Hmm. Hennya seems to be acting rather sensibly here. Maybe she just gets funny when discussing marriage.
It would happen to me.
Nobody ever said it was *points to your title* because we have lots of specialists too. Just not so specially specialized.
Someone throw the little mythos a bone...She might need a big shakedown
I wonder if magical-based healers have HMOs...
It seems they never get sick. If they did, May could just call the family doctor.
:mowdizzy Never get sick? Could it be that both Cid and May are cubi, but they didn't tell each other?
With regards,
Ted
And I wonder who is going to give Hennya enough credit for being so calm while still being concerned. Also, note the closeness. This means we're probably not too many panels away from head-wing-exposery.
Don't know about the rest of you, or about the timing, but either way I think Amber nailed it pretty well here. Abel's story was becoming a bit too emo and in need of comic relief.
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on March 01, 2007, 01:01:14 AMNobody ever said it was *points to your title* because we have lots of specialists too. Just not so specially specialized.
Previously, on
ERthis forum:
Quote from: superluser on February 24, 2007, 02:39:12 AMUnder most Earth-based circumstances, I would call ``medical healer'' redundant, but I'm curious about here. Would this be in opposition to, say, faith healers?
Quote from: Anonymized! on February 24, 2007, 11:54:51 AMConsidering the situation, and how distraught abel's mom must be at seeing her son apparently dismembered, I don't think that she meant anything specific by calling fro a medical healer.
Quote from: Don't mean to embarass anyone on February 24, 2007, 03:15:16 AMUggh. You are almost certainly over-analyzing that comment. "Medical" could imply that there was magic involved anyway since it's so integrated into a lot of things in their world.
Ooh!
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on February 24, 2007, 11:00:14 AMand Maybe they have
Mental healers for psychology or shrinks...
Ding ding! We have a winner.
Also: May's expression in panel 3 is AWE FREAKING SOME. There are about ten different emotions expressed there. Kudos.
Quote from: Stygian on March 01, 2007, 01:18:25 AM
And I wonder who is going to give Hennya any credit for being so calm while still being concerned.
Me? I think I did.
Quote from: Stygian on March 01, 2007, 01:18:25 AMDon't know about the rest of you, or about the timing, but either way I think Amber nailed it pretty well here. Abel's story was becoming a bit too emo and in need of comic relief.
Yup.
Prediction: Kria gets there before the healer.
Oh! And is that a messenger orb in the last panel? I don't think we've seen them before.
The General Practitioner Specialist Class Healer.
Yep Modern problems in the Demon ruled lands.
PROBABLY where I would live, if I lived there.
i've been following a while but am just now posting...
1. I think since Abel looks so much life May, that only she is the Cubi
2. I think Hennya is a bit of a ditz and is more the comic relief...(i still like her tho)
3. I agree, i think Kria will get there first and Abel's headwings will be revealed.
Question is, as an adventurer, how will Cid react?
When Abel starts talking again, I wonder if he'll ask Kria why she was there?
:eager
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 01, 2007, 02:24:20 AM
1. I think since Abel looks so much life May, that only she is the Cubi
Problem is, if you would've been watching the forums, you'd find out the exact opposite is more likely to be true ;P
tru, but the comic's not based on the forum, anything could happen...besides, i like to live in my own fantasy :U :) >:3
Quote from: superluser on March 01, 2007, 01:20:49 AM
Quote from: Anonymized! on February 24, 2007, 11:54:51 AMConsidering the situation, and how distraught abel's mom must be at seeing her son apparently dismembered, I don't think that she meant anything specific by calling fro a medical healer.
denonymized!
I can admit when I'm wrong, especially when I was just offering an alternate viewpoint for the sake of discussion.
(Then again, considering the spelling, maybe I shoulda kept my yap shut. :P )
Though now I'm curious what all the seventy types of specialized healers are. :rolleyes
Judging from May's words in the last panel, there might even be a specialist who specialises in determining what sort of specialist you need.
If those got a headache...I got a drill and plenty of washclothes that will clear that right up ;)
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 01, 2007, 03:52:00 AM
tru, but the comic's not based on the forum, anything could happen...besides, i like to live in my own fantasy :U :) >:3
Well, it was Amber
who said it (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1514.msg59347#msg59347). Doesn't necessarily mean it's true in Abel's case, since she is very good at misdirection. >:3
I believe the generally accepted theory is that Abel's mother was May (and she is a Being) but his father was either Cid (and he is an Incubus) or Cid is a Being and Abel's father is an unknown incubus who disguised himself as Cid to conceive a child.
