Cybernations

[Tezkat]

Done.



This was one of my earlier (unposted) variants, actually. It's not bad...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... why the choice of colour in the center, actually? What's it look like with a heart of gold? *cough*

[Tezkat]

... why the choice of colour in the center, actually?

It's the Fae forehead gem, of course!

What's it look like with a heart of gold? *cough*

I assume you mean something like this?



It's um... not mowish anymore, but I guess it is kinda cool that way...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Actually, I was thinking leaving the box in mauve and the wings in orange. I know it means more colours, but even so...



Like that... Although using gimp on it has sharpened some of the softer edges you had in your version...

... why the choice of colour in the center, actually?

It's the Fae forehead gem, of course!

Of course. It's a little on the "entire face" side, though... ;-]

[Tezkat]

Actually, I was thinking leaving the box in mauve and the wings in orange. I know it means more colours, but even so...



Like that... Although using gimp on it has sharpened some of the softer edges you had in your version...

Well... more colours isn't necessarily a bad thing per se. I just happen to be of the opinion that the flag should either be bold and stately (like the purple and gold #4), or be very clearly DMFA coloured (like the mowve #3/#5 or the Mabbish lavender of #6). This multicolour one is neither here nor there. If we're leaning towards that style of flag, I think #2 is much better.

Of course. It's a little on the "entire face" side, though... ;-]

Heh... it's abstract! I plead artistic license.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Yeah. I'm leaning towards #3 myself. Having more options isn't all bad, though, is it? ;-]

[Tezkat]

Bleh... Valynth is getting raped by TPF now. I have a feeling that this might continue for some time now that we're on the easy target list. It's a wonder that Cog hasn't been hit by anything yet.

At least Kasarn's war will expire soon. Where did he wander off to? He seems to be offline. We lost Danny yesterday as well. Our alliance NS has taken quite a pounding...


Anyway, how goes the diplomacizing?

Yeah. I'm leaning towards #3 myself. Having more options isn't all bad, though, is it? ;-]

Heh. Well, it might make the decision process more complicated if there isn't a clear favourite (similar flags might split the vote, and such). Maybe if people voted for their top 3 choices and we added up points, or something.

At any rate, if you want more options... here's yet another variant for those of you who are leaning towards the mow flags:



It's purple on purple. I reddened the center gem slightly to offset that. It still looks a bit like a gift box, but the colours are très DMFA.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... works for me. Anyone else want to argue?

[Valynth]

I warned people that this would happen, but did they listen to me?  noooo, do they try to help defend me?...noooo...  I'm seriously considering jumping alliance ships because of this...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Heh.

What help did you want? And did you want us to merge en masse into Elysium to make up for it?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

He says this is a draft copy, but they've already had two or three alliances sign up. Seems reasonable enough for me.

Ah... so is it Valhalla or Elysium providing the big guns here? Who are the other hopefuls? I assume that the other large Purple alliances are not part of it...

Anyway, I like it. Assuming that it doesn't turn out to be just empty lip-service (like GRAPE), it could be good for everyone.


Some minor clarifications...

What is the address of the P.E.A.C.E. forums? Who runs them?

Who are the signatories to the Poseidon Treaty mentioned? I couldn't find anything about it on the wiki or forums? (Or is it just a typo?)

19:32 <Great_Lakes_Union|Elysium> I think war games would be something we would want to address separetly from the treaty among only willing parties if there is interest.
19:34 <Great_Lakes_Union|Elysium> Elysium will the the main lead. But Valhalla, and OMFG would also be pledge to defend the protectorates (and possibly more)
19:34 <Great_Lakes_Union|Elysium> P.E.A.C.E. is located here: http://z9.invisionfree.com/CNPEACE/index.php?s=5a0b0990dc581a3c1b4f8fba88c4df35&act=idx
19:35 <Great_Lakes_Union|Elysium> Government members from Elysium, Valhalla and OMFG are running it at this time
19:35 <Great_Lakes_Union|Elysium> It has not been publicly announced yet
19:37 <Great_Lakes_Union|Elysium> And all of this effort should not end up like GRAPE, as there is a real effort at purple unity
19:37 <Great_Lakes_Union|Elysium> Poseidon is meant to be the counterpart to Pegasus for larger alliances

[Tezkat]

Ooh, interesting stuff happening behind the curtain in Purple, I see...

I warned people that this would happen, but did they listen to me?  noooo, do they try to help defend me?...noooo...  I'm seriously considering jumping alliance ships because of this...

