So I figured, what if the worst cliches one can ever use in a comic/cartoon/anime/movie?
On the very top of my list is "vengeance is bad"
Oh damn, if one gets a reason for revenge and moves on immediately, it's ok, but I want to shoot the writer whenever a character goes all the way for revenge just to back down in the last moment because all of sudden he decided that taking revenge will "taint his soul" or make him evil or something.
O even worst, having a chance to kill the evilest bad guy in history and letting him alive because he doesn't want to be "evil" too - often resulting on the villain escaping and screwing up again
"I'll be back"
"Don't do drugs"
The story of the geeky guy who meets girl, transforms into a jock (otherwise known as "turing cool"), and lives happily ever after, because "everybody knows that nerds are losers".
"Bad guy kills sexually active teenagers in a variety of ways", also known as "horror movies" to some people, known as "bad films" to everyone else.
Quote from: Jack McSlay on October 10, 2008, 01:50:53 PMOh damn, if one gets a reason for revenge and moves on immediately, it's ok, but I want to shoot the writer whenever a character goes all the way for revenge just to back down in the last moment because all of sudden he decided that taking revenge will "taint his soul" or make him evil or something.
You watched Return of the Jedi last night, didn't you?
Here (http://www.brunching.com/lukeside.html).
Quote from: superluser on October 10, 2008, 02:05:31 PMYou watched Return of the Jedi last night, didn't you?
Here (http://www.brunching.com/lukeside.html).
Worst. Harry Potter & The order of the Phoenix
Let's see...
Biggest peeve: Boy and girl meet, they fall in "love" and kiss/have sex by the end of the movie. This is regardless of whether the movie is a comedy, action, thriller, biographical, historical, anything etc. Also regardless of whether it contributes in any way to the movie, or whether any thought or attention is given to how the actual relationship.
This cliché can be done well, but rarely is.
Particularly irritating if the woman is 2 dimensional, whiny, a constant damsel in distress or simply doesn't have a brain. Sure, guy can be terribly written too, but at least they do something from time to time. Most female roles are incredibly sexist and lack character development (or even character).
A sub group of this is having a protagonist who seems unreasonably motivated to do something purely by love. (Yes, I know people do crazy things in real life from love, but the love part is rarely expressed well enough for the audience to understand why this tosser is doing all these things. Also, it would be nice to show other motivating factors for human beings, helping explore what motivates us).
Any cliché can irritate me if I hear it too many times over.
The whole, dystopian future can get on my nerves as well. As do a lot of stories where a small band revolts against a big totalitarian government/occuping force. What gets me is that in real life, a revolution like this is full the complexity, moral ambiguity, diverse opinion etc. Wheras with this cliché in most stories, it becomes a pithy tale of a group overcoming the odds and having escapist adventures in defeating cardboard and utterly undeveloped villian(s) in a universe that has as much depth as a stage backdrop.
To finish off:
Kill off the good guy/girl....BUT WE DIDN'T REALLY KILL HIM AND HE/SHE'S STILL ALIVE!!!!
Quote from: Sofox on October 10, 2008, 04:49:15 PMBiggest peeve: Boy and girl meet, they fall in "love" and kiss/have sex by the end of the movie. This is regardless of whether the movie is a comedy, action, thriller, biographical, historical, anything etc. Also regardless of whether it contributes in any way to the movie, or whether any thought or attention is given to how the actual relationship.
The absolute worst is the type where the screenwriters seem to say, ``Whelp, the movie's wrapping up, so I guess these two have sex,'' despite the fact that there was no actual relationship development over the span of the film.
My biggest pet peeve cliche is, naturally, anytime there is a "robot revolution" or a "destroy all humans" malfunctioning robot, or some snotty AI that engineers some sort of controlling takeover for the "betterment of humanity", or some kind of engineered experiment that goes horribly wrong, or some kind of technological disaster...the list goes on.
In short, any time robots/AI/science/technology are portrayed as the bad guy. That really pisses me off.
The thing I like about this site, (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tropes) you can find a ton of idioms that television and movies often apply, many of them not so cliché, just essential to put into the plot.
