How powerful are creatures really ?
From what we have seen most of them tend to rely upon melee combat , and line of sight fire .
However some people have a tendency to wank creatures like Cubi to such levels as of wizards
in D&D . With claims that they can casually teleport organs out of their enemies or transmute a tonne of antimatter and teleport it on to enemy territory . Yet if the latter were the case Furrae would be a very different setting .
Also why won't the site allow me to upload an profile avatar ?
You can't 'upload' one because we don't want to store images for you. You can however link one from somewhere else. (preferably an image account of your own)
Hope that helps.
Quote from: Mao on January 10, 2014, 06:55:24 PM
You can't 'upload' one because we don't want to store images for you. You can however link one from somewhere else. (preferably an image account of your own)
Hope that helps.
Sorry let me clarify I have been using photobucket links but they all end up broken , or refused
:< Why do so few of my threads ever focus on the main topic ,
Quote from: meltingface101 on January 10, 2014, 08:12:28 PM
Sorry let me clarify I have been using photobucket links but they all end up broken , or refused
If it is bigger than 175 pixels wide or high, it won't show up.
It probably is going to vary from creature to creature and what they specialize in. I don't think any race short of the Fae could teleport organs or create a mountain to drop on enemy territory.
The thing with most creatures is that the really powerful stuff generally takes a lot of time and buildup to pull off. If there is any true advantage creatures have is that some have longer lifespans which allow them to dedicate to pulling off such shenanigans. Being able to dedicate fifty years of one's life to perfecting a ritual can really make a difference.
Low level adventures like Devin have shown feats like the spontaneous transmutaion of several kg worth of ice at will .
Yet supposedly powerful creatures like DP have been killed repeatedly by idiots with swords . Does magic have consequences for its usage .
Magic does take energy to use. The thing with magic is it is something that can be taught, it just happens that some things have a greater natural 'energy pool' than other things. However having a greater energy pool doesn't necessarily make you immune to weapons that have been magically enchanted to specifically cut through demons.
As for usage, if one uses enough magic there is the overall concequence that you'll end up shortening your own lifespan as when you overtap your natural energy, it likely eats into your own life. That spell Devin did was him being a bit overzealous due to being a bit pissy, had he survived he likely would have ended up fairly tired and probably took about 2 years off his life. Which...for a creature that lives thousands of years...ain't no big thing. But for a being, that's not something you want to do often.
Considering how the undead have no preset life span . Why have so few people gone for all out extermination , or better yet attempted mass inoculation .
Also thanks Tapewolf .
No one really knows if the undead have no preset life-span. For all that's known, after 500 years of undeath to the date they'll fizzle out. The Undead have only really been around for about 40 years in the incarnation that they are.
As for stacking with other templates, Undead actually don't stack and the vast majority of abilities creatures have get lost if one becomes undead. Cubi would lose their thought reading, emotional energy absorbing and shapeshifting abilities. Undead demons would lose their near invulnerability, Undead Mythos like Matilda's race would lose their complete resistance to heat, etc. Generally speaking going Undead is a downgrade to most creatures.
I should have properly separated them to avoid confusion .
The mechanics you laid out would also make Triwings and all their descendants walking no limits fallacies right off the bat .
They would logically be an even greater threat than any other race due to the template stacking with other creature templates , eventually resulting in some rather unholy combo platter race completely unbound by conservation of energy , or even space time if you extrapolate the pocket dimension trick . :U
So this is why everyone loves wanking their capabilities so much .
No wonder Dragons wanted them all dead .
Perhaps - except in the hybrid section, it was outlined that most of the creature traits tend not to mix well; demon, angel and dragon traits will often quash 'cubi ones, the mythos are ridiculously diverse, and the Phoenix A and Fae do not breed period. This means that while it is theoretically possible to create a race of super dragon-cubi, it would be extremely difficult from a genetic standpoint alone. Then you'd also have to contend with the cultural ideals and taboos, which based on the recent history between dragons and 'cubi, makes such a race ridiculously unlikely. Zezzuva's success with the Insectis is not typical M.O. for most 'cubi.
I think this is why people like wanking their space bar so much...
Quote from: Sprocketsdance on January 12, 2014, 12:39:50 AM
I think this is why people like wanking their space bar so much...
... nothing better to wank with?
