[Comic] 29/09/08 (Project Future Pg. 32 remixed)

[Pagan]

Not having read future history, this came as quite a shock. And now I realize why I had never heard of Josh, he was only a sacrficial lamb.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

A very, very, very sacrificial lamb.

With a very messy sacrifice.

[Zedd]

Holy Christ, That is alot more gruesome than I remember from the story! Well I really do don't wanna be in Josh's boots now

[Tapewolf]

Holy Christ, That is alot more gruesome than I remember from the story! Well I really do don't wanna be in Josh's boots now

I calibrated it against Devin's death from Abel's Story.  Personally, I think we may have gone slightly overboard on this one.  Either way, it's not something we're going to make a habit of.  In fact, with the possible exception of when Keaton murders someone (which is years away at our current update schedule) this is probably the single most violent scene in the story.

Fun fact:  When I pointed out to Ren that the Belfry list gave us a 'V' for graphic violence over the court scene, his reply was something like "I'll show them graphic violence when the story gets to page [26]!"

**EDIT**

Oh yeah, I forgot the obligatory Star Wars quote:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

[Zedd]

Holy Christ, That is alot more gruesome than I remember from the story! Well I really do don't wanna be in Josh's boots now

I calibrated it against Devin's death from Abel's Story.  Personally, I think we may have gone slightly overboard on this one.  Either way, it's not something we're going to make a habit of.  In fact, with the possible exception of when Keaton murders someone (which is years away at our current update schedule) this is probably the single most violent scene in the story.

Fun fact:  When I pointed out to Ren that the Belfry list gave us a 'V' for graphic violence over the court scene, his reply was something like "I'll show them graphic violence when the story gets to page [26]!"

**EDIT**

Oh yeah, I forgot the obligatory Star Wars quote:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

All I have to do is..Good good *rubs hands evilly*

[Sofox]

Wow, that was a bit of a shock.
Didn't expect that happening.

[Tapewolf]

Wow, that was a bit of a shock.
Didn't expect that happening.

Actually, it's a bit of a shock to me, even though I wrote it and coloured it in.  Anyway, the next strip will be a bit more upbeat (which considering this one, isn't saying a lot).

[Amber Williams]

So far, the biggest issue I find with the comic is the pacing.  In many places the timing and layout is really jarring and doesn't seem to flow all that smoothly...which makes me have to re-read to try to figure out what is happening where.  It also doesnt help that it seems at time really forced and rushed in terms of story progression.  The latest page as an example. It was only one page ago that an attack was even brought up and then suddenly *bam* its out of the blue violence. There was no real build up so the whole page just feels like its four pages crammed into one.

I think your comic is off to a decent enough start, but in my opinion you may want to ease up on the reigns in regards to moving the plot along.  I mean, you are only on page 26 and already are ending chapter three.  And even then, I cant quite remember what made up chapter one/two/three in that they required to be separate chapters in the first place.

Sorry if I am sounding like a grade A buttmunch in this. I am terrible at critique and I am not trying to sound like I dislike what you are doing. I think you guys are doing well overall...and truth be told my stance may just be an opinion that is uneeded.

Either way, good job making it past 25 strips.  You have already surpassed 70% of webcomics that try to make it on the internet.

[Tapewolf]

So far, the biggest issue I find with the comic is the pacing.  In many places the timing and layout is really jarring and doesn't seem to flow all that smoothly...which makes me have to re-read to try to figure out what is happening where.  It also doesnt help that it seems at time really forced and rushed in terms of story progression.  The latest page as an example. It was only one page ago that an attack was even brought up and then suddenly *bam* its out of the blue violence. There was no real build up so the whole page just feels like its four pages crammed into one.

Thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind.  There are several reasons why that is likely to be the case here.

