The Clockwork Mansion

Wow.

I mean, not entirely unexpected, but Dee was spectacularly brutal about it, there.


(And Ma~ is adorable, as usual)

Ugghhhhhgggghhh!. *Epic facepalm*

She is going to absolutely lose the complete and total respect of her own son let alone his love... fantastic...

Okay so now it does really ask what that feather is going to mean if it is Destanias.

Quote from: Dressari on January 27, 2013, 11:10:50 PM
Ugghhhhhgggghhh!. *Epic facepalm*

She is going to absolutely lose the complete and total respect of her own son let alone his love... fantastic...

Okay so now it does really ask what that feather is going to mean if it is Destanias.

Because we all know that's the most important thing out there </sarcasm>
Ah well, i think seems like she miscalculated on him staying put in the academy . . . though, what worries me is that given it was an explicit arrangement that he'd be switching back and forth, if he was back home during the time of the hit, it'd mean her information channels aren't quite flowing.

 :erk

"Cold" indeed.  "Snapped" indeed.  After she raised her from a small child, met her so cordially before, gave Pyroduck her feather... it all just seems so totally... unlike...

>:3 Oh, I see...

Quote from: Dressari on January 27, 2013, 11:10:50 PM
Ugghhhhhgggghhh!. *Epic facepalm*

She is going to absolutely lose the complete and total respect of her own son let alone his love... fantastic...

Okay so now it does really ask what that feather is going to mean if it is Destanias.

This. Perhaps before the war, Dee was a bit more friendly towards the dragon race?

Either way, Destania just earned herself at least three new enemies..

Oh holy shoes. I mean, not totally unexpected, but....yeesh. That is brutal. I am curious about what powers Biggs has...and OMG Matlida is so adorable! Saves the page from being a total gut punch.

And three, D'ymkarra? Dan, Alexsi, Wildy? Pyroduck? Biggs? Abel? Lorenda? Jyrras? Maybe even Kria...

Quote from: D'ymkarra on January 27, 2013, 11:20:12 PM
Either way, Destania just earned herself three new enemies..

Yes, because there are only three people in Lost Lake that would choose Alexi over Destania after the latter expressed a desire for the former to die.

Ouch!

She knows about Alexsi and Ducky and isn't pleased. She even knows about Ducky and Fa'lina. That rage train Destania is riding certainly going for one heck of a train wreck if Dan and friends find out.

I'm not sure if I like how she's gradually closing the drape. Hope for Biggs sake, that Destania isn't thinking about doing what Keaton did to Ashford in Project Future.

Quote from: joshofspam on January 27, 2013, 11:24:41 PM
Ouch!

She knows about Alexsi and Ducky and isn't pleased. She even knows about Ducky and Fa'lina. That rage train Destania is riding certainly going for one heck of a train wreck if Dan and friends find out.

I'm not sure if I like how she's gradually closing the drape. Hope for Biggs sake, that Destania isn't thinking about doing what Keaton did to Ashford in Project Future.

She....wants privacy?

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 27, 2013, 11:21:18 PM
Oh holy shoes. I mean, not totally unexpected, but....yeesh. That is brutal. I am curious about what powers Biggs has...and OMG Matlida is so adorable! Saves the page from being a total gut punch.

And three, D'ymkarra? Dan, Alexsi, Wildy? Pyroduck? Biggs? Abel? Lorenda? Jyrras? Maybe even Kria...

Yeah I have to agree with Zebra Bug here. Three is undercutting it. And I doubt there is going to be any excuse Destania will be able to come up with now that will save face.

Here's another one and potentially the most important one... Edward...

Edward...O_O Yes. Well...if he is currently prisoner of the dragons, if they'd tortured him...he may...not...forgive Alexsi for taking up with one. Depending on if they break him or not. Otherwise, yeah...he won't appreciate Des killing his daughter.

Quote from: joshofspam on January 27, 2013, 11:24:41 PM
Ouch!

She knows about Alexsi and Ducky and isn't pleased. She even knows about Ducky and Fa'lina. That rage train Destania is riding certainly going for one heck of a train wreck if Dan and friends find out.

I'm not sure if I like how she's gradually closing the drape. Hope for Biggs sake, that Destania isn't thinking about doing what Keaton did to Ashford in Project Future.

Biggs isn't so stupid as to push matters to such degree, and he's valuable enough ,and probably made himself valuable enough to merit not being replaced. Otherwise she'd have done it ages ago.

I have the feeling that the scene is going to be changing either this next page or the page after.

Yikes, Dee. Just yikes.

How to go from Unlikeable to Hated in 2 seconds flat.


I'm beginning to wonder how much she really cares about Edward if she is so willing to consider his daughter as expendable. Even more so considering she did it just to settle an old grudge against Aniz.

And... why is she closing the curtains? That looks all sorts of ominous to me.

Quote from: Wanderer on January 28, 2013, 12:10:07 AM
And... why is she closing the curtains? That looks all sorts of ominous to me.

Because she is evil?

Ohhhh Crud...I can just see Destania getting a LOT of pain her way if Jyras ever figures out who sent those adventurers to Lost Lake.  :mwaha

'eh, so i lost a child, i can always make another one later'

You know, a friend of mine and I were debating a few days ago over whether or not Destania was crazy and quite possibly genuinely evil. That she is willing to write off her adopted child that she raised and loved and who probably still loves her stepmom to death... wow. That's like... ice icing over cold.

Quote from: Brunhidden on January 28, 2013, 12:41:26 AM
'eh, so i lost a child, i can always make another one later'

Well, Alexsi wasn't even her kid, so even less emotional attachment....even if she DID raise Alexsi...teach her to fight...was called mom by her...

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 27, 2013, 11:21:18 PM
That is brutal. I am curious about what powers Biggs has...

We've been getting a lot of hints, a lot of foreshadowing, that Biggs is not just a simple being. For a long time now, there's been quite a bit of subtle clues here and there that point to Wildy and Biggs both being Weres. (The biggest evidence towards this is here (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_366.php), and though some think that particular shadow isn't Biggs because it doesn't match exactly, well, we know now that the fae in that image is definitely Albanion, though his silhouette there looks a bit different from his later appearance, it was just a change in the art.)

This also goes a long way towards explaining both why Destania is allied with him in the first place, and also partially why Biggs puts on a show of acting dumb most of the time except for here when he lets his true intelligence shine. And if Biggs really is the Were on the Creature Council himself, then he most definitely would be a formidable combatant who could likely hold his own against even Destiania, making the result of an outright confrontation between the two in no ways guaranteed either way.

That said, I have no doubt the -both- of them also have "contingency plans" and/or kept-hidden powers of their own to deal with each other should an alliance no longer prove mutually beneficial. (It also might even wind up to be a 'gabit pileup' of the "I knew you'd betray me, so I (did X thing to subvert you)." "Aha! I knew you'd do X, so I (did Y that would negate X)" "But I knew you would do that, so I..." and so forth.)

All that said, I think that despite the heating-up of the apparent "cold war" between Biggs and Destania, I don't think either of them are going to try and break off just yet. It would be too much of a mess for the both of them, I expect.


(I've also been finding Destania herself to be very strange in her actions, but I'll compose my thoughts on that another time.)

If that were true...do you think Wildy knows she is Were?

I don't see any reason why she wouldn't...I'm quite sure she's a "Were-in-hiding" just like Biggs is. She also has displayed clear ability to use magic (outside of that 'shaman' thing) when she sparred with Dan (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1168.php). While I'll admit that alone isn't concrete confirmation, it is supporting circumstantial evidence. (according to the demonology (http://www.missmab.com/Demo/were.php), weres have a fairly typical controlled spellcasting ability in 'being' form. They only get antimagic in human form, and uber-wild-magic in animal form.)

Quote from: Wanderer on January 28, 2013, 12:10:07 AM
And... why is she closing the curtains? That looks all sorts of ominous to me.

Yeah, I'm still rather worried about Biggs at this time, especially given how Destania just openly admitted her willingness to sacrifice her own daughter to accomplish her goals.

I'll admit that their relationship (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_724.php) seems more positive than the one between Keaton and Ashford (http://projectfuturecomic.com/strip.php?strip=81), since Biggs seems more competent than Ashford (although I do wonder sometimes (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_713.php)) and he has the same goals as Destania (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_726.php).  There also have been some hints that Biggs could be a were, which would make him more than just a being and possibly more likable and less expendable than she considers beings to be.

However, we've seen that Destania certainly has no qualms about impersonating Biggs behind his back and defy not only his wishes, but his direct orders in this case.  That jovial conversation (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_724.php) with Biggs could have just been an act, as she obviously likes it better when he's a complacent drunken idiot (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1372.php) and not stepping in her way like he's doing now.

At this point I think could go either way, as I haven't seen much extended interaction between Biggs and Destania aside from the Get me to the Church arc and right now.  But I still agree that things are looking ominous right now, and even if Biggs is a were and can hold his own against Destania, a fight between could still get rather ugly.

But either way, at this point, Destania has hit an all time low in my book.  I mean, for a while I've had a feeling that she didn't really love Alexsi like she loved Dan, since she's not blood related and she's only a being, but dropping her so suddenly and coldly like this still shocked me.  It makes me wonder if she feels the same way about Edward, despite being worried about him (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_726.php), although that too could have been an act and it could be that she really only sees Edward as a tool for procreation and a pawn in her scheme to eliminate the dragon race from Furrae.  She isn't the first cubi to look down on beings, so this wouldn't surprise me.

If she ever states that she never truly loved her own son, her progeny and part of her clan, a life she had growing within her for around 9 months, then she will truly be irredeemable in my mind, although she's coming pretty close right now.  The way she's behaving now once again makes me question how much of her past behavior was actually authentic.

Quote from: techmaster-glitch on January 28, 2013, 01:01:28 AM
That said, I have no doubt the -both- of them also have "contingency plans" and/or kept-hidden powers of their own to deal with each other should an alliance no longer prove mutually beneficial. (It also might even wind up to be a 'gabit pileup' of the "I knew you'd betray me, so I (did X thing to subvert you)." "Aha! I knew you'd do X, so I (did Y that would negate X)" "But I knew you would do that, so I..." and so forth.)

