Communications lost.
Wow, Dan is a goober. Poor Abel, though I can't help but feel that this evens the score with Abel's stand-offishness.
On a side-note I think the difference between Dan and Abel's builds are now obvious, and they both still look good. *thumbs up*
*goes back to lurking*
Operational error, windows has shut down to prevent damage to your system. If this is the first time this has happened...... :B
Dan is naive, yes? :P
*jawdrops*
Wow. WOW. Just, wow.
Yeah, Abel and I had roughly the same reaction here. Seriously, Dan, you need a HUGE info-dump right about now. Amber, can we just skip Abel's Story this week just so that we can see Abel knocking some sense into Dan? Please?
Oh Dan, Dan, Danny, DANIEL, surely you know it's okay to be gay? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdr9CtkAkm8) : 3
~K. *: )
Stupidity is a powerful force.
Use it wisely.
...
Wait...
Because of the clothes the friendship was lost.
seems to me that Abel might need the brain specialist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M68GeL8PafE) >:3
Did you notice how much effort Abmer did for the baground for this update?
She has been doing that more and more lately.
For some reason, I must applaud Dan's ability to cause a hardware crash inside of a living being. But on the other hand, I need to give Dan a nice clocking with for the words he used.
correlation is not causation, Dan.
Quote from: InsanityRequiem on May 02, 2010, 04:00:57 AM
For some reason, I must applaud Dan's ability to cause a hardware crash inside of a living being. But on the other hand, I need to give Dan a nice clocking with for the words he used.
Abel is exaggregating, of course. He spent, like 300-something years in students dormitory, so he can handle MUCH more.
Dan's kind of an idiot! The slightly homophobic dense/misinformed tough guy character always changes his point of views by the end though.
You know, I really like the Dan/Abel relationship dynamics though. They really have clashing personalities and it's always funny to see how they irritate one another. I mean, I could imagine Abel being difficult to get along with in general, but some people would have the personality to be able to let things go and Dan's not really one of them. Conversely Abel's sarcastic and unhelpfulness just egg Dan on more.
I've heard there's some truth in the idea that only children tend to not be able to get along with each other and get along best with non-confrontational younger siblings. And Dan and Abel don't get along with each other but both get along well with Jyrras. Weird!
Heh, the Clan of Pain indeed; Dan can cause paralyzing pain with just a couple of sentences.
Quote from: Kattuccino on May 02, 2010, 04:18:39 AMDan's kind of an idiot! The slightly homophobic dense/misinformed tough guy character always changes his point of views by the end though.
I wouldn't even say that it IS homophobic at all.
Just because he hasn't got a clue what causes 'teh gay' in people, doesn't mean that he thinks it's BAD. He.... just would rather continue fancying girls.
I have an IRL friend just like Dan.
Not clueless about homosexuality, but just clueless in general. This was an absolutly perfect time for this update to come around as he's been getting more and more clueless lately...
I even have a friend who acts like Abel. A lot. All the time. And he doesn't read DMFA (I don't think. At least, not anymore...)
Regardless, I can't wait to see what happens next.
Correlation does not imply causation! Also if that is all it takes to hurt Abel's brain, he may have more than one major weakness.
Quote from: Jairus on May 02, 2010, 03:33:53 AM
Yeah, Abel and I had roughly the same reaction here. Seriously, Dan, you need a HUGE info-dump right about now.
I think Dan managed to make Abel just give up. For little things, Abel doesn't mind giving a detailed explanation why Dan is being ignroant/prejudiced/naive/etc. But for something like this, Abel just gave up.
Before everyone rags too much on Dan, keep in mind the age and experience difference here. Abel is, what, about 18 times older than Dan? Of course Dan is not going to know diddly about interpersonal relationships and how people discover themselves. He's just trained as an adventurer, the thinking of which goes: See A, decide if A looks like a threat, stab A before it can react.
Not much time for reflection or observing the world in his background.
OMG, I just lol'ed so hard my husband asked what was so funny! Of course he didn't understand it, 'cause he hasn't been reading the comic, so... Muahahaha, inside joke for me!
But really, this was awesomely drawn, the whole 'what the heck am I gonna say, words utterly fail me'-look in Abel's face and his whole body language... LOL
It hurts. ^^
I would like to thank Dan for forcing my brain to attempt to strangle itself, then shut down.
However, it is interesting to note Dan's worldview. As an adventurer, I doubt Dan had much time to consider other aspects of the world around him beyond "Find evil, stab evil, repeat cycle." Although his mind would still have to make a huge leap of logic to come to that conclusion, it is a slightly smaller leap than if he had an expanded worldview.
Besides, Dan is, well, Dan. Can't expect him to come to good conclusions all the time. Or er...half the time, either.
Ha, wow. I guess if I grew up without knowing any gay folks, I might end up thinking the same things, but.... man, I hope not.
On another note, I've seen this kind of situation a lot- where someone is so horribly wrong you don't know where to begin correcting them. I definitely don't envy Abel here. It's not like Dan's going to believe him if he tries anyway...
Where's Alexi? Maybe she could fix this. Possibly with a hammer.
Quote from: Captain on May 02, 2010, 04:03:47 AM
correlation is not causation, Dan.
Lies! Lies and slander!
This update is abso-frickin-lutely brilliant, I actually lol'ed. :D
Dan does have a point, though, painfully wrong as it is. Jyrras
was perfectly normal, then he met Abel, Abel gave him a make-over, and now Jyrras is gay. There are no rational arguments that Abel can use in reply to this. I love it! Also, it fits very nicely in with Dan's theory that all cubi are evil. Merlitz even saw Abel putting an evil mind-controlling spell on Jyrras!
Be careful, Abel, stupid can be contagious, too.
