2013/06/07 [DMFA #1407] Calling a spade a spade

[VAE]

I might have a new favourite clan leader <3

[killpurakat]

Her bluntness is refreshing. Even when it is devastating, I prefer people state the truth. Somehow, I think Zezzuva does as well, and is doing so here. It does fit with what we've seen. (Although I think Cyra is aware of what she did and regrets deeply.)

Now, will Dan listen or not? I'm betting on "not."

[Jasae Bushae]

Well very little of what she has said really warrants Dan believing her. XD

[Ganurath]

I always wondered what Tyrion Lannister would be like without a sense of humor.

Also: The clothing theft was more subtle, wasn't it?

[RandomMetaphysics]

Well very little of what she has said really warrants Dan believing her. XD

Zezzuva lays it on thick, but I honestly can't find that many faults in her claims. From what I've seen, Destania is quite insidious.

On another note, I gotta hand it to Dan... he's maintaining his composure quite well.

[joshofspam]

That last panel, like a honest, blunt adult telling a poor clueless child a hard truth that they know they won't by and walks away excepting the fact there's nothing they could have done.

This isn't the first person to tell Dan that his mother is evil either. Both Abel and Fi have given accounts what possibly lies under the surface of Destania.

Though I think it is possible Destania loves Dan, I think she can easily hold grudges and rages higher on priority. Just her response to Alexsia dating a dragon and Abel being left behind at the inn have convinced me of that.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Also: The clothing theft was more subtle, wasn't it?

What clothing theft? Dan still has all the clothing he had on several strips ago, before the meeting with Jeremiah and Abyss.

Or are you talking metaphorical clothing, in which case, yes, much more subtle. Like a barrel of fish and an elephant gun.

[Madd the Sane]

And that, my friends, is called "Kicking below the belt." This particular kick was quite vicous and painful in its delivery, but no matter the delivery, he'll still be walking funny.

[Angel]

I feel like I swallowed something cold.

I have trouble believing that Destania doesn't love Dan. True, she has no idea what's best for him, but she's doing what she thinks is that. I also don't believe she's incapable of love; look at what she's doing for Edward's sake alone. Granted, how she treated Alexsi is pretty damn cold, but as Pyroduck and Abel have explained, Cubi have a nasty habit of getting stuck in their emotions and memories. While I think Amber said Destania's not in an emotional loop, it's easy to see that she's fixated regardless. And when you fixate on something, everything else takes a backseat.

Also? Leave it to the llama to be a jerk.

[kztxl7]

I feel that what she is saying is right on the money but her choice of words for the ending statement was out of line.

I don't have trouble believing the possibility of her not actually loving Dan.

[joshofspam]

I feel that what she is saying is right on the money but her choice of words for the ending statement was out of line.

I don't have trouble believing the possibility of her not actually loving Dan.

Her choice of final words maybe out of line, but it also shows she has no problem of sharing what's on her mind.

In some part, I can't help but feel that she's at least trying to warn Dan about her mother. If anyone of the Tri-wings would at least have any clue of what she's up to, I'd figure it would be on Zezzuva.

[Tapewolf]

On another note, I gotta hand it to Dan... he's maintaining his composure quite well.

Well, we haven't seen him after the last panel, but he must have suspected.  After Abel said she was evil and cold, and after Fi confirmed it, Dan's immediate next action was to try and locate her to establish the truth.  Mink said that he was scared because Dan was Destania's child, Jakob locked up and so forth.  Like the whole "I don't wanna be a 'cubi" thing earlier, I'd guess that he's at least started to accept that his mother might not be who she appeared to be.

Though it is rather a shame - having a child does change people and I'd hoped it was the case with her.

[Jasae Bushae]

Im also not so sure I would trust the judgment of one who nommed her own sister to become a triwing on any matters concerning love. ^^;

[Tapewolf]

Im also not so sure I would trust the judgment of one who nommed her own sister to become a triwing on any matters concerning love. ^^;

True, though supposedly her sister had gone paranoid and was driving her clan into the ground, if Taun Piflak is to be believed.  It's also very likely that 'Your mother does not love you' is not her own judgement, but the results of investigation.  (i.e. she's collated facts and opinions from all the other clans and reached that conclusion)

[Umbral]

For someone thousands of years old, she's not very smart. Why would she expect Dan to believe an assertion like that without any evidence?

[MT Hazard]

Did Zezzuva lose many people in the war? She could still hold a grudge.

Also
"All meetings are a test...even this one"

If Dest did just intent Dan as a first step in rebuilding clan Cyra she's doing a remarkably poor job of it, didn't even teach Dan the basic cubi ways, if Arry hadn't turn up he might even be dead by now.

[Tapewolf]

Did Zezzuva lose many people in the war? She could still hold a grudge.

She seems too dispassionate for that.  'Cubi are usually creatures of emotion, but she seems to be the opposite.

[Bandersnatch]

I wonder how long it takes to become a Cubi with little to no emotion, let alone a Clan Leader.

Anyways, I think Dan needed this, even if he doesn't believe it at first. Sowing the seeds and whatnot.

