“pregnancy pact”. What is wrong with these girls?

[Castle Pokemetroid]

the irritation about this is not girls being pregnant too young, or any of the related items

the irritation is that people now treat pregnancy as a fashion accessory.

pregnancy is beautiful, its life in its purest form, its a statement of maturity and sexuality, it is NOT stickers on your cellphone or an expensive pair of shoes

And I wonder if they know at all that pregnacy dosen't last forever.

[Reese Tora]

Can you stand here, look me in the eye, and tell me that these girls, aged 14 to 18, can have a child and avoid doing what I just outlined above? I don't think you can. They can be the best mothers in the world, but they are still being irresponsible and inconsiderate.

I can.

How, then? Tell me how you expect these girls will support themself and thier child without providing a poor quality of life or putting a burden on thier relatives?

[Valynth]

Did I ever say they will be bad parents? No? I didn't think so.  Whether they will be good parents or not is not the question.  If you cannot provide basic necesities to yourself and your child (food, a roof over your head) you are being irresponsible. period. A child should not be raised in a box in an alley. 

If you put a burden on your relatives because you cannot provide them yourself, you are being inconsiderate and irresponsible.  It doesn't matter if they don't mind supporting you or your child, it doesn't matter if they are willing to take over all responsibility and care for your child, it is still inconsiderate.

Can you stand here, look me in the eye, and tell me that these girls, aged 14 to 18, can have a child and avoid doing what I just outlined above? I don't think you can. They can be the best mothers in the world, but they are still being irresponsible and inconsiderate.

I can.

So all women under 18 in the world are wealthy enough to support themselves AND their offspring without having a job?

And here I though those who lived only on welfare lived in shitty slums or tailer parks.

[Eibborn]

Is it that strange of an idea that they might get jobs? Not to mention that there are usually facilities and programs to help young mothers take care of their children. Certainly my high school had a day care program.

And what is family for if not to help you when you need it? Why are you sure that it's an unwanted burden, to help raise a child? It costs money, yes, but I think that family transcends that.

[Valynth]

Is it that strange of an idea that they might get jobs? Not to mention that there are usually facilities and programs to help young mothers take care of their children. Certainly my high school had a day care program.

And what is family for if not to help you when you need it? Why are you sure that it's an unwanted burden, to help raise a child? It costs money, yes, but I think that family transcends that.

So the family should pay for my golden-plated toilet seat just because I want one and choose to have one?

In the end, the cost is about the same as having a child.  Especially if you get him/her a proper education.

[Reese Tora]

Is it that strange of an idea that they might get jobs? Not to mention that there are usually facilities and programs to help young mothers take care of their children. Certainly my high school had a day care program.

And what is family for if not to help you when you need it? Why are you sure that it's an unwanted burden, to help raise a child? It costs money, yes, but I think that family transcends that.

Yes, these do exist, but then, I ask... should she put a burden on random strangers?  The government, despite what so many of the populace of the USofA seem to think, does not exist for the purpose of bailing individuals out when they make stupid mistakes.

Yes, your family should help you if you are in need.  Yes, your community should be willing to help out when you are in need.  No, you are still being inconsiderate and irresponsible to place yourself in need when you can avoid it.

It is not a question of these girls' ability to raise a child, it is not a question of what support structures are in place to deal with their pregnancies*, it's a question of people THINKING, weighing the consequences of their actions, and being responsible and considerate towards their family, their community, and their potential children.

The law allows me to collect welfare rather than work (admittedly, it's now limited), but it is neither responsible nor considerate for me to do so when I am full well capable of working and sustaining myself.  I can choose to give money and aid to someone who is in need, but I am not required or expected to do so, and such aid should not be taken as granted.

(*Community support structures that exist because the problem of teen pregnancy existed and was seen as something that needed to have allowances made for, I might add.  Just because a solution is developed or allowances are made when a problem is found to exist does not make intentionally causing the problem OK.)

--edit--

And, yes, they can get jobs, but what about the child? the pregnancy? medical bills? daycare? what sort of job can a highschool student, recent graduate, or, potentially, dropout, get?  We are talking about young teenagers, some of whom are not yet old enough to work legally, period.  The fourteen year old from the article will still be a year off from being legal to work at the time she gives birth.  Heck, at fourteen, some of these girls might still be in middleschool, not highschool!