"Don't argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. What's more, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Oh, Dan. WIS was your dump stat, wasn't it?
I am adoring the New Improved Beefy Dan, by the way. Really looks suitable for a retired-adventurer type.
I think someone really has to tell Dan that homosexuality is not a disease. It can't be caught by air, water, physical contact, or any other way you can catch a disease.
Hmm Amber seems to have smudged this comic a bit, if you squint a little you see this red discolouration around Dan's neck area. In fact, it seems to have surfaced in every drawing of Dan ever... Odd...
Quote from: Rambon on May 02, 2010, 09:00:24 AM
I think someone really has to tell Dan that homosexuality is not a disease. It can't be caught by air, water, physical contact, or any other way you can catch a disease.
So inherited diseases, such as cystic fibrosis, mongoloidism, multiple sclerosis, and muscle dystrophy are just figments of my imagination?
Ow...just...ow
Quote from: danman on May 02, 2010, 09:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rambon on May 02, 2010, 09:00:24 AM
I think someone really has to tell Dan that homosexuality is not a disease. It can't be caught by air, water, physical contact, or any other way you can catch a disease.
So inherited diseases, such as cystic fibrosis, mongoloidism, multiple sclerosis, and muscle dystrophy are just figments of my imagination?
Ow...just...ow
Personally, I would say that inheritance counts as a way to catch a disease. But then it all descends into genetics, which to put it lightly, are not my forte.
Why the heck did the conversation have to turn away from the subject of the Soulstealers?
Biased Dan is biased! But yeah, he's blaming Abel for Jyrras being (potentially) gay too?! YOU FAIL PSYCHOLOGY 4EVAH! How much you wanna bet Dan somehow thinks he's turning gay and blames THAT on Abel as well?
And OMG! They're (almost) wearing the same outfit! FASHION FAUX PAS!
Quote from: Rambon on May 02, 2010, 09:00:24 AM
I think someone really has to tell Dan that homosexuality is not a disease. It can't be caught by air, water, physical contact, or any other way you can catch a disease.
Just you wait, some drug company will develop a drug for it (whether it works or not) and get legislation passed calling it a disease, requiring their drug to treat it.
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 02, 2010, 09:33:24 AM
How much you wanna bet Dan somehow thinks he's turning gay and blames THAT on Abel as well?
Naw, he just thought his
wardrobe was turning gay.
Quote from: Netrogo on May 02, 2010, 09:18:40 AM
Hmm Amber seems to have smudged this comic a bit, if you squint a little you see this red discolouration around Dan's neck area. In fact, it seems to have surfaced in every drawing of Dan ever... Odd...
Naah, Dan can't be a redneck. He doesn't find his own sister (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_692.php) attractive.
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 02, 2010, 09:33:24 AM
And OMG! They're (almost) wearing the same outfit! FASHION FAUX PAS!
This only applies if you're female or gay.
... oh wait ... :eek :dface
:D
Oh man. I love Abel's expression in the third panel. Its just...huzzahavahwaaaa?
Also, rock those Bellbottoms, Dan. Rock 'em.
Putting the theme of Dan's competance or enforced-by-author- lack-therof aside.....let's not forget that Jyrras SEEMED to be fine, if somewhat repressed....and chronologically, like Dan said...one makeover session with a mind-reading, emotion-manipulating cubi later, he pretty much comes roaring out of the closet. I'd be suspicious too. And no, even though "teh ghey" is not some cumminicable disease....a cubi with an affinity for misery DID in fact seriously influence Jyrras's decision and just HAPPENED to lead Jyrras to confront multiple "crush-targets" that had no romantic intrest in him whatsoever...thus hightening his personal misery.
nothing suspicious about THAT.
the beauty of it is, Abel may not have even conciously known what he was doing............
Quote from: chaotik on May 02, 2010, 11:15:16 AM
Putting the theme of Dan's competance or enforced-by-author- lack-therof aside.....let's not forget that Jyrras SEEMED to be fine, if somewhat repressed....and chronologically, like Dan said...one makeover session with a mind-reading, emotion-manipulating cubi later, he pretty much comes roaring out of the closet. I'd be suspicious too. And no, even though "teh ghey" is not some cumminicable disease....a cubi with an affinity for misery DID in fact seriously influence Jyrras's decision and just HAPPENED to lead Jyrras to confront multiple "crush-targets" that had no romantic intrest in him whatsoever...thus hightening his personal misery.
nothing suspicious about THAT.
the beauty of it is, Abel may not have even conciously known what he was doing............
He tried something like that. (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_648.php) It didn't work.
And he reached one conclusion.
Cubi can't emotion jammer Beings. (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_649.php)
Quote from: Shade on May 02, 2010, 05:03:21 AMQuote from: Kattuccino on May 02, 2010, 04:18:39 AMDan's kind of an idiot! The slightly homophobic dense/misinformed tough guy character always changes his point of views by the end though.
I wouldn't even say that it IS homophobic at all.
Just because he hasn't got a clue what causes 'teh gay' in people, doesn't mean that he thinks it's BAD. He.... just would rather continue fancying girls.
Hmmm.... Possibly, possibly...
OTOH, we know that Dan is a racist, by his own self-realization. Maybe Amber's trying to show more of Dan's ugly/bigoted side...
Quote from: Arcblade on May 02, 2010, 07:30:46 AM
Ha, wow. I guess if I grew up without knowing any gay folks, I might end up thinking the same things, but.... man, I hope not.
You're not going to like what I'm about to say. And it's not a statement against your character, Arcblade, but a statement of fact, empirically supported by personal experience.
People who grow up without knowing any LGBT-folks dont' end up thinking the same things that Dan's spouting in the comic. They end up thinking things
that are much worse.
