Except by himself, I guess.
It makes all the 'lies' more confusing though. And it's interesting to note that she doesn't bring this up during the date with Dan and just continues with the 'lie'. Is it less painful? I guess a brother's suicide would be much more awkward to talk about than being banished...
:erk???
:dotdotdot
:redrum?
Sorry. I was so stunned I could only resort to silly pictures...
Perhaps Matilda blocked out the truth and convinced herself things went differently?
Sense with established canon this does not make. Confused I am.
.....I don't have any reaction to this page, except
Oh.....shit.
....
well, s**t.
So... she rips off her brother's arm, claims she dueled him (and killed him), makes what provisions she can for her sister, and then leaves as banished? or does she just run away, knowing what protection she had was gone?
I think Matilda is lying about it just because the cowardly betrayal of her brother (in the context of the BV mythos) was so jarring, she'd rather lie than face the shameful truth regarding her brother.
Talk about a curveball. That was... quite an interesting plot twist. For now, we can only wait for what Amber will think of next...
:tohell
Well......This kind of reminds me of the lines from the first minute and few seconds of the song "Under Pressure by Queens".
The dark setting from the previous page complements this page in all it's sad revelations. A very sad page. :cry
:twist
...WELL THEN!
THAT'S depressing as shit!
Between this and Min Max depression in Goblins...
WHELP!
i think i understand now.All the lies.
My theory is this.
She really loved her brother.what he has done would be seen as a cowards way out by the other mythos.Also her sister and she himself are now unprotected and two girls in one family is something frowned of as she explained.
So she Rips her brothers Arm off and tells are tale how she fighted him and killed him fully knowing that she would have to flee.In this she protects (kind of) her brothers Legacy as an unchallenged male and can also flee from a world where she would would take one of this oh-so-valuable crystal spots that was mentioned in the beginning.
And since they would only be one girl left ,her sister can be easily become a wife to a male of her choosing and in this Mathilda protected her sister too.
Also i think that she keeps on lying ,even to Dan, is kind of a protection for herself since this is the version she wants to be true.Sure´to other creatures she presented her brother as cruel but i guess from a Volcano mythos point of view that would be the only way it would make sense.
This is what i believe so far. On the other hand my theories were wrong sooo often in the past that i wouldn't count on it. :mowmeep
Well, it definitely looks like Heshi overre-acted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilev2hF5luc) to his whole situation. :redrum
I guess I was right about him running away, but wrong about how he did it.
A more interesting question is whether their blood is naturally black or if it's a different color and it turned black from exposure to the heat within the volcano.
... is that the pink shard Matilda was nomming on earlier?
Honestly, I was in quite a shock, after the picture finally downloaded, when I saw that Heshi had killed himself. I mean, I can understand the significant amount of pressure that he was under after his father died, but couldn't he have done something other than killing himself?
Quote from: HaDDea on November 15, 2013, 12:49:48 AM
....
well, s**t.
So... she rips off her brother's arm, claims she dueled him (and killed him), makes what provisions she can for her sister, and then leaves as banished? or does she just run away, knowing what protection she had was gone?
I think Matilda is lying about it just because the cowardly betrayal of her brother (in the context of the BV mythos) was so jarring, she'd rather lie than face the shameful truth regarding her brother.
Making a suicide look like something different has quite a bit of precedent in murder mysteries. ;)
Quote from: HoneyBadger on November 15, 2013, 10:02:35 AM
Honestly, I was in quite a shock, after the picture finally downloaded, when I saw that Heshi had killed himself. I mean, I can understand the significant amount of pressure that he was under after his father died, but couldn't he have done something other than killing himself?
Given his expression on this page (http://missmab.com/Comics/Ma_032.php), I'm not really that surprised.
It was that expression that led me to believe that he'd probably try to run away from all of this, but I didn't think he'd do something as drastic as suicide.
Also, I wish someone would have gotten him a tourniquet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSC0zQnLIWQ), but on the other hand that might not have helped since it looks like he probably stabbed himself in his torso.