Quote from: HaDDea on January 11, 2014, 11:59:35 PM
Perhaps - except in the hybrid section, it was outlined that most of the creature traits tend not to mix well; demon, angel and dragon traits will often quash 'cubi ones, the mythos are ridiculously diverse, and the Phoenix A and Fae do not breed period. This means that while it is theoretically possible to create a race of super dragon-cubi, it would be extremely difficult from a genetic standpoint alone. Then you'd also have to contend with the cultural ideals and taboos, which based on the recent history between dragons and 'cubi, makes such a race ridiculously unlikely. Zezzuva's success with the Insectis is not typical M.O. for most 'cubi.
Over time it wouldn't matter if they did it purposely , they are built in such a manner that each trait that adds to their power without surpassing it is passed onto the next generation . This is inevitable due the fact they regularly breed with those who are weaker than them . Though the main reason they are a threat is because they can draw upon one anothers life force . So unlike other creature races who don't get much more powerful in numbers because they can't cooperate , Cubi get more powerful by just growing in numbers .
Sprocketsdance
Are you trying to tell me to let this topic die , have I committed an infraction , or is this a warning of something else
Quote from: Amber Williams on January 11, 2014, 11:33:43 AM
As for usage, if one uses enough magic there is the overall concequence that you'll end up shortening your own lifespan as when you overtap your natural energy, it likely eats into your own life. That spell Devin did was him being a bit overzealous due to being a bit pissy, had he survived he likely would have ended up fairly tired and probably took about 2 years off his life. Which...for a creature that lives thousands of years...ain't no big thing. But for a being, that's not something you want to do often.
That's interesting. Is the natural energy a renewable resource (like, recoverable through rest, meditation, healing, etc.)? Or does one have a set energy level that is continuously depleted whenever they use magic at any time in their lives? Like, they lit a campfire magically sixteen years ago, and the energy loss is still there? And would there be a way to regain years lost by using too much magic by visiting a healer, medicine, whatever?
It renews on it's own for the most part. Some bigger spells or people going nova (expending more energy than they should have) can hamper the limit cap or their own life expectancy, but for the most part if you cast a spell to start a campfire, the energy used will be recharged by next morning.
Generally during the peak of one's life, you're going to have more energy than what you use in just existing (obviously if you are casting tons of magic each day this wont apply) As one gets older though, the amount of energy it takes to maintain one's physical peak (aka: why creatures don't age for hundreds of years) starts to slowly go past the amount of energy one naturally produces...and thus aging and the slow decline begins. It's why the whole soul stealing has a presence since the temptation of tacking on an extra 100 years to your life by offing one person is tempting. But then next time it requires two, then five, then a dozen....over time the amount of energy starts really burning faster than most creatures can keep up.
I was wondering then about the creation of magical items - scrolls, patches, etc. - could those be treated as "magical batteries"? Could you theoretically store up your own energy in some form of gem or artifact for use at a later date? I mean, it may not be much, but is it possible?
Quote from: HaDDea on January 12, 2014, 10:06:45 PM
I was wondering then about the creation of magical items - scrolls, patches, etc. - could those be treated as "magical batteries"? Could you theoretically store up your own energy in some form of gem or artifact for use at a later date? I mean, it may not be much, but is it possible?
I suspect that if anyone could manage that, Jyrras would be the guy. Possibly with help from outside sources.
On the other hand, his bent, as it were, is in other directions, and that sort of thing would enable someone with a lot of power to sit in a corner making a massive battery. You'd want to start it early in life, but... if you did it right, you could extend your lifespan by a reasonably large amount.
And that would put the balance of power back into the hands of the Creatures. So... I don't think we'll see anything of that sort going on. Interesting idea, though...
Quote from: Amber Williams on January 10, 2014, 11:37:46 PM
It probably is going to vary from creature to creature and what they specialize in. I don't think any race short of the Fae could teleport organs or create a mountain to drop on enemy territory.
The thing with most creatures is that the really powerful stuff generally takes a lot of time and buildup to pull off. If there is any true advantage creatures have is that some have longer lifespans which allow them to dedicate to pulling off such shenanigans. Being able to dedicate fifty years of one's life to perfecting a ritual can really make a difference.
And then there are the Fae, who are just Q/Discord-level god-moders. ;)
Has anyone attempted to gather souls using a cult , or the "Human cattle " method from Rats in the walls ? Races like the Insectis and Mer would be in the best position to do so .