However, I'm gonna say I get -ultra- annoyed at the "laugh take". You know, where at the end of a TV show, someone makes a lame joke or something else happens, and the whole group just stands there making laughter, especially that which sounds SO fake?
That cliché is at the top. I'll...think of more later, as that's the only thing that came to mind that I hate.
Anytime the hero holds a gun to someone's head to get info, since it's always like
"Where's your boss?!"
"Screw off!"
"*racks slide of gun, indicating it's now loaded*"
"I tell you nothin'!"
"*cocks hammer back (bonus if it's a model that doesn't even have one)*"
"Woah, you really are serious. He's right over there, man."
Tremendous action movie explosions and busty superheroines who can perform acts of agility and flexibility in ridiculously long stiletto heels.
Oddly enough, I still love Ivy from Soul Calibur in spite of her adhering to that latter cliche.
Cliches are fun, but they can really irritate me. Like the hero and heroine can fall in love and gain immortality.
spoiler:
I guess you guys just watched "Eagle Eye."
/spoiler
Quote from: Keaton the Black Jackal on October 10, 2008, 06:46:08 PM
Tremendous action movie explosions and busty superheroines who can perform acts of agility and flexibility in ridiculously long stiletto heels.
Oddly enough, I still love Ivy from Soul Calibur in spite of her adhering to that latter cliche.
my only consolation to that cliche is the fact that if you manage to keep balance while using high heel shoes, you get extra weapons. I remember a few fighting game girls who hits or stomps the downed opponent using the heels (and I think that includes Ivy too)
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on October 10, 2008, 05:07:45 PM
In short, any time robots/AI/science/technology are portrayed as the bad guy. That really pisses me off.
Now they just need to make a movie where Humans Are Evil and the heroic robots have to crush the pathetic fleshy meatbags, and then you'd be happy? :>
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on October 11, 2008, 12:34:17 AM
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on October 10, 2008, 05:07:45 PM
In short, any time robots/AI/science/technology are portrayed as the bad guy. That really pisses me off.
Now they just need to make a movie where Humans Are Evil and the heroic robots have to crush the pathetic fleshy meatbags, and then you'd be happy? :>
Yes, something like that. It would then at least be halfway
accurate.
However, an important distiction is that I don't have so much of a problem with a robot being
a bad guy, I just have a problem with robots being
the bad guy.
In movies, every drug acts like LSD. Fact.
everything explodes if you so much as look at it.
Blind people are always black for some bizarre reason.
Super cliche: Black guy faces daager with a bunch of other guys and spits out: "I'll probably die first cause i'm black!"
Quote from: Turnsky on October 11, 2008, 10:09:37 AM
everything explodes if you so much as look at it.
Definitely. Like my father, I have a very poor tolerance for films (and books) where cars explode, all electronics run off a 350 kilovolt power supply or otherwise have no safety features. The only exception is Star Trek, where it happens so much I don't even notice it anymore.
Computers that explode when given an insoluble problem. Gods help you if you make a typing mistake in your query!
**EDIT**
Quote from: Sofox on October 10, 2008, 04:49:15 PM
Kill off the good guy/girl....BUT WE DIDN'T REALLY KILL HIM AND HE/SHE'S STILL ALIVE!!!!
Brotherhood of the Wolf did something a little like that. Only they did a pretty good job of it. I sat there for 15-20 minutes thinking "OMG, they killed off both the protagonists. Why is the film still running?"
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 11, 2008, 11:22:19 AM
The only exception is Star Trek, where it happens so much I don't even notice it anymore.
Yeah, they really should get a seatbelt or something.
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 11, 2008, 11:22:19 AM
Computers that explode when given an insoluble problem. Gods help you if you make a typing mistake in your query!
Ever see Logan's Run? There's a bit where a computer basically doesn't get what it wants and blows up a city as a result. Wow, what a BSoD.
Largest cliche of all: Good always wins, even if evil dominates for 90% of the time! Only exception of this rule is J.R.R.Martins' books, where good is dragged in the mud, raped and then killed mercilessly! Good book :mwaha
Quote from: Dannysaysnoo on October 11, 2008, 01:52:32 PM
Ever see Logan's Run? There's a bit where a computer basically doesn't get what it wants and blows up a city as a result. Wow, what a BSoD.
