[Dungeon Design] The1Kobra Productions

Started by Noone, December 10, 2008, 03:06:31 PM

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Noone

Ehh ehhm, aaaaanyways, (I'll try to spare the lengthy introduction, and most likely fail miserably)

I've recently started DMing for a group of friends I play dungeons and dragons with. Now, I understand that most of the forum isn't particularly interested in or an active player of dungeons and dragons, but I'm sure that most of you have played some form of RPG, or at least, some form of game where there has to be some intelligent level design. Anyways, part of the DMing process, aside from creating plot, story, why the characters get involved in this mess, who is telling them to go here, do what, etc... part of it is designing dungeons where they can take their characters and tear them apart, use all variety of skills, and blabbedy blabbedy bla... anyways...

I suppose in recent years, I've seen some dungeons created with some very sloppy design choices, some points, which I myself try to avoid, (yet aren't always able to), make dungeons more of a drag and less entertaining. I myself have had little experience in making dungeons, but do have plenty of experience playing them, and I try to incorporate those into what I create.
Point 1: Linearity.
I know that dungeons generally have an entry point, (they could have more than one), and a destination as where you need to go to get your plot required item. Anyways, one of the worst things a designer can do is to give only one route to get to where they need to go. What I'm saying, is that if a dungeon has one encounter, then another encounter, with a line-like design and only one route to go after every room, then there is something wrong. Even two routes is a significant leap from one, more the merrier. It also helps to have some skills that help smooth out the path, a locked door here, a pile of rubble in this way, a spikey pit blocking another path, and an open corridor but a big fight at the end, is a significantly better design philosophy to follow than to have the open corridor with bad guys at the end repeatedly.
Point 2: Variety.
What fun is a dungeon that has the same monster over and over again? Now granted, with the dungeon I show below, I myself didn't really master this point, though I did have to finish it in a week, on top of other things I had to do. Regardless, having only a few types of monsters in a dungeon makes it repetitive very quickly. Varied encounters with different types of monsters, often ones which the players will develop a 'whack-this-first' philosophy for some of them, is a good thing. It makes the combat a lot more interesting without neccecarily increasing the difficulty, though of course, difficulty is an important factor to make. If you have a dungeon with only one monster type and a single weakness, then the players can exploit that over and over again, and it gets pretty repetitive.
Point 3: Common sense with traps.
This one is a really big one I find that many designers do poorly every time. Why would some barracks have traps over the floor of some common meeting area, are they trying to harm themselves with this? Really, traps have to be handled carefully, usually in out-of-the-way areas, choke-points or easily defended areas(on the monsters side), or on large masses of treasure. Traps that come out in the middle of the floor for some random corridor doesn't make me very enthusiastic about it. There are plenty of ways to make traps enhance the experience, and to make it detract from it.

That said, I wanted to share a dungeon I made so far. I was pressed to make this in a week, just the way the campaign is going I may be able to spend some more time for the next lapse, but that won't strictly involve a dungeon, more like a town that is run by pirates, thieves, and other unscrupulous individuals. Aaanyways, this is a monastery dedicated to some capital E evil monks, it's been long since abandoned, around 60 years ago local peasants were tired of their bad reputation and they were removed. Since this is really about the dungeon design, I won't really go into too much detail about the plot, though the setting is important.
There are two parts to this, a map, and my DM notes. The map is simple, done with MS paint, I have a gridded verson and a not gridded version of each of the maps in this place. The visuals are functional for my needs. The second part are the DM notes, detailing what is in each section of the place, encounters, lootables, etc.... so without further adue, I give you:

Monastery of the Broken Spirit:

Monastery basement:


Please note that for below, the stuff in red is changed, it's plot based stuff that wouldn't really make sense without the background given previously in the campaign. I apologize to any non DnD players who want to read this for the architecture, but terms like DC show up quite often. DC means difficulty class, higher it is, the more difficult. I don't expect too many to be able to gauge this numerically, unfortunately.
DM notes:
Monastery of The Broken Spirit

