I love the intrinsic hilarity of the recent strips.
"You killed me!"
"You seem to be alive to me."
"I'm in a robotic panther body!"
"But you're still breathing... no wait, let me rephrase that..."
Yeah, there's a certain amount of ironic interaction, there. ;-]
Panel 9, funny as it is, makes me wonder. How does one point with a feral paw? Ren found a way, and it worked out.
That is just one of the things I like about reading PF, seeing what he will come up with next. :)
I find it funny how Jakob/Kristofer and Joshua have nearly the same expression while Page is looking like nothing's happened.
Still a nice progression from calm to shock in this order Page, R-Mac and Dorcan are about the same, Niall, Kristofer/Jakob, Joshua and the most shocked Wils.
I think he might be wrong that Nialli did it, he doesn't look anything like the Wolf who killed him.
Or... maybe Nialli did do it, considering this (http://project-future.org/strip.php?strip=117)
Wait what?
Quote from: Daniel Boomhauer on August 14, 2010, 03:06:23 PM
I think he might be wrong that Nialli did it, he doesn't look anything like the Wolf who killed him.
:shapeshifters
Quote from: Sofox on August 14, 2010, 06:11:08 PM
Quote from: Daniel Boomhauer on August 14, 2010, 03:06:23 PM
I think he might be wrong that Nialli did it, he doesn't look anything like the Wolf who killed him.
:shapeshifters
LOL, yeah. I was thinking about that after I posted that, hence the edit.
Kinda hard to know what was edited.
What I tend to do is if I add extra text to a post, I perpend it with an "EDIT: "
Quote from: Sofox on August 15, 2010, 06:03:45 PM
Kinda hard to know what was edited.
What I tend to do is if I add extra text to a post, I perpend it with an "EDIT: "
I sometimes do that. (and that's Prepend)
I'm not sure we'll be able to update tonight, but I'll try. It all depends when Ren finishes the line-art.
It's all right.
We won't froth at the mouth if it's a little late.
Sometimes it takes just a extra bit of time to get lines just right.
Quote from: Drathorin on August 20, 2010, 02:28:43 PM
We won't froth at the mouth if it's a little late.
You might find that interesting:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,5817.msg270914.html#msg270914
So... we won't froth at the mouth but you will?
But that post talks about the artist....
Wait, you do do the drawing yes?
Quote from: Drathorin on August 20, 2010, 05:33:58 PM
Wait, you do do the drawing yes?
Since you ask, I turn this:
http://www.project-future.org/stuff/things/Project%20Future%20Page%20130-original.png
Into this:
http://www.project-future.org/strips/comic/strip130.png
...which takes about 6-10 solid hours each page, depending on complexity and how much of the lineart has to be touched up - if Ren was in a hurry, this can take quite a while time. I also design the basic layout, spend several hours a day organising the thing and typeset it when it's ready.
I can't honestly say how many hours Ren spends on the lines, but since the last half of the process is my responsibility I have a good sense of how late it gets, and - rightly or wrongly - I do suffer from the syndrome mentioned in that post.
I'm just curious, as I've seen Ren's lineart on his newer pieces and the inked lines look very very different from the ones that appear in the strip.
Wasn't sure if he does pencils then you ink over, or what.
But at least now I know why The comic felt kinda disjointed.
I didn't realize he only drew certain parts instead of the whole thing.
Edit: Forgot to add this thought before hitting post. Fingers got ahead of the thought process.
One reason why I find for something like a comic is that it's generally better not to worry too much about the deadline. I assume you're like most people and like quality.
You know when putting together audio or even the quality of the hardware or storage devices, if one part of the finished product is rushed and only half assed, a brand new tape can snap, or just come out sounding like poo.
Part of the art of putting together something is to know how much to focus on details, and how much to push it out the door.
Quote from: Gabi on August 20, 2010, 03:10:12 PM
So... we won't froth at the mouth but you will?
yes, drath froths almost daily now.. there is no cure for it... and we may have to put him down.
Quote from: Drathorin on August 20, 2010, 07:48:17 PM
I'm just curious, as I've seen Ren's lineart on his newer pieces and the inked lines look very very different from the ones that appear in the strip.
Wasn't sure if he does pencils then you ink over, or what.
He inks them with a ballpoint and sends me 1-bit scans. It might be interesting to see what happens if he sends me grey levels instead, we'll have to try it sometime.
What Ren has taken to doing recently for his FA uploads is using a different colouring technique, where he does the thing in pencil only. He scans it greyscale, converts the white parts to alpha levels and then paints the color on a layer underneath. This gives an interesting look, because all the rough pencil parts are left behind. It's also quicker than inking the pencil, but it's not the sort of look I wanted for the comic.
