02/26/09 [Abel 2 #47] - Revenge, Pain and Terror

[Tapewolf]

so, anyone else left with the feeling that D is putting up a bit of a front? showing off for the new student if you will...

Depends what you mean.  As a sort of advertisement, e.g. "Come with me and I'll teach you how to do all kinds of evil things!", then yes, she might be.

If you meant that she's lying or exaggerating about what she teaches just to freak Abel out, I'd say it was a definite 'no'.

[GabrielsThoughts]

i sense a love hate relationship here... Destania must have been part way through her morph in the first pannel, unless it's Fa'lina, It's hard to tell when you cut their heads off like that. 

[Mao]

i sense a love hat relationship here

I love hat.

[Madmann135]

He he, sorry could not resist

I'm surprised that he wasn't looking at the twins.  I mean they are of an excellent size and form.
Best comic mod in my opinion.

[Lisky]

so, anyone else left with the feeling that D is putting up a bit of a front? showing off for the new student if you will...

Depends what you mean.  As a sort of advertisement, e.g. "Come with me and I'll teach you how to do all kinds of evil things!", then yes, she might be.

If you meant that she's lying or exaggerating about what she teaches just to freak Abel out, I'd say it was a definite 'no'.

I'm talking the first one... and yes, advertising would have been a far more appropriate wording than putting up a front...

soo, back on topic, is it just me, or does it seem like she's advertising her classes to Abel?

[Terrion]

i sense a love hat relationship here

I love hat.

I'm more of a cap man myself...  er... TOPIC!

I expect that we will soon begin seeing a mantage of Abel's early days in SAIA before we get to the next big event in his life (whatever that may be). It's going to be a long while before he can see his mother again, if he ever does manage that feat in her remaining lifetime. At the moment he's somthing of an orphan with a living family: estranged from his madman of a father and effectively cut off from his mother for fear of her life. May will eventually die of old age, if nothing else, long before Abel's tale catches up to the present day of Dan and Mab, so he has a limitted time to try to come to terms with what he wants to do on that front, and then decide how he's going to accomplish it once he has.

And lest we forget, he has recently attended the funeral of one of his childhood friends and had another friend and two acquaintances die before his eyes as well, right before Aniz' big plan began to spontaneously combust into a spectacular family wrecking screw-up. The boy is going to have issues.

Oh. Wait... we already know that from his present day persona, don't we?  

[Malakin]

I'm talking the first one... and yes, advertising would have been a far more appropriate wording than putting up a front...

soo, back on topic, is it just me, or does it seem like she's advertising her classes to Abel?

She is definatly doing just that, Abel is the prime candidate for such classes!

Oh, and an interesting thought that is, however, not totaly well thought through... But what ever:

If Destania is the Head of Pain and Terror department, would her department not also teach defences against such things?
If you had two seperate departments doing such a thing then you would have a war on your hands
Maybe Destania is the Head of that department because she is totaly neutral towards such things?

[Tapewolf]

She is definatly doing just that, Able is the prime candidate for such classes!

Because telling someone - a peaceful librarian, no less - who's still coming to terms with what they are, that they're a soul-devouring monster is really going to help them settle in...

If Destania is the Head of Pain and Terror department, would her department not also teach defences against such things?
If you had two seperate departments doing such a thing then you would have a war on your hands

The inter-departmental war is an interesting idea, and I suspect it's more likely than your latter suggestion.

Maybe Destania is the Head of that department because she is totaly neutral towards such things?

I think you'll find it's the opposite - pain (at least) is her clan affinity, like Dan's.  I'm not so sure about terror.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

And lest we forget, he has recently attended the funeral of one of his childhood friends and had another friend and two acquaintances die before his eyes as well, right before Aniz' big plan began to spontaneously combust into a spectacular family wrecking screw-up. The boy is going to have issues.

That boy needs therapy.

*grin*

[Malakin]

Ok the whole 'is neutral towards such things' thing might be a bit off but i felt like making an excuse for her not to be totaly evil.