Remember, Abel has a hatred of 'Cubi who assume other people's identity.
On the succubus side, there is Cid's line about May not eating much. That's not conclusive since people tend to eat less with age. May has inlaws in Zinvth, and Kria's observation that May could do magic is interesting as well - she may have turned down Kria's offer to learn it herself because she is already a highly-skilled succubus who has decided to live among Beings for some reason.
While Amber's comment about Creature-Being hybrids seems to imply that May is the Being, the whole issue is so confused by now that it could go either way :P
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 01, 2007, 03:52:00 AM
tru, but the comic's not based on the forum, anything could happen...besides, i like to live in my own fantasy :U :) >:3
No, the comic isn't based on the forum - but the posts Aridas was referring to were by Amber, where she stated that Being/Creature interbreeds tended to look like the Being. I presume you accept that she might know more than you about where the comic is going and what she means? :-)
Oh, and welcome to the forum :-)
(Dammit, Tape! Let me finish typing and post, won't you? :-)
Hennya seems to be a bit brighter than her previous lines have implied. Nuts, I was kind of hoping she was dim for some reason.
Anyway, the idea of soul-damage changing Abel's physical appearance is a fascinating one (unless I misread it and she meant it could be the reason for his withdrawal).
Quote from: LionHeart on March 01, 2007, 04:10:30 AM
Judging from May's words in the last panel, there might even be a specialist who specialises in determining what sort of specialist you need.
Isn't that what a diagnostician does? ;)
Well in any case Kria will show at the door and the whole matter of the wings and headwings will come out. If I was May I will ask Kria what is she doing here and how Abel has that tailisman in his possesion. Questions and more questions till Kria either tells the truth or just leave not answering any of them. This story is getting so good I can't wait for the next one.
Quote from: superluser on March 01, 2007, 01:20:49 AM
Oh! And is that a messenger orb in the last panel? I don't think we've seen them before.
I was just about to make a similar observation, but I saw you got there first so I'll reply instead.
I think the orb is the thing she's holding, and the fishbowl thing on the desk is a communicator which the orb goes into. The paper is presumably some Furrae equivalent of the Yellow Pages.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 04:57:37 AM
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 01, 2007, 03:52:00 AM
tru, but the comic's not based on the forum, anything could happen...besides, i like to live in my own fantasy :U :) >:3
Well, it was Amber who said it (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1514.msg59347#msg59347). Doesn't necessarily mean it's true in Abel's case, since she is very good at misdirection. >:3
I believe the generally accepted theory is that Abel's mother was May (and she is a Being) but his father was either Cid (and he is an Incubus) or Cid is a Being and Abel's father is an unknown incubus who disguised himself as Cid to conceive a child.
Remember, Abel has a hatred of 'Cubi who assume other people's identity.
On the succubus side, there is Cid's line about May not eating much. That's not conclusive since people tend to eat less with age. May has inlaws in Zinvth, and Kria's observation that May could do magic is interesting as well - she may have turned down Kria's offer to learn it herself because she is already a highly-skilled succubus who has decided to live among Beings for some reason.
While Amber's comment about Creature-Being hybrids seems to imply that May is the Being, the whole issue is so confused by now that it could go either way :P
Or it could be that BOTH of Abel's parents are cubi.
Quote from: Kibin on March 01, 2007, 07:41:13 AM
Or it could be that BOTH of Abel's parents are cubi.
Oh yes, I forgot that one. The idea of both parents pretending to be Beings so as not to frighten the other has a certain appeal, but won't explain why Abel spends 375 years being emo and hating shapeshifters, or why he hasn't tried to contact his parents.
Personally, I suspect they're both Beings and thus died centuries ago. That Abel should utterly detest them to the point of breaking all ties seems unlikely given the love they've shown their son so far.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 07:57:33 AM
Quote from: Kibin on March 01, 2007, 07:41:13 AM
Or it could be that BOTH of Abel's parents are cubi.
Oh yes, I forgot that one. The idea of both parents pretending to be Beings so as not to frighten the other has a certain appeal, but won't explain why Abel spends 375 years being emo and hating shapeshifters, or why he hasn't tried to contact his parents.
Personally, I suspect they're both Beings and thus died centuries ago. That Abel should utterly detest them to the point of breaking all ties seems unlikely given the love they've shown their son so far.