Careful now, that's starting to sound like a plot from Death Note. >:3

EDIT:

Quote from: techmaster-glitch on January 28, 2013, 01:23:01 AM
I don't see any reason why she wouldn't...I'm quite sure she's a "Were-in-hiding" just like Biggs is. She also has displayed clear ability to use magic (outside of that 'shaman' thing) when she sparred with Dan (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1168.php). While I'll admit that alone isn't concrete confirmation, it is supporting circumstantial evidence. (according to the demonology (http://www.missmab.com/Demo/were.php), weres have a fairly typical controlled spellcasting ability in 'being' form. They only get antimagic in human form, and uber-wild-magic in animal form.)

If she is a were, or if her brother is a were, it might explain her obsession with humans (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_251.php).  I do agree that if one of them really is a were, then it's highly likely that the other is a were as well, since the were trait is dominant (http://www.missmab.com/Demo/HG03.php) among less magically inclined races, particularly beings, so all children their were parent had with their being parent would likely be weres.

Quote from: techmaster-glitch on January 28, 2013, 01:01:28 AM
That said, I have no doubt the -both- of them also have "contingency plans" and/or kept-hidden powers of their own to deal with each other should an alliance no longer prove mutually beneficial. (It also might even wind up to be a 'gabit pileup' of the "I knew you'd betray me, so I (did X thing to subvert you)." "Aha! I knew you'd do X, so I (did Y that would negate X)" "But I knew you would do that, so I..." and so forth.)

Ugh. Reminds me of a book I read where there were a bunch of different competing groups, all of whom had seers on their side. As the viewpoint jumped from seer to seer, each one would talk about the others and how they knew all about the others' plans and had their own plans all set up to deal with them, and then the next one would be all "oh, but I know all about those plans to deal with my plans but I have plans to deal with the plans that deal with my plans" and the next one has plans to deal with those plans and so on in this weird endless circle where everyone has apparently always known what everyone else was doing and has always been prepared to deal with everyone else and has always made sure that they're going to end up winning and it gave me a headache after a while.

Quote
Yeah, I'm still rather worried about Biggs at this time, especially given how Destania just openly admitted her willingness to sacrifice her own daughter to accomplish her goals.

Amber seems to have gone on this "darker and edgier" kick lately (lately being relative) by taking characters who were mildly or amusingly evil in the past and removing any potentially redeeming qualities they may have had. It can, of course, be argued that they were always this way and we simply didn't know them well enough, but some of them went for years without undergoing that sort of grimmification. It does make me wonder sometimes what she's planning on doing with DMFA...

...who, other than Dee?  DP and Regina seem to have gotten sillier, if anything... Kria's as silly-evil as always... it's pretty much been forgotten that Aary used to be a connoisseur of Being souls... the BOB are more of a threat now, but still hard to take too seriously...

Quote from: Lying Foo on January 28, 2013, 02:01:06 AM
DP and Regina seem to have gotten sillier, if anything...

Depends on your point of view, I guess.

Quote from: ChaosMageX on January 28, 2013, 01:24:49 AM
But either way, at this point, Destania has hit an all time low in my book.  I mean, for a while I've had a feeling that she didn't really love Alexsi like she loved Dan, since she's not blood related and she's only a being, but dropping her so suddenly and coldly like this still shocked me.

It's possible that she did up to the point Alexsi went off with Pyroduck, after all, Alexsi got Destania's special training and even the Inn itself.  Destania may have taken it as a smack in the face from her stepdaughter, even though Alexsi had little idea of what she was getting herself into and that Pyroduck's goals seem to run counter to the dragon race as a whole.

That said, I always hope for the best from evil characters, and it's possible that Destania is exaggerating in front of Biggs, but I'm not sure Destania is redeemable at this point.

EDIT:

Quote from: Lying Foo on January 28, 2013, 02:01:06 AM
it's pretty much been forgotten that Aary used to be a connoisseur of Being souls...

At the time the narrative seemed to be that most 'Cubi were soul-stealing monsters and Dan was different because he was brought up as a Being.  From that well Keaton was drawn, along with other fan characters, even Jakob was intended to be in the 'brought up as a Being' mould.
Over time the viewpoint seems to me to have shifted to something more like 'Cubi being okay-ish as a rule and it's mostly just maniacs like Destania and her friends who cause trouble.

Quote from: ChaosMageX on January 28, 2013, 01:24:49 AM
But either way, at this point, Destania has hit an all time low in my book.  I mean, for a while I've had a feeling that she didn't really love Alexsi like she loved Dan, since she's not blood related and she's only a being, but dropping her so suddenly and coldly like this still shocked me.  It makes me wonder if she feels the same way about Edward, despite being worried about him (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_726.php), although that too could have been an act and it could be that she really only sees Edward as a tool for procreation and a pawn in her scheme to eliminate the dragon race from Furrae.  She isn't the first cubi to look down on beings, so this wouldn't surprise me.

Because of how fast Destania and Edward went from strangers to married I figured it was not just because Cubi experience emotions a lot stronger, but also because Edward is being credited as Aniz's killer. If they spoke together and the topic landed on the cubi Aniz (which wouldn't be surprising with how much Destania hates his guts) it wouldn't take long for Edward to mention his previous wive was killed while they fought and killed a cubi with the same name. Probably because Aniz wanted to kill Edward to pull the same scheme as in Abel's story again.
Once Destania found out Edward killed Aniz I can imagine any feelings she had for him would skyrocket. And if we can believe Abel, once you get close to a cubi's heart you won't have a more loyal friend/lover anywhere.

While reading though the thread and the debate if the san-siblings are were I noticed something and wondered if anyone connected these dots before.
Biggs mentions Destania has been a friend of the family for generations (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_726.php) and they are working together to the goal of killing all dragons.
In the Hybrid Genetics (http://www.missmab.com/Demo/HG03.php) page for the weres, Fluffy mentions that the weres are, as a race, only close to beings, phoenix and cubi. And more importantly, the weres were once nearly wiped out by another race. The only races that would be powerful and 'evil' enough, as far as we know, to pull this off are the demons, and the dragons who nearly did this to the cubi as well.
So if we put this together, as well as the things other people mentioned, I think things are pointing to Biggs being a were that is working with a cubi, Destania, to take revenge for both their races nearly getting wiped out.

Make me wonder if Dan is just a way to continue the bloodline, like Abel.

There is also the cubi getting caught up in emotions thing, angry at he failure to kill Abel, she can't see anything else but anger, not the potential guilt for nearly getting her husbands daughter killed, not the fact she may end up estranged for her clan (Dan and Cyra).

You know... I think the biological waste product just hit the rotating propeller blades...

I see the road that Des is going to go down... and it's not going to end in a happy place. Right now, the only thing that keeps her from being an active threat to literally everything in existence is her obsession with dragons and saving Edward. If she kills Alexis, and Edward finds out and is revolted... she's gonna go off the deep end.

And when that happens... Dan will likely feel like it's his obligation and duty to put her down himself. That... won't end well either.

Jyrras is the wild card here. Personally, not too threatening. But his toys... all those wonderful toys. They have the potential, particularly if he does end up with making 100% magic-free materials which are magic-immune, to turn the tide. Assuming he survives long enough. He's also got the friendship card to play to keep Dan from falling off the deep end himself if he DOES end up squaring off against his own mother.

And there's no one... not a single entity other than *maybe* Edward or Dan... she won't ruthlessly kill if their hassle exceeds their usefulness.

Quote from: Prroul on January 28, 2013, 09:26:53 AM
You know... I think the biological waste product just hit the rotating propeller blades...

I see the road that Des is going to go down... and it's not going to end in a happy place. Right now, the only thing that keeps her from being an active threat to literally everything in existence is her obsession with dragons and saving Edward. If she kills Alexis, and Edward finds out and is revolted... she's gonna go off the deep end.

Uh, what? That's ass-backwards.
She has a clear goal, exterminating the dragon race. If someone stands in way of it, especially if they appear to have allied themselves with the dragons and thus, in her eyes, betrayed their family, they are an acceptable casualty in the process.
Mainly because the dragons were and might well will be responsible for a good few times that, and they aren't stupid sort of a foe, so. . . if some losses can't be avoided then one has to grind their teeth and push along.

So, apparently Destania has gone so 'Fantastic Racist' about Dragons that merely associating with a single dragon who's shown no indication of being hostile to Cubi is as far as Destania is concerned a 'moral event-horizon' offense.

Yep, dat Cubi is Coo-coo as Coco-puffs.

Is Destania aware that Pyroduck would rather fight for the cubi(Fa'lina) than the dragons or she that stupid or evil?

Quote from: demecowen on January 28, 2013, 11:04:03 AM
Is Destania aware that Pyroduck would rather fight for the cubi(Fa'lina) than the dragons or she that stupid or evil?

The method she has in mind to use on the Dragons as a race may not be sufficiently easily aimed as to avoid collateral damage. In other words, she might just have to shoot Pyroduck because the gun she's using is so big she can't miss him.

Which is all a bit interesting.

Or it could be Destania just doesn't care.  For her, Dragons not only wiped out a whole lotta Cubi clans, almost wiped-out her own, but also wiped-out her lover's clan and drove him insane. 

She's probably a bit bitter.

Even if Biggs does have some kind of anti-magic, that just makes him unaffected by spells; it doens't make him immune to being slashed into 7 pieces by razor thin wing-tentacles...So the implication he can still go toe-to-toe with Mrs. Batty O'Holocaubus (or at least, beat his sister in a fight) does make him a little scarier...But I'd still say Dee would come out on top of a fight between Biggs and her.

I'd almost ask why Destania didn't have a little face on her tentacle but that wouldn't really help close the curtain....would be different if she was makign coffee, I'm sure.
~K. *: )

Quote from: VAE on January 28, 2013, 10:30:58 AM

Quote from: Prroul on January 28, 2013, 09:26:53 AM
You know... I think the biological waste product just hit the rotating propeller blades...

I see the road that Des is going to go down... and it's not going to end in a happy place. Right now, the only thing that keeps her from being an active threat to literally everything in existence is her obsession with dragons and saving Edward. If she kills Alexis, and Edward finds out and is revolted... she's gonna go off the deep end.

Uh, what? That's ass-backwards.
She has a clear goal, exterminating the dragon race. If someone stands in way of it, especially if they appear to have allied themselves with the dragons and thus, in her eyes, betrayed their family, they are an acceptable casualty in the process.
Mainly because the dragons were and might well will be responsible for a good few times that, and they aren't stupid sort of a foe, so. . . if some losses can't be avoided then one has to grind their teeth and push along.

No, it's much worse than that.

Her crusade against dragons is the only thing keeping her *FOCUSED* on Dragons and not against any available target. Other than Edward and Dan, she literally has no reason to NOT just go on a murderous rampage, killing everything in sight.

