Buying a new Comp

[Kafzeil]

Now that I have the money, I'm in the market for a new computer. Thus far, mostly for space reasons  I've been leaning towards An All-In-One, likely a Dell Inspiron One 2305, though I'd like some opinions, words of advice, and the like before i settle on anything.

I'll likely use it for web surfing and the odd game(Stuff I can't play on consoles, like Civ V.) and I'd prefer to keep the cost below 800 dollars(CAN), so any thought? Words of advice? Stuff i should know?

[Drayco84]

First off, is this the comp?

If so, then what do you want a touchscreen for? Plus, since it's not an actual desktop, something like that will be IMPOSSIBLE to upgrade later on, should you decide that you need to do so. (Heck, read the review. 1.6GHz CPUs can handle most ordinary tasks, like web browsing, but that's about it.)

And second, You want to play games like Civ. V? (System Requirements here.) Sorry Kaf, it just ain't gonna happen on that thing...

Third, it's a DELL... So no. Just... No.

I recommend clearing up some desktop space, going to Newegg.com, (Here.) shop around, compare prices/specs/reviews, and then making an informed decision.

[Kafzeil]

Like I said, SPACE! Something DOn't have a lot of Dray. I honestly don't know where I'd put the tower. The desk i have pretty damn narrow. Also, with a desktop I'd need to buy a new screen. Again, I'd like to keep the costs down. Remember: 800 dollars. I'd also likely be foregoing the touchscreen for cost.

Also, Please elborate on why Dell is so Bad, "No, Just no" does not help me.

[Tapewolf]

I haven't had much bad experience with Dells myself, but I don't use them at home.  One of our desktops has been running 24/7 as a low-end server since late 2004.

What are you currently using at the moment? 

[Mao]

Also, Please elborate on why Dell is so Bad, "No, Just no" does not help me.

This is important, and I'm glad you said it Kaz.  There was an amendment to the rules that mentioned that these kind of statements were frowned upon in the tech help threads on the grounds of it being more of a case of pushing one's favorite brand/os/agenda etc and less of a case of being actually helpful and informative.  Drayco, please, in the future elaborate why something is bad, at a bare minimum.

The rule in question:

http://clockworkmansion.com/main.php?page=rules#rule05d1

While the rule talks mostly about OS preference, I think the same idea applies here.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Personally, I'd be inclined to recommend against Dell myself, but that's because I feel Dell does expensive desktops, won't remove the OS, and they tend to run very hot.

... which has a deleterious effect on their lifespan in the home environment.

At work, it's a different matter, if only because it's a totally different environment.


Sadly, all this is merely hearsay, and I have nothing other than a vague feeling to back it up, so feel free to ignore it if you like what you see.

On the subject of monitors, if you have one already, you might be able to get Dell to skip sending you one. You may have to make an order, and then call them; I'd suggest calling them first to confirm, though.

[Ryudo Lee]

Personally, I've never had a bad experience with Dell.  We use Dell exclusively where I work, and we've only had a few hangups which Dell has been more than happy to fix.  I recently purchased an XPS system for my sister and she can't say enough good things about it.  Sure, my last two desktop computers were built by me, but after having played with that XPS, I'm actually considering getting a Dell desktop myself (if only because I get an employee discount).  And the Alienware laptop I bought from them is awesome beyond words (but expensive).  So, in my opinion as an IT professional and a home user, Dell is actually a good choice.  But, as always, your mileage may vary.

If you really want to go on the cheap though, you should probably look into a refurbished machine on either Tiger Direct or NewEgg.  Sure it's used, but they usually do a good job of cleaning them up so they at least have another couple of years of use.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I don't have a problem with my dell, myself - well, other than the overheating issue that the design tends to exacerbate.

The service has been fine, too. I never used it at all, until after my warranty had expired; after that, I didn't bother calling them.

At work, the major issue we have is that we've had something on the order of a 2-3% RAM failure rate across the 130 odd servers and 1326 DIMMs we have in one DC. In four months. That, to me, is far too high.

Other than that, though, I'm not your average home buyer. So... my experience (for home, not for work) may well be different.

[Drayco84]

This is important, and I'm glad you said it Kaz.  There was an amendment to the rules that mentioned that these kind of statements were frowned upon in the tech help threads on the grounds of it being more of a case of pushing one's favorite brand/os/agenda etc and less of a case of being actually helpful and informative.  Drayco, please, in the future elaborate why something is bad, at a bare minimum.

Kafzeil caught me on the chat and asked for more details about it. And yeah, I realized my mistake after I had made the post. To repeat, these are the reasons I don't like Dell...

