Oooo. I guess this is the big cliffhanger set-up to see just what kind of fate is in store for Matilda.
Wild theory time begins now.
Spoiler: She gets exiled. :mowtongue
A better question is the fate of her sister.
...Huh. that's something we haven't considered - when IS it acceptable for a male to kill another male? Obviously there's got to be some form of rules, otherwise ambitious tribe members would simply kill off entire families to foster their plans. Perhaps there are times when killing your brother/father is acceptable, and times when it is not? Are you only allowed to kill your father or brother under certain extreme circumstances? If you challenge a male, then are you free to kill? does the challenge have to be made public or carried out in a public space?
(Not demanding answers, just pondering how the BV mythos society manages to hold itself together.)
"What are we going to do with her, Brain?"
"The same thing we do with every male that kills his brother, Pinky... have him try to take over the world!"
So the clan leader's pose today immediately reminds me of this pose here:
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1065.php
Both the clan leader and Matilda are explaining in detail when doing this pose. Either this is how their culture does The Thinker or purely coincidental. Either way, love it.
Ooh! Nice catch, Tikitori.
That's an unexpectedly compassionate, if gratingly patronizing, approach to someone assumed to be a transman. Now I really want to know how their society handles transfolk when homicide isn't involved.
Quote from: Mischa on January 27, 2014, 10:04:04 PM
"What are we going to do with her, Brain?"
"The same thing we do with every male that kills his brother, Pinky... have him try to take over the world!"
You were pondering what I was pondering!
...Seriously. You beat me to it, dang you.
Quote from: Raxuno on January 27, 2014, 11:42:54 PM
Quote from: Mischa on January 27, 2014, 10:04:04 PM
"What are we going to do with her, Brain?"
"The same thing we do with every male that kills his brother, Pinky... have him try to take over the world!"
You were pondering what I was pondering!
...Seriously. You beat me to it, dang you.
But where are we going to get taur-sized rubber pants?
Quote from: HaDDea on January 27, 2014, 08:57:27 PM
...Huh. that's something we haven't considered - when IS it acceptable for a male to kill another male? Obviously there's got to be some form of rules, otherwise ambitious tribe members would simply kill off entire families to foster their plans. Perhaps there are times when killing your brother/father is acceptable, and times when it is not? Are you only allowed to kill your father or brother under certain extreme circumstances? If you challenge a male, then are you free to kill? does the challenge have to be made public or carried out in a public space?
(Not demanding answers, just pondering how the BV mythos society manages to hold itself together.)
Male killing some other male, sure. But brother killing a brother is taboo.
Anyway, in regards to that last panel, there's only one thing that immediately sprang to mind:
EXILE!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eNFgN7hMWs&t=0m56s)
I'm really not seeing where all the 'she's a transman' stuff is coming from here. Her behavior is completely covered under being a loving sister feeling rightly betrayed by the brother who committed suicide without a thought to how it would affect his sisters. She savaged his corpse as a futile effort to express that rage she felt over the betrayal and while she hasn't admitted he was already dead she's running on emotion rather than cold calculation or 'the soul of a male'. She certainly doesn't have to be male or have a male's soul to react as she did (even if because of her culture females are considered weak and kept from competing and being strong like the males).
Quote from: Nightmask on January 28, 2014, 08:59:43 PM
I'm really not seeing where all the 'she's a transman' stuff is coming from here. Her behavior is completely covered under being a loving sister feeling rightly betrayed by the brother who committed suicide without a thought to how it would affect his sisters. She savaged his corpse as a futile effort to express that rage she felt over the betrayal and while she hasn't admitted he was already dead she's running on emotion rather than cold calculation or 'the soul of a male'. She certainly doesn't have to be male or have a male's soul to react as she did (even if because of her culture females are considered weak and kept from competing and being strong like the males).
Completely agree!
The only thing that could support the transman thing for me is the fact that Matilda is unnaturally aggressive in a culture where females aren't that violent- but I feel like a brother's broken promise and suicide is a good exception.
It's been implied in a "Reader's Question" comic that she did this on purpose so that she'd be recognized as a male. It's probably to save her sister-her ONLY family left. What would have happened if Matilda told the truth about the suicide? Possibly her and her sister become an easy vacant spot and exiled anyway....