Her current fantasy-obsession is that she can rescue Edward, kill all the evil nasty dragons, show back up and live a happy life with Dan without any of those pesky interruptions.

Unfortunately, it isn't going to work out that way, particularly not if she ends up killing off Alexis along the way. And when she realizes that this fantasy-obsession is not obtainable... there is no other reason for her to NOT go on a murderous rampage until someone or something stops her.

Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 28, 2013, 11:08:36 AM

Quote from: demecowen on January 28, 2013, 11:04:03 AM
Is Destania aware that Pyroduck would rather fight for the cubi(Fa'lina) than the dragons or she that stupid or evil?

The method she has in mind to use on the Dragons as a race may not be sufficiently easily aimed as to avoid collateral damage. In other words, she might just have to shoot Pyroduck because the gun she's using is so big she can't miss him.

Which is all a bit interesting.

That might not necessarily be the case.  What's interesting is that she used the word pet to refer to Pyroduck, when she could have used adopted or another word.  This could mean that Destania looks down on Pyroduck as a non-sentient lower life form.  Now, it isn't surprising for cubi to view beings this way, since they might see them as nothing more than a food source, but entities as powerful as dragons are a whole different matter.

Quote from: Les on January 28, 2013, 10:42:43 AM
So, apparently Destania has gone so 'Fantastic Racist' about Dragons that merely associating with a single dragon who's shown no indication of being hostile to Cubi is as far as Destania is concerned a 'moral event-horizon' offense.

Yep, dat Cubi is Coo-coo as Coco-puffs.

If Destania does indeed view Pyroduck as an animal, incapable of sentience, could this view extend to all the other dragons, even the more powerful ones?  If so, then I agree with you that her racism has crossed the line beyond bigotry and into psychosis.

I think Destania used the word 'Pet' more as a pejorative than a descriptive.   Though I doubt she literally sees Pyroduck as a non-sapient animal, she does probably see him not as his own valid individual person.. and Hizell likewise sees Cubi that way.  It's a common affectation among cultures capable of sustained generational feuding.

"I don't care who you are, What you are is an extension of your great-great-great-great-granwhatever that pissed-off my great-great-great-great-granwhatever all that helluvalongtimeago."

Quote from: joshofspam on January 27, 2013, 11:24:41 PM
I'm not sure if I like how she's gradually closing the drape. Hope for Biggs sake, that Destania isn't thinking about doing what Keaton did to Ashford in Project Future.

I highly doubt that she'll go all Keaton on Biggs. It's already been made fairly clear that Destania doesn't like him at all, yes; however, on that note, it must also be mentioned that she's made it obvious that she is only working for him to have access to his resources. After all, Biggs is the leader of the entire Twink territories (T.T. for simplicity). Dee knows that if she were to kill him, she wouldn't be able to (or, more likely, wouldn't want to) maintain control of the T.T. for very long, and that having to act as Biggs would ultimately draw her away from her actual goal of finding Ed. Add to that the inevitable incursion of ferretty wrath and it's safe to say that Destania won't go down that path.

P.S.
+1 cookies tacos to Amber for the Foreigner reference.

Quote from: Prroul on January 28, 2013, 12:02:31 PM

Quote from: VAE on January 28, 2013, 10:30:58 AM

Quote from: Prroul on January 28, 2013, 09:26:53 AM
You know... I think the biological waste product just hit the rotating propeller blades...

I see the road that Des is going to go down... and it's not going to end in a happy place. Right now, the only thing that keeps her from being an active threat to literally everything in existence is her obsession with dragons and saving Edward. If she kills Alexis, and Edward finds out and is revolted... she's gonna go off the deep end.

Uh, what? That's ass-backwards.
She has a clear goal, exterminating the dragon race. If someone stands in way of it, especially if they appear to have allied themselves with the dragons and thus, in her eyes, betrayed their family, they are an acceptable casualty in the process.
Mainly because the dragons were and might well will be responsible for a good few times that, and they aren't stupid sort of a foe, so. . . if some losses can't be avoided then one has to grind their teeth and push along.

No, it's much worse than that.

Her crusade against dragons is the only thing keeping her *FOCUSED* on Dragons and not against any available target. Other than Edward and Dan, she literally has no reason to NOT just go on a murderous rampage, killing everything in sight.

Her current fantasy-obsession is that she can rescue Edward, kill all the evil nasty dragons, show back up and live a happy life with Dan without any of those pesky interruptions.

Unfortunately, it isn't going to work out that way, particularly not if she ends up killing off Alexis along the way. And when she realizes that this fantasy-obsession is not obtainable... there is no other reason for her to NOT go on a murderous rampage until someone or something stops her.

*facepaw*
Quite done with that psychoanalysis yet, Herr Doktor?
Once again, arse backwards. Have you perhaps realized that she's intent on killing the dragons because of what they have done to her race, and her clan specifically ,and due to the danger they pose for the future? That , you know, usually reasons are needed , for indiscriminate killing, even?
Destania is not an idiot, and while I grant you the occassional murder of someone pissing her off, or simply to enjoy their pain (probably one of the reasons she's Biggs's enforcer) , I don't really see why, if there weren't the dragons, she'd go on a random murderous rampage, because she'd achieve nothing significant by it, and doesn't appear either short of means or of time to do things properly.

Also, where have you taken from that exterminating the dragons is something not obtainable? Granted, they are powerful, but then so are tri-wings and plenty of those have died - as the quote from Vlad Taltos goes, no matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between his shoulderblades will seriously cramp his style. If anything is likely to happen to her, it's dying to a planning oversight somewhere on the way, but even then I'd be somewhat disappointed if contingencies didn't include a way to take Hizell at least with her.

Quote from: Jairus on January 28, 2013, 12:44:06 AM
You know, a friend of mine and I were debating a few days ago over whether or not Destania was crazy and quite possibly genuinely evil. That she is willing to write off her adopted child that she raised and loved and who probably still loves her stepmom to death... wow. That's like... ice icing over cold.

It's Frieza-level cold!

Frieza:  Oh everyone's always on about tyhe children!  I tried sparing them, but then they just grew up under my rule or came back for revenge... usually both.  Honestly, killing them is a kindness.  I can rescind that kindness, but then who's the villain?

Goku: Y-you are.

Frieze:  No, no.  That was a rhetorical question.

Goku:  And I gave you a rhetorical answer! 

:P

Quote from: VAE on January 28, 2013, 12:45:39 PM

Quote from: Prroul on January 28, 2013, 12:02:31 PM

Quote from: VAE on January 28, 2013, 10:30:58 AM

Quote from: Prroul on January 28, 2013, 09:26:53 AM
You know... I think the biological waste product just hit the rotating propeller blades...

I see the road that Des is going to go down... and it's not going to end in a happy place. Right now, the only thing that keeps her from being an active threat to literally everything in existence is her obsession with dragons and saving Edward. If she kills Alexis, and Edward finds out and is revolted... she's gonna go off the deep end.

Uh, what? That's ass-backwards.
She has a clear goal, exterminating the dragon race. If someone stands in way of it, especially if they appear to have allied themselves with the dragons and thus, in her eyes, betrayed their family, they are an acceptable casualty in the process.
Mainly because the dragons were and might well will be responsible for a good few times that, and they aren't stupid sort of a foe, so. . . if some losses can't be avoided then one has to grind their teeth and push along.

No, it's much worse than that.

Her crusade against dragons is the only thing keeping her *FOCUSED* on Dragons and not against any available target. Other than Edward and Dan, she literally has no reason to NOT just go on a murderous rampage, killing everything in sight.

Her current fantasy-obsession is that she can rescue Edward, kill all the evil nasty dragons, show back up and live a happy life with Dan without any of those pesky interruptions.

Unfortunately, it isn't going to work out that way, particularly not if she ends up killing off Alexis along the way. And when she realizes that this fantasy-obsession is not obtainable... there is no other reason for her to NOT go on a murderous rampage until someone or something stops her.

*facepaw*
Quite done with that psychoanalysis yet, Herr Doktor?

Oh hey, and with the personal attacks as well... aren't you just a sweetie?

QuoteOnce again, arse backwards. Have you perhaps realized that she's intent on killing the dragons because of what they have done to her race, and her clan specifically ,and due to the danger they pose for the future? That , you know, usually reasons are needed , for indiscriminate killing, even?

Destania is not an idiot, and while I grant you the occassional murder of someone pissing her off, or simply to enjoy their pain (probably one of the reasons she's Biggs's enforcer) , I don't really see why, if there weren't the dragons, she'd go on a random murderous rampage, because she'd achieve nothing significant by it, and doesn't appear either short of means or of time to do things properly.

Ahem... "Some people just want to watch the world burn..."

Des... just might very well be at that point.

QuoteAlso, where have you taken from that exterminating the dragons is something not obtainable? Granted, they are powerful, but then so are tri-wings and plenty of those have died - as the quote from Vlad Taltos goes, no matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between his shoulderblades will seriously cramp his style. If anything is likely to happen to her, it's dying to a planning oversight somewhere on the way, but even then I'd be somewhat disappointed if contingencies didn't include a way to take Hizell at least with her.

Again, you misunderstand.

I never once stated that killing all the dragons is not obtainable. I said that her fantasy-obsession of killing all dragons, rescuing Edward, and living with Ed and Dan happily and uninterrupted is not obtainable. Sure, she's got the power to kill off a good number of dragons, with Biggs and his crew in her hip pocket, should probably have what it takes to take them all down...

But I *seriously* doubt that, even if she IS able to successfully rescue him (they may well decide to simply kill Ed when Des goes on her killing spree unless she can manage a time-on-target hit on every single dragon in existence, which is exponentially more difficult).

And assuming she can manage that, her fantasy that Dan will have anything to do with a genocidal sociopath who killed off (at the least) Pryoduck... is not in touch with reality. Or, for that matter, that Edward would. And if Alexis is killed in the process... all bets are off on both accounts.

And when her last hope of happiness is ruined... yes, I think 'making the world burn' is definitely on the agenda.

But hey, this is all pure speculation. It's not like either of us know what is in store here. But getting so worked up over speculation on a web-comic? Might want to take a step back and chill a bit.

Quote from: Prroul on January 28, 2013, 03:46:42 PM
I never once stated that killing all the dragons is not obtainable. I said that her fantasy-obsession of killing all dragons, rescuing Edward, and living with Ed and Dan happily and uninterrupted is not obtainable.

