05/17/2010 [AS2 #102] - 'Cubi are masters of emotional manipulation

[Tapewolf]

Somehow I'm reminded of the scene near the end of Return of the Jedi where the Emperor tells Luke that it's his destiny to join the Dark Side.

[Captain]

Destania continues to go up the "complete monster scale."

/obvious

Man "slapping" him around is cruel but this caught me a little off-guard for some weird reason; and to think this is coming from someone who happens to be the daughter of who started the cubi-dragon war.

Of course, we or at least I don't know how strained tensions were before but still it comes off as hypocritical.

[LoneHowler]

Wow I'm really beginning to hate pre Dan Destina. Way to go Amber a hated character is harder to create than a loved one, especially one we were pre-conditioned to like

[Cogidubnus]

Hopefully Abel will have the sense to not take whatever a lady in a leather corset says seriously.

It's a strange rule, but it's always served me well.

[Dard]

So, according to Destania, Abel is going to join Cerebus' fate?
Let's hope not, simply for the sake of the comic and Amber's mental health.

I must say that I find it more and more hard to connect this Destania with the one who "had a vested interest in".

[MT Hazard]

Destania continues to go up the "complete monster scale."

Could we make an actual scale? Not sure what the unit of measurements would be, 'Bastards' perhaps.

This scale could be applied to all characters, after all even Dan and Mab have shown evil potential.

Of course we'd need a opposite scale, measured in 'Care-ings' maybe.

[Lucheek]

So, according to Destania, Abel is going to join Cerebus' fate?
Let's hope not, simply for the sake of the comic and Amber's mental health.

I must say that I find it more and more hard to connect this Destania with the one who "had a vested interest in".

My guess is that Destania is trying to get a reaction out of Abel. While being mean and cruel just to watch somebody be upset about it is all well and fun, it seems like Destania is putting an awful lot of effort into benig particularily mean and creul to Abel. I have to think, 'what does she get out of it'? My guess is that she's trying to get Abel to do something for her, sparking up rage in the pacifistic cat. Go after his father, maybe?

[Arcblade]

My guess is that Destania is trying to get a reaction out of Abel. While being mean and cruel just to watch somebody be upset about it is all well and fun, it seems like Destania is putting an awful lot of effort into benig particularily mean and creul to Abel. I have to think, 'what does she get out of it'? My guess is that she's trying to get Abel to do something for her, sparking up rage in the pacifistic cat. Go after his father, maybe?

Possible.  Either way, he didn't plan it until his 400th birthday, which was probably a convenient time to ambush and kill Aniz.  

Re: Destania's words here, most of it is complete BS in my opinion.  This probably doesn't need to be said, but it hits a nerve, so I'll say it anyway:  no one is responsible for being born.  It's what you do afterwards that matters.  

Also, Destania comments on Abel's lifespan.  She could just be referring to the fact that he's a Cubi, and they live longer than beings.  But the way she says it makes me think she's also referring to the Cubi in SAIA.  Is there perhaps something about Abel's genetics that would give him an extra long lifespan?  

edit:  Deleted extra quote line, derp derp. 

[Alondro]

Wow I'm really beginning to hate pre Dan Destina. Way to go Amber a hated character is harder to create than a loved one, especially one we were pre-conditioned to like

Well, it's actually easy to create a hated character.  Just make it so overwhelmingly annoying that everyone can't stand it after a single episode!  Like 'Poochy' on the Krusty the Clown show. 

Or Charline.. 

*Charline  *  I'm hated?

[Chairtastic]

Okay, seriously now.  Damaging a student is all well and good; there are hundreds to replace him.

But damaging school property?  Fa'Lina, get off your overinflated tucus, and stop this before she ruins the carpets next.

[Scrap Fish]

Destina should never, never be allowed to give pep talks.

[Wanderer]

...My, aren't we a psychotic little bitch.

[Anker Steadfast]

Ahh .. but isn't it obvious that she's really talking about herself ?
That she's talking about how she perceives her own fate ?
All that bitterness transferred to someone else than herself ?

It's good entertainment, is what it is.

[Arcblade]

Ahh .. but isn't it obvious that she's really talking about herself ?
That she's talking about how she perceives her own fate ?
All that bitterness transferred to someone else than herself ?

It's good entertainment, is what it is.

I dunno, what horrible thing happened as a result of her birth?  The only event I can think of that would sort of tie to this was Destania's attempt to stop Aniz from going to help Siar.  And the result of that... really wasn't her fault.  I don't see how it fits. 