Quote from: Nightmask on January 28, 2014, 08:59:43 PMI'm really not seeing where all the 'she's a transman' stuff is coming from here. Her behavior is completely covered under being a loving sister feeling rightly betrayed by the brother who committed suicide without a thought to how it would affect his sisters. She savaged his corpse as a futile effort to express that rage she felt over the betrayal and while she hasn't admitted he was already dead she's running on emotion rather than cold calculation or 'the soul of a male'. She certainly doesn't have to be male or have a male's soul to react as she did (even if because of her culture females are considered weak and kept from competing and being strong like the males).
She isn't, of course. But their culture considers her one, the same way gay men in some parts of our world are said to receive forced legal reassignments. Just because a culture recognizes the existence of transfolk doesn't mean their concept of them isn't royally screwed up.
Quote from: Nightmask on January 28, 2014, 08:59:43 PM
Her behavior is completely covered under being a loving sister feeling rightly betrayed by the brother who committed suicide without a thought to how it would affect his sisters.
They don't know he committed suicide. She told them that
she killed him.
Just to clarify a couple o things:
If one was to ask Matilda, she would consider herself female. If anything, it's probably more telling of the culture that to them it makes more sense that a female could be a male trapped in a female body than it would be for a male to commit suicide.
Quote from: tikitori on January 27, 2014, 10:53:04 PM
So the clan leader's pose today immediately reminds me of this pose here:
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1065.php
Both the clan leader and Matilda are explaining in detail when doing this pose. Either this is how their culture does The Thinker or purely coincidental. Either way, love it.
They're both BSing. Ish. What I mean to say is, Matilda's is based on made up memories. And the Clan Leader is trying to force his limited understanding into an acceptable explanation.
Matilda recounting it is almost...boredom or quasi-casual. She's got a dullness to it from not relating to the memory.
The Clan Leader is unsure footing but quickly bulldozes into a "comfortable" scenario. He doesn't relate to it, either, but it sounds like something that could be right.
Neither of them or looking at the person they're talking to.
Quote from: katasev on January 28, 2014, 11:57:59 AM
Quote from: HaDDea on January 27, 2014, 08:57:27 PM
...Huh. that's something we haven't considered - when IS it acceptable for a male to kill another male? Obviously there's got to be some form of rules, otherwise ambitious tribe members would simply kill off entire families to foster their plans. Perhaps there are times when killing your brother/father is acceptable, and times when it is not? Are you only allowed to kill your father or brother under certain extreme circumstances? If you challenge a male, then are you free to kill? does the challenge have to be made public or carried out in a public space?
(Not demanding answers, just pondering how the BV mythos society manages to hold itself together.)
Male killing some other male, sure. But brother killing a brother is taboo.
Anyway, in regards to that last panel, there's only one thing that immediately sprang to mind:
EXILE!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eNFgN7hMWs&t=0m56s)
When I saw that,I instantly thought of Lord Mantle declaring Graveheart an exile in Shadow Raiders... I was disappointed. Oh,well. C'est la vie.
My thoughts still revolve around Matilda's sister. How will she be treated in the proceedings? Like a victim? A contributing factor? Ignored? Auctioned off? Will she be executed,to erase the family line? Exiled with her sister? Left behind? Fratricide is not a small thing,no matter your culture. And people being people,and me being the pessimist I am,I can't help but draw the conclusion that this could easily erupt into a civil war that could very easily erase Matilda's entire race. Save her.
Quote from: Riddle78 on January 29, 2014, 05:17:02 PM
When I saw that,I instantly thought of Lord Mantle declaring Graveheart an exile in Shadow Raiders... I was disappointed. Oh,well. C'est la vie.
My thoughts still revolve around Matilda's sister. How will she be treated in the proceedings? Like a victim? A contributing factor? Ignored? Auctioned off? Will she be executed,to erase the family line? Exiled with her sister? Left behind? Fratricide is not a small thing,no matter your culture. And people being people,and me being the pessimist I am,I can't help but draw the conclusion that this could easily erupt into a civil war that could very easily erase Matilda's entire race. Save her.
My best guess is that a male will claim her and that she might hold a poor(er) position because of it, since there is no brother to fight to attain her as a wife. Or maybe she'll be seen as un-marriable as a result and end up as sort of an untouchable? I sure hope not, maybe someone will pick a fight with Kissriss/Matilda on her way out to claim her sister as a wife.