Quote from: meltingface101 on January 14, 2014, 12:07:31 PM
Has anyone attempted to gather souls using a cult , or the "Human cattle " method from Rats in the walls ? Races like the Insectis and Mer would be in the best position to do so .
I don't know what Rats in the Walls is, but something similar to "being cattle" has been used before. The dragon M'Chek harvested the souls of the city Hishaan (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1217.php).
What I am talking about are things specialized for the collection and production of specific types of souls , along with domesticated creature strains . Also how common are Necromancers .
The details of Insectis and Mer are pretty vague (aka: secret stuff) but from what has been seen the two races seem to have not much interest at all in souls or soul-powered magic. Souls seem to be tied with sentience, so non-sentient domesticated animals don't cut it. And in terms of energy, quality, and power...trying to 'human cattle' beings seems to just result in really pisspoor results that end up exceeding resources more than benefit. Children's souls are practically useless, it seems the longer one lives the more powerful a soul generally gets...sort of like a snowball build effect. So it's likely that the quality and power is in a way tied with experiences and how the living lived.
Which is probably why the dragon M'Chek built a city rather than a cult or a being farm and had the underworkings of the soul harvest be unknown to all.
Attempts to produce specific types have always ended in failed results as it seems there is no easy to replicate scenario. Twins could be born, one could become a farmer in the country who gets married and has two kids but overall has a simple life where the other could move to the city and learn magic...and somehow the farmer ends up having a stronger soul of the two. Perhaps it is because his connection to family gives him a stronger resolve? Perhaps it is the fresh air living of country life? It's just as possible another set of twins in the exact same scenario will be inversed with the magical user having a stronger soul.
So free range souls are the best?
There is no need to render them non sentient , merely complacent , and there are several creature races that are more
powerful than beings from the get go that rely on magic very little . All it takes is a bit of patience to manipulate members of a preferred group into a state that allows optimal harvesting , after gaining their trust by means such as
offering protection , etc . In fact creature races like Weres are better suited due to small numbers and reclusive nature , even despite their power their are to few outlets they could use to harm you due to their nature .
Quote from: meltingface101 on January 15, 2014, 06:53:31 AM
There is no need to render them non sentient , merely complacent , and there are several creature races that are more
powerful than beings from the get go that rely on magic very little . All it takes is a bit of patience to manipulate members of a preferred group into a state that allows optimal harvesting , after gaining their trust by means such as
offering protection , etc . In fact creature races like Weres are better suited due to small numbers and reclusive nature , even despite their power their are to few outlets they could use to harm you due to their nature .
meltingface101, are you proposing to tell the Author how their own world works?
I mean, I respect your chutzpah, seriously, but dude. Come on. Give it a rest.
Sheesh.
.. And that's not a suggestion, btw. Next time I give you some time off to think about it.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 15, 2014, 10:06:28 AM
meltingface101, are you proposing to tell the Author how their own world works?
I apologize if I gave off that impression , I was just clarifying my previous statement due to the fact I was to vague about the subject of "Human Cattle " .
Also have there been any sentient races that did not depend upon magic/ (Possess a soul ) to regulate life functions ?
Quote from: meltingface101 on January 15, 2014, 11:10:54 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 15, 2014, 10:06:28 AM
meltingface101, are you proposing to tell the Author how their own world works?
I apologize if I gave off that impression , I was just clarifying my previous statement due to the fact I was to vague about the subject of "Human Cattle " .
Also have there been any sentient races that did not depend upon magic/ (Possess a soul ) to regulate life functions ?
As has been stated:
Quotetrying to 'human cattle' beings seems to just result in really pisspoor results that end up exceeding resources more than benefit.
Meaning that the amount of effort put in to maintaining a "crop" of beings wastes more effort than it's worth to harvest them. Lacking any self-motivation leads to pitifully underpowered souls - and let's face it, if they KNEW they were being bred and raised specifically for soul harvesting, any sentient being would either (a) get out of there or (b) have to be lobotomized, resulting aforementioned lack of self-motivation. Thus the secrecy around M'Chek's use of a city - it's basically the same thing, but you can't "herd" beings - you just have to let them live their lives and collect on the sly.
Also:
QuoteSouls seem to be tied with sentience,
Thus all sentient races have souls, ergo all sentient races depend on their "soul battery" or however you want to put it to maintain existence as themselves. One could maybe argue that if you removed the soul carefully enough the body could live on, but that would drop any kind of sentience out of them as well, so the point is moot as the being's self-actualized existence would have ended. We think, therefore, we are.
