A furre among SEALs?

[Eibborn]

I am also very interested in your personal opinions about warfare, soldiers, etc. So please, post away and argue all you want. I am eagerly awaiting the first reply.

I... Don't know. I've been having something of a crisis of ...well, philosophies. Up until less than a year ago, I was a pacifist. I made fun of myself for it, but I really do not believe I would have actually hit or hurt anyone. Now... I don't know. Some people seem to deserve harm for their actions, and I don't know if I could prevent myself from actually hurting one of those. 
With this change in philosophies, my ideas of military actions have adjusted similarly. Ask again after I've got some time to mull it over.

[Creativity]

 A BERET style cap, there isn't much of a brim

[Stygian]

Well, Eibbor, there are many varying degrees and types of harm. And that is not just horrible, but also extremely practical. It means you can moderate harm and pain done using experience in order to find the appropriate amount at all times.

Now personally, I'm a lot more for disarming, crippling and such than causing pain. I don't understand how it could possibly feel good to cause pain to someone else; physical pain is a personal thing and simply cannot be translated or shared. At least not as of yet... I do understand how one could take pleasure in it (not going to make any examples here, I'm sure you can imagine), but dealing it...

Fear though, is something entirely different. Reducing someone to a desperate, shivering, crying bundle without so much as touching them... now that takes skill. But most of all I like the idea of making the powerful, influential or arrogant tremble in fear of someone "lesser". There is nothing that symbolizes justice quite the same way.

[DigitalMan]

Fighting for the side of good, by making evil curl up into the fetal position and beg for mercy?

I'm liking this guy more all the time...

And it is definitely worth noting that nothing is black and white, including destruction and pain.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

A BERET style cap, there isn't much of a brim

Therein lies the challenge. :-P

[ITOS]

I believe that in order to take one life, the effect of the kill must be that at least two lives are saved.



*reads own post again*

I hope it's comprehensible. 

[Stygian]

Somewhat. Personally, I would very much want to consider the lives in question first. I'm not afraid to judge people, but it's not because I don't have any moral compunctions, but rather because I know that in certain situations... there is no choice.

[bill]

Reminds me of that quote an anoymousassassian once said. Something along the lines of:

"I don't think of who I'm killing, I'm thinking of who I'm saving."

[Stygian]

That is an old and wise saying. Supposedly it hails from an old templar motto, which goes as such; "As you draw your sword, think not of whom to kill, but whom to spare"

[Wildy]

Personally, I'm all for joing the military. I'm a military brat myself and if my life situation were slightly different right now I would be enlisting myself. Starting to get kinda old for it I think, but it still may be in my future somewhere.

Best of luck to you and here's hoping you are able to stay safe. I think that motto is a good one, sometimes people have to die for others to stay safe. You have to do what you have to do to protect yourself and your way of life. Many may not think it all matters now, but it will in the end. We just can't see it yet.

[Stygian]

Did you just say you hope I die in service?

Man, I am so moved right now.

[Wildy]

No I didn't say I hope you die in the service, I was referring to people who don't like those who join up, but the true fact of the matter is, sometimes people do die and its commendable that those who do join up are taking that fact and doing it anyway. Putting theselves in danger to keep other safe.

Trying to pay you a compliment man. Take it for what its worth.

[Gornemant]

There's a point.

Gornemant, have you considered signing up for your local Coast Guard? I'm sure the Swiss would be glad to have you....

for what, patroling the lakes? X3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vBn2_ia8zM

and as far as military goes, I would've probably joined (as in wouldn't have tried not to join) if I didn't waste so many years...

[bill]

Become an officer in the Air Force, a.k.a. United States Air Force and Country Club.

[Stygian]

That's a good one, Bill. As for Wildy, I was joking, precious. Lighten up. I would never be as stupid as to not get what you're saying (or at least, I certainly hope so...), and never be so rude as to insult you with my reply. I hope you take me seriously on that. Many of my friends say I can be creepy sometimes, but never once have I been called plainly mean.

On another note, just got back from a party with my friends to celebrate my last day as a stupid, responsibly inaccountable youth. We celebrated in a fitting fashion. I'm gonna get another big scar on my shoulder. But we decided to end early. Tommorrow's going to be another deal, though...

[EvilIguana966]

Become an officer in the Air Force, a.k.a. United States Air Force and Country Club.

Ever browse past USAF bases on google maps?   The surrounding areas tend to have a surprisingly high density of golf courses and country clubs. *grin*

I can't help but wonder who you're going to fight, and what for. You asked for our opinion so I'll say it; just thinking about war and the military makes me shiver. I can't understand how some people can actually want something like that. Even people who are otherwise nice and friendly.

Gabi, if everyone in the world were as friendly and accepting as you are there would be no need for any military.  Unfortunately, humans are and will likely always continue to be a potentially violent animal.  Education, culture, peaceful religion, and the collective wisdom of 10000 years of human civilization have gone a long way towards making our lives more peaceful and fulfilling, but underneath all that we still have animal wants and needs and universal personality flaws.  There will always be people who seek to better themselves by going out of their way to harm others, and there will always be people of this type who can convince oithers to join them on that quest.  Thus it is necessary for any group of people to have a means of defense.  The best kind is the type that is credible enough to deter violence in the first place.  That is why we need militaries. 