Firstly, the original script was a bit like that anyway.  The story idea was something I came up with around Nov 2006, and at that point it consisted entirely of Joshua being found dying and rebuilt, and then a month or so later being killed to drive what happens next.  When it was written up into the serial, chapter 2 literally had to be invented in order to provide spacing between the two events.  In some ways I regret what I did there, but it has since become necessary as part of the later storyline.

Secondly, I'm a little impatient to get to chapter 6 when things really kick off.  I don't know if DMFA is planned out to quite the degree that this is - given that PF is adapted from a written series - but there is a certain sinking feeling I get when I look at the script and think "f__k, that's not going to happen until this time next year!"
As a result, when I scripted the comic, a few chunks were left out to help speed it along, and that probably doesn't help with the slightly lumpy progression.  There is likely to be a certain amount of that to come, but I'll try to watch out for it and tweak the script as necessary.

There's also the fact that I've never done this before.  I suspect I am falling somewhat into the trap you mentioned of making each weekly strip have some kind of impact to it, which helps ease the week-long gap between them but makes it a little strange to read all at once.

And some of it is deliberate.  I love to kick off a chapter with something that makes the reader go "WTF?".  Chapters 3 and 5 are among my favourites for doing that, but it does have that "Did I miss something?" feel to it.

I think your comic is off to a decent enough start, but in my opinion you may want to ease up on the reigns in regards to moving the plot along.  I mean, you are only on page 26 and already are ending chapter three.  And even then, I cant quite remember what made up chapter one/two/three in that they required to be separate chapters in the first place.

Each chapter of the strip corresponds to a chapter of the original story.  It looks a little strange in comic form, because it has ended up being with each chapter having around 8-10 strips (*), but I've started doing that so I may as well carry on.  I'm tempted to group the chapters into parts or something, encompassing each story arc, though further into it the divisions between story arcs starts to become a bit more hazy.

(*) Some chapters, like chapter 5, had a lot of visual description and background in their original text, which has collapsed them right down.  Once I removed the in-depth technical description of how laserdisks work and why Oskar can't call Kris on the watch while he's in the power room, it ended up just 5 pages long 

Sorry if I am sounding like a grade A buttmunch in this. I am terrible at critique and I am not trying to sound like I dislike what you are doing. I think you guys are doing well overall...and truth be told my stance may just be an opinion that is uneeded.

That's quite alright.  As I say, it's the first time I've done this so there are probably many things which I'll look back on and go "hmm..." over.

Either way, good job making it past 25 strips.  You have already surpassed 70% of webcomics that try to make it on the internet.

Heh, thanks.  I owe a lot to Ren.  That he might disappear or have to quit doing it is one of my big worries about this project.

[Amber Williams]

Fair enough...I just wanted to give a heads up on my concerns.

Though be sure to be extra cautious when dealing with the desire to get to the "good parts" cause like a good road trip it isnt always the destination so much as the journey.  Chapter six isnt going to be nearly as good as you will hope if you spend the first five chapters gunning it.

After all, the original "script" idea I had for Abel's Story had me thinking I would have the whole thing told and done in less than 50 pages.  Can you imagine what the pacing and story would have been like with Abels Story had I tried to keep to that and cram all that down?

I honestly didnt realize a month had supposedly passed since the one character was found and rebuilt. The way he acted, his behavior around everyone, and his suprise at so many things led me to think he had only been on this base for a couple days since even after a month he seems to be acting just as wayward and confused as his first day.  But then again this may have been intentional.

But really...for me characters are always of severe importance to a good comic. I want to like or know a bit about characters to relate to them...and right now all your characters in a way feel distant outside of generic motions and actions.  To me, a strong cast of characters is what makes or breaks a comic. And right now...I confess I have a hard time actually even remembering half of their names.

Also, its good to leave impacts, but its also something that one should try to keep from going crazy with.  I have seen more than my share of webcomics that make it a point to always try to have some sort of "OMG!" cliffhanger at the end of the chapter or the week...and frankly after a bit of time it starts to get annoying. At least for me.  In a way it sort of cheapens the impact since its like "oh hey. Another chapter end. What wacky twist are they going to throw down this time."

