Beowulf

[Angel]

My English class just finished reading Beowulf. I can honestly say that it's the first book this year that everyone has admitted they liked.

I love books, but a lot of times, if we have to read a book for school, I'm the only one who loves it. (Examples: Heart of Darkness, The Sun Also Rises) Other times, about half the class loves it and the rest don't (Macbeth, Romeo and Juliet, The Odyssey).

Because Beowulf is a really long story and parts of it are confusing and wordy, I was afraid not everyone would like it, myself included; I had tried to read it once and it was next to impossible. But once we got a feel for the language and got into the story, all of us loved it. For those of you who haven't read it yet, read it, quick, before the movie comes out!

Which brings me to my question: the upcoming movie.

What my class can't figure out is this: Why the hell is Angelina Jolie playing Grendel's mother? She's supposed to be a hideous monster who looks somewhat human, rather like her son. So why have an actress who everyone thinks of as hot play her? Why not Glenn Close, or Paris Hilton?

And another thing: WHY IN THE BLEEDING HELL does she have a thing for Beowulf? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he the brutal murderer of her only son? What possible reason could she have to like him?! I don't doubt that Angelina is a good actress and it'll probably be a good movie. But why would you put in such an impossible love story? There was no romantic subplot in Beowulf; what would be so wrong with keeping it the way it is?

[Ryudo Lee]

Oh please, this is Hollywood we're talking about.  Preserving an original story is never interesting.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

What my class can't figure out is this: Why the hell is Angelina Jolie playing Grendel's mother? She's supposed to be a hideous monster who looks somewhat human, rather like her son. So why have an actress who everyone thinks of as hot play her? Why not Glenn Close, or Paris Hilton?

... challenge for the make-up dept?

[Alondro]

I nominate Rosie O'Donnel for Grendel's mom!  >:}

Which would have to make Michael Moore her spawn...

It works!  I'm brilliant!   

[Fuyudenki]

... challenge for the make-up dept?

They could...

except they're not using make-up.

What I want to know is why they're literally 3D-scanning real actors to make a 100% CGI film?  At that point, why bother with CGI at all?  The make-up would be cheaper than the render time.

Bleh.  The movie looks like a giant CGI-orgy to me.  Those aren't so bad when Square and Pixar do 'em, but then, Square and Pixar take the approach of "It's a cartoon in 3D" instead of "Look, 3D  Watch and be amazed!"

[Angel]

What I want to know is why they're literally 3D-scanning real actors to make a 100% CGI film?  At that point, why bother with CGI at all?  The make-up would be cheaper than the render time.

Bleh.  The movie looks like a giant CGI-orgy to me.  Those aren't so bad when Square and Pixar do 'em, but then, Square and Pixar take the approach of "It's a cartoon in 3D" instead of "Look, 3D  Watch and be amazed!"

But 300 did the same thing, right? Also, to a degree, Lord of the Rings. And those were pretty awesome.

And Alondro, using Rosie might be a little too scary. And Michael Moore isn't exactly hot stuff at acting.

Hmm... how about O.J. Simpson as Grendel? But then we'd still need a mom...

[Fuyudenki]

can't speak for 300, since I haven't seen it, but LOTR, while it was largely a special-effects fest, was at least attempting to use the CGI to help tell the story.

Some of the fights in ROTK did run a little overboard, though.

[DarkAudit]

I nominate Rosie O'Donnel for Grendel's mom!  >:}

Which would have to make Michael Moore her spawn...

It works!  I'm brilliant!   

Please, I just ate. 

[superluser]

First things first

I don't doubt that Angelina is a good actress

Apparently. we are not watching the same films.

My English class just finished reading Beowulf. I can honestly say that it's the first book this year that everyone has admitted they liked.

Ooh!  Which translation?

I love books, but a lot of times, if we have to read a book for school, I'm the only one who loves it. (Examples: Heart of Darkness, The Sun Also Rises) Other times, about half the class loves it and the rest don't (Macbeth, Romeo and Juliet, The Odyssey).

Have you read James Joyce?  Ulysses might be a bit much for you (I'm not sure where you are in terms of maturity, and it was for a time declared obscene), but Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is awesome, and based on the books you've liked, you'd probably like that one.  Joyce can be a challenge, but it's very rewarding.

Why the hell is Angelina Jolie playing Grendel's mother? She's supposed to be a hideous monster who looks somewhat human

...while Grendel's mother is a child of Cain.

Sorry, but I don't consider Jolie much in the lips department...er, looks department.

And another thing: WHY IN THE BLEEDING HELL does she have a thing for Beowulf?