*ponders* So.. From previous pages, I had thought that to be ones rival meant that eventually they would have to fight to the death.. I'm guessing now that this is not always so? Or perhaps is is only "murder" when the death is not the result of a Challenge that has been made publicly, and carried out in Public?
Quote from: Lorien077 on January 29, 2014, 05:55:11 PMMy best guess is that a male will claim her and that she might hold a poor(er) position because of it, since there is no brother to fight to attain her as a wife. Or maybe she'll be seen as un-marriable as a result and end up as sort of an untouchable? I sure hope not, maybe someone will pick a fight with Kissriss/Matilda on her way out to claim her sister as a wife.
I'm *hoping* that Matilda will arrange *somehow* for Hishnai to marry Kesserk.. I think.. So that she will at least be taken care of.
Quote from: Aurawyn on January 30, 2014, 02:01:48 PM
*ponders* So.. From previous pages, I had thought that to be ones rival meant that eventually they would have to fight to the death.. I'm guessing now that this is not always so? Or perhaps is is only "murder" when the death is not the result of a Challenge that has been made publicly, and carried out in Public?
Quote from: Lorien077 on January 29, 2014, 05:55:11 PMMy best guess is that a male will claim her and that she might hold a poor(er) position because of it, since there is no brother to fight to attain her as a wife. Or maybe she'll be seen as un-marriable as a result and end up as sort of an untouchable? I sure hope not, maybe someone will pick a fight with Kissriss/Matilda on her way out to claim her sister as a wife.
I'm *hoping* that Matilda will arrange *somehow* for Hishnai to marry Kesserk.. I think.. So that she will at least be taken care of.
With one member of the clan dead, and another exiled, there are two free spots in the clan. Kesserk can fill one spot, and with Hishnai as his mate, they can have a child immediately, if they want.
And given the culture, they probably do want to have children.
Technically Kesserk was already part of that clan, so the two free spots are just that - free spots. If Matilda gets exiled right away, that's three - plenty of space for family-starting. Since most males apparently try to have at least two wives, I can see Matilda trying to set up Hishnai in her place with Kashi as Kesserk's pair of wives, since Kashi and Matilda were already talking about wanting to be wives together since they got along so well. I just hope they give her the chance and Hishnai doesn't become an "untouchable" like someone further up said.
It's actually a pretty interesting page with how Matilda looks unsure or even slightly surprised there at the end there.
We can't really tell what exactly is having her forget her anger there. Could be any number of things. The statement about her having a soul of a brother. The faults of her father. The weakness of her brother and how it came to this. Heck she could be having another one of the points of view shattered again.
It's interesting to see how this is playing out.
Quote from: tikitori on January 27, 2014, 10:53:04 PM
So the clan leader's pose today immediately reminds me of this pose here:
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1065.php
Both the clan leader and Matilda are explaining in detail when doing this pose. Either this is how their culture does The Thinker or purely coincidental. Either way, love it.
The first thing I noticed after comparing those two pages was that Matilda's claw is black in the main comic, while in the bonus ark the male's claw is blue. Is that a gender-specific thing, or maybe the claws are like the skin in that it varies or maybe it's something that changes as they get older?
It's sadly more likely that there has been some artistic drift since between then and now in how I draw things. :U
Quote from: Hariman on January 30, 2014, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: Aurawyn on January 30, 2014, 02:01:48 PM
*ponders* So.. From previous pages, I had thought that to be ones rival meant that eventually they would have to fight to the death.. I'm guessing now that this is not always so? Or perhaps is is only "murder" when the death is not the result of a Challenge that has been made publicly, and carried out in Public?
Quote from: Lorien077 on January 29, 2014, 05:55:11 PMMy best guess is that a male will claim her and that she might hold a poor(er) position because of it, since there is no brother to fight to attain her as a wife. Or maybe she'll be seen as un-marriable as a result and end up as sort of an untouchable? I sure hope not, maybe someone will pick a fight with Kissriss/Matilda on her way out to claim her sister as a wife.
I'm *hoping* that Matilda will arrange *somehow* for Hishnai to marry Kesserk.. I think.. So that she will at least be taken care of.
