05/29/09 [Abel 2 #56] - Blind Rage

[Garsemor]

Oh man, there are no happy endings here.

Well, I'll just bring in a slimy face 
From my point of view the comic might turn from sad to happy or less sad. Thing's can't get much worse and once Fa'lina ends her history lesson we might actually get to see Abel smile. After some time to collect him self I mean. Sure things can go bade for some time but I see a silver lining to this sad hell-ride story.

[Sunblink]

You would be correct. Unfortunately space constraints made me have to edit out a bit of details. Mainly Sel and her son were already starting the process of converging over due to Sel's marraige to a Seme clan member. (At the time both clans were relatively sizable so it wasn't too terrible a switch off) The event simply made Sel opt to hurry the process along.

The process of converting to a different clan is usually difficult and generally results in a loss of power regardless of whether or not your clan was the stronger of the two or if you are moving over to a stronger clan. Most clan members who are opting to switch over aren't really doing it for personal power gain so much for their children future gain.  Though in Sel's case, her timing was really well off since the process starting had masked her and her sons' clan aura from Hizell.  And ultimately did make the transition to losing a clan leader much less painful. (having her husbands clan to console and support her also helped)

Ooh, thanks for the helpful exposition. Although I do have a question: is the trauma from losing one's clan leader solely due to some kind of magical connection or because of psychological reasons? (By psychological, like Post-traumatic stress disorder from losing a close family member) You said that Sel joining Seme Clan helped her; I'm not sure what this means, entirely.

The art of Destania and Aniz is fantastic.

[Tapewolf]

At the risk of turning this into Amber's Question Time, I am kind of curious as to whether Sel and her son's emotional affinities changed too.

[Turnsky]

Well put.  Though Siar's clan was by no means the only one to have this happen.  If Aary's livejournal is canon in that respect, she lost her leader though IIRC it happened before she was born.  Either way, the clan continued.

However, even if the clan Continues, it'll be far less than it was, and potentially may never recover. the integrity of the bloodline has been significantly weakened by the Clan leader, i.e the resident Tri-Wing, not being there.

Now, if a clan leader were to die of natural causes (eventually) or at least survive long enough to, may be able to 'name a successor' so to speak.  

Perhaps the true value and power of a Clan leader, and by extension, its members.. is measured by the strength of that family.
still not enough to take out a well prepared dragon, but eh.

[Tapewolf]

However, even if the clan Continues, it'll be far less than it was, and potentially may never recover. the integrity of the bloodline has been significantly weakened by the Clan leader, i.e the resident Tri-Wing, not being there.

In principle at least, another member of the clan could ascend.  It looks to me like it affects the whole clan, not just their immediate descendants.

Now, if a clan leader were to die of natural causes (eventually) or at least survive long enough to, may be able to 'name a successor' so to speak.

I don't think they actually do die of natural causes.  Amber has said that immortality is one of the benefits of ascending.  However, Aary has mentioned that it's possible for them to transfer their power away if they do die so the whole thing is a little murky there.

[Turnsky]

I don't think they actually do die of natural causes.  Amber has said that immortality is one of the benefits of ascending.  However, Aary has mentioned that it's possible for them to transfer their power away if they do die so the whole thing is a little murky there.

Murky? yeah, let's just keep other sources out of it for now unless stated otherwise, it tends to confuse things a little.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Haha, so clan transfer is possible. Although Amber's comment earlier probably scuppers my thought about Abel accidentally switching to Cyra, although I still think that's a possibility for the future, albeit an unlikely one.


Odd that pills would be used for a form of suicide for a 'Cubi. I would have thought something more magical was going to be used.


Other than that, little surprised me, although I must say, that shot of Aniz in the last post was brilliantly executed, with the motion lines and just a hint of blur.

[Noone]

Odd that pills would be used for a form of suicide for a 'Cubi. I would have thought something more magical was going to be used.

Well, I figure that either:
1: The cubi in question was still young, aka, could be killed by typical poisons.
2: Those pills had some 'magic' in them, though I really have to wonder why anyone would have, or even make magical poison pills.

It also makes me wonder what happens to Aniz, after attacking a professor on school grounds, I can see that as the start of a large amount of animosity between him and Fa'Lina. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he got expelled soon after for doing that, even if he is the last of his clan.

[celelorien]

Aary may have said power transfer was possible (i dunno, i've never read the lj) but I bet it takes some serious time and effort, like the switching clans thing.  Since Siar died kind of suddenly, it's unlikely she would have had time to do the power transfer necessary to make any of the survivors the leader.  I'm thinking since we're not seeing a third set of wings on Aniz (and let's face it, he'd be boastful enough to leave em out), he's just kind of a drone ant without a queen.  More individual consciousness than that, of course, but still.

