2018-07-06 [DMFA#1850] Nothing at All

[Rafe]

Regina looks about depressed as I thought she'd be about facing her true feelings. And Viv being married three times somehow comes as no surprise.

[EDIT] I got to wondering about a Cubi/Demon marriage. We've seen beings with Cubi and Demons, but not this. I'm not going to get obsessed with all the details, but the whole divorce thing has me wondering. The one "divorce" we've seen is the one of Kria from Lorenda's father (here: http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_339.php). I'm guessing that "passion" in that instance is something of an understatement. And, I suppose it could also be described as a rampage. [END EDIT]

I'm also feeling the hot weather, as Amber keeps mentioning, so I'd like to offer the coldest Canadian song I know of. It always helps.

"Frozen in Frobisher Bay": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaVp23QhS30

  another, spookier choral version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30NtEhaq-ys

[FairWage22]

Fashion is a Passion for Viv.

She wants Regina to find it smashin'.

Rampages aren't counter-productive, they're a *distraction*...

[Howl]

I wonder if this all will push her to try to apologize to Dan. Not that he would be liable to accept it given the circumstances, and Wildy sure as hell wouldn't, either directly or by proxy, but she has copped to Viv both that she didn't want to do what she did, and she doesn't want to rampage at all. Gotta wonder if she'll slide into the mindset of "I should try to make peace, even though I know he isn't gonna take it.", really.

Sometimes you try things you know aren't gonna pan out because you feel like they're the right thing to do, after all.

[The One Guy]

I wonder if this all will push her to try to apologize to Dan. Not that he would be liable to accept it given the circumstances, and Wildy sure as hell wouldn't, either directly or by proxy, but she has copped to Viv both that she didn't want to do what she did, and she doesn't want to rampage at all. Gotta wonder if she'll slide into the mindset of "I should try to make peace, even though I know he isn't gonna take it.", really.

Sometimes you try things you know aren't gonna pan out because you feel like they're the right thing to do, after all.

This realization changes nothing about the incident that made her hate him, though.

[Howl]

Well, full blown murder is kind of worse than someone trying to get you into bed with them. Especially if that's not what they were actually doing in the first place.

[Yarott]

Heh, panels 3 to 5 make it seem like she has squiggly wings. Not sure why that's distracting me... 

[Kazy]

This realization changes nothing about the incident that made her hate him, though.

Does it though? It means the gist of what Dan was getting at was right, that things don't have to be the way they are. Regina's surely not the only demon who feels like this. How many others are just rampaging for the sake of keeping up appearances?

[The One Guy]

This realization changes nothing about the incident that made her hate him, though.

Does it though? It means the gist of what Dan was getting at was right, that things don't have to be the way they are. Regina's surely not the only demon who feels like this. How many others are just rampaging for the sake of keeping up appearances?

Except she misinterpreted what he was saying.  It was never about Dan's actual point, but her perceived view of Dan being creepy trying to get with her and "tame" her.

[Hariman]

This realization changes nothing about the incident that made her hate him, though.

Does it though? It means the gist of what Dan was getting at was right, that things don't have to be the way they are. Regina's surely not the only demon who feels like this. How many others are just rampaging for the sake of keeping up appearances?

How many others are rampaging at all?

I do recall a "stuck a pig in an alley" theory from a while back on the forums. Some of us wondered if some demons fake rampages to fit in, while actually killing an animal or just buying a couple buckets of blood.

We DO have two examples of the extremes. Kria, who is very old fashioned and murder happy. And Lorenda, who is almost completely the opposite, aside from being a little hungry around travelling salesmen and suspicious fellow tenants until recently.

[HaDDea]

Does it though? It means the gist of what Dan was getting at was right, that things don't have to be the way they are. Regina's surely not the only demon who feels like this. How many others are just rampaging for the sake of keeping up appearances?

How many others are rampaging at all?

I do recall a "stuck a pig in an alley" theory from a while back on the forums. Some of us wondered if some demons fake rampages to fit in, while actually killing an animal or just buying a couple buckets of blood.

We DO have two examples of the extremes. Kria, who is very old fashioned and murder happy. And Lorenda, who is almost completely the opposite, aside from being a little hungry around travelling salesmen and suspicious fellow tenants until recently.

True, but even Lorenda mentioned that her first impulse is to lash out when annoyed or irriated - an impulse she feels she has to suppress (which, given she has being friends and hangs out in mixed society, is likely necessary to keep herself from harming them unintentionally). Regina follows this trend, despite not getting anything emotionally out of the experience. Rampaging does seem like a natural outgrowth of the Demon race's natural strength and first impulses to violence when things get uncomfy. It's just a pity it has become so staunchly traditionalized as a first benchmark of a young Demon's strength; there are other ways of demonstrating power, after all (destruction, after all, is not a particularly powerful power - you don't need to be very old, or sentient, or even alive to destroy).