My take is that this wasn't an act of depression, but a cold, calculated move for his sisters' welfare.
I think it was a selfish act, as is a lot of suicide. He only cared about how it was affecting him, without even trying to prepare them for what would happened next. He kept promising them until the end it was going to be okay. He discouraged them from finding mates when they had the power the choose.
Because whatever he did, he did for himself and not them.
Which is the only way Matilda's memories become true. If you look back, reading her reactions to seemingly opposite dialog, you see that she's sort of right. He must have really hated them to put them in this predicament.
And with father gone, he was finally free...to free himself from this situation in a coward's way.
You can say that if he had been defeated by another male it would have been harder for his sisters. But without Matilda (I'm assuming, but we'll see) having the idea to make it look like she defeated him, she wouldn't be treated like a male and able to make any choices for her sister.
But you know, the father doesn't get away without any blame. He could have provided a future for her daughters while he was alive, finding them decent husbands himself instead of trusting in a son that had never had to work in his life. The problem is, when you decide to break culture tradition for your children, you're putting all the pressure on them. You might be labeled a weirdo and some might respect you for it, but when you're not there, you've made your children's life so very hard.
My mind works in funny ways some times. Maybe I did too much D&D in the '90s.
But I'm wondering just how rapidly their bodies begin to decompose. If Matilda will try to move his body, and the arm just--comes off. Though since he's dead, her story of "beating him into submission" no longer works.
Quote from: seikueon on November 15, 2013, 12:49:20 PM
You can say that if he had been defeated by another male it would have been harder for his sisters. But without Matilda (I'm assuming, but we'll see) having the idea to make it look like she defeated him, she wouldn't be treated like a male and able to make any choices for her sister.
Hard to see it being worse for them...maybe worse for
one of them. Their family already had an excess female. Heshi having died without a mate, that potentially means they're both "excess", but since there are males who have an interest in them, and the interest seems to be mutual, the only way Heshi's death could be a problem is if there's some stigma attached to taking a female without fighting for her.
There remains the possibility of another brother. Perhaps a brother-in-law.
EDIT: And no, I'm not saying how likely that is, just that it's possible.
Uh oh. Suppose she flies into a rage and starts beating his corpse, Hishnai walks in and thinks she killed him?
Well considering what was said by that one male, I'm guessing that they would have shown very little compassion for Heshi or his sisters.
One male is a very easy target by a male ruled society driven by "the strong shall conquer the weak shall be trampled upon".
Could it be that Heshi saw what was coming and realized they were hosed?
Let's not forget that this is a "two female and one male born to a family" and not the usual "two males and one female born to a family". If I understand what has been said about their families to be correct, not only does that put strain on Heshi at a two to one disadvantage, but it could also come with serious problems for the youngest female to the family. Think about this, what if their fathers position wasn't only protecting Heshi or the family in general but also each and every member on an individual basis for different reasons?
I see a whole lot of talk about Heshi's suicide, and yeah, it definitely looks like he did himself in. But there's some stuff that Just Doesn't Add Up with this whole situation:
- This is a race that's bound by tribal and family honour and male rank challenges - not all of which was to the death.
- Heshi was obviously quite close to his father, and losing him was a massive blow, but...
- Heshi also cared about his sisters, quite the opposite of how Matilda depicted him.
Simply offing himself would dishonour his family and his father's memory, and leave his sisters totally at the mercy of the alpha males of the tribe, which doesn't jibe with any of those points. Far more likely, if he thought his death by challenge was inevitable, he'd find some way to go out so that his sisters would be protected. Throwing a match to the "right" male would be far more in character for this society then just randomly cutting his own throat in a blind cavern.
There's also the possibility that he was
murdered...not openly challenged and losing, but killed by treachery. As another poster has pointed out, it's not difficult to make a suicide look like a murder, but it's also possible to make a murder look like a suicide. But that, too, doesn't jive with the narrative arc of this society.
Alice in Wonderland was right. Curiouser and curiouser.
One question: are we sure he's dead?
That's what i was thinking. For all we know he could still be kicking for the moment, just really really hurt and in the middle of bleeding out.
