You're Just a Jerk Without a Soul, No Offense

[Grey Wolf]

It's been a year since I posed a similar question, so I figured it might be okay to start a new one now.

The aspect of the soul is an interesting thing for me, and I'm curious as to how it fits in DMFA canon. When I say soul, I mean the essence of the immortal self. There are however, many other meanings of the word: life-source, a person's moral judgment, etc.
So, when a 'cubi/demon/angel eats or destroys a soul, what happens to the immortal essence?

[Anker Steadfast]

I think Amber sells it to the devil so she can get better artist skills and draw more beefcake.

*nod*  *nod*

[A. Lurker]

Simply existing and being able to survive the death of the physical body is actually not sufficient evidence for souls being truly immortal (in the sense of "can't die and will always be around, forever" -- a concept that arguably treads close to being nightmare fuel anyway). I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that souls can in fact be destroyed just like anything else by simply using appropriate methods.

On the other hand, we have the Fae, who apparently have managed to keep their souls in circulation long enough without any losses that their population has remained effectively constant for quite some time. So it's also possible that souls (Fae souls, at least, others could plausibly differ) might in fact be indestructible...but that wouldn't necessarily render them immune to being trapped somewhere (like, say, right inside the Creature that ate them) for extended periods.

Just my two inflation-adjusted cents, of course.

[Tapewolf]

Souls can be destroyed, that has been mentioned a couple of times.

It's not known if eating them binds them to the 'Cubi or Angel doing the eating to increase their overall energy pool, but frankly I suspect it simply destroys them.

What happens when Beings or (non-Fae) Creatures die is unclear.  There seems to be a window of opportunity during which they can be resurrected, after which they can't.  This seems to be referred to as the soul "going beyond" which implies they enter a different state of being.
EDIT: DP's anti-undead spell as cast on Hannah seems to do this as a side-effect IIRC.  I'm fairly sure Amber would have stated if it actually nuked the soul instead.

I think of it as being like the model in David Gemmell's books, where there's a sort of purgatory that souls can be resurrected from, but eventually when the soul comes to terms with what they have done wrong in life, or the lover etc they were waiting for has also died (or whatever), they are able to ascend to that universe's version of heaven.
Bear in mind that this could be entirely wrong for DMFA, of course.

An alternative is that souls somehow break down or are recycled if they stay separate from their bodies for too long, and that is a pretty nasty idea.


EDIT:
As for Fae, AFAIK they don't have souls in the conventional sense.  What Albanion is referring to as a 'soul' is not the sort of thing that Beings, Angels, Demons, Cubi etc have - he was using that word so that Jyrras would understand.

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

I think Amber sells it to the devil so she can get better artist skills and draw more beefcake.

*nod*  *nod*

Beefcake is always good!  Heehee!


As for the soul, I personally believe in reincarnation. So to me the soul gets to live life over and over, until that specific soul gains a sense of enlightenment/fulfillment and then afterward the soul ascends to a higher plane of being where it reside in peace. Each enlightenment/fulfillment differs from soul to soul, because every soul is unique and is every changing, like life itself! 

So I guess, if a demon/cubi/etc eats the soul, that soul would be destroyed, since it would unable to be reincarnated. You only have one soul, so don't take it for granted! 

[Drayco84]

I think Amber sells it to the devil so she can get better artist skills and draw more beefcake.

*nod*  *nod*

Beefcake is always good!  Heehee!


As for the soul, I personally believe in reincarnation. So to me the soul gets to live life over and over, until that specific soul gains a sense of enlightenment/fulfillment and then afterward the soul ascends to a higher plane of being where it reside in peace. Each enlightenment/fulfillment differs from soul to soul, because every soul is unique and is every changing, like life itself! 

So I guess, if a demon/cubi/etc eats the soul, that soul would be destroyed, since it would unable to be reincarnated. You only have one soul, so don't take it for granted! 