With one member of the clan dead, and another exiled, there are two free spots in the clan. Kesserk can fill one spot, and with Hishnai as his mate, they can have a child immediately, if they want.
And given the culture, they probably do want to have children.
That's a really good point, maybe things for Hishnai will be okay. Seconding the hope that she can be with Kesserk.
Quote from: Lorien077 on January 31, 2014, 01:53:48 AM
Quote from: Hariman on January 30, 2014, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: Aurawyn on January 30, 2014, 02:01:48 PM
*ponders* So.. From previous pages, I had thought that to be ones rival meant that eventually they would have to fight to the death.. I'm guessing now that this is not always so? Or perhaps is is only "murder" when the death is not the result of a Challenge that has been made publicly, and carried out in Public?
Quote from: Lorien077 on January 29, 2014, 05:55:11 PMMy best guess is that a male will claim her and that she might hold a poor(er) position because of it, since there is no brother to fight to attain her as a wife. Or maybe she'll be seen as un-marriable as a result and end up as sort of an untouchable? I sure hope not, maybe someone will pick a fight with Kissriss/Matilda on her way out to claim her sister as a wife.
I'm *hoping* that Matilda will arrange *somehow* for Hishnai to marry Kesserk.. I think.. So that she will at least be taken care of.
With one member of the clan dead, and another exiled, there are two free spots in the clan. Kesserk can fill one spot, and with Hishnai as his mate, they can have a child immediately, if they want.
And given the culture, they probably do want to have children.
That's a really good point, maybe things for Hishnai will be okay. Seconding the hope that she can be with Kesserk.
I just hope Kesserk is a good husband... Kissriss' dad didn't seem to think much of him. He didn't handle losing the ladies' attention very well, either...
Quote from: joshofspam on January 30, 2014, 05:13:00 PM
We can't really tell what exactly is having her forget her anger there. Could be any number of things. The statement about her having a soul of a brother. The faults of her father. The weakness of her brother and how it came to this. Heck she could be having another one of the points of view shattered again.
Being a female, maybe she was never taught, "This is what happens if brother kills brother in modern times."
I like how Matilda's expression throughout all of this basically says "This is total BS, but I'm rolling with it."
Quote from: Nightmask on January 28, 2014, 08:59:43 PM
I'm really not seeing where all the 'she's a transman' stuff is coming from here. Her behavior is completely covered under being a loving sister feeling rightly betrayed by the brother who committed suicide without a thought to how it would affect his sisters. She savaged his corpse as a futile effort to express that rage she felt over the betrayal and while she hasn't admitted he was already dead she's running on emotion rather than cold calculation or 'the soul of a male'. She certainly doesn't have to be male or have a male's soul to react as she did (even if because of her culture females are considered weak and kept from competing and being strong like the males).
You answered your own question with that last one - Matilda isn't a trans man, but her culture considers her one because physical and emotional strength are qualities that females aren't expected to have. The elders' way of thinking is clearly wrong.
Quote from: Lying Foo on January 28, 2014, 09:47:56 PMJust because a culture recognizes the existence of transfolk doesn't mean their concept of them isn't royally screwed up.
NAILED IT
Quote from: HaDDea on January 31, 2014, 03:51:58 AM
Quote from: Lorien077 on January 31, 2014, 01:53:48 AM
Quote from: Hariman on January 30, 2014, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: Aurawyn on January 30, 2014, 02:01:48 PM
*ponders* So.. From previous pages, I had thought that to be ones rival meant that eventually they would have to fight to the death.. I'm guessing now that this is not always so? Or perhaps is is only "murder" when the death is not the result of a Challenge that has been made publicly, and carried out in Public?
Quote from: Lorien077 on January 29, 2014, 05:55:11 PMMy best guess is that a male will claim her and that she might hold a poor(er) position because of it, since there is no brother to fight to attain her as a wife. Or maybe she'll be seen as un-marriable as a result and end up as sort of an untouchable? I sure hope not, maybe someone will pick a fight with Kissriss/Matilda on her way out to claim her sister as a wife.
I'm *hoping* that Matilda will arrange *somehow* for Hishnai to marry Kesserk.. I think.. So that she will at least be taken care of.
With one member of the clan dead, and another exiled, there are two free spots in the clan. Kesserk can fill one spot, and with Hishnai as his mate, they can have a child immediately, if they want.
