Poll
Question:
What would you guys like to see?
Option 1: Face tutorial!
votes: 9
Option 2: Hands!
votes: 7
Option 3: Get back to work on your comic!
votes: 16
DSOF Archives (current page) (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php) [NSFW] Occasional blood, nudity, and strong language.
Note: The DSOF archive has easter-eggs in it. These are minor elements that supplement the comic, but don't have a great impact on the story as a whole. I would request that people not publicly tell where or how to find these tidbits.
(First page) (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=1)
WhiteFox Art Department (http://whitefoxart.wordpress.com/) Sketch Blog (Defunct)
CCC#4 Dekari: (NSFW: Pg13 nudity, Blood)
Page 1 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/tiamat_1.png)
Page 2 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/tiamat_2.png)
CCC#5: Kipiru Starrider (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,5673.msg299364.html#msg299364)
Metalwork:
Silver bracelet, Handflower, and Gauntlet (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg297551.html#msg297551)
CCC#7 Corgatha Torgaldors Kendred (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3389478/)
CCC#8 Basilisks Darkshine (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3546846/)
CCC#8 Bonus comic: I blame Gabi. (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3546911/)
OSaS RP: Gabriel Cartwright (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg316467.html#msg316467)
Dumpring- Hairstyles (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg336560.html#msg336560)
CCC#12 danman's Vladim, bonus mini-gifts for danman and Basilisk (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg338264.html#msg338264)
CCC#13 Basilisk's Baseel Wolksheem (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg340454.html#msg340454) ([EDIT] And the Geurilla Warmech)
Sketch Dump (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg340804.html#msg340804) CCC #13 sketches, Chassi development art, Andrace preliminaries, and a whole lot of "other."
Untitled Ciphered Winds (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg341843.html#msg341843), Prolog and Ch.1
Ciphered Winds (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg342006.html#msg342006), Ch.2 and 3
WhiteFoxes' "How To Talk To Artists" Part 1 (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg342102.html#msg342102), covering the easy way to turn ass-pat blah comments into useful feedback.
-WF's HTTTA (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,7901.0.html) in the Long Library.
A backstory comic for Gabriel Cartwright: Steampunk, Insectis, and a little rat kid.
Page 1 (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg342170.html#msg342170)
Page 2 (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg342700.html#msg342700)
Page 3 (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg343283.html#msg343283)
Page 4 (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg345976.html#msg345976)
Page 5 (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg346525.html#msg346525)
So, I'm blinking tired of not posting stuff because my site isn't built yet. So I'm starting my new art thread here and now. Starting with posting what's currently up on my site. Which isn't much. More arts to follow, and updates on the forum cast image group pic thing.
For the record... I may know HTML, but I'm no programmer. Gah.
The Group 3 draft just got sent out to those who are in it (Zina, Tapewolf, Ren Gaulen and Ryan Galen), Except (sorta) for Saist. Saist wanted to appear in City of Heros style Enforcer armor, which I thought was so cool I'd have to draw him seperatly. (he's not the only one, Drath is getting a seperate pic too.)
A couple of people are giving me trouble. Saist, for example, i couldn't draw until I had reference. Which I now do. Jouster is giving me some trouble, mostly cause I'm not used to drawing long-necked birds as anthros, and I'm torn between going with the reference material and my own interpretation. he's pretty much the only one holding up group #4.
So... that's 3 drafts out of about 7 groups. Gee, I'm off to a good start.
Acutally, I had some medical issues to deal with two weeks back, and it's been hard getting back into my groove. Before that, I've was dithering over Saist and Jouster. I havn't forgotten this project, it's not dead, and I'm still accepting applications.
Status so far:
Group 1# (Already drawn.)
Aiyno Tajaka√
llearch n'n'daCorna√
Zedd√
Brunhidden√
LionHeart√
(IRC batch #1)
Danny√√
ShadesFox√√
Xeksue√√
Drathorin (will be drawn in biped and larger form, seperatly from the rest of the group.)
Wolven√
Group #3 (sent out for approval, except for Saist.)
Zina√
Tapewolf√
-Peace gesture
Ren Gaulen √(Appearing next to Tape)
Ryan Galen √(Appearing next to Ren, cause their names are so similar, and thus, I want him to )
Saist
Group #4 (IRC batch 2) (In progress. 75% complete.)
Tony√
janus√
Dimitri-Next to Janus√
Sofox- Leaning casually against something.
Jouster
Group #5
Valynth
Schizo
Gabi
Nelix
Mischa
Group #6 (This one will be fun.)
