03/22/09 [DMFA #985] - New levels of disgust

[Daymond42]

I'm thinking mass violence to Stan Bush's "The Touch" would be amusing...

[N-Cat]

Crud. I hate this comic.  No offense to Amber, but I agree with Tapewolf 100%.  Evil Dan was a nice touch.  I thought awesome cubi Dan could defeat DP without help.  It honestly looked like he was going to, to me at least.  I was hoping Dan could beat Dark Pegasus before Kria got there.  I know that Dark Pegasus was less hurt, but it seemed like Dan was starting to do just as well.

By the way:
What would you think if he sang out of tune,
Would you stand up and walk out on him?
Lend him your ears and he'll sing you a song
And he'll try not to sing out of key.

Oh, Dan get's by with a little help from his friends
Mm, Dan get's high with a little help from his friends
Mm, gonna try with a little help from his friends

[Mao]

I'm going to say this much:  From the little bits we do know about Cubi and Demons your average cubi (power level wise) is no match for a demon.  HOWEVER the most powerful cubi far outstrips the power of the most powerful demon.  Think on that a bit.

[Pagan]

... Uh... Ummm... Demons are like warriors and Cubi are like wizards?

[techmaster-glitch]

I'm going to say this much:  From the little bits we do know about Cubi and Demons your average cubi (power level wise) is no match for a demon.  HOWEVER the most powerful cubi far outstrips the power of the most powerful demon.  Think on that a bit.

However Dan was (supposed) to be a competant adventurer who has already beaten DP several times before. I guess the lack of a sword does have something to do with this, Dan wouldn't have gotten into a grapple if he had one. However, this does rasie the question of why he didn't have a sword with him in the first place, before he even went over there, as Cog pointed out. Either way...it's beginning to feel like Dan's adventuring competance may be an informed ability.

[Jairus]

... Uh... Ummm... Demons are like warriors and Cubi are like wizards?

Sounds about right.

I'm going to say this much:  From the little bits we do know about Cubi and Demons your average cubi (power level wise) is no match for a demon.  HOWEVER the most powerful cubi far outstrips the power of the most powerful demon.  Think on that a bit.

However Dan was (supposed) to be a competant adventurer who has already beaten DP several times before. I guess the lack of a sword does have something to do with this, Dan wouldn't have gotten into a grapple if he had one. However, this does rasie the question of why he didn't have a sword with him in the first place, before he even went over there, as Cog pointed out. Either way...it's beginning to feel like Dan's adventuring competance may be an informed ability.

Or we are not getting the whole picture. Or we are seeing the difference in story-telling skills between Amber however many years ago that was and today. Or Dark Pegasus has been holding back against Dan in the past (it sure didn't take much for him to beat Dan the first time they met). Or a half-dozen other possible explanations besides an informed ability. Though the fact that his own friends thought he was just making it up might mean something...

Though, as others point out, the last time Dan and DP met it didn't go so well for Dan either. He DIED last time, or came very close to it.

[JackTheCubiWolf]

I should have said something about the sword thing awhile but he might not have had a sword because he didn't have his robe to hide one in.

[Michael Chandra]

Ah, so Kria is to blame!

But seriously, I blame his fit over Regina. It's what caused him to act all emotional berserkerish, unlike the previous time.

[Sunblink]

I think it makes sense that Dan lost. Is it disappointing? I don't believe so. I've been thoroughly enjoying this arc and I thought there would be something keeping this from being a straightforward smackdown. I feel that things would have been a lot more complicated and anticlimactic if Dan had won the fight - he would have killed a relative of Lorenda's and Kria's right in front of them, assuming they wouldn't interfere. While Dan was using his wing tentacles impressively when chasing Regina, he's still inexperienced, and he's up against Dark Pegasus while consumed with anger and improperly defending himself.

Not to mention, Dark Pegasus nearly killed Dan during their last confrontation.

