PETA - Hypocritical? Yeah. [R/NC-17]

[Arcalane]

I saw this link posted in an IRC channel earlier today, and it's certainly an interesting one. It's a 15-minute video from YouTube of an episode of Pen & Teller's Bull****, on the topic of PETA.

It contains some quite foul (no pun intended) language (although I'm sure it's nothing worse than many of us have already heard...), a blurry scene of a slaughterhouse (a few seconds and nothing very graphic), and political/appearance comparisons between the Nazi Concentration Camps & Modern Farms.

Lots of 'political' stuff, but a convincing and interesting video.

You have been warned.

Link[/u]

[Netami]

Never been a fan of PETA. Tillie keeps their livejournal contact on her friend's list and it's always so funny to watch their entries. They basically post up these retarded hate-mails from people that can't spell, and then write it off as all meat-eaters being unintelligent.

I think PETA is the best example of a group of people that are against a horrible thing, but end up being ineffective due to their own short-comings.

Since when was Vegan trendy or cool?

[xHaZxMaTx]

It all makes perfect sense, we should be so nice to all the animals while millions of people starve to death.

[bill]

PETA support firebombers. They are a bunch of dumbasses.

[Aridas]

Is that link supposed to be a pic? o.O

[Arcalane]

Is that link supposed to be a pic? o.O

No. Wierd, it's supposed to be a link to a Youtube Video.

Fixed now, anyway.

[Damaris]

I read somewhere at some point that there is actually enough produce and such sitting around to feed the entire world, and actually end hunger.  I don't know how accurate that is, but I honestly don't doubt it too much.

[xHaZxMaTx]

End hunger for how long?

[ilpalazzo]

Very interesting.

[Aridas]

Well there's always too much. Stuff wouldn't get thrown out, otherwise.

[Zedd]

I loved the end..."BULLSHIT!"

[Saist]

I read somewhere at some point that there is actually enough produce and such sitting around to feed the entire world, and actually end hunger.  I don't know how accurate that is, but I honestly don't doubt it too much.

gonna step in here and comment.

Something that the US Agricultural department may not want to have spready around too much is that they actually have to pay several hundred farmers each year to NOT farm their land. The reason why is that grains and such have a limited shelf life, and it's very easy on current US natural farm lands to overproduce beyond what our store houses are capable of holding.

That started back in the 1960's if memory serves correctly, and we can certainly say that farming itself hasn't regressed in technology. Rather, with today's chemical combinations, the food stock could grow.

And it isn't like the US isn't exporting it either. If anything, the US is known for having huge trade deficits where we literally give other countries entire shipments of our produce, but get virtually nothing back.

When you step back and look outside of the US, the assumed food shortage problem grows even more ludicrous. Say, we've all heard about MRE's that the Army uses. Meals Rejected By Ethopians. We've also seen the "picture" of an "average Ethopian" who is skinnier than a Bulimic Pop Star. What many may fail to consider is that Ethopians by and large refuse to irrigate their lands.

Irrigation is a method by which you re-route rivers or existing water sources to land that naturally doesn't have a water source. Because of the refusal by Ethopians, and in many of the countries in Africa, to irrigate their lands, much of their potential farm land is unusable. The result is that while the Ethopians (specifically) have the resources to feed and tend for themselves, they refuse to take the required steps to do so. And don't think that countries like the US, Britain, France, and other major 1st world countries haven't done anything to help try to rectify this situation. There have been numerous proposals and offers from private contractors, nation funded militaries, and from Joint Nation involvment (think U.N.) to help these 3rd world countries join the producers of the world. Flat out, the rulers in place don't want it to happen. Why? I couldn't answer.

Another example on the tip of my keyboard is countries where Hinduism or Buddhism reigns surpreme, and in some countries where Islam is prevalent. The case in point in this example is India where the citizens, or subjects depending on how you look at it, refuse to kill cows or eat certain types of meat. So, these people go hungry, starving themselves, while a fresh steak is sitting within arms reach.

I may be considered cruel, or insensative to someone else's religion here, but hey, if I'm starving, haven't eaten in weeks, and I come across a Cow? That cow is going /down/.

One of the points I've seen made by economics professors is that Countries that have accepted the realities about what they need to do to produce food and other products, produce in abundance. Those that do not accept those realities, don't produce anything at all. The case in point I've seen made is that America, while being one of the youngest countries in existance, has some of the highest produce and farm output. Why? It's not like our land was somehow better than other countries. It's not like we had a time leap advance over other countries, either. Hey, how long has Ethopia been around? Wasn't Paul writing about Ethopia in the Christian Bible?