Exterior:
The exterior of the monastery is largely an open plain, trees are existent but sparse. The monastery itself looks old and poorly maintained, but still made of sturdy stone. There are no spiky protrusions into the air, and no decoration on the outside, making it look simple and modest. There are six plant gardens on the outside, four of them are surrounded by crumbling wooden fencing, and two are left open. The two that are left open look trampled and few plants still live inside, grass has taken over once beautiful flowers. The other plant beds are not trampled, but still poorly maintained, and the plants look sickly, as if they needed care.
Monastery: Floor one:
The monastery interior is a crumbling structure. The floors and walls look to be made from some form of cobblestone. Tiny inconsistencies in the wall of the monastery will let light in from the outside, but don't allow for a consistent view. This place is fully lighted in the daytime. Some light gets in through the walls, though the ceiling tiles are somewhat loose, dangerously so, though they do allow light to pass in. The stones on the floor are quite solid, and look reinforced. A tracking check of DC 15 will indicate that small footprints can be seen throughout, indicating that some small biped creatures patrol the areas frequently. There are also some markings that indicate some kind of small quadruped inhabit the areas too.
South side: Entry hall
The door to the monastery is a crumbling wood, it looks rotten and is falling off of it's hinges. Inside the building itself, there are four eroded statues, and a torn and ravaged blue rug along the center of the floor. The rug itself is badly worn, with large chunks of it missing. On more solid sections, there are elegant designs of tears, of faces filled with sorrow, but most are indecipherable. Shame, it looks as though it was once a very expensive rug, but now little more than a ruin. The hall is about 25 feet wide, and 75 feet long. At the end of this hall is collapsed wreckage. It conceals a pair of staircases, but the rubble cannot be removed, short of using high explosives. There is a hallway leading westward 30 feet  north of the entrance, and a hallway leading eastward 45 feet north of the entrance.
Encounter notes: Giant rats can often be found in the entrance, nibbling at the rug.
Loot: None
Southwest:
This section of the building contains meditation cells. The halls are very narrow, and the cells are small. Each of the cells has a ruined rug within, similar to, but smaller than the one found in the entry hall. There are 18 cells in total.
Encounter notes: Giant rats can often be found in the cells.
Loot: Individual rugs may be sold for some small cash if they can be repaired.
Southeast:
This area contains the bedrooms. Bunk beds can be found in each of the rooms, there are four in total.
The Northwest one looks ravaged and looted. There is a rug on the floor that has taken extensive damage. Five beds are pitted against the east wall and the west wall, and there are three against the northern wall. There are some chests for belongings near each of the beds.
Encounter notes: This room contains 1d6+1 goblins, 1 goblin warrior, and 1 goblin adept.
Loot: Goblin's loot. The chests in this room have already been largely looted, torn and useless clothing and goblin puss can be found in some of them. (ick). A hidden stash of 25 gold can be found under one of the beds, search check DC 20.
The Southwest one looks much like the northwest one, there is a ruined rug here as well. The beds are closer together, there are six on the east and west walls and three on the south. The beds have small chests, again.
Encounter notes: This room contains 1d4+1 goblin warriors.
Loot: Goblin's loot. The chests in this room have also been looted, with torn clothing and puss found in some of them. There is a hidden stash in this room, a search check DC 20 will reveal a stash of 10 shuriken, a kama, a nunchunku, and a siangham.
The rug may be worth some money if repaired.
Southeast:
This one is sealed off by a locked door, DC 17 to open.
This is a smaller bedroom, but it is in far better condition than the other rooms. There are four beds on the east and west walls, and one on the south. There are chests in these rooms as well. There is a rug here, it is old looking, but it is still in reasonable condition.
Encounter notes: None
Loot: Total loot found in this room,
24 gold (in various containers), Potion of owl's insight, Potion of cure light wounds, Potion of bull's strength, Dusty tome (Not worth anything), Several monk's robes. (Nonmagical), Some spoiled rations, Some water, A 10 foot pole, Gardening tools, A knife, There is no secret loot in this room.
The rug may be worth some money if repaired.
Northeastern room:
This room is beyond a locked door, DC 20 OL check.
The rug in here is ruined, especially at the northern end. The beds in this room look worn, torn, and some of them, eaten. There is a large hole in the northeastern corner of this room, it is however, not large enough for a humanoid to go through. It can be widened with a pick, shovel, or some other tools, perhaps a heavy flail, with a strong character using it. It requires four successful strength checks at DC 30 to clear. 
Encounter notes: Worker giant ants sometimes show up here, they will likely run away from the PCs though, if not attacked.
Loot:
Inside the chests near the beds
4 gold, Potion of cure light wounds, the other loot in the chests is simply torn clothing, spoiled rations, and/or other useless items. There is a secret under one of the beds: DC 22 search check, there is a robe of focus, (Magical item) which gives +3 concentration.
The rug may be worth some money if repaired.

This area has passageways going to the main hall and the training hall in the center. The way to the training hall is blocked by fallen rubble. It can be removed with a pick, shovel, spade, or similar tool, and a strong character. DC 26 strength check to remove chunks away, 5 successful checks are required to clear a passage. A character can shimmy over the rubble with a DC 20 climb check.
Training hall(Center):
This room is large and open, with combat dummies dotted across the room. Most of them are battered and torn, and some are plain broken. The combat dummies provide 30% cover against ranged attacks should someone try to shoot through one. In the center of the room, there is a large, damaged deep blue rug, used as a training may by the monks that were here. It has few designs in it and is largely made to be practical, however, time, and goblins have damaged it, leaving it no longer valuable. A DC 15 listen check(automatic to anyone near the training hall) will reveal that there are a LOT of goblins there.
Encounter notes: MAJOR fight here. Spread throughout the room, there are:
3 goblin adepts.
3 goblin warriors.
9 regular goblins.
Spread throughout the room. There are two adepts at the south end of the room, below the training mat, and one above it. There are at least 1 warrior and 4 regular goblins infesting each side, positions may vary. It's a DC 15 listen check to hear their yapping from another section. They may organize into suitable defensive positions if they hear the party coming, though their exact positions should be scattered, and move around.
Loot: Goblin's standard loot, plus 30 gold.
The rug in this room is not as valuable as the others, but much larger. It can be sold if adequately repaired.
There are pathways that go to the meditation cells, to the bedrooms, and to a northern divide.
Northern divide:
There is nothing remarkable about this area, and has no monsters unless some flee from another location. The training room is to the south. To the north, there is a gigantic pile of rubble, which cannot be removed without high-explosives. To the east, there is another divide, east goes to the library, north of that location goes to a stairwell, which is blocked by a pile of rubble. A character can shimmy over it with a DC 20 climb check. It can also be cleared with four successful DC 26 strength checks made using a shovel, spade, or other digging tool. Beyond the blockage is a stairwell downwards.  To the west of the divide, there is a locked door and a storeroom beyond, it has a DC 20 open lock check attached to it.
Storeroom (Northwest):
Lots of barrels and crates are in here, most of them are damaged and have been ransacked. Most have been looted, or contain useless items. To the north of this area, there is a staircase that goes downwards.
Encounter notes: There are: 1d4 goblin warriors, 1 goblin adept.
Loot: Goblin loot, quarterstaff, spoiled rations, 2 waterskins, torn clothing. 
Library (Northeast):
The books here look torn and ravished, many have teeth marks or cuts along their surface, as well as the general wastage of time. Some of them are strewn across the floor
Encounter notes: Giant rats may be found in here, numbers vary
Loot: Aside from the books, which are useless, there is none. A DC 20 search check will reveal some scrolls, one of shield(arcane), cure light wounds(divine), and protection from chaos.
Abbot's chamber (Far north):
This room is actually neat, tidy, and shows signs of active use. There is a rug in this room, which isn't damaged. There is a door to the south, but the passage beyond is blocked by an impassable pile of rubble. There is a bed on the west side and a bookshelf on the east side. The shelves contain meditation and things that would interest a monk, but few others.
Encounter Notes: 1 Varhyn boss, plot encounter
Loot: +1 bracers of AC (from Varhyn), if they convince him to go back to the monastery of the Sun Soul, the abbot will reward them with +1 attack gloves. (+1 AB and damage when unarmed.). There is also a plot important item here. If they search the rubble from the north end, there is a +1 shuriken of returning if they succeed on a DC 22 search check.