I know. I'm sure it wasn't in the book. They did have this cool robot bird thing, I was kind of mortified when the guy blew it up. I don't think it turned up in the film, though.
Mind you, I guess if they used a positronic brain a crash might result in that kind of explosion. Or if it had a UPS with Lithium-Polymer batteries.
Not exactly a cliché, but bad book->film conversions really annoy me. Of these, the most foul must be
Make Room, Make Room by Harry Harrison, which was murdered, raped, burned and finally resurrected as 'Soylent Green'. Friends, it is my sad duty to inform you that Soylent Green is
not made of people(*), but soya and lentils,
which is why it is called that. If you want people eating, Half Past Human (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half_Past_Human) by T. J. Bass is second on the left.
(*)Actually, that's a cliché I can't stand either.
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 11, 2008, 11:22:19 AMDefinitely. Like my father, I have a very poor tolerance for films (and books) where cars explode, all electronics run off a 350 kilovolt power supply or otherwise have no safety features. The only exception is Star Trek, where it happens so much I don't even notice it anymore.
Computers that explode when given an insoluble problem. Gods help you if you make a typing mistake in your query!
this reminds of a few more:
- Assembling circuitry with welding tools
- People using computers without ever touching a mouse
- People ramdomly button-mashing when playing videogames (gets worst when there's two people playing a single player game)
- Computer using weird OSes, often with letters large enough for a half-blind person to see (I lol on Jurassic Park where the girl navigates through a 3D GUI and calls it UNIX)
- Computers suddenly shutting down when you shoot the monitor
Whenever anyone says, "I've got a bad feeling about this."
MOST... OVERUSED... LINE.... EVAR!!!!
I will have to check into J.R.R.Martin's books...
So it's rather irritating, in more than one way, how nearly every modern-day style anime drama has the main character as awkward guy who has at least five girls in love with him even though he's too dense to notice any of them even if they tell him they love him and try to make out with him.
Whenever a main character's relative or friend randomly disappears early on in a show/game/book that person is almost guaranteed to become an enemy.
If aliens come to earth and they meet kids first they try to help humanity. Also if aliens come to earth and they meet adults first they want to destroy the planet.
The hero has some dark, twisted past.
The guy is a swordsman and his girlfriend/childhood friend (who will be his girlfriend at some point) is a sorceress.
If there is a love interest in some action related story the girl will be captured
Less clothing = more defense for females
If the villain is male with a female follower and the hero is male, she will fall in love with the hero.
The game Gun Metal is nice in the way that you are to defend the planet from Earth.
And for some list that may or may not include everything listed here: http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html (http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html) :januscat
Quote from: Alondro on October 11, 2008, 03:39:13 PMWhenever anyone says, "I've got a bad feeling about this."
MOST... OVERUSED... LINE.... EVAR!!!!
Unless it's being spoken by Han Solo.
Quote from: Jack McSlay on October 11, 2008, 03:26:00 PM
- Computer using weird OSes, often with letters large enough for a half-blind person to see (I lol on Jurassic Park where the girl navigates through a 3D GUI and calls it UNIX)
That much was real... the SGI actually did ship with a 3D file manager, which is what they were showing. The girl knowing UNIX was a bit of a stretch at the time, but it has become easier since the film was made.
Aside from that, yes... though they seem to getting a lot better in that regard lately.
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 11, 2008, 06:25:03 PMAside from that, yes... though they seem to getting a lot better in that regard lately.
I wonder if part of that may be due to HDTV. For a film to be viewable on an NTSC TV, it has to be converted to 640x480 interlaced, which is not good enough to view anything better than 40-column text (q.v. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/59/CGA_CompVsRGB_Text.png)). PAL is better, but not by much, I suspect.
HDTV, on the other hand, has a higher resolution and less color bleeding, meaning that viewers at home can actually see what they need to.