So two beings produce a cubi? Wha?
or it could be that there's 'cubi in abel's bloodline somewheres. i don't know about 'cubi genetics and whatnot, but surely some things can be passed down after one or two generations after lying dormant for so long..
just a thought, anywho.
Just wanna say, Abel's hair looks really good when we can see a lot of it like that. Since we almost never see characters from behind it's nice to get a good like. I'd almost forgotten how awesome his hair is during this sequence.
Take that, speculation addicts! *saves the economy* :U
Quote from: Kibin on March 01, 2007, 08:20:00 AM
So two beings produce a cubi? Wha?
No, I mean that Abel is a 'cuckoo', i.e. his real father was not Cid, but a 'cubi disguised as him.
It was in the longer post you quoted, actually >:3
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 06:44:08 AM
Hennya seems to be a bit brighter than her previous lines have implied. Nuts, I was kind of hoping she was dim for some reason.
My view is that the unattributed lines are pretty much -all- May, with May panicking. Which seems, if you'll forgive me, appropriate, given her and Hennya's reactions in this latest episode.
But then, we've been through that already... :-)
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 04:57:37 AMRemember, Abel has a hatred of 'Cubi who assume other people's identity.
Do we know that? Last I knew, Abel just didn't like to change base forms for some unspecified reason.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 07:57:33 AMPersonally, I suspect they're both Beings and thus died centuries ago. That Abel should utterly detest them to the point of breaking all ties seems unlikely given the love they've shown their son so far.
`Cubi do tend to get killed, though. An adventurer group could have gotten to them, or they could have been killed as part of the intra-cubi violence that Fa'Lina is trying to stop. I think she stopped it with SAIA alums, but there are sure to be non-SAIA `cubi still fighting.
In addition, Abel is on assignment, and you don't want your parents hanging around when you're working. Finally, we've seen Abel for less than a week. Maybe he is still in contact with his parent(s).
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 01, 2007, 02:24:20 AMI agree, i think Kria will get there first and Abel's headwings will be revealed.
I disagree. Abel's going to be relieved of the brooch in the next strip. Kria won't show up until the one after that.
I think I started speculating on it, but what happens when Hennya touches the brooch?
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 01, 2007, 02:24:20 AMQuestion is, as an adventurer, how will Cid react?
When Abel starts talking again, I wonder if he'll ask Kria why she was there?
I think that the absolute best would be if Cid meets Kria as she's going to their home.
``Hey! Kria! I haven't seen you in ages. What have you been up to today? ... Really? Listen, I'm just coming back from an adventure, and May's already supposed to be making a big dinner. I'm sure that she wouldn't have any problem making another plate. ... Oh, really?''
Quote from: superluser on March 01, 2007, 09:42:37 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 04:57:37 AMRemember, Abel has a hatred of 'Cubi who assume other people's identity.
Do we know that? Last I knew, Abel just didn't like to change base forms for some unspecified reason.
We do. From his cast page: "Abel has a severe dislike of Cubi who use their abilities to assume complete alternate identies."
Quote`Cubi do tend to get killed, though. An adventurer group could have gotten to them, or they could have been killed as part of the intra-cubi violence that Fa'Lina is trying to stop. I think she stopped it with SAIA alums, but there are sure to be non-SAIA `cubi still fighting.
I think the big problem [the clan wars which SAIA was founded in response to] was 7k years ago and it petered out since then, but that's just a guess.
QuoteIn addition, Abel is on assignment, and you don't want your parents hanging around when you're working. Finally, we've seen Abel for less than a week. Maybe he is still in contact with his parent(s).
He's put off leaving SAIA for decades or more, and put all his effort in being able to go it alone. If he had a family to return to, I'm not sure he'd have done what he did.
**EDIT**
There's also his long depression. If his family died (of old age or were slaughtered) while he was cooped up at SAIA, that could well do it.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 09:57:52 AMFrom his cast page: "Abel has a severe dislike of Cubi who use their abilities to assume complete alternate identies."
I remember that! Too bad I couldn't have remembered it earlier.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 09:57:52 AMHe's put off leaving SAIA for decades or more, and put all his effort in being able to go it alone. If he had a family to return to, I'm not sure he'd have done what he did.
I'm not sure if that's true. Abel was just completing SAIA, right? He's about the age that Aaryanna was when she finished. I'm not sure if he could leave, once he enrolled full time.
Plus, as I say, his parents might have been killed as part of the intra-cubi wars.
In fact... (aw, nerts!)
