1/20/07- Abels story- Just fine

[Dard]

KRIA IS AN EVIL BITCH.

No kidding here.

Sparing Abel was a whim....

But I don't think so. Abel was her pupil. That's some responisibility to him. Killing off your pupils would be bad. But who cares about pizza boys?

I have no doubt that if he ever puts two and two together, realizes she is the one who killed Devin, and confronts her about it, she'll turn on him in an instant.

No.
She would say "Of course I did it! Because I can! MUWAHAHAHA. Now let's talk about your future. You know, there is a nice school that specializes in people like you. And you are really lucky today, I am good friends with the headmistress. Aren't you glad?"

I miss the times when the good guys would actually FIGHT the bad guys....this shades of grey crap is getting aggrivating. and it isn't even a particularly light shade of grey either.

I don't!
This is exactly what makes all of this great.
Black and white is boring!

BTW, like the original poster suggested, here is a potential inspiration for today's strip.

[Tapewolf]

Well, just because you have wings doesn't mean that they're not vestigial.

Indeed.  However, we do have the strip of the weasel dude flying and I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that you could use them to glide or at least fall in a more controlled way.

(And kudos for Sid for remembering the charms in CJP - this news makes my job easier to keep it as DMFA-compatible as I can)

[Sid]

oh, come ON......I've seen this coming ever since we found out Kria was his freaking schoolteacher. of COURSE she's been doing the killings...she once introduced herself by killing a pizzaboy just so she could say hi to Lorenda.  KRIA IS AN EVIL BITCH. Sparing Abel was a whim....I have no doubt that if he ever puts two and two together, realizes she is the one who killed Devin, and confronts her about it, she'll turn on him in an instant.  Sadly, since this is all flashback, it doesn't look like she'll ever be brought to task.


*spits*

I miss the times when the good guys would actually FIGHT the bad guys....this shades of grey crap is getting aggrivating. and it isn't even a particularly light shade of grey either.

I assume you're a vegetarian, then? Because you sure as heck won't support killing animals, right?

Sorry, but Creatures are on top of the food chain (and the hierarchy of power), ABOVE Beings (at least at that time). Most Creatures live longer, have more abilities, are better at those abilities/skills, have more stamina, faster reflexes... and they are very well aware of that.

The classic Creature point of view is that Beings are simply not on the same level, just like I won't treat a farm pig or dog as my equal. Yeah, sure, it breathes, it thinks, but I'm not going to prod the supplier of my meat with genocide charges or anything simply because he killed a few thousand farm animals. It's not exactly nice to the poor animals, but this is the way things developed.

Your point of view reflects Jyrras' stance during his meeting with Kria. And Kria made it very clear what the Creatures think of that. Kria is evil by the standards of Beings because she occasionally kills Beings. By the classic Creature standard, she is perfectly normal.

Focusing on Kria in particular, she does have an issue with killing Beings, and it stresses her relationship with Lorenda (who tends to side more with Beings than with Creatures). It shows in the strips following the Pizza Delivery Guy incident. We also see there that Kria tries to be good and helpful (Gardener incident), but has some trouble in finding her place.

So I'd say that the Demon mindset is more to blame than Kria's personality (even though it doesn't exactly help).

About the "Good vs. Evil" gig... what would you call a bunch of adventurers raiding an elementary school in a Demon/Creature village? I mean... the Creatures would eventually grow up to be Evil (by the classic Being view)... so the adventurers are... the Good Guys? It's all a matter of perspective, and it makes things a lot more grey than you assume.

Jyrras hasn't been born yet.

Why do you people assume patches exist?

Polymorphic magic and the ability to enchant them into objects has existed before the technology to make it effortless.

We (or at least I) use the term patch exactly for this sort of thing. Looks like a patch, works like a patch, buuuut in reality it's an "enchanted item with a polymorph spell". Sorry, but I stick to the shorter term that most people know, even if it's not technically accurate.

[superluser]

oh, come ON......I've seen this coming ever since we found out Kria was his freaking schoolteacher.

Well, many other people have suggested this, but decided against it.  It's not her style.  Now it's pretty much certain that it is her, but it's still not her style (unless she's teaching creatures to hunt).

On the subject of magical patches, has anyone thought about  Lorenda's earrings ?

"The earrings Lorenda has are the only memento she has of her father. They were a gift to Kria which were given to Lorenda when she turned five."

A patch in disguise?

I doubt it.  At the very least, Jyrras would have found out about it by now.  You don't wear earrings when you sleep, and Jyrras would have seen her before she put them in at some point.  That doesn't mean that it didn't happen, but it would be an odd story to pass up.