Keaton the Black Jackal
Hazzy
Shazzy
Sienna
Mew
Group #7
James Star Runner
Mischa
Tezkat
Cogidubnus
Thora
Group #8
Gareeku
Deeb's Giraffe
Anyway... If anyone who isn't listed wants in on this, PM me or grab me over IRC. I'd prefer you not post here, as this is my art thread and I'd like to keep it focused on that.
Just for the record, everone is going to be sent a draft (IE, Pencil drawing.) of themselves along with the group they're in. I'm not going to show the whole image until EVERYONE is drawn, inked, and colored. Cause I'm ornery, that's why.
[EDIT:] Some explainations. A √ means the character is drawn. Two means the character has been drawn, and that person has approved the drawing.
Quote from: Fox LeBlanc on June 27, 2008, 09:30:08 PM
For the record... I may know HTML, but I'm no programmer. Gah.
Heh. I dislike html archives, they're always such a pain to manage...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on June 28, 2008, 03:28:17 AM
Heh. I dislike html archives, they're always such a pain to manage...
I'm looking at some options for archiving., but for now I'm a patient sort.
So many 404s.
Quote from: Fox LeBlanc on June 29, 2008, 01:03:01 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on June 28, 2008, 03:28:17 AM
Heh. I dislike html archives, they're always such a pain to manage...
I'm looking at some options for archiving., but for now I'm a patient sort.
Heh. I have one. Don't I, Darkmoon? ;-]
Quote from: Dannysaysnoo on June 29, 2008, 04:21:03 AM
So many 404s.
What? Where?
I mean, links to placeholder pages, yes, but there shouldn't be any 404'.
Happy canada day. Have a comic.
DSOF #11 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof11.html) -How Demons say "Do Not Touch"
If you're wondering why this strip took so long... every time I do a strip, I get to a point where I say to myself, "I don't care. I just want it DONE." I got one panel done on this strip (the last one, in fact) and went into shutdown mode having driven myself into the ground. Then I had surgery, which flattened me for another two weeks.
Well, I'm back on a roll now.
Work on the cast pic continues tomorrow. I couldn't work on that project with DSOF #11 unfinished, mocking me, but it's dead to me now. I might have progress uploaded and posted by thursday, but that's tentative.
I'd have to say the feline guy is high on something here, either that or the 70 years of combat training was at the expense of his brain. Specifically, demons have nearly unlimited stamina so unless he's many thousands of years old and experienced enough to avoid it, he's going to get flattened.
Also, there are at least two Mythos either on staff or as guests...
Anyway, that's the dialogue. The art itself seems to have jumped up a few notches, and the last panel is beyond anything I remember seeing you do before.
cubi do have a tendency to think that anyone else besides another cubi is just some putz barely worth the entertainment value of watching them die. i would say its not a good survival trait for cubi.
also, thats one impressive 'pissed off face'
QuoteFie on you all!
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 02, 2008, 02:23:28 PM
Anyway, that's the dialogue. The art itself seems to have jumped up a few notches, and the last panel is beyond anything I remember seeing you do before.
That's... exactly what I was hoping to hear. :)
Quote from: Brunhidden on July 02, 2008, 02:37:32 PM
cubi do have a tendency to think that anyone else besides another cubi is just some putz barely worth the entertainment value of watching them die. i would say its not a good survival trait for cubi.
Felix is indeed quite egotistical, and more than a bit brash. He might be borderline psychotic, too. I havn't made up my mind on that point. part of his 70 years of combat training includes dealing with other creatures, however, so he might actually know what he's getting into.
Quote from: Brunhidden on July 02, 2008, 02:37:32 PM
also, thats one impressive 'pissed off face'
*Fist pump* Sweet.
Anyway.
Jouster, in the Group pic, has been slowing me down a bit. I've never had to draw anthro birds much before, that took me a day to work out. More problematic than this, however, is that the refrence pics I've gotten are highly stylized. I don't do well at imitating other peoples styles, so I had to sort out a "faithful" interpretation that I could actually draw.
Incidentaly, here's the design I worked out. I thought it was good enough, for a sketch, to share.
Jouster (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/joustersmall.jpg)
I'm going to have to double check the profile/ref pics he sent me before I acutally draw his cast image.
I'm trying something new with shading here, I got a blending stump and I've been playing around with it. Here's a larger pic, since the smaller one doesn't really do the texture justice:
Jouster, big. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/jousterbig.jpg)
It's most noticeable on the legs. I used to hate smudging to shade, but that was because the oil/sweat on my fingers would make the pencil impossible to erase cleanly and wasn't precise enough anyway. A blending stump fixes that.
Anyway... blending (AKA: smudging) the graphite gives a really smooth look to some surfaces, and in cases like the pants, lets me combine a sort of fine hatching with blending to give texture to, say, cloth. Normally I can't get a really smooth shading since the texture, or tooth, of the paper won't let me, and I can't stand drawing on really slick paper.