[Lego3400]

Wow I'm really beginning to hate pre Dan Destina. Way to go Amber a hated character is harder to create than a loved one, especially one we were pre-conditioned to like

Well, it's actually easy to create a hated character.  Just make it so overwhelmingly annoying that everyone can't stand it after a single episode!  Like 'Poochy' on the Krusty the Clown show. 

Or Charline.. 

*Charline  *  I'm hated?

Quite right. Now creating a character that people love to hate. (As in they like them as a character but would totally hate them if they were a real person) is hard. Very hard.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Ahh .. but isn't it obvious that she's really talking about herself ?
That she's talking about how she perceives her own fate ?
All that bitterness transferred to someone else than herself ?

It's good entertainment, is what it is.

I dunno, what horrible thing happened as a result of her birth?  The only event I can think of that would sort of tie to this was Destania's attempt to stop Aniz from going to help Siar.  And the result of that... really wasn't her fault.  I don't see how it fits. 

I'm going to start by saying that I can't prove any of this.


But...

Look at the Demo 101 page for 'Cubi. Aside from Tri-Wings who are effectively immortal, 'Cubi live a lifespan of about 3,000 years. Destania is 7,000, and seems to show no signs of aging. We also know that she can't be much younger than her mother, who, if Mink rounded down to the nearest thousand, is 7,999 at the very *most*.

Cyra is awfully young to ascend to Tri-wing, methinks, and I'd be willing to bet good money, if it were ever revealed, the relative youth of Cyra at time of her ascension, the nearness of ages to her and her daughter, and whatever triggered the Dragon-Cubi war are all intertwined.

Mass death for Destania's birth would then be a valid correlation, and it's conceivable that Destania blames herself somehow.


Best wishes,
Corgatha Taldorthar.

[Tapewolf]

Look at the Demo 101 page for 'Cubi. Aside from Tri-Wings who are effectively immortal, 'Cubi live a lifespan of about 3,000 years. Destania is 7,000, and seems to show no signs of aging. We also know that she can't be much younger than her mother, who, if Mink rounded down to the nearest thousand, is 7,999 at the very *most*.

I don't think we know Cyra's age, if that's what you're saying. The way I read it, 7000 on the clan pages is the age of the clan - i.e. the moment of ascension - not the age of the founders themselves.

[jeffh4]

I can see what Destania is doing here.  She's taking all of the nasty things Abel tells himself inside his head and gives them a voice.  

Face it. Abel doesn't like himself very much and prefers to be by himself to sulk and wallow in his self-loathing.

Now why would Destania say this to Abel?  Because she wants him to snap out of it and take some initiative to control his own life? Because it's fun to torture emo students? Who knows?

Kudos on great writing to Amber.

[Tapewolf]

I can see what Destania is doing here.  She's taking all of the nasty things Abel tells himself inside his head and gives them a voice.

Indeed, that's my take on it too - the thread title is taken from the demonology entry, by the way.

Now why would Destania say this to Abel?  Because she wants him to snap out of it and take some initiative to control his own life? Because it's fun to torture emo students? Who knows?

I'd say it's because she still wants to manipulate him for her own purposes.

[VAE]

Heh, i can soo imagine Destania having a checklist of methods...
1) Beating up and brute intimidations ... X
2) Emotional torturing... X
3) Persuasion by honey voice and offering cookies ...

it just would be funny with her switching between modes...

I can see what Destania is doing here.  She's taking all of the nasty things Abel tells himself inside his head and gives them a voice.  

Face it. Abel doesn't like himself very much and prefers to be by himself to sulk and wallow in his self-loathing.

Now why would Destania say this to Abel?  Because she wants him to snap out of it and take some initiative to control his own life? Because it's fun to torture emo students? Who knows?

Kudos on great writing to Amber.

I think i realise why she is doing it, but it rests on the assumption  that she still wants to use him for her ends and so needs to keep him up.
You see, you already correctly mentioned she is giving Abel's thoughts a voice. The problem with such thoughts is that it is difficult, nearly impossible to argue with yourself, and leads you only to doubts.
However here we have her, whom abel loathes already, stating these things... Which will, quite likely make him oppose her just out of the fact he dislikes her, and at least unconciously try to prove her wrong. Which is, incidentally, at odds with his destructive beliefs about himself, and one of possible ways to dupe him into defeating them...
It works in reality too - if you argue with someone about something important to you, it is in general that both of you will leave with much firmer belief.

Now, if the initial beating, except for tasty food, was for this reason too, ie she planned it entirely , she is even more brilliant than i had thought

[ooklah]

She's definitely not the nicest person. Was she this nasty when she met Edward? or had she already softened a bit? Or is Edward that awesome? hrm...