Quote from: Mao on November 15, 2013, 05:11:59 PM
One question: are we sure he's dead?
He looks pretty dead; though if he was still alive, it would give either the murder or suicide ideas a further twist, since he was not meant to be found by his sister alive either way.
I'd say Amber tells a very good story, no matter what. I doubt many people saw the twist (whatever it turns out to be) coming, and all of this overlaid with Matilda's seriously skewed narration as a backdrop.
Quote from: Kirrin_Shadowclaw on November 15, 2013, 05:56:05 PM
That's what i was thinking. For all we know he could still be kicking for the moment, just really really hurt and in the middle of bleeding out.
Yeah, that is a possibility, especially considering some of his blood is still floating on the super hot lava like an oil slick when most substances would have dissolved and/or vaporized by now, which means that it's likely still fresh out of his body. On the other hand, we know nothing of the properties of their blood and how it fast it reacts and coagulates, especially within the extraordinarily hot environment they live in. Heck, it might not even be initially black when still inside their bodies, and we have no way of knowing whether what we're seeing is even still wet or the last remnant of what's already hardened/dissolved/vaporized from the exposure to the outside heat and fluids.
Also, there is already a significant amount of blood out. Judging by the size of the puddle relative to the size of his body, I'd say he's already bled out at least a couple of liters. On the other hand, given that he is a rather massive taur, his body probably holds at least 3 times the amount of blood found in an average adult human, if not more, so he might still have a significant amount inside him if what we're seeing is all he's bled out so far.
Unfortunately, even in the best case scenario, given what we've seen of their civilization's technology level, I doubt he'll be alive much longer. Even if he's cut himself on his limbs or another location where the bleeding could be staunched with tourniquets and/or properly applied pressure and his wounds could then be stitched or otherwise sealed shut, he only has a ghost (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgndSN32pgo) of a chance of survival.
And even if against all odds he manages to survive his attempted suicide, I doubt he'd live much longer after that. Given what we've seen of their culture so far, they probably don't look too kindly on males who attempt to commit suicide rather than dying honorably in battle, and he'd either end up being executed or at least banished, where in his weakened state he'd likely die from starvation, exposure, or another suicide attempt.
In conclusion, even if Heshi is still alive on this page, in the long run he's eventually going to die, and I doubt Amber is going to stretch the story and further strain her drawing hand by illustrating what would happen if he managed to survive his suicide attempt.
OK, I don't see the mystery here. The Narration of this story is pretty much the version of the story that Matilda has told even to Dan. While in the images themselves, we see what really happened. There was never a duel to the death, no fight over the usual "Mythos" customs, none of that. Matilda's old life shattered at point blank on this page. This might be a first in their Race's history, too.
Wow, I must say, I can see this tragic story as something that could really happen in real life. A younger sibbling losing much of their family members, and with little understanding for why did it happen. And so, she takes it upon the world, while repressing her real feelings. But it begs the question: How could Matilda live with herself after all this? My guess would be that, in Present Day DMFA, she kinda is a "Stepford Smiler" in the mildest sense. Eventually, she will either have to confront her people once more, or... she finally snaps.
:explosion
Quote from: Yarott on November 15, 2013, 08:09:16 PM
OK, I don't see the mystery here. The Narration of this story is pretty much the version of the story that Matilda has told even to Dan. While in the images themselves, we see what really happened. There was never a duel to the death, no fight over the usual "Mythos" customs, none of that. Matilda's old life shattered at point blank on this page. This might be a first in their Race's history, too.
All true; my point was that it didn't really make sense in character for Heshi to go out like what seems to be depicted. That's the source of the mystery:
his motivation. It doesn't make much sense, considering what he seemed to be.
Then, people quite often aren't what they seem, which may be the real lesson Matilda learned here. As the TVTropers would say, she just got a gigantic Broken Pedistal dropped right on her head.
Quote from: ArchTeryx on November 15, 2013, 08:50:14 PM
All true; my point was that it didn't really make sense in character for Heshi to go out like what seems to be depicted. That's the source of the mystery: his motivation. It doesn't make much sense, considering what he seemed to be.