I wonder if ignorance really is bliss. Maybe Dan could tell us. :rolleyes
Quote from: AmigaDragon on May 02, 2010, 09:44:27 AM
Quote from: Rambon on May 02, 2010, 09:00:24 AM
I think someone really has to tell Dan that homosexuality is not a disease. It can't be caught by air, water, physical contact, or any other way you can catch a disease.
Just you wait, some drug company will develop a drug for it (whether it works or not) and get legislation passed calling it a disease, requiring their drug to treat it.
And then the masses of gay-folk saying that the drug should be illegal and that they choose to be gay not that they are ill... etc. You get the idea.
Dan's first time talking about gays-Third panel (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_747.php)
How does this match with what he's been saying since he put that shirt on? It's like he's a completely different person....Wait....
Crap, if Dan might be on to something here. :erk Nooo! Then the Republicans win! (No offense if you're a republican :3)
Quote from: Rambon on May 02, 2010, 01:23:43 PM
And then the masses of gay-folk saying that the drug should be illegal and that they choose to be gay not that they are ill... etc. You get the idea.
I doubt that gay-folk would say the drug should be
illegal. Forced usage of the drug should, however, be illegal. Even if a person is dying you can't force them to take treatment they don't want.
However- unless they also come upw ith a drug to cure heterosexuality, I'd have some issues with such a drug existing because in itself that's discriminatory.
*sigh* I'm with Abel there....
Okay, first Dan's a racist, now he's a homophobe, and we already knew he was a sexist....
Does he have ANY saving graces left...? :P
(face to the izz palm, palm to the izz face)
Dan...remember the flower-arrangement incident with Merlitz?
This should turn out interesting...
Quote from: GenraCrimscon on May 02, 2010, 01:30:46 PM
Dan's first time talking about gays-Third panel (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_747.php)
How does this match with what he's been saying since he put that shirt on? It's like he's a completely different person....Wait....
Crap, if Dan might be on to something here. :erk Nooo! Then the Republicans win! (No offense if you're a republican :3)
I was wrong, sorry. Pretty sure this is the first time Dan says anything about gayness. (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_279.php) And he still seems mostly okay with it!
I think Dan just needs more reasons to dislike Abel, and anyway that Abel is trying to change Dan, either by changing hiim directly, or those he cares about.
Well I don't think Dan has anything wrong with anyone being gay. I think he has a problem with someone trying to turn him gay. Although I think he has a weird view of how people become gay. Just pondering the possibilities, not claiming to be right :3.
Quote from: Jasonrevall on May 02, 2010, 02:11:04 PM
Well I don't think Dan has anything wrong with anyone being gay. I think he has a problem with someone trying to turn him gay. Although I think he has a weird view of how people become gay. Just pondering the possibilities, not claiming to be right :3.
I agree. This is less a matter of "I hate gays" and more a matter of "I hate Abel" on Dan's part. He doesn't trust Abel at all, though he's learning to be less racist about it, and we already know he hates being turned into something he knows he's not (or doesn't want to be). So, yeah.
Quote from: Black_angel on May 02, 2010, 01:49:10 PM
(face to the izz palm, palm to the izz face)
Dan...remember the flower-arrangement incident with Merlitz?
This should turn out interesting...
Funny you mentioned Merlitz. (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_200.php)
This is why hatred brings one down.
He's so determined to hate Abel that he stoops to racism, homophobia, anything--just to have an excuse to hate him.
I hope he can see the light someday....
Quote from: Shade on May 02, 2010, 05:03:21 AM
Quote from: Kattuccino on May 02, 2010, 04:18:39 AMDan's kind of an idiot! The slightly homophobic dense/misinformed tough guy character always changes his point of views by the end though.
I wouldn't even say that it IS homophobic at all.
Just because he hasn't got a clue what causes 'teh gay' in people, doesn't mean that he thinks it's BAD. He.... just would rather continue fancying girls.
Ah, you have a point! I think it does appear to be homophobic because Dan is basically saying that Jyrras was "normal" before and now he is aberrant because he's gay. I suppose technically though it is more normal to be straight - that is, the majority of people are heterosexual. It really depends if "normal" here has a negative connotation (which given the context he's using it in I sorta think this is the case) or if it's being used as a synonym for "typical."
There is sort of a dichotomy here between Dan's attitude before in the Jyrras conversation and Dan's attitude now. It makes perfect sense though - even if Dan did not feel completely comfortable with his friend being gay, he might have wanted to hide this in front of him so Jyrras didn't think he was a bigot. I think it's more that he just is trying to make Abel the scapegoat for every new problem or conflict that arises now because it's easy to blame someone you don't like for difficult issues.
Anyway I think it's the mark of a great writer to be able to make characters that have beliefs you don't agree with and not make them the "bad guy." This is one of my main issues with several comics actually (QC comes to mind especially) - every character is basically the same in terms of beliefs and morality and these reflect the author's personal biases and political beliefs. Consequently, the writing and character design come off as very shallow, to me at least. Props to Amber, especially for writing a main character who obviously is quite different from herself.
Just read Amber's note on the front page.
I hope no one thinks anything Dan is saying right now has anything to do with Amber's own beliefs (I never did). She's done a great job of creating characters with distinct personalities, beliefs, histories, etc. that make them feel REAL (a rarity among webcomics that I've read). I may comment on what the characters are saying, especially if I don't agree, but the fact that I'm addressing the characters and not Amber herself is to her credit.
In addition to which, I'm not addressing any of the creators of the characters from Furcadia (hence I'm not saying anything about Dan's creator). In fact, I have to keep reminding myself that half the cast WERE created by different people in Furcadia. I know that Dan's creator effectively "gave" Dan to Amber, but I also know not everyone gave her their characters but simply allow her to use them, and so I also hope no one with a Furcadian character takes offense to anything I say directed at the corresponding DMFA character.
