2007-03-01 Medical healer is not redundant!

[Regal]

No, I mean that Abel is a 'cuckoo'

Dan might agree with you on that one. 

[Tapewolf]

He's put off leaving SAIA for decades or more, and put all his effort in being able to go it alone.  If he had a family to return to, I'm not sure he'd have done what he did.

I'm not sure if that's true.  Abel was just completing SAIA, right?  He's about the age that Aaryanna was when she finished.  I'm not sure if he could leave, once he enrolled full time.

No, he's been stalling.  I don't know how long for, but according to Fa'Lina, he's studying two really useless courses like grass-growing and tennis, which he can't really be bothered to attend anyway.  Also remember Destania's reaction when she found he'd actually left SAIA in 712?  She actually fluffed her headwings out, so it came as a bit of a shock.

Plus, as I say, his parents might have been killed as part of the intra-cubi wars.

We know that Abel's clan is largely defunct, and does not have a leader.  They might have been one of the clans that refused to join Fa'Lina at SAIA, and may have been actually targeted for elimination.  What's more, his clan might have been the one that caused the wars.  It's unlikely that just one clan was responsible for the wars, but this explanation is a lot more fun.

It's highly likely that Abel's clan was fragmented to that point by the wars, but whether the clan member is May, Cid or the possible disguised father, we cannot say...

[Alondro]

*Charline sways in, dressed in full hippie regalia*  Like, I totally took the grass-growing class too.  It was awesome and made me touch the universal oneness of the universe, man. 

*Charles bangs bongo's*  Crazy-eyed reaver maneater whisper Sunday mother over-achiever... 

*Charline whoahs!*  Cosmic, man!  Totally cosmic!   

[Tapewolf]

*Charline sways in, dressed in full hippie regalia*  Like, I totally took the grass-growing class too.  It was awesome and made me touch the universal oneness of the universe, man.

Making random drug references was supposed to be my trademark, dammit!

(Wonders what terrible things he could do to Charline while she's zonked out)

[Sunblink]

Don't know about the rest of you, or about the timing, but either way I think Amber nailed it pretty well here. Abel's story was becoming a bit too emo and in need of comic relief.

Well, I agree with you about the emo thing, but I'm not sure if this is the right time for comic relief. Then again, kudos to Hennya for being so calm during the chaos. I really hope nothing bad happens to her.

Poor Abel, too, being limited to only two letters in his dialogue But being in complete and total shock combined with severe trauma tends to skewer your sense of vocabulary. I wonder how long it will take him before he gets something coherent out, and/or drops the pendant.

~Keaton the Black Jackal

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

(Wonders what terrible things he could do to Charline while she's zonked out)

Well... you could whisper sweet nothings in her ear, and -really- destabilise her. I mean, she'd expect it and just deal with it if you induced what you or I might call nightmares, but if you induced something soft and saccharine... :-)

[Zedd]

Well just dont take avantage of her as well..Sides..She might come back and bite ya

[Ted Schiller]

*Charline sways in, dressed in full hippie regalia*  Like, I totally took the grass-growing class too.  It was awesome and made me touch the universal oneness of the universe, man.

Making random drug references was supposed to be my trademark, dammit!

(Wonders what terrible things he could do to Charline while she's zonked out)

::Hands Tapewolf a permanent marker.::

With regards,
Ted

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Well just dont take avantage of her as well..Sides..She might come back and bite ya

Ooo. Do you think she'd promise?

::Hands Tapewolf a permanent marker.::

*rotfl*

[KarlOmega1]

or it could be that there's 'cubi in abel's bloodline somewheres. i don't know about 'cubi genetics and whatnot, but surely some things can be passed down after one or two generations after lying dormant for so long..

just a thought, anywho.

Hmmm...I think it's possible that the cubi genes can become dormant for a few generations, therefore causing a descendant of an Incubus/Succubus to be a Being.

[Aridas]

I thought there weren't cubi genes, and that whether things happened or not was teh magik.

[Prof B Hunnydew]

*Charline sways in, dressed in full hippie regalia*  Like, I totally took the grass-growing class too.  It was awesome and made me touch the universal oneness of the universe, man.

Making random drug references was supposed to be my trademark, dammit!

(Wonders what terrible things he could do to Charline while she's zonked out)

::Hands Tapewolf a permanent marker.::

With regards,
Ted

Wait Like she is totally zone out on Grass right....

***Hauls in 10 Tons of fresh Prime Streak***

"Hey, Charline Dear, I got some fresh Buffalo streak Have you Got the Munchies?"

**goes to insure that she was fresh hydroponic super weed if she feel the need to smoke more**

I have a full fresh truck of live cattle standing by, if you want Charline..Yummy..