If anything, I'm rather glad that Dan nearly sawed Dark Pegasus's arm off and sliced up his wings really well.

I've learned to trust Amber's storytelling skills. There were some aspects of Abel's Story I was very unsatisfied with, but then she completely destroyed any uncertainties I had. I think if people are disappointed, there will be something to alleviate that or compensate, even if it comes much later.

TL;DR version: Wait until the arc's over before you guys whine.

[Mao]

However Dan was (supposed) to be a competent adventurer who has already beaten DP several times before.  I guess the lack of a sword does have something to do with this, Dan wouldn't have gotten into a grapple if he had one. However, this does rasie the question of why he didn't have a sword with him in the first place, before he even went over there, as Cog pointed out. Either way...it's beginning to feel like Dan's adventuring competance may be an informed ability.

Indeed he has and I can't begin to explain how he managed it last time, though the fact that Dan had a sword and DP was unarmed might have been a contributing factor.  The counter to this is that DP *does* have quite a good level of magical aptitude.  The only thing I can think of to negate that is that we don't know how much of his magic/focus/whatever was tied up in the ritual to resurrect the dark god.  I don't imagine that whatever it takes that it's cheap.  This is pure speculation though.

As to why Dan didn't have a sword.. I don't know.  I suppose he wasn't expecting DP to be raised yet and figured he could do it without as such.  Or maybe he, as is possible with Aliph in the past, merely made a mistake.  I'll be the first to say that in combat things like strength, weapons, knowledge and natural abilities do make a big difference.. but all of them can be undone with luck.  The draw of the cards.

Or we are not getting the whole picture. Or we are seeing the difference in story-telling skills between Amber however many years ago that was and today. Or Dark Pegasus has been holding back against Dan in the past (it sure didn't take much for him to beat Dan the first time they met). Or a half-dozen other possible explanations besides an informed ability. Though the fact that his own friends thought he was just making it up might mean something...

Though, as others point out, the last time Dan and DP met it didn't go so well for Dan either. He DIED last time, or came very close to it.

I'm more inclined to the idea of not having the whole picture, which is why I'm in truth a little loathe to even post in the first place.

[Tapewolf]

Just to be absolutely clear about my comment, Amber tends to plot the arcs out ahead of schedule from what I've heard in the past.  So if Dan loses, that's because it was meant to be, as it were.  Like Keaton, I trust her design decisions and while I feel slightly crestfallen  and sorry for Dan that he didn't come out on top, that's just the way the cookie crumbles.  Maybe he'll do better next time.

[Pagan]

I just wonder why you are crestfallen? Why be saddened? Dan will come out fine, someway.
And heroes tend to get uppity what with their morals and abilities, some times a hero needs to be shown what's what and keep the rest in line.

[Tapewolf]

I just wonder why you are crestfallen? Why be saddened?

Because Amber's managed to portray Dan as a sufficiently real person that I can empathise with him, I guess.

[Mao]

Another way to look at it, is that it will be all the sweeter and more worthwhile when he does finally win.  Each loss leads up to a more triumphant victory.

I mean really, for the hero, what good is it if he doesn't have everything apparently stacked up against him?  You wouldn't want Dan to be a Gary Stu now would you?

[Tapewolf]

You wouldn't want Dan to be a Gary Stu now would you?

It doesn't have to be binary.

[Achronycal]

I just feel like mentioning Dan x Lorenda is my crack pipe dream OTP. 

IT MAY NEVER BE SO but I'm still going to appreciate how Dan is worried that Aliph will kill Lorenda and wants her out of danger. I think the scariest thing Dan's got to worry about is not a hole in his chest, but facing the idea that DP is actually capable of being a family man (even if pieces of his soul have been destroyed through multiple resurrections).

Sadly, Dan'll probably have to learn it in reverse concerning his mother.

[Cogidubnus]

Odd. I actually suspect this may be one of those jokes that turns out to be not quite so much of a joke.