And I doubt the emotional affinity of Sel and her son changed - if a whole clan was defined by a single trait in total, they wouldn't need Inky to do his torture tests to determine it.  They'd just check the marking.  There's probably a definite tendency within a clan towards a specific emotion, but I doubt minor variations are all that uncommon.

[Tapewolf]

Aary may have said power transfer was possible (i dunno, i've never read the lj) but I bet it takes some serious time and effort, like the switching clans thing.  Since Siar died kind of suddenly, it's unlikely she would have had time to do the power transfer necessary to make any of the survivors the leader.

Yeah - one of the other things in the LJ (sorry, Turnsky) was that since killing Tri-Wings is very, very difficult, their deaths were usually sufficiently messy that such transfers of power were impossible.  It's only logical to assume that this was the case with Siar.

And I doubt the emotional affinity of Sel and her son changed - if a whole clan was defined by a single trait in total, they wouldn't need Inky to do his torture tests to determine it.  They'd just check the marking.

With Dan, they couldn't because his marking wasn't visible.  That may have necessitated a more thorough examination.  Also, 'Cubi seem to have secondary affinities, like Dan's justice affinity which is not apparently part of his clan heritage.

[celelorien]

Well, Fa'lina would still have known that Dan was Cyra clan, because she knew Destania was his mom.  I meant not for Dan though - I was referring to when Abel came in all shell-shocked.  If Fa'lina had to ask Ink what his affinity was, even if Ink didn't have to run all his tests, I'm supposing it meant that it isn't just based on clan.  And, too, Ink wouldn't need to stick around and have all those fun props ready if he didn't have to doublecheck all the new arrivals.

I suppose with Tri-Wings dying, it's a bit more like a Fae thing - they get sick of hanging around so they give up their power to a suitable successor and allow themselves to die.

[Keleth]

My source for everything is the internet  

Edit:

Haha, so clan transfer is possible. Although Amber's comment earlier probably scuppers my thought about Abel accidentally switching to Cyra, although I still think that's a possibility for the future, albeit an unlikely one.


Odd that pills would be used for a form of suicide for a 'Cubi. I would have thought something more magical was going to be used.


Other than that, little surprised me, although I must say, that shot of Aniz in the last post was brilliantly executed, with the motion lines and just a hint of blur.

My my, I'm totally suprised that something so mundane as a sword, claws, or a high velocity rock can kill a cubi.

[Amber Williams]

Ooh, thanks for the helpful exposition. Although I do have a question: is the trauma from losing one's clan leader solely due to some kind of magical connection or because of psychological reasons? (By psychological, like Post-traumatic stress disorder from losing a close family member) You said that Sel joining Seme Clan helped her; I'm not sure what this means, entirely.

Sometimes the hardest part of any trauma is simply having to deal with it alone. The simple fact that Sel had some support was likely a point in her favour.  As for the trauma involved, its complicated and multiple levels since the connection Cubi have to their clan is complicated and multiple levels.

At the risk of turning this into Amber's Question Time, I am kind of curious as to whether Sel and her son's emotional affinities changed too.

Blargh. Hate Amber question time...
But as for the answer, not really. Emotional affinities are usually personal preference to begin with. While there is an overall theme from their clan, it isn't something that gets turned off and on.  The individual who changes over to a new clan doesn't really ever get the same kind of connection to the clan leader, so it isn't like they need to switch their affinities over. 

As for Sel's son, he was around 1 at the time, so even though he was technically Siar (who was the stronger clan when he was born), when he got older, it would be arranged for his clan marking to manifest as Seme's instead.  There just was no place to put "and then 5 years later Sel's son came to an age where he could officially change".  So the number flub is simply crappy storytelling on my part. Apologies.

[Tapewolf]

Blargh. Hate Amber question time...

Yeah, sorry about that...

There just was no place to put "and then 5 years later Sel's son came to an age where he could officially change".

I get that a lot too 

[Turnsky]

Blargh. Hate Amber question time...
But as for the answer, not really. Emotional affinities are usually personal preference to begin with. While there is an overall theme from their clan, it isn't something that gets turned off and on.  The individual who changes over to a new clan doesn't really ever get the same kind of connection to the clan leader, so it isn't like they need to switch their affinities over. 

As for Sel's son, he was around 1 at the time, so even though he was technically Siar (who was the stronger clan when he was born), when he got older, it would be arranged for his clan marking to manifest as Seme's instead.  There just was no place to put "and then 5 years later Sel's son came to an age where he could officially change".  So the number flub is simply crappy storytelling on my part. Apologies.

y'know, overall it's fair to think that nothing is ever really set in stone, what you did in the comic was just answer one or two questions that haven't been asked yet. 