It's not clear she has plans after killing or otherwise expelling the dragons. She may not have thought that far ahead, and it's not clear that she sees Dan as much more than a way to make the clan bigger.

She may not want Edward back either, come to that.  We can't really trust that what she told Biggs was the truth.

We gotta remember the Destania's long term goals, and how Alexsi really doesn't factor into them one bit.

The most simple reason for this is being vs cubi lifespan, beings (including Alexsi as far as we know) have a life span of 75 to 100 years, Alexsi is 27, so she's got a good 50 to 75 years left, barring any unforeseen encounters.
Destania and Dan however have cubi life spans, which are 3000+ (to near immortal), it kinds shifts your long term life plans from the decades to the centuries, there's a good chance that killing all the dragons could take decades, and will last long beyond Alexsi's natural lifespan.

You've got to remember, because of the actions of Cyra's ascension, destroying the guardian/harvester of the city of Hishaan, the powerful dragon M'Chek, who's death resulted in the glassing of the city, and thus the death of all life within, the Dragon-Cubi Wars started, which lasted centuries, if not millenia.
Pretty much all dragons hate Cyra and her offspring more then any other cubi clan, and as dragons are immortal, and have long memories, going into hiding for a few millenia, and then rebuilding clan doesn't work, Cyra and Destania are both over 7000 years old, and the war started pretty much exactly 7000 years ago, and the dragons still hunt them, and many other cubi to this very day.
It stands to reason that for her own safety, her sons safety, and any future offspring of either of them, the most clear path of action is just to kill them all.

Now as for regarding Pyroduck in particular, she seems to know how he was raised and all, and she seems to have met him previously (the feather in his braid is hers after all) tho we don't know under which circumstances, and how that meeting went.
She still sees him as a threat, tho a lesser one then Abel apparently since the adventurers were sent to kill him, not Pyro.
We can also judge from Alexsi's initial reaction when Pyro told her he was a dragon, that Destania told her dragons were a danger to Dan, so I can understand Destania disappointment when she found out that, while knowing this fact, Alexsi decided to pursue a relationship with him, even if he was raised differently.
Probably as far as Destania is concerned, she'd rather had that Fa'Lina throttled Pyro to death when he was presented to her as an infant.

You also got to remember that cubi are creatures of emotion, we recently saw that Abel was locked in an emotional loop of rage wanting to kill the adventurers at any cost, for all we know Destania could have been in one since Edwards capture.
Also cubi seem to very fickle, Fa'Lina for instance is known as a friend to all, and seems to treat everyone, being or creature, with a good degree of respect, heck her adopted son is of a race that is the sworn enemy of hers, his blood father murdered her entire clan and she still let Pyro live, yet when she encountered Merlitz for the first time, she wanted to murder him 5 times over, and only reason she didn't is because he was Aaryanna's boyfriend.

So combining everything,
- Her stepdaughter isn't part of her longterm plans, and she will outlive her anyway.
- She feels betrayed because she warned Alexsi about the danger dragons pose to Dan, yet she is in a relationship with one.
- She's an emotional cubi, who specializes in Pain and Suffering, coming from a clan who's main affinity is pain.
Ya...suddenly this very big cold shift doesn't seem so big and so cold anymore, not if you consider who Destania really is.

Though I vehemently disagree with Destania's reaction, I can understand it on an intellectual level.
To her, Alexi's choice to court Pyroduck must have been devastating. I imagine her knee-jerk reaction was something along the lines of "You have endangered yourself, me, your father, your brother, and the entire cubi race because you fell for a monster. How could you?" People have disowned their kids for less...

Alexi, even if she knew what Destania did, may still love her mother. I hope they can work this all out.

Thank you, BlackFulcrum. You pretty much spoke my mind better than I could.
Really it's not much of a shift at all, rather, it's logical progress to what she's been up to. Move along, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Quote from: Tapewolf on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM

Quote from: Prroul on January 28, 2013, 03:46:42 PM
I never once stated that killing all the dragons is not obtainable. I said that her fantasy-obsession of killing all dragons, rescuing Edward, and living with Ed and Dan happily and uninterrupted is not obtainable.

It's not clear she has plans after killing or otherwise expelling the dragons. She may not have thought that far ahead, and it's not clear that she sees Dan as much more than a way to make the clan bigger.

She may not want Edward back either, come to that.  We can't really trust that what she told Biggs was the truth.

Another thought to take on the Biggs part in this is what if this makes Biggs less likely to fully help Destania?

Despite all the fighting between the siblings, Biggs and Wildy seem very respective to family ties. If Biggs sees this as a threat to his family interests and close family relations, could he turn on Dee?

Though another thought on her closing the curtain, Dee might try to ruff up Biggs to make him toe the line. Her line.

Would Destania be willing to destroy all life on the planet in order to get rid of the dragons?  I am beginning to think that she would view that as satisfactory.

Could Destania cause peace to break out between the cubi and the dragons because they are both so mad at Destania that they are willing to work together to kill her.  (The idea that cubi don't kill cubi was sort of negated by the fact that she tried to kill Abel.)  Could Kria get mad enough about the attack on Abel to join the dragons and the cubi?

Destania is also approaching the point where Dark Pegasus and Regina look like good guys by comparison.

(reads the thread) Hmm, yeah. Wow, people are being remarkably civil about this plot twist. Heh, imagine if this were another webcomic. They'd be resorting to .gifs and "your mom" insults by now.

(looks back at the comic page) AGH MAB THE SUGAR EYES GREIOJA;FOVJEWOSFDV (diabetic attack)

Anyways. Drama-booomb!

I love how Biggs' first thought is that Wildy's gonna be pissed at him. Yes, he may HAVE more than her, but he's also a little brother. As a big sister/little sister myself, I know exactly why he's worried.

And wow. Does he actually look ... DISAPPOINTED in Destania for not caring if Alexsi dies? That speaks volumes for his character; whatever else he may be, I guess he believes family is family and you don't mess with them.

Quote from: BlackFulcrum on January 28, 2013, 04:32:41 PM
Also cubi seem to very fickle, Fa'Lina for instance is known as a friend to all, and seems to treat everyone, being or creature, with a good degree of respect, heck her adopted son is of a race that is the sworn enemy of hers, his blood father murdered her entire clan and she still let Pyro live, yet when she encountered Merlitz for the first time, she wanted to murder him 5 times over, and only reason she didn't is because he was Aaryanna's boyfriend.

Fa'Lina is a particularly odd 'Cubi in any case.  Being able to see the future, she seems to be aiming for the best outcome as a whole.  AFAIK she puts on a different personality on order to best motivate the individual she's talking to.  For example, with Aary she'll joke about murdering people and react with hostility to Merlitz.  But if it had been Dan or Mink standing there, the conversation would have gone very, very differently.

Quote- She's an emotional cubi, who specializes in Pain and Suffering, coming from a clan who's main affinity is pain.
Ya...suddenly this very big cold shift doesn't seem so big and so cold anymore, not if you consider who Destania really is.

I always imagined that she had some pretty tough emotional discipline.  Otherwise she'd have great difficulty doing things like impersonating Biggs accurately.  I kind of assumed that she wouldn't have lasted 7000 years without developing tremendous self control, but on the other hand she's spent practically her entire life in SAIA where she is safe from harm (and others are safe from her).

I will say this: Biggs's scheming makes a hell of a lot more sense if he's a Were.  Can't say about Wildy, though - I was about to say there are times we'd have seen her transform, but I realized, especially due to her magical attacks, there really haven't been any.  Dan would probably know?  But I've seen nothing to suggest he doesn't.

Ceterum censeo that ain't Dee.

Quote from: Lying Foo on January 28, 2013, 06:10:34 PM
I will say this: Biggs's scheming makes a hell of a lot more sense if he's a Were.  Can't say about Wildy, though - I was about to say there are times we'd have seen her transform, but I realized, especially due to her magical attacks, there really haven't been any.  Dan would probably know?  But I've seen nothing to suggest he doesn't.

Ceterum censeo that ain't Dee.

Well in another frame of thought, how Wildy seems to be very territorial about Alexsi's inn when her brother breaks in seems to fit well with how were's are territorial about where they hang out. I'd guess even in a fight, Were's would be reluctant to show there true nature to the public.

Probably use their other two forms in a life or death situation.

Quote from: joshofspam on January 28, 2013, 05:25:15 PMThough another thought on her closing the curtain, Dee might try to ruff up Biggs to make him toe the line. Her line.

I somewhat doubt that, she's letting her wing tentacles show, and she's only closing the curtains on her side, I think she's gonna transform to her real form, with the dragons still after her I don't think she's wants that to happen in public view.

Quote from: Naldru on January 28, 2013, 05:34:57 PMWould Destania be willing to destroy all life on the planet in order to get rid of the dragons?  I am beginning to think that she would view that as satisfactory.

Doubtful, remember cubi's need emotions to feed upon, no beings or other creatures = no food, especially for her own clan who feed upon pain.

Quote from: Black_angel on January 28, 2013, 05:49:10 PMAnd wow. Does he actually look ... DISAPPOINTED in Destania for not caring if Alexsi dies? That speaks volumes for his character; whatever else he may be, I guess he believes family is family and you don't mess with them.

It does, and might speak less for Destania, but he's a being (or a were as some speculate, both live for 75-100 years), and she's a 7000 year old cubi, we do not know the level of emotional investment she has in Alexsi, her stepdaughter, who by her book just betrayed her with their worst enemy. (yes their because it's likely the dragons have Edward)

Quote from: Tapewolf on January 28, 2013, 05:51:37 PM
I always imagined that she had some pretty tough emotional discipline.  Otherwise she'd have great difficulty doing things like impersonating Biggs accurately.  I kind of assumed that she wouldn't have lasted 7000 years without developing tremendous self control, but on the other hand she's spent practically her entire life in SAIA where she is safe from harm (and others are safe from her).

True, but that might have been the straw that broke the camels back, still what you say could be true as well, which pretty much brings me back to Alexsi, however much Destania and Dan may love her, she will die somewhere in the next 100 years, while they could live on for dozens of millenia more (some clan leaders are over 50,000 years old), add to what I mentioned earlier (Alexsi "betraying" them by dating a dragon) ya.

Quote from: Black_angel on January 28, 2013, 05:49:10 PM
And wow. Does he actually look ... DISAPPOINTED in Destania for not caring if Alexsi dies? That speaks volumes for his character; whatever else he may be, I guess he believes family is family and you don't mess with them.