To me, reincarnation sounds like the universe's cruelest joke... You live one life, die, maybe get to go over it with whatever lies beyond, and then get tossed back into a new life sans memories, lessons learned, and whatnot. So, you live through a second life in the hope of discovering "enlightenment". Repeat until... When, exactly? Your soul reaches lvl 256? Nine thousand? Seriously, I don't get it... What's the point of living lives over and over and over again without truly learning anything from it? I mean, you come in, advance so far and burn up so much time, you finally die, and then get set back to lvl 1 to start all over again! (Except you don't even get the wisdom and experience from your past life!) Plus, is doesn't adequately explain the concept of "ghosts".

Thus, I don't follow the idea of reincarnation, mostly because I'm hoping the universe isn't that cruel... (Then again, I've been wrong before...)

ANYWAY! Souls and the theories about them! (Mind you, I've thought about this a lot, so be forewarned. Also, my theories apply more to the physical universe. I ain't touching the furrae-verse with a 20 ft. pole, scientifically speaking anyways. Amber's word is absolute law there.) My personal theory is that life-essence and the soul are separate forms of energy. Life-essence is a form of energy used to keep creatures "alive", where the soul or whatever is attached to the body. On the other hand, the "soul" is something else entirely, something that I'm not even going to pretend to know what the hell it is. (Nor can I fathom what the true purpose of it is. Ask the universe or whatever created it, I've got nuthin'.) Despite this, what demons or whatever "devour" is really the life-essence. Yes, the subject in question is still dead, but you dodge the tricky question of "But what happened to the soul?". In some cases, perhaps the demon changes the soul a little, making it like them, a ravenous, devouring monster that seeks out any form of energy it can find. Or, perhaps it just releases "the beast within", that core of darkness within their heart/mind/whatever.

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

You are intitled to you opinions and beliefs Drayco84, however, I will go on with the rest my evening feeling slightly insulted. Thank you. 

[Bjalf]

Beefcake is always good!  Heehee!

Have you seen this comic?

[Rakyth]

I have spent the last 5 hours in endless trial, racked by my religion, my own thoughts and questions.

All in all, nobody can say what happens when we're put in the ground. We simply don't come back, wherever it is we go, if we go.

In terms of DMFA canon, I think the soul is absorbed as energy.

In terms of what I think should be DMFA canon, I think the soul should be completely absorbed-Kept within the demon host, tortured, maddened, enraged, just like the host. This is, of course, untrue, as soulstealers do not tend to be beasts, but rather the voice of reason.

There's this fear of mine...No heaven, no hell, no rest, no forgiveness. Nothing. The concept of everything stopping, my body growing older and weaker..It scares me. One day, I'll die, but then, what happens?

Edit: I am quite aware that I have a habit to derail topics, in some way or another.

[Anker Steadfast]

Beefcake is always good!  Heehee!

Have you seen this comic?

Ah yes, good old Min the Minotaur .... he got replaced!

[Alondro]

I'm fairly sure the souls eaten by Cubi are completely destroyed.  Why else would even some Cubi find the act horrible?  If the soul was simply trapped or drained of energy, but the 'person' part of it was left intact, it wouldn't be so awful.

I'm sure some Cubi get off on savoring the terror of their food and slowly drain their souls dry, keeping their consciousness intact until the last possible moment to enjoy the internal screams and sobbing as the poor Being realizes that there is nothing left but oblivion for them, nothing but to feed the monster who killed them, providing it with strength to keep killing other Beings!

*Charline whistles innocently*  Oh yes, some Cubi are very mean!  Not like me!  Nope... 

[Scow2]

I'm fairly sure the souls eaten by Cubi are completely destroyed.  Why else would even some Cubi find the act horrible?  If the soul was simply trapped or drained of energy, but the 'person' part of it was left intact, it wouldn't be so awful.