We know that Abel's clan is largely defunct, and does not have a leader. They might have been one of the clans that refused to join Fa'Lina at SAIA, and may have been actually targeted for elimination. What's more, his clan might have been the one that caused the wars. It's unlikely that just one clan was responsible for the wars, but this explanation is a lot more fun.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 08:40:47 AM
No, I mean that Abel is a 'cuckoo'
Dan might agree with you on that one. :mowwink
Quote from: superluser on March 01, 2007, 11:34:05 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 09:57:52 AMHe's put off leaving SAIA for decades or more, and put all his effort in being able to go it alone. If he had a family to return to, I'm not sure he'd have done what he did.
I'm not sure if that's true. Abel was just completing SAIA, right? He's about the age that Aaryanna was when she finished. I'm not sure if he could leave, once he enrolled full time.
No, he's been stalling. I don't know how long for, but according to Fa'Lina, he's studying two really useless courses like grass-growing and tennis, which he can't really be bothered to attend anyway. Also remember Destania's reaction when she found he'd actually left SAIA in 712? She actually fluffed her headwings out, so it came as a bit of a shock.
QuotePlus, as I say, his parents might have been killed as part of the intra-cubi wars.
We know that Abel's clan is largely defunct, and does not have a leader. They might have been one of the clans that refused to join Fa'Lina at SAIA, and may have been actually targeted for elimination. What's more, his clan might have been the one that caused the wars. It's unlikely that just one clan was responsible for the wars, but this explanation is a lot more fun.
It's highly likely that Abel's clan was fragmented to that point by the wars, but whether the clan member is May, Cid or the possible disguised father, we cannot say...
*Charline sways in, dressed in full hippie regalia* Like, I totally took the grass-growing class too. It was awesome and made me touch the universal oneness of the universe, man.
*Charles bangs bongo's* Crazy-eyed reaver maneater whisper Sunday mother over-achiever... :beatnik
*Charline whoahs!* Cosmic, man! Totally cosmic! :.
Quote from: Alondro on March 01, 2007, 12:05:34 PM
*Charline sways in, dressed in full hippie regalia* Like, I totally took the grass-growing class too. It was awesome and made me touch the universal oneness of the universe, man.
Making random drug references was supposed to be
my trademark, dammit! :rolleyes
(Wonders what terrible things he could do to Charline while she's zonked out)
Quote from: Stygian on March 01, 2007, 01:18:25 AM
Don't know about the rest of you, or about the timing, but either way I think Amber nailed it pretty well here. Abel's story was becoming a bit too emo and in need of comic relief.
Well, I agree with you about the emo thing, but I'm not sure if this is the right time for comic relief. Then again, kudos to Hennya for being so calm during the chaos. I really hope nothing bad happens to her.
Poor Abel, too, being limited to only two letters in his dialogue D: But being in complete and total shock combined with severe trauma tends to skewer your sense of vocabulary. I wonder how long it will take him before he gets something coherent out, and/or drops the pendant.
~Keaton the Black Jackal
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 12:17:20 PM
(Wonders what terrible things he could do to Charline while she's zonked out)
Well... you could whisper sweet nothings in her ear, and -really- destabilise her. I mean, she'd expect it and just deal with it if you induced what you or I might call nightmares, but if you induced something soft and saccharine... :-)
Well just dont take avantage of her as well..Sides..She might come back and bite ya
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: Alondro on March 01, 2007, 12:05:34 PM
*Charline sways in, dressed in full hippie regalia* Like, I totally took the grass-growing class too. It was awesome and made me touch the universal oneness of the universe, man.
Making random drug references was supposed to be my trademark, dammit! :rolleyes
(Wonders what terrible things he could do to Charline while she's zonked out)
::Hands Tapewolf a permanent marker.::
With regards,
Ted
Quote from: Zedd on March 01, 2007, 01:21:25 PM
Well just dont take avantage of her as well..Sides..She might come back and bite ya
Ooo. Do you think she'd promise?
Quote from: Ted Schiller on March 01, 2007, 01:30:33 PM
::Hands Tapewolf a permanent marker.::
*rotfl*
Quote from: Turnsky on March 01, 2007, 08:24:43 AM
or it could be that there's 'cubi in abel's bloodline somewheres. i don't know about 'cubi genetics and whatnot, but surely some things can be passed down after one or two generations after lying dormant for so long..
just a thought, anywho.
