27/08/07 [#811] Destania: Rapist, torturer... author?

[kalika36]

i love the end "are you too scarred to read it, you should be" lol

no wonder arry looked up to destinia

[Naldru]

If you are living a world where people solve problems with violence and pointy fangs and claws, being nice is not necessarily going to be helpful to your friends, and knowing all of the dirty tricks may intimidate your enemies into leaving you alone.  As Machiavelli said, it is better to rule through fear than through love.  (You can argue whether this is a reasonable statement now, but it was probably appropriate for his time.)  As Kria Soulstealer said, how the skills are used is up to the individual.

Furthermore, if the only cubi who don't disguise themselves are the very arrogant and the extremely powerful, it means that what beings know about cubi is actually based on a very small, unrepresentative fraction of the population.

Regardless, this is not a world that I'd want to live in.  However, the world wasn't very nice for the non-Romans during the Roman Empire or for the medieval English during the frequent raids by the Norsemen.

******
Edit:

By the way, it looks like Abel learned quite a bit in the course in pain and terror.

[Tapewolf]

If you're not planning to come back, then you should probably retire.  It doesn't mean that you hate what you did, but simply that you may have found something better.

She was planning to come back.  According to what Alexsi was told, anyway.  Falling in love with a Being and raising a child kind of scuppered that.  Either way, Fa'Lina was left with no P&T department.

This is my theory, right now.  If you want to keep a job as professor of Pain and Terror, you have to teach pain and terror.  And effectively.  I'm imagining Destania played by Donald Sutherland saying, "Don't write this down, but I find pain and terror probably as despicable as you find pain and terror."

There's only one problem with that theory - pain is the emotion she's most keyed to, so she is going to get a kick out of it.  (I might also add that she taught the 'incantation ploy' thing as a joke to allow you to kill your Being easier).

It had occurred to me that she might have stopped getting a kick out of pain.  If you had your favourite food for seven thousand years I imagine you'd get pretty sick of it.

Another, related aspect is certain drugs used recreationally in humans.  Various opiates, I believe.  The body builds up a resistance to them, so a higher and higher dose is required to get a kick from them.  If pain works that way for Destania, it might be that she 'burned out' in this manner.  A problem with this theory is that her interest in it would have waned.  The students would have noticed this - unless she was putting on a front, which is possible - and Abel would have had a far less harsh description of her.

Am I the only one who thinks this is pretty gripping?

[rabid_fox]

Also - is it just me, or is Abel getting a bit of a Karen Carpenter look about him? Cat needs more pie.

[Fuyudenki]

Take 2: the one I was thinking of when I made a mess earlier.

I find a fairly interesting contrast between Aniz and Destania.  Not the characters, but our reactions to them.  To Aniz, I see constant "Oh no, he gave Abel a brow cut!  BURN HIM!!!11!!oneoneone"  whereas with Destania, I see "Oh, I bet she had a good reason for teaching rape and murder, she must have been putting up a front, she couldn't have been so bad."

All we really know right now are the differences between the Destania we've seen, lying to her own stepdaughter, even for her own good, and the Destania Abel is describing, who may in fact be the scariest thing he's ever met... though I suspect Ink is in the top 3, as he's the image Abel got for "Imagine the most evil thing possible."  If there was a marked change, then the change itself and the reason will probably be illustrated at a later point.

One thing of note is that Dee clearly does love Edward, in steep contrast to the "incantation ploy" which she concocted, as illustrated by her willingness to go to great lengths on his behalf, even after 25 years.  Aaryana didn't do that.

[superluser]

If you're not planning to come back, then you should probably retire.  It doesn't mean that you hate what you did, but simply that you may have found something better.

She was planning to come back.  According to what Alexsi was told, anyway.  Falling in love with a Being and raising a child kind of scuppered that.  Either way, Fa'Lina was left with no P&T department.

Right.  She was planning to come back, but she never did.  I think that disappearing for 25 years and having your son tell your boss that she's left for parts unknown is a pretty effective way to tender your resignation.

(and if she had been expecting a long assignment away from SAIA, she might have taken some personal effects with her.)