[Cassi-kun]

It seems Regina's attitude towards rampaging has changed since we met her. She's gone from daydreaming about carefree slaughter [and ice cream!] to wanting to rampage for popularity / notoriety, and now accepting that rampaging just isn't something she wants to do.

[Nightmask]

Well, full blown murder is kind of worse than someone trying to get you into bed with them. Especially if that's not what they were actually doing in the first place.

While true Regina isn't guilty of murder, murder require you be acting with intent to end someone's life without some justifiable cause like self-defense, so Regina never committed murder.  Her first kill was an accident due to hasty reflexes and thinking the person touching her was someone she thought would handle the attack, the others self-defense.  When people are trying to kill you you don't actually have a duty to avoid killing them when it most likely will result in your death. It's nice when people do (and the default for super-heroes) but it's not actually something you're required to do.

[Jasonrevall]

Well, full blown murder is kind of worse than someone trying to get you into bed with them. Especially if that's not what they were actually doing in the first place.

While true Regina isn't guilty of murder, murder require you be acting with intent to end someone's life without some justifiable cause like self-defense, so Regina never committed murder.  Her first kill was an accident due to hasty reflexes and thinking the person touching her was someone she thought would handle the attack, the others self-defense.  When people are trying to kill you you don't actually have a duty to avoid killing them when it most likely will result in your death. It's nice when people do (and the default for super-heroes) but it's not actually something you're required to do.

The thing here is that we have to disconnect ourselves from this situation and not try to take it for a 1 to 1 in reality. There's no way to do that without pinning Regina as a murderer. I mean we already have to forgive Lorenda for eating tenants in her old homes its the whole Vegeta scenario you just kinda have to roll with the fact that they've killed people in the past and remember that this is just a comic. Not everything is necessarily going to pan out like in reality because sometimes thats just boring and depressing. If I wanted reality I'd be outside not reading a webcomic.

That being said, what you said is not true. Upon further research reckless acts such as swinging wildly when someone touches you isn't manslaughter it is actually murder. You are acting against the person directly who is touching you even if you don't know who they are violent actions that end in death is still murder. Punching someone in the face hard enough to kill them is murder for example even if you didn't intend to kill them. Even if you want to debate self defense for the other incident outside, which I very much disagree with, any court that exists with any level of justice in mind would call what happened to wildy's mom murder. Whether or not they'd get life in prison would still be up for debate however. What Regina did could arguably be considered second degree murder and not first degree murder. Second degree is minimum 25 with a firearm but due to the fact this world doesn't really have those her claws being lethal weapons i think would count. So 25 to life would be about the sentence so comparative punishments could potentially be worked into the narrative and since its a fantastical world other forms of sacrifice could also be made to redeem herself.

I still believe Regina has a good chance of becoming a great and fun character down the line and I'm really interested in seeing where her character is going. However, no matter what way you slice it in reality what Regina did would be considered murder.

[Nightmask]

Well, full blown murder is kind of worse than someone trying to get you into bed with them. Especially if that's not what they were actually doing in the first place.

While true Regina isn't guilty of murder, murder require you be acting with intent to end someone's life without some justifiable cause like self-defense, so Regina never committed murder.  Her first kill was an accident due to hasty reflexes and thinking the person touching her was someone she thought would handle the attack, the others self-defense.  When people are trying to kill you you don't actually have a duty to avoid killing them when it most likely will result in your death. It's nice when people do (and the default for super-heroes) but it's not actually something you're required to do.

The thing here is that we have to disconnect ourselves from this situation and not try to take it for a 1 to 1 in reality. There's no way to do that without pinning Regina as a murderer. I mean we already have to forgive Lorenda for eating tenants in her old homes its the whole Vegeta scenario you just kinda have to roll with the fact that they've killed people in the past and remember that this is just a comic. Not everything is necessarily going to pan out like in reality because sometimes thats just boring and depressing. If I wanted reality I'd be outside not reading a webcomic.

That being said, what you said is not true. Upon further research reckless acts such as swinging wildly when someone touches you isn't manslaughter it is actually murder. You are acting against the person directly who is touching you even if you don't know who they are violent actions that end in death is still murder. Punching someone in the face hard enough to kill them is murder for example even if you didn't intend to kill them. Even if you want to debate self defense for the other incident outside, which I very much disagree with, any court that exists with any level of justice in mind would call what happened to wildy's mom murder. Whether or not they'd get life in prison would still be up for debate however. What Regina did could arguably be considered second degree murder and not first degree murder. Second degree is minimum 25 with a firearm but due to the fact this world doesn't really have those her claws being lethal weapons i think would count. So 25 to life would be about the sentence so comparative punishments could potentially be worked into the narrative and since its a fantastical world other forms of sacrifice could also be made to redeem herself.