Then, people quite often aren't what they seem, which may be the real lesson Matilda learned here. As the TVTropers would say, she just got a gigantic Broken Pedistal dropped right on her head.
I don't know, I agree the motivation lacked in how he acted-but his position in their society? Plenty of reason he felt trapped and wanted to escape. Pride for the males here might be a bigger deal in this culture. It may have been too much pressure to suddenly be this amazing Alpha that never fought a challenge in his life.
As for Matilda's narrative...I thought it over during work, there is possibly two ways it could be true: Her sister gets an awful husband and that's the brother who she never trusted and banished her (Tapewolf beat me to it!). Or: Her sister, being a third child that should have been male, decides to act like an Alpha male and becomes Matilda's "brother." Pretty silly, I know. :P
Well, that was unexpected. Though it makes sense in context.
Though it makes sense in two contexts.
Among the contexts this makes sense in...
1) He views his sisters as pets. Which is pretty much the depiction of Matilda's native culture throughout the whole arc.
Heshi father as probably his only real social interaction (chattel doesn't count) and given he has no chance of avoiding a painful, humiliating, and torturous death if he lives, this is a viable alternative.
2) He loves them and wants them to live. Normally the second girl is killed, and this is what everyone (in the tribe) thinks will happen as soon as 'father' dies. (Or hell, maybe they expect both to be killed? The whole family are heretics after all.) Perhaps Heshi is gambling that the death of two high ranking males will change the social-dynamics of the situation. Perhaps the tribe can't afford to kill potential mothers in this situation?
3) He hates the whole ####ing system, and the whole ####ing tribe for the whole matcho bull#### he's had to live with his whole life, and this is his way of vengeance. His actions might not only reflect upon himself or his family, but his tribe as well. "Really? Their leader's son topped himself?" The other tribes ask. "Wow! They must really be weak! Let's go take their crystal and kill their women and children!" :rolleyes
As to Canon? Well technically she still can tear his arm off. If she had shown more resourcefulness and gumption before now, then it would even make sense. Hishnai's reputation might be less damaged by Matilda 'murdering' her brother than by her brother committing suicide. Or if he's not dead, snap, and kill him, then go out and try and take his place. The others mock her for being a girl, not realising that, yes, in fact, she HAS just used that knife, and is in fact VERY willing to use it again.
Maybe we're over thinking this. At no point in the comic thus far has Heshi displayed much in the way of positive emotions. Maybe he was clinically depressed, and his father's death was the last straw.
And, yes, we can all criticize his suicide, but I don't think that would really be fair. When you're that low, you can't think very clearly. You just feel. Sometimes, you snap.
TL;DR: Most suicides (possibly to include Heshi) aren't selfish, or hateful, or cowardly. They are ill. The reasoning behind this act may be as simple as anyone else dying from an illness that was not/could not be properly treated.
Quote from: Grey Wolf on November 16, 2013, 12:54:39 PM
Maybe we're over thinking this. At no point in the comic thus far has Heshi displayed much in the way of positive emotions. Maybe he was clinically depressed, and his father's death was the last straw.
And, yes, we can all criticize his suicide, but I don't think that would really be fair. When you're that low, you can't think very clearly. You just feel. Sometimes, you snap.
TL;DR: Most suicides (possibly to include Heshi) aren't selfish, or hateful, or cowardly. They are ill. The reasoning behind this act may be as simple as anyone else dying from an illness that was not/could not be properly treated.
That doesn't change the implication that Matilda sees this particular suicide as a cruel act, done with no preparations or consideration for her and her sister.
If there's actual consequences for this suicide in BV culture, similar to old Indian (as in India) traditions of a wife throwing herself on her husband's funeral pyre (i.e. "Oh? Your alpha killed himself? Better go join him!"), then this IS a cruel act -- because the implication again is that if Heshi was defeated/killed in battle, Matilda and Hishnai would belong to the victor, whereas in an obvious suicide (as opposed to a thrown match), they're all dead. Either way Heshi dies, but only fighting secures the safety of his sisters.
