:41:57 PM
I'm curious, has anyone in some anti-furry action sent like viruses n' stuff to that e-mail?
You know, I had that exact concern when I started this survey. But because I'm advertising on forums that are either entirely populated by furries or popular with furries no such thing has happened. Yay!
In fact, I've hardly even got any spam! I think I've got something like 6 spam emails in total.
Hi there,
This is the last 24 hours in which you can submit your response to the Furry Sociological Survey! If you're interested in learning about the survey, then go here: http://www.furnation.com/thefurrysurvey
To participate, then go here: http://www.furnation.com/thefurrysurvey/participate.htm
There are still quite a number of people who need to confirm their consent or clear up problems with their survey. If that's you – please take care of the issue ASAP.
The final day to submit your survey will be on Monday, the 30th of April. (I don't mind if you submit it sometime on Tuesday...but no later!)
Thanks once again to everyone who has made this survey possible!
Cheers and many thanks,
Kyle Evans (furry and psychology student)