Level 2: Monastery basement.

The atmosphere down here is damp and cold, the air is stiff, making breathing a bit slow. The floor is made out of cobblestone, and the walls here and on the floor are still in decent shape, but look old, and the floors show signs of recent use. The movements of small feet can be easily seen, but a tracking check of DC 17 shows that three larger sets of tracks, two of humans, and one of hobgoblins, can be found around the premises.
Northwest side:
A staircase goes up from here. Past that, there is a wide corridor. A pile of rubble can be found in the corridor, and can be cleared by 4 successful DC 26 strength checks with a digging tool, or can be accessed by a DC 20 climb check. There is a door to the west, it is old, but shows signs of recent use, it is currently falling off of it's hinges and is easily broken.
Encounter notes: Goblins can sometimes be found patrolling this area.
Loot: Goblin loot, if applicable.
West side (Training room):
This room shows frequent use, and looks similar to the training room in the upstairs floor with different dimensions. Combat dummies dot the area, they're not in good condition, but are in better condition than the ones upstairs. The dummies look as though they've been struck with weapons repeatedly, and look sturdier. There is also a rug on the floor in the center of the room. Predictably, it's quite extensively damaged. Blood stains cover it, both recent and old.
Encounter notes: 1d4 goblin warriors, 1d4+1 goblins.
Loot: Goblin loot. The rug in the center may be worth something if repaired. There is a secret door on the north end of the room, DC 20 to detect. If it is found, it can be opened. Inside, there are:
3 kamas, 3 siangham, 3 Nunchunkus, 3 quarterstaves, 50 shuriken, 1 masterwork kama, siangham, nunchuck, and quarterstaff.
Southwest side (Bedrooms)
This room looks like most of the other bedrooms, though it has seen far more recent use, and looks far more ravaged, but has indications that it was once a nice place. There are pieces of torn rug on the floor, likely destroyed by goblins. There are 9 beds here, each has a small chest in front of it, though all have been thoroughly ransacked. The door is sturdy, but unlocked. If locked... it could provide a safe resting place, well, relatively safe.
Encounter notes: 4 Goblins, 1d2 goblin warriors
Loot: Goblin loot, plus 5 gold.
Northeast side (Meditation room)
This room has a few small rugs along the floor, meant for meditation when the monks still lived here. Alas, goblins got here, ruined the rugs, and do all of the things that goblins do. There is a secret door to the north, and a DC 20 search check will find it. If they aren't distracted, a DC 22 listen check in this room will reveal faint whimpering coming from the north.
Inside the room, there is a kobold named Kyess. He looks malnourished, hungry, and scared, and spends his time whimpering, though he does keep a small crossbow on his belt. To calm him down, a DC 15 diplomacy or animal empathy check must be succeeded, repeat attempts can be made. A knowledge(hearth wisdom) check DC 15 can also be made to realize that kobolds respond well to being patted on the head, or hugged. This will calm him down as well.
Once this check is made, he will mention that he has gone more than a day without eating, give him some rations and water and he will be fully calmed down.
Once this is done, he has some useful information.
He was investigating the area for goblin presence, and for hunting treasure. He sneaked his way in, came in down a hole in the kitchen, found this secret door, and hid in it to evade the goblins. He did some poking around though, and if asked, he will mention that he saw two tall, black robed figures in the southeastern room. He also spotted a big mean hobgoblin with a large bow in the central dining hall, apparently bullying the other goblins into doing whatever he wants. He'll also say that groups of them occasionally patrol outside, he thinks there are three of them.
Encounter notes: 3 Goblins, 3 Goblin adepts.
Loot: Goblin loot, ruined rugs in the main room, tear shaped rug in the secret room which is in good condition. Kyess has a light crossbow, 50 bolts, a dagger, thieves tools, and possibly a color spray scroll if killed.
East side (Kitchen)
This room has some barrels on the north end, but most of it has been eaten. Cooking equipment and some water barrels are on the south end. The main things of note here are the two holes, the larger one jutting from the ceiling, and a smaller one going down. The larger one can only be climbed up if the characters have some rope, and it was widened from the top. The one going down can't be traversed, but giant ants can be found coming in and out of this room.
Encounter notes: 25% chance to encounter 1d4 giant worker ants.
Loot: None
Southeast room (Dueling room)
A large rug is on the floor, ripped and torn, and covered in dried blood, some recent, some old. There are weapon racks on the west side, but all have been looted and they're badly damaged.
Encounter notes: 2 Goblin warriors, 2 goblins
Loot: Goblin loot.
Southern storerooms.
East side one:
This room shows signs of recent use and has been thoroughly ransacked. Little remains here. The barrels, crates, and racks here mostly contain broken weapons, torn clothing, spoiled food, and some broken tools. There is also a small bookshelf, used to keep records. Alas, most of the papers contained within are torn and now completely unreadable.
Encounter notes: 2 goblin warriors, 2 goblin adepts
West side one:
The outer door (see map) requires a DC 20 search check to find. Inside, a plain warning is shown "Unauthorized personnel are not allowed beyond, proceed at your own peril." The next obstacle is a locked door, DC 20 to open. The next obstacle is a trap, DC 16 to find and disable. If tripped, it's a spike trap, for 1d6+2 damage, DC 14 reflex half. The next thing is a trapped locked door. DC 22 to open, DC 17 to find and disable the trap. If sprung, it shoots a poisoned dart. The dart itself does 1d4 points of damage, then applies poison. Save is DC 14 fort, else it deals 1d6 dexterity damage. It applies secondary damage an hour later, save is DC 14 fort, this time deals 1d6 constitution damage. Next, there is a trap on the floor, DC 16 to find and disable, if tripped, it's another spike trap, 1d6+2 damage, DC 14 reflex for half. Finally, there is a last trap, DC 18 to find and disable. If tripped, it shoots 4 shuriken at it's target, and gets a +3 AB, the target is flatfooted when this is tripped. Each shuriken deals 1d3 damage, and can get critical hits. Finally, to the south, there is a secret door, it needs a DC 20 search check to find and is DC 22 to open it.
Inside the room, there are various barrels, crates, and storage containers, they look old, but it looks as if no one has been here in a long time. The supplies here are still intact... mostly.
Encounter notes: There are no monsters in this room
Loot:
Pickaxe, shovel, 250 gold,  Cloak of elvenkind + 5, 6 potions of cure light wounds, 1 Everburning Torch, Jumping Boots + 5, Masterwork Thieves tools.