Here's another example I pulled from my sketchbook, and RP character of a friend of mine. (She's an android pop-star, from the Megaman X universe.) The technique is really effective here, doing a much better job of shading a matte ceramic or rubber surface then otherwise.
Lotus, Large (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/lotus.jpg)
Lotus, Small (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/lotussmall.jpg)
Once again, two versions for those who just wanna see the pic and those who wanna check out the shading in detail.
Any comments would be appreciated.
(Why is my scanner making everything look so dark? Jeez.)
Well, it definitely looks like Jouster to me.
If anyone cares, I put together a quick status page for the Group shot thing. Just bare bones text, but it works.
Here. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/ircforum.html)
"Real artists ship." Attributed to Steve Jobs, but I haven't really checked my reference here.
Bottom line, an artist can be defined as being a person who makes art. Arguments over the definition of art can rage on for centuries, but that much can be held true. I consider my skills to be passable, but that's all for naught if I am not using them.
So, for the past month I've been in a slouch. Little progress on the forum pics, DSOF and TZTA4T are giving me a roadblock, and I've started messing around with inking by hand (instead of digitally) when I should be tackling either project more seriously.
I can't let myself fade out entirely. So, I'm updating here with a few of the sketches I've done over the past month for comment and critique, or for your simple viewing pleasure.
Antaas- (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/drawing/images/Antaas.jpg)
A character in a GURPS space RP I'm running. Antaas poses as an alien in an armored suit, but is actually a human female covert operative. She's in hiding from the military at the moment. She's one of the good guys, but right now all my players *Hate* her. That's a longer story I might share if asked to. BTW: the suit has two thumbs on each hand, the sketch doesn't really show that clearly. She's standing next to a standard "Human Marine" for scale.
FoxLeBlanc-
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/drawing/images/flbsketch.jpg)
Quick little portrait of my avatar. I'm not really sure I want to go with this look though, or something more conventionaly furry. (See my previous art thread for pics of WhiteFox.) I havn't found a way to draw the ears that I'm satisfied with. By the way, this is pretty close to what I look like IRL.
Life drawing, Hand (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/drawing/images/hand.jpg)-
A LOT of artists HATE drawing hands, but I love em. I can understand, hands are hard to draw effectively unless you really understand them. I'm pretty good at life drawing, though, and they're such interesting subjects, so I get a lot of practice.
Portrait- (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/drawing/images/inkhatchedportrait.jpg)
Some of my inkwork, it's a lot darker here than on paper. First time playing around with hatching... like, ever. I don't hatch when I shade with pencil. I used a very small dip pen instead of the Micron pens I have messed around with in the past, and I LOVE them. Much cheaper too.
Knot-
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/drawing/images/knot.jpg)
This is a reproduction of a celtic knot. I draw these a LOT, so I'm surprised I havn't posted any of them here yet. This was free handed, with out grid paper, so it's a little off in places. It's also about the size of a nickel in real life... yeah, you know that small pen I mentioned above? Very small. You can't tell in this scan cause scanning butchered it, but the black spaces are actually hatched.
Ryan- (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/drawing/images/renfire.jpg)
Sketch of Ryan Galen, shooting at something. Rough as it is, I like how it came out. Whenever I work on the Forum Cast pic, I end up making little sketches like these. Most of them don't get finished, but I liked this one so I'm posting it. I could nitpick a few things, but I'm not gonna.
I should note to everyone in the forum pic that this isn't a good example of what the group pic is going to look like.
Also: I really like Ryan Galens work.
Anyway, That's some of what I've been up to for the past month. Hopefully, my next update will be more cast pics, or DSOF#12.
I like the knot.
Also, with the Antaas sketch, her legs are extremely thin; this implies that both her legs are thin, and the armour on them is also thin...
Aha. I'm ahead of you on that one. In the RP, one of the players was an engineer, of sorts, and did a quick on-the-spot analysis. He noticed that it *wasn't humanly possible* to have legs that thin, or shoulders broad enough, to fit in the suit.
She's quadriplegic. The suit has a cybernetic interface.
It should be noted that I can be an incredibly evil game master when I want to be.
Quote from: Fox LeBlanc on August 03, 2008, 01:25:26 AM
Ryan- (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/drawing/images/renfire.jpg)
Sketch of Ryan Galen, shooting at something. Rough as it is, I like how it came out. Whenever I work on the Forum Cast pic, I end up making little sketches like these. Most of them don't get finished, but I liked this one so I'm posting it. I could nitpick a few things, but I'm not gonna.
Also: I really like Ryan Galens work.
Just a quick check, do you mean the artist Ren Gaulen (Shades of Grey, Project Future, 'Fridge') or Ryan Galen (http://ryan-galen.deviantart.com/), who isn't renown for his art, but is a sharp and insightful poster?