Lorenda's ideal boyfriend, from back in the ye olde Perfect Date arc, isn't so far removed a description from Dan, if you think about it...

[Tapewolf]

Lorenda's ideal boyfriend, from back in the ye olde Perfect Date arc, isn't so far removed a description from Dan, if you think about it...

Do you mind elaborating on that?  I'm not seeing it.  She wanted someone beefy, which Dan isn't IMHO.  Dan is independent, but confident?  I don't think he's been that since his headwings appeared (which is one of the reasons Evil Dan was such a surprise).  And Dan seems so far to have been more of a flirt than someone looking to settle down.


As for Dan being a Marty Stu or whatever, the more I think about it, the less likely that is.  Even if he had succeeded in burning DP and neutralising Regina somehow, I'd be surprised if, like Janus (?) said, he didn't go through some kind of "OMG, I'm a monster" funk immediately afterwards.

[Buhamet]

I don't think Dan would be as effected by becoming a cubi as most people think......... after all, his mother is one, and so is Abel, and he gets on kinda ok with Abel.

[Tapewolf]

I don't think Dan would be as effected by becoming a cubi as most people think......... after all, his mother is one, and so is Abel, and he gets on kinda ok with Abel.

"Sooner or later Abel will try to teach me to act like a 'Cubi!  The whole Academy setup... this 'tutor' thing... it has to be a scheme!  Something to try to turn me into a soul-stealing monster..."
--Dan, page 651

Granted, what he did when confronted with Regina may have been enough to shake that out of his system, but I guess we'll see.  See also page 392.

[Buhamet]

You're probably right when it comes down to what Dan think as terms of becoming a cubi, but that doesn't mean he could learn cubi abilities while not remaining resolute that he was only learning them to further his abilities as an adventurer

after all, imagine how scared a main baddie would become after finding out that one of the adventuring party was actually a heavily trained adventuring Incubus

[Cogidubnus]

Lorenda's ideal boyfriend, from back in the ye olde Perfect Date arc, isn't so far removed a description from Dan, if you think about it...

Do you mind elaborating on that?  I'm not seeing it.  She wanted someone beefy, which Dan isn't IMHO.  Dan is independent, but confident?  I don't think he's been that since his headwings appeared (which is one of the reasons Evil Dan was such a surprise).  And Dan seems so far to have been more of a flirt than someone looking to settle down.

Independent - Dan's retired, or so I seem to recall. I would argue that he does seem to be pretty confident with himself - certainly confident enough to have fun with said headwings and continue to mess about and be generally Dan, despite having his world rocked quite a bit with his discovery of his Cubi-ness. Confident doesn't mean he has to act like John Wayne at all times, methinks. As far as Dan wanting a relationship, I'm not sure, but he certainly doesn't feel he -needs- one.

Beefy can be interpreted many ways. Dan has muscles, though, sure. Kria certainly seems to hold some admiration for his physique.

Of course, this is pure speculation, and I don't know or care one way or the other. Just something that seemed as though it might be ironic if it -did- happen.

[Arroyo Milori]

You're probably right when it comes down to what Dan think as terms of becoming a cubi, but that doesn't mean he could learn cubi abilities while not remaining resolute that he was only learning them to further his abilities as an adventurer

after all, imagine how scared a main baddie would become after finding out that one of the adventuring party was actually a heavily trained adventuring Incubus

Yeah, but Dan doesn't really seem be interested in being a cubi, unless it's to abuse certain powers for ...shenanigans.

Usually too much power would lead to corruption, thus Dan believes that if he was able to grasp that kind of power and harness it, he would become the monster he was feared to be.

but that's just a theory(or a fact if it's already known.) : L

[Tapewolf]

You're probably right when it comes down to what Dan think as terms of becoming a cubi, but that doesn't mean he could learn cubi abilities while not remaining resolute that he was only learning them to further his abilities as an adventurer

Oh, indeed.  I hope that's how it works out for him.  Abel doesn't seem to have gone power-mad or anything so I imagine it's possible.