Hmmm...I think it's possible that the cubi genes can become dormant for a few generations, therefore causing a descendant of an Incubus/Succubus to be a Being.
I thought there weren't cubi genes, and that whether things happened or not was teh magik.
Quote from: Ted Schiller on March 01, 2007, 01:30:33 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: Alondro on March 01, 2007, 12:05:34 PM
*Charline sways in, dressed in full hippie regalia* Like, I totally took the grass-growing class too. It was awesome and made me touch the universal oneness of the universe, man.
Making random drug references was supposed to be my trademark, dammit! :rolleyes
(Wonders what terrible things he could do to Charline while she's zonked out)
::Hands Tapewolf a permanent marker.::
With regards,
Ted
Wait Like she is totally zone out on Grass right....
***Hauls in 10 Tons of fresh Prime Streak***
"Hey, Charline Dear, I got some fresh Buffalo streak Have you Got the Munchies?"
**goes to insure that she was fresh hydroponic super weed if she feel the need to smoke more**
I have a full fresh truck of live cattle standing by, if you want Charline..Yummy..
Thanks Super... for using my reference...I vote for May or Hennya taking the broch away from Abel really soon.
PBH
Oh May... just order the grab-bag.
why isn't there one all purpose healler that they can contact?
Alright, I want to let the forums take credit for this gag, but she was probably going to do it anyway. Great timing with the funny, Amber!
I wonder what a soul based healer's called, anyway? I mean, they're actually able to interact with souls on a magical level here, so it wouldn't just be a priest. Unless there's magic that the church knows that they're not about to teach non-members.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 11:44:28 AMNo, he's been stalling. I don't know how long for, but according to Fa'Lina, he's studying two really useless courses like grass-growing and tennis, which he can't really be bothered to attend anyway. Also remember Destania's reaction when she found he'd actually left SAIA in 712? She actually fluffed her headwings out, so it came as a bit of a shock.
Abel may be taking useless courses, but that doesn't mean that he's stalling. You know how it is when you get to the end of your senior year, and you're three credits and one PE requirement shy of graduating. You take the easiest courses available and don't show up for any classes except the finals.
I actually had a course like that once, except that I forgot to write down when the tests were, so I had to show up for every class. Slept through every class. Probably snored. Still got a B.
Destania's expression is harder to explain. Maybe she figured that he wouldn't leave SAIA without a degree, and knew when his last year was going to be.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 01, 2007, 11:44:28 AMIt's highly likely that Abel's clan was fragmented to that point by the wars, but whether the clan member is May, Cid or the possible disguised father, we cannot say...
I'm not sure if you got my point, which was that Abel's clan might have been targeted for extermination
by SAIA. Kind of like the Inquisition. If they find someone from Abel's clan, they tell him to renounce his heretical ways and enroll in the academy or they kill him.
First thing to pop into mind:
There you go forum, there-in lies your answer.
(as to the redundancy debate)
Hennya seems intelligent enough, neh?
This was because we were discussing it in the forums, wasn't it, Amber :mowninja
And no, I didn't read any of the forum posts yet :(
And it seems like orbs are the common form of communication :)
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 01, 2007, 07:28:49 PM
why isn't there one all purpose healler that they can contact?
Because anything general is either lacking in all aspects or takes forever to come out (be trained). Sad but ture. That's why there isn't a computer that can run programs from all the major OSes (Mac OS Classic, Mac OS X, Windows, Linux/XWindows). sad but true :cry
Quote from: superluser on March 01, 2007, 08:22:30 PM
Abel may be taking useless courses, but that doesn't mean that he's stalling. You know how it is when you get to the end of your senior year, and you're three credits and one PE requirement shy of graduating. You take the easiest courses available and don't show up for any classes except the finals.
I've never attended an institution that worked quite like that, but I see where you're going. I'm not sure SAIA works quite like that, given that its essential purpose is to train 'cubi for survival, unlike our rather bureaucratic system where you're in it to get a piece of paper.
QuoteDestania's expression is harder to explain. Maybe she figured that he wouldn't leave SAIA without a degree, and knew when his last year was going to be.
Course length varies considerably, depending on the subjects. There are areas which can take 800 years, IIRC and the average length is 300.
QuoteI'm not sure if you got my point, which was that Abel's clan might have been targeted for extermination by SAIA. Kind of like the Inquisition. If they find someone from Abel's clan, they tell him to renounce his heretical ways and enroll in the academy or they kill him.
