04/05/10 [AS2#96] - A Man of Few Words

[Robbychu]

Apparently I'm between the two camps. How odd for me. While Aary does have a point, she's not getting it across in an effective manner--or at least, not one that would be effective on Abel. And Abel DOES need to deal with his issues... buuuut probably not through killing/maiming his dad. Even though death's probably the best option for a guy who can punch through walls.

@Anker: Are they invisible pink unicorns?

[Jairus]

Tilts Jaurus' quote stack - Wheeeee. 

I see religious people do this everyday, calling it divine intervention.

Strange how divine intervention needs mere mortals to work   

He he, yeah - Apperantly god needs their help.
Me, I prefer to have faith in unicorns.

Invisible pink ones?

I like George Carlin's take on the issue. All-powerful God, and he just can't seem to hold onto money. Tsk tsk.

Apparently I'm between the two camps. How odd for me. While Aary does have a point, she's not getting it across in an effective manner--or at least, not one that would be effective on Abel. And Abel DOES need to deal with his issues... buuuut probably not through killing/maiming his dad. Even though death's probably the best option for a guy who can punch through walls.

@Anker: Are they invisible pink unicorns?

NINJA'ED! Curse you!

But yeah, I'm in the same camp as you. Don't worry. Though I do feel that Abel at this point just isn't up to recovering. He's taken an important first step with talking to his mom, ever so briefly, but it'll be a while before he's gotten it all worked through.

[Anker Steadfast]

@Anker: Are they invisible pink unicorns?

Well, obviously they are invisible, elseway someone might just steal them from me !!! 

[Bjalf]

No, you have completely missed the point.  Freedom of speech does not extend to getting into other people's face. For instance, this is not freedom of speech. Outside a military camp that would be classified as assault. There are no absolute rights.

I'm going to poke at this little monster here:  I'm sorry, but that is entirely dependent on where you live.

Frankly, if anyone were to try and take Aary to court over what she's doing right now where I live, ...

I'm gonna agree with Mao here. What Aaryanna is doing here isn't assault, or at least doesn't seem to be. Abel is also equally in his rights to turn around and ignore her, to tell her his reasoning and try to make her see his side of the argument, or possibly even to tell her to go screw herself. Now, if she were to start stalking him and constantly yelling at him about how he's failed as a Cubi, then we might have something, but as it is now, yes, she is well within her rights.

The assault comment was not about Aary, but the musclehead in the youtube link. I really wouldn't want to live in a place where that is an acceptable expression of freedom of speech.

[Mao]

Apparently I'm between the two camps. How odd for me. While Aary does have a point, she's not getting it across in an effective manner--or at least, not one that would be effective on Abel. And Abel DOES need to deal with his issues... buuuut probably not through killing/maiming his dad. Even though death's probably the best option for a guy who can punch through walls.

Doesn't need to kill or maim his dad at all.  If Kria can make an impenetrable place (though that may have been a more recent discovery as it happened in the main arc) I'm sure a government or authority could too.  Locking him up might be the safest solution.  Could even try and find a way to appeal to his sensibilities (I know, that one's a stretch when you consider that Aniz is a bit out of his gourd).  It's not good for trying to rebuild a clan if you're pissing people off.  Particularly some of the folks Aniz has been managing to irk.

[Anker Steadfast]

Don't worry, the nasty musclehead has brought upon himself an eternity of waxing the unholy Purple Oyster's shell. 

[Pvblivs]

Doesn't mean he has to stay there, listen or accept it.

Well, what do you know?  What he is doing is walking away.  So, he isn't staying there, listening, or accepting it.  It seems that, on that point at least, he is doing the right thing.

[Arcblade]

I can't tell what the squiggly's expression is in that last panel.  He doesn't look worried, or surprised... kinda blank.  Opinions, anyone?  

Also, I'm very much of the opinion that this strip foreshadows the main comic.  Fa'Lina kicked Abel out of the Academy, and now Bad Things are happening.  I'm thinking crap is going to hit the fan soon.  

[Mao]

Doesn't mean he has to stay there, listen or accept it.

Well, what do you know?  What he is doing is walking away.  So, he isn't staying there, listening, or accepting it.  It seems that, on that point at least, he is doing the right thing.

A wild troll has been spotted! 

What will you do?

  Fight Run
  Item  Capture
>Counter

Whether it's the 'right' choice or not is strictly a matter of opinion.  Seems to me that it's just more of him running away.  Nice try at a dig at me though.  Mad props.