There's only one problem with that theory - pain is the emotion she's most keyed to, so she is going to get a kick out of it.  (I might also add that she taught the 'incantation ploy' thing as a joke to allow you to kill your Being easier).

I'm not saying she's not a right b*stard, but everything we've seen from her so far seems to indicate that she's not quite as bad as Abel says.  Sure, she's planning to commit genocide, but the fact that she wasn't stubbing a cigarette butt out in Biggs' eye as she was saying that suggests that she's probably a couple notches lower than Abel would have Dan believe.

I find a fairly interesting contrast between Aniz and Destania.  Not the characters, but our reactions to them.  To Aniz, I see constant "Oh no, he gave Abel a brow cut!  BURN HIM!!!11!!oneoneone"  whereas with Destania, I see "Oh, I bet she had a good reason for teaching rape and murder, she must have been putting up a front, she couldn't have been so bad."

Who are the Destania apologists?  Who are the Aniz haters?  Are they the same people?

[Fuyudenki]

Who are the Destania apologists?  Who are the Aniz haters?  Are they the same people?

They're simply the loudest people in both given groups.  Actually, in retrospective, I think the Destania apologists are the same people as the Aniz apologists, but I'd have to go back and look to make sure.

I've got an hour until my next class, maybe I should do that.

Dee sympathizers include...
Tapewolf
Superluser(you)
Turnsky
Regal
GabrielsThoughts(though apparently not Gabriel himself.  Just his thoughts.)
Aurawyn
Naldru

Aniz crucifyers include...
AndersW
Techmaster Glitch
Madmann135
Shadowcatcher
Zedd
Manawolf
Illusionist
Aleolus(who actually started preaching to the fictional character)
Cogidubnus

Hmm, no overlap, it seems.  Point made.

[Regal]

Well. This is interesting news. Another viewpoint on Destania. I'm honestly at a loss as to what to make of this woman.

How about meat cookies?

[Zedd]

Now now Raist I didnt say anything to slay Aniz or practily worship him..Your puting words in my mouth

[Angel]

I'm surprised Drip hasn't been mentioned yet, as what Abel just said in the comic resembles what the general board populice says about Drip quite closely, just not in as much detail.

Dee vs. Drip: who's more evil?

(shakes her head disappontedly) That you'd even compare the two is shameful.

Destania doesn't even come close to Drip; she can feel compassion, and she cares enough about someone to kill dragons for them. Drip knows no such feelings; he thinks of people as victims, and he could never care about anyone more than himself. (taps Raist's knuckles with a ruler for not realizing this)

[SpottedKitty]

When dragons go and kidnap her husband, what does she do? She plots and tries to wipe out the whole lot of them, that's what.

I'm not so sure about that. I got the impression from earlier mentions that the feud between Cyra Clan and the Dragons was something that had been going on for what we'd consider quite a long time. Maybe hundreds of years, maybe even thousands, certainly a lot longer than Edward's been kidnapped. Remember Biggs' comment to Destania about her being a friend of his family "for generations". Could that be how long she's been working on her plans against the Dragons? I see it as the other way round: the Dragons snatched Edward in an attempt to flush Destania out and maybe find out more about her plans.

[Naldru]

As I mentioned before, I believe that I could be considered an agnostic when it comes to Destania and Aniz.  (agnostic actually means "without knowledge", as opposed to the gnostics, who believed that they knew the secrets of the universe.)  I don't know how cubi training methods compare to those of ancient Sparta or those of the Japanese armed forces in the first half of the twentieth century, but those two groups definitely had training techniques that would be abhorrent today.

If Destania or Aniz existed in modern American society, I feel that they should probably be in prison for the types of actions that they carry out. However, the stories aren't taking place in modern society.  If I seem to be an apologist for these two, it is because I feel that the attacks are based on emotion rather than logic.  As Spock said on Star Trek, there seems to be no location where logic is more sorely needed.

I remember when the animated film Pocahontas was released by Disney, and all of the discussions about whether the two sides were accurately portrayed.  Russell Means, who was one of the voice actors, summed it up very well: "It's just a story, folks."