Look at Dan, he shares the affinity, however he is never going to be the head of the pain and terror department
Just because she has that affinity does not mean she has to be totaly evil. She cant be a goody two shoes though and hold that job, so being neutral to the whole thing is the only other option :F

However she is very interested in Abel, afterall she has been setting up Abel to feel useless in the face of his dangers, Abel likes to think that he could have atleast been some help. So she is now introducing herself to be the answer to his problems.

[Pagan]

 Yes, but she's wanted to use children and infants in her torture classes. When she was teaching at the Academy, she probably was sadistically causing pain in others, just for the fun of it. Definitely not a good person and most likely evil.
She now wants to end the Dragon race completely, that's genocide. Even if she has mellowed out a bit, genocide is still pretty evil.
But hey, who says you can't like an evil person?

[Sunblink]

For some reason, I'm instantly disliking Destania, sex appeal aside. Then again, she's planning a genocide and she's wanted to kill children and infants in her torture class, so of course I hate her.

I get the feeling she's manipulating Abel, and Fa'Lina is aware of the fact she confronted him in the middle of the night (hence her apprehension and the comment "How uncoincidental for you to be here", aside from distaste of Destania's philosophy). That could be why Abel views Destania with such disdain, although she has taught him how to survive - which was possibly going to be used against Aniz.

That boy needs therapy.

*grin*

"You're crazy in the coconut!"

[Tapewolf]

Yes, but she's wanted to use children and infants in her torture classes. When she was teaching at the Academy, she probably was sadistically causing pain in others, just for the fun of it. Definitely not a good person and most likely evil.

More to the point, Amber said she was liable to eat the souls of the children afterwards (see my 'definite no' link above).

She now wants to end the Dragon race completely, that's genocide. Even if she has mellowed out a bit, genocide is still pretty evil.

It's not nice, but I honestly don't think it's in her power to end the dragon race completely.  The implication from strip 841 is that like the Fae, they're spread throughout the multiverse.  That being the case, the best she can hope for is to kick them all out of Furrae and somehow protect their universe from future intrusion, similar to the gravity tensor shield in James P Hogan's Giants of Ganymede series.  Which isn't the same as genocide.

That could be why Abel views Destania with such disdain, although she has taught him how to survive - which was possibly going to be used against Aniz.

I think that's it, personally.  She's trying to groom him to carry out some kind of vendetta.

[Ted Schiller]

Ok the whole 'is neutral towards such things' thing might be a bit off but i felt like making an excuse for her not to be totaly evil.
(snip)

Perhaps a bit.

With regards,
Ted

[Malakin]

Well, this whole thing has taught me not to make suggestions while procrastinating and putting off work, cause I just say somthing silly and fail to do the backup to stop that from happening :F

[Ted Schiller]

The entire first panel is distracting... I can only see Fa'Lina's breasts.  Somehow I am not displeased with this.

Quick, let us ask everyone. "Without looking again at the comic, what is the colour of Destania's eyes?"

Eyes?   

With regards,
Ted

[Tapewolf]

Well, this whole thing has taught me not to make suggestions while procrastinating and putting off work

You think I'm not?  

[Cogidubnus]

Perhaps I'm being obvious, but something is fishy.

It doesn't seem to fit that Dee can be as mustache-twirlingly evil as Fi makes her out to be, and as she appears here, and then be the nice being-loving momma that Dan grew up with (at least, it seems like she's nice - I seem to recall a flashback scene in which she's comforting a much smaller Dan who misses his father, in a way that seems to indicate genuine care). It's very hard to be both sincerely loving and sincerely evil. One or the other must be an act.

[Tapewolf]

It doesn't seem to fit that Dee can be as mustache-twirlingly evil as Fi makes her out to be, and as she appears here, and then be the nice being-loving momma that Dan grew up with (at least, it seems like she's nice - I seem to recall a flashback scene in which she's comforting a much smaller Dan who misses his father, in a way that seems to indicate genuine care). It's very hard to be both sincerely loving and sincerely evil. One or the other must be an act.

I'd like to think that when she had a child of her own it gave her a new perspective on what life was all about, that it was something to be treasured and not eaten.
I certainly hope that the motherhood thing isn't an act - otherwise Dan will be practically suicidal.

[Cogidubnus]

I'd like to think that when she had a child of her own it gave her a new perspective on what life was all about, that it was something to be treasured and not eaten.
I certainly hope that the motherhood thing isn't an act - otherwise Dan will be practically suicidal.