[Jasae Bushae]

Well regarding clan leaders it seemingly doesn't take THAT MUCH. *coughs* one just seemingly needs to aquire enough power comparable to a dragon and BOOM, clan leader. Like how Dan's granny with that city dragon (and accidentally, the city) or Zezzuva with her sister who was herself a clan leader. Or confusion cubi with turning an immortal phoenix into a boy.

Hmm, something occurs to me though. As cold and dispassionate as she seems, why did she even bother approaching Dan in the first place? I mean, it doesn't appear to be in her interest in any way what Dan thinks and theres little he could do to make the Cubi's appear any  worse than what his ma and granny have done already. (Deliberately or not)
So....Despite what she claimed, im wondering if this really IS a test and Zezzuva simply said otherwise because a test isn't really a test if your expecting it.


On a side note though, am I the only one surprised by the clan leaders personalities so far? XD
I confess, I imagined all of them at least partially resembled their affinitys some but Piflak has been crazy adorable (despite insinuations that she would be super scary)
Cyra (at least towards Dan) has been nothing but honest. (Explaining exactly and straight up front what she did and declaring herself responsible for the incident.)
and Zezzuva dosn't seem at all envious and is more cut off if anything.
And Nact'Larn.....Actually from what little we know, she could be exactly as advertised. XD I suspect the only reason she has not appeared on panel is because she would break the pg-13 rating. ^^;

[Amber Williams]

It has been fun giving the clan leaders a bit of a chance to actually er..."shine".  A thing I noticed when doing the clan side thing was that it was easy to assume that their emotional affinity rules them as individuals.   Granted Piflak does have a bit of pride, but encourages her clan to go out and do things in which to be proud of.  Cyra did not actually get to pick her affinity.  Neither did Zezzuva actually, it was the affinity of her sister when she first founded the clan. 

[Tapewolf]

Cyra did not actually get to pick her affinity.

"Okay, so it's not fear. Try love next.  It's got to be one of these!"

[Kazzellin]

I'm also not so sure I would trust the judgment of one who nommed her own sister to become a triwing on any matters concerning love. ^^;

True, though supposedly her sister had gone paranoid and was driving her clan into the ground, if Taun is to be believed.  It's also very likely that 'Your mother does not love you' is not her own judgement, but the results of investigation.  (i.e. she's collated facts and opinions from all the other clans and reached that conclusion)

Not just her sister; given the clan quirk, potentially her -twin- sister. That makes it all the more if you ask me. *headtilt* Tapewolf, when was this mentioned? Pretty sure it wasn't in the comic itself, so... Reference link, please? *wants to read*

It could also be the judgement of having encountered Destania/having spied on her. Her clan does specialize in mind reading and investigation/secret delving, after all. All someone from her clan would need to do, potentially, is lurk in Destania's vicinity while she's brooding, and depending on the mind shield, they could easily get an earful.

I find it interesting that Zezzuva doesn't move (even in the last few comics) except in that last panel. To me, she looks somewhat apologetic there. With her eyes the ways they are, it almost looks like she's in a trance or something. O_o

Cyra did not actually get to pick her affinity.  Neither did Zezzuva actually, it was the affinity of her sister when she first founded the clan. 

Hmmm... [speculation] Since Cyra's affinity is pain, can we take this to mean that what they specifically did to become a clan leader/their emotional status at the time has a bearing on what their emotional affinity is? The Dragon was surely in a lot of pain when he died, and being turned into glass can't be a pleasant experience, and given Cyra's apparent regret, it probably hurt her when she realized what was happening. Piflak surely must have been proud of becoming a clan leader; Nact'larn could have had people killing each other over her (thereby creating a soul smorgasbord in the process); Zezzuva's sister could have been feeling envious of the person she killed whose soul boosted her into triwing status... [/speculation]

[Tapewolf]

Not just her sister; given the clan quirk, potentially her -twin- sister. That makes it all the more if you ask me. *headtilt* Tapewolf, when was this mentioned? Pretty sure it wasn't in the comic itself, so... Reference link, please? *wants to read*

I do apologise, it was actually Piflak:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1599/piflakletter300a.png

(The question was about mind-control of clan members)
"While it is possible for a Clan Leader to directly influence their clan member's behaviours... it is highly unrecommended.  That kind of influence not only breeds discontent from your clan and thus resistance... which I should mention is something clan members can do.  That is after all one of the factors that influenced Zezzuva to overthrow her sister and take the clan for herself.  But it also can greatly dominate your own power and resources.  Several clans in history ended up failing simply because the clan leader became obsessed and paranoid and thus began trying to enforce outlandish principles onto their clan members."