[superluser]

Dee sympathizers include...
Superluser(you)

Well, I don't know if I sympathize with her.  She's liable to be worse than the most despicable person on Earth, but I still think she's not as bad as Abel lets on.

I remember when the animated film Pocahontas was released by Disney, and all of the discussions about whether the two sides were accurately portrayed.  Russell Means, who was one of the voice actors, summed it up very well: "It's just a story, folks."

Well, except that Pocahontas was real.

[Caswin]

also as someone once said, "there is no black and white, just shades of gray."

I don't think anyone's doubting that, but so far, the evidence (Abel's testimony - you know it's spelled "Abel", right?) - points toward Destania being pretty darned close to black.

If you are living a world where people solve problems with violence and pointy fangs and claws, being nice is not necessarily going to be helpful to your friends, and knowing all of the dirty tricks may intimidate your enemies into leaving you alone.

Which would explain fighting techniques, and "dirty" ones, at that.  But I still don't see where torture and rape play in.

Furthermore, if the only cubi who don't disguise themselves are the very arrogant and the extremely powerful, it means that what beings know about cubi is actually based on a very small, unrepresentative fraction of the population.

...now that is actually a pretty interesting point, I must admit.  Hmm.

[Alondro]

*Charles nods*  Yeah, and John Smith was like 50.  But Pocahantas was a teenager... HE WAS A PEDO!!!  
And what name does the Doctor give whenever he's asked for one?  JOHN SMITH!!!  They were one and the same!  The Doctor is really a time-travelling alien child molester!  ZOMG!  Now you all know yet another horrible truth!  

*Charline   *  Oh dear, I think the brain damage I gave him was permanent this time.  Oh well.  Anyway, it remains to be seen if Destania ever had any real feelings for Edward, or if she was and still is using him.  Personally, I vote for using him.  But I'm biased since I'm truly evil.  

[Naldru]

If you are living a world where people solve problems with violence and pointy fangs and claws, being nice is not necessarily going to be helpful to your friends, and knowing all of the dirty tricks may intimidate your enemies into leaving you alone.

Which would explain fighting techniques, and "dirty" ones, at that.  But I still don't see where torture and rape play in.

Unfortunately, some societies today view rape and torture as just another means of intimidation.  Take a look at Northern Ireland thirty years ago and Africa and the Middle East today.

[Sajoli]

Hmm... Lesse.
Destania feeds on terror and pain.
She taught torture, murder, rape, and all sorts of other nasty things.
She had previously invested interest in Abel.
And Abel hates her guts.
Put it all together, and what do you get?
A really pathetic theory on my part. I actually doubt this more than any other theory I've thought up for this particular comic, which is why I'm posting it. So we can let go of all this tense grey/black/white stuff and laugh at somebody. Even if that unfortunate someone is me.
But seriously, I have no idea about any of this. It seems to me that Abel and Aary saw two totally different people, probably due to their introductions to the Cubi world. Abel's is pretty damn awful, and Aaryanna's seems to have been a bit better, judging by her willingness to inflict pain and rape and and all that other fun stuff. (see comics 218,222, and 226. Sorry, haven't figured out how to put in links. *is an idiot*)

[Caswin]

(see comics 218,222, and 226. Sorry, haven't figured out how to put in links. *is an idiot*)

Highlight the text you want to turn into a link and put "=[the link you want]" after "url".  It's not exactly intuitive.

[Aleolus]

Oi, Dan!  What do you think you're doing, renting a book from the library of a place you don't plan on ever going back to?!?

On a funnier note, think about if Abel really did have a crush on Destiana.  Wouldn't that cause quite a bit of hysterics when she finally shows up?

[schizo]

Oi, Dan!  What do you think you're doing, renting a book from the library of a place you don't plan on ever going back to?!?

On a funnier note, think about if Abel really did have a crush on Destiana.  Wouldn't that cause quite a bit of hysterics when she finally shows up?

That could be true,Abel seems to always claim to be an expert at"jerkdom",murder,rape,and torture just seem to be a one up on a jerk.

[Naldru]

Oi, Dan!  What do you think you're doing, renting a book from the library of a place you don't plan on ever going back to?!?