Honestly, if a girl chooses to get pregnant, and has a plan and support and is legally old enough to get a job, to become a legally emancipated youth, and is committed to the course of action, then by all means, go for it, I could care less, but that does not appear to be the case in the article, in most cases it isn't the case, and the it's the fact they these girls are just doing it without a thought or care that makes me so vehement.

[gh0st]

the sad thing is that these people will be ruling the government, i can see it now, president bimbo pushed the mandatory premarital/age/responsibility sex law into affect, millions are starving already as it is, many more are to follow in the wake of this horrible decision. in other news paris hilton has yet gotten another dog and Oprah has ascended into godhood for housing every single child once again.

yeah, the earth is doomed, i say the sane few that are left board a giant space ship with a colonization setup and move to mars... at least then we can start fresh.

[Alondro]

Do not fear.

I am Charles.

The plan is proceeding as predicted.

Soon all shall be ready for my ascension!   

[Faerie Alex]

the sad thing is that these people will be ruling the government, i can see it now, president bimbo pushed the mandatory premarital/age/responsibility sex law into affect, millions are starving already as it is, many more are to follow in the wake of this horrible decision. in other news paris hilton has yet gotten another dog and Oprah has ascended into godhood for housing every single child once again.

yeah, the earth is doomed, i say the sane few that are left board a giant space ship with a colonization setup and move to mars... at least then we can start fresh.

Dude, people have been saying things like that since Socrates, but civilization has yet to end. I can't really see how some -complete- airhead would end up running our government. And maybe we are in a downward trend right now...but I have confidence that sanity will win eventually.

(Also, an aside, these comments are nothing against you personally. I'm just tired of everyone (maybe not, but it feels like it sometimes) saying how my generation is going to muck things up so badly when we take over.)

[Eibborn]

So the family should pay for my golden-plated toilet seat just because I want one and choose to have one?

In the end, the cost is about the same as having a child.  Especially if you get him/her a proper education.

It is my personal opinion that there is a substantial difference between a child and a toilet seat. But maybe that's just me.

Yes, these do exist, but then, I ask... should she put a burden on random strangers?  The government, despite what so many of the populace of the USofA seem to think, does not exist for the purpose of bailing individuals out when they make stupid mistakes.

Yes, your family should help you if you are in need.  Yes, your community should be willing to help out when you are in need.  No, you are still being inconsiderate and irresponsible to place yourself in need when you can avoid it.

It is not a question of these girls' ability to raise a child, it is not a question of what support structures are in place to deal with their pregnancies*, it's a question of people THINKING, weighing the consequences of their actions, and being responsible and considerate towards their family, their community, and their potential children.

The law allows me to collect welfare rather than work (admittedly, it's now limited), but it is neither responsible nor considerate for me to do so when I am full well capable of working and sustaining myself.  I can choose to give money and aid to someone who is in need, but I am not required or expected to do so, and such aid should not be taken as granted.

(*Community support structures that exist because the problem of teen pregnancy existed and was seen as something that needed to have allowances made for, I might add.  Just because a solution is developed or allowances are made when a problem is found to exist does not make intentionally causing the problem OK.)

--edit--

And, yes, they can get jobs, but what about the child? the pregnancy? medical bills? daycare? what sort of job can a highschool student, recent graduate, or, potentially, dropout, get?  We are talking about young teenagers, some of whom are not yet old enough to work legally, period.  The fourteen year old from the article will still be a year off from being legal to work at the time she gives birth.  Heck, at fourteen, some of these girls might still be in middleschool, not highschool!

Honestly, if a girl chooses to get pregnant, and has a plan and support and is legally old enough to get a job, to become a legally emancipated youth, and is committed to the course of action, then by all means, go for it, I could care less, but that does not appear to be the case in the article, in most cases it isn't the case, and the it's the fact they these girls are just doing it without a thought or care that makes me so vehement.

I feel that I ought to say that I think that the girls in the article are probably inconsiderate, irresponsible, and just plain foolish. I wasn't defending them. I only wish to point out that young mothers are not necessarily poor parents, and are not necessarily inconsiderate. Having children because it is fashionable is, very obviously, short-sighted and wrong.