[joshofspam]

I'm also not so sure I would trust the judgment of one who nommed her own sister to become a triwing on any matters concerning love. ^^;

True, though supposedly her sister had gone paranoid and was driving her clan into the ground, if Taun is to be believed.  It's also very likely that 'Your mother does not love you' is not her own judgement, but the results of investigation.  (i.e. she's collated facts and opinions from all the other clans and reached that conclusion)

Not just her sister; given the clan quirk, potentially her -twin- sister. That makes it all the more if you ask me. *headtilt* Tapewolf, when was this mentioned? Pretty sure it wasn't in the comic itself, so... Reference link, please? *wants to read*

It could also be the judgement of having encountered Destania/having spied on her. Her clan does specialize in mind reading and investigation/secret delving, after all. All someone from her clan would need to do, potentially, is lurk in Destania's vicinity while she's brooding, and depending on the mind shield, they could easily get an earful.

I find it interesting that Zezzuva doesn't move (even in the last few comics) except in that last panel. To me, she looks somewhat apologetic there. With her eyes the ways they are, it almost looks like she's in a trance or something. O_o

Actually considering her eyes, I wouldn't be surprised if a number of feelings ran through her at the time she overcame her sister. I'm guessing she was blind with eyes like that, so I wouldn't be surprised with a clan saying with "Where the strong shall rule", that she might have had a less then pleasant life under her sister's rule.

She may have a rare insight to love that quite a few Tri-wings lack. Not a pleasant one to be sure, but possibly relevant to Dan's relationship with his mother.

[Prroul]

I think Destania does love Dan in her own way. However, her own world view is so warped and twisted from what most people have that few would consider it as such.

For example... Destania considers Dan 'safe' because he is at SAIA right now, so it's perfectly okay to kill off people he perceives as friends and family because she feels they are ultimately going to be dangers to him, or at least need to be exterminated. With zero consideration for how he might react to it. In fact, doing so behind his back because she doesn't want him to suffer needlessly, so presenting him with a Fate Accompli and a clean break would be much less damaging to him in the long run than letting them ultimately betray him.

So yes, I believe that Destania does love Dan, but because of her mindset, this can actually be more dangerous for Dan than if she disliked him.

For this reason, Zezzuva probably tells Dan that she doesn't love him because she believes that Dan is not capable of comprehending 'she loves you, but will kill everything you care about anyways because in her warped and twisted mind she's just trying to protect you from yourself'. So she simplifies it.

[Lurkie]

Zezzuva seems to have taken several levels in "emotional blunt force trauma".  But I think her bluntness is exactly what Dan needs; he's not exactly a model of subtlety.

Destania raised two children, and to all outward appearances loved them both.  Yet she's just thrown Alexsi under the proverbial bus, seemingly with no regrets.  I fear the only reason she wouldn't do the same thing with Dan is that he's an incubus.  Even then, she still might.  Abel is an incubus after all, and she wants to kill him as a surrogate for his father.  In her way, Destania is just as much a monster as Aniz or Hizell, and Dan needs to understand this.  (I wonder if Destania does?)

[Kuzma Volkov]

Did Zezzuva lose many people in the war? She could still hold a grudge.

She seems too dispassionate for that.  'Cubi are usually creatures of emotion, but she seems to be the opposite.

Dunno... Blame it on the sci-fi I've been reading lately but she seems more and more to be putting on a mask of apathy.

[Nino]

I don't think Destania loves Dan and I don't think she even fools herself into thinking she does. I'm pretty sure she did what she taught Aniz to do - find some naive being and trick them into thinking you're a good person and then use them to produce more cubi offspring. As for doing her job poorly, yeah - she's impetuous and quite a bit twisted, so she's not thinking about every variable I'd imagine. But I think her thinking was that as soon as Dan became a Cubi he'd be shipped off to the academy and safe from harm for awhile.

I don't think Destania wants to expand clan Cyra for clan Cyra's sake. I think she wants to become a triwing herself and obviously doesn't want to be a leader without a clan.

Remember - everything Aniz did to May - she was the originator of. We can assume she's equally if not more so heartless, ambitious, and capable of deception. I'm sure that's why she 'loved' Aniz as well is because he was kind of a kindred soul like that.

[Eboreg]

If Dest did just intent Dan as a first step in rebuilding clan Cyra she's doing a remarkably poor job of it, didn't even teach Dan the basic cubi ways, if Arry hadn't turn up he might even be dead by now.

She probably would've if Edward hadn't been kidnapped. To be quite frank, it's probably best to tell a kid that when he's older and you're sure he won't go blurting out secrets everywhere. Also, the fact that Dan didn't practiced magic was probably welcomed by Dee since it wouldn't mean any clan markings and, subsequently, inns getting blown up. Also, she made pretty dang sure that Dan would not kill any 'Cubi and end up later regretting the decision wholeheartedly. (Think Simeon Kaye from Project Future)

I also happen to think that Dan has more than enough evidence to believe what Zezzuva is saying. He has Abel's word for it and Fi quickly backed him up without any reason to hide anything. Mink and Yak(ovlev) (don't ask) also provided ample evidence for her reputation. I think that he's actually grudgingly admitting it now and Zezzuva's words will probably cause more deadpan realization than denial. (As in, "Yeah, I guess she doesn't")

[Les]

Being a sadistic, self-centered, and out-and-out Evil monster does NOT automatically mean 'Doesn't love her own kid'.


Just felt like pointing that out..

..and that Zezzuva may have an angle in all this, as-yet unseen.