Center (Dining Hall)
This room is massive. There are tables set about, with wooden benches alongside them. Alas, they're crumbling and decrepit. Broken plates, bowls, and crumbs from food items can be seen about. There is a staircase to the south, however it is blocked by rubble and is inaccessible.
Encounter notes: Major concentration of goblins here, however, some of them can be occasionally be found patrolling the hallways. The main obstacle here is Zarknlog, a vicious hobgoblin who keeps the goblins in this area in line...  sort of. He'll attack on sight like most of the goblins here.
Staying forces: 1 Zarknlog(mini boss), 3 goblin warriors. 3 goblins
Patrol 1: 3 goblins, 1 goblin warrior
Patrol 2: 3 goblins, 1 goblin adept.
Patrol 3: 5 goblins
It is set up so that at least one patrol is out all of the time. Hearing them takes a DC 15 listen check, and is made automatically when they get close.
Loot: Goblin loot, Zarknlog drops a masterwork mighty + 2 composite longbow, 50 gold,
North(Meeting hall)
This room has a large table in the center, and seats to match. The seat at the north end is larger than the others, but in no better condition. The table and seats look old and ravaged. Two dead goblins are on the north end. They look like they have been dead for a while, and kind of smell bad. There is a spiral staircase going upwards at the northern end.
Encounter notes: None, but goblins who flee from the dining hall may rush in here.
Loot: None.

Monsters found here, and their important stats:
Giant rat:
Alignment: Neutral-nonaligned
HP: 6
Init: 3
AC: 15 Touch: 14 Flatfoot: 11
Saves: 2/3/1
Attack:
Bite: AB: 2, Damage: 1d4+1, On hit disease fort save DC 13, incubation 1d3 days, 1d3 dex and con damage. 20X2
Major skills: Hide: 11, Move silently: 7
Can be targeted with animal empathy. A DC 11 check will prevent them from attacking. A DC 16 check can convince them to follow a person with animal empathy around. They tend to hiss and squeak before attacking, but tend not to be outright aggressive.
Loot: none
Giant worker ant:
Alignment: Neutral-Nonaligned
HP: 9
Init: 0
AC: 17 Touch: 10 Flatfoot: 17
Saves: 3/0/0
Attack:
Bite: AB: 1, Damage: 1d6, a hit will start a grapple check, ants get +1 to their check. 20X2
Major skills: Spot 4, Listen 4
These ants are workers, not fighters, they try to avoid combat, so aren't immediately hostile if they see the PCs. Animal empathy won't work on them.
Loot: none
Goblin:
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
HP: 5
Init: 1
AC: 12 Touch 12 Flatfoot: 11
Saves: 5/1/0
Attack:
Morningstar: AB: 0, Damage: 1d6-1 20X2
Throwing Dagger(3): AB: 2, Damage: 1d3-1, range: 10 ft 19-20X2
Major skills: none
Loot: Small morningstar, 3 small daggers (get used up)
Desc: There isn't really anything special about these goblins, they're just sadistic, cowardly, dumb, greedy, attack on sight... standard goblin routine.
Goblin Warrior:
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
HP: 10
Init: 1
AC: 14 Touch 12 Flatfoot: 13
Saves: 4/1/0
Attack:
Longsword: AB: 4, Damage: 1d6+1, 19-20X2
Javelin(2): AB: 3, Damage: 1d4+1, 30 ft 20X2
Major Skills: Spot 4
Loot: Small Longsword, Small Javelin, Small shield
Desc: These are much like the other goblins, just a tad tougher.
Goblin Adept:
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
HP: 7
Init: 1
AC: 13 Touch: 12 Flatfoot: 12
Saves: 1/1/3
Attack:
Sling(10): AB 2 Damage 1d3-1, 50 ft 20X2
Shortspear: AB 0 Damage 1d6-1 20X3
Spells:
2 Cause Fear (DC 14)
2 Cure Minor Wounds
1 Guidance
Major Skills: Concentration 5
Loot: Small Shortspear, 10 sling stones, small sling.
Desc: These goblins are like the others, just with some spells to bully their other goblin kin, and you.
Zarknlog:
Alignment: Neutral Evil
HP: 13
Init: 4
AC: 18 Touch 14 Flatfoot 14
Saves: 5/4/1
Attack:
MightyLongbow(50): AB: 6 or 4/4, Damage 1d8+2, 110 ft 20X3, has point blank shot.
Greatsword: AB 3, Damage: 2d6+3, 19-20X2
Major Skills: Listen 3, Spot 3, Intimidate 2
Loot: Masterwork Mighty+2 Composite Longbow, Greatsword, 50 arrows, 50 GP
Desc: Hobgoblin miniboss, he is a really deadly ranged combatant.. it's probably best to try and close or to exploit his low will save.
Varhyn:
Alignment: Lawful Evil
HP: 20
Init: 2
AC: 16 Touch 15 Flatfoot: 14
Saves: 5/5/6
Attack:
Unarmed Strike: AB: 5 or 3/3, Damage: 1d6+3 20X2
Abilities:
Stunning fist 2x/day, DC 14
Deflect Arrows,
Evasion
Major Skills: Tumble 7, Listen 8, Hide 7, Move Silently 7, Balance 9
Loot: Plot items, Bracers of armor AC +1
Kyess:
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
HP: 6
Init: 4
AC: 16 Touch 15 Flatfoot: 12
Saves: 0/6/0
Attack:
Light Crossbow(50), AB: 5, Damage: 1d6, 80 ft, 19-20X2, Has point blank shot
Dagger: AB: 0, Damage: 1d3-1, 19-20X2
Abilities:
Sneak attack 1d6
Major Skills: Use Magic Device 7, Tumble 8, Spot 4, Search 8, Open Lock 8, Move Silently 8, Listen 4, Hide 12, Disable Device 6, Climb 3