It would also be odd for a being to have something to hide creature features.  Note, ``The earrings Lorenda has are the only memento she has of her father. They were a gift to Kria which were given to Lorenda when she turned five.'' not ``The earrings Lorenda has were given to her when she turned five as a memento of her father.''

Well, just because you have wings doesn't mean that they're not vestigial.

Indeed.  However, we do have the strip of the weasel dude flying and I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that you could use them to glide or at least fall in a more controlled way.

My point was more along the lines of ``It'd be even cooler if I knew how to fly with them!''

[Tapewolf]

On the subject of magical patches, has anyone thought about  Lorenda's earrings ?

"The earrings Lorenda has are the only memento she has of her father. They were a gift to Kria which were given to Lorenda when she turned five."

A patch in disguise?

I doubt it.  At the very least, Jyrras would have found out about it by now.  You don't wear earrings when you sleep, and Jyrras would have seen her before she put them in at some point.  That doesn't mean that it didn't happen, but it would be an odd story to pass up.

True, but on the other hand, Lorenda designed the magical component of the patches, didn't she?

[VioletDusk]

About the "Good vs. Evil" gig... what would you call a bunch of adventurers raiding an elementary school in a Demon/Creature village? I mean... the Creatures would eventually grow up to be Evil (by the classic Being view)... so the adventurers are... the Good Guys? It's all a matter of perspective, and it makes things a lot more grey than you assume.


Yes! Finally, someone who gets it. (I think.) If Kria did slaughter those people, she may have had perfectly good reasons for doing so, at least in her mind. Or they may simply be casualties of war.

[AndersW]

I think it was Mab that helped with the patches.  Referenced here and next strip.

Also I think that just because Dan didn't know how to fly that time doesn't mean he can't fly with them now.

[Tapewolf]

I think it was Mab that helped with the patches.  Referenced here and next strip.

Yes, that was my initial impression.  Something else came along and changed it though.  If only I could remember what...

[superluser]

We know that Lorenda didn't make the patches, but let's not forget that she didn't even know about their construction until recently.

Of course, you don't necessarily need to know anything about their construction to use (or possibly even make) them.  So this is not in any way conclusive, but it suggests that patches, or other magical shapeshifting fetishes are probably not something that Lorenda had much experience with before she met Jyrras.

[TheDXM]

If I were in her position I'd so be framing Abel for this stuff.

What better way to teach someone something about life after a bad day but to make it a whole lot worse?

Doesn't seem like she's going that route yet though...

[Tapewolf]

We know that Lorenda didn't make the patches, but let's not forget that she didn't even know about their construction until recently.

THAT was it: "Thanks for helping me out, Lorenda".  I took that to mean that she - a demon, and full of magic - designed the magical component and that Mab had gone to check them out in #261 after they had come up in conversation.  Mab doing the design work makes a lot more sense, though.

Of course, you don't necessarily need to know anything about their construction to use (or possibly even make) them.  So this is not in any way conclusive, but it suggests that patches, or other magical shapeshifting fetishes are probably not something that Lorenda had much experience with before she met Jyrras.

OTOH, hiding your wings to keep you from being vanquished in a school full of Beings would be useful, though.  I was going to add that we've never seen Lorenda sleep (and thus take off her earrings), but Kria does seem to need sleep so I imagine her daughter does too.

[superluser]

If I were in her position I'd so be framing Abel for this stuff.

If the Creature Council ever found out about it, there would be hell to pay.  Kill a being?  Pay a fine.  Evidence tampering, obstruction of justice, perjury?  You only get out of jail time for that if you're an elected official.

I was going to add that we've never seen Lorenda sleep (and thus take off her earrings), but Kria does seem to need sleep so I imagine her daughter does to.

Didn't we see her once drying her hair or something?  You'd have to be pretty crazy to leave them in when you shower.

[chaotik]

About the "Good vs. Evil" gig... what would you call a bunch of adventurers raiding an elementary school in a Demon/Creature village? I mean... the Creatures would eventually grow up to be Evil (by the classic Being view)... so the adventurers are... the Good Guys? It's all a matter of perspective, and it makes things a lot more grey than you assume.





Not really.  it depends  on exactly what they're TEACHING at said school, and what the staff/student body does in thier time off.  I don't give a flying ****  HOW nice Kria is to kids or how amusing she might be occasionally, she's still a mass murderer, and one who in EITHER timeline shows no particular signs of stopping.  As for the kids...of course killing a bunch of innocent kids on suspicion of wha they MIGHT do is wrong...and guess what?  Good Guys who do stuff like that are a bout as "good' as some SOB who convinces impressionable people it's "good" to blow up yourself and anyone who had the misfortune to take the wrong bus, just becasue they happen to be on "the other side"  If a cop/adventurer/whoever kills someone becasue they're rampaginf through the community destroying lives, that's good.  If they kill the kids too, becasue of what they MIGHT do, and they can't be bothered to take the time to educate/instruct the kids WHY what thier teacher was doing was wrong,that's EVIL.  There's very little grey about it....the general public just seems to be too morally lazy to bother trying to make the distinction, so they just paint everything grey, try and try to pretend that black and white never existed in the first place...at least, until it's THIER turn to take the wrong bus.