At fifteen (here, at least) you can start working at Burger King. If you insist on not being a 'burden' to anyone else, you can drop out of high school and work there until your child is grown, supporting yourself and him that way. Sure, it may well be unpleasant for you. Long hours, low pay, but it is a means by which you can support the family.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Dude, people have been saying things like that since Socrates, but civilization has yet to end. I can't really see how some -complete- airhead would end up running our government. And maybe we are in a downward trend right now...but I have confidence that sanity will win eventually.

Actually, Civilization has ended several times. The Greeks collapsed, and were subsumed by the Romans, who in turn collapsed and were followed by the Islamic Caliphate, amongst others, and then the modern Western World.

I'm skipping a few steps there. Attila the Hun, for example, amongst others. Personally I'm with Gandhi; when asked what he thought about Western Civilization, he said he thought it "would be a good idea."...

[Alondro]

My civilization will be the most awesomest.

Galactic Empire here I come!   

[Valynth]

So the family should pay for my golden-plated toilet seat just because I want one and choose to have one?

In the end, the cost is about the same as having a child.  Especially if you get him/her a proper education.

It is my personal opinion that there is a substantial difference between a child and a toilet seat. But maybe that's just me.

Not really.  The cost is still there, the choice to have is still there, the option to wait until you're ready to get it is still there, the fact that it's a status symbol is there.  From theses would-be mothers' perspective the set of choices that lead to this outcome is remarkably similar to my golden toilet seat proposal.

[Rakala]

Okay, I know somebody who got into one of these, and the argument that the people can't provide for their children is disproved by her. Although her first boyfriend was a bastard with charisma, she eventually found somebody else. In all she now has 7 children and/or step children and in the last 3 years she's had no social or financial problems. While I agree that this isn't the right idea for these people I don't agree with some of their arguments.

[bill]

What's her financial status?

[rabid_fox]

Argh!

Parenthood is not a financial situation.

It is not an occupation.

It is not a fashion accessory.

Parenting is something that can ONLY be judged by a case-by-case basic and, here's the thriller, it can ONLY be judged twenty five years AFTER the pregnancy.

Any other way of judging parenting is documenting a downfall that's never happened.

[Reese Tora]

Argh!

Parenthood is not a financial situation.

It is not an occupation.

It is not a fashion accessory.

Parenting is something that can ONLY be judged by a case-by-case basic and, here's the thriller, it can ONLY be judged twenty five years AFTER the pregnancy.

Any other way of judging parenting is documenting a downfall that's never happened.

Rabid, We are not judging parenting, I have tried to make this point, multiple times, and so have others.  There are other considerations than parenting skills when bringing another human in to this world. (though, certainly, many of thse things CAN and DO have an effect on the ultimate product of parenting, depending on the parent's ability to work with or around them, and, yes, I agree with you in that there is NO way to judge how these facotrs may ultimately influence a child.  But parenting ability is still not the point.)

[rabid_fox]

Actually, it is. It really is. Whatever the motivation, once pregnancy occurs, it's parenting that matters. And the point that *I* want to make it that parenting is case-by-case situation that can only be judged retrospectively, and that retrospect is in twenty-five years time.

Too many people are damning these people for getting pregnant. I'll damn them if they screw up as parents. I'll never damn someone for getting pregnant, regardless of the reason.

[Valynth]

Actually, it is. It really is. Whatever the motivation, once pregnancy occurs, it's parenting that matters. And the point that *I* want to make it that parenting is case-by-case situation that can only be judged retrospectively, and that retrospect is in twenty-five years time.

Too many people are damning these people for getting pregnant. I'll damn them if they screw up as parents. I'll never damn someone for getting pregnant, regardless of the reason.

So you can't economically feed you kid and yet if you have "parenting skills," its okay?  I think there's a hole or two in your logic.

And lets face it, the economics of the household has a HUGE impact on the psycological growth and developement of the child.  Just look at rich kids, they act a LOT differently than the poor kids.

The rich kids had a tendency to be spoiled brats who think they deserve everything, where as the poor kids had a tendency to try and act like criminals in the hopes of getting on the fast-track to cash.  If the single mother is too busy to teach them otherwise, well, there's always more fark and prison space.

And no, raising a kid is NOT easy, especially if you have a job that you do for most of the day.  More so if you don't have a college degree to get the job that you can actually raise a family single-handed on.

Good luck finding that degree plan.