To add credibility to the above quote:

QuoteAdd to that the inevitable incursion of ferretty wrath and it's safe to say that Destania won't go down that path.

I agree entirely with what you've just said, although there are probably a couple of underlying reasons alongside the whole "family is family" deal.
First and foremost, it seems that the entire San clan is a very tight-knit, mafioso, if you will, family. This is reflected by several instances in the comic going all the way back to the Lost Lake crew's first trip into the Twink Territories, namely where Wildy first reveals that her brother is their leader. Another case is when Wildy published her, shall we say, controversial novel and was able to have it removed from the shelves with just a phone call, implying that she obviously has powerful connections of some sort, most likely obtained through her family since she doesn't do much outside of the Lost Lake. Nothing that we know of at least. Thirdly I'd like to reference one of the more recent comics where Dan and Wildy are dicussing the fact that her father expects Wildy to marry soon, which is aparently a stong tradition within the San clan.
All of this together shows that, yes, Biggs does have the mentality that family is of the utmost importance.
The other possible factors are that he's a womanizer, and is still probably attracted to Alexi a bit, even if it was Dan that he originally, ehem, well, we all know what almost happened.

However, I'd also like to mention several points posted by BlackFulcrum earlier: Destania is a succubus; Destania has an intense affinity for pain and suffering; she is essentially a pseudo-immortal, and therefore has the mentality to match.
Being a succubus, Dee is incredibly sensitive to emotion, because, in this (DMFA's) and many other incarnations of the species, succubi and incubi are most aptly described as "emotion incarnate." There is a large possibility that she is just caught up in an emotional loop and has yet to be broken out of it. In fact, she might have been caught in it for so long, she's unable to be freed from it. Then there is also the possibility that she might not really care for Ed as much as we might think. After all, she did try to kill him the first time they met. And she's obviously had more than one serious relationship in her time, as noted by the revelation of Abel's late father having been one of her lovers.
Since her emotional affinity is pain, she might also be used to feeding on herself, as is entirely possible for Cubi to do, which is usually the catalyst for an emotional loop. At this point, if she is caught in said loop, she may have become an emotional masochist, feeding off of her own pain as well as that of others and has thus become numbed to it in a way that allows her to still feel pain but not have her conscience be bothered.
Finally, Destania has lived for a very, very long time, and has witnessed the start of the Dragon/Cubi wars. She has seen people, cities, and nations rise and fall in her time, so, to her, what's one more life, one that's only related to her in the fact that she served as a step-mother? Destania does care for Alexi in that sense, but does not feel the same attatchment that she would for a blood relative like Dan, and therefore is willing, and able, to shelve her feelings for Alexi if it will further her own goals. How that will affect her relationship with Edward is something we won't know until we see it in the comic, if it ever does come to that.

Now, onto something entirely different, has anyone else noticed how Biggs is holding his necklace in panel 2? I know there's a lot of possible reasons, like, to keep it from swinging up into his face as he suddenly makes a double-take, but I don't think that's the case. Anyone got any interesting theories?

Holy wow, some discussions going on here. And so civil! Amazing.  :mowmeep

Spirit Studios, I think maybe Wildy gave him that necklace. Seems like a birthday gift type dealie.

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 28, 2013, 10:57:44 PM
Holy wow, some discussions going on here. And so civil! Amazing.  :mowmeep

Spirit Studios, I think maybe Wildy gave him that necklace. Seems like a birthday gift type dealie.

It could also be a gift from their deceased mother, now that I think of it.

Maybe the whole situation might have hit closer to home for Biggs then we suspect.

It was all a little unexpected, but I can understand Destania. Really.

Now, don't get me wrong. I know that she's an antagonist, and that her dream will never come to fruition: it's rather clear that the comic is gradually moving towards the dawn of the age of beings and technology.

The thing to remember is that dragons are, generally speaking, bordering on being cthuloid horrors beyond the comprehension of beings and creatures alike. According to the demonology section, Bajorie (a "very young dragon") is still older than Nicky ("by far the oldest demon" with no memories older than 100 years), and several times that of Fa'Lina. Some of them are no doubt old enough to have some very hands on experience concerning evolution.
I can think of few things more evil than setting yourself up as the guardian of a city, and then harvesting the souls of the inhabitants. Although less gory than sitting down and eating infants, it's ultimately more cruel and inhuman. While there is no guarantee that the other dragons do similar things, I don't think we have seen much to discourage that assumption either. Additionally, dragons appear to be far less individualistic, indoctrinated by their elders.

Which is to say, Pyroduck is just about unique. There's unlikely to be much in Destania's experience that would lead her to the conclusion that a dragon could sincerely act selflessly. She's more likely to believe that Pyroduck acts like a nice person, while working to increase his power, like essentially all dragons do.
Declaring her adopted daughter expendable is pretty cold, but it's no more ruthless than any parent willing to send their offspring to war. And honestly, while I am quite devoted to my family, I can imagine situations that would cause me to lose that loyalty. Joining one of the darkest and most twisted factions of the past century might have done it.

All that said, Dee does remain a dangerous fanatic, and her mission is misguided at best. Even if it had some merit once, her goals and methods are about to become obsolete. In the end, the masses will be empowered, and even the nearly godlike dragons will lose most of their power, no longer able to get away with exploiting entire societies.

I've been thinking, (A dangerous occupation 'tis true.)

Dragons are OMG powerful, but still not so powerful that they're untouchable.  Cyra, pre-tri-wing-ascension, thought she had good odds against M'Chek in a throwdown and Cubi are one of the least powerful (in absolute terms) of the Creatures.

Then we have the Fae, who are often lumped-in it seems with Dragons as to relative power level.  What was it said?  "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder-blades will cramp his style."  The current Queen of the fae got a Harpoon between her shoulder-blades and all it did was make her (temporarily) 'pointy'.

Dragons ARE powerful, but Fae are in an entirely different league, the only reason they remain comparable is because the Fae by their quite 'Alien' (in the Chthulu Mythos sense of the word.) nature have little vested interest as a race in the whole linear physical reality 'thing' compared to the Dragons.

The Dragons, being enormous egoists by all appearances, will not let this stand.

M'Chek was harvesting souls from an entire City, a City large enough and powerful enough to make a tempting target for other creatures, M'Chek should've completely curb-stomped Cyra with contemptuous ease with all that 'I can't believe it's not Biggatons' power... but he didn't.  So the question becomes, What was he doing with all that power in the first place? 

Perhaps it was part and parcel with a plan for the Dragons to meet/surpass the Fae in power, and all that has been un-done by one Cubi who just wanted to be the mayor of Cooltown.  No wonder they're pissed at the Cubi race.

Quote from: Tzenker on January 28, 2013, 11:26:12 PM
It was all a little unexpected, but I can understand Destania. Really.

Now, don't get me wrong. I know that she's an antagonist, and that her dream will never come to fruition: it's rather clear that the comic is gradually moving towards the dawn of the age of beings and technology.

The thing to remember is that dragons are, generally speaking, bordering on being cthuloid horrors beyond the comprehension of beings and creatures alike. According to the demonology section, Bajorie (a "very young dragon") is still older than Nicky ("by far the oldest demon" with no memories older than 100 years), and several times that of Fa'Lina. Some of them are no doubt old enough to have some very hands on experience concerning evolution.
I can think of few things more evil than setting yourself up as the guardian of a city, and then harvesting the souls of the inhabitants. Although less gory than sitting down and eating infants, it's ultimately more cruel and inhuman. While there is no guarantee that the other dragons do similar things, I don't think we have seen much to discourage that assumption either. Additionally, dragons appear to be far less individualistic, indoctrinated by their elders.

Which is to say, Pyroduck is just about unique. There's unlikely to be much in Destania's experience that would lead her to the conclusion that a dragon could sincerely act selflessly. She's more likely to believe that Pyroduck acts like a nice person, while working to increase his power, like essentially all dragons do.
Declaring her adopted daughter expendable is pretty cold, but it's no more ruthless than any parent willing to send their offspring to war. And honestly, while I am quite devoted to my family, I can imagine situations that would cause me to lose that loyalty. Joining one of the darkest and most twisted factions of the past century might have done it.

All that said, Dee does remain a dangerous fanatic, and her mission is misguided at best. Even if it had some merit once, her goals and methods are about to become obsolete. In the end, the masses will be empowered, and even the nearly godlike dragons will lose most of their power, no longer able to get away with exploiting entire societies.

Really interesting thoughts! I do wish you wouldn't act like you know the ending to DMFA already though - although it does seem to be heading in that direction, it's not on paper yet!

But great analysis going on with Destania. I think someone who legitimately wanted to bring down the dragon race for the reasons that they're terrible and cause a lot of pain to other races could be a much more morally ambiguous character, but since she's doing it ostensibly MOSTly out of obvious personal bitterness, she definitely tilts towards the 'selfish bad guy' end of the spectrum.

I think Destania legitimately thinks Pyro isn't trying to be selfish and gain personal power in the way you said, since she called him Falina's pet and all (implying she assumes he's been 'brainwashed' sufficiently to not be anti-cubi), it might be one of those things that she's just been around long enough to believe that eventually, years and years and years in the future, he'll end up being an adversary after all. Especially if she destroys all the other dragons, she couldn't very well leave him alive and expect him not to seek vengeance for his race. Thus, even if he's relatively harmless in intentions now, he's an eventual threat either way, so he's an obvious enemy for her.

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 28, 2013, 10:57:44 PM
Holy wow, some discussions going on here. And so civil! Amazing.   :mowmeep

Not all comic discussions are full of the "I'm right/you can go suck it" mentality. :mowwink

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 28, 2013, 10:57:44 PM
Spirit Studios, I think maybe Wildy gave him that necklace. Seems like a birthday gift type dealie.

Quote from: joshofspam on January 28, 2013, 11:12:36 PM
It could also be a gift from their deceased mother, now that I think of it.

Maybe the whole situation might have hit closer to home for Biggs then we suspect.

Both of these are quite possible, but I still think it has a different kind of significance. Possibly a charm of some sort?

A thought re: Cyra vs. M'chek.

He was really powerful--enough so that it was worth the risk to Cyra to try to kill him and take that power.

But--did his connection to the city and the souls he had consumed make him even more powerful than she expected?

And she still managed to kill him?

Maybe she had an "advantage"...one that could only be used against a single dragon, but one which could, with the right resources applied to it, be used against the entire dragon race?