Quote from: superluser on October 11, 2008, 06:46:08 PM
I wonder if part of that may be due to HDTV. For a film to be viewable on an NTSC TV, it has to be converted to 640x480 interlaced, which is not good enough to view anything better than 40-column text.
That's probably part of the reason, but I don't recall it being a problem in
Alien which IIRC used a straight 80-column teletype (we'll pretend the weird sound it made didn't happen).
In fact it worked pretty well until Windows became mainstream, at which point all these really weird and crappy GUIs suddenly turned up.
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 11, 2008, 06:55:10 PM
That's probably part of the reason, but I don't recall it being a problem in Alien which IIRC used a straight 80-column teletype (we'll pretend the weird sound it made didn't happen).
Weird sound? What, like "bang", 500 times? ;-]
Quote from: Kipiru on October 11, 2008, 03:00:06 PM
Largest cliche of all: Good always wins, even if evil dominates for 90% of the time! Only exception of this rule is J.R.R.Martins' books, where good is dragged in the mud, raped and then killed mercilessly! Good book :mwaha
I don't care if George is subverting all our expectations by being gritty and realistic, but killing off all the likable protagonists is bad writing. And it happens
so often you eventually can't care about anyone because you know if they've a smidgen of goodness, they're going to die brutally and horribly. I think this was argued in the regretful books thread somewhere, too... c'est la vie.
In regards to cliches, sometimes it's possible to shut your brain off and enjoy a movie or book with them. Other times they're just too in your face and blatantly obvious to make whatever you're looking at enjoyable. I can't think of any
particular cliches at the moment that annoy me more than others... oh, wait. It usually goes in hand with book/game to movie conversions - the awfully inserted romance subplot, where there never was one.
The lack of seatbelts in star trek can be explained away easily. If you crash while traveling at the speed of light do you honestly think a strap of cloth/leather/mylar is going to save you from being atomized?
In the future no one is overweight, despite the fact that all anyone does anymore is stand around pushing buttons, sit around pushing buttons, hang around their quarters listening to music, playing poker friends, etc.
and the one I find most bizarely ethnocentric... An advanced race of aliens wants Earth, it's resources, or whatever for themselves. Yet, somehow, they aren't advanced enough to match wits with humans or even the planet's single celled microorganisms
-It was Earth all along
-They were actually humans
-AI becomes self aware... and chooses to become eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on October 11, 2008, 08:50:24 PMThe lack of seatbelts in star trek can be explained away easily. If you crash while traveling at the speed of light do you honestly think a strap of cloth/leather/mylar is going to save you from being atomized?
They have (physically impossible) inertial dampers for that. And perhaps belts would keep them from falling out of their chairs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sKXb8-TqtQ).
Quote from: superluser on October 12, 2008, 01:35:56 AM
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on October 11, 2008, 08:50:24 PMThe lack of seatbelts in star trek can be explained away easily. If you crash while traveling at the speed of light do you honestly think a strap of cloth/leather/mylar is going to save you from being atomized?
They have (physically impossible) inertial dampers for that. And perhaps belts would keep them from falling out of their chairs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sKXb8-TqtQ).
Belts will most likely behead them, rather then keep them in their seats!
Quote from: Kipiru on October 12, 2008, 04:53:37 AM
Belts will most likely behead them, rather then keep them in their seats!
... win-win?
Fire all phasers at the Box/Boss! Star Trek forever!
Quote from: Sofox on October 10, 2008, 04:49:15 PM
Any cliché can irritate me if I hear it too many times over.
The whole, dystopian future can get on my nerves as well. As do a lot of stories where a small band revolts against a big totalitarian government/occuping force. What gets me is that in real life, a revolution like this is full the complexity, moral ambiguity, diverse opinion etc. Wheras with this cliché in most stories, it becomes a pithy tale of a group overcoming the odds and having escapist adventures in defeating cardboard and utterly undeveloped villian(s) in a universe that has as much depth as a stage backdrop.
...*scraps a potential story idea as a result* Thanks :c
Quote from: Gareeku on October 12, 2008, 05:57:42 AM
...*scraps a potential story idea as a result* Thanks :c
What, because your story has cardboard villains, or because it's dystopian future? The latter _can_ be done well - take Damnation Alley, by Roger Zelazny, for example. Not the movie, but the book.
