2020-8-14 [DMFA#2005] warrior therapists

[MT Hazard]

Looks like we might be seeing a certain jackalope therapist again, perhaps Jyrras or Lorenda can give Dan her number.

comic 235

[Carmeops]

it's funny, but the more the comic insist that Dan's father is NOT Aniz, the more i'm suspicious about it...

i mean, the whole goal of Aniz was to produce a child that looked like a member of clan with a living Clan Leader in hope they get adopted in the clan, mix blood with them, then use a ritual to link himself back to a clan's energy network, because he got mad when he was severed from his own clan when their Clan Leader died

then let's assume it WAS Aniz, it's the perfect opportunity, while he is hiding, raising the last of his attempts, which looks like a fail, he save his old lover, who is the last descendant of a living Clan Leader, and have a child with her, which looks like a success, but they have to wait for the child to reach adulthood to be certain he is an incubus, so he can do his ritual right away and have a Clan Leader again, but he got captured and imprisoned before that

that would fit perfectly in the story, instead of "being killed by a woman whose husband just happen to look exactly like him, then the husband lose his wife and marry the old lover of the guy that his former wife killed" this second version sounds too suspicious no matter what

[Tapewolf]

that would fit perfectly in the story, instead of "being killed by a woman whose husband just happen to look exactly like him, then the husband lose his wife and marry the old lover of the guy that his former wife killed" this second version sounds too suspicious no matter what

Well, Aniz' modus operandi seemed to consist of finding someone who looked very much like him and taking their place, so the resemblance would be by design rather than by an insane coincidence.
I certainly couldn't rule out a multiple bluff on Mab's part.  IIRC from the QA session on Furaffinity, the most recent words he uttered were supposed to be something like "Well, I tried..." - which I assumed were his dying words, but, in a scenario where he's still alive, could equally be the last words he said before the Dragons put him into suspension (referring to the mission he was on there).

Hopefully we'll one day catch up with Edward and we may then be able to put this thing to bed, one way or the other.

[Lying Foo]

"Well, I tried" - most likely, then, impersonating Edward got him killed.

[Tuyu]

You can do it, Amber. They're just spots.

[Drakkenmensch]

it's funny, but the more the comic insist that Dan's father is NOT Aniz, the more i'm suspicious about it...

And Destania wanted to have a child with him, which is why she resented Abel so much... I mean, her replacing Quintiglia who was married to a near exact duplicate of Aniz would add up completely, especially considering that M.A.C.E. discovered something about Dan's parents we were never privvy to.

[Hariman]

it's funny, but the more the comic insist that Dan's father is NOT Aniz, the more i'm suspicious about it...

i mean, the whole goal of Aniz was to produce a child that looked like a member of clan with a living Clan Leader in hope they get adopted in the clan, mix blood with them, then use a ritual to link himself back to a clan's energy network, because he got mad when he was severed from his own clan when their Clan Leader died

then let's assume it WAS Aniz, it's the perfect opportunity, while he is hiding, raising the last of his attempts, which looks like a fail, he save his old lover, who is the last descendant of a living Clan Leader, and have a child with her, which looks like a success, but they have to wait for the child to reach adulthood to be certain he is an incubus, so he can do his ritual right away and have a Clan Leader again, but he got captured and imprisoned before that

that would fit perfectly in the story, instead of "being killed by a woman whose husband just happen to look exactly like him, then the husband lose his wife and marry the old lover of the guy that his former wife killed" this second version sounds too suspicious no matter what

Aaryanna forgets that people CAN change over time, so Aniz might be so thoroughly deep into the role that he WOULD give his son the advice to see a therapist, because it's part of the disguise. 

I honestly can't tell if Aniz was disguised and became Dan's father or not. 

I lean more towards NOT being disguised, and actually being dead, because of Destania's continued instability.

[MT Hazard]

page 1437 "his father's a being"

Also, has anyone considered the idea than Dan's father could a descent of Aniz? One of his many children who didn't become cubi, who then had children themselves, it's quite possible one of them could  look like Aniz.