Thanks Super... for using my reference...I vote for May or Hennya taking the broch away from Abel really soon.

PBH

[Kenji]

Oh May... just order the grab-bag.

[GabrielsThoughts]

why isn't there one all purpose healler that they can contact?

[Boog]

Alright, I want to let the forums take credit for this gag, but she was probably going to do it anyway. Great timing with the funny, Amber!
I wonder what a soul based healer's called, anyway? I mean, they're actually able to interact with souls on a magical level here, so it wouldn't just be a priest. Unless there's magic that the church knows that they're not about to teach non-members.

[superluser]

No, he's been stalling.  I don't know how long for, but according to Fa'Lina, he's studying two really useless courses like grass-growing and tennis, which he can't really be bothered to attend anyway.  Also remember Destania's reaction when she found he'd actually left SAIA in 712?  She actually fluffed her headwings out, so it came as a bit of a shock.

Abel may be taking useless courses, but that doesn't mean that he's stalling.  You know how it is when you get to the end of your senior year, and you're three credits and one PE requirement shy of graduating.  You take the easiest courses available and don't show up for any classes except the finals.

I actually had a course like that once, except that I forgot to write down when the tests were, so I had to show up for every class.  Slept through every class.  Probably snored.  Still got a B.

Destania's expression is harder to explain.  Maybe she figured that he wouldn't leave SAIA without a degree, and knew when his last year was going to be.

It's highly likely that Abel's clan was fragmented to that point by the wars, but whether the clan member is May, Cid or the possible disguised father, we cannot say...

I'm not sure if you got my point, which was that Abel's clan might have been targeted for extermination by SAIA.  Kind of like the Inquisition.  If they find someone from Abel's clan, they tell him to renounce his heretical ways and enroll in the academy or they kill him.

[Sienna Maiu - M T]

First thing to pop into mind:
There you go forum, there-in lies your answer.
(as to the redundancy debate)

Hennya seems intelligent enough, neh?

[Madd the Sane]

This was because we were discussing it in the forums, wasn't it, Amber 
And no, I didn't read any of the forum posts yet
And it seems like orbs are the common form of communication

[Madd the Sane]

why isn't there one all purpose healler that they can contact?

Because anything general is either lacking in all aspects or takes forever to come out (be trained).  Sad but ture.  That's why there isn't a computer that can run programs from all the major OSes (Mac OS Classic, Mac OS X, Windows, Linux/XWindows).  sad but true 

[Tapewolf]

Abel may be taking useless courses, but that doesn't mean that he's stalling.  You know how it is when you get to the end of your senior year, and you're three credits and one PE requirement shy of graduating.  You take the easiest courses available and don't show up for any classes except the finals.

I've never attended an institution that worked quite like that, but I see where you're going.  I'm not sure SAIA works quite like that, given that its essential purpose is to train 'cubi for survival, unlike our rather bureaucratic system where you're in it to get a piece of paper.

Destania's expression is harder to explain.  Maybe she figured that he wouldn't leave SAIA without a degree, and knew when his last year was going to be.

Course length varies considerably, depending on the subjects.  There are areas which can take 800 years, IIRC and the average length is 300. 

I'm not sure if you got my point, which was that Abel's clan might have been targeted for extermination by SAIA.  Kind of like the Inquisition.  If they find someone from Abel's clan, they tell him to renounce his heretical ways and enroll in the academy or they kill him.

Wow.  That's quite an idea, although I'm not sure I buy it as-is.  Fa'Lina seems to be bent on preserving the race against purges and bloodlettings, with SAIA being shut away like some kind of emergency measure to protect condors from extinction.  Her wanting to cleanse the race of Abel's fragmented clan seems rather out-of-character.  Also, Abel would have gone totally schiz if he discovered that Fa'Lina killed his family.

That said, most of our key data about Fa'Lina's goals comes from Abel himself - if your theory is true, Fa'Lina would have brainwashed him to some degree.

[Tezkat]

why isn't there one all purpose healler that they can contact?

Because anything general is either lacking in all aspects or takes forever to come out (be trained).  Sad but ture.  That's why there isn't a computer that can run programs from all the major OSes (Mac OS Classic, Mac OS X, Windows, Linux/XWindows).  sad but true 

I'm not so sure that's such a good analogy.

You would think that, in a world like Furrae, you'd have general health practitioners that could deal with most common complaints and be able to refer patients to specialists as the need arose--not unlike the way things work around here. Sure, there are a lot more specialties to consider (biological, magical, psychological, soul-based, and so on), but you also have to remember that the practitioners of many of these healing arts will be creatures anyway due to the magic requirement, and thus have lots of time to train. MDs in our world usually spend about 8 years in university followed by several more years of internship/residency/fellowship before they can hang out a shingle and set up their own practices. That's a long time for a human, but how many of those could you fit into a few centuries of creature college?