[Pvblivs]

Whether it's the 'right' choice or not is strictly a matter of opinion.  Seems to me that it's just more of him running away.  Nice try at a dig at me though.  Mad props.

Criticizing him for walking away (even by calling it "running away") is tantamount to saying he has to stay there and listen.  It's just a point of consistency.  Which is it that you believe?  Does he have an obigation to stay there and listen?  Or is walking away a perfectly acceptable thing to do?

When people said that Abel was a coward for not going back to Zinvth earlier, they were essentially saying that he had an obligation to do so and that he failed to meet the obligation.  (I don't think we have enough information to judge whether he had such an obligation or not.)  Even though I think the position was adopted on insufficient evidence, it was, at least, a consistent position.

The situation with Aaryanna is different.  She is just a fellow student sticking her nose in uninvited.  He, therefore, has no obligation to stick around.  He is exercising what you, yourself, recognized as a valid option.  So, on this one point (dealing with Aaryanna) he is doing the right thing.

I make no determination on whether the points Arryanna is trying to make are valid in themselves.  But I do note that it is not her place to make them.  Fa'lina could make them.  Or perhaps a school counselor could make them.  That would also be an instance of cooler heads prevailing.

[TheZombie]

I disagree . Abel´s problem is a problem of everyone meeting him to some extent and i might say even the whole cubi community. Double since the interests of Dee, (and Aary, her friend and student) coincide with those of Abel, and everything would run so much smoother if he went along!
Therefore it is rightfully her business.
Triple as she is sick of hearing the tale of woe of Abel, which is the only thing he seemingly does.
I think though instead of talk, Dee should have put forward some really awe inspiring show of power  to Abel - it would convince him by shock that Aniz is not a powerful cubi at all , and might set him straight.
Though she does not seem to bother, and i do not wonder - for her he is an unimportant possiible addition in the revenge plan.
And no, Aary is not goading him to do something stupid - what they plan is both good and feasible, and it is just Abel who does not see...


True sometimes it is the case, like S.J.Lec said ¨there always are eskimos eager to advise Congo citizens how to behave in extreme heat waves ¨ but that is not Aary´s case.

Heyo, just registered.  Anywho.

I really don't fault Abel for his actions or lack thereof.  Aary has always seemed to have this whole "rah rah rah! Go Cubi!" overdrive level of pride when it comes to her heritage.  So she ends up pushing those such as Abel or Dan away who have a little more moral baggage when it comes to accepting their "monstrous" heritage.

So Aary is miffed that not only did Abel not choose to side with her "BFF" Destiana(sp), but also did not plunge headlong into learning to tap into his heritage.  But what she doesn't realize is that Abel's dad killed his mythos friend using cubi powers for reasons relating to cubi political machinations.  So going Aary's route could make Abel fearful that he would be becoming what he hates in his father.

I can totally empathize with Abel in this situation.  Heck.  I think if all the terribleness that happened to Abel happened to me I would spend most of my time in a vegetative stupor, only to rouse to attempt to slice of mine own headwings or shriek bloody murder whenever so much as any other cubi like even Mink entered the room.

[Mao]

Criticizing him for walking away (even by calling it "running away") is tantamount to saying he has to stay there and listen.  It's just a point of consistency.  Which is it that you believe?  Does he have an obigation to stay there and listen?  Or is walking away a perfectly acceptable thing to do?

When people said that Abel was a coward for not going back to Zinvth earlier, they were essentially saying that he had an obligation to do so and that he failed to meet the obligation.  (I don't think we have enough information to judge whether he had such an obligation or not.)  Even though I think the position was adopted on insufficient evidence, it was, at least, a consistent position.

The situation with Aaryanna is different.  She is just a fellow student sticking her nose in uninvited.  He, therefore, has no obligation to stick around.  He is exercising what you, yourself, recognized as a valid option.  So, on this one point (dealing with Aaryanna) he is doing the right thing.

I make no determination on whether the points Arryanna is trying to make are valid in themselves.  But I do note that it is not her place to make them.  Fa'lina could make them.  Or perhaps a school counselor could make them.  That would also be an instance of cooler heads prevailing.

Tantamount to saying that he has to?  No, it isn't.  Saying what I feel is the right choice does not imply any sort of obligation.  I am not obliged to be nice to anyone.  I think it's the best solution, but I am by no means bound to do so.

No one was saying anything about 'duty' or 'obligation'.  People have their own feelings on what they think is the best course.  I have every right to have my opinion on the actions of another, regardless of what their or my obligations actually are.