[Anker Steadfast]

Ah well, as the old saying goes, "Thieves thinks everyone steals".
She's definately up to no good.

[Darktail67]

Well, it's actually easy to create a hated character.  Just make it so overwhelmingly annoying that everyone can't stand it after a single episode!  Like 'Poochy' on the Krusty the Clown show. 

Or Excalibur if you've seen Soul Eater  Recurrent character, but you'd never forget the way he says 'Idiot!'

[Scow2]

I'm thinking the reason she's 'confirming' the reasons for his self-loathing is to amplify them. She does not have the authority to kill him herself. She's already said subtlty isn't her strong point, so I think she's telling the truth about wanting to kill him. But, since she can't kill him herself, she's decided to settle on driving him to suicide. After all, according to her, every moment he's alive he's a threat to everyone around him, and there's no way to avoid it. Therefore, the only way to stop killing those he cares about is to cease to exist. Fortunately, we know he doesn't go with Dee...

[VAE]

I'm thinking the reason she's 'confirming' the reasons for his self-loathing is to amplify them. She does not have the authority to kill him herself. She's already said subtlty isn't her strong point, so I think she's telling the truth about wanting to kill him. But, since she can't kill him herself, she's decided to settle on driving him to suicide. After all, according to her, every moment he's alive he's a threat to everyone around him, and there's no way to avoid it. Therefore, the only way to stop killing those he cares about is to cease to exist. Fortunately, we know he doesn't go with Dee...

Oh , come on.
The last thing this is going to do is to confirm them. Abel by now probably loathes her as much as his 'dear' father - he is dfinitely not going to take her words to the heart.

[MT Hazard]

Lore's coment about 'they may have done bad things but being a bad family wasn't one of them' seems relevant. (comic here ) there is no reason that Dest can't be a loving wife and mother and a evil megalomaniac bend on genocide.

Also I still think there should be a scale.

[SpottedKitty]

She's taking all of the nasty things Abel tells himself inside his head and gives them a voice. 

A saccharine, mummy-telling-nice-bedtime-stories voice is the one I hear in my head as I read it. The razor sharp claw just a whisker's breadth from his eyeball is just punctuation.

Remember how Fa'lina described Destania to Abel: "Melodramatic as always." This seems to be her normal behaviour.

[A. Lurker]

I'm thinking the reason she's 'confirming' the reasons for his self-loathing is to amplify them. She does not have the authority to kill him herself. She's already said subtlty isn't her strong point, so I think she's telling the truth about wanting to kill him. But, since she can't kill him herself, she's decided to settle on driving him to suicide. After all, according to her, every moment he's alive he's a threat to everyone around him, and there's no way to avoid it. Therefore, the only way to stop killing those he cares about is to cease to exist. Fortunately, we know he doesn't go with Dee...

Oh , come on.
The last thing this is going to do is to confirm them. Abel by now probably loathes her as much as his 'dear' father - he is dfinitely not going to take her words to the heart.

I don't know. Seems to me that if you really loathe somebody, that very emotional investment would make it rather difficult to then just turn and ignore them...in fact, Aaryanna's and Destania's behavior in the recent strips appears to illustrate that principle quite nicely. So yes, I'd say Abel probably is going to give those words some serious consideration -- more than they IMO deserve, but then I have the luxury of just being on the outside looking in.

[Alondro]

Well, it's actually easy to create a hated character.  Just make it so overwhelmingly annoying that everyone can't stand it after a single episode!  Like 'Poochy' on the Krusty the Clown show. 

Or Excalibur if you've seen Soul Eater  Recurrent character, but you'd never forget the way he says 'Idiot!'

Well, that didn't take a whole episode.  Even the other characters couldn't stand him after about 2 minutes.  Except for that one guy later on...

[Scow2]

Oh , come on.
The last thing this is going to do is to confirm them. Abel by now probably loathes her as much as his 'dear' father - he is dfinitely not going to take her words to the heart.

He may hate her, but she's also older, more experienced, and in a more authoritative position than him. Also, she's agreeing with him in the most dangerous way. He may also believe it because he thinks it's the very painful truth of his existence... Remember, it's not improbable that she could be reading his thoughts, or using memories of his thoughts before he got his mind-shield up. He hates her because she hates him, and she's giving him the reason she hates him, so he'll likely think it to be true. And, unlike Aaryanna's reasons for hating Abel, he simply can't "whatever" it away, which requires him to admit he's a walking sphere of death: Something he can't not care about. Also, people, especially pessimists like Abel, have a tendency to believe derogatory comments more than positive ones, no matter who says them. (One negative is ~ ten positive).

Ah... ninja'd on my second point.