It's going to interesting if Edward and Abel meet, seeing someone who looks so much like your dead father is going to be a shock.

[Radagast]

it's funny, but the more the comic insist that Dan's father is NOT Aniz, the more i'm suspicious about it...

i mean, the whole goal of Aniz was to produce a child that looked like a member of clan with a living Clan Leader in hope they get adopted in the clan, mix blood with them, then use a ritual to link himself back to a clan's energy network, because he got mad when he was severed from his own clan when their Clan Leader died

then let's assume it WAS Aniz, it's the perfect opportunity, while he is hiding, raising the last of his attempts, which looks like a fail, he save his old lover, who is the last descendant of a living Clan Leader, and have a child with her, which looks like a success, but they have to wait for the child to reach adulthood to be certain he is an incubus, so he can do his ritual right away and have a Clan Leader again, but he got captured and imprisoned before that

that would fit perfectly in the story, instead of "being killed by a woman whose husband just happen to look exactly like him, then the husband lose his wife and marry the old lover of the guy that his former wife killed" this second version sounds too suspicious no matter what

Eh...that seems to neglect a few very important details. 


For starters, we have the matter of goals. 
While Aniz may have been looking to replace Edward, the goal would be to get with Alexis's mother, Quintinga...who is credited with killing him.  The plan's a wash as soon as Quintinga dies, and Aniz's (despicable) methodology is better served at that point by cutting his losses and moving onto the next couple rather than stepping into the role of the now single Edward. 

Then comes the big one, the matter of the Ex. 
To say that Aniz and Destania had a bad breakup would be an understatement, but all accounts are that Destania still held a candle for Aniz centuries after the breakup, while Aniz wanted nothing to do with her.  He was the one who walked out in a rage.  He was the one who refused to stay at SAIA when Fa'lina offered him a deal because he didn't want to be anywhere near the woman who'd kept him from dying with his clan. 

Meanwhile, Destania waited for centuries for any word about Aniz, and left the safety of the academy as soon as she heard he was killed.  Given where she ended up and the state she was in at the time, it's not unreasonable to surmise that she was seeking to avenge Aniz's death with suicidal recklessness. 

And really, that's what makes the idea that Edward is really Aniz strain credulity.  It boils down to the idea that the guy whose methodology is "kill a man so as to sire a kid with the man's wife" would masquerade as a the widower of the woman who died in battle with him. And then that he would use that identity to have a whirlwind romance with an Ex he evidently despises, with the aim of having kids with her.  Mind you, that's an Ex who still held him dear in her heart centuries after the breakup and evidently wanted kids with him.  Nothing about that chain of events makes sense for him. 

[Tapewolf]

For starters, we have the matter of goals. 
While Aniz may have been looking to replace Edward, the goal would be to get with Alexis's mother, Quintinga...who is credited with killing him.  The plan's a wash as soon as Quintinga dies, and Aniz's (despicable) methodology is better served at that point by cutting his losses and moving onto the next couple rather than stepping into the role of the now single Edward.

This is true, but there is another factor at play - the fact that Zinvth want his head.  If Edward's dead, and the person who knew him best is dead, that's a pretty good place to hide.

Meanwhile, Destania waited for centuries for any word about Aniz, and left the safety of the academy as soon as she heard he was killed.  Given where she ended up and the state she was in at the time, it's not unreasonable to surmise that she was seeking to avenge Aniz's death with suicidal recklessness.

Destania seemed to be very confused about whether she wanted him dead, or wanted him back.  Given the stuff she said in the following page, it looks more to me like she went there to make sure he was dead.

And really, that's what makes the idea that Edward is really Aniz strain credulity.  It boils down to the idea that the guy whose methodology is "kill a man so as to sire a kid with the man's wife" would masquerade as a the widower of the woman who died in battle with him. And then that he would use that identity to have a whirlwind romance with an Ex he evidently despises, with the aim of having kids with her.  Mind you, that's an Ex who still held him dear in her heart centuries after the breakup and evidently wanted kids with him.  Nothing about that chain of events makes sense for him.