... if it's the former, then it probably should be scrapped. Unless you're doing it for the sake of parody, in which case you can get away with murder... ;-]
I'm writing a story with cardboard villians... Llearch is one of them
QuoteI'm writing a story with cardboard villians... Llearch is one of them
Heh,That's funny,
Okay, what about :
A hero's sibling being a bad guy
All males with lightning powers look like they out their finger in an electrical socket one too many times have incredible bad luck and are complete morons 99% of the time.
A fire elemental who's totally Bad ass And have at least 3 girls fight over him.
A water elemental Whose a wiseguy.
An Earth elemental whose a treehugger when male and a total tank when female and pissed off
The hero gets the girl and ends up losing a body part in the process
Something totally cute said to be the key to saving the world be useless until a life threatening emergency.
A wind elemental whose free spirited
The heroes get enchanted and ancient weaponry
The mechanic for the heroes is usually a girl with glasses or goggles and has robots at her disposal
the hero has a unique ability that seems useless, like standing on the ceiling or something, until the final battle
And that's all I can think of at the moment.
I wonder if one of the agents from the recent hellboy animated movie would count for that last one.
The BPRD agent could detect metal. It never realy saved the day but it was a aperently useless power that came in handy at odd moments. (finding a secret door, telling everyone to get out of the room cause alot of metal was headed right for them)
Quote from: Gareeku on October 12, 2008, 05:57:42 AM
Quote from: Sofox on October 10, 2008, 04:49:15 PM
Any cliché can irritate me if I hear it too many times over.
The whole, dystopian future can get on my nerves as well. As do a lot of stories where a small band revolts against a big totalitarian government/occuping force. What gets me is that in real life, a revolution like this is full the complexity, moral ambiguity, diverse opinion etc. Wheras with this cliché in most stories, it becomes a pithy tale of a group overcoming the odds and having escapist adventures in defeating cardboard and utterly undeveloped villian(s) in a universe that has as much depth as a stage backdrop.
...*scraps a potential story idea as a result* Thanks :c
Awww, c'mon, don't be that way. Just cause I made a spastic comment doesn't mean you have to to take it defensivly.
If you want my advice, read up on real oppressive governments and regimes, especially what it's like to live in one of them. If you think about it, one of the greatest dystopian future stories of all time is 1984, and George Orwell based a lot of it on first hand seeing the actions of the British Government right after the Second World War. (for instance, the way rationing continued after the war because it was believed to be good for the country).
Quote from: Auragonian on October 12, 2008, 10:00:55 AM
A fire elemental who's totally Bad ass And have at least 3 girls fight over him.
A water elemental Whose a wiseguy.
An Earth elemental whose a treehugger when male and a total tank when female and pissed off
A wind elemental whose free spirited
:mwaha So gleefully subverted. :mwaha
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on October 12, 2008, 04:56:05 PM
Quote from: Auragonian on October 12, 2008, 10:00:55 AM
A fire elemental who's totally Bad ass And have at least 3 girls fight over him.
A water elemental Whose a wiseguy.
An Earth elemental whose a treehugger when male and a total tank when female and pissed off
A wind elemental whose free spirited
:mwaha So gleefully subverted. :mwaha
Agreed. For me, half the fun of writing is either justifying or subverting the common tropes of the universe. As for least liked cliche... I guess the idea that there is good magic and bad magic kind of bugs me. In my settings, magic is a truly neutral force, and even spells are neutral. What matters is how magic is wielded. That, and you guys have listed a bunch already.
Incidentally, part of the reason I liked Signum from Nanoha A's is because she was a fire elemental who had a cool and calm head under basically every situation, and never once to my memories got hot-headed like most fire elementals.
Oh, and "technology/science = bad" and "old ways = good." Eurgh. I hate that trope, especially when the good guys are using the EXACT SAME TECHNOLOGY to fight the bad guys. So, "technology is bad, unless the good guys are using it?" That's like saying that "war is bad, unless we're doing it."