But vampires canonically existed in Furrae . It was stated that the Fae are not alive by the standards of most other races .
Also Humans existed in Furrae as well , if they are anything like real wold humans they largely rely upon chemistry and
natural forces to continue functioning instead of a mystical energy.
The fae aren't alive by the standards of the other races because the Fae are immortal. Truly immortal. Hard to compare them to any other race, when all other races are quite mortal.
Quote from: meltingface101 on January 17, 2014, 07:45:26 PM
But vampires canonically existed in Furrae . It was stated that the Fae are not alive by the standards of most other races .
Also Humans existed in Furrae as well , if they are anything like real wold humans they largely rely upon chemistry and
natural forces to continue functioning instead of a mystical energy.
And did vampires somehow not have a soul? It's already been shown that the initially created Undead had no souls (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1181.php) and thus were little more than breathing furniture - ie, not sentient. When the Dark Pegasus event happened, the previous Undead acquired both sentience and souls (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1182.php), and the newly created ones simply rise with their original souls still anchored to the same body. This is why, along with being fairly useless for soul collection, children and babies cannot be made undead (http://missmab.com/Demo/HG04.php) - not enough power, not enough ties to anchor it properly yet, I suppose. Being dead or undead or just-not-quite-alive doesn't mean there's no soul there, so I'm not sure where you're going with the vampire argument.
Fae are their own ball of wax - it's even been stated (somewhere, I can't remember, or I'd go dig it up) that what they call a "soul" is not actually anything like what beings/creatures call a "soul" - it's just the closest word that gives a vague idea of what they mean by it. Either way, you can't split it or share it or even make new ones - all attempts at hybridization result in non-sentient, soulless Hollows (http://missmab.com/Demo/HG06.php).
And did I miss the boat where here in IRL-land someone managed to prove or disprove the existence of souls? Because I'm still seeing an awful lot of churches for someone to have figured out that there isn't one. There's plenty of debate vs soul / mind / what makes us different from non-sentient animals still as far as I'm aware, which is why there're also still piles of debates as to whether or not it's ethical/humane to pull the plug on people who are brain-dead / vegetables.
Regarding Vampires, from what little we know on the matter, can we be certain that they were a form of undead? While the popular version is a corpse that can infect others with a bite, there are plenty of variations on the Vampire myth, such as the one that they are a supernatural creature (more akin to a Mythos) who happens to have a collection of powers, weaknesses and needs to create new vampires the old fashioned way.
There are so many variations on what a Vampire is, not only in pop culture but in old myths as well, that we probably cannot assume that they have every ability under the sun.
True - I myself was more making the point that if someone's trying to say vampires are non-souled sentients based on the fact that they're undead or living dead or whatever that the Undead themselves do also canonically HAVE souls, so it doesn't make sense to assume that vampires wouldn't.
If "vampire" is just a term for a fully living, not-undead type of Creature, then there's no reason at all why they alone out of all living sentient races randomly wouldn't have a soul and thus saying "but vampires were real!" has no bearing on anything. XD
ps: Under the sun (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_510.php)? I see what you did there... :mwaha
From what I'm getting so far is that the soul is a collection of metaphysical organs that can keep a body functioning even when most of the physical organs are non-functional . Even when it isn't all there a body can still function , all sentient life in Furrae depend upon these components to function . What I want to know is if there are races that don't
rely on these components . Traditionally Vampires do not have souls . The criteria for what qualifies as sentient is still very sketchy despite several years being devoted to it . Heck it's even been confirmed that plants are capable of Arithmetic . Sentience does not seem to be a reliable metric for whether something has a soul or not .
Also considering how powerful the Fae are why can't they just stuff a soul in to a hollow . It's been done people like Jyrras before with lamps , urns, etc.
Truth be told the DMFA vampires had souls in my mindset. I've never been very good at being traditional. As far as I can tell, there are no sentient races that are soul-less.
The fact the Fae can't just stuff a soul into a hollow is sort of a sore spot for the Fae. In a sense it serves as a taunting reminder that there are rules and limits that even they can't break and that drives them batty.
Quote from: Amber Williams on January 19, 2014, 12:55:30 PM
Truth be told the DMFA vampires had souls in my mindset. I've never been very good at being traditional. As far as I can tell, there are no sentient races that are soul-less.