The situation with Aaryanna may or may not be different.  We don't know her connection to this yet, despite all of the speculation on the matter.  Given how passionate she seems about it, I'd say she has a stake in it.

Anyone can make any statement of opinion that they wish as far as I'm concerned.  She can say however she feels whenever and where ever she wants.  Who are you to decide that she has no right to voice her feelings or, by extension, have those feelings?  Why are others allowed but not her?

As for cooler heads?  Calm and rational folks make as many mistakes as irrational folks, at least with humans.

[Tangent]

Okay. Once again I do want to point out that while it is considered "cowardly" by a number of people that Abel basically abandoned his mother, you must consider one important point: could and would all these "allies" of Abel who wanted to use him to get to Aniz protect May for years and decades while allowing her to continue to live her life, and provide this protection 24/7 until either Aniz was neutralized or May died of natural causes?

No. They wouldn't. They'd get bored. Or they'd give up and do other things. And then when May was alone and unprotected, Aniz may have taken that opportunity to strike and make May's last moments extremely horrifying, painful, and brief. And so very very bloody.

While it may be "cowardly" for Abel to have vanished from his mother's life for all those years, he did this partly to protect her. Because even Fa'Lina couldn't tell if Aniz was serious or not. (Mind you, Fa'Lina could have offered one last thing to Aniz before he left - allow his son visitation rights to May in exchange for not killing May or even being anywhere near her, in exchange for maybe a hundred or so years taken off that ban between children. Aniz probably would have accepted that gladly, so long as he knew Abel would continue doing lessons and being in SAIA.)

So while Abel was a coward for avoiding his mother, and while it was undoubtedly not entirely because of the death threat against May, his actions were warranted.

[Chakat Blackspots]

Aary is right, one day Abel won't be able to run away.

Also, Aaryanna's waist is soo tiny.

[Attic Rat]

One small observation: Fa'lina, the nearly all-knowing, nearly all-powerful cubi who created Saia, knows every detail of the situation and has never suggested that Abel should do anything about it. Perhaps Aary should go talk with her, and find out what is really going on..?

It's best to know the facts before going to war, as a general sort of rule.

[Anker Steadfast]

Not that it has ever stopped someone from going to war.

Aary is right, one day Abel won't be able to run away.

Also, Aaryanna's waist is soo tiny.

Her clothes makes her waist seem even thinner than it actually is.
Not that it's massive or anything, she is after all a succubus.

[Mao]

No. They wouldn't. They'd get bored. Or they'd give up and do other things. And then when May was alone and unprotected, Aniz may have taken that opportunity to strike and make May's last moments extremely horrifying, painful, and brief. And so very very bloody.

This is the only sticking point I really have with what you've said.  1)  You have no idea if they'd get bored or not and (we don't know everyone who would even sign up for it! I can't see Destania getting bored, she's waited a long time to get at Aniz and will likely wait a while yet, if he shows up to kill May, she gets her chance in a matter of decades, not centuries) 2) not even Fa'lina was sure if he was serious about that threat.  For all we know, it was a complete bluff.  It could even just be an arrogant claim with nothing to back it up other than a high opinion of himself and an underestimation of those who might want to protect her.  

[bradypodidae]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in another thread, and since I ran out of popcorn earlier I haven't read this thread all the way through, so If I'm repeating someone, please consider this a "second" to the thought:

I can't help thinking that Aaryanna's words in the last panel, "I'm sure one day you will find a problem you just can't run away from," isn't a bit of foretelling of what is beginning to happen to Abel in the main DMFA arc. IMHO, Abel is about to run into a person or situation that he will find most unpleasant, and he won't have the luxury that he did at SAIA to just "walk (or push) away" and ignore the person/problem. I keep thinking we are going to witness a defining moment in Abel's life, just as we did at the outpost, and at the hands of Aniz.

[Ghostwish]

*munches on popcorn as he watches this thread* 

[Chakat Blackspots]

Not that it has ever stopped someone from going to war.

Aary is right, one day Abel won't be able to run away.

Also, Aaryanna's waist is soo tiny.

Her clothes makes her waist seem even thinner than it actually is.
Not that it's massive or anything, she is after all a succubus.

Trying to make herself more sexy as a succubus?  If I saw someone in RL with a waist that small, I'd be worried that they were anorexic.

[Anri]

Yeeees, I think Neo Citron is the best way for Canada to have said 'welcome' to Amber. It is the best cold and flu medication EVAR! Theraflu doesn't even compare.