Quote from: Jairus on October 12, 2008, 05:01:58 PM
Incidentally, part of the reason I liked Signum from Nanoha A's is because she was a fire elemental who had a cool and calm head under basically every situation, and never once to my memories got hot-headed like most fire elementals.
Unlike, say,
Etna Agito.
Quote from: superluser on October 11, 2008, 06:15:32 PM
Quote from: Alondro on October 11, 2008, 03:39:13 PMWhenever anyone says, "I've got a bad feeling about this."
MOST... OVERUSED... LINE.... EVAR!!!!
Unless it's being spoken by Han Solo.
He was allowed as one of the first.
But now it's in every crappy sci-fi and horror flick made. And it pops up frequently in cartoons of all types.
Get some new writers! At least TRY to make it sound different!
How about: My sensation of the situation presents itself with a definite air of dismal predication. :3
Obfuscating Stupidity done badly (I'm looking at you, Vash the Stampede).
Yes, I understand that a character needs to conceal their true skills or perhaps be aloof and/or undercover, therefore necessitating they not show just how much of a complete badass they are. However, there is a line between obfuscating it neatly, and coming off like one lacks a brain, is a complete twit, and the most annoying, idiotic douche on the entire planet.
The Trigun anime has perhaps tainted me in this regard as Vash's idiot routine makes him..AAAaAAAAaargh.
Quote from: Jairus on October 12, 2008, 05:01:58 PM
Oh, and "technology/science = bad" and "old ways = good." Eurgh. I hate that trope, especially when the good guys are using the EXACT SAME TECHNOLOGY to fight the bad guys. So, "technology is bad, unless the good guys are using it?" That's like saying that "war is bad, unless we're doing it."
Have you ever seen Bakshi's Wizards? the ending is a wonderful bit of subversion, in a movie that seems to follow the magic = good, technology = bad cliché. ( also: BEST WIZARD DUEL EVER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cZqRzHnI8s)
though the site-of-the-last-battle falling apart due to the death of the final bad guy cliché is still there. I guess it was held together by the power of eeevil?
But... technology is bad...
I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that? :B
Quote from: Myxini on October 12, 2008, 10:12:26 PM
Quote from: Jairus on October 12, 2008, 05:01:58 PM
Oh, and "technology/science = bad" and "old ways = good." Eurgh. I hate that trope, especially when the good guys are using the EXACT SAME TECHNOLOGY to fight the bad guys. So, "technology is bad, unless the good guys are using it?" That's like saying that "war is bad, unless we're doing it."
Have you ever seen Bakshi's Wizards? the ending is a wonderful bit of subversion, in a movie that seems to follow the magic = good, technology = bad cliché. ( also: BEST WIZARD DUEL EVER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cZqRzHnI8s)
though the site-of-the-last-battle falling apart due to the death of the final bad guy cliché is still there. I guess it was held together by the power of eeevil?
Seen the duel, never seen the movie. It's a beautiful subversion... too bad it wouldn't work in my universe: all Modern Mages under combat conditions use magical barriers that block low-powered attacks. A revolver shot at point-black range to the face would leave a bruise, but not much else. You need heavier firepower (or magic) to fight a Modern Mage. In addition to all that, Modern Magic is extremely friendly with both technology and science. And I'm rambling here and talking about stuff that doesn't matter, so let's see if I can dredge uo another cliche I don't like and keep this on topic.
Um... hm... Empires = Evil, Kingdoms = Good. I mean, I guess that it's a minor thing, but can't we at least get some shades of gray in there?
Quote from: Alondro on October 12, 2008, 10:26:23 PM
But... technology is bad...
I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that? :B
Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.
Quote from: Jairus on October 12, 2008, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: Alondro on October 12, 2008, 10:26:23 PM
But... technology is bad...
I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that? :B
Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.
:U D:
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on October 12, 2008, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Jairus on October 12, 2008, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: Alondro on October 12, 2008, 10:26:23 PM
But... technology is bad...
I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that? :B
Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.
:U o:
Um... I don't think that's a good smiley.