Wow. That's quite an idea, although I'm not sure I buy it as-is. Fa'Lina seems to be bent on preserving the race
against purges and bloodlettings, with SAIA being shut away like some kind of emergency measure to protect condors from extinction. Her wanting to cleanse the race of Abel's fragmented clan seems rather out-of-character. Also, Abel would have gone totally schiz if he discovered that Fa'Lina killed his family.
That said, most of our key data about Fa'Lina's goals comes from Abel himself - if your theory is true, Fa'Lina would have brainwashed him to some degree.
Quote from: Madd the Sane on March 02, 2007, 01:35:12 AM
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 01, 2007, 07:28:49 PM
why isn't there one all purpose healler that they can contact?
Because anything general is either lacking in all aspects or takes forever to come out (be trained). Sad but ture. That's why there isn't a computer that can run programs from all the major OSes (Mac OS Classic, Mac OS X, Windows, Linux/XWindows). sad but true :cry
I'm not so sure that's such a good analogy.
You would think that, in a world like Furrae, you'd have general health practitioners that could deal with most common complaints and be able to refer patients to specialists as the need arose--not unlike the way things work around here. Sure, there are a lot more specialties to consider (biological, magical, psychological, soul-based, and so on), but you also have to remember that the practitioners of many of these healing arts will be creatures anyway due to the magic requirement, and thus have
lots of time to train. MDs in our world usually spend about 8 years in university followed by several more years of internship/residency/fellowship before they can hang out a shingle and set up their own practices. That's a long time for a human, but how many of those could you fit into a few centuries of creature college?
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 05:12:02 AM
QuoteDestania's expression is harder to explain. Maybe she figured that he wouldn't leave SAIA without a degree, and knew when his last year was going to be.
Course length varies considerably, depending on the subjects. There are areas which can take 800 years, IIRC and the average length is 300.
According to Amber...
Quote from: Amber Williams
Average timespans in SAIA are close to 300-400 years...but its about as stable a time-frame as the regular college kid staying for a 4 year program. Odds are most will stay a bit longer for extra things.
That's total time in SAIA, not per course. I remember her stating that individual courses lasted anywhere from years to decades, though I can't locate the reference at the moment.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 05:12:02 AM
Quote from: superluser on March 01, 2007, 08:22:30 PM
Abel may be taking useless courses, but that doesn't mean that he's stalling. You know how it is when you get to the end of your senior year, and you're three credits and one PE requirement shy of graduating. You take the easiest courses available and don't show up for any classes except the finals.
I've never attended an institution that worked quite like that, but I see where you're going. I'm not sure SAIA works quite like that, given that its essential purpose is to train 'cubi for survival, unlike our rather bureaucratic system where you're in it to get a piece of paper.
Well... there is canon evidence (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_295.php) of at least some sort of graduation requirements.
It does bring up an interesting question though as to
why people bother to graduate from SAIA, and for that matter... why it even grants degrees in the first place. Cubi seem to spend more time concealing their identities than not, and I don't see such credentials having much impact on their daily lives.
(WANTED: Incubus. Must have SAIA degree, two centuries of adventurer-slaying experience, and a cute butt. Fax resume to 555-1326. :mowdan) The curriculum appears to be so varied (from fireballs to grass-growing...) that any piece of paper you received at the end would be fairly meaningless beyond demonstrating your ability to put up with a horde of Cubi for a few centuries. It's almost like one of those prestigious liberal arts colleges that rich kids attend before going to work for daddy's company. Surely, most of the important "survival" skills could be covered in considerably less time, were that truly the goal of SAIA...
Quote from: Tezkat on March 02, 2007, 06:35:33 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 05:12:02 AM
QuoteDestania's expression is harder to explain. Maybe she figured that he wouldn't leave SAIA without a degree, and knew when his last year was going to be.
Course length varies considerably, depending on the subjects. There are areas which can take 800 years, IIRC and the average length is 300.
That's total time in SAIA, not per course. I remember her stating that individual courses lasted anywhere from years to decades, though I can't locate the reference at the moment.
Quite right - I meant 'course' as in the entire degree, rather than a single module - which is not the best way to put it.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 05:12:02 AM
Quote from: superluser on March 01, 2007, 08:22:30 PM
I've never attended an institution that worked quite like that, but I see where you're going. I'm not sure SAIA works quite like that, given that its essential purpose is to train 'cubi for survival, unlike our rather bureaucratic system where you're in it to get a piece of paper.
Well... there is canon evidence (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_295.php) of at least some sort of graduation requirements.