While what you say is by and large correct, it's interesting to note that the top-tier 'Cubi believed this was the case. 

However, if you want a good argument against Aniz being alive, Destania's remark to Biggs is pretty damning.  If Aniz is alive in the form of her husband we have the dual problem of her trying really hard to kill her own stepson, and that she's just told Biggs Aniz is dead (having earlier had his people try to find Edward's location).

[Radagast]

Meanwhile, Destania waited for centuries for any word about Aniz, and left the safety of the academy as soon as she heard he was killed.  Given where she ended up and the state she was in at the time, it's not unreasonable to surmise that she was seeking to avenge Aniz's death with suicidal recklessness.

Destania seemed to be very confused about whether she wanted him dead, or wanted him back.  Given the stuff she said in the following page, it looks more to me like she went there to make sure he was dead.

You'll have to walk me through that one, Tape.  I honestly don't see how what she said on that page suggests that. 

While what you say is by and large correct, it's interesting to note that the top-tier 'Cubi believed this was the case.

Eh, ish?  Piflak assumed as much, but in the same breath she also demonstrated that we needed to take her assumptions with a grain of salt, as she assumed that Destania had abandoned her plans and settled down to a quiet life with Aniz, both of which we as readers know to be false, as she has been shown on screen actively collaborating with Biggs to destroy the dragon race...who allegedly have Edward in suspension.  And that's before the suggestion of Seme's representative that they'd researched it and Dan's father was in fact a Being rather than Aniz (and considering their interest in helping the remnants of Clan Siar, it's not unreasonable to assume that they did their due diligence). 

[Tapewolf]

Destania seemed to be very confused about whether she wanted him dead, or wanted him back.  Given the stuff she said in the following page, it looks more to me like she went there to make sure he was dead.

You'll have to walk me through that one, Tape.  I honestly don't see how what she said on that page suggests that. 

OK, now I've had time to do more of an archive dive, let's see if I can make this clearer.  There is a large body of evidence to suggest that, while she was very deeply in love with Aniz, latterly she also wanted to kill him, very, very badly.  Probably because he hooked up with someone else (Actually, Fa'Lina says that directly).  That she would risk her life to try and get back with him is a nice idea, but it looks a lot like wishful thinking at this point, unfortunately.  It would be nice to see evidence to the contrary.

Looking at 298 again, it is a bit more nuanced - try reading the first panel with the context that she's talking to an ex-adventurer called Edward, but believing him to be Aniz in disguise.
That aside:
Here we have Fa'Lina outright saying that Destania was confused about whether she wanted to kill him or get him back:  http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1599.php
Here we have Destania trying to recruit Abel to assassinate his dad:  http://missmab.com/Comics/Ab_049.php
And here we have Abel saying that he intended to kill his father:  http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1116.php (having been loaded up with combat techniques from Destania)
For good measure, we have her saying that she wanted to see the end of Siar's line: http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1375.php  ...while she's clearly talking about Abel, these are not the words of someone with a soft spot for his father.

Now it has been stated by Fa'Lina on more than one occasion (to Abel and Dan respectively) that Destania is unstable and mentally damaged, so treating her as if she's a rational actor is going to get you unstuck (and this was one of the underlying flaws of the original Edward-Aniz theories, they assumed she was in some way sane).  That said, the two big constants in her recent life appear to be killing Hizell, killing Aniz and killing Abel (much as I would like to believe 298 showed Aniz and Destania getting back together).

While what you say is by and large correct, it's interesting to note that the top-tier 'Cubi believed this was the case.

Eh, ish?  Piflak assumed as much, but in the same breath she also demonstrated that we needed to take her assumptions with a grain of salt, as she assumed that Destania had abandoned her plans and settled down to a quiet life with Aniz, both of which we as readers know to be false, as she has been shown on screen actively collaborating with Biggs to destroy the dragon race...who allegedly have Edward in suspension.  And that's before the suggestion of Seme's representative that they'd researched it and Dan's father was in fact a Being rather than Aniz (and considering their interest in helping the remnants of Clan Siar, it's not unreasonable to assume that they did their due diligence).