Are there any races that do not rely upon a magical life force to exist . If I understand you correctly most races beings included rely upon magic to keep there bodies functioning , even if they have no means of consciously controlling it . Would an entity independent of magic be vulnerable to magical disease , due to having no means of fending off viruses and bacteria capable of channeling more energy than they possess in there entire body .
Also does stuffing a soul into a body result in it turning into what the soul belonged to , is that why the Fae don't use
it at all . Even if that is not the case it seems like they could circumvent it in several other ways . Considering they don't have anything resembling our sense of morality , what prevents them from abducting someone else's child and tweaking it to the point of being a watered down Fairy substitute . They do tend to be known for such behavior .
Quote from: meltingface101 on January 19, 2014, 05:08:16 PM
Considering they don't have anything resembling our sense of morality , what prevents them from abducting someone else's child and tweaking it to the point of being a watered down Fairy substitute . They do tend to be known for such behavior .
It might be worth keeping in mind the DMFA uses our mythologies as a template only, and the resemblances are often only superficial. e.g. Demons are not related to hell and don't
have to be evil. Angels are not that different to Demons and are mostly just better at deflecting the blame or getting others to do their dirty work. Unlike succubi in medieval folklore - vaporous entities who have no sex but seduce men and then impregnate women in a bizarre mammalian pollination exercise to produce witches for the Devil - DMFA 'Cubi are born with a gender and base form like most of the other races. In fact they're lot like souped-up Beings with emotional problems and built-in camouflage.
In short, don't expect DMFA races to behave like their counterparts in our own mythologies because they are not the same. The reason I say this is because a lot of the questions you've been asking over the last month or so read almost as if they were trying to shoehorn DMFA into some other universe...
The Fae have a very different set of operating systems that run their existence. It's certainly within a Fae's ability to swap mortal A's soul with mortal B's body, and they can certainly empower a non-Fae to be fairly powerful by non-Fae standards...but at the end of the day another Fae can just as easily take it away. Where as a true Fae cannot affect another true Fae. As you just described, they could tweak somebody...but at the end of the day it would really just be a watered down substitute and not the real deal.
But yes, as Tapewolf described, most of the creatures in DMFA are prolly best not to be too directly associated with the mythology of our universe. Some take a cue from them, others are completely off. It should be kept in mind many of these things were named when I was back in high school so naming creativity may not have been my strongest form.
As for magical life force...there are a lot of races that can exist just fine without it. For the sake of simplicity, I have't really delved into the aspect of magical disease so I'd say it isn't really a concern.
Would such races be incapable of using magical potions , healing artifacts ,etc or even find them outright toxic . Such races sound like they could have been unintentionally wiped out by the mere existence of magical races . I rarely
see stories in which the theme of magic interfering with natural laws technology needs to operate extrapolated to living things . It would explain why Beings are so dependent upon creatures to conjure up most of the components for
there devices and why Humans died off .
Are there any limitations on this ability to retcon people out of existence the Fae possess . Or are they just walking no limits fallacies capable of eliminating all traces of any races that annoy them past present and future along with the universe they inhabited completely from existence while making 2+2=5i , is this only limited to Furrae . How would they react if one of their members disappeared without a new one taking their place .
meltingface, is there a good reason why you're double-spacing your words. It's very jarring to read.
If someone asked you to double-space your sentences, that usually means after the full stop, not between every word...
It's a harmless force of habit .
Also I do not understand why people find it so hard to believe that a creature could convince people to willingly offer up the best of there own community for such sacrifices . There are many historical examples of civilizations that have done so even without such entities being physically present , though most of such cultures were completely wiped out .
Why is everyone seems so eager to brush such structures aside . There are many cultures in which pacts with gods , spirits , etc that revolve around the sacrifice of livestock , crops , and people . These were removed from the world due to the fact they conflicted with larger religons . Besides this seems rather tame in comparison what regularly goes on in the background of DMFA .
I guess in the case of DMFA....it's really not all that funny to think about and I do try to keep DMFA somewhat lighthearted for the most part. Generally I try to play things by the rule of funny over realism so a lot of the more sinister or grim aspects get cast aside because of it. Some will creep through the cracks from time to time...but for the most part much like how I made it so that children can't be Undead, some things that would technically make sense simply don't happen because I personally don't want it to.
I am a fickle god-artist like that.