It does bring up an interesting question though as to why people bother to graduate from SAIA, and for that matter... why it even grants degrees in the first place.
Good call. Might be more of a memento, or the simple fact that spending 300 years and having nothing visible to show for it would be a downer :P
(My view on this is skewed - I came to loathe my university, and recently reused the picture frame for my degree to house a print of Zina's
Furrae Chronicles picture...)
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 05:12:02 AMI've never attended an institution that worked quite like that, but I see where you're going. I'm not sure SAIA works quite like that, given that its essential purpose is to train 'cubi for survival, unlike our rather bureaucratic system where you're in it to get a piece of paper.
It's very common in the universities here in the States. It's certainly true that SAIA would be less inclined to do that.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 05:12:02 AMThat said, most of our key data about Fa'Lina's goals comes from Abel himself - if your theory is true, Fa'Lina would have brainwashed him to some degree.
Yeah. For that to work, you'd have to forcibly brainwash all the `cubi, and I'm not sure that they'd go for it.
On the other hand, if you took a spell that everybody wanted and modified it just slightly, you might be able to get people to voluntarily brainwash themselves.
...and the first thing that happened to Jyrras when he got his mind shield was to fall in love with Abel.
Quote from: superluser on March 02, 2007, 08:21:55 AM
On the other hand, if you took a spell that everybody wanted and modified it just slightly, you might be able to get people to voluntarily brainwash themselves.
...and the first thing that happened to Jyrras when he got his mind shield was to fall in love with Abel.
You're -evil-.
.. will you be my fwend? *flutters eyelashes*
Quote from: superluser on March 02, 2007, 08:21:55 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 05:12:02 AMThat said, most of our key data about Fa'Lina's goals comes from Abel himself - if your theory is true, Fa'Lina would have brainwashed him to some degree.
Yeah. For that to work, you'd have to forcibly brainwash all the `cubi, and I'm not sure that they'd go for it.
Hell, no. Remember the theory about Fa'Lina impressing all the students with her own agenda? Amber more-or-less nixed that straight off. The Clan leaders would know if she's been messing with their heads and that would affect her student intake drastically.
QuoteOn the other hand, if you took a spell that everybody wanted and modified it just slightly, you might be able to get people to voluntarily brainwash themselves.
...and the first thing that happened to Jyrras when he got his mind shield was to fall in love with Abel.
Didn't that happen after the second try? In any case, I doubt Abel would do that deliberately since he seems to be very insular and eager to return to SAIA after his two-year mission. Jyrras would only get in the way, unless has some plan to bring Jyrras back with him (as I did with one of my characters in my CJP story).
I'm not ruling it out of course - Abel's expression when he finds out about Jyrras's crush is something I'm dying to see.
You need to see a specialst for everything. no exception here.
Say, what if Abel drops the amulet, his wings burst out and knock Hennya over? that would be funny. anything bursting out of the body is funny. except in saving Private Ryan. ANyone who's seen that movie (or at least the first twenty minutes of it) knows what i'm talking about.
Quote from: The LizardKing on March 02, 2007, 04:28:37 PM
except in saving Private Ryan. ANyone who's seen that movie (or at least the first twenty minutes of it) knows what i'm talking about.
.. "I'm not ressing you again" ?
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 08:51:25 AMQuote from: superluser on March 02, 2007, 08:21:55 AMYeah. For that to work, you'd have to forcibly brainwash all the `cubi, and I'm not sure that they'd go for it.
Hell, no. Remember the theory about Fa'Lina impressing all the students with her own agenda? Amber more-or-less nixed that straight off. The Clan leaders would know if she's been messing with their heads and that would affect her student intake drastically.
Except that Abel's clan does not have a leader, and could not muster enough power to get the other clans to rally behind them.
What's more, if Abel's clan really is one of the unmutual ones, the other clans may approve of the duplicitous mind shield. Remember, the theory is that Abel's clan is getting the duplicitous mind shield, not necessarily all the clans.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 08:51:25 AMDidn't that happen after the second try? In any case, I doubt Abel would do that deliberately since he seems to be very insular and eager to return to SAIA after his two-year mission.
Well, some people (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=2179.msg90381#msg90381) make good arguments that Jyrras started falling for Abel when he was starting to put the mind shield on the first time. I maintain that Abel doesn't yet realize that Jyrras has a crush on him, but I own that Jyrras might have started having some feelings for Abel back then.