Quote from: Nino on January 29, 2013, 12:12:15 AMI do wish you wouldn't act like you know the ending to DMFA already though - although it does seem to be heading in that direction, it's not on paper yet!

Oh, heck, I don't know anything for sure. That goes without saying (and if not, I apologize). I do think that every sign points in that direction, but it could be a red herring. Mind you, I don't necessarily think that would be the END. There would be plenty of opportunity for intrigue and adventure in such a setting.

Re: Pyroduck, I will admit that I oversimplified it somewhat. I was getting excessively wordy, and was a bit concerned about that.
I don't think she considers him friendly to cubi. Possibly at the moment, but likely ready to turn at any moment. I suspect that she believes Fa'Lina to be horribly, horribly wrong about not only Pyroduck, but the dragons and peace accord. Perhaps she even believes that if she doesn't get rid of the dragons, they might get rid of the cubi sooner or later.
I imagine that her reasoning is layered, like a delicious and demented pastry.

Quote from: Tuyu on January 29, 2013, 01:03:30 AM
A thought re: Cyra vs. M'chek.

He was really powerful--enough so that it was worth the risk to Cyra to try to kill him and take that power.

But--did his connection to the city and the souls he had consumed make him even more powerful than she expected?

And she still managed to kill him?

Maybe she had an "advantage"...one that could only be used against a single dragon, but one which could, with the right resources applied to it, be used against the entire dragon race?

The vibe I'm getting is that Cyra's plan didn't originally involve stealing M'chek's 'Power' power, more his 'power' power.. i.e. his influence and political power being the patron of a large city (kind of like Kria with her city) rather than 'I swallaz U Soul!'   She may not have even originally intended Ascension and that was just a side-effect of 'be at ground-zero when Biggatons of Souls go-bewm'.

And again, Cyra originally, if we believe her story, had no idea about what M'chek was doing with the souls under his patronage, she just saw him as a dragon in an influential position and if she could replace him she'd be set for her (very long) life.  If M'chek had personal authority to use those souls for himself I think he could have probably curbied Cyra easily, but as it was he was a dragon... but just a dragon.. and still within Cyra's competance-range for a take-down. 

So, what were the souls For?  My theory is still 'surpass the Fae' plan, which was dealt a significant blow by Cyra's 'Whoopsie'.  Declaring war of Genocide on all Cubi seems a bit much to do just to cover-up M'chek's indescretions (if they were in fact not sanctioned by Dragonkind as a whole) and avoid a PR nightmare.  Which looks worse on your resume?  Being a member of a race that had one bad apple go Om-Nom-Nom on being souls, or being a member of a race which is attempting to utterly wipe-out an entire species for no reasons those outside-the-loop can descern?

Quote from: Spirit Studios on January 28, 2013, 09:12:15 PM
Being a succubus, Dee is incredibly sensitive to emotion, because, in this (DMFA's) and many other incarnations of the species, succubi and incubi are most aptly described as "emotion incarnate." There is a large possibility that she is just caught up in an emotional loop and has yet to be broken out of it. In fact, she might have been caught in it for so long, she's unable to be freed from it.

That's very interesting.  It's possible that she's lived more than twice her nominal span because she's got herself in such a loop.

Quote from: Tapewolf on January 29, 2013, 04:31:25 AM
That's very interesting.  It's possible that she's lived more than twice her nominal span because she's got herself in such a loop.

I don't think Destania living over 7000 years is that odd for a cubi actually, maybe odd in the way that she's still alive after all this time while being No. 2 on the Dragons most wanted list, right after her mother, for all that time, but otherwise not odd at all.
In the Demonology 101 section cubi lifespan is listed as 3000+, the plus is the important part, it denotes there is no true known upper limit.

So with a stable source of emotional food, and secure location, like the Academy, any cubi can live easily to 7000 years, like Destania did, so anything over 3000 is normal for a cubi as long as they don't encounter some zealous adventurer.
If you check the cubi clan leaders, the oldest is Quoar at 75,000 years old, now tri-wings are of course of a whole other magnitude then normal cubi, but to compare, homo sapiens, our own species, took 50,000 years to go from cave man to where we are today, he's 25,000 years older then that.

If you look at the Demo 101 lifespans for the different races, Cubi slot pretty much into 4th place, right after:
1. Fae (eternal until they willing choose to be reborn, if what Mab did to Nutmeg is any indicator they also cannot be killed by any known means)
2. Dragons (Immortal, cannot die of old age, can still be killed tho)
3. Mythos (differs vastly between the different mythos subspecies, age limit 15 - 100,000+ years, again no true upper limit)

Also as nice side note, Balorie, mentioned in Demo 101, is at 57,822 young for a dragon, so many of the living dragons are really really ancient.

Quote from: BlackFulcrum on January 29, 2013, 06:34:17 AM
I don't think Destania living over 7000 years is that odd for a cubi actually, maybe odd in the way that she's still alive after all this time while being No. 2 on the Dragons most wanted list, right after her mother, for all that time, but otherwise not odd at all.
In the Demonology 101 section cubi lifespan is listed as 3000+, the plus is the important part, it denotes there is no true known upper limit.

Yeah, but I don't think it's that simple.  As I understand it, the nominal lifespan is about 3000.  Where it gets fuzzy is that it can be extended by various means - souls being one of the more notorious.  The amount of energy which a 'Cubi needs to retain their youth does tend to increase with age, you live about 3000 without taking extra measures.  I'm not convinced that 7000 is normal for a regular 'Cubi.

The other thing, and probably the real reason for the 'plus' part, is that if you're able to successfully ascend, you have an indefinite lifespan and life processes that generate so much surplus energy that it gives a power boost to all your relatives as well.  Quoar, Fa'Lina, Cyra et al - all the tri-winged Clan Leaders - have reached this state.  Destania hasn't, and probably won't given that it's extremely rare for it to succeed and that it takes an astonishing amount of energy to do so.

Emotional loops are fairly short.  Like 10-30 minute short before usually they fizzle...and also they tend to be easy to knock out of loop.  It's more on the principle of folks who get angry and "see red" where for a brief bit of time they just don't think and just react and cycle around  in a thing.  And more importantly they tend to make folks do incredibly short-sighted stupid things because they cannot think of anything outside of the immediate.   Emotional loops are usually bad for Cubi because in terms of adventuring if you can get one of them into that, it makes their ability to tactic go down the slope and much easier to kill because of it. One of the best tactics an adventurer can do to a Cubi is to get them into an emotional tantrum.  So I'm gonna have to bring down the god boot and mention that it would be pretty impossible for Destania to be in an emotional loop for that long.

As for the Demonology 101 thing, I should probably fix that.  A big downside is a bit of what was written was back in a time when I was really throwing around big numbers because I didn't have enough ranks in worldbuilding and didn't realize how ker-derp some of those numbers are.  The + part however implies very specific exceptions...like once you pass the 3k mark you are pretty much going to need an outside source of energy to handle your upkeep (which is why many go into soulstealing).  In Destania's case, the answer is a lot less complicated in that as Cyra's only child: Cyra has been using the clan's energy to extend Destania's life and youth.

Whelp... there goes half of the discussion topics I had! Ah well, at least now we have a definite answer to several of our questions.

Quote from: Amber Williams on January 29, 2013, 10:24:23 AM
Emotional loops are fairly short.  Like 10-30 minute short before usually they fizzle...and also they tend to be easy to knock out of loop.  It's more on the principle of folks who get angry and "see red" where for a brief bit of time they just don't think and just react and cycle around  in a thing.  And more importantly they tend to make folks do incredibly short-sighted stupid things because they cannot think of anything outside of the immediate.   Emotional loops are usually bad for Cubi because in terms of adventuring if you can get one of them into that, it makes their ability to tactic go down the slope and much easier to kill because of it. One of the best tactics an adventurer can do to a Cubi is to get them into an emotional tantrum.  So I'm gonna have to bring down the god boot and mention that it would be pretty impossible for Destania to be in an emotional loop for that long.

As for the Demonology 101 thing, I should probably fix that.  A big downside is a bit of what was written was back in a time when I was really throwing around big numbers because I didn't have enough ranks in worldbuilding and didn't realize how ker-derp some of those numbers are.  The + part however implies very specific exceptions...like once you pass the 3k mark you are pretty much going to need an outside source of energy to handle your upkeep (which is why many go into soulstealing).  In Destania's case, the answer is a lot less complicated in that as Cyra's only child: Cyra has been using the clan's energy to extend Destania's life and youth.

Ehh. The big numbers  (or rather, the dynamics of long and short lived races) are one of the reasons it's interesting - think Easterners(humans) vs Dragaerans in Stephen Brust's books, where the latter can (but not usually do , simply given to unnatural deaths) live for thousands of years and some particulars of their politics take centuries.

Quote from: Amber Williams on January 29, 2013, 10:24:23 AM
Emotional loops are fairly short.  Like 10-30 minute short before usually they fizzle...and also they tend to be easy to knock out of loop.  It's more on the principle of folks who get angry and "see red" where for a brief bit of time they just don't think and just react and cycle around  in a thing.  And more importantly they tend to make folks do incredibly short-sighted stupid things because they cannot think of anything outside of the immediate.   Emotional loops are usually bad for Cubi because in terms of adventuring if you can get one of them into that, it makes their ability to tactic go down the slope and much easier to kill because of it. One of the best tactics an adventurer can do to a Cubi is to get them into an emotional tantrum.  So I'm gonna have to bring down the god boot and mention that it would be pretty impossible for Destania to be in an emotional loop for that long.

Fascinating.  However, this makes me and at least one other person wonder about an example of self-feeding you gave in the past that's linked on the wiki.  I apologize in advance for dredging up such an old topic, and I'll understand if you don't want to answer it, but frankly curiosity is getting the best of me right now and I just can't help at least trying to ask about it.

This emotional loop self-feeding reminded me of your walled up Cubi example (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=2262.msg93651#msg93651) of self-feeding.  Since you stated that such an example is very rare (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,2262.msg93660.html#msg93660), would that just be an extremely rare instance of an emotional loop lasting longer than half an hour?  

Or is there something other than an emotional loop that allows Cubi to feed on their own emotions and that lasts longer than a half hour?  You stated that the walled up Cubi example required an insane amount of discipline and determination (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,2262.msg93687.html#msg93687) to pull off, which seems to be the exact opposite of an uncontrolled emotional loop.  That's why I wonder if there are other techniques for self-feeding, like forms of meditation or something.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm just asking about world building.  I definitely believe that Destania's long life span is completely due to Cyra's power.  After all, Piflak limits the population her clan in order to use her power to extend the lives of her clan members as well.