On a funnier note, think about if Abel really did have a crush on Destiana.  Wouldn't that cause quite a bit of hysterics when she finally shows up?

Dan has to return for one month a year or Fa'lina crushes his spine like a stalk of celery.

The meeting between Abel and Destania should be interesting either way.

[Paul]

(see comics 218,222, and 226. Sorry, haven't figured out how to put in links. *is an idiot*)

Highlight the text you want to turn into a link and put "=[the link you want]" after "url".  It's not exactly intuitive.

Highlighting does not make url tags appear. You've got to click the "Insert Hyperlink" button, too.   

Sajoli, to make a text link, it should look like this in the "post reply" box:

Code Select Expand

See [url=http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_778.php]comic 778[/url] which proves my theory that Abel wants to hit Dan with an axe.
When posted, it'll look like this:

See comic 778 which proves my theory that Abel wants to hit Dan with an axe.

[Fuyudenki]

Superluser and Zedd, I just went through and recorded everyone who expressed one-sided sentiments of rage towards Aniz or one-sided sentiments of "maybe she had a reason for it, or a sudden change of heart" towards Destania.

Technically, I belong in the first grouping as well, currently, but I'd prefer to see how things unfold before actually choosing a side.

BlackAngel, I think I've mentioned before, I don't read Jack.  I don't actually know what goes on there.

*pulls shot glass away from Zina* ah, not this time.

[Psaakyrn]

(shakes her head disappontedly) That you'd even compare the two is shameful.

Destania doesn't even come close to Drip; she can feel compassion, and she cares enough about someone to kill dragons for them. Drip knows no such feelings; he thinks of people as victims, and he could never care about anyone more than himself. (taps Raist's knuckles with a ruler for not realizing this)

Not true... Drip, as a creation of God, does have such feelings, though likely to such a low extent that it rarely shows up. Do note that of Destinia's many years of existance, only in the recent couple of years did she start to show compassion. Drip only had how many years of existance thus far? Reference: http://pholph.com/index_a.php?Strip=262 (you can't struggle against something that doesn't exist, so it must exist to an extent)

[Eibborn]

BLAH BLAH BLAH JACK BLAH

[Aurawyn]

. It seems to me that Abel and Aary saw two totally different people, probably due to their introductions to the Cubi world. Abel's is pretty damn awful, and Aaryanna's seems to have been a bit better, judging by her willingness to inflict pain and rape and and all that other fun stuff. (see comics 218,222, and 226. Sorry, haven't figured out how to put in links. *is an idiot*)

Thats good points.  Abel was raised as a being.. Aary mostly likely in a cubi clan.. they are coming from two totally different starting points.. Aary probably saw all kinds of bad things are normal starting at a very young age, where as we see abel's introduction to Cubiess at a much older age and after a far more"Normal upbringing.

What we have SEEN of Dee makes her out to be faaar less evil then what Abel has said, and untill we actually see more of her back story I will withhold total judgment..

PS. you guys are really hard on Alexis! She dosen't seem nearly as bad as you guys are making her out to be! Look here she is somewhat comforting. dan

[Turnsky]

If you're not planning to come back, then you should probably retire.  It doesn't mean that you hate what you did, but simply that you may have found something better.

She was planning to come back.  According to what Alexsi was told, anyway.  Falling in love with a Being and raising a child kind of scuppered that.  Either way, Fa'Lina was left with no P&T department.

This is my theory, right now.  If you want to keep a job as professor of Pain and Terror, you have to teach pain and terror.  And effectively.  I'm imagining Destania played by Donald Sutherland saying, "Don't write this down, but I find pain and terror probably as despicable as you find pain and terror."

There's only one problem with that theory - pain is the emotion she's most keyed to, so she is going to get a kick out of it.  (I might also add that she taught the 'incantation ploy' thing as a joke to allow you to kill your Being easier).

It had occurred to me that she might have stopped getting a kick out of pain.  If you had your favourite food for seven thousand years I imagine you'd get pretty sick of it.

well, if emotions were like sound, you hear a nice song, you get enjoyment out of it, if it's too loud, it might deafen you.. the same analogy could apply to emotions, she might've gotten too much pain, as it were, i know 'cubi have mental barriers to keep themselves from getting too much, but the proverbial dam walls can only hold so much before they crumble.