That said, I did use the technique in-comic once when the guest art failed to materialise (though I sill hold out hope it will someday):
http://www.project-future.org/stuff/things/pf107_4.png (I hate that table. Perspective is my enemy.)
The idea in that case was to try and make the flashback look different to the rest of the strip, and this time I went for a slightly ragged, sketchy look. Usually we try to use a guest artist, but as I say, it didn't pan out. Kind of fell flat when it was shrunk down though, it looked too similar to the others.
Usually it would look more like this:
http://www.project-future.org/stuff/things/pf106_3.png
QuotePart of the art of putting together something is to know how much to focus on details, and how much to push it out the door.
Yes. In this case I'm a bit annoyed because it's fallen on a cliffhanger ending. Also, the last couple of updates were on time because Ren drew them in bulk at the Village because he had nothing else to do ;-)
EDIT:
I do now have the full lineart for this page, it should be up later today.
Okay folks, here you go
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 20, 2010, 06:49:46 PM
Quote from: Drathorin on August 20, 2010, 05:33:58 PM
Wait, you do do the drawing yes?
Since you ask, I turn this:
http://www.project-future.org/stuff/things/Project%20Future%20Page%20130-original.png
Into this:
http://www.project-future.org/strips/comic/strip130.png
...which takes about 6-10 solid hours each page, depending on complexity and how much of the lineart has to be touched up - if Ren was in a hurry, this can take quite a while time. I also design the basic layout, spend several hours a day organising the thing and typeset it when it's ready.
I can't honestly say how many hours Ren spends on the lines, but since the last half of the process is my responsibility I have a good sense of how late it gets, and - rightly or wrongly - I do suffer from the syndrome mentioned in that post.
How on earth does it take you 6-10 hours to turn Rens artwork into something windows 3.1 could be ashamed of, where do you find the time to eat, poop or sleep?
Quote from: Alteisentier on August 21, 2010, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 20, 2010, 06:49:46 PM
Quote from: Drathorin on August 20, 2010, 05:33:58 PM
Wait, you do do the drawing yes?
Since you ask, I turn this:
http://www.project-future.org/stuff/things/Project%20Future%20Page%20130-original.png
Into this:
http://www.project-future.org/strips/comic/strip130.png
...which takes about 6-10 solid hours each page, depending on complexity and how much of the lineart has to be touched up - if Ren was in a hurry, this can take quite a while time. I also design the basic layout, spend several hours a day organising the thing and typeset it when it's ready.
I can't honestly say how many hours Ren spends on the lines, but since the last half of the process is my responsibility I have a good sense of how late it gets, and - rightly or wrongly - I do suffer from the syndrome mentioned in that post.
How on earth does it take you 6-10 hours to turn Rens artwork into something windows 3.1 could be ashamed of, where do you find the time to eat, poop or sleep?
The coloring looks good, and very un-win3.1 like.
It can take a lot of time if the lines are disjoint as the gaps need to be filled in by hand.
Not to mention colouring n panels with m items takes much more time than just one picture, however detailed
I wonder if you are such an expert to show something yourself.
Quote from: danman on August 21, 2010, 07:54:52 PM
Quote from: Alteisentier on August 21, 2010, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 20, 2010, 06:49:46 PM
Quote from: Drathorin on August 20, 2010, 05:33:58 PM
Wait, you do do the drawing yes?
Since you ask, I turn this:
http://www.project-future.org/stuff/things/Project%20Future%20Page%20130-original.png
Into this:
http://www.project-future.org/strips/comic/strip130.png
...which takes about 6-10 solid hours each page, depending on complexity and how much of the lineart has to be touched up - if Ren was in a hurry, this can take quite a while time. I also design the basic layout, spend several hours a day organising the thing and typeset it when it's ready.
I can't honestly say how many hours Ren spends on the lines, but since the last half of the process is my responsibility I have a good sense of how late it gets, and - rightly or wrongly - I do suffer from the syndrome mentioned in that post.
How on earth does it take you 6-10 hours to turn Rens artwork into something windows 3.1 could be ashamed of, where do you find the time to eat, poop or sleep?
The coloring looks good, and very un-win3.1 like.
It can take a lot of time if the lines are disjoint as the gaps need to be filled in by hand.
Not to mention colouring n panels with m items takes much more time than just one picture, however detailed
I wonder if you are such an expert to show something yourself.