[/soapbox]
Quote from: Baal Hadad on May 02, 2010, 05:05:34 PM
Just read Amber's note on the front page.
I hope no one thinks anything Dan is saying right now has anything to do with Amber's own beliefs (I never did). She's done a great job of creating characters with distinct personalities, beliefs, histories, etc. that make them feel REAL (a rarity among webcomics that I've read). I may comment on what the characters are saying, especially if I don't agree, but the fact that I'm addressing the characters and not Amber herself is to her credit.
I wonder how does that even need a note - i mean , the characters have contradicting opinions and Amber cannot possibly hold a belief and its negation at the same time!
Not to mention the serious dichotomy between beings and creatures (law of the many vs law of the strongest) which is far more compelling.
Quote from: Kattuccino on May 02, 2010, 04:33:51 PM
Anyway I think it's the mark of a great writer to be able to make characters that have beliefs you don't agree with and not make them the "bad guy." This is one of my main issues with several comics actually (QC comes to mind especially) - every character is basically the same in terms of beliefs and morality and these reflect the author's personal biases and political beliefs.
I dunno - i read QC myself, and it was sort of my favourite (a tie with XKCD) before coming to DMFA, and i do not find it so - if you think there are many divisions in beliefs as well, as in Penny actively hating religion, Will having an issue with manual work, Faye being just.. Faye,
Besides we must look at the bigger picture - DMFA is filled with beings and creatures from much more varied backgrounds , while QC is still mostly a comic about McJob holding hipsters, and some robots.
I think Jeff is still doing a mighty fine job there in terms of characterisation as myself knows even some IRL people who mightily resemble the characters... which is i believe a mark of sucess in this.
Quote from: danman on May 02, 2010, 05:14:43 PM
Quote from: Baal Hadad on May 02, 2010, 05:05:34 PM
Just read Amber's note on the front page.
I hope no one thinks anything Dan is saying right now has anything to do with Amber's own beliefs (I never did). She's done a great job of creating characters with distinct personalities, beliefs, histories, etc. that make them feel REAL (a rarity among webcomics that I've read). I may comment on what the characters are saying, especially if I don't agree, but the fact that I'm addressing the characters and not Amber herself is to her credit.
I wonder how does that even need a note - i mean , the characters have contradicting opinions and Amber cannot possibly hold a belief and its negation at the same time!
Not to mention the serious dichotomy between beings and creatures (law of the many vs law of the strongest) which is far more compelling.
Exactly--that's my point. Kattuccino mentioned already how too often, comic characters all have the same beliefs as the cartoonist, and that's not the case here. That comment actually made me think of Peanuts, of all things--not saying anything against Peanuts, I happen to love it, but every single character in Peanuts hates coconut (as did Charles Schulz). Heck, all the characters even looked the same.
But again, Amber isn't doing that, with either the looks or personalities, which is a sign of a good comic.
I personally would have reacted the same way Abel did to what Dan said........ :sweatdrop
You would think, however, that Abel would have learned by now that Dan doesn't always think before speaking...... :P
Hmm, i would say that the coconuts were more an intentional humorous exageration - as in coconuts suck so much everyone just hates them
Quote from: Mrs_A_ZeTavia on May 02, 2010, 05:24:48 PM
I personally would have reacted the same way Abel did to what Dan said........ :sweatdrop
You would think, however, that Abel would have learned by now that Dan doesn't always think before speaking...... :P
I think you have the words in the wrong order - it should be "... that dan
always doesn't think before speaking..."
Quote from: danman on May 02, 2010, 05:25:15 PM
Quote from: Mrs_A_ZeTavia on May 02, 2010, 05:24:48 PM
You would think, however, that Abel would have learned by now that Dan doesn't always think before speaking...... :P
I think you have the words in the wrong order - it should be "... that dan always doesn't think before speaking..."
Ah, touche my dead sir, touche! :mowhappy You have my props for that one. :3
Smooth move, ex-lax.
Dan never ceases to amaze me.
If blatant ignorance of the glaringly obvious was considered a power, Dan would be its master.
Quote from: Failcakes on May 03, 2010, 02:57:14 AM
If blatant ignorance of the glaringly obvious was considered a power, Dan would be its master.
Captain Oblivious? With a cape? Nah, he's got wings.
Only a webcomic can bring about this kind of debate. Who cares if Dan may or may not like gay people. Even characters in a comic are entitled to their opinions, however potentially politically incorrect they may be.
Keep going Dan, break his brain! Smush it with the power of unthinking ignorance.
Side note: Perhaps Dan is being deliberately thick just to piss off Abel? Naw... I just can't see Dan doing that. Someone else, maybe, Dan? Not really.
Quote from: Mrs_A_ZeTavia on May 02, 2010, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: danman on May 02, 2010, 05:25:15 PM
Quote from: Mrs_A_ZeTavia on May 02, 2010, 05:24:48 PM
You would think, however, that Abel would have learned by now that Dan doesn't always think before speaking...... :P
I think you have the words in the wrong order - it should be "... that dan always doesn't think before speaking..."
Ah, touche my dead sir, touche! :mowhappy You have my props for that one. :3
Ouch - the avatar is supposed to be cyborgified me... i should do a paper drawing - this one apparently isn't recognisable well
Quote from: Scarydragon on May 03, 2010, 06:15:51 AM
Only a webcomic can bring about this kind of debate. Who cares if Dan may or may not like gay people. Even characters in a comic are entitled to their opinions, however potentially politically incorrect they may be.
Bweeeheheh, but how else would I get my laughs if people didn't get worked up over this stuff?
Quote from: Scarydragon on May 03, 2010, 06:15:51 AM
Keep going Dan, break his brain! Smush it with the power of unthinking ignorance.