I still believe Regina has a good chance of becoming a great and fun character down the line and I'm really interested in seeing where her character is going. However, no matter what way you slice it in reality what Regina did would be considered murder.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that because based on the definition of murder Regina isn't guilty of meeting that definition.  She didn't act with the intent to kill, she believed she was acting against someone that it would have been relatively harmless against and in self-defense (since usually people don't side with a guy trying to keep a woman from leaving even if they know he means no harm when they know she doesn't know that) and chose to leave because she DIDN'T want to find herself having to kill anyone else (unfortunately circumstances just weren't on her side).

[Lying Foo]

...I'm not sure how her actions would look under a common-law system.  I think she'd probably be able to get away with a manslaughter rap if it were just Wildy's mother, but the adventurers are problematic, since kind of the entire point of having a legal system, common or civil, is that we're unlikely to end up in the situations either they or Regina were in at that moment, and so it's not really built for them.  If they attacked her first, they probably wouldn't have been justified in our world in doing so, since no one was under immediate threat, and so if they'd killed her, that would be murder - even though under Furrae rules it certainly wouldn't be once the death of Wildy's mother came to light.  If she attacked them preemptively, that would be murder; if they attacked her, though, and she killed them, I think she'd have a case for that being justifiable, despite being caked in blood from a culpable homicide, since they had no way of knowing that.

[Jasonrevall]

Well, full blown murder is kind of worse than someone trying to get you into bed with them. Especially if that's not what they were actually doing in the first place.

While true Regina isn't guilty of murder, murder require you be acting with intent to end someone's life without some justifiable cause like self-defense, so Regina never committed murder.  Her first kill was an accident due to hasty reflexes and thinking the person touching her was someone she thought would handle the attack, the others self-defense.  When people are trying to kill you you don't actually have a duty to avoid killing them when it most likely will result in your death. It's nice when people do (and the default for super-heroes) but it's not actually something you're required to do.

The thing here is that we have to disconnect ourselves from this situation and not try to take it for a 1 to 1 in reality. There's no way to do that without pinning Regina as a murderer. I mean we already have to forgive Lorenda for eating tenants in her old homes its the whole Vegeta scenario you just kinda have to roll with the fact that they've killed people in the past and remember that this is just a comic. Not everything is necessarily going to pan out like in reality because sometimes thats just boring and depressing. If I wanted reality I'd be outside not reading a webcomic.

That being said, what you said is not true. Upon further research reckless acts such as swinging wildly when someone touches you isn't manslaughter it is actually murder. You are acting against the person directly who is touching you even if you don't know who they are violent actions that end in death is still murder. Punching someone in the face hard enough to kill them is murder for example even if you didn't intend to kill them. Even if you want to debate self defense for the other incident outside, which I very much disagree with, any court that exists with any level of justice in mind would call what happened to wildy's mom murder. Whether or not they'd get life in prison would still be up for debate however. What Regina did could arguably be considered second degree murder and not first degree murder. Second degree is minimum 25 with a firearm but due to the fact this world doesn't really have those her claws being lethal weapons i think would count. So 25 to life would be about the sentence so comparative punishments could potentially be worked into the narrative and since its a fantastical world other forms of sacrifice could also be made to redeem herself.

I still believe Regina has a good chance of becoming a great and fun character down the line and I'm really interested in seeing where her character is going. However, no matter what way you slice it in reality what Regina did would be considered murder.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that because based on the definition of murder Regina isn't guilty of meeting that definition.  She didn't act with the intent to kill, she believed she was acting against someone that it would have been relatively harmless against and in self-defense (since usually people don't side with a guy trying to keep a woman from leaving even if they know he means no harm when they know she doesn't know that) and chose to leave because she DIDN'T want to find herself having to kill anyone else (unfortunately circumstances just weren't on her side).

What Regina believes is completely irrelevant. Reckless behavior that kills is the same as intent to kill. Regina was reckless so therefore it is not manslaughter it is murder by legal definition. Theres tons of examples of this happening in real life where people who are reckless get second or third degree murder for reckless actions with no plan or intent to kill. Laws are meant to keep civilization safe as much as they can and people being reckless are a danger to everyone. The punishments are harsher for deaths by reckless behavior than accidents that were truly circumstantial thats why theres different degrees of murder and kinds of manslaughter.

*EDIT* "a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first degree murder and voluntary manslaughter."

[Hariman]

This reversed some of the ill will caused by Regina's actions on confronting the adventurers.

mainly because it shows that she's actually learning and thinking about what she's done.

Viv has already shown herself smart enough to push Regina towards never rampaging again.

Viv might also be devious enough encourage Regina to eventually convince Regina to print a tell all about her first disastrous Rampage and to sincerely apologize for the damage she did.