Oof. Like previous post, I apologize if this is sounding like I am coming down hard on ya.  It is my hope that my comments are more like college professor tough luv and less like annoying jerkhat tearing you down.  Cause really I want you to improve and do well.

[Tapewolf]

Though be sure to be extra cautious when dealing with the desire to get to the "good parts" cause like a good road trip it isnt always the destination so much as the journey.  Chapter six isnt going to be nearly as good as you will hope if you spend the first five chapters gunning it.

Very true.  On the flipside, in several cases the chapters literally do have a lot of padding as I was struggling at little when the series first began.  So, in some ways this is a "Director's Cut" version - which may or may not be an improvement over the original 

One of the other issues I forgot to mention was that I can be very verbose with the dialogue.  The original story, and in many cases the script - after editing - have what would be walls of text, especially from Kris.  What I have been doing so far is to trim it down, which does remove some of the character from it.  I might rethink this strategy, though it will push things further into the future.

After all, the original "script" idea I had for Abel's Story had me thinking I would have the whole thing told and done in less than 50 pages.  Can you imagine what the pacing and story would have been like with Abels Story had I tried to keep to that and cram all that down?

I do remember that the original schedule was supposed to be 6 months or something.  I have often wondered what it would have been like had that happened.

I honestly didnt realize a month had supposedly passed since the one character was found and rebuilt. The way he acted, his behavior around everyone, and his suprise at so many things led me to think he had only been on this base for a couple days since even after a month he seems to be acting just as wayward and confused as his first day.  But then again this may have been intentional.

It became a bit more vague in the comic version.  The way it was scripted for the comic did flow from one event to the next rather too quickly.  What I did in the end was tack the "Weeks later..." caption to the start of chapter 3.  Maybe I should have left that out.  Indeed, looking back, perhaps we should have had an earlier attack that came to nothing.  Still, it's a bit late for that 

But really...for me characters are always of severe importance to a good comic. I want to like or know a bit about characters to relate to them...and right now all your characters in a way feel distant outside of generic motions and actions.  To me, a strong cast of characters is what makes or breaks a comic. And right now...I confess I have a hard time actually even remembering half of their names.

I'll come clean - character design is something I am not too great at.  Some of the characters who will eventually appear have their origins in minor DMFA characters, even.  Having said that, all the characters we have seen so far (apart from the panthers and the aircraft) are being very cautious about their backgrounds.  Joshua was sent to investigate Kris, after all... and what Kris is actually researching in his base is somewhat suspect.  'Kris' might not even be his real name, come to that.  Much of this will eventually come out as the story progresses.

There was also a problem with the written series that some of the characters came from an earlier story, and it was written with the assumption that that story had been read first.  This is certainly something that PF will try to correct, since it's supposed to be able to stand more-or-less on its own.

At some point I'm going to put up cast pages.

Also, its good to leave impacts, but its also something that one should try to keep from going crazy with.  I have seen more than my share of webcomics that make it a point to always try to have some sort of "OMG!" cliffhanger at the end of the chapter or the week...and frankly after a bit of time it starts to get annoying. At least for me.  In a way it sort of cheapens the impact since its like "oh hey. Another chapter end. What wacky twist are they going to throw down this time."

If it's any consolation, chapter 4 doesn't end with a cliffhanger 

Oof. Like previous post, I apologize if this is sounding like I am coming down hard on ya.  It is my hope that my comments are more like college professor tough luv and less like annoying jerkhat tearing you down.  Cause really I want you to improve and do well.

No, it's very helpful.  I don't have a lot in the way of proofreading so opinions like this will help Ren and I decide how to approach things as they progress.

[Ren Gaulen]

All I have to say about the last page is: "HEADSHOT." Also, I really feel sorry for Joshua.

[GabrielsThoughts]

wait...exactly how long are these chapters, we skipped from two to the conclusion of three in record time for a wbcomic.