Side note: Perhaps Dan is being deliberately thick just to piss off Abel? Naw... I just can't see Dan doing that. Someone else, maybe, Dan? Not really.
In truth, I'm pretty sure that part of it is just to piss off Abel. All of it? No, I'm sure there's things he doesn't know and understand on the topic.
Well it's not that hard to imagine Dan thinking that Abel is gay.
After all, half the forum was convinced that Abel was gay before the soul-crushing strip 1084. :B
Quote from: Scarydragon on May 03, 2010, 06:15:51 AM
Only a webcomic can bring about this kind of debate. Who cares if Dan may or may not like gay people. Even characters in a comic are entitled to their opinions, however potentially politically incorrect they may be.
While of course all the characters have their opinions they are entitled to, I do care if Dan is a homophobe because his best friend is now gay. That's pretty much awkward central right there.
It's kind of sad Dan really doesn't think Jyrras is "normal" anymore. What kind of way is that to treat a friend? Even if he's only just pissy at Abel and trying to blame him for everything, it's still a pretty terrible thing to say.
Quote from: Keaton the Black Jackal on May 03, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
Well it's not that hard to imagine Dan thinking that Abel is gay.
After all, half the forum was convinced that Abel was gay before the soul-crushing strip 1084. :B
You mean the soul-crushing revelation that was made to someone Abel doesn't like for many reasons, and actually finds somewhat of a jerk (PKB, Abel?), and probably doesn't have much reason to be honest with? Yeah, fans will ALWAYS find loopholes in character revelations to support their own arguments, and JyrBel fans are no exception. ;)
Though, yeah, it is fairly damning... of the idea that him and Jy will be hooking up in the near future. It may never happen, but we'll just have to see.
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 11:55:18 AM
Quote from: Scarydragon on May 03, 2010, 06:15:51 AM
Only a webcomic can bring about this kind of debate. Who cares if Dan may or may not like gay people. Even characters in a comic are entitled to their opinions, however potentially politically incorrect they may be.
While of course all the characters have their opinions they are entitled to, I do care if Dan is a homophobe because his best friend is now gay. That's pretty much awkward central right there.
It's kind of sad Dan really doesn't think Jyrras is "normal" anymore. What kind of way is that to treat a friend? Even if he's only just pissy at Abel and trying to blame him for everything, it's still a pretty terrible thing to say.
Seriously, I can only imagine how badly Jy would react if he was right behind the doorway this entire time and was going to walk in at just the right moment...
*turns towards door*
Amber, you're not planning something like that, are you?
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 11:55:18 AM
It's kind of sad Dan really doesn't think Jyrras is "normal" anymore. What kind of way is that to treat a friend? Even if he's only just pissy at Abel and trying to blame him for everything, it's still a pretty terrible thing to say.
I think he's more worried that Abel is up to something nefarious that would hurt Jyrras in some way. Dan doesn't trust 'Cubi, and Abel was foisted on him against his wishes, really. He [Dan] has often suspected that Abel has ulterior motives, this may simply be an aspect of that.
Dan is a racist because that's effectively a survival tactic for adventurers, and he has met enough demons and suchlike to reinforce the stereotype there. I'm not sure that Dan has a problem with homosexuality in the same kind of sense.
Quote from: Tapewolf on May 03, 2010, 12:02:02 PM
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 11:55:18 AM
It's kind of sad Dan really doesn't think Jyrras is "normal" anymore. What kind of way is that to treat a friend? Even if he's only just pissy at Abel and trying to blame him for everything, it's still a pretty terrible thing to say.
I think he's more worried that Abel is up to something nefarious that would hurt Jyrras in some way. Dan doesn't trust 'Cubi, and Abel was foisted on him against his wishes, really. He [Dan] has often suspected that Abel has ulterior motives, this may simply be an aspect of that.
Dan is a racist because that's effectively a survival tactic for adventurers, and he has met enough demons and suchlike to reinforce the stereotype there. I'm not sure that Dan has a problem with homosexuality in the same kind of sense.
So, to sum up what I think you're saying, Dan may be afraid that Abel turned Jy gay so that Jy would get a crush on him and then Abel could manipulate him for his various nefarious Cubi ends, combined with a lack of understanding about homosexuality or Jy's feelings in general? That's a somewhat reasonable fear given Dan's background, but still a bit nuts.
Quote from: Baal Hadad on May 02, 2010, 01:48:12 PM
Okay, first Dan's a racist, now he's a homophobe, and we already knew he was a sexist....
Does he have ANY saving graces left...? :P
Yes!
He's not actively and knowingly racist (or wasn't) and "homophobic." As others posted (and I partly agree with), Dan's personality is, "Is it a danger to others? If yes, then kill it." Rather blunt. Not all that thoughtful.
Dan cares about others. He's willing to put his life on the line for not only friends, but even strangers (he was an adventurer, after all). He strongly believes in justice. He's honest (e.g. his date with Matilda) and will take responsibility for his screw-ups (again, see his date with Matilda). He strongly believes in justice.
Really, Dan's personality and behavior (putting aside the early years of DMFA), was at risk of trotting down the archetypical-hero-caricature path. Adding non-goodie-goodie-friend-to-all aspects to his personality not only avoids the aforementioned path, it makes the character 3-dimensional. It's a hallmark of good storytelling, and makes DMFA even
more addicting {well, at least to me}. So, :goamber
Quote from: Baal Hadad on May 02, 2010, 05:05:34 PM
Just read Amber's note on the front page.
I hope no one thinks anything Dan is saying right now has anything to do with Amber's own beliefs (I never did). She's done a great job of creating characters with distinct personalities, beliefs, histories, etc. that make them feel REAL (a rarity among webcomics that I've read). I may comment on what the characters are saying, especially if I don't agree, but the fact that I'm addressing the characters and not Amber herself is to her credit.