Yeah.  I don't claim to be a Beowulf scholar, but that runs pretty much counter to the entire idea that the author had.  There's no evidence for it in the story, there's no space for that to exist in backstory, it goes against the general idioms of epic poetry and the specific English and Christian (and I'm guessing Saxon and pagan) idioms for epic poetry...I could go on.

[Brunhidden]

I agree with the choice for Grendel's mother, its like casting brad pitt as Quasimodo

I nominate Rosie O'Donnel for Grendel's mom!  >:}

was thinking joan rivers myself

[Dannysaysnoo]

it looks pretty good, the cgi effects i mean, i couldn't decide wherer or not it was entirely cg or not.

a GOOD film coming out is Death at a Funeral. A brilliant black comedy about the shenanigans going down at a funeral.

[RJ]

Didn't they make a video game of it too?

[Saist]

Didn't they make a video game of it too?

sadly yes.

[Omega]

And another thing: WHY IN THE BLEEDING HELL does she have a thing for Beowulf? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he the brutal murderer of her only son? What possible reason could she have to like him?! I don't doubt that Angelina is a good actress and it'll probably be a good movie. But why would you put in such an impossible love story? There was no romantic subplot in Beowulf; what would be so wrong with keeping it the way it is?

No romance and endless killing? I'm sold!

and to answer all of your question of "why?" to make money!!

[Brunhidden]

from what little i heard of the game it sounds okay, primarily that you recruit warriors to follow you around to do your heavy lifting and rowing and whatnot so you can concentrate your studly efforts to being heroic, killing things, and probably getting laid due to be heroic and killing things

i severely wonder how accurate the movie is going to be, holywood will of course try to glaze over the weirder aspects of norseman style legends, like the bit about the talking birds and the dragons heart comes to mind.....wait, was that Beowulf or Sigurd? damn, haven't slept in two days and im starting to really loose it. on a related note i hope that if Beowulf does well they can try the ring saga sometime, although that'll probably take forever as the opera that is the 'abridged' version of the story is 21 hours long

[Angel]

No romance and endless killing? I'm sold!

Hey, it works for snuff films.

Besides, romance wasn't important in Anglo-Saxon storytelling. Ever notice how little romance was referenced in 300? well, it's not because they were all gay. It's because the strongest bond, as they saw it in the past, was the bond between master and servant. Between soldiers and their leader. The strongest emotion wasn't love; it was loyalty.  (Take THAT, you Freudian bloodhounds!)

[Fuyudenki]

Love, loyalty... there's a difference?

I love those I'm loyal to.  I'm loyal to those I love.

As a result, I'm very careful about who I will pledge loyalty to.(I think the list currently contains two entries...)

[Omega]

Love, loyalty... there's a difference?

I love those I'm loyal to.  I'm loyal to those I love.

As a result, I'm very careful about who I will pledge loyalty to.(I think the list currently contains two entries...)

Oh you twisted, little mad man...


Edit: Loyalty is based on respect. Respect is based on fear, not love. (Well, not all respect, but most of it)
Fear of losing something. Fear of people no liking you. Loyalty might have something to do with love, but love has nothing to do with loyalty.


...Then again, I know nothing of love.

[Angel]

Love, loyalty... there's a difference?

I love those I'm loyal to.  I'm loyal to those I love.

As a result, I'm very careful about who I will pledge loyalty to.(I think the list currently contains two entries...)

Well, by love I meant romantic love. I know that love and loyalty go hand in hand, but the kind of love the Anglo-Saxons believed was strongest was different from romantic love.

Incidentally, are romantic love, passion, and lust all the same thing? I know they're all similar, but I think romantic love is just regular love with a little passion and lust in it.

[Fuyudenki]

I fail to see any difference between romantic love and "loyalty" love, aside from the fact that romantic love is usually between two members of opposite sexes, and often results in rugrats.

Lust is just a cleaner way to say "The human sex drive when curbed by neither common sense, nor morals."  It's also one of the seven deadly sins.

Side note: I think we all know what the seven Vices are, but does anyone know what all seven Virtues are?  I haven't got 'em memorized yet.

Vices:
Lust
Wrath
Greed(avarice)
Gluttony
Envy
Sloth
Pride(hubris)
(note that the names listed in parentheses are, I think, a bit more accurate.  A little pride isn't such a bad thing.  Hubris is an abomination on the human condition.)

Virtues:
Humility
Prudence
five others?

[techmaster-glitch]

I know charity's one, and there's one for the opposite of wrath, but I can't remember what it's called...
In fact, I think the Virtues are all exact opposites of the Sins.