Comments? Criticisms? At the moment, I'm mostly looking for critiques of my design, mostly architecturally, but comments about the encounters would be nice too.
Regardless, I hope you enjoy. :)

Ryudo Lee

I'd be interested in seeing what else you come up with.  I've been running games for years and my dungeon designs are fairly on par with what you've put here.  Although lately I've been doing some things on the fly, and only plotting out larger dungeons.  You ever considered putting together a campaign world?

Thanks to Taski & Silverfoxr for the artwork!



WhiteFox

#2
Sadly, I can't really give a lot of feedback on this since I don't play much DnD. I did note a few things, tho.

There isn't any mention of sentries on the first floor watching for people approaching the Monastery, or, say, archers that might open fire on people approaching the structure. In general, the front door of a structure is the first line of defence. Failing that, sentries that attack from cover at a range as people come in the front door.

You noted the ceiling was somewhat decrepit. The monsters could trap a section to collapse on the players, or the players might try to collapse a section of it on the monsters in combat.

All the monsters seem to have stock equipment. If you're worried about spicing things up, I've found it's fun to give some of the bad guys an ace in the hole. Usually a one shot item to use in combat or a piece of gear that changes how they can fight (like, walking on the walls. Or leaping great distances.). Not necessarily something that makes them tougher, but something that can let them alter their tactics.

You did bring up a few interesting points about dungeon design. I don't play DnD, but I do a lot of WhiteWolf tabletop gaming as a player and a GM. (I prefer WhiteWolf games cuz it's easier to bullshit and fudge improvise and adapt, and I like to be flexible)

Quote from: The1Kobra on December 10, 2008, 03:06:31 PM
Point 1: Linearity.
If you make a plan, the PC's will find a way to ruin it. The more strictly, methodically, and carefully a dungeon is planned, the harder it will be raped horribly. Experienced players are devious bastards, and will come at a GM from entirely unpredictable directions. Sometimes it's not even on purpose: the PC's might just find solutions to the problems that weren't planned for that make perfect sense. Besides, it's no fun when the GM makes the players do exactly what they're supposed to do.

In my experience... it's as important to stay loose and learn to improvise as it is to plan carefully. I like to present a situation, and let the PCs figure out how to deal with it. If they come up with something really clever, I toss some RPing XP around. It lets the players get creative, which is the biggest advantage tabletop RPGs have over console/PC RPGs.

Quote from: The1Kobra on December 10, 2008, 03:06:31 PM
Point 2: Variety.
I have fun mixing up the setting and environment (this comes up in V:TM games, because for the most part you're fighting vampires, and... well, more vampires). Put spikes on the walls. An explosive barrel or two. Or my favorite: plop a loaded ballista in the middle of the room and see which side reaches it first. Stuff the monsters or the players can take advantage of. This is great for dealing with players that are one trick ponies, or min/maxed. Clever players with rounded characters can usually adapt to situations, or even turn the situation back on an enemy.

Quote from: The1Kobra on December 10, 2008, 03:06:31 PM
Point 3: Common sense with traps.
Setting aside whether or not a trap is sensibly placed, arbitrary and prolific traps can make PCs paranoid. A party can fret and dither over how to proceed through the most mundane of situations, like walking down a hallway or examining a bedroom. That can slow down a game to a snails pace.

Anyway... hope the game goes well.
This is my pencil. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My pencil is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life...

llearch n'n'daCorna

The thought I had about traps was "traps that don't set until you've walked past them once."

Or ones that won't go off if you walk into them, only when you try to walk back out...
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"We found Scientology!" -- The Bad Idea Bears

Noone

Quote from: Fox NaBan on December 10, 2008, 10:00:56 PM
There isn't any mention of sentries on the first floor watching for people approaching the Monastery, or, say, archers that might open fire on people approaching the structure. In general, the front door of a structure is the first line of defence. Failing that, sentries that attack from cover at a range as people come in the front door.
Yeah... I guess I did miss that to an extent. I probably should have put something on the exterior, likely giant rats. Goblins of course, aren't very intelligent or well organized... so I guess it's at least plausible. I actually remember hearing a complaint on another campaign that "orcs aren't supposed to be able to make plans this well thought out". There is also the fact that the goblins probably don't have a way up onto the roof, I know one of the players got on top with the help of their druids polar bear, but they're the assault force, not the defense force. Still, I'll probably keep that in mind when designing other areas, one of the areas I'm doing later on is some noble's mansion, where the players are being sent to steal something. The guards there are (hopefully) a good deal more intelligent.

QuoteYou noted the ceiling was somewhat decrepit. The monsters could trap a section to collapse on the players, or the players might try to collapse a section of it on the monsters in combat.
I didn't think of that. Still, they're first level characters, I don't think they would be able to damage even weakened stone that easily. They won't get strong explosives until later.