You pretty much nailed it in the latter half in that they are two different things, but have enough similarities to get confused up.

Emotional loops are loops...in that they just cycle the individual around and around in a certain emotion...kind of like a washing mashine.  It's kind of haphazard, tumble-like, and usually makes the Cubi not really in control of their better senses.

The thing like with the walled in Cubi requires discipline and more a constant push.  It also requires an immense amount of emotion, but unlike a loop...that instance has the energy being channeled.  And generally it requires some sort of emotional trigger to start it...something which meditation and self taught techniques I cannot imagine would work.  It's like surviving a bullet to the head. Yeah...there are stories of it happening and it is a possibility...but the reason they are fantastic to read about is because they are so exceptional.  You can't really train yourself to get shot in the head.

Quote from: Amber Williams on January 29, 2013, 11:42:58 AM
You pretty much nailed it in the latter half in that they are two different things, but have enough similarities to get confused up.

Emotional loops are loops...in that they just cycle the individual around and around in a certain emotion...kind of like a washing mashine.  It's kind of haphazard, tumble-like, and usually makes the Cubi not really in control of their better senses.

The thing like with the walled in Cubi requires discipline and more a constant push.  It also requires an immense amount of emotion, but unlike a loop...that instance has the energy being channeled.  And generally it requires some sort of emotional trigger to start it...something which meditation and self taught techniques I cannot imagine would work.  It's like surviving a bullet to the head. Yeah...there are stories of it happening and it is a possibility...but the reason they are fantastic to read about is because they are so exceptional.  You can't really train yourself to get shot in the head.

Ah, so the walled in Cubi case is only similar in that it's an emotional trigger that's properly focused with enough luck to create that exceptionally rare case whereas in most other cases with most other Cubi it would just become a typical emotional loop.

True, you can't train yourself to survive taking a bullet to the head, but I'm guessing in the case the walled in Cubi harnessing rage, it's more like individuals who've disciplined themselves to put the energy of their anger towards doing productive tasks instead of throwing a tantrum, right?  Sure, it's obvious it takes an extreme amount of luck to focus it and keep pushing it when it happens and not fall into a typical emotional loop, but it can happen once in a blue moon during a meteor shower with a Kieper Belt comet visiting. ;)

Quote from: ChaosMageX on January 29, 2013, 11:53:56 AM
Ah, so the walled in Cubi case is only similar in that it's an emotional trigger that's properly focused with enough luck to create that exceptionally rare case whereas in most other cases with most other Cubi it would just become a typical emotional loop.

True, you can't train yourself to survive taking a bullet to the head, but I'm guessing in the case the walled in Cubi harnessing rage, it's more like individuals who've disciplined themselves to put the energy of their anger towards doing productive tasks instead of throwing a tantrum, right?  Sure, it's obvious it takes an extreme amount of luck to focus it and keep pushing it when it happens and not fall into a typical emotional loop, but it can happen once in a blue moon during a meteor shower with a Kieper Belt comet visiting. ;)

Well I don't think she's saying it's either-or. I think it could start with an emotional loop either way but then the training comes in later when the cubi has to will itself to maintain that emotion. If I'm reading correctly.

Of course, now that Dan is a full-fledged Cubi, Des is... well... not as unexpendable. If her actions become detrimental to the clan as a whole, Cyra may well decide to cut off her supply.

In particular, if Des goes 'wiggy' and Dan tries to square off against her, I could very easily Cyra doing something about that as well. The very LAST thing she needs is for her last two descendants to kill each other off. Probably some form of 'time out', pulling them into whatever bubble in the fabric of space and time that Cyra is in.

Mind you, I could easily see Cyra going on-board with 'killing all dragons', as long as the plan had a good chance of working. If Destania's anger at loosing most of her clan was bad, think about what it did to Cyra, after all. However, if that plan goes sour, Cyra may well decide to cut losses so she can focus on keeping Dan alive long enough for him to start repopulating her Clan.

Now, an upswing in the population of Clan Cyra is going to *really* piss off Dragons, and might spark another Dragon/Cubi war, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Also, considering this (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_851.php) is a typical response by Jyrras to feeling overwhelmed, I wonder what the next batch of toys is going to look like...

Quote from: Prroul on January 30, 2013, 10:47:26 AM
Mind you, I could easily see Cyra going on-board with 'killing all dragons', as long as the plan had a good chance of working. If Destania's anger at loosing most of her clan was bad, think about what it did to Cyra, after all. However, if that plan goes sour, Cyra may well decide to cut losses so she can focus on keeping Dan alive long enough for him to start repopulating her Clan.

I would like to dispute part of this claim, on account of this page: http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1215.php

True, Cyra does not like dragons in the least; but it seems that she's had time to consider why the dragons don't like her either. She is obviously feeling remorse for destroying Hishaan, even if said remorse was initially a response to the near total loss of her entire clan. Cyra has probably realized by now that something like a plan to eradicate all the dragons in Furrae is not, and will not ever be, a good idea. In my opinion the only reason she's even letting Dee go on with her plotting is because, for now, it's keeping her only daughter, and subsequently her only grandson, safe from the reach of the dragons.

However, if Destania's plan should pose a threat to the safety of Dan, I do believe that Cyra would probably put her demi-goddess foot down and stop it before things got out of hand, so long as she didn't reveal herself, as that would set off a sensory alert for every dragon in Furrae.

Of course, now that I think about it, not every Dragon (excluding Pyro, and debatably Pip to some degree) poses a threat to Dan. I'm referring back to comic #143 (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_143.php). Although I realize this is probably all taking place well before the storyline as it is now was even conceived, I still think it's worth mentioning that apparently not all dragons despise Cyra for what she's done, otherwise Dan's adventuring career would have ended long ago.

Quote from: Spirit Studios on January 30, 2013, 04:01:40 PM
However, if Destania's plan should pose a threat to the safety of Dan, I do believe that Cyra would probably put her demi-goddess foot down and stop it before things got out of hand, so long as she didn't reveal herself, as that would set off a sensory alert for every dragon in Furrae.

I doubt she'd need to reveal herself.  Siar was able to compel her children to assist her, a siren song that reached even into SAIA's dimensional bubble.  It's quite likely that, should she need to, Cyra could give Destania (or Dan) similar commands from wherever she is.

QuoteOf course, now that I think about it, not every Dragon (excluding Pyro, and debatably Pip to some degree) poses a threat to Dan. I'm referring back to comic #143 (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_143.php). Although I realize this is probably all taking place well before the storyline as it is now was even conceived, I still think it's worth mentioning that apparently not all dragons despise Cyra for what she's done, otherwise Dan's adventuring career would have ended long ago.

And Shanna, of course.  But we don't know.  It's possible that either of them would have killed him in a heartbeat had they known he was Daniel Cyra.

Quote from: Tapewolf on January 30, 2013, 04:12:18 PM
And Shanna, of course.  But we don't know.  It's possible that either of them would have killed him in a heartbeat had they known he was Daniel Cyra.

I like to think Shanna would have taken a moment to miss the sweet, fluffy mystery before dispatching him, though. At least in remembrance of Hannah (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_884.php)...

I was under the impression that Shanna was a Mythos, not a dragon, but I could be mistaken. Makes me wonder about Aliyka though.

And woot for all the Steven Burst references. I love Vlad. Not Cawti so much, but Vlad is tops.  :mowcookie And I love his 'sister'.

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 30, 2013, 10:15:44 PM
I was under the impression that Shanna was a Mythos, not a dragon, but I could be mistaken. Makes me wonder about Aliyka though.

What, Aliyka is like the poster child of Phoenix B (http://www.missmab.com/Demo/phoenixb.php). "Avian, usually has second form."

Quote from: Nino on January 31, 2013, 02:32:53 AM

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 30, 2013, 10:15:44 PM
I was under the impression that Shanna was a Mythos, not a dragon, but I could be mistaken. Makes me wonder about Aliyka though.

What, Aliyka is like the poster child of Phoenix B (http://www.missmab.com/Demo/phoenixb.php). "Avian, usually has second form."

You know, it's kind of funny.

If you look back on old character pages, Aliyka is indeed listed as a  Phoenix B. But when you read the biology page for that race, it states their alternate form as a regular  Being. But her being form is anything but regular.

It's just an odd thing I noticed with a little bit of looking back through things. Of course if that size in form is normal for all their kind, it explains why their well known in legends for marching into battles and righting wrongs.

I guess the conservation of energy in this universe is nonexistant, or Cubi are the perfect recyclers.

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 30, 2013, 10:15:44 PM
I was under the impression that Shanna was a Mythos, not a dragon, but I could be mistaken. Makes me wonder about Aliyka though.

Shanna is/was the blue Dragon. Hannah was the brown-furred undead. Anna was/is the green Mythos.

Are you perhaps confusing which one was which?

Quote from: Ignuus66 on January 31, 2013, 05:38:23 AM
I guess the conservation of energy in this universe is nonexistant, or Cubi are the perfect recyclers.

What, with self-feeding?  No, I think Amber said that the actual energy comes from somewhere external, and the emotional energy is more like a catalyst to access it or something.

Quote from: Tapewolf on January 31, 2013, 06:54:02 AM

Quote from: Ignuus66 on January 31, 2013, 05:38:23 AM
I guess the conservation of energy in this universe is nonexistant, or Cubi are the perfect recyclers.

What, with self-feeding?  No, I think Amber said that the actual energy comes from somewhere external, and the emotional energy is more like a catalyst to access it or something.

I believe she compared it to emotions being like sunlight and 'cubi are capable of photosynthesis, at one point.

Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 31, 2013, 06:30:26 AM

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 30, 2013, 10:15:44 PM
I was under the impression that Shanna was a Mythos, not a dragon, but I could be mistaken. Makes me wonder about Aliyka though.

Shanna is/was the blue Dragon. Hannah was the brown-furred undead. Anna was/is the green Mythos.

Are you perhaps confusing which one was which?

No, I'm not confusing any of them with eachother. I just thought I remember someone in that situation (Dan, DP...) refer to multiple Mythos which I took to mean Shanna and Anna. But like I said, I could be mistaken, and likely am.  :mowtongue

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 31, 2013, 12:19:22 PM
No, I'm not confusing any of them with eachother. I just thought I remember someone in that situation (Dan, DP...) refer to multiple Mythos which I took to mean Shanna and Anna. But like I said, I could be mistaken, and likely am.  :mowtongue

Ah. It's also entirely possible, if not probably, that _Dan_ was mistaken. After all, he didn't recognise Hannah as Undead until after her head came off... so he's not the most observant. ;-]

Edit: Also, there were two Mythos who did the initial kidnapping. Maybe those two?