[Mischa]

*munches on popcorn as he watches this thread* 

*agrees*

Apparently, comics are Serious Business for some people.

[Tangent]

No. They wouldn't. They'd get bored. Or they'd give up and do other things. And then when May was alone and unprotected, Aniz may have taken that opportunity to strike and make May's last moments extremely horrifying, painful, and brief. And so very very bloody.

This is the only sticking point I really have with what you've said.  1)  You have no idea if they'd get bored or not and (we don't know everyone who would even sign up for it! I can't see Destania getting bored, she's waited a long time to get at Aniz and will likely wait a while yet, if he shows up to kill May, she gets her chance in a matter of decades, not centuries) 2) not even Fa'lina was sure if he was serious about that threat.  For all we know, it was a complete bluff.  It could even just be an arrogant claim with nothing to back it up other than a high opinion of himself and an underestimation of those who might want to protect her.  

And yet Destania has a job working in SAIA. Aary is a student at SAIA. Kria was a teacher back in Abel's childhood years, so who knows what specific jobs she may have. And we don't know who else offered to help, thus we don't know what jobs or obligations other potential "helpers" could offer.

May lived for around four decades after the Incident. Even assuming that Abel "got the balls" to visit after maybe a decade, how many years would it take before all of the guardians let their guard slip? And it doesn't even matter if they stay on duty. If their guard slips and Aniz gets in and kills May... then it doesn't matter if he's captured, killed, or whatever. Abel's mother would still be dead and it would be his fault for daring Aniz's wrath by visiting.

Oh, and people on the forums would be blithely stating "Abel was a fool for daring challenge his father's promise of homicide! He should be ashamed of himself!" =^-^=

[RandomMetaphysics]

Ok, while reading this thread, something just hit me.
Consider the following:

• We all know that Abel (and Fa'Lina) had no way of telling if Aniz was bluffing or not.

• We all (somewhat) agree that Abel could have probably done something about his situation
Abel says this as well as criticizes himself here: http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Ab_080.php

From what I can tell, Abel's "cowardice," stemmed mostly from the possibility that his mother would have rejected him. He pinned the blame on himself, and in honesty, I think it's safe to say May could have very well blamed Abel for her misfortune. In other words, Abel was afraid that his mother (who loved him dearly and vice versa) would lash out at him because his existence brought her such grief.

To support this claim, I ask all of you (who are intrigued by this debate) to recall the case with Devin. http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Abel_50.php

I think it's safe to say Abel was stuck between a rock and a hard place had to choose between a spike pit or a laser cave.

[Psychedelic Mushroom]

*munches on popcorn as he watches this thread* 

*agrees*
Apparently, comics are Serious Business for some people.

Me two..  Some people get riled up in here.  I'll just hide under my headphones and watch the thread unfold. Hey. Ghostwish share the popcorn. 

[Mao]

Srs bsns indeed.

*noms on some of the shared popcorn*

....

What?

[Trazz]

There's a little voice my head yelling something, but I can't make out what it's saying

Therapy helps. Or so I've heard.  


At least that is what the voices are telling me ...

I hear voices in my head, but they speak in Spanish, so I have no clue what they're saying...

[Drayco84]

Trazz, change that avatar pic. You're giving me a headache, not a seizure.

[VAE]

Heyo, just registered.  Anywho.

I really don't fault Abel for his actions or lack thereof.  Aary has always seemed to have this whole "rah rah rah! Go Cubi!" overdrive level of pride when it comes to her heritage.  So she ends up pushing those such as Abel or Dan away who have a little more moral baggage when it comes to accepting their "monstrous" heritage.

One of the things why i absolutely love the character - if i was a cubi i would   do the same pretty much!

[Angel]

...Don't you just love it when a story is so well written that people spend hours debating over the ethics of the characters? So much so that everything you wanted to say was already said and you have plenty of time to think up something new to say? 

Both sides are right here. Abel COULD have bettered himself and made allies and made sure Aniz would never be a threat to anyone else ever again. But the day he learned he was an incubus was the closest to Hell he or many other people could ever possibly be. Aary is proud of her heritage and ignored that, or acknowledged that but thought Abel should have gotten over it long ago. Thirty years is certainly a lot of time to - well, maybe not get over the pain, but to accept it and move on. Of course, Abel's pain isn't typical pain.

Both sides have good points, and certain flaws. The point here is not to debate ethics, but to enjoy a good story.