QuoteAll the monsters seem to have stock equipment. If you're worried about spicing things up, I've found it's fun to give some of the bad guys an ace in the hole. Usually a one shot item to use in combat or a piece of gear that changes how they can fight (like, walking on the walls. Or leaping great distances.). Not necessarily something that makes them tougher, but something that can let them alter their tactics.
Very nice point there, and you've actually given me a good idea for my next set of areas, (which take place in a town run by pirates and theives). I'll probably give some of the thieves and rogues there some scrolls, which will hopefully add to the experience.

QuoteIn my experience... it's as important to stay loose and learn to improvise as it is to plan carefully. I like to present a situation, and let the PCs figure out how to deal with it. If they come up with something really clever, I toss some RPing XP around. It lets the players get creative, which is the biggest advantage tabletop RPGs have over console/PC RPGs.
Yep, I've been learning that with my sessions, (aka the thing with the polar bear), I try to stay flexible when possible, it's more of an issue with the plot I think though. Generally, I put the most likely routes I think the players are going to take in my notes.

QuotePut spikes on the walls. An explosive barrel or two. Or my favorite: plop a loaded ballista in the middle of the room and see which side reaches it first. Stuff the monsters or the players can take advantage of. This is great for dealing with players that are one trick ponies, or min/maxed. Clever players with rounded characters can usually adapt to situations, or even turn the situation back on an enemy.
Those are certainly some interesting ideas, they would have to fit the setting though. 

Thanks for the commentary, I'll probably have my next one up in a week, though with my current workload, it might take me a bit longer.

QuoteYou ever considered putting together a campaign world?
A world all on it's own? Maybe when I have more time, but I certainly don't see myself doing so in the near future unless I had a large amount of spare time. I certainly wasn't too careful with drawing out every point of interest in the local region the players are in.I did draw a crude map but it wasn't very detailed. Mostly when the players want to go someplace, I either make a check to see if their characters know how to get there, or they'll have to pick up a map someplace, neither of which are really all that hard.

llearch n'n'daCorna

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"We found Scientology!" -- The Bad Idea Bears

WhiteFox

Quote from: The1Kobra on December 11, 2008, 07:01:28 PM
Yeah... I guess I did miss that to an extent. I probably should have put something on the exterior, likely giant rats. Goblins of course, aren't very intelligent or well organized... so I guess it's at least plausible.

They might have hunters out in the surrounding area. Even goblins gotta eat, right? I mean, nothing but giant rats all the time must get boring.  :3

Quote from: The1Kobra on December 11, 2008, 07:01:28 PM
I actually remember hearing a complaint on another campaign that "orcs aren't supposed to be able to make plans this well thought out".

What they mean is, "We don't like it when the monsters do something sensible because then we have to think about what we're doing." :U If a monster is smart enough to use a bow or a sword, I think they're smart enough to put guards on choke points and shoot from cover. Then again, goblins probably aren't that smart, and I suppose this is a novice group.
This is my pencil. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My pencil is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life...

Corgatha Taldorthar

He's referring to one of my campaigns with the "orcs aren't that smart", and it wasn't having patrols  on choke points or shoot from cover, it was more along the lines of "Have magical wards detect intruders along a magical maze, shift the walls around so that the intruders always enter into the most heavily guarded areas, and move in to cut off their flanks and rear, relying on pinpoint precision timing because your various forces can't communicate with each other effectively." And they did have a point in that instance......... Especially in D&D, I don't think they give intelligence scores to non-spellcasting monsters just for the fun of it, low intelligence creatures should act stupidly IMO.
Someday, when we look back on this, we'll both laugh nervously and change the subject. More is good. All is better.

WhiteFox

Huh... yeah, I could see that being a bit of a stretch.
This is my pencil. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My pencil is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life...

Noone

#9
Hoookay, the week before the break has been somewhat stressful, and one of the sessions was held an hour and a half late... so the game is progressing along slowly and my new area designing is progressing even more slowly. My proff-comm teacher was kind enough to leave me plenty of homework over the vacation, so I probably won't get to the other half until after the break. Cheers :/. Anyways, enough of my bellyaching, the next area they're led to is a warehouse filled with pirates, ninjas, and wizards... no joke, actually, the area they're supposed to be in, there is a big power struggle between a large group of pirates, a thieves guild, and another guild which has wizard/rogues... eh, let me not continue babbling and show what's done so far.
Currently, only half of this area is done, there's another map involved, aka the warehouse itself, the exterior is done, and it's somewhat sparse, whereas the interior is a lot more 'dungeony', I guess the best thing to compare it to would be one of those warehouses if you've played the godfather video game, only you're using crossbows, rapiers, and fireballs in the place of shotguns. One of the things I am preparing for the interior is that the guards ARE intelligent and will mass on the player's location if they try the foot-in-the-door method, suffice to say there are probably better ways of going about that, actually, it's possible to get through this area(exterior anyways, on the interior I want to be able to design it so that if they're not alerted, they don't really have to go through too much combat to get what they want to get, adding some reward for stealth-play) without a single fight at all, though of course, the players might get into one if they have bad move silently...
I also tried to make the monsters a bit more varied this time around, sadly that part is hard to pick up for those who don't play the game, oh well, I guess the level layout is what I'm after.
Ehh ehhm, my notes, yes, I'll probably edit this post once the warehouse interior is done.
Just as a reminder, blue terrain (aside from the windows) isn't yet made.