That is one way to look at it, yeah - but then, I think about Dee's behavior with Biggs, which isn't too entirely far removed from the way she's acting now. I suppose it's hard to draw any conclusions without knowing her motivations a bit better, though.

[Jairus]

Why can't she be both sincerely evil and sincerely loving? She loves her son, her husband, and her daughter. She has also demonstrated and been described as evil on numerous occasions. Yes, having a son might have mellowed her somewhat (she and Alexsi - her stepdaughter - certainly got along in defiance of narrative causality), but take her away from her family (or take her family away from her) and she reverts to her old ways. Or she just put them aside while she was a mom. Who knows (aside from Amber)? Yeah, maybe we should try and learn a little more about psycho evil mom Destania.

Of course, it could just be that even Destania won't torture her own child. I mean, even evil has standards.

[Mao]

I get the feeling she's manipulating Abel, and Fa'Lina is aware of the fact she confronted him in the middle of the night (hence her apprehension and the comment "How uncoincidental for you to be here", aside from distaste of Destania's philosophy). That could be why Abel views Destania with such disdain, although she has taught him how to survive - which was possibly going to be used against Aniz.

Or the fact that she feeds on Pain.  A feeling that Abel is full of right now.. making him a great big buffet for Dee.

[Cogidubnus]

Why can't she be both sincerely evil and sincerely loving? She loves her son, her husband, and her daughter. She has also demonstrated and been described as evil on numerous occasions. Yes, having a son might have mellowed her somewhat (she and Alexsi - her stepdaughter - certainly got along in defiance of narrative causality), but take her away from her family (or take her family away from her) and she reverts to her old ways. Or she just put them aside while she was a mom. Who knows (aside from Amber)? Yeah, maybe we should try and learn a little more about psycho evil mom Destania.

Of course, it could just be that even Destania won't torture her own child. I mean, even evil has standards.

The very act of loving - a son, a daughter, a husband or wife or even the love one holds towards a good friend - forces you to have empathy. Empathy is a strange thing - it is much harder, I daresay impossible, to hurt someone you love in cold blood, deliberately and uselessly - and when you start to empathize with one person, it becomes that much harder to separate yourself from other people, too. Seeing someone as another person makes it very difficult to enact even regular violence against them, let alone cold, mindless cruelty. Destania doesn't strike me as a hot-blooded brute that lashes out in anger - rather, a cold and deliberate sort of cruelty that is an end unto itself, which is the most terrible kind of cruelty. It is for this reason that I say she cannot be both.

[Tapewolf]

That is one way to look at it, yeah - but then, I think about Dee's behavior with Biggs, which isn't too entirely far removed from the way she's acting now. I suppose it's hard to draw any conclusions without knowing her motivations a bit better, though.

It's true that she's basically used Dan as a pawn.  Though that might mean that she fully believes Dan will be able to pull it off.  I think she has a valid reason for not meeting Dan face-to-face, though... read the strips around 712.  It might be that she's trying to protect him, but that's sheer speculation.

Why can't she be both sincerely evil and sincerely loving? She loves her son, her husband, and her daughter. She has also demonstrated and been described as evil on numerous occasions.

Yeah, maybe we should try and learn a little more about psycho evil mom Destania.

I forget where, but I remember reading that there is or was a major conflict between the 'Cubi and the Dragons.
I am wondering whether the Dragon Project is a desperate means to end this conflict.

[Pagan]

 Well, I think it's implied (or it might be directly stated) that the Dragons once nearly killed off the Cubi race. And Dest feels that the best means of preserving the Cubi race is through the eradication or the complete banishment of the Dragon race from Furrae. A bit extreme, but perhaps what is necessary, considering what ponces Dragons are.

[Jairus]

Well, I think it's implied (or it might be directly stated) that the Dragons once nearly killed off the Cubi race. And Dest feels that the best means of preserving the Cubi race is through the eradication or the complete banishment of the Dragon race from Furrae. A bit extreme, but perhaps what is necessary, considering what ponces Dragons are.