Also, I don't think he'd realize that his mind shield spell has a charm effect. That's actually quite integral to this theory. If you knew that you had been brainwashed, then you might try to undo the brainwashing. Abel would just think that it's a normal mind shield, and sets it on Jyrras.
Don't think Abel wouldn't recognize it? Remember this (http://kerneltrap.org/node/1584)?
if ((options == (__WCLONE|__WALL)) && (current->uid = 0))
retval = -EINVAL;That one was caught, but that was probably because it was a change. Had that been in the original source, it might not have been caught.
Quote from: superluser on March 02, 2007, 07:26:12 PM
Remember, the theory is that Abel's clan is getting the duplicitous mind shield, not necessarily all the clans.
That may have been what you meant, but it wasn't what you said >:3 The thing is, if Abel is of notorious stock the others would have been told to beware anyone with his clan marking (like Dante in Sid's
Unseen Path series).
Abel has made no effort to hide his clan marking whatsoever. It might be that all the others have been somehow pacified/brainwashed by Fa'Lina (which their clan leaders would have known about and probably objected to) - or they do shun him and Abel is going it alone
because the isolation is not his fault.
However, your suggestion that Abel has been unknowingly taught a 'rooted' mindshield would still work regardless of whether Abel comes from a dodgy clan (and no offence, but I think your above theory fails Occam's Razor).
QuoteDon't think Abel wouldn't recognize [that the mind shield had side-effects]? Remember this (http://kerneltrap.org/node/1584)?
if ((options == (__WCLONE|__WALL)) && (current->uid = 0))
retval = -EINVAL;
That one was caught, but that was probably because it was a change. Had that been in the original source, it might not have been caught.
You really should read "Deepness in the Sky" by Vernor Vinge. He uses that notion to remarkable effect.
[Is amazed/appalled that we've come from Abel to kernel backdoors in only two pages]
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2007, 07:44:36 PMThe thing is, if Abel is of notorious stock the others would have been told to beware anyone with his clan marking (like Dante in Sid's Unseen Path series).
Well, just how close to extinction is Abel's clan? Based on basic population data and the reported rarity of `cubi, I would guess that there are probably fewer than a million `cubi total. Assuming, say 10 clans, that's 100,000 for each clan. If Abel's clan has been pushed to near extinction, there are probably fewer than 1000 `cubi of Abel's clan left. Maybe only 100 have joined SAIA.
It's not entirely impossible that Fa'Lina sends rosters to all SAIA-aligned `cubi, and they have memorized the faces of the friendly members of Abel's clan. Fa'Lina may keep those members in SAIA for long enough to let the messages get out to the SAIA alums, so that they don't get killed.
Maybe that's why Destania got so upset at hearing that Abel left. Maybe she knows that the notices haven't had enough time to go out yet, and she's concerned that Abel might get himself killed.
Quote from: superluser on March 03, 2007, 02:20:16 AM
Well, just how close to extinction is Abel's clan? Based on basic population data and the reported rarity of `cubi, I would guess that there are probably fewer than a million `cubi total.
Amber very kindly answered that: assuming she wasn't too spaced out on the meds, there are less than 30'000 'cubi as of present day. (See the 'Conversvation of Energy' thread)
QuoteMaybe that's why Destania got so upset at hearing that Abel left. Maybe she knows that the notices haven't had enough time to go out yet, and she's concerned that Abel might get himself killed.
I'm reading her expression more as amazed than horrified, but I guess it's possible.
Sorry if this has been asked before..
What makes everyone think that Abel's clan might be in danger of extermination? Even more important is What makes everyone think that he even cares what clan hes belongs to?
Quote from: aurawyn on March 03, 2007, 05:19:48 PM
What makes everyone think that Abel's clan might be in danger of extermination? Even more important is What makes everyone think that he even cares what clan hes belongs to?
"It is known that Abel belongs to a now more or less extinct clan in that the surviving members are too fragmented and scattered to be an actual considered clan anymore."
--Abel's cast page
The stuff about his clan being targeted is all Superluser's speculation, so far as I know.
**EDIT**
His clan might simply have split up (after their leader died?) but IMHO it's more likely they were nearly wiped out during the Clan Wars (of which little is really known).
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 03, 2007, 05:27:01 PM"It is known that Abel belongs to a now more or less extinct clan in that the surviving members are too fragmented and scattered to be an actual considered clan anymore."
--Abel's cast page
:erk
Wow.. I totally missed that he had a cast page...
*must pay more attention*