[Tapewolf]

wait...exactly how long are these chapters, we skipped from two to the conclusion of three in record time for a wbcomic.

The chapters are as long as they are in the source material, but it seems to be running around 8-12 pages each.  I took the Gormenghast approach of having lots of small chapters as it makes it easier to read in short bursts.  This didn't really lend itself to a webcomic, though.  I'm wondering whether we should merge chapters 5 and 6 together...

[GabrielsThoughts]

Perhaps, since you are technically using a visual medium, you could refer to the individual chapters as scenes. People would be less likey to worry about the rushed pace. Since a written scene is only about a  minute more or less real time. and it would give the story a more cinematic feel. 

[Tapewolf]

Perhaps, since you are technically using a visual medium, you could refer to the individual chapters as scenes. People would be less likey to worry about the rushed pace. Since a written scene is only about a  minute more or less real time. and it would give the story a more cinematic feel. 

I'm not sure 'scene' is quite the right word, but that would be pretty trivial to change.
Other suggestions for what to use instead of 'chapter' are welcome...

[Dannysaysnoo]

Perhaps, since you are technically using a visual medium, you could refer to the individual chapters as scenes. People would be less likey to worry about the rushed pace. Since a written scene is only about a  minute more or less real time. and it would give the story a more cinematic feel. 

I'm not sure 'scene' is quite the right word, but that would be pretty trivial to change.
Other suggestions for what to use instead of 'chapter' are welcome...

Do something crazy, like 'Track' or 'Level'. Ooh, i know! 'Dimension'!

[Tapewolf]

Do something crazy, like 'Track' or 'Level'. Ooh, i know! 'Dimension'!

'Part' occurred to me, but that is normally used to discriminate groups of chapters.  What I have is more like DVD chapters.

I was tempted to call them 'chunks' or 'lumps' 

[Dannysaysnoo]

I was tempted to call them 'chunks' or 'lumps' 

do you really want a chunky webcomic?

[Pagan]

How about a "reel"?

[Tapewolf]

How about a "reel"?

Tempting...

[GabrielsThoughts]

I dunno' Reel makes it sound more like a Grindhouse film or Ultra-P0rn. Considering the comic already  features furries, and Incubus, which have a known negative reputations with the outside world. You wouldn't want to turn away readers by making them think of sex or attract the wrong kind of reader for the same reason.

[LionHeart]

How about "episodes"? Makes it sound more like a series (or serial, which might be more appropriate)...

[Tapewolf]

How about "episodes"? Makes it sound more like a series (or serial, which might be more appropriate)...

It sounded a bit strange for a comic, but yes.  I think it's probably the best suggestion so far.  I'll probably use that on the next page if a better idea doesn't come along.

Incidentally, I'm currently working on the cast pages.  These are still in development and liable to change around, but if anyone wants to kick the tyres, the url is here:

http://www.project-future.org/cast.htm

**EDIT**
Suggestions for what to call 'Friends and Family' would be handy.  Ideally I'd like it to encompass family, friends and other relationships like Nilson owing Kirian, and Mac being an employee of Kris.

Keaton suggested 'relationship' but when you say that Nilson has a relationship with his warp-aci, it gives a very, very wrong idea.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Connections ?

Facebook ?

[Jairus]

Allegiances or Allies, perhaps?

[Dannysaysnoo]

Connections.

[Tapewolf]

Facebook ?

'Connections' is good, but I'm tempted to use 'facebook' out of sheer facetiousness.

'Allies'... well, "Greetings, Allies of Dan!" springs immediately to mind.  It also gives a sort of them-against-the-rest-of-the-world feel to it which doesn't seem quite right.

FWIW, I also came up with 'associates', but I'm still undecided.

[Ren Gaulen]

Accomplices

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Victims. Targets. Lunch. Troublemakers. Milkmen. Regulars. Schoolmates. Chum.


... I could go on, but I probably shouldn't.