Hahahahahahahaha.
lets see. Hm. Over five years experience in traditional art, digital art, and design. Two years in collage as a digital and traditional art student. And more knowledge than you can obviously comprehend. Sure. Go look at my art thread if you want to see.
Quote from: Alteisentier on August 21, 2010, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: danman on August 21, 2010, 07:54:52 PM
Quote from: Alteisentier on August 21, 2010, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 20, 2010, 06:49:46 PM
Quote from: Drathorin on August 20, 2010, 05:33:58 PM
Wait, you do do the drawing yes?
Since you ask, I turn this:
http://www.project-future.org/stuff/things/Project%20Future%20Page%20130-original.png
Into this:
http://www.project-future.org/strips/comic/strip130.png
...which takes about 6-10 solid hours each page, depending on complexity and how much of the lineart has to be touched up - if Ren was in a hurry, this can take quite a while time. I also design the basic layout, spend several hours a day organising the thing and typeset it when it's ready.
I can't honestly say how many hours Ren spends on the lines, but since the last half of the process is my responsibility I have a good sense of how late it gets, and - rightly or wrongly - I do suffer from the syndrome mentioned in that post.
How on earth does it take you 6-10 hours to turn Rens artwork into something windows 3.1 could be ashamed of, where do you find the time to eat, poop or sleep?
The coloring looks good, and very un-win3.1 like.
It can take a lot of time if the lines are disjoint as the gaps need to be filled in by hand.
Not to mention colouring n panels with m items takes much more time than just one picture, however detailed
I wonder if you are such an expert to show something yourself.
Hahahahahahahaha.
lets see. Hm. Over five years experience in traditional art, digital art, and design. Two years in collage as a digital and traditional art student. And more knowledge than you can obviously comprehend. Sure. Go look at my art thread if you want to see.
That's it then!
Tape. like me has nothing to do with such things - he is a software engineer.
I am sure he can draw better than you can code.....
EDIT: I saw your thread before and liked the zergling... however all of the stuff is just lineart - does not say anythign about colouring which is what we were speaking about
Altei seems to be in a troll-y mood... Dunno him well enough to tell if that's just how he is or not, though. Anyone able to clarify this for me?
No no, he's just pretty terrible at this regardless, i really want to know how he can take something at such a gigantic resolution, nearly professional art resolutions, and manage to make it look as awful and jagged as that. It's truly impressive. I'm just boggled how the comic has gone on so long and it's never been fixed, improved. or even worked on.
Quote from: Inumo on August 21, 2010, 08:20:08 PM
Altei seems to be in a troll-y mood... Dunno him well enough to tell if that's just how he is or not, though. Anyone able to clarify this for me?
There's a Llearch certified disclaimer in my signature.
Quote from: Inumo on August 21, 2010, 08:20:08 PM
Altei seems to be in a troll-y mood... Dunno him well enough to tell if that's just how he is or not, though. Anyone able to clarify this for me?
Heh... back home we say that he has awaken arse-up.
as far as i am concerned PF looks fine , not to mention the content is good.
Order of the stick has worse graphics, and people read it
Quote from: Inumo on August 21, 2010, 08:20:08 PM
Altei seems to be in a troll-y mood... Dunno him well enough to tell if that's just how he is or not, though. Anyone able to clarify this for me?
I know him, and he's actually truly boggled (along with several other people) about how the whole end result turns up.
It's only just being talked about now since I was talking to tape about it.
Like, There are people that have their main job as something like a call center agent. Yet they can draw masterpieces. It's not solely about what 'job' you have that enables ability.
But yeah, I do wonder what the comic would look like if Ren did all the art and tape supplied him with scripts.
Quote from: Alteisentier on August 21, 2010, 08:20:24 PM
Quote from: Inumo on August 21, 2010, 08:20:08 PM
Altei seems to be in a troll-y mood... Dunno him well enough to tell if that's just how he is or not, though. Anyone able to clarify this for me?
There's a Llearch certified disclaimer in my signature.
There's a rather bold line between brutal honesty and trolling. Brutal honesty is saying, "This comic looks ugly." Trolling is saying, "This comic looks ugly. How could you do something this awful? Why does it take you 6-10 hours to do something so horrendous? How could you @%&! up the line art so much that it still looks this bad?" If you weren't intending to be insulting, you'd stop at your first post, and not even bring it up over in Tapewolf's art thread, especially considering that it's irrelevant over there... I'm gonna stop before I get into a flame war...
Quote from: Drathorin on August 21, 2010, 08:30:25 PM
But yeah, I do wonder what the comic would look like if Ren did all the art and tape supplied him with scripts.