I strongly disagree

[Drayco84]

You are intitled to you opinions and beliefs Drayco84, however, I will go on with the rest my evening feeling slightly insulted. Thank you. 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend. (I just wanted to keep the discussion going.) My true, honest-to-goodness theory about the meaning of life is that we exist so some sadistic, all-powerful being can screw with us until the moment we drop dead. (And I suspect it'll still be screwing with us even after that. Just a heads up, everyone.) So, with that in mind, it's entirely possible. Again, I'm sorry. I'm still more than a little upset with my former religion, (Yes, I know that I'm not just tempting people to start a flame-war, I'm painting a target on my butt.) of Christianity. I've seen far too many people claim that they followed it, when in reality they dropped those rules and guidelines as soon as it was convenient for them. And, if you get deeper into the texts I'm gonna stop it right here. All I'm going to say is that something big and powerful beyond all comprehension (over)lords over the universe, and unlike the theory that it just abandoned its' creations to their own devices, it's really standing right behind them, watching... Like some perveted voyeur... Yeah, it's a scary thought, one that will drive most mad. MAAAAAD! BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (Ah-hem.) Yes, go ahead and wear that tinfoil hat if you want, but it won't help when part of that omnipotent being is part of you, making up your very soul! BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, hey! that's where I put my theory of what souls are made of! Man, I've been looking for that for a while now! Whew!

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend.

That's good and I appreciate the apology!  And I understand that you wanted to keep the discussion going (that's a good thing), however, it would nice if you could watch "how" you say something. It could be taken the wrong way and I'd hate for that target you just painted to actually be used.  There area ways to say what you want to say, without truly offending someone.



However, I will definitely agree with you on "dropping Christianity when it's no longer convenient thing", hence why I never wanted to believe in it.......................ugh
I also hate it when, some people will only take or follow parts of a religion and skew the rest of it in order to mold it, into following their views or morals. If you gonna truly believe and devote yourself to a religion, take it as it is and don't try to use it to define your reasons for you morals or actions. 

[Drayco84]

I'll totally agree that it could've been worded better. However, if I don't know (or can't think of a way) to make it more diplomatic or gentle, then I come off as subtle and gentle as a bowling ball dropped on someone's head. (Or bricks. I got lots o' bricks.) And while I wasn't really trying to bash the idea nor anyone's beliefs, it just -sounds- cruel that you spend a lifetime learning about how life works and then you all start over again from square 1. (But, for all I know, there could be a valid reason behind it, and I'm just too blind to see it.) In my defense, I also hated the original Zelda because of this... Of course, I was also rather young and left her in the middle of that ring of fire (Seriously, Gannon didn't even kill that much HP!) while I went back out and killed monsters until Link had enough rupees to retire, preferably to some tropical place and get a girlfriend that didn't need rescuing every friggin' game. (I don't care if she IS a frackin' princess, that dame is too high-maintenance. Seriously, let her GO, man.)

And my bluntness isn't helped by the fact that I usually question EVERYTHING. (Again, stems from issues with my former religion.) I apply logic to things to see that fits, what seems sound, and what doesn't. However, I have nobody to throw this stuff at. (And it doesn't help matters that I'm shy face-to-face. I prefer to sit back, watch interactions for a while, do a bit of probing, and get bolder as time goes on.)

And again, if I've offended anyone or sound like a jerk in any way, shape, or form, my deepest apologies. I don't get a whole lot of social interaction and I would prefer NOT dragging others into the mess that is my mental state. (And if I do, just remember that I'm some wierdo on the internet, and you don't have a face to pin onto me.)

Wow... On re-reading this, I sound like a somewhat nice Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory...

EDIT: Dammit... I'm doing it AGAIN, aren't I? *Shoves a foot into his mouth and calls it a day.*

[Grey Wolf]

All valid points, but I lean toward the idea that the... individual aspect of the soul survives to pass on, if only because I believe that people often lead several lives in several planes of existence at once.

Anyway you look at it, though, having your life-force sucked out would... suck.

[Anker Steadfast]

EDIT: Dammit... I'm doing it AGAIN, aren't I? *Shoves a foot into his mouth and calls it a day.*

*ties the shoelaces together*