And given the culture, they probably do want to have children.
That's a really good point, maybe things for Hishnai will be okay. Seconding the hope that she can be with Kesserk.
I just hope Kesserk is a good husband... Kissriss' dad didn't seem to think much of him. He didn't handle losing the ladies' attention very well, either...
True. But Kesserk is strong, obviously interested in Kissriss and Hishnai, and a known factor over the random males who might claim Hishnai.
Quote from: Amber Williams on January 29, 2014, 11:13:22 AM
Just to clarify a couple o things:
If one was to ask Matilda, she would consider herself female. If anything, it's probably more telling of the culture that to them it makes more sense that a female could be a male trapped in a female body than it would be for a male to commit suicide.
Indeed.
Though, what happens when a BV mythos really is trans? Does a transman have to complete a series of challenges to prove his manhood? What does a transwoman do to prove her womanhood?
Quote from: Amber Williams on January 31, 2014, 12:04:32 AM
It's sadly more likely that there has been some artistic drift since between then and now in how I draw things. :U
Oh. I thought it had something to do with the male claws apparently being non-retractable. Are Matilda's claws blue, then?
EDIT: "Does are" Ugh. Excellent grammar there, self...
You know, other then the points that have been made that the shaman is just coming up with excuses to explain why.
I can't help but also notice how both their dependence on the crystal and how the culture can't really tolerate variants in their society.
Hard edged rules that seem to put males on top and put females at the bottom. Males that like to pick on the one male instead of trying to pick him up so when he grows up at least he can support his family on his own and not end up as an easy pigen to pluck when the time is right. The facts of you motives mean little but your actions mean everything.
To my eye, it seems like Matilda's people live on the same terms as the high school sports team bullies you see and hear about.
Quote from: Sunblink on February 01, 2014, 06:03:44 AM
I like how Matilda's expression throughout all of this basically says "This is total BS, but I'm rolling with it."
Quote from: Nightmask on January 28, 2014, 08:59:43 PM
I'm really not seeing where all the 'she's a transman' stuff is coming from here. Her behavior is completely covered under being a loving sister feeling rightly betrayed by the brother who committed suicide without a thought to how it would affect his sisters. She savaged his corpse as a futile effort to express that rage she felt over the betrayal and while she hasn't admitted he was already dead she's running on emotion rather than cold calculation or 'the soul of a male'. She certainly doesn't have to be male or have a male's soul to react as she did (even if because of her culture females are considered weak and kept from competing and being strong like the males).
You answered your own question with that last one - Matilda isn't a trans man, but her culture considers her one because physical and emotional strength are qualities that females aren't expected to have. The elders' way of thinking is clearly wrong.
Quote from: Lying Foo on January 28, 2014, 09:47:56 PMJust because a culture recognizes the existence of transfolk doesn't mean their concept of them isn't royally screwed up.
NAILED IT
I was really referring to the Forum Members who seemed to think she was a transman or spoke of her like she was one, rather than how the culture in the comic tries to deal with it. Humans (generally) recognize that being physically capable or combative or even capable of killing isn't exclusively a male thing and that it's equally possible from females and doesn't tend to go 'well she beat that guy up she must be a man in spirit'. So while I would expect the characters to have trouble with the concept of females being capable of violence and acting 'like a male' I wouldn't expect the forum members to be thinking like the characters in the comic and simply recognize that she reacted as she did out of a basic drive common to both sexes.
...but I don't see anyone saying that, though. GreyWolf comes the closest, but even then, that post is on the subject of the culture's attitudes, not Matilda's own self-image. (I mean, gods - look at the name she'll choose!)
Eh? At what point did I indicate that I saw Matilda as trans*? Every time I included a qualifier to make it clear I was speaking of the characters' reactions. My apologizes if I didn't make that obvious enough.
Quote from: Grey Wolf on February 02, 2014, 08:32:55 PM
Eh? At what point did I indicate that I saw Matilda as trans*? Every time I included a qualifier to make it clear I was speaking of the characters' reactions. My apologizes if I didn't make that obvious enough.
You did, yes. Lying Foo was using you as an example, I think, to query who the heck Nightmask was talking about...
... just in case that wasn't clear. ;-]