[N-Cat]

Ummmm...Dan's not retired.  Or if he was, he's not very retired now.  He's going to be living forever now, so he's continuing to adventure.  He can't really survive the next 10,000 years on what he could earn in some 5 years.  Even if he doesn't eat, drink (which he doesn't), use electricity, he's still going to need clothes and a place to live. Unless I'm wrong and 'Cubi are impervious to disease, hypothermia, or freezing to death, in which case he can live forever off of that small amount of money.  Or maybe if he marries Matilda or Lorenda or someone who can earn enough money for themselves and a little for Dan.  Or... maybe I've just invalidated my own point... Erm... Nevermind.

[Michael Chandra]

Ummmm...Dan's not retired.  Or if he was, he's not very retired now.  He's going to be living forever now, so he's continuing to adventure.  He can't really survive the next 10,000 years on what he could earn in some 5 years.  Even if he doesn't eat, drink (which he doesn't), use electricity, he's still going to need clothes and a place to live. Unless I'm wrong and 'Cubi are impervious to disease, hypothermia, or freezing to death, in which case he can live forever off of that small amount of money.  Or maybe if he marries Matilda or Lorenda or someone who can earn enough money for themselves and a little for Dan.  Or... maybe I've just invalidated my own point... Erm... Nevermind.

And did you ever consider a career change? He's only a retired adventurer, nobody ever said he's never going to do any other jobs.

[Tapewolf]

Ummmm...Dan's not retired.  Or if he was, he's not very retired now.  He's going to be living forever now, so he's continuing to adventure.

The nominal lifespan is 3'000 years, though there seem to be ways around it.

[Indy]

That reminds me... will Dan even be allowed to go adventuring and killing other creatures now that he has his clan mark? Every time he kills a creature after this, the slaying will be associated with Cyra Clan. Judging by past instances, this is much more serious than when a being slays a creature. We might get to see other members of Cyra Clan if they have to come and give Dan a crash course in Creature politics.

[inuhanyo]

Ummmm...Dan's not retired.  Or if he was, he's not very retired now.  He's going to be living forever now, so he's continuing to adventure.

The nominal lifespan is 3'000 years, though there seem to be ways around it.

Of, course, the way for a Cubi to extend their lifespan byond the 3,000 year limit is exactly what give Cubi a bad rep (i.e. soul stealing)

Dan's retired from adventuring, but he's been drawn back in, um, three times that I can think of off the top of my head:

• The "Danial Ti'fona: warrior for hire" arc
• The time when Azlan recruited Dan and Merlitz, which ended up introducing Arryanna
• This trip to try and stop DP resurrection

Being retired from adventuring just means you don't do it full time any more.  Dan's dad Edward got sucked back into adventuring on occasion too, we just don't know any of the particulars.  I imagine they got payed for #1, not for #2,  #3 is still wait and see how this plays out, though it's looking unlikely.

That reminds me... will Dan even be allowed to go adventuring and killing other creatures now that he has his clan mark? Every time he kills a creature after this, the slaying will be associated with Cyra Clan. Judging by past instances, this is much more serious than when a being slays a creature. We might get to see other members of Cyra Clan if they have to come and give Dan a crash course in Creature politics.

Good point, though Abel is going to have to explain to Dan the importance of keeping his clan mark concealed for other reasons.

Though demons seem to provoke fights with other creatures fairly often

While most of the creature races get along well with eachother, arguments and battles over a rogue demon intruding on another creatures area and messing it up isn't uncommon.

[Tapewolf]

Of, course, the way for a Cubi to extend their lifespan byond the 3,000 year limit is exactly what give Cubi a bad rep (i.e. soul stealing)

That's one way, and it's the quickest and easiest way.  But AFAIK it's not the only way.

Apparently it's even possible to ascend to tri-wing status without taking souls, though only about two ascensions were achieved in this way (See 'Comic time and conservation of energy' IIRC)