Yes.  Seme's representative is on the money, but the fact that Piflak of all people was happy to accept it at all means that the idea of Edward being Aniz is not as prima facie absurd to the people inside the comic, as it can be to people on the outside looking in.

[e_voyager]

I wonder if Dan is still covered he be going on Hiatus for quite a bit. In fact I think his last official Adventure was his failed attempt to prevent Dark Pegasus from rising yet again. The prior one to that was saving the kingdom of high-end again which was what 3 years ago now maybe four?

[Tarakona]

page 1437 "his father's a being"

Also, has anyone considered the idea than Dan's father could a descent of Aniz? One of his many children who didn't become cubi, who then had children themselves, it's quite possible one of them could  look like Aniz.

It's going to interesting if Edward and Abel meet, seeing someone who looks so much like your dead father is going to be a shock.

This is my favorite theory so far! It would be weird to consider Dee hooking up with a child of Aniz, except that we know she's unhinged. Also, she'll go to any lengths to accomplish her goals.

[Radagast]

OK, now I've had time to do more of an archive dive, let's see if I can make this clearer.  There is a large body of evidence to suggest that, while she was very deeply in love with Aniz, latterly she also wanted to kill him, very, very badly.  Probably because he hooked up with someone else (Actually, Fa'Lina says that directly).  That she would risk her life to try and get back with him is a nice idea, but it looks a lot like wishful thinking at this point, unfortunately.  It would be nice to see evidence to the contrary.

That much I get and agree with fully.  It's the next part about her assuming Edward to be Aniz in disguise that gets me, as to me that reads very much like simply assuming the conclusion.  Could you read it that way?  Sure?  I mean, it's a possible reading, but it doesn't seem an especially probable one considering the whole "my laws" and "you shouldn't be so kind" thing. 

To clarify though, I wasn't suggesting that Destania was risking her life to try and get back with him.  I was suggesting that his apparent death set her off (whether for killing the love of her life or denying her the satisfaction of destroying him herself) and she went to Lost Lake in a reckless bid for vengeance.  Destania ended up broken and bloody on the Inn's doorstep with her headwings on full display.  Considering this is the same Cubi who managed to impersonate a phoenix in order to trick adventurers into carrying out a hit on Abel, that scene feels very out of character for her, which begs the question of what made this different.  Grief/rage turning into suicidal recklessness makes sense for me in a way that "I now know where he is, I'm going to kill him myself" does not. 

Yes.  Seme's representative is on the money, but the fact that Piflak of all people was happy to accept it at all means that the idea of Edward being Aniz is not as prima facie absurd to the people inside the comic, as it can be to people on the outside looking in.

Granted.  My point was not that it was bizarre for the characters to believe it, but that the speaker was demonstrably an unreliable narrator in that conversation and that as consequence her belief made for poor evidence, as we know she didn't have all the facts. 

[Tapewolf]

That much I get and agree with fully.  It's the next part about her assuming Edward to be Aniz in disguise that gets me, as to me that reads very much like simply assuming the conclusion.  Could you read it that way?  Sure?  I mean, it's a possible reading, but it doesn't seem an especially probable one considering the whole "my laws" and "you shouldn't be so kind" thing. 

Right, so it's just that one page we're at loggerheads over.  True, it is entirely possible that given how old the page is the plot has shifted underfoot and we're trying to make sense of something that just doesn't add up anymore.
We don't really know how easy it is for one 'Cubi to positively identify another of their kind, but my reading was that she's giving him this spiel about how she's going to destroy him to see how he reacts and if he breaks character, i.e. if she knows what she's going on about at all.  If he does, he's Aniz and she kills him.  If not, he's just some Being, no harm done.
However, another possibility is that, knowing that he's just some Being and not Aniz, she's evaluating him as a possible ally to see how he reacts in the face of death.