This needs to be repeated as frequently as possible, Baal. I'm worried that the rants on the main page disappear, because I think that people really, really need to read that {now vanished} rant before reading the past few strips... and jumping to conclusions about Amber.
Quote from: Tapewolf on May 03, 2010, 12:02:02 PM
I think he's more worried that Abel is up to something nefarious that would hurt Jyrras in some way. Dan doesn't trust 'Cubi, and Abel was foisted on him against his wishes, really. He [Dan] has often suspected that Abel has ulterior motives, this may simply be an aspect of that.
Dan is a racist because that's effectively a survival tactic for adventurers, and he has met enough demons and suchlike to reinforce the stereotype there. I'm not sure that Dan has a problem with homosexuality in the same kind of sense.
Yes, that's true, Dan has always been thinking Abel's up to something even though Abel really hasn't done anything (because Dan's kind of dumb), but we can't really fault him too much because of his background in adventuring. But the way he phrased his thoughts were still pretty ignorant and insulting towards Jyrras (because Dan's kind of dumb).
So maybe Dan's not really homophobic, just idiotic. :U
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 12:12:25 PM
But the way he phrased his thoughts were still pretty ignorant and insulting towards Jyrras (because Dan's kind of dumb).
Granted.
Quote from: Jairus on May 03, 2010, 12:05:48 PM
So, to sum up what I think you're saying, Dan may be afraid that Abel turned Jy gay so that Jy would get a crush on him and then Abel could manipulate him for his various nefarious Cubi ends, combined with a lack of understanding about homosexuality or Jy's feelings in general? That's a somewhat reasonable fear given Dan's background, but still a bit nuts.
This wouldn't be the first time - remember his outburst in strip 723.
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 12:12:25 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on May 03, 2010, 12:02:02 PM
I think he's more worried that Abel is up to something nefarious that would hurt Jyrras in some way. Dan doesn't trust 'Cubi, and Abel was foisted on him against his wishes, really. He [Dan] has often suspected that Abel has ulterior motives, this may simply be an aspect of that.
Dan is a racist because that's effectively a survival tactic for adventurers, and he has met enough demons and suchlike to reinforce the stereotype there. I'm not sure that Dan has a problem with homosexuality in the same kind of sense.
Yes, that's true, Dan has always been thinking Abel's up to something even though Abel really hasn't done anything (because Dan's kind of dumb), but we can't really fault him too much because of his background in adventuring. But the way he phrased his thoughts were still pretty ignorant and insulting towards Jyrras (because Dan's kind of dumb).
So maybe Dan's not really homophobic, just idiotic. :U
How's the old saying go? "Never ascribe to active malice what might instead be ascribed to stupidity?" Something like that?
Quote from: Tapewolf on May 03, 2010, 12:20:59 PM
Quote from: Jairus on May 03, 2010, 12:05:48 PM
So, to sum up what I think you're saying, Dan may be afraid that Abel turned Jy gay so that Jy would get a crush on him and then Abel could manipulate him for his various nefarious Cubi ends, combined with a lack of understanding about homosexuality or Jy's feelings in general? That's a somewhat reasonable fear given Dan's background, but still a bit nuts.
This wouldn't be the first time - remember his outburst in strip 723.
Which adds strength to the "Dan's just an idiot" argument. It's a long-term problem, rather than something introduced for cheap drama.
I think Dan being a bit of an idiot and being outwardly antagonistic towards Abel for a while (for various, easily explainable reasons) is the likely culprit here. They may be friends, but I'm friends with folks that I dig at, too. Balade for example (those who attend the webcasts already know this).
its all a conspiracy, i know it, but who is the mastermind behind this homosexual epedemic?
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 11:55:18 AM
While of course all the characters have their opinions they are entitled to, I do care if Dan is a homophobe because his best friend is now gay. That's pretty much awkward central right there.
I don't see the homophobia. Dan seemed completely supportive (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_747.php) of Jyrras, with no problems with Jyrras being gay. I think Dan will support Jyrras 100% whatever happens,
except for Jyrras hooking up with Abel, the horrible, evil, mind-controlling cubi.
I can also understand Dan's reluctance to "being turned gay" by Abel. Dan is perfectly comfortable with his own sexual orientation, and just doesn't want to change. Matilda would be so disappointed!
In Dan's defense, things work differently in the DMFA universe compared to ours. Unlikely as it is, fashion make-overs could well have unforeseen consequences. We don't know for sure, and Dan is just basing his assumptions on his own observations. It's totally scientific (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_648.php)! :D
Quote from: Bjalf on May 03, 2010, 02:33:51 PM
I don't see the homophobia. Dan seemed completely supportive (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_747.php) of Jyrras, with no problems with Jyrras being gay. I think Dan will support Jyrras 100% whatever happens, except for Jyrras hooking up with Abel, the horrible, evil, mind-controlling cubi.
Yeah, I don't really think Dan is a homophobe, either, considering how supportive he was like you said. But the whole "normal" comment just kind of put me off. :/
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 02:58:26 PM
Quote from: Bjalf on May 03, 2010, 02:33:51 PM
I don't see the homophobia. Dan seemed completely supportive (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_747.php) of Jyrras, with no problems with Jyrras being gay. I think Dan will support Jyrras 100% whatever happens, except for Jyrras hooking up with Abel, the horrible, evil, mind-controlling cubi.
Yeah, I don't really think Dan is a homophobe, either, considering how supportive he was like you said. But the whole "normal" comment just kind of put me off. :/
It's probably Dan seeing how
unhappy Jyrras now and blaming it on "becoming gay".