Warehouse (Exterior)


The south side of the warehouse area is walled off with a sturdy material. It is about 10 feet tall, but could possibly be scaled with proper equipment and skill. Damaging it would be difficult.
The exterior of this warehouse is very quiet, but it shows plenty of signs of recent activity. The paved floors look as though many steps have been crossed over them and the grass looks recently traversed. From the central area, the main warehouse can be seen to the north. It's a large structure, about  On the sides, there look to be poorly maintained wooden buildings. They still look sturdy, but show signs of age and a lack of maintenance. Doors line the walls, many of them barred shut. The doors themselves can be bashed down, but the wooden walling is still quite sturdy and cannot be bashed with ordinary weaponry. Fire can be used to clear sections of wooden structure, but is likely to raise an alarm. 
Just to note, the enemies here (should be) intelligent. They will run and get help if outnumbered, try to ambush the party if they spot them first but still remain undetected. The exceptions to this rule are the crooked guards and the half-orc thugs. Some of them have shifts, they change at game time 8:00 PM and 8:00 AM.
(South Side)
At the entrance, there are two crooked guards, they won't let the group in without some coaxing. A DC 14 intimidate check can get them to allow entrance if made, and a DC 18 bluff check can get in as well. Of course, violence can solve this as well.
(central area)
The area here is mostly paved, though some sections remain grassy. On the sides are wooden structures, and locked and otherwise blocked doors dot the area. At the north end, there are 6 pirates behind windows at the warehouse. The windows grant 50% cover against return fire. To the far north, there is a main door that leads to the rest of the warehouse. This door is sturdier than the others, and has a better lock. It takes a DC 23 OL check to open. It has 25 HP and a hardness of 7.
Doors: (east side, bottom to top)
The southernmost door is locked, barred, and spiked from the other side. There is a window on the south side that can be smashed in and grants entry.
The door above that is locked and barred.
The two doors above are locked.
These doors have 15 HP and a hardness of 5 for bashing purposes.
Most Doors take a DC 20 OL check, taking off the bars requires the correct tool and a strength check, DC 25. Door spikes can only be removed from the other side.
West Side:
Areas next to the wooden wall on the west side,
This door is locked, barred, and spiked from the other side. Removing the lock takes a DC 20 OL check, prying off the bars takes a DC 25 strength check, and the spikes may only be removed from the other side. There is however, a secret door on the southern edge, DC 20 search to find. The house behind is empty. There are two beds in the northern room, but otherwise, nothing else is here. There is a locked door going to the westward exit, but it's unlocked from the back. (DC 20 OL to open on the other side)
Loot: None
Encounter: None
The second door from the main alley is locked and barred. Removing the lock takes a DC 20 OL check, prying off the bars takes a DC 25 strength check. Behind it in the first room, there are some crates, most of them are empty. In the other room, there is a table with two seats.
Loot: (In crates:) 1 Bless Scroll, 1 Bane Scroll, 1 Cure light wounds potion.
Encounter: 2 Pirates(Daytime only), sitting at the table.
The northernmost door is locked with a DC 20 check to open.  Barrels line the northern and southern ends of this place, with empty shelves above them.
Loot: There is mostly food and water here, it's still in reasonable condition. A DC 20 search check in this room reveals a masterwork dagger hidden in the mix.
Encounter: None
The south-west corner has a small building, it's mostly abandoned, but there are some shelves here for various items, though most are empty. There is a table, with two seats on the east and west sides.
Loot: Potion of Cure light wounds, 40 arrows, bolts, and sling bullets, studded leather armor, 3 large shield.
Encounter: 2 Cutpurses.
In the building to it's north, empty barrels are placed along the walls, not much of note is here.
Loot: a DC 20 search check in the main room will find scrolls of magic missile and protection from evil. A DC 20 search check in the south room will find scrolls of bless and shield of faith.
Encounter: 2 Arcane Tricksters inhabit this building, one is in the southern storeroom of it and one is by the two windows.
The building north of that is a bedroom of sorts. Bunk beds line the walls, apparently the guards here take shifts. This building looks to be in far better condition than the others on this side. Note that the guards on this side will try to sneak or run here if they spot intruders. They may also at times, change shifts, at which point they will be on the outside, but only for a brief time.
Loot: 50 gp, 20 crossbow bolts, masterwork rapier, masterwork shortsword, masterwork light crossbow.
Encounter: 2 Pirates, 2 Cutpurses, 2 Arcane Tricksters.
The northernmost building on the west side is conspicuously empty. However, there is a secret door on the northwestern corner, DC 20 to find.
East Side:
Buildings, from bottom to top.
The southernmost building here is abandoned. Broken furniture, tables, chairs, and more dot the area. The door on the side is spiked, locked, and barred. There is a window to the south that can be smashed in and climbed through. DC 13 climb check to get in. There are some stairs up on the south end, containing a room with more wooden objects. There is also a window to the east side in the top room. It can be smashed open, however, getting down may be difficult and getting back up may be more so. (Or hope they bring rope) Simply jumping out the window will inflict 1d6 points of subdual damage, unless a DC 15 jump check is made.
In the building north of that, there are shelves along the walls, most of them contain weapons and leather vests, though a good deal are empty. The door on the west is locked and barred, the door on the east is locked.
Loot: 10 leather armor, 50 bolts, 2 light crossbows, 10 clubs, 10 daggers.
Encounter: Guarding the east door of this building are 2 half-orc thugs. Note that the half-orc thugs will simply attack if they see intruders and not run and get help. (aka, they're dumb).
To note, to the north of this building, theres a small alleyway. On the yellow X marked on the map, a DC 20 search check will reveal a masterwork longsword.
The building to the north of that is in shoddy condition, but is still inhabited. There are crates along the walls, and a table in one of the rooms. The door on the west end is unlocked from the east side and a DC 20 OL check from the west side.
Loot: There are some cheap gems, cloth, other trade goods here, worth a total of about 40 gold, most of the storage containers are empty.
Encounter: 2 Divine Tricksters, 2 Arcane Tricksters.
The northernmost building on this side is a residential area. The barrels and crates in the northern section contain rations and water. The southern room of this area contains sleeping quarters and personal storage containers.
Loot: A lot of rations and water, 50 gp, 40 crossbow bolts, masterwork light crossbow, masterwork club, masterwork dagger.
Encounter: 2 Half-Orc Thugs, 2 Divine Tricksters, 2 Arcane Tricksters.
There is a secret door (DC 20 search) at the northeast corner of the area.