The question can be posed then: What did America do different to produce everything, and of the actions that America took, how many can be replicated in other locations around the world?

So yes, the capability is there, and has been there for decades, to end world hunger as we know it. Wether or not the countries that can produce want to step up AND produce... well, they haven't yet.

[RJ]

(Firstly, I didn't watch the video because of my crappy computer, but anyway...)

I support more independant and less celebrity-based animal organisations, like my country's RSPCA, WIRES (who organise carers for injured/orphaned wildlife), and the Wildlife Warriors. 

I just don't see the point of PETA... sure they have quite some leverage, but it's just so flashy (as well as suspicious in many cases). After my research project for TAFE last year into the subject of animal cruelty, that just solified my belief that PETA is nothing more than a group of over-the-top idiots who don't think after the step of 'Free the animals!'.

If you take a look at some of the reports out there, you'll see that whilst PETA groups did "free" a lot of animals, they were unable to take care of them afterwards (and as such, many of those animals had to be killed).

As well, I notice that PETA hasn't done much about the humane killing of animals. They protest that it be prevented, yet they don't even go with first step of getting humane killing organised. If you look at the situation of slaughter houses over in Egypt, you'll see that the animals there are treated very harshly. In one case, Australia's RSPCA organised for a specialised machine to be installed, yet months later when an investigation team went in, they found that it hadn't been used. Not once.

Seriously, when did supporting radical animal liberationists become cool?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Further to je.saist's point about Ethiopia...

One of the reasons they won't irrigate is this: Farming is considered Men's Work. Water carrying is considered Women's Work. Hence, Real Men can farm, but they can't irrigate. Real Men wouldn't let their women irrigate, and Real Women wouldn't irrigate anyway.

Culturally, it's just Not Done.

So, instead, they starve, because they could run water to the fields, but they're not going to.


The other side of this is the cultural imperative on who eats first. You see all these starving children... but the father eats first. Then the mother. Then the older children. Then the younger children. In order. With the youngest last. So you have starving kids, particularly the younger ones, looking horrible on TV - but the parents are both fine.

Sometimes I wonder, I really do. Culture is all well and good, but common sense plays a part as well... and you need to step outside your -own- culture before it plays a part.

Would you, say, cross the road to hold down someone for a mugging? Why not? (yes, I realise this is a bit stretched, but bear with me)

The idea that, say, holding someone's head underwater to get answers, or holding someone down so someone else can rifle through their pockets is -wrong-, is cultural imperative.
It's things like this that one does without thinking, things that have been told to you since you were born, often without anyone saying explicitly what it is. Stealing is bad. Why? Killing is bad. Why?

Bear that in mind, next time you think about other culters being "wrong"....

just my 2p :-)

[Vidar]

Back to PETA.
PETA is a group of people who think that "animals are people too", and "should be free", whithout thinking of the consequences of freeing said animals.
Point in case, a few years ago, some people from a PETA-like orginisation freed a bunch of minks from a mink-farm. The animals where not indigenous, had almost no natural predators, and wreaked havoc on the local wildlife /chicken farms for a while. Eventually they where hunted down and killed / captured, but the damage was done anyway. It took a few years for the natural balance to be restored.

disclaimer: I'm no proponent of farming animals for their fur, but the animal rights activists only made things worse.

[Arcalane]

If you take a look at some of the reports out there, you'll see that whilst PETA groups did "free" a lot of animals, they were unable to take care of them afterwards (and as such, many of those animals had to be killed).

The video itself quotes that, of around 2,000 animals PETA 'saved', it had 1,300 or so 'put to sleep'.

What was more disturbing was the way the program put it - they started with an innocent comment about tax returns.

PETA paid around 9,000 dollars for a walk-in freezer, around 10ft by 15ft. They would have needed this for two things;

Meat - which nobody at PETA would be caught dead with...

ANNNNNNND - you'll love this - cadavers.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Frozen peas?

[Vidar]

Or a lot of frozen vegetable medly. Or the corpses of the foul meat-eaters they 'dissappear'. 

[Zedd]

My god its zombie protein     

[GabrielsThoughts]

PETA people sicken me, They care more about "defenceless animals" so much so that they would rather see a defenceless human die on the street and think that they deserved it. whereas a rabid dog could Maul a dozen PETA members and still be helpless and misunderstood because he was in so much pain....and then euthinized.

[Azlan]

There are some instances when a dissenting word is needed.  There are certain products produced for the meat eating world that raise the hackles on the necks of the so-called animal defenders and the less zealous among the normal population.  Such products as veal are produced from exceptionally cruel methods.  Another product, which the name escapes me at this time, but it is fattened beef liver, involves forcefeeding high-fat content meal through feeding tubes to the cattle.