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 02:58:26 PM
Yeah, I don't really think Dan is a homophobe, either, considering how supportive he was like you said. But the whole "normal" comment just kind of put me off. :/
Rather bad choice of words, absolutely. But in a twisted way, it's actually a brilliant statement. It's short, painfully to the point, completely wrong, and
impossible to argue with, at least in a rational manner. Dan is proven right by being so wrong that Abel can't find any arguments against him. I just love it! I'm still chuckling over Abel's reaction and expressions.
Quote from: Bjalf on May 03, 2010, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 02:58:26 PM
Yeah, I don't really think Dan is a homophobe, either, considering how supportive he was like you said. But the whole "normal" comment just kind of put me off. :/
Rather bad choice of words, absolutely. But in a twisted way, it's actually a brilliant statement. It's short, painfully to the point, completely wrong, and impossible to argue with, at least in a rational manner. Dan is proven right by being so wrong that Abel can't find any arguments against him. I just love it! I'm still chuckling over Abel's reaction and expressions.
Just wait until Abel figures out that he'll probably have to keep Dan from being shredded for insulting a clan at the academy.
Oh. What a school setion that will be my friend. :P
Quote from: joshofspam on May 03, 2010, 03:34:29 PM
Just wait until Abel figures out that he'll probably have to keep Dan from being shredded for insulting a clan at the academy.
Oh. What a school setion that will be my friend. :P
I am sooo looking forward to that story arc. It shouldn't be too far away now, Dan's supposed to come back to SAIA one month every year.
But first, horrible awkward embarrassment with Lorenda at Kria's place. :eager
Quote from: Bjalf on May 03, 2010, 03:47:34 PM
I am sooo looking forward to that story arc. It shouldn't be too far away now, Dan's supposed to come back to SAIA one month every year.
But first, horrible awkward embarrassment with Lorenda at Kria's place. :eager
Oh yes. Awkward moments are the best. >:3
Quote from: Marmy on May 03, 2010, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: Bjalf on May 03, 2010, 03:47:34 PM
I am sooo looking forward to that story arc. It shouldn't be too far away now, Dan's supposed to come back to SAIA one month every year.
But first, horrible awkward embarrassment with Lorenda at Kria's place. :eager
Oh yes. Awkward moments are the best. >:3
Even better...
Fa'Lina bursts in to remind Dan about his promise
while in the middle of an awkward moment at Kria's...
Bonus points if Dan is currently "wishing for something to interrupt this awkward moment."...
Quote from: Keaton the Black Jackal on May 03, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
Well it's not that hard to imagine Dan thinking that Abel is gay.
After all, half the forum was convinced that Abel was gay before the soul-crushing strip 1084. :B
I'm still not convinced.
>.>
<.<
*Is nuked from orbit by rest of forum*
Quote from: Brunhidden on May 03, 2010, 01:14:53 PM
its all a conspiracy, i know it, but who is the mastermind behind this homosexual epedemic?
TGH.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 03, 2010, 06:58:23 PM
Quote from: Brunhidden on May 03, 2010, 01:14:53 PM
its all a conspiracy, i know it, but who is the mastermind behind this homosexual epedemic?
TGH.
Gasp! You're right! I haven't seen him around in awhile. Clearly, this means he's plotting from the shadows. We're all doomed!
Edit: And by "awhile," I mean... a couple weeks. >_>
I hate to do this, but: It's just a comic, you should really just relax. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)
Besides, part of Dan's charm is that he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer - even if he does have a startling variety of sharp knife-like things at his disposal. So grab some popcorn and a tasty beverage, sit back, and enjoy the ride. :p
I don't like the portrayal of the Hero of the comic as a complete bigot... Of course, written language lacks emphasis, so either Dan went on an ignorant anti-queer rant there, or he's accusing Abel of actually rewiring Jyrras's orientation through incubi mind-manipulating treachery... which is within the extent of power Dan suspects Incubi of possessing.
Honestly, I'm really starting to dislike the way Dan seems to becoming dumber and more unsympathetic as the comic goes on.
I like my theory: The reason Dan's suddenly become fashion-sensitive is because he's become a lot more masculine. His mind and body went from flexible Bishonen to Masculine Man looking to put down those who are a Disgrace to the Man Race! (Such as Ambiguous or Flamboyant queers)
Quote from: Scow2 on May 04, 2010, 10:44:52 PM
I don't like the portrayal of the Hero of the comic as a complete bigot... Of course, written language lacks emphasis, so either Dan went on an ignorant anti-queer rant there, or he's accusing Abel of actually rewiring Jyrras's orientation through incubi mind-manipulating treachery... which is within the extent of power Dan suspects Incubi of possessing.
Honestly, I'm really starting to dislike the way Dan seems to becoming dumber and more unsympathetic as the comic goes on.
I like my theory: The reason Dan's suddenly become fashion-sensitive is because he's become a lot more masculine. His mind and body went from flexible Bishonen to Masculine Man looking to put down those who are a Disgrace to the Man Race! (Such as Ambiguous or Flamboyant queers)
deal with it, or go home. it's that simple.
Quote from: Scow2 on May 04, 2010, 10:44:52 PM
I don't like the portrayal of the Hero of the comic as a complete bigot... Of course, written language lacks emphasis, so either Dan went on an ignorant anti-queer rant there, or he's accusing Abel of actually rewiring Jyrras's orientation through incubi mind-manipulating treachery... which is within the extent of power Dan suspects Incubi of possessing.
Honestly, I'm really starting to dislike the way Dan seems to becoming dumber and more unsympathetic as the comic goes on.