1: They use cheap ram that normally has LESS than their system specs list. (As in, your 1GB of RAM is really 950MB of RAM, according to the OS.)
2: They usually short systems on RAM to begin with. (I've seen "Vista-Ready" PCs with less than 1GB.)
3: They use motherboards that require expansion cards, and don't include many PCI slots to begin with. (As in, PCI cards plug into another card, which plugs into the mobo. I dunno if they still do that nor to how many models. Regardless, the one my dad took apart was old and the company didn't want it anymore.)
4: BLOATWARE! Holy crap, the BLOATWARE that comes with the comp! (Yeah, I know most PC makers do this, but it's still a cheap move. The fact that SOME of it won't really uninstall is another problem...)
5: Recovery disks are "optional/premium". (I dunno if they still do that or if the people I was talking to during the job really did get one and wouldn't know it if it jumped up and bit them. So many times at my one job I wanted to scream "THOSE DISKS AREN'T AN OPTION, PEOPLE! IF SHIT HITS THE FAN, YOU WILL NEED IT!")

Personal reasons: (Just plain, ugly bias here.)

1: Most often when I asked what the model of MODEM they had and the person didn't have a clue, the response was "It's a Dell." TO be fair, I also got "HP" and "Compaq", but most often it was the Dell line.
2: The damn "Duuude, you're getting a Dell". commercials. Granted, they don't anger me as much as the "Windows 7 was my idea." nor the "I'm so-and-so, and I'm a PC." commercials, but they still annoyed the crap outta me.

And to be brutally honest, I feel the best kind of comp is a custom-built computer. Support is non-existent, but you can do WHATEVER the heck you want to it and there's no BS-crapware trying to stop you. At least, until you take it online and run afoul of something...

[Kafzeil]

Tape: An old Hand me Inspiron 9100. Again, I know a bit more about the brand, though I am aware of Dell's heating issues.

Boxy: Funny you should say that. I found our old LCD screen sitting in storage. I'd have to test it but I'm pretty certain it works.But if I can use an old monitor that clears up some money for a desktop.

Ryudo Lee: Thank you, I'll have peek at those sites.

Also, I'm thinking of eschewing the All-In-On in favour of a desktop or Lapton now, due to resconsidered factors, though with laptops I'll admit I'm flying blind.

[Tapewolf]

Tape: An old Hand me Inspiron 9100. Again, I know a bit more about the brand, though I am aware of Dell's heating issues.

Right.  I was wondering if you had an existing screen, keyboard etc.

Personally I'm a fan of desktops, if only because the modular approach means that you can start out cheap and improve it later.  To some extent you can also do that with a laptop, but there are definite limits.  Dell do have a definite tendency to use nonstandard parts in their desktops, though.

[Drayco84]

Personally I'm a fan of desktops, if only because the modular approach means that you can start out cheap and improve it later.  To some extent you can also do that with a laptop, but there are definite limits.  Dell do have a definite tendency to use nonstandard parts in their desktops, though.

About the only things you can upgrade on a laptop are RAM and maybe Hard Drive. (For a netbook, only RAM is upgradable, but still pretty easy.) Plus, the more gaming-worthy the laptop is, the bigger the chance it'll have heating issues. On the other hand, the desktop tower can me moved to a different location. (On the floor, under the desk, armed with dog/cat/rabbit repellent... I wonder if they make 5-1/4 drive-things armed with that stuff...)

For laptops, I'm obviously a fan of Asus for a couple reasons...

1: HDD is pre-partitioned into 2 sections. (They also have a backup System Restoration thing on the drive itself, located in a read-only section of the HDD that the mobo can boot from.)
2: The BIOS can take a firmware flash/upgrade and keep on ticking. (I did this twice to my netbook. It went though it without a hitch. I dunno how many mobos can claim that.)

Sadly though, Asus is NOT sold in most stores. Second, while the comps stay cool and the battery life is long enough to take to college courses and leave it on all the time, it sacrifices a lot of processing power to achieve that. (Seriously, this thing has been on for hours and it's barely warm... I've had hot pads get warmer...)

[Tapewolf]

About the only things you can upgrade on a laptop are RAM and maybe Hard Drive. (For a netbook, only RAM is upgradable, but still pretty easy.) Plus, the more gaming-worthy the laptop is, the bigger the chance it'll have heating issues.

Netbooks may or may not have a replaceable disk, but I think they fail at the hurdle of running Civ 5 anyway.  Laptops generally have a way of getting at the disk which is good because the disk is usually first to go in my experience.  Some of them have upgradable video too (MXM) but I've never seen one that has this.
For a desk-bound laptop as in this case, it's feasible to add a USB keyboard and external monitor and thereby upgrade those, but yeah, that's about your lot.

[Madd the Sane]

I would recommend a Mac mini, as it has a low price point and the specs should be able to run Civ. 5. However, if you have a strong preference for Windows, or a strong dislike for the Mac OS X, you should be able to find a cheap compact computer from Dell or HP.

[Tapewolf]

I would recommend a Mac mini, as it has a low price point and the specs should be able to run Civ. 5. However, if you have a strong preference for Windows, or a strong dislike for the Mac OS X, you should be able to find a cheap compact computer from Dell or HP.

Well, given the price they are here, I figured that was way over his budget.  It should be about 900CAD, though for some reason it seems to be more like 750.   Also, he'll have to buy a monitor and a keyboard, which will put the price up and probably exceed his budget if it didn't before.  Also, if he wants to dual-install Windows on it (or replace OSX) he's going to have to buy windows and that's not cheap either.