Edit: Also, having a kid for the sole sake of "status symbol"  hardly rings with "good parenting"

[RobbieThe1st]

Actually, it is. It really is. Whatever the motivation, once pregnancy occurs, it's parenting that matters. And the point that *I* want to make it that parenting is case-by-case situation that can only be judged retrospectively, and that retrospect is in twenty-five years time.

Too many people are damning these people for getting pregnant. I'll damn them if they screw up as parents. I'll never damn someone for getting pregnant, regardless of the reason.

That makes a lot of sense, and I agree with you.

On that same note, you all are acting like this decision can be un-made - it can't. These girls, for better or worse, are pregnant now, and if any of you attempt to decide for them that they shouldn't have their child... well I will certainly think less of you.

Now, counterpoint to that, perhaps we need to give other teenagers facing the same decision a whole bunch more facts on the subject so they can make an informed decision - And if they decide, after weighing all the facts, to still get pregnant, I am not going to question that decision.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a small comment on the age-issues:
Do remember also that for much of history, people were getting married and having children at 13-14 or younger, and biologically, at such ages its possible. Although, as the next poster pointed out, having children at such ages isn't all that good for the child.

Note: I hope I didn't mis-state myself somewhere in this post... I am sorta tired, and obviously there is a distinct possibility because of that.


-RobbieThe1st

[Toric]

Since the morality and responsibility of teen pregnancy has sufficiently been beaten to a smooth paste, I'll mention the red flag that I saw. I cringe every time I hear about a girl age 15 or younger putting their bodies through pregnancy, whether they'll be responsible parents or not.

Yes, teenage women have been bearing children for millenia, but modern studies consistently show that early teens suffer more health problems with pregnancy, worldwide. Wikipedia places the cutoff for this at about fifteen years. The common theory for this boils down to the fact that their bodies are still growing and using massive amounts of resources, so they just can't handle another rapidly-growing body.

The health concerns in particular are things like low birthweight (you'd need a LOT of food to fuel both puberty and pregnancy), premature labor, and nutritional deficits (how many teens get enough calcium for their own bones these days, anyway?). Beyond that, the health concerns stem from socioeconomic factors blah blah blah situational blah blah blah lack of education blah blah blah now beaten into a soupy substance.

[Edit] Anyway, my thoughts on said dead horse. Use at your own discretion. Teenage pregnancy is still very much a stigma, so family and community support is not a given. Birth control is a double-edged sword: it lowers the chance of pregnancy considerably more than an abstinence-based honor system, but all birth control devices can fail eventually. Exceptions do occur (I know gal who became a mother in college and is taking on medical school in addition to raising a daughter), and good children can be raised and in fact are being raised in what most consider poor living conditions, but teenage mothers are likely to be single, likely to rely on welfare at some point in their lives, and are unlikely to continue education past high school (if they complete that). Motherhood is no cakewalk, and those mothers who shine in the face of adversity frequently have stories of struggle. I'm currently 23 years old and I have found it quite easy to remain a virgin to this day, so I openly admit that A) my opinions on the subject are biased and B) I do think that having sex is foolish when you can't support the vulnerable child(ren) that is a possible consequence.

[Netrogo]

I hear that Brun. That's the frightening thing too. If these girls really are becoming pregnant just to mimic Spears and such, what're they going to do when the fad wears off and their stuck with a living breathing child? Call me pessimistic but I don't see alot of these 'pregnancy pact' girls getting parent of the year anytime soon. I'd sooner see them trying to unload the kids, right along side those stupid little dogs in purses, and just about every other teeny bop trend that's come and gone in the last few years.

[Jack McSlay]

as mentioned in the article, it's pretty useless these days trying to control the information the teenagers will have access. the right thing to doo is trying to add information, instead of avoiding information from coming in.

It appears sexual education was very poor in school, and in such case, doesn't excuse the fact the parents neglected to pay attention to how well educated their kids are.

Still, frankly, during high school, I got barely anything past "how to put on a condom". If that's how you treat sexual education in most places, it's time to think over the topics we should get on this subject in high school

[LionHeart]

I don't think I received even that much in high school. Although we did get a lecture about STDs, and we were told about some types of contraception... that was about it, really.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the word "sex" wasn't even mentioned during what little sex education we were given. (True, it was a Catholic school, but even so...)