Enemies found here, and their important stats:

Crooked Guard:
Alignment: Neutral
HP: 16
Init: 0
AC: 16 Touch 10 Flatfoot 16
Saves: 2/0/0
Attack:
Longsword: AB: 4, Damage: 1d8+2, 19-20X2
Loot: Longsword, Large shield, 10 gp.

Pirate:
Alignment: 25% Neutral, 25% Chaotic Neutral, 25% Neutral Evil, 25% Chaotic Evil
HP: 11
Init: 3
AC: 15 Touch: 13 Flatfoot: 12
Saves: 3/3/0
Attack:
Rapier/Shortsword: AB: 3/2, Damage: 1d6+1/1d6 18-20X2/19-20X2
Light Crossbow: AB 4, Damage 1d8 19-20X2, 80ft
Abilities:
Pirate taunt: Selected ability. Taunt may be used on any intelligent target within 30ft of the pirate. The ability makes an opposed roll, the pirate rolls his taunt against the target's Concentration ranks + will. If the taunt is higher, then the target's AC is reduced by 1. If it is higher by 10, then it reduces AC by 2. A taunted character will always attack the pirate if they are in range for melee combat. A taunt lasts 5 rounds, or if the taunter dies.
Major skills: Balance 7, Taunt* 5, Swim 5
Loot: Rapier, Short Sword, Light Crossbow, 20 Bolts, 10 gp.

Cutpurse:
Alignment: 25% Neutral, 25% Chaotic Neutral, 25% Neutral Evil, 25% Chaotic Evil.
HP: 10
Init: 3
AC: 15, Touch: 13, Flatfoot: 12
Saves: 0/6/0
Attack:
Dagger/Dagger: AB: 2/2, Damage: 1d4/1d4, 19-20X2/19-20X2
Hand Crossbow: AB: 4, Damage: 1d4, 19-20X2, 30 ft.
Abilities:
Sneak Attack: 1d6
Evasion
These rogues often have a magic scroll on them, which they can utilize their Use Magic Device skill to use. DC is 15 + spell level.
They have an even chance of having one of the following:
Color Spray
Mage Armor
Magic Weapon
Sleep
Bless
Cure Light Wounds
Bane
Invisibility.
Major Skills: Balance 10, Escape Artist 8, Hide 8, Listen 5, Move silently 8, Pick Pocket 8, Spot 5, Tumble 8, Use Magic Device 6
Loot: 2 Daggers, Hand Crossbow, 20 bolts, 10 gp, possibly a scroll.
Half-Orc Thug
HP: 15
Init: 1
AC: 13, Touch: 11, Flatfoot: 12
Saves: 3/4/-1
Attack:
Club: AB: 6, Damage 1d6+6
Light Crossbow: AB: 2, Damage 1d8, 19-20X2, 80ft
Abilities:
Sneak attack 1d6
Evasion
Major Skills: Balance 7, Escape Artist 5, Intimidate 3, Listen 4, Pick Pocket 5, Tumble 5
Loot: Club

Arcane Trickster:
Alignment: Lawful Evil
HP: 10
Init: 3
AC: 13, Touch 13, Flatfoot 10
Saves: 1/5/2
Attack:
Shortsword/Shortsword: AB: 1/1, Damage: 1d6/1d6, 19-20X2/19-20X2
Light Crossbow: AB: 3, Damage: 1d8, 19-20X2
Spells:
2 Daze
1 Detect Magic
1 Mending
3 of (Mage armor, Magic Weapon, Sleep, Spider Climb)
Abilities:
Sneak Attack 1d6
Loot: 2 Shortswords, Light Crossbow, 20 Crossbow Bolts, 10 gp.

Divine Trickster:
Alignment: 50% Chaotic Neutral, 50% Neutral Evil
HP: 12
Init: 3
AC: 15 Touch 13 Flatfoot 12
Saves: 3/5/4
Attack:
Rapier/Shortsword: AB: 1/1, Damage: 1d6/1d6, 18-20X2, 19-20X2
Spells:
1 Guidance
1 Resistance
1 Virtue
1 Entropic Shield
2 of (Bless, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith)

techmaster-glitch

Question: What do you do/how do you reproduce these maps full-size? An image on a computer is useless. I've done an Eberron campaign, and for the first adventure I used the premade on in the back of the Campaign Setting book. For the maps, I had to get out some wrapping paper, use a yardstick to draw a full-sized grid on the back, and then use a sharpie to make the terrain. Took quite a bit of effort. Though it was much awesome, ever since then, whenever the group had an encounter, we just used cardboard tile terrain.
Avatar:AMoS



Noone

Generally, I actually use the image and the notes in the game, I don't really see how a computer image is useless. If it's too small for the eye to see, I could always use the zoom-tool in MSpaint. I could also print it out if I didn't want to bring my computer, but that would mean printing out a lot of notes too. One of the players has a little whiteboard that he brings, so when we play the game, I draw what section of the map they're in at the moment, erase and replace when they get to a new area.

techmaster-glitch

Quote from: The1Kobra on December 22, 2008, 08:32:17 AM
One of the players has a little whiteboard that he brings, so when we play the game, I draw what section of the map they're in at the moment, erase and replace when they get to a new area.
That's what I was referring to, sorry. I meant "what do you actually play on?" I know the premade computer images are great for having laid out what you plan to do, but how you actually do it was my question.

A whiteboard...interesting...
Avatar:AMoS



Noone

It's surprisingly convenient, since I can rapidly draw and collapse parts of whatever area they're at. Sometimes I wish it were a bit larger, but I haven't had to deal with too much of that. Mostly I just draw what the players can see, and re-draw when they move on. I could always use a pencil and paper though if that ever becomes an issue.

Max Wolf

when i play i have a grid map to use it is about  4x big as a poster and u can use dry earse markers on it  so it works out great