Destania's expression is harder to explain.  Maybe she figured that he wouldn't leave SAIA without a degree, and knew when his last year was going to be.

Course length varies considerably, depending on the subjects.  There are areas which can take 800 years, IIRC and the average length is 300.

According to Amber...

Average timespans in SAIA are close to 300-400 years...but its about as stable a time-frame as the regular college kid staying for a 4 year program. Odds are most will stay a bit longer for extra things.

That's total time in SAIA, not per course. I remember her stating that individual courses lasted anywhere from years to decades, though I can't locate the reference at the moment.

Abel may be taking useless courses, but that doesn't mean that he's stalling.  You know how it is when you get to the end of your senior year, and you're three credits and one PE requirement shy of graduating.  You take the easiest courses available and don't show up for any classes except the finals.

I've never attended an institution that worked quite like that, but I see where you're going.  I'm not sure SAIA works quite like that, given that its essential purpose is to train 'cubi for survival, unlike our rather bureaucratic system where you're in it to get a piece of paper.

Well... there is canon evidence of at least some sort of graduation requirements.

It does bring up an interesting question though as to why people bother to graduate from SAIA, and for that matter... why it even grants degrees in the first place. Cubi seem to spend more time concealing their identities than not, and I don't see such credentials having much impact on their daily lives. (WANTED: Incubus. Must have SAIA degree, two centuries of adventurer-slaying experience, and a cute butt. Fax resume to 555-1326.  ) The curriculum appears to be so varied (from fireballs to grass-growing...) that any piece of paper you received at the end would be fairly meaningless beyond demonstrating your ability to put up with a horde of Cubi for a few centuries. It's almost like one of those prestigious liberal arts colleges that rich kids attend before going to work for daddy's company. Surely, most of the important "survival" skills could be covered in considerably less time, were that truly the goal of SAIA...

[Tapewolf]

Destania's expression is harder to explain.  Maybe she figured that he wouldn't leave SAIA without a degree, and knew when his last year was going to be.

Course length varies considerably, depending on the subjects.  There are areas which can take 800 years, IIRC and the average length is 300.

That's total time in SAIA, not per course. I remember her stating that individual courses lasted anywhere from years to decades, though I can't locate the reference at the moment.

Quite right - I meant 'course' as in the entire degree, rather than a single module - which is not the best way to put it.

I've never attended an institution that worked quite like that, but I see where you're going.  I'm not sure SAIA works quite like that, given that its essential purpose is to train 'cubi for survival, unlike our rather bureaucratic system where you're in it to get a piece of paper.

Well... there is canon evidence of at least some sort of graduation requirements.
It does bring up an interesting question though as to why people bother to graduate from SAIA, and for that matter... why it even grants degrees in the first place.

Good call.  Might be more of a memento, or the simple fact that spending 300 years and having nothing visible to show for it would be a downer

(My view on this is skewed - I came to loathe my university, and recently reused the picture frame for my degree to house a print of Zina's Furrae Chronicles picture...)

[superluser]

I've never attended an institution that worked quite like that, but I see where you're going.  I'm not sure SAIA works quite like that, given that its essential purpose is to train 'cubi for survival, unlike our rather bureaucratic system where you're in it to get a piece of paper.

It's very common in the universities here in the States.  It's certainly true that SAIA would be less inclined to do that.

That said, most of our key data about Fa'Lina's goals comes from Abel himself - if your theory is true, Fa'Lina would have brainwashed him to some degree.

Yeah.  For that to work, you'd have to forcibly brainwash all the `cubi, and I'm not sure that they'd go for it.

On the other hand, if you took a spell that everybody wanted and modified it just slightly, you might be able to get people to voluntarily brainwash themselves.

...and the first thing that happened to Jyrras when he got his mind shield was to fall in love with Abel.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

On the other hand, if you took a spell that everybody wanted and modified it just slightly, you might be able to get people to voluntarily brainwash themselves.

...and the first thing that happened to Jyrras when he got his mind shield was to fall in love with Abel.

You're -evil-.


.. will you be my fwend? *flutters eyelashes*

[Tapewolf]

That said, most of our key data about Fa'Lina's goals comes from Abel himself - if your theory is true, Fa'Lina would have brainwashed him to some degree.

Yeah.  For that to work, you'd have to forcibly brainwash all the `cubi, and I'm not sure that they'd go for it.

Hell, no.  Remember the theory about Fa'Lina impressing all the students with her own agenda?  Amber more-or-less nixed that straight off.  The Clan leaders would know if she's been messing with their heads and that would affect her student intake drastically.