Um, how about another one? Um... ancient and mystical weapons... no, I'm okay with that so long as it's done right. How about the Absolute Morality License that some Chosen Ones seem to pick up? This sort of "I'm the Chosen One and what I say is law" thing. Maybe it's just me, but that seems to show up a fair bit.
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on October 12, 2008, 10:37:22 PMQuote from: Jairus on October 12, 2008, 10:29:43 PMQuote from: Alondro on October 12, 2008, 10:26:23 PMBut... technology is bad...
I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that? :B
Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.
:U D:
I agree. You need to go out and rent The Terminator right now.
You can skip T2. It was crap, and I have many good reasons for saying so.
Quote from: superluser on October 12, 2008, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on October 12, 2008, 10:37:22 PMQuote from: Jairus on October 12, 2008, 10:29:43 PMQuote from: Alondro on October 12, 2008, 10:26:23 PMBut... technology is bad...
I mean, didn't Terminator teach us that? :B
Never watched those movies (except for the third), so I wouldn't know.
:U D:
I agree. You need to go out and rent The Terminator right now.
You can skip T2. It was crap, and I have many good reasons for saying so.
No Fate But What We Make > Judgement Day Is Inevitable.
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on October 12, 2008, 10:45:47 PMNo Fate But What We Make > Judgement Day Is Inevitable.
No fate but what we make is boring.
Plus, it was wrong.
Quote from: superluser on October 13, 2008, 12:34:48 AM
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on October 12, 2008, 10:45:47 PMNo Fate But What We Make > Judgement Day Is Inevitable.
No fate but what we make is boring.
Plus, it was wrong.
...so following that argument, predestination > free will?
You're strange.
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on October 13, 2008, 01:22:34 AM...so following that argument, predestination > free will?
No. I'm saying that, in time travel stories, predestination makes for more interesting plots.
There is no such thing as true free will, as that free will may impact on the free will of others, who may use their free will to impact on yours..
The Future isn't what you make it, truth be told, if that were the case, there'd be happy endings all round. Sadly not so, your future is what choices you make on what you have, to that end, there is a certain amount of predestination on the outcomes of those choices, good, bad, deadly. If you will.
Quote from: superluser on October 13, 2008, 01:55:27 AM
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on October 13, 2008, 01:22:34 AM...so following that argument, predestination > free will?
No. I'm saying that, in time travel stories, predestination makes for more interesting plots.
Mostly because of the I.Q. time traveling discrepancy. The less you know about the time you're going to, the more you can change it without causing a temporal paradox and destroying everything in existence (A.K.A. the more useful you are.)
Essentially, if a person goes back in time, he's still tethered to his knowledge of the past (if he stops something he knows to happen, how will he know to stop it?) and anything that encounters him ALSO becomes tethered to his past by the manipulations of the fine details said character DIDN'T know.
Anyway, I dislike most films that display "absolutes" of good and evil, mostly because of their tendency to get very political depending on the view of the writer/director and the characters wind up very flat. For example: "I must let him go since he's unarmed despite the fact he's a raving fanatic and will probably show up to try and kill me again because I'm arbitrarily listed as the 'good guy.'" or "I must destroy everything because I'm evil and need no other reason bwha-ha-ha-ha." Sometimes that last bit can be changed to "feeding my evil military war machine," but it's still the same formulae.
Sadly many films start devolving as they go into this. The exception being action films that fall under "Plot? What Plot? Hey Look big explosions!" and pretty much started off that way.
Quote from: Turnsky on October 13, 2008, 02:00:21 AM
There is no such thing as true free will, as that free will may impact on the free will of others, who may use their free will to impact on yours..
The Future isn't what you make it, truth be told, if that were the case, there'd be happy endings all round. Sadly not so, your future is what choices you make on what you have, to that end, there is a certain amount of predestination on the outcomes of those choices, good, bad, deadly. If you will.
And if that were true, there would be NO happy endings.
Fact is, there's something you left out of your logic there and that is: Only those who you LET impact your free will CAN impact your free will (a choice in and of itself). Just because a government punishes you for it, doesn't mean you comply with the government as the story goes.