Quote from: Prroul on January 31, 2013, 09:13:01 AM

Quote from: Tapewolf on January 31, 2013, 06:54:02 AM

Quote from: Ignuus66 on January 31, 2013, 05:38:23 AM
I guess the conservation of energy in this universe is nonexistant, or Cubi are the perfect recyclers.

What, with self-feeding?  No, I think Amber said that the actual energy comes from somewhere external, and the emotional energy is more like a catalyst to access it or something.

I believe she compared it to emotions being like sunlight and 'cubi are capable of photosynthesis, at one point.

I'm pretty sure they feed on magic, but can't do directly. Eating emotions is just their way of consuming magic.

Quote from: MT Hazard on January 31, 2013, 02:07:28 PM

Quote from: Prroul on January 31, 2013, 09:13:01 AM

Quote from: Tapewolf on January 31, 2013, 06:54:02 AM

Quote from: Ignuus66 on January 31, 2013, 05:38:23 AM
I guess the conservation of energy in this universe is nonexistant, or Cubi are the perfect recyclers.

What, with self-feeding?  No, I think Amber said that the actual energy comes from somewhere external, and the emotional energy is more like a catalyst to access it or something.

I believe she compared it to emotions being like sunlight and 'cubi are capable of photosynthesis, at one point.

I'm pretty sure they feed on magic, but can't do directly. Eating emotions is just their way of consuming magic.

that poses an interesting question, what IS magic? is it the side effect of a fundemental force of the DMFA universe that being have evolved to use? or am I just overthinking?

Quote from: Ignuus66 on January 31, 2013, 02:26:52 PM

Quote from: MT Hazard on January 31, 2013, 02:07:28 PM

Quote from: Prroul on January 31, 2013, 09:13:01 AM

Quote from: Tapewolf on January 31, 2013, 06:54:02 AM

Quote from: Ignuus66 on January 31, 2013, 05:38:23 AM
I guess the conservation of energy in this universe is nonexistant, or Cubi are the perfect recyclers.

What, with self-feeding?  No, I think Amber said that the actual energy comes from somewhere external, and the emotional energy is more like a catalyst to access it or something.

I believe she compared it to emotions being like sunlight and 'cubi are capable of photosynthesis, at one point.

I'm pretty sure they feed on magic, but can't do directly. Eating emotions is just their way of consuming magic.

that poses an interesting question, what IS magic? is it the side effect of a fundemental force of the DMFA universe that being have evolved to use? or am I just overthinking?

hmm... http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1173.php well the average rock is filled with a fair chunk of magic and apparently its possible (though difficult) to make things with less magic...which reminds me sorta of someone talking about trying to get impurities out of metal

Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 31, 2013, 01:21:31 PM

Quote from: Zebra Bug on January 31, 2013, 12:19:22 PM
No, I'm not confusing any of them with eachother. I just thought I remember someone in that situation (Dan, DP...) refer to multiple Mythos which I took to mean Shanna and Anna. But like I said, I could be mistaken, and likely am.  :mowtongue

Ah. It's also entirely possible, if not probably, that _Dan_ was mistaken. After all, he didn't recognise Hannah as Undead until after her head came off... so he's not the most observant. ;-]

Edit: Also, there were two Mythos who did the initial kidnapping. Maybe those two?

That is totally possibly what happened. XD

Quote from: Amber Williams on January 29, 2013, 10:24:23 AM
Emotional loops are fairly short.  Like 10-30 minute short before usually they fizzle...and also they tend to be easy to knock out of loop.  It's more on the principle of folks who get angry and "see red" where for a brief bit of time they just don't think and just react and cycle around  in a thing.  And more importantly they tend to make folks do incredibly short-sighted stupid things because they cannot think of anything outside of the immediate. 

I've had emotional loops that last for weeks.  I can hyper-activate specific brain regions as long as I choose!  The downside is the physiological burnout that eventually occurrs.  After a month, I'm totally drained and need another month to recover.

Also, when using a RAEG loop (I activate that for hard outdoor labor), I risk severely damaging my muscles and tendons, as pain sensation and neuromuscular restrictions on contractile force are overridden (yes, it is rather like the Primary Lotus from "Naruto"..)

Quote from: Alondro on February 01, 2013, 10:38:19 AM
I've had emotional loops that last for weeks.  I can hyper-activate specific brain regions as long as I choose!  The downside is the physiological burnout that eventually occurrs.  After a month, I'm totally drained and need another month to recover.

Also, when using a RAEG loop (I activate that for hard outdoor labor), I risk severely damaging my muscles and tendons, as pain sensation and neuromuscular restrictions on contractile force are overridden (yes, it is rather like the Primary Lotus from "Naruto"..)

Y'know, I sometimes forget that guys like you do exist.

But yes, some people have the capability to "shut off" or "turn on" certain parts of their brains. It is a rather rair quality, but not impossible. However, as Alondro stated, there are some serious risks involved with some aspects of this ability, and some facets are easier to use and control than others. Take, for instance, the ability to voluntarily cut off one's pain receptors. It's difficult to learn, but otherwise a very simple task once the process is known. But, as stated in the quote above, the hyper-activation of any part of the brain poses serious risks.

Scientists say we only use about 10% of our brain at any given time. That is because that is the absolute limit of safety that our body can handle. Any more, and we run the risk of our brain, well, bursting into flame. Each action we make, from breathing to running, sets off a series of electrical synapses that run through our nervous system up to our brain, where most of said synapses occur. If we were to push our brains to functioning past that 10% limit, without reprocussion, on a daily basis, we'd literally fry our brains. That's why Alondro has to rest after he performs each hyper-activaion.

Of course, for your sake, Al, I'd suggest you do this more sparingly from now on, and try to limit your loops to about 10-30 minutes. I may not be some neuro-scientist, but it sounds like you could be causing some serious damage to your brain :<

Going back briefly to Dee fiddling with the curtains--I thought those blue appendages were Matilda working her way into the Intertubes until today, when they didn't disappear along with the side-story frame. Too many fingers anyway.

Quote from: Spirit Studios on February 01, 2013, 02:27:36 PM

Quote from: Alondro on February 01, 2013, 10:38:19 AM
I've had emotional loops that last for weeks.  I can hyper-activate specific brain regions as long as I choose!  The downside is the physiological burnout that eventually occurrs.  After a month, I'm totally drained and need another month to recover.

Also, when using a RAEG loop (I activate that for hard outdoor labor), I risk severely damaging my muscles and tendons, as pain sensation and neuromuscular restrictions on contractile force are overridden (yes, it is rather like the Primary Lotus from "Naruto"..)

Y'know, I sometimes forget that guys like you do exist.

But yes, some people have the capability to "shut off" or "turn on" certain parts of their brains. It is a rather rair quality, but not impossible. However, as Alondro stated, there are some serious risks involved with some aspects of this ability, and some facets are easier to use and control than others. Take, for instance, the ability to voluntarily cut off one's pain receptors. It's difficult to learn, but otherwise a very simple task once the process is known. But, as stated in the quote above, the hyper-activation of any part of the brain poses serious risks.

Wow, so Alondro is like a real life Alpha?  That's why I love the TV show Alphas, because some of the mind based powers in that show actually do exist in real life.  I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more far-fetched ones also existed if those videos of monks doing amazing things from intense mental focus are actually real.

I always love seeing examples of mind over matter, as they always blow my mind. :eager

Quote from: Spirit Studios on February 01, 2013, 02:27:36 PM
Scientists say we only use about 10% of our brain at any given time.

Pseudoscience. I'm a scientist and I say this is BS.

Quote from: Nino on February 03, 2013, 08:52:33 PM

Quote from: Spirit Studios on February 01, 2013, 02:27:36 PM
Scientists say we only use about 10% of our brain at any given time.

Pseudoscience. I'm a scientist and I say this is BS.

Lol, I always thought that claim was....weak.  :mowtongue

The 10% brain usage is infact an urban legend, We do not know exactly how much of the brain we use, but we do know that when it is most active (dreaming I think)

Also since Alrondo has brought up odd brain things...

I dream every time I fall asleep, even if it is a 5 min bus drive, and I remember them all.... Not sure what it is but I quite enjoy it, I can even remember dreams 14 years back, back when I was still learning how to speak.

Also what Is the condition that you have called alrondo?

Fascinating. I don't dream EVERYtime I fall asleep, but I do dream very often, most nights. And if I wake up in the middle of the dream I can remember it, although it is usually along the lines of "Wait-what? That makes no sense!" Even within the context of the dream!  :mowhappy But they are interesting usually. Used to get nasty nightmares when I was stationed in Germany in 2008-2009...and Sleep Paralysis which was freaky as hell. And I remember my nightmares still. But really, the base used to be a Nazi base, so was totally possibly haunted.

All of my dreams are disorderly, (as it should be), I remember 4 years ago about a especially crazy dream:

It started out when a game of "the floor is lava" turned real when the floor actually turned to lava, so I had to escape on a lego airplane but It crash landed into a river, which was actually stone, and then I discovered I had no legs and was trying to escape from being crushed under a massive foot... and then I woke up.

As I said, my dreams are quite crazy.  xD

I've actually had plenty of dreams where I realized it was a dream. In some of those, I made it perfectly clear to some of the characters and in others I started screwing around with the physics of the dream world (I didn't aim that shot right, DOESN'T MATTER! I STILL HIT!).

Quote from: Eboreg on February 04, 2013, 01:40:33 PM
I've actually had plenty of dreams where I realized it was a dream. In some of those, I made it perfectly clear to some of the characters and in others I started screwing around with the physics of the dream world (I didn't aim that shot right, DOESN'T MATTER! I STILL HIT!).

lucid dreaming.

I have heard of lucid dreaming, but never, once in my life, have I ever known I was in a dream, no matter how...uh....weird it got. It always made perfect sense to me until I wake up wondering what I had smoked.  :mowtongue

Quote from: Zebra Bug on February 05, 2013, 01:50:46 AM
I have heard of lucid dreaming, but never, once in my life, have I ever known I was in a dream, no matter how...uh....weird it got. It always made perfect sense to me until I wake up wondering what I had smoked.  :mowtongue

that is how dreams are :P