EDIT: Also, they're no fun to upgrade.  Not sure about the new ones, but the old ones need a putty knife to upgrade the RAM or disk.  It's basically a laptop in a small, square box - you can, at a pinch, upgrade the processor but I can't really recommend that as it will run very hot (I did and now mine approaches boiling point if it's doing anything very CPU-intensive.)  The only way to upgrade the video is to buy another one, which costs more than a transatlantic flight.

They're nice machines but they do have a lot of drawbacks.

[RobbieThe1st]

Personally, I'm not too fond of Dells, and I have good reasons why:
First off, we need to make a distinction between the "consumer" Dell line, and the "Commercial" Dell line(There is also the "Gaming" line, branded Alienware, but we don't need to get into that right now).
From what I've run into, the Commercial line of products is actually fairly good - and this includes laptops, desktops, and servers. However, these machines cost quite a bit more than their Consumer counterparts.
The Consumer products, especially laptops(which end up taking abuse) are horrible. I know quite a few people who have had their laptop fall apart after a year of use, and some models had major problems that would require the motherboard to be replaced every year or so(!).
Actually, to take this even farther, -most- Consumer laptops are quite poor - You will find people with Acer, Dell, HP etc. laptops that just fell apart under moderate use.

So, the problem is this: Buy a cheap laptop, and it will fall apart on you. Buy a better one, and it'll cost you. This represents a major problem.

My solution(so far) is the Lenovo ThinkPad line(mainly the T-series). ThinkPads are Lenovo's(formerly IBM's) Commercial line, and are extremely well built(These things will last many years under -heavy- use). They are also surprisingly cheap compared to Dell or HP's equivalent offerings.
Admittedly, you will have to buy a used one if you expect to get anywhere close to your budget - New, a well-spec'd machine will run you between $1000-$2000US, but as I've said, these things -last-, and getting one off Ebay isn't so much of a risky proposition.
Now, in order to run Civ. 5, you are going to need to get one with a Dedicated graphics card - Lenovo makes ones with both a ATI/Nvidia(depending on model) graphics card and a Intel series 4 integrated GPU(You can switch between them on the fly for power savings), or with only the integrated card.

Hope that helps!

-Rob

Note: While not entirely relevant to this, I have an Alienware monitor(120hz AW2310). Yes, it was slightly overpriced, but it's well built to say the least.

[Reese Tora]

what? dell computers?

I've had good experiences with them calling tech support as a representative of the company I work for.  Granted I use business support, not general consumer, but the main thing about them that I like is they have full service instructions available on the support website for the desktops and laptops (unlike a certain other company whose name starts with H and ends with P) so you can just order the part and do it yourself if a laptop is out of warranty. (same applies to those mini towers where the order of insertion and removal is actaully important) and that saves you at least $100 in labor costs as opposed to that other company that requires all laptops be sent in, no self service aside from RAM upgrades.

Of course, you guys are talking about desktop computers.  We haven't had any problems with the desktops that we have from Dell, either, and I've never had to talk to tech support about them.

For myself, though, I still prefer to build it myself from parts that I picked out.

[Kafzeil]

Slight update: That Computer will be purchased after christmas. Mostly because I realized I need to buy presents.

[Drayco84]

It's just as well. The prices of current comps SHOULD drop when they unveil the latest and greatest in January.

[RobbieThe1st]

Admittedly, not entirely useful at this time, but I happened to have this <$600 decent gaming desktop build-list lying around:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=21682188
It comes with a Tri-core 3.1ghz processor, 4GB of ram, a 1TB harddisk and a GTS 450 video card.
Good enough for just about anything you want to throw at it, and will feel fast, too.

[Drayco84]

^^^
We'd need to be logged into your account to see that...

[RobbieThe1st]

Oops; copy-pasted the link and got half of it. It's been fixed.
Thanks.

[Drayco84]

I noticed that the mobo you selected contained a built-in GPU, and I had to go to Wikipedia to look up the card's specs. (NVIDIA didn't list the freaking specs on their site. NOT pleased with 'em.)

If your GPU needs aren't THAT high, one can order the other parts and skip the Video Card for a while. ($124 cost.) CPU has an unlockable 4th core, so that's a plus, but most reviewers advised getting a third-party fan. (If doing it yourself, I HIGHLY recommend the fans that use a mounting bracket that the fan screws into. Makes attaching the fan MUCH easier and kills some guesswork in a situation where you're already as nervous as hell. Plus, they're only like $20-$40 more.)

Shame the power supply unit is out of stock, though... (Oh well. Corsair already impressed me when I ordered one, so I'd recommend them anyway. Plus, their cables EASILY reach across the biggest cases you can throw at 'em.)

[RobbieThe1st]

Yea, I suppose skipping the GPU would work fine - I built it for a mid-range gamer, though, so...
If you really wanted to save money, skip the OS too - Either use Linux, or grab an old one of your licenses and use that.
I've replaced the missing mobo and powersupply with comparable ones - Again, it's a 500W and a bit overkill, but it turns out that you can draw over 750W from it, making it even -more- overkill!

Corsair impresses me too, but their latest low-end "builder" series doesn't impress me so far.