Few things here... I don't remember Matilda ever mentioning in the main comic that her brother died, so it could be that she rips someone else's arm off. As for Heshi... I think he didn't like violence. He grew up in a protected family because of his father, so he never had to fight. And we see from earlier in the comic that he never did fight. I believe he thought that he'd rather do violence to himself rather than others, but I don't know how it protects his sisters. Something is obviously off from Matilda's narrative.
On the other hand, this could be long enough ago that the memories got lost in time and she made something up because she forgot why she left/was banished.
Quote from: tikitori on November 16, 2013, 12:48:02 AM
Quote from: ArchTeryx on November 15, 2013, 08:50:14 PM
All true; my point was that it didn't really make sense in character for Heshi to go out like what seems to be depicted. That's the source of the mystery: his motivation. It doesn't make much sense, considering what he seemed to be.
Then, people quite often aren't what they seem, which may be the real lesson Matilda learned here. As the TVTropers would say, she just got a gigantic Broken Pedistal dropped right on her head.
I don't know, I agree the motivation lacked in how he acted-but his position in their society? Plenty of reason he felt trapped and wanted to escape. Pride for the males here might be a bigger deal in this culture. It may have been too much pressure to suddenly be this amazing Alpha that never fought a challenge in his life.
As for Matilda's narrative...I thought it over during work, there is possibly two ways it could be true: Her sister gets an awful husband and that's the brother who she never trusted and banished her (Tapewolf beat me to it!). Or: Her sister, being a third child that should have been male, decides to act like an Alpha male and becomes Matilda's "brother." Pretty silly, I know. :P
OK, I must complain on why BOTH scenarios don't work. WARNING:MAY APPEAR TO BE A COMPLANITORY ESSAY. Also, this could possibly seem late due to the fact that I am always wrapped up in stuff (like Minecraft or discovering you can use your feet to play Fruit Ninja), so sorry.
First option: It doesn't work because Hishnai is not married yet and therefore, when their father died, her husband could not have been "free" because he is not her husband yet.
Second option: Hishnai is too meek and it is obvious that, now their father is dead, she feels a bit lost without Matilda, and therefore, along with being the younger (I suspect their system of hierarchy is based on oldest to youngest), she would never be considered by ANYONE to be the alpha. Also, as I stated above, her father died BEFORE her brother, and if Hishnai is planing to become "brother," then she still would not be "free" because she was not brother before. Also, Kissriss referred to the untrusted brother as "he" and I'm pretty sure that Hishnai would keep her status as "she."
Therefore,BOTH are flawed. I agree with you. It is pretty silly.
Quote from: joshofspam on November 15, 2013, 02:14:08 PM
One male is a very easy target by a male ruled society driven by "the strong shall concur the weak shall be trampled upon".
Had difficulty parsing this sentence until I figured out the error. So FYI,
"Conquer" = take by force
"Concur" = come to agreement
Quote from: Grey Wolf on November 16, 2013, 12:54:39 PM
Maybe we're over thinking this. At no point in the comic thus far has Heshi displayed much in the way of positive emotions. Maybe he was clinically depressed, and his father's death was the last straw.
And, yes, we can all criticize his suicide, but I don't think that would really be fair. When you're that low, you can't think very clearly. You just feel. Sometimes, you snap.
TL;DR: Most suicides (possibly to include Heshi) aren't selfish, or hateful, or cowardly. They are ill. The reasoning behind this act may be as simple as anyone else dying from an illness that was not/could not be properly treated.
That's certainly possible. I've been to the edge of that abyss myself; I know something about the motives of depressed/suicidal folks. In which case, everything narrowed down to a single point for poor Heshi: his anchor on sanity was gone, and he wasn't thinking about anything else.
In which case, I truly pity Matilda and her sister. It's going to be nothing but pain from here on out, but it may explain one crucial point: why she assumed the role of alpha male.