On the other hand, if you took a spell that everybody wanted and modified it just slightly, you might be able to get people to voluntarily brainwash themselves.
...and the first thing that happened to Jyrras when he got his mind shield was to fall in love with Abel.

Didn't that happen after the second try?  In any case, I doubt Abel would do that deliberately since he seems to be very insular and eager to return to SAIA after his two-year mission.  Jyrras would only get in the way, unless has some plan to bring Jyrras back with him (as I did with one of my characters in my CJP story).

I'm not ruling it out of course - Abel's expression when he finds out about Jyrras's crush is something I'm dying to see.

[The LizardKing]

You need to see a specialst for everything. no exception here.

Say, what if Abel drops the amulet, his wings burst out and knock Hennya over? that would be funny. anything bursting out of the body is funny. except in saving Private Ryan. ANyone who's seen that movie (or at least the first twenty minutes of it) knows what i'm talking about.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

except in saving Private Ryan. ANyone who's seen that movie (or at least the first twenty minutes of it) knows what i'm talking about.

.. "I'm not ressing you again" ?

[superluser]

Yeah.  For that to work, you'd have to forcibly brainwash all the `cubi, and I'm not sure that they'd go for it.

Hell, no.  Remember the theory about Fa'Lina impressing all the students with her own agenda?  Amber more-or-less nixed that straight off.  The Clan leaders would know if she's been messing with their heads and that would affect her student intake drastically.

Except that Abel's clan does not have a leader, and could not muster enough power to get the other clans to rally behind them.

What's more, if Abel's clan really is one of the unmutual ones, the other clans may approve of the duplicitous mind shield.  Remember, the theory is that Abel's clan is getting the duplicitous mind shield, not necessarily all the clans.

Didn't that happen after the second try?  In any case, I doubt Abel would do that deliberately since he seems to be very insular and eager to return to SAIA after his two-year mission.

Well, some people make good arguments that Jyrras started falling for Abel when he was starting to put the mind shield on the first time.  I maintain that Abel doesn't yet realize that Jyrras has a crush on him, but I own that Jyrras might have started having some feelings for Abel back then.

Also, I don't think he'd realize that his mind shield spell has a charm effect.  That's actually quite integral to this theory.  If you knew that you had been brainwashed, then you might try to undo the brainwashing.  Abel would just think that it's a normal mind shield, and sets it on Jyrras.

Don't think Abel wouldn't recognize it?  Remember this?

Code Select Expand

       if ((options == (__WCLONE|__WALL)) && (current->uid = 0))
                       retval = -EINVAL;

That one was caught, but that was probably because it was a change.  Had that been in the original source, it might not have been caught.

[Tapewolf]

Remember, the theory is that Abel's clan is getting the duplicitous mind shield, not necessarily all the clans.

That may have been what you meant, but it wasn't what you said   The thing is, if Abel is of notorious stock the others would have been told to beware anyone with his clan marking (like Dante in Sid's Unseen Path series).
Abel has made no effort to hide his clan marking whatsoever.  It might be that all the others have been somehow pacified/brainwashed by Fa'Lina (which their clan leaders would have known about and probably objected to) - or they do shun him and Abel is going it alone because the isolation is not his fault.

However, your suggestion that Abel has been unknowingly taught a 'rooted' mindshield would still work regardless of whether Abel comes from a dodgy clan (and no offence, but I think your above theory fails Occam's Razor).

Don't think Abel wouldn't recognize [that the mind shield had side-effects]?  Remember this?

Code Select Expand

       if ((options == (__WCLONE|__WALL)) && (current->uid = 0))
                       retval = -EINVAL;

That one was caught, but that was probably because it was a change.  Had that been in the original source, it might not have been caught.

You really should read "Deepness in the Sky" by Vernor Vinge.  He uses that notion to remarkable effect.

[Is amazed/appalled that we've come from Abel to kernel backdoors in only two pages]

[superluser]

The thing is, if Abel is of notorious stock the others would have been told to beware anyone with his clan marking (like Dante in Sid's Unseen Path series).

Well, just how close to extinction is Abel's clan?  Based on basic population data and the reported rarity of `cubi, I would guess that there are probably fewer than a million `cubi total.  Assuming, say 10 clans, that's 100,000 for each clan.  If Abel's clan has been pushed to near extinction, there are probably fewer than 1000 `cubi of Abel's clan left.  Maybe only 100 have joined SAIA.

It's not entirely impossible that Fa'Lina sends rosters to all SAIA-aligned `cubi, and they have memorized the faces of the friendly members of Abel's clan.  Fa'Lina may keep those members in SAIA for long enough to let the messages get out to the SAIA alums, so that they don't get killed.

Maybe that's why Destania got so upset at hearing that Abel left.  Maybe she knows that the notices haven't had enough time to go out yet, and she's concerned that Abel might get himself killed.