As for why somone would join up voluntarily?  Well I'm sure it's different for each person, but there are a wide range of reasons.  First off, there is duty, that some people feel obligated to sacrafice a bit of their own time, effort, and potentially life to secure the safety of others.  Second, there are more readily tangible benefits of military service.  The pay is not going to buy an enlisted man 2 houses a yacht and a private jet, but they get very good job security, guarenteed room and board, a great physical fitness regimen, good real world training and often some very good benefits when their service is complete, including college scholarships and other GI benefits.  Third, back to the more intangible, some people are unsure what to do with their lives, and military service can teach discipline, teamwork, confidence and a multitude of other attributes that are advantageous to have.  Fourth, there are things you can do in the service that you just simply cannot do anywhere else.  Want to get 3 of your best friends together and drive a 70 ton steel beast across the sand?  Fly a jet at 2100 MPH at 110,000 feet?  Get a ride on 5 billion dollar nuclear powered submarine?  Not many other places you'd get those opportunities, and that's certainly at least a bit of a draw.  I challenge any man to deny they've ever thought it'd be cool to blow some inanimate objects up.  The power of testosterone compells you!  But seriously, the male mind may very well play some part in it.  But, as somone incapable of personally serving at this time, I could be all wrong about this stuff.  I'm just doing my best to describe what I see in others and know about myself.  I tend to think that if things were a bit different in my life I'd have liked to join the service. 

[Jack McSlay]

Personally I'm glad I didn't have to do it (the army here went on a budget two days before my exam  ), I'm not patriot enough to be happy about wasting an year of my life learning things that will be useless to the rest of my life and some others that I don't need the military to teach me (such as discipline, etc), as well as having to deal with insane schedules

while getting to deal with war machines can be cool, the military base here is focused around building bridges, not much weapon-y, and the day I saw a bunch of recruits cutting grass off the street, it wasn't very inspiring (actually, I laughed)

[DigitalMan]

[long-ass post here]

Now I wanna join the military

[Cogidubnus]

"And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

May the day come soon. 'Till it does...here we are.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

for what, patroling the lakes? X3

You have a lake? :-)

[TheDXM]

Congrats, friend. I'm sure it wasn't easy. How long was training for you? And can you recall what was the -worst- part of it? Maybe you don't want to though.

If I weren't as down-to-earth as I am, I would've wanted to get into the Army Rangers, and possibly even Delta (Yeah, right!) but I can't ever see it happening.

Right now I'm opting to get into the reserves and, I hope, get my firefighter training through them. But I can always go fully active I suppose.

Heh, I wonder how many of the forum goers have a military background.

[Stygian]

It was only for one day that they tested us, between 07:15 and 17:00, but there'll be more to come in order to determine just what we'll be doing on our assigned positions. That's going to be a few more days for me on a later occasion. As for training... Well, I've had some weeks before this doing stuff with organizations such as the national guard and others. Latest one I did was some city warfare training with Livgardet (roughly translates as "Life Guard", more of an urban combat force). But that was more than a month ago. I don't really go in for that kind of stuff seriously; after all, it isn't more than amateur training.

As for the test, it was something like this; first, I got up at 6:20, complained at my dad for being a slouch since he couldn't get his scrawny ass out of bed and since we only have one boat to go over to the mainland with right now. I arrived at the locales at 7:20, as I had to take a later train, but it didn't matter that much since we had a presentation and instruction session to begin with, one that hadn't really started yet at that. After said introduction, we went on to do a mental test, mostly logic and perception problems, but also some reading comprehension and math and such. We were also asked to fill out some forms anonymously afterwards, surveys of course. After that it was about ten in the morning, and we went on to the medical examinations. General health, vision, hearing (a doctor expressively said that my hearing was just creepy. And I got a few more questions about my scars than I would have liked...) and some other things, an EKG for example. A guy showed up for that who didn't look as much as sixteen to me, I remember. Don't think he passed.
   We had lunch at about eleven, and were given a thirty minute break afterwards to discuss and digest. After that, there were the physical examinations, starting with strength. I maxed out the graph on the IsoKai (it's basically an inertia-operating bar-lift, designed to adapt to the testee's strength), and was sent on to the stamina test, which consisted of bicycling with progressively increasing resistance. And of course they glued electrodes and sensors to us to measure our pulse and oxygenization levels and such. To get my nine full points I stayed on for a quarter of an hour. Then I had to get those electrodes out of my hair... We went on to a short rest, and then to the psychologists who profiled us. Mine, I didn't like. He said I was too "cold and unfeeling", and that I might put people off. Nevertheless, I passed pretty well. I guess I must have made some kind of good impression after all.
   Since i aspired to be a ranger, after the regular testing I went on to the ranger's test afterwards, which included further strength tests in among other things the legs and especially knee joints (we put on a 50-pound backpack and did some pushups and one-legged step-ups). Then we spoke to a counselor about available positions and such. I got a pretty neat profile, and could pick out pretty much whatever I liked. Mind though that they never assign anyone to a lower position than their exam results allow them. I picked the 95th airborne rangers, at Karlsborg.
   After all that, I went to a store, bought some fresh pasta, olives, chicken filét and creme fraiche. Then I got on the train and went home, made myself a nice dinner and had a glass of wine and just enjoyed the peace.