2019-10-28 [DMFA #1951] - Communication let me down

[Tapewolf]

Dan is quite right here, he's been dropped headlong into a society of which he's entirely unaware of, and barely knows what he is.  A month of learning will not prepare him for any of this, and assuming that he has any idea what he's doing is unfair, especially from someone about 17 times his age.

That aside, when he first contacted Cyra, she downloaded his mind.  I have been worried with Epsilon in particular, that this creates a few writing problems when clan members talk to their leader, e.g. "Daryil should just know X by virtue of being in the same room as Jakob/Nigel".  So I'm relieved to see that it isn't an automatic thing.

[killpurakat]

That aside, when he first contacted Cyra, she downloaded his mind.  I have been worried with Epsilon in particular, that this creates a few writing problems when clan members talk to their leader, e.g. "Daryil should just know X by virtue of being in the same room as Jakob/Nigel".  So I'm relieved to see that it isn't an automatic thing.

Umm... "Downloaded his mind"? She contacted him and was able to pick up on his surface thoughts (of which Dan had a few, and probably had trouble thinking of nothing but, to be honest). Nothing more. If leaders had immediate access to everything in their clan members heads, events like Zezzuva killing her sister and stealing her power to become leader wouldn't/couldn't happen, because the leader would instantly know.

That aside, I'm very concerned with, when Destania's part in Owona's death (via Biggs's plan) comes to light, how Cyra and Dan will react. Dan is rapidly becoming aware of how much his mother hasn't told him/didn't care enough to tell him, and I have a feeling her dismissing Alexi's life plus all this is going to turn Dan against her permanently, and Cyra being so kind and willing to do anything she can for him is casting Destania's selfish acts in a much harsher light. Also, I have a feeling this "get rid of all the dragons" plan isn't just to get rid of the dragons, but may in fact be Destania trying to become a leader herself as a way to also get back at her mom for her perceived role in destroying Destania's shot at a normal life. The power necessary to wipe out a race and that has already taken out a clan leader sounds like the type strong enough for an ascension.

[Tapewolf]

Umm... "Downloaded his mind"? She contacted him and was able to pick up on his surface thoughts (of which Dan had a few, and probably had trouble thinking of nothing but, to be honest). Nothing more. If leaders had immediate access to everything in their clan members heads, events like Zezzuva killing her sister and stealing her power to become leader wouldn't/couldn't happen, because the leader would instantly know.

Yeah, that was a rather rushed way of putting it, but you get the picture.  AFAIK a clan leader can have access to a clan member's recent memories when they are in their proximity or mentally linked to them.  It's something you can learn to block, as I understand it, which is what you'd do if you were going to take their place.  I don't know whether it works through avatars either.
I can probably dig up the comments regarding that topic.

[killpurakat]

Yeah, that was a rather rushed way of putting it, but you get the picture.  AFAIK a clan leader can have access to a clan member's recent memories when they are in their proximity or mentally linked to them.  It's something you can learn to block, as I understand it, which is what you'd do if you were going to take their place.  I don't know whether it works through avatars either.
I can probably dig up the comments regarding that topic.

Um, yeah, please do, because that isn't what has been shown in the comics, and I don't recall Amber mentioning it in a QftR.

[Tapewolf]

Yeah, that was a rather rushed way of putting it, but you get the picture.  AFAIK a clan leader can have access to a clan member's recent memories when they are in their proximity or mentally linked to them.  It's something you can learn to block, as I understand it, which is what you'd do if you were going to take their place.  I don't know whether it works through avatars either.
I can probably dig up the comments regarding that topic.

Um, yeah, please do, because that isn't what has been shown in the comics, and I don't recall Amber mentioning it in a QftR.

It's mentioned briefly in p.1213.  But here's an explanation:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,8254.msg350606.html#msg350606

"Even if  [Dan did have mind shields], they wouldn't really help all that much.  Cubi Clan leaders kind of get a pass around a lot of things when it involves their own clans.  And while I realize that the whole "accessing memories" thing can be kind of creepy...that is in some ways the intent in that for a Cubi, it's actually perfectly normal and expected that your clan leader has full access to your own memories and information. It's one of the ways a clan leader gets their information: via their descendents out in the world.  Admittedly there are ways for one to cut the link to varying degrees, but usually that raises a lot of red flags and tends to result in the member also losing out on their sweet power-boost.

I guess the thing with this strip is that it's a culture shock for both Dan and Cyra.  The average Cubi growing up in Cubi-centric lives would expect a larger than life leader who is big and impressive and as such most leaders are more than happy to accomodate that.  The average Cubi (with a clan leader) would know that when you tap into your Clan Leader, you are giving them full access to your mental archives. Dan though isn't really average, and Cyra has picked up on that and thus is adjusting accordingly.  It's kind of catch 22 in that Cyra didn't know that Dan didn't know about the mental information share until she did the mental information share, so it's a bit of a "oops" on both parts there.