Seriously... what would you have us do? Most of us were/are being attacked along with you. We're "easy targets" not because we don't fight back, but because our alliance is too small for fighting back to do anything. The only solution to our current problem is political. We have to give up the confines of our cozy group--recruit outside this board and/or join forces with a stronger alliance. Friends in high places are the best incentive to avoid raiding us. If we drop below the 10 member mark, though, I don't see us being able to maintain much independence. In that case, merging en masse may become the only practical option...

EDIT:

Greetings to our diplomat from Elysium.

[Great Lakes Union]

Hello! 

[Tezkat]

Hey Great Lakes Union.

You're the first foreign CN diplomat we've received here. We're not much on ceremony, I'm afraid.

Anyways... looking forward to working with you! 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Hello! 

Oh, hello there! ;-]

As Tez says, us Anarcho-Syndicalist Communists aren't much for ceremony.

But what would you expect from a group whose foreign diplomat has an official position of "prone"?

[Cogidubnus]

The flag looks nice.

Also, as far as the alliance goes, sounds good to me.

Also, welcome, foreign traveler! Watch out for muffins, boxes, and people who tell you to watch out for things.   


*Edit:

So I sign on, and I notice that war has been declared on me by three nations. I caught them right before they began assaulting me. Was able to rebuy soldiers, ended up losing only about 5 tech.

*Cog does the dance of glee*

[Tezkat]

But what would you expect from a group whose foreign diplomat has an official position of "prone"?

Leaving us to wonder what exactly you've been doing with potential allies behind closed doors...

The flag looks nice.

Heh... which one?

*Edit:

So I sign on, and I notice that war has been declared on me by three nations. I caught them right before they began assaulting me. Was able to rebuy soldiers, ended up losing only about 5 tech.

*Cog does the dance of glee*

Oooh, good timing!

Remember to delete your wars. We don't need any more advertising to prospective raiders, especially with so many of us already out of action.


I'd really like to rebuild my air force before leaving hippy mode. Can anyone spot me 50 tech?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

if we had someone to buy it off, I'd be happy to.

'course, I'd have to leave hippy mode myself...


I think it's Kasarn not clearing up his war. I wonder where he is... he's down a trade, and I'm down a trade, so there's a possibility of some useful interaction there...

[Tezkat]

if we had someone to buy it off, I'd be happy to.

'course, I'd have to leave hippy mode myself...

Well... I was hoping to grab some on credit. I can buy replacements off of Darkdragon in a few days (or immediately if we get another intermediary). Basically, I'd like to stay out of hippy mode in order to coordinate aid and such, and I need a full military for that.

I think it's Kasarn not clearing up his war. I wonder where he is... he's down a trade, and I'm down a trade, so there's a possibility of some useful interaction there...

Yeah. Kasarn's been MIA for a week. We'll have to kick his ass when he gets back.

At least his war expires tomorrow. Cog and Valynth have been hit again. Seriously, guys... we should be on high alert until at least a few days after the last war expires.


It's certainly garnered a lot of attention for our little alliance. Amusingly... I'm even getting recrtuitment messages from Realm of Titans (which includes one of our current attackers and the guys who were "tech raiding" me with quads and missiles/airstrikes). Ah, well... I suppose it's a diplomatic opening...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

if we had someone to buy it off, I'd be happy to.

'course, I'd have to leave hippy mode myself...

Well... I was hoping to grab some on credit. I can buy replacements off of Darkdragon in a few days (or immediately if we get another intermediary). Basically, I'd like to stay out of hippy mode in order to coordinate aid and such, and I need a full military for that.

... I was planning on credit. It's a matter of finding someone to buy more off of after that. *grin*

[Tezkat]

Yeah... we need to rekindle our alliance boosting programs. We need a comfortable level of tech padding for our top nations, and we really should push to at least bring the bottom half our alliance above 2k infra. It's probably a good idea to wait until our little military difficulties have cleared up, though. Raiders just ain't good for business.


You could also ask our allies-to-be if they have any tech sellers with slots available. Helping them with their newbie boostage could be a good way to forge closer ties. 


By the way, Cog... last I checked, your environment (i.e. economy) takes a hit when you support nuclear weapons. Tis usually best to hug trees and such until you have the resources to build proper WMDs.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Yeah, I'll do that. I'll let you know if we get any responses.

I'm thinking we should aim for 4:1 infra:tech ratio, or so. Sound reasonable?

[Tezkat]

I'm thinking we should aim for 4:1 infra:tech ratio, or so. Sound reasonable?

Um... seeing as how everyone has differing amounts of infra, that seems a bit complicated...