Quote from: Valynth on October 13, 2008, 03:07:40 AM
And if that were true, there would be NO happy endings.
Fact is, there's something you left out of your logic there and that is: Only those who you LET impact your free will CAN impact your free will (a choice in and of itself). Just because a government punishes you for it, doesn't mean you comply with the government as the story goes.
ah, but the important thing here is /choice/ however, there are some things that one must do, that they cannot choose to do, inversely, one can choose to do them, then live with the repercussions, which may not be a choice in its own right.
and there are no Happy endings, strictly speaking, you're forgetting that the end hasn't come yet. >:3
One that annoys me: "Based on a True Story".
When I see this in a movie, I know that the true story (assuming there ever was one) was one of the first things to be discarded in the writing of the script.
I agree. You cans say most any movie is based on some radom true story such that something that happened in life gave the person an idea for part of the movie. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre for example was pretty much only based on the true story by having a chainsaw used, but in reality it wasn't used to kill the people.
Something that is very vexing in so many movies and games is how in battles whenever someone gets a most excellent surprise attack which could easily produce a win, that person screams random nonsense and gives himself away to possibly loose the fight. Sure some things are more interesting with a real battle, but they don't have to start off in such a pathetic way.
Another thing about fights, oftentimes when a hero is still fighting solo the fight is almost always won, sometimes by that hero nearly dying. Once that hero gets a partner in combat the hero suddenly can't fight as well and would die over and over would it not be for the partner to come and protect from the finishing blows.
And just for fun I wouldn't mind seeing something where the world does get destroyed. Even if it's not the real ending, Shadow the Hedgehog does pretty well on that. :januscat
Quote from: Lysander on October 13, 2008, 10:32:48 AMAnd just for fun I wouldn't mind seeing something where the world does get destroyed. Even if it's not the real ending, Shadow the Hedgehog does pretty well on that. :januscat
Neon Genesis Evangelion?
Anyway, I find it pretty weird when - specially on animes or japanese games - there is a male hero, a cute girl, and a blazing hot chick, and in the end the hero gets the cute girl and the hot chick ends up single
Quote from: Jack McSlay on October 13, 2008, 06:56:26 PMAnyway, I find it pretty weird when - specially on animes or japanese games - there is a male hero, a cute girl, and a blazing hot chick, and in the end the hero gets the cute girl and the hot chick ends up single
Hey--you're right!
Quote from: Jack McSlay on October 13, 2008, 06:56:26 PM
Quote from: Lysander on October 13, 2008, 10:32:48 AMAnd just for fun I wouldn't mind seeing something where the world does get destroyed. Even if it's not the real ending, Shadow the Hedgehog does pretty well on that. :januscat
Neon Genesis Evangelion?
Anyway, I find it pretty weird when - specially on animes or japanese games - there is a male hero, a cute girl, and a blazing hot chick, and in the end the hero gets the cute girl and the hot chick ends up single
Oh you're right. I was thinking too much on those very strange end of series episodes and forgot the movies somehow... Great series. :januscat
Wolves go around singly and always attack people on sight, especially in computer games. The only one I can think of which has properly-modelled wolves is Simon the Sorcerer which has some truly beautiful scenery, complete with wildlife.
Oh, and Lazarus, but I had to fix the wolf control logic myself.
EDIT:
Oblivion's Natural Wildlife mod makes things better in that game, but it still doesn't have predator-prey relationships like Ultima 6 did...
I just remembered that enemies that are clones of the heroes with swapped palletes have been done to death and beyond...
"Finding strength in trauma". Oh, piss off.
Quote from: rabid_fox on October 15, 2008, 08:39:17 PM
"Finding strength in trauma". Oh, piss off.
But it works..
There was this time these guys followed me into the woods to beat me up because they thougth I was just a weak nerd, and I was kinda having trouble when they all piled on top of me. It was quite a lot of weight. Then they broke my glasses. Those prescription eyeglasses cost me over $100! It was traumatizing to realize I'd have to buy new ones.
It triggered the most dangerous thing you can possibly trigger in me: Rage of the Miser.
They never bothered me again after I was through with them. >:3