[superluser]

she's still a mass murderer

No, she's not.

She's a serial killer.  Mass murderers kill a mass of people in one incident.  Serial killers kill a few at a time over several incidents.

Good Guys who do stuff like that are a bout as "good' as some SOB who convinces impressionable people it's "good" to blow up yourself and anyone who had the misfortune to take the wrong bus

Oh good.  Now we're onto the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.  This will end well.  And fast.

[Sid]

Oh my, quite the rant there. I'll try to keep international politics out of it...

it depends  on exactly what they're TEACHING at said school, and what the staff/student body does in thier time off.

It's an elementary school. I kinda doubt that they actually teach Lightning Strikes there. And you don't raid a school to get to a teacher.

I don't give a flying ****  HOW nice Kria is to kids or how amusing she might be occasionally, she's still a mass murderer, and one who in EITHER timeline shows no particular signs of stopping.

I'd guess that this also applies to most adventurers, unless you ONLY focus on those who merely grab their sword when a Demon is going all "I shall now begin the Apocalyptic Ritual!". Beings view Creatures as inherently evil, so their inhibition will be low when it comes to killing. We just don't read of the Demon Gardener being slaughtered before the "hero" can enter the bad guy's mansion.

There's very little grey about it....the general public just seems to be too morally lazy to bother trying to make the distinction, so they just paint everything grey, try and try to pretend that black and white never existed in the first place...at least, until it's THIER turn to take the wrong bus.

There is more than enough grey either way, but you get rid of some of it by forcing YOUR point of view onto everybody. The Creature races are almost ALL older than the Being races, if I'm not mistaken. Beings and their fancy laws are relatively new in the game, so why should Creatures bow to the law of a Being?

The point of view of the Creatures is completely valid and not TOO much different fromt he view of Beings or our society. The only thing that changed is scale, but you don't see it because you put Creatures and Beings onto the same level.

If we apply this to our world, we would simply say "Killing a living creature in an act of not-self-defense is murder", I'd face murder charges for accidentally running over a cat. Or a fly, to put it to an extreme level. Cattle farmers would be charged with pretty much genocide, I guess.

Of course, our world is not that simple. We keep animals as pets or kill them for food, resources or fun. We do it because we are stronger and more advanced. Nobody asked the animals about their point of view, we just do it, and we don't see these killings as an evil act.

Creatures are better, faster, and stronger. Their life span is measured in FACTORS of a Being lifespan. To them, Beings are more or less ambitious primates. No natural defenses, no widespread access to magic, no hyped abilities, no nothing. This is their point of view. Beings are little more than a by-product, and killing off a few of them is no big deal. Kria grew up with that mindset, and it only changed a while ago, thanks to Lorenda (and maybe Moira). By her race's standard, she is not evil. Just like the cattle farmer is not evil by our standard. Asking PETA might lead to different results, though... which again goes to show that it's all a matter of perspective. So you won't get far with that black/white approach unless you convince everybody to play by your rules.

And before you try: Other people tried that. Both fictional and non-fictional. From Star Wars to WW2, from DMFA to your crisis du jour, there will always be at least a second point of view that is equally valid to the degree yours is.

[Alan Garou]

My Thoughts:
1. Poor Abel
2. Kria's wings are beautiful
3. Jy-Orange!

[Eibborn]

Good Guys who do stuff like that are a bout as "good' as some SOB who convinces impressionable people it's "good" to blow up yourself and anyone who had the misfortune to take the wrong bus

Oh good.  Now we're onto the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.  This will end well.  And fast.

QUICK SOMEBODY BRING UP HITLER, TOO

[Sunblink]

Y'know, I wouldn't entirely be surprised if this ended up being booted into the Underground Mine, which is a big shame. I was rather enjoying all the friendly speculation.

~Keaton the Black Jackal

[Sid]

Y'know, I wouldn't entirely be surprised if this ended up being booted into the Underground Mine, which is a big shame. I was rather enjoying all the friendly speculation.

This case is quite clean and isolated. My guess is that the posts about the tangent will just be branched out into the Mine,. leaving the main thread intact (though reduced in post number).