Let's see... I think $1 million should buy something on the order of 40 infra at that size if they swap out improvements for 5 factories. (And really... at that size, they should all have a full 5 factories anyway...) So.... assuming tech costs on the order of $1 million for 50, boosting by 200 infra would mean something like paying $6 million for 50 tech. I suppose that's doable. I was kinda hoping to farm a little more tech while they're still small enough for it to be viable, though...


In other news... Kasarn is getting some more attention from RoT. This could go on for a while...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Oh, you misunderstand me.

I meant, we should aim to bring our tech levels up until we've got 10 levels of tech for each 40 levels of infrastructure.

For the larger guys, anyway. Anyone down at the bottom, yes, we should look at pumping them up to >2k infra, and then, obviously, push them to 500 tech to match that. Via tech farming with our new friends, of course.

[Tezkat]

Oh... heh...

I wouldn't worry so much about ratios at our size. Even with a steady stream of... say... 300 tech a month (2x50 tech every 11 days), it would take ages to even reach that 1:4 point. In any event, the only thing tech really influences up here is military prowess, so you can pretty much carry as much as you're able to defend.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

it wasn't so much us as some of the smaller friends we have. ;-]

And yes, military prowess is useful. So having some more to assist with militarily defending ourselves wouldn't hurt. Although we seem to be feeding most of our tech and infra to other people at the moment...

[Tezkat]

Basically... the way I see it... once we've exhausted the tech farming capacity of our smaller nations, our next project should be boosting them to 500 and change. Not because of any ratios, but because that's the point at which they can purchase a full air force for use in wars. Bombing runs do a lot of damage. Anything beyond that is gravy.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Ah, see, now that's different. I'm basically a peaceable weenie at heart, and all the air craft I have are defensive fighters. Can't see the point in getting lots of bombers to blow the crap out of someone else.


Which explains why I fail. ;-]

In other news... If anyone cares to object, speak now. If I don't hear from anyone, I'll look into signing  us up for the protectorate treaty with Elysium and Valhalla early this week.

Oh, and Toga from Valhalla responded on their forum with, effectively, FOAD. "Come back when you've got 20 members and a government."


No sense of humour, I tell you. After all, what's wrong with anarchy? Or even semi-anarchic democracy, with vague voting standards? ;-]

[Tezkat]

Ah, see, now that's different. I'm basically a peaceable weenie at heart, and all the air craft I have are defensive fighters. Can't see the point in getting lots of bombers to blow the crap out of someone else.

Oh, you don't need lots of bombers. Around 10-15 is usually enough. In my experience, fighters don't seem to have a whole lot of defensive value. I have yet to successfully fend off a bombing run, and a two airstrikes against me usually wipe out most of my air force. That could be a tech differential thing, though. Most people attacking me have had at least twice my tech.

In other news... If anyone cares to object, speak now. If I don't hear from anyone, I'll look into signing  us up for the protectorate treaty with Elysium and Valhalla early this week.

I'm pretty comfortable with the wording of the treaty, personally. It encompasses most of what I'd like to see from our first foray into the wider political sphere--less of the getting gangbanged by large raiders and more of the opportunities for organized, large-scale military conflict. (Srsly. Tezkat can has nuke targets in next Great War? Kthxbai. ) It's not as if we're really in a position to dictate terms, at any rate. If this is a serious attempt at Purple-wide solidarity and stability, it will be running on a timetable quite independent of our needs. Roughly when are they planning to publicly announce these things?

Oh, and Toga from Valhalla responded on their forum with, effectively, FOAD. "Come back when you've got 20 members and a government."


No sense of humour, I tell you. After all, what's wrong with anarchy? Or even semi-anarchic democracy, with vague voting standards? ;-]

Heh. What exactly did you ask for? I don't know what we'd do with a government if we had one. Supreme executive power derives from farcical aquatic ceremonies, not some mandate from the masses. And, yes, that is a sword in my pocket. Now go make them stop repressing us.

I must say, however, that it's becoming painfully clear that 10-person alliances just aren't big enough to matter unless they're composed entirely of aggressive, top tier nations (like Poison Clan). Are we going to do anything about recruitment? If nothing else, a little fresh blood might give us a wider base for tech farming.


We still do need a flag though. Are we done with options? I still have plenty more on my HD, but they're really just variations on the same themes. I'm rather fond of #4 (sexy Tezkat colours), although the new gift box #14 probably does the best job of capturing the DMFA colour scheme.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I asked for an embassy.

Obviously they dislike having embassies from other people. Oh, well.