[FSharp]

Assuming Cyra clan had more members at this time, how easy would it be for a dragon to manipulate Aniz, in his current emotional state, into giving vital information on his former lover's clan?

After this last strip, I have a sinking suspicion Aniz will volunteer the information. Destania ultimately stopped Aniz because she loved him and didn't want him to die--and she can be forgiven for not understanding how traumatic the experience would be for Aniz.

But when Destania is introduced in Abel's Story, she tells Abel that Aniz betrayed her and she intends to destroy him fully. Even as violent as panel three in this last strip is, I can't reconcile Destania completely turning on Aniz because he went nuts (leaving him certainly, but not going from lover to full-blown enemy).

What does come to mind is Aniz could enter a fugue state where he believes Destania is directly responsible for the death of his clan. If that's the case, then well ... what better way for him to get revenge on Destania than showing her what it feels like to lose your family?

Another bit of wild conjecture--regarding Fa'Lina's comment in the previous strip--is Hizell may have anticipated all of this and set these events in motion to take down more than one clan. If that's the case, Hizell's still a jerk, but I'll reluctantly concede dragons are fantastic chess players.

[Netrogo]

If that's the case, Hizell's still a jerk, but I'll reluctantly concede dragons are fantastic chess players.

Fantastic chess players are usually jerks so your statement is sound regardless.

I'm kind of curious about the motives behind the Hizell vs Siar fight in the first place myself.

[Cogidubnus]

Makes me wonder how Destania feels towards Aniz now. The latest comic makes me think that it is perhaps not fondly, but it seems like it would have a great deal to do with why she's treating Abel as she is.

If she does resent him...then I suppose it depends on what Aniz wants for Abel, which is somewhat unclear. If Aniz wants Abel to grow strong, it would make sense for Destania to keep him weak. If Aniz wants him weak and easily manipulated, it would make sense for her to make him stronger. Either way, I would at least suspect that Destania would use Abel as a mechanism to get back at him, which I have a hard time seeing as being any good for Mr. Sunshine-and-Spots.

Concerning all these things about Cubi and their clan, though - if Cubi draw as much strength from their clan as has been seemingly implied, and as we later learn Destania has taught him complete self-reliance, it would seem that Abel would be a very weak Cubi indeed. Of course, I could be misinterpreting what's being said about the clan-relationship, or simplifying something that is more complex than I am aware of.

[Turnsky]

If that's the case, Hizell's still a jerk, but I'll reluctantly concede dragons are fantastic chess players.

Fantastic chess players are usually jerks so your statement is sound regardless.

I'm kind of curious about the motives behind the Hizell vs Siar fight in the first place myself.

"who farted?" 

That said, victory goes to those who plan for all, even failure.

[Michael Chandra]

She said it, didn't she? He betrayed her, so she intends to destroy him.

[Netrogo]

That said, victory goes to those who plan for all, even failure.

Oooh oooh, finally an excuse to use this...

[Sunblink]

Sometimes the hardest part of any trauma is simply having to deal with it alone. The simple fact that Sel had some support was likely a point in her favour.  As for the trauma involved, its complicated and multiple levels since the connection Cubi have to their clan is complicated and multiple levels.

Understood; thank you for the prompt answer and for the great comic.

Back to any discussion relating to Aniz and Destania - I'm wondering if Aniz left SAIA because he is still infuriated at Destania, because he realized he did a dick move (I mean seriously) and can't face her again, or because he acknowledges his life is in danger due to Destania's lingering resentment. If Fa'Lina was telling the truth about Aniz's unpredictability/borderline insanity, then I see how it came to be that way.

[LoneHowler]

Aary may have said power transfer was possible (i dunno, i've never read the lj) but I bet it takes some serious time and effort, like the switching clans thing.  Since Siar died kind of suddenly, it's unlikely she would have had time to do the power transfer necessary to make any of the survivors the leader.  I'm thinking since we're not seeing a third set of wings on Aniz (and let's face it, he'd be boastful enough to leave em out), he's just kind of a drone ant without a queen.  More individual consciousness than that, of course, but still

If I remember correctly Hizel the dragon stole Siar's clan affinity at death, had she been preparing to tranfer her power to another clan member which she may have been doing ( failsafe percation ) I wouldn't doubt that the dragon would have intersepted it which may be he case snce he was able to track everyone down

[Amber Williams]

If I remember correctly Hizel the dragon stole Siar's clan affinity at death, had she been preparing to tranfer her power to another clan member which she may have been doing ( failsafe percation ) I wouldn't doubt that the dragon would have intersepted it which may be he case snce he was able to track everyone down

You peeps may want to avoid overspeculating too much on stuff that has simply been mentioned on the forum. Odds are had it been a case of that, I would have...you know...made mention of that in the actual comic for the majority of readers who do not happen to read the forum as well.