Not that raising animals for the sole purpose of providing humans with food is in some way divine, it is in its own way cruel, but it is also an efficient and practical means to feed a population.  It is farming the fauna in addition to the flora, as there is an absolute population maximum a group can reach before hunting and gathering can no longer support it.  Additionally, hunting and gathering forces a people to follow the prey herds and locate the wild growths of edible vegetation.  This nomadic life style limits culture development of a people and prevents them from reaching the necessary milestones to achieve real civilization.

Tangents... sorry.

Edit: fixed glaring typo.

[Zedd]

If this wont drive most PETA people to their attention  FYI, I'm punching a cow!!

[bill]

If this wont drive most PETA people to their attention  FYI, I'm punching a cow!!

Yay!

[Brunhidden]

i heard about the tax claim for the freezer about a year ago, and i can understand how they justify putting animals to sleep rather then keep them in cages till they die of old age

however sinse probably 75% of the animals tehy take care of are carniverous they seem to have a complete blind spot

what really upsets me is not the fact they do it, its the fact that around the world millions of people donae money to PETA under the impression that they save all theese cute little puppies and kittens who would otherwise be mistreated. nope, the PETA organisation uses this large sum of money to buy plane tickets for members to attempt to throw paint on celebreties wearing fur (very rarely do they suceed, mostly they just fly people places), and sinking millions into pathetic propaganda relating people who eat chicken with the Nazi movement. anyone with one tenth of a brain would laugh at that.

and how many of theese people have spent quality time with cows and chickens? cows are nasty, sloppy, foul smelling, and are so stupid they dont even realise they can walk through thier fences without slowing down. a cow is honestly content with its life, and probably enjoys farm life more then waaaay back when they were wild and vicious animals. at least on farms they never go hungrey and get lovin on regular basis without having to run from preditors. chickens i rank with fish as far as inteligence goes, theyre kinda like a plant that moves and has about four things its teeny mind can do. and i dont care what you do to geese, theyre evil and will attack children on sight

there was a tailor had a mouse, hi didle-umpkin de-do. they lived together in one house, hi didle-umpkin de-do. hi didle-umpkin, tailor tumpkin, in the town of ramsies.  hi didle-umpkin de-do. the tailor dearly loved his mice, hi didle-umpkin de-do. he let them sleep on a bed of rice, hi didle-umpkin de-do. hi didle-umpkin, tailor tumpkin, in the town of ramsies.  hi didle-umpkin de-do.

[Arcalane]

I also found it quite amusing that, at the end of the video, after the President of PETA was giving her crappy propoganda "we never go away, we always get stronger, and we will win" speech, they'd put some chanting of what was almost certainly Soldiers cheering to Hitler.

It seems two can play at that game. A little insensitive perhaps, but an apt comparison.

Personally, I'd love to see how PETA would recover if all their dirty secrets were put straight out into the public, along with their headquarters being firebombed. Just for a little bit of sweet poetic justice.

[Toric]

On a related note, something from the other side of the pond: http://www.themeatrix.com/

My zoology professor showed me this website about 2 years ago, just now noticed there was a second video. Take special note of the fisherman at the river that gets polluted. Now according to PETA, that punk's eventually gonna go down too. I'll agree that there are quite a few practices in livestock farming that are iffy or downright wrong, but the second video makes it very tough to discern fact from fiction.

As for Sheridan's vid, I love how they pointed out the fact that a VP of PETA is diabetic, thus using insulin derived from animal research to live, and yet she opposes medical research on animals.

Hmm, penicillin was developed with the aid of animal testing. Oh yeah, that's right. Antibiotics affect all eukaryotes similarly by killing off the bacteria in them. So much for their claims about tests on one species of animal not being useful to help other species.

I love hating on PETA. At the same time, yay for intelligent non-extremist animal-rights advocates.

[bill]

The funny thing is the utter lack of concern for the amount of animals that get killed when fields are plowed to plant things.

[Toric]

The funny thing is the utter lack of concern for the amount of animals that get killed when fields are plowed to plant things.

Think of the grasshoppers! The grasshoppers!!!

[Brunhidden]

whats the next step? protesting antibacterial soap because its 'genocide'?

There are thousands of Gods who can see the fall of every sparrow, but theres only one that will try to catch them

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I prefer the god that PTerry came up with.

That's the one that will see the fall of every sparrow, and will attempt, next time, to make it fall just a bit further and faster...

He's the God of Evolution. Sort of. He's a bit... misled, at times. :-)



BTW - you're fond of that marquee effect, aren't you? :-)