[Tapewolf]

Thats good points.  Abel was raised as a being.. Aary mostly likely in a cubi clan.. they are coming from two totally different starting points.. Aary probably saw all kinds of bad things are normal starting at a very young age, where as we see abel's introduction to Cubiess at a much older age and after a far more"Normal upbringing.

The fact that he still sleeps and eats and doesn't like shapeshifting makes me wonder whether he wishes he was still a Being, even after 375 years.  It might be that Dan is actually better at adapting than him.  Dan uses his morphing powers to make Godzilla and Pacman.  I can easily see Dan using his ability to stay up all night in a rave or something.

But yes, the fact that Abel (and Dan) were raised as Beings has a lot to do with the whole good-evil business.

PS. you guys are really hard on Alexis! She dosen't seem nearly as bad as you guys are making her out to be! Look here she is somewhat comforting. dan

Yes, and the other one is in Disasters, but that's it.  I guess I'm just fed up with the way she treats Dan.  Either way, she really should have told Dan that his mother is still alive, but that doesn't seem to be the case.  She might have mentioned that his mother knew Abel.  She hasn't - Dan had to work that out on his own.  And she owes Dan for the inn business.

[Turnsky]

Thats good points.  Abel was raised as a being.. Aary mostly likely in a cubi clan.. they are coming from two totally different starting points.. Aary probably saw all kinds of bad things are normal starting at a very young age, where as we see abel's introduction to Cubiess at a much older age and after a far more"Normal upbringing.

The fact that he still sleeps and eats and doesn't like shapeshifting makes me wonder whether he wishes he was still a Being, even after 375 years.  It might be that Dan is actually better at adapting than him.  Dan uses his morphing powers to make Godzilla and Pacman.  I can easily see Dan using his ability to stay up all night in a rave or something.

But yes, the fact that Abel (and Dan) were raised as Beings has a lot to do with the whole good-evil business.

PS. you guys are really hard on Alexis! She dosen't seem nearly as bad as you guys are making her out to be! Look here she is somewhat comforting. dan

Yes, and the other one is in Disasters, but that's it.  I guess I'm just fed up with the way she treats Dan.  Either way, she really should have told Dan that his mother is still alive, but that doesn't seem to be the case.  She might have mentioned that his mother knew Abel.  She hasn't - Dan had to work that out on his own.  And she owes Dan for the inn business.

given that Alexsi's only related to Dan by father, and the fact that Dan's a Incubus to boot, there might be a little envy there. Sure 'cubi have a Stigma about 'em, but Dan's Dan, he isn't your usual Incubus, he might be a new generation of 'cubi that's far more "socially adjusted" than his more experienced peers.

[Psaakyrn]

Yes, and the other one is in Disasters, but that's it.  I guess I'm just fed up with the way she treats Dan.  Either way, she really should have told Dan that his mother is still alive, but that doesn't seem to be the case.  She might have mentioned that his mother knew Abel.  She hasn't - Dan had to work that out on his own.  And she owes Dan for the inn business.

Just wanted to correct you on 2 things...

1) Where did it say Dan doesn't know his mom is alive? We know that Dan last met her in Twink Territories, which shouldn't be too far ago.
2) I see no where about Alexi even knowing WHO Abel is before her reunion with Destinia. So far it's like only 24 hours since Alexi knew about that association. (basically, time from her returning from kidnapping, Which Dan happen to walk out of the door for no apparent reason, then her getting them to work on chores first thing in the morning. Not really much time to have a talk, especially if she's in a bad mood for almost everyone not missing her.) For all we know, she is intentionally trying to get Dan and Abel to bond together.

[EDIT] On hindsight, her sending Dan to get back her hammer might have been an indirect way to arrange a meeting with Destania, since she DID know that Destania went there. [/EDIT]

[MORE EDIT] Wait a minute... Abel wasn't learning pain and terror from Destania to begin with. (or at least, that isn't the vested interest that Destinia had with Abel.) She was teaching him how to survive without anyone's help... [/MORE EDIT]