I gather it would look like it was only updating once every two months due to Ren being a slow-face. *badump-ch* :U
I keed! I KEED!
Quote from: Inumo on August 21, 2010, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: Alteisentier on August 21, 2010, 08:20:24 PM
Quote from: Inumo on August 21, 2010, 08:20:08 PM
Altei seems to be in a troll-y mood... Dunno him well enough to tell if that's just how he is or not, though. Anyone able to clarify this for me?
There's a Llearch certified disclaimer in my signature.
There's a rather bold line between brutal honesty and trolling. Brutal honesty is saying, "This comic looks ugly." Trolling is saying, "This comic looks ugly. How could you do something this awful? Why does it take you 6-10 hours to do something so horrendous? How could you @%&! up the line art so much that it still looks this bad?" If you weren't intending to be insulting, you'd stop at your first post, and not even bring it up over in Tapewolf's art thread, especially considering that it's irrelevant over there... I'm gonna stop before I get into a flame war...
No no, that's not trolling; that's called answering questions. 6-10 hours for that is absolutely astoundingly mind boggling, you do not understand how crazy that amount of time for a few lines and using the fill tool is. I really want to know how he manages it.
And the comic does look pretty ugly, I'd rather just see Ren's line art, it's is valid criticism, even if you don't like it.
And why is it irrelevant in an art thread? Why can I not criticism art in an art thread? The rules state I can. So I'm pretty sure I can.
I see what you did there Amber.
I see it. :3
All joking aside though, I'm going to step in and be a big mod bully and recommend that even if people are giving honest criticism, to try to at least attempt to be a bit more sugar-coating with their horse pills.
Because keep in mind the most important thing that criticism is supposed to do is it is supposed to help those who read it improve what they are working on. If what you are saying is doing nothing but making the person feel bad about what they are doing...then no...you aren't giving an honest criticism, you are being mean.
Quote from: Amber Williams on August 21, 2010, 08:38:22 PM
All joking aside though, I'm going to step in and be a big mod bully and recommend that even if people are giving honest criticism, to try to at least attempt to be a bit more sugar-coating with their horse pills.
Because keep in mind the most important thing that criticism is supposed to do is it is supposed to help those who read it improve what they are working on. If what you are saying is doing nothing but making the person feel bad about what they are doing...then no...you aren't giving an honest criticism, you are being mean.
Alright alright, you have a point there. I'll blame this one on being a bit tired and having been nudged here to take a look at the art. I'll calm down a bit on the ranting, but I would really like to know just how he does this, so he can at least improve on it.
Quote from: Inumo on August 21, 2010, 08:32:35 PM
There's a rather bold line between brutal honesty and trolling. Brutal honesty is saying, "This comic looks ugly." Trolling is saying, "This comic looks ugly. How could you do something this awful? Why does it take you 6-10 hours to do something so horrendous? How could you @%&! up the line art so much that it still looks this bad?" If you weren't intending to be insulting, you'd stop at your first post, and not even bring it up over in Tapewolf's art thread, especially considering that it's irrelevant over there... I'm gonna stop before I get into a flame war...
*You* are going to stop it how exactly? :erk
Quote from: Alteisentier on August 21, 2010, 08:35:08 PM
No no, that's not trolling; that's called answering questions. 6-10 hours for that is absolutely astoundingly mind boggling, you do not understand how crazy that amount of time for a few lines and using the fill tool is. I really want to know how he manages it.
And the comic does look pretty ugly, I'd rather just see Ren's line art, it's is valid criticism, even if you don't like it.
If he doesn't have a tablet and all the fancy things and does it by mouse, i can clearly see how it can take a few hours.
Or does your 5 years of experience grant you super-quick and milimetre-accurate wrist movements too?
(allright , i concede - you get those from Starcraft :mowhappy )
EDIT: quotetrim
Rather than clutter this thread further still, I have posted the description of how Project Future is assembled in the Library.
It is here:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,7697.msg337201.html#msg337201
It also contains the results of my investigation into the aliasing problem, which I suspect is the root cause of the jagged edges which Alt is complaining about.
By changing the rendering chain I have been able to reduce it considerably, but at the cost of making the character outlines less bold and making the comic look slightly less vivid, at least to my eyes.
I am thinking of posting a poll in the PF section about that, to see which version people prefer.
Quote from: Alteisentier on August 21, 2010, 08:20:24 PM
There's a Llearch certified disclaimer in my signature.
I should point out, I didn't certify this disclaimer at all. I merely suggested it might be better to include one, and accepted the one supplied as being better than none at all...