[Angel]

Temperance and chastity are in there too. I can't think of any others.

[Fuyudenki]

In fact, I think the Virtues are all exact opposites of the Sins.

You'd be wrong, actually.  That's what I thought, as well, but it turns out, there are something like three whowhich could be the opposites of Greed and Envy.  I made a list somewhere...

I intended to include the Virtues and Vices as characters in my comic at some point, so I actually did sit down and apply a hierarchy and rivalry to them.  It was harder than you might think.(Justice is not the most powerful Virtue, Humility is, because Humility is the counter to Hubris, which is the original sin.)

Also interesting to note that the seven Vices are not necessarily evil in and of themselves.  They're all perfectly natural portions of every healthy human being: being angry, being hungry, having sexual desires, wanting to better your place in life, wanting rest, and recognizing your own self-worth are definitely good for you.  It's when taken to excess, or used the wrong way, when they consume and become Vices, or Deadly Sins.


back on topic,

Edit: Loyalty is based on respect. Respect is based on fear, not love. (Well, not all respect, but most of it)
Fear of losing something. Fear of people no liking you. Loyalty might have something to do with love, but love has nothing to do with loyalty.

They may support you while they fear you, but can you really call it loyalty if they turn their backs, or worse yet, take revenge, the moment you hold no power over them?  Love produces loyalty stronger than fear ever could.

[Omega]

They may support you while they fear you, but can you really call it loyalty if they turn their backs, or worse yet, take revenge, the moment you hold no power over them?  Love produces loyalty stronger than fear ever could.

Oh, really now? I see you have not served in the military. The chain of command is build on respect and fear. You follow your squad leader, no matter what kind of "Apple pie" he might be. You work your way to gain his/her respect. There's no love in that.
If the person who you love breaks your trust, will you stick by to him/her and forgive the wrong doings? Take a look at the divorce counts and tell me how loyal lovers are to each other. Love is too selfish and too abstract


Funny how everybody know the seven deadly sins, but hardly anyone know about
The Nine Satanic Sins by LaVeyan. Don't worry. It's from the Wikipedia.

Stupidity, Pretentiousness, Solipsism, Self-deceit, Herd Conformity, Lack of perspective, Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies , Counterproductive Pride , Lack of Aesthetics. Now I am somewhat of a  "god fearing" and a member of Church, but these sins (and lots of other crap that this cult says) makes sense (mainly, because LaVeyan took most of his ideasa from few philosophers But then again, so did the ealry Church).  One could view them as a modern version of the deadly sins.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The military chain of command is a specific situation.

They tend to go for loyalty based on fear because it's more predictable - yes, it'll knife you in the back as soon as possible, but other than that, it works well. And when it works as it's -supposed- to, you respect the leader because he's -earned- your respect, not simply because he's in charge.

Sadly, there's as many morons in charge in the military as elsewhere, which means you end up with the situation you describe. Oh, well. One of the reasons I wouldn't go for the military myself...

[Fuyudenki]

and even in the Military, the stories of true loyalty -- soldiers who help their downed comrades, or who revere their superiors and their trainers even after those revered men are dead, are stories of love, not fear.  The drill sergeant may have put the recruits through Hell, but at the end of it all, the recruits all know they're better, stronger men for it, and they respect the sergeant for that, not because he's going to make their lives miserable if they don't.

[Omega]

I still have a different idea of what love is. The word itself is so abstract that it should be banned for good.

[Fuyudenki]

Love is an action, not a feeling.

To love someone is to care about them so much that you value their happiness and well-being above your own, so much that their being happy, healthy, and safe is enough to make you happy, and that their pain and sadness make it impossible for you to be happy.  To love someone means that you don't care if you live or die, as long as they are happy, comfortable, and safe.

It can really mess you up.

[Omega]

Love is an emotion that leads into action.

Love is  selfish, because you only care other's welfare that you wouldn't feel unhappy ja guilty. Nothing happens if there's no reason to it. A spontanieous actions are driven by some kind of motive and/or need, always. You don't care what the other one feels. All you want is that you get to love and that you are loved. That is all that human psyche needs in order to remain whole, or that's what some experts say. No one is that crazy that he/she is willing to love alone, not for long anyway. It's a chemical reaction, no matter how much you try to paint it with pretty colors.

[Fuyudenki]

you're confusing love and lust again.

Lust is an emotion.

Love is a deliberate action.

Society confuses them all the time, and they usually get it wrong.

If what you feel is an emotion, do not be mistaken.  It is not love, it is lust.  Deal with it.