To be fair, we've seen... what... six dragons? One of whom is a main character and was adopted by a Cubi, another who was slightly forgetful and Dan owes ten bucks to, one who accidentally wiped out the last of the vampires (and to be fair, did apologize for landing on them), one who crushed a car (which was a bit mean of them), one who stepped on Dan in a non-canon arc because Dan pissed him off, and one who - offscreen - married a college student and had kids with them. I'm just playing reverse devil's advocate here, but aside from the aforementioned war (which I'm willing to bet the Cubi did okay in since they're not gone, and probably gave back what was given to them in battle) and the group that kidnapped Edward... dragons on the whole might be jerks, but dragons as individuals seem no better or worse than anyone else. And let's be fair, when you're either the first or second most powerful magic wielders in the universe, you are entitled to be a little haughty about it.

And yes, I am a fan of Dragons. And I will admit that an entity that powerful leads to... interesting ideas should they go bad...

EDIT: Also, a thought that just struck: out of the dozens or hundreds of Cubi that we've seen, only three (Destania, Aaryanna, and Aniz) strike me as evil. Or at least really bad. Well, okay, I'll add Ink to that list. So, four evil/really bad Cubi out of all that we've seen. Most Cubi seem relatively decent, if a little... weird.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Agreed on all counts. And we finally see the Destania described by Abel. I have to wonder, though, at her first comment, about Fa'lina and revenge. There's some intriguing back-story there, that I hope we get to see eventually: all we have at the moment are hints and guesses.

I'm a little surprised nobody has taken this up already. My best guess would be drawn from these two comics

one

and
two

Now, I'm going to admit this is speculation, pretty heavy speculation. We know that Fa'Lina's clan is effectively gone, and that Aniz bringing it up was a dumb thing to say. Aside from the obvious rudeness inherent in the statement, I'd just like to raise the suggestion that Aniz, (or more likely his clan. I seem to recall that Fa'Lina started SAIA after her clan was wiped out in the regular strip 508. Does anyone know how long SAIA has been around? If Aniz is only 460 at the time of Abel's story, he would have been too young to be involved unless the massacre, and therefore SAIA, was recent. Furthermore, his apology of "I'm sorry my clan took that as a sign of weakness could be taken to mean that he wasn't there) was involved in the wiping out of Fa'Lina's clan. With clan loyalties seeming to be a strong factor in 'Cubi society, it might be as simple as "He's a whatever clan, it's understandable that you'd want to rip him in half Fa'Lina" (Note that I am assuming that the base text is from Destania to Fa'Lina, and the subtext is directed to Abel.)

But I get the impression there's more than that. I'm still very, very eager to know what is so special about his eye coloring and his wing shape? Color? something? Abel has something very important going on around him, and I'm sure Aniz is caught right in the middle of it.

[Psy-Kosh]

Something I've been wondering, which this discussion kinda reminded me of: What're the links between cubi affinities and their personalities?

Let me clarify: Can, in principle a cubi exist such that their natural affinities are just pain/suffering/torment, yet their personality and or morals are completely the opposite? ie, that they would simply never do those things, even though that's what they could most easily feed on?

Or would their affinities be tied to their personalities, such that the former would shift to better fit the latter?

Or would the latter be at least in part determined by the former, which is fixed and unchangeable?

Or both (strongly) influence each other, or or or...?

[Dard]

Destania is hot in this picture!

But not as hot as she could be.
She's missing the glasses!
I want her glasses back!

[Tapewolf]

Let me clarify: Can, in principle a cubi exist such that their natural affinities are just pain/suffering/torment, yet their personality and or morals are completely the opposite? ie, that they would simply never do those things, even though that's what they could most easily feed on?

I suspect it primarily depends on their upbringing.

Dan doesn't seem to go around hurting people for kicks.  He does get a kick out of justice, though.  Abel might do the confusion thing (that is currently unclear) but he seems to have gone out of his way to avoid misery in others, e.g. Jyrras, and also Dan.  Note also that he eats food a lot.

Granted, we haven't seen either of them for an extended period of time - Abel we've only known for about a month (his time) and Dan has only been 'Cubi for maybe two months.

It has been suggested that 'Cubi may over their lives unconsciously adopt behaviour patterns that induce particular emotions in others.