I like my theory: The reason Dan's suddenly become fashion-sensitive is because he's become a lot more masculine. His mind and body went from flexible Bishonen to Masculine Man looking to put down those who are a Disgrace to the Man Race! (Such as Ambiguous or Flamboyant queers)
I don't really think Dan is a "bigot" by any means. After all, he doesn't ever show any real hate or distrust of gays. He's just concerned for his own masculinity.
That and he never was the brightest bulb in the box.
He's not being homophobic now any more than he was being sexist in the early comics when he was constantly questing after Amazons.
Quote from: Thirty Second Artbomb on May 04, 2010, 09:55:43 PM
I hate to do this, but: It's just a comic, you should really just relax. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)
Besides, part of Dan's charm is that he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer - even if he does have a startling variety of sharp knife-like things at his disposal. So grab some popcorn and a tasty beverage, sit back, and enjoy the ride. :p
But my semantics! :O
(Kidding aside, Joel and the bot's have some sage advice.)
Quote from: Unsilenced on May 04, 2010, 11:27:09 PM
I don't really think Dan is a "bigot" by any means. After all, he doesn't ever show any real hate or distrust of gays. He's just concerned for his own masculinity.
That and he never was the brightest bulb in the box.
He's not being homophobic now any more than he was being sexist in the early comics when he was constantly questing after Amazons.
Yeah, I agree. Honestly, I think we all know Dan's a pretty good guy at heart. He just the type of person who can lack eloquence in some situations. (But mostly when Abel's involved. My god, Dan, give it a rest :U)
Quote from: Unsilenced on May 04, 2010, 11:27:09 PM
Quote from: Scow2 on May 04, 2010, 10:44:52 PM
I like my theory: The reason Dan's suddenly become fashion-sensitive is because he's become a lot more masculine. His mind and body went from flexible Bishonen to Masculine Man looking to put down those who are a Disgrace to the Man Race! (Such as Ambiguous or Flamboyant queers)
I don't really think Dan is a "bigot" by any means. After all, he doesn't ever show any real hate or distrust of gays. He's just concerned for his own masculinity.
...
He's not being homophobic now any more than he was being sexist in the early comics when he was constantly questing after Amazons.
He has other (cubi and jerk) reasons for his animosity toward Abel while also assuming Abel's gay. He seemed ok with Jyrras being gay, just stating he wouldn't reciprocate, just stay with the regular friendship.
Now let's see if Dan keeps quite long enough for Abel to think what he is about to tell Dan and then get Dan totally out of the dark closet that he's been hiding from the world by a huge wall of text to bash Dan's head against until he gets what Abel is about to tell him.
This might require a scene switch. This could take a while for Abel to fix.
Amber, using Dan as proxy, has unleashed war upon the internet. Grab what you can and run! :B
Quote from: Scarydragon on May 06, 2010, 12:02:23 PM
Amber, using Dan as proxy, has unleashed war upon the internet. Grab what you can and run! :B
LOOT AND PILLAGE!!!!!!!
*Picks up Scarydragon and runs*
*coughs a bit* Eh, if she really wanted to start a war she'd think of something else to do it with. While I won't claim her to be the 'super-genius' folks like to make her out to be, I will admit that she's pretty creative and has a good sense of humor. Using her comic to start a war wouldn't really suit her style.
Quote from: Mao Laoren on May 06, 2010, 12:40:30 PM
*coughs a bit* Eh, if she really wanted to start a war she'd think of something else to do it with. While I won't claim her to be the 'super-genius' folks like to make her out to be, I will admit that she's pretty creative and has a good sense of humor. Using her comic to start a war wouldn't really suit her style.
but it's so cute to picture Amber dressed up like a viking warlord! :3
Quote from: Mao Laoren on May 06, 2010, 12:40:30 PM
*coughs a bit* Eh, if she really wanted to start a war she'd think of something else to do it with. While I won't claim her to be the 'super-genius' folks like to make her out to be, I will admit that she's pretty creative and has a good sense of humor. Using her comic to start a war wouldn't really suit her style.
*Stops, still holding Scarydragon over his head*
No pillage? :mowsad
Quote from: Mao Laoren on May 06, 2010, 12:40:30 PM
*coughs a bit* Eh, if she really wanted to start a war she'd think of something else to do it with. While I won't claim her to be the 'super-genius' folks like to make her out to be, I will admit that she's pretty creative and has a good sense of humor. Using her comic to start a war wouldn't really suit her style.
Nonooo, that's just
what she wants you to think. All part of her super-genius master plan, no doubt.
Quote from: Turnsky on May 06, 2010, 12:46:57 PM
but it's so cute to picture Amber dressed up like a viking warlord! :3
Now that's a bonus comic!
For some reason when I look at panel 3 I am thinking, "Dan Smash!"
But on the other hand Dan looks like someone who has been through what Dan has.
Funny thing is that he already went through a discussion with Wildy on the topic.
From the manipulative to the clueless.
Wonder if he'll throw out Dan like he did Wildy? Only problem with that is Dan lives there. >:3
Something to keep in mind is that Dan knows Jyrras has expressed interest in, though not being romantically successful with, the opposite sex. Abel knows none of this, only that he gleaned from a quick thought-reading that Jy-squeak had a crush on Dan. From Dan's perspective Jyrras was always either straight or bi until meeting Abel, now he's totally no ifs, ands, or buts (except Abel's) gay. Abel apparently went with what is largely the default assumption of 'dude attracted to other dudes = gay' without questioning it (sadly bisexuality is still not considered a legitimate orientation by many) and proceeded accordingly. Jyrras is a geek.. check that... Jyrras is an UBER-Geek and as such he likes rules, nice safe predictable rules. To Jyrras, the 'rules' say he's Gay and any attraction he had to females before is to be rationalized away. His crush on Lorenda was just him confusing feelings of friendship for romantic feelings, but why couldn't the same be said for his crush on Dan or even Abel?