Silvis, just one thing about the Brother-in-Law theory: He most certainly wouldn't have been free until her father died. Let's say there's a horrible male that's been waiting to snatch up Hishnai as soon as her father dies. He wasn't free to challenge her brother until he died-their father wasn't only protecting Heshi, he was protecting his daughters as well. And we already know from even Kashi that Heshi wasn't considered a challenge.
But I actually really hope Matilda is actually lying. It would bring a lot of character to this happy down-to-earth shopkeeper that Dan likes.
Quote from: Icalasari on November 15, 2013, 04:13:16 AM
...WELL THEN!
THAT'S depressing as shit!
Between this and Min Max depression in Goblins...
WHELP!
YES! why are these artists bombarding us with feels?
Quote from: Felix on November 17, 2013, 10:52:08 PM
YES! why are these artists bombarding us with feels?
End of the year, many of us are behind on our sad quota so we gotta get those last few feels out before filing our tear tax forms. :|
Quote from: Amber Williams on November 17, 2013, 10:59:26 PM
Quote from: Felix on November 17, 2013, 10:52:08 PM
YES! why are these artists bombarding us with feels?
End of the year, many of us are behind on our sad quota so we gotta get those last few feels out before filing our tear tax forms. :|
Those accountants are monsters! :crying Honestly, there aren't enough emoes to express sadness about what happened. I even lost an uncle due to a similar situation. Just...
:over
Heshi....
Wow..... just..... wow.....
I'll be in this corner over here, with my hot cocoa and my teddy bear :crying
QuoteGiven his expression on this page (http://missmab.com/Comics/Ma_032.php), I'm not really that surprised.
It was that expression that led me to believe that he'd probably try to run away from all of this, but I didn't think he'd do something as drastic as suicide.
Also, I wish someone would have gotten him a tourniquet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSC0zQnLIWQ), but on the other hand that might not have helped since it looks like he probably stabbed himself in his torso.
Do you that Heshi could gone to some...I don't know...somebody that he trusted very well and confide in them about how he was really feeling? Well...scratch that. Since the society was more focused on strong males and defending their territory, plus no one liking Heshi, I don't think he could have in the first place. So never-mind.
Another question has been pestering me off and on lately, but has anyone wondered where Matilda's and her siblings' mother is or if she is still even alive?
I've noticed that on Matilda's profile on the DMFA Wikia - Here: http://dmfa.wikia.com/wiki/Matilda_Kissriss
-in the Miscellaneous Information, that it mentions that she has a Mother. Does anyone get where I'm going with this?
Quote from: HoneyBadger on November 21, 2013, 10:01:28 AM
Another question has been pestering me off and on lately, but has anyone wondered where Matilda's and her siblings' mother is or if she is still even alive?
I've noticed that on Matilda's profile on the DMFA Wikia - Here: http://dmfa.wikia.com/wiki/Matilda_Kissriss
-in the Miscellaneous Information, that it mentions that she has a Mother. Does anyone get where I'm going with this?
well, I have no idea who wrote that up or how long ago it was written, but until we see them, I imagine that Kissriss' family may need a bit of an update. I don't know how fleshed out Matilda's background was in Amber's mind at the time that page was composed. the fact that there are three sisters and only one brother is really in contravention of what we've been recently been told (though the fact that Matilda was on the phone with someone in an earlier comic may indicate that her sister is also in exile or that she has additional family in exile somehow).
[/quote]
well, I have no idea who wrote that up or how long ago it was written, but until we see them, I imagine that Kissriss' family may need a bit of an update. I don't know how fleshed out Matilda's background was in Amber's mind at the time that page was composed. the fact that there are three sisters and only one brother is really in contravention of what we've been recently been told (though the fact that Matilda was on the phone with someone in an earlier comic may indicate that her sister is also in exile or that she has additional family in exile somehow).
[/quote]
Wow...all of this is just killing my head right now, but I do agree with you about Matilda's history of her family being updates BIIG TIME.
The entire cast page section has been in a dire need of an overhaul. Don't take anything said in them for anything of value in the meantime.
Will do, Amber.