Being on the forum, you guys do get some bonus snippets, but all in all I try not to make things so far above removed from the actual comic that you need to read a walkthrough to understand the basic things.

[Jairus]

If I remember correctly Hizel the dragon stole Siar's clan affinity at death, had she been preparing to tranfer her power to another clan member which she may have been doing ( failsafe percation ) I wouldn't doubt that the dragon would have intersepted it which may be he case snce he was able to track everyone down

You peeps may want to avoid overspeculating too much on stuff that has simply been mentioned on the forum. Odds are had it been a case of that, I would have...you know...made mention of that in the actual comic for the majority of readers who do not happen to read the forum as well.

Being on the forum, you guys do get some bonus snippets, but all in all I try not to make things so far above removed from the actual comic that you need to read a walkthrough to understand the basic things.

True: you're no Hideo Kojima, after all.

Though I suppose since soul removal/consumption is a spell or technique that almost anyone can learn and not really a natural ability restricted to a handful of people, Hizell could have consumed Cyra and companies' souls. But would Hizell really gain anything from doing that, or would he just kill them all and skip soul consumption/destruction?

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Haha, so clan transfer is possible. Although Amber's comment earlier probably scuppers my thought about Abel accidentally switching to Cyra, although I still think that's a possibility for the future, albeit an unlikely one.


Odd that pills would be used for a form of suicide for a 'Cubi. I would have thought something more magical was going to be used.


Other than that, little surprised me, although I must say, that shot of Aniz in the last post was brilliantly executed, with the motion lines and just a hint of blur.

My my, I'm totally suprised that something so mundane as a sword, claws, or a high velocity rock can kill a cubi.

I'm not saying that I was surprised that pills can kill a 'cubi, what I'm surprised at is the method used in committing suicide. Various cultures have their own "preferred" ways of offing themselves when they feel the situation is called for, and I would have thought that a 'Cubi, being something of a highly magicked up creature type, would have had some arcane way of sending themselves off. Something like the way Belsambar does it.

And in other news, Morbidity is up 224% today.

[SpottedKitty]

Back to any discussion relating to Aniz and Destania -

Speaking of which, has anyone else realised the last few strips put a new spin on the conversation between Fa'lina and Aniz back at the beginning of part 2? I had a feeling at the time that there was a lot not being said, that was still affecting, if not actually directing, the conversation. Aniz hates Destania for what she did to him, yes, and Destania wants to destroy Aniz for betraying her, but does he still love her? Debatable. And if it is both at once, no wonder Aniz became so unstable.

I think there's just one statement from that scene that we haven't yet had fresh information about. "The wings. The eyes. He looks just like them!" It could still mean almost anything.

Someone mentioned upthread a bit about the size of Cyra's Clan. I don't think we've seen any proof at all that they were decimated in the same way as Siar's Clan. I took Cyra's statement in the main strip to mean "the only remaining members of my comfortably large clan who are directly descended from me". When Fa'lina said (of Siar) "her children were many", I think she's describing a different situation.

And I think we've seen a bit more of where Destania's clan marking isn't.   

[Keleth]

Haha, so clan transfer is possible. Although Amber's comment earlier probably scuppers my thought about Abel accidentally switching to Cyra, although I still think that's a possibility for the future, albeit an unlikely one.


Odd that pills would be used for a form of suicide for a 'Cubi. I would have thought something more magical was going to be used.


Other than that, little surprised me, although I must say, that shot of Aniz in the last post was brilliantly executed, with the motion lines and just a hint of blur.

My my, I'm totally suprised that something so mundane as a sword, claws, or a high velocity rock can kill a cubi.


I'm not saying that I was surprised that pills can kill a 'cubi, what I'm surprised at is the method used in committing suicide. Various cultures have their own "preferred" ways of offing themselves when they feel the situation is called for, and I would have thought that a 'Cubi, being something of a highly magicked up creature type, would have had some arcane way of sending themselves off. Something like the way Belsambar does it.

And in other news, Morbidity is up 224% today.

I totally didn't say all of that

[OminousShadow]

I knew I heard of Seme's Clan before. Members of a clan that were volunteering to room with Abel came from Seme's.

[Baal Hadad]

Did anyone else notice that the archive link says "fifty-five" when it should say "fifty-six"?

Still there, and I haven't seen anyone talking about it in this thread other than myself, so I'll take it as a no.... 

In the archive for this chapter, the last two links both say "Fifty-five," though the second one says "new."