TlDr: One sided Hive miIIiiiiIiind."

[killpurakat]

Ah, okay, that makes explains your comment better. Thanks for sharing!

Also, it occurred to me that Owona and Cyra might not have been close, but may have been friends due to both being "young" clan leaders (along with Fa'Lina), so this is could be more than a little scary for Cyra, to not only hear about the loss of a clan leader, but one that wasn't, in the weird way leaders think about time, that much older than her.

[Amber Williams]

That said, I'm going to say that there's a high chance that the comment made in 2011 has had some evolution and shifted from the current thing so may no longer be 100% accurate.

[Tapewolf]

That said, I'm going to say that there's a high chance that the comment made in 2011 has had some evolution and shifted from the current thing so may no longer be 100% accurate.

True.

[Amber Williams]

If you'd prefer an updated version, it is a case that the Clan Leader can tap into their descendants when they can connect (And yes, Cyra did technically do that when Dan first appeared...but her reasons was more due to paranoia of 'who this? Trap?" confusion.)   But...it's generally very bad etiquette to do so without the consent of their descendant.  Which is why Cyra would not have done so again after the first encounter.  The big nerf is that it's not ever constant/at any point.  A descendant needs to mental link with their Clan Leader for it to work.

That and Clan Leaders can be particular about what information they gleam.  So it's generally not a full mental download every time they tap in.  There's a lot of trust that tends to go between a leader and a clan member since a leader needs to trust their members and respect some of their mental privacy and members need to trust their leader not to grab all their mental secrets.

[InhumanInterest]

That actually does make a lot of sense. People with semi-phenomenal nearly cosmic power are still people and personality would definitely be the biggest source for any misunderstandings or misteps there.

((And if Matilda gets any more adorable she'll probably break some form of physical law and may destroy all life as we know it))

[killpurakat]

If you'd prefer an updated version, it is a case that the Clan Leader can tap into their descendants when they can connect (And yes, Cyra did technically do that when Dan first appeared...but her reasons was more due to paranoia of 'who this? Trap?" confusion.)   But...it's generally very bad etiquette to do so without the consent of their descendant.  Which is why Cyra would not have done so again after the first encounter.  The big nerf is that it's not ever constant/at any point.  A descendant needs to mental link with their Clan Leader for it to work.

That and Clan Leaders can be particular about what information they gleam.  So it's generally not a full mental download every time they tap in.  There's a lot of trust that tends to go between a leader and a clan member since a leader needs to trust their members and respect some of their mental privacy and members need to trust their leader not to grab all their mental secrets.

This was what I was imagining the situation was like before reading the old comments, because I couldn't get how Zezzuva did what she did without some planning and plotting. Mostly, it just made sense to me from how the leaders act (dunno why, but Piflak in particular felt this way when talking to her relatives at the party).

And from a "privacy" stand point, I could see clan members being okay with, "here's the intel I gathered on X, let me know what to do with it and what you think of it," but being much less okay with, "here's everything from my life, including all the sexy times and I welcome comments/for you to share with the rest of the family." Or even, "No, grandma, I don't care if you say you had a harder time and more pain, get out of my head and let me give birth! ARGH!!!"

Although, that being said, I wonder if clan members and leaders can use a mental link to help with pain via distraction, either in RL "common" situations like child birth or more insidious things like torture, or if that is possible but rarely used because the pain either filters from the leader to all the members (so, not beneficial) or that link can then be exploited and used to find the leader's exact location.

(Or maybe clan members can be used as projectors and allow leaders and multiple members to witness/experience the same thing, like a movie. One ticket, 100 watchers.)

[Tapewolf]

Thanks, that makes sense.  We did do some jokes around this in Epsilon but you could write that off as Daryil still being inexperienced.

[Tuyu]

This would probably be a good time for Dan to let Cyra review his memories of the Clan Leader meeting...

[Cassi-kun]

((And if Matilda gets any more adorable she'll probably break some form of physical law and may destroy all life as we know it))

Matilda is cutest snakey taur 

[Wanderer]

I'm sorry, I'm just here to watch Matilda be insanely adorable.

[InhumanInterest]

Don't apologize, that is an extremely valid reason to be here

[Merlin]

hello welcome to the new matilda appreciation station

[YawnPB]

Matilda is kinda reminding me of playing with my hamster as a kid.  When they just walk between your hands like a jungle gym. 

If a clan leaders soul can be used to ascend to tri-wing status, can that be used by a cubi outside their own clan?  What would happen to a different race if they somehow managed to subdue and eat a tri-wing soul?  Even being dead Owona is still causing mysteries.