[Kenji]

Just be careful. Thread reduction is dangerous as the the operation may cause it to become infected with ATP. That's Angry Troll Posts. It's a very serious matter.

Onto an actual topic that matters, however, I love how Kria's wings make her hair stand out all the much more. 

[Reese Tora]

Good Guys who do stuff like that are a bout as "good' as some SOB who convinces impressionable people it's "good" to blow up yourself and anyone who had the misfortune to take the wrong bus

Oh good.  Now we're onto the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.  This will end well.  And fast.

QUICK SOMEBODY BRING UP HITLER, TOO

Trying o invoke Godwin's law? *smites with Quirk's Exception*

My Thoughts:
1. Poor Abel
2. Kria's wings are beautiful
3. Jy-Orange!

yay, I'm not the only one who noticed it
Since Jy is a scientist and inventor, would that make Orange-Jy a clockwork orange?

[Alan Garou]

Just be careful. Thread reduction is dangerous as the the operation may cause it to become infected with ATP. That's Angry Troll Posts. It's a very serious matter.

Would those Angry Troll Posts form Angry Troll Pustules? But more on topic, my opinion of Kria has dropped even lower than before.

[superluser]

[Desperately trying to get the thread back on topic...]

A-ha!  I didn't find her drying her hair, but I did find Lorenda diving into a pool.  No earrings.  And no wings.

[Tapewolf]

A-ha!  I didn't find her drying her hair, but I did find Lorenda diving into a pool.  No earrings.  And no wings.

Interesting.  Also rather irritating.  Do we have any other examples of wingless demons?  I may have to reinstate that bit of the Wiki.

Of course Lorenda might be some strange Being-Demon hybrid just like Amber says can't happen (at least, not with 'cubi) 

[Sid]

I swear to God, Amber's pulse rises each time somebody talks about halfbreeds
And we don't really know enough Demons to be sure. Other than that, I really don't know (and I'm too lazy to dig out Amber's previous statements about halfbreeds right now, so I can't verify if winglessness is part of what the Being father can pass on - just like the species of the child, since Lorenda took after her father, species-wise).

[superluser]

Do we have any other examples of wingless demons?  I may have to reinstate that bit of the Wiki.

I'm on it!

Of course Lorenda might be some strange Being-Demon hybrid just like Amber says can't happen (at least, not with 'cubi) 

To quote Amber:

Demons/angels on the other hand...you can be half.  You don't have such a startling transformation of powers and energies like a Cubi that make up your race.  You can be primarily a being but with wings...or a normal-looking gal who has the ability to make her skin rock-hard.  Lorenda is a half-breed in the sense she does not have the full epic scale of powers like her mom does who is a full-blooded demon.

[Tiger_T]

Yay for zebra-wings!
Can't go wrong with stripes, you know.

Nice subtle thing with the skull-bone-button. I didn't even notice that Abels wings vanished at first!


OK, time for speculation.

Abel will go ahead and leave. He'll then return shortly after to get something he forgot and will - by accident- watch Kria cleaning up the place/snacking. (off screen obviously, to go easy on the comics rating)

Poor Abel.

[Sid]

OK, time for speculation.

Abel will go ahead and leave. He'll then return shortly after to get something he forgot and will - by accident- watch Kria cleaning up the place/snacking. (off screen obviously, to go easy on the comics rating)

That would make their inevitable meeting in the main comic... interesting to say the least.

[Tapewolf]

I'm on it!

The 'find other examples' bit or the 'update the wiki' bit?  Because that quote from Amber is gold.

Abel will go ahead and leave. He'll then return shortly after to get something he forgot and will - by accident- watch Kria cleaning up the place/snacking. (off screen obviously, to go easy on the comics rating)

He has no possessions.  What could he forget?  Besides, when Kria says she'll be around to see him later, that's prophecy.  She has the brooch in the mainline and Abel doesn't- Q.E.D.
That is a perfect opportunity for Abel, slightly recovered after the horrible things he's seen, or May, to ask what the heck Kria was doing there in the first place.

I was wondering whether Abel is going to somehow drop the brooch in Glory's sight, like the way the One Ring sometimes comes off your finger in The Hobbit.

Oh yeah, about the green eyes thing - speaking as a programmer it probably wasn't designed for heterochromiacs, i.e. the author assumed both eyes were the same and only took the colour value from one of them

[Alondro]

Kria is an Angel!  Not and angel-race... but an Evangelion Angel!  And Abel is all whiny like Shinji!  Then Fa'lina will force him to pilot a Gryphon mech which has the cloned body of an Angel in and create Third Impact... which will give her Tri-wings!  Third Impact=Tri-wings!  Do you see!?  DO YOU SEE!!!