They're both feline, but I suspect from the headband that you really meant Ren.
Quote from: Fox LeBlanc on August 03, 2008, 12:13:38 PM
She's quadriplegic. The suit has a cybernetic interface.
It should be noted that I can be an incredibly evil game master when I want to be.
Bwahaha, that's just evil. ;-]
Tapewolf: Yeah, that'd be Ren and not Ryan. My bad.
Not the first time I've made that mistake. Gah.
llearch: I love pulling that sort of thing on my players. I don't do it to attack the players, or screw them over, just to make things interesting.
Anyway... here's another knot. I think I might start putting one of these up with every art post I make. I should do a tutorial too.
On paper it's an inch and a quarter across.
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/knot2.jpg)
I should give credit where credit is due: these aren't original designs, they're ancient celtic art. I did, however, draw these freehand. They're not copied or traced.
Alright. So, I'm at my wits end. I started inking manually a while back. Here's DSOF #12, on my pathetic DA account cause my FTP software is giving me hassle, in B/W:
DSOF#12: It's ten o'clock. Do you know where your demon is? (http://foxleblanc.deviantart.com/art/DSOF-12-WIP-93831706)
I'm looking for feedback on the inks, so I'm posting this now. I'll color it later, as soon as I figure out how. (If anyone has any suggestions on this, I'd appreciate it.)
As a note, I did mess up in a few places. Most notably, Theonor's hands in panel 2 and 3. Not to mention the scanner/compression screwing up some of the details, especially the hair. Wynk's tail in panel two is pretty messed up, too. Lastly, my hands started getting shakey by panel 4 due to low sugars. (Isn't diabetes fun?) Ugh. Any comments and advice appreciated.
On the other hand, I REALLY love my dip pen.
[EDIT] I just noticed I forgot Theo's wings in panel two. Brilliant.
Drawing with one hand, crumpling up the page in the other.
So careful to build something, just to tear it down the next minute.
It's like chasing the dawn or grasping smoke.
Maybe I'm just mad. maybe I'm just tired.
I'm ready to scream, but all that comes out is a soft voice,
Saying "Fix it."
Pick up the pencil.
Sit down to the page.
Somethings false. Make it true. Something's wrong. Make it better.
Can't rest. Can't be satisfied.
Fix it. It's all I hear.
Fix it. Can't hear anything else. Can't hear anyone else.
It's all wrong.
Fix it.
Oh crap! Fox has gone emo! Hide the razor blades!
i quite like the perspective in this latest one, how he really does seem to be floating at an angle. also the paper tail of the warp aci is quite nice too
Quote from: Valynth on August 05, 2008, 01:20:41 PM
Oh crap! Fox has gone emo! Hide the razor blades!
Now and then I'll go emo, that's when I feel like writing. Then I remember I've been awake for 18 hours and working for most of those hours. Then I go get some sleep.
Normally, I just delete this stuff before I go to bed. Then I'm left wondering just what I'd written the night before. Kinda feels weird, looking at it now.
But yeah, it is pretty emo. I blame sleep deprivation.
Brun: Yeah. One of the things I really wanted to avoid in the comic was "Sitcom" camera angles. I love using foreshortening.
As for the Ren/Ryan thing, AFAIK I've done that once. Since then I've made absolutely sure every time.
As for the comic, I liked it and look forward to the colourised version.
Actually... I might hold off on color until I'm happy with the inks. Dunno.
Well, you know how it is some times.
This one's a more serious attempt at inking. It probably took me a week just to figure out how to get it from the page to the 'puter in a workable state. Needless to say, I don't like a lot of things about it, but at this point I'm just putting my foot down and shipping the product. Besides, I can't fix inking problems with shading. I'd rather get started on making the next one better then spend another week working on this.
Anyway, lemme know whatcha think.
DSOF 13: Rotary impeller, meet fecal matter. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof13b.jpg)
You'll notice it's bigger. This is because I was reading a comic book IRL (The Watchmen, FYI) and noticed how much smaller the text was, compared to the size of the page, then most webcomics were.
[EDIT] Which is probably how the size of the text got mismatched. I just noticed that all the type is too large, except for Theo's first line. Also, I'd like to thank Turnsky for answering my stupid questions, it was very helpful.
On another note, I'm going to officially throw the towel in for the cast pics. It's not the amount of work that's a problem, I could draw fourty figures in three days. But what's taking up my time is the amount of research involved. It was about when I was trying to draw Keaton Black Jackal when I realized that I had never actually seen a picture of a jackal. So, I looked up pics of a jackal (one day) Drew some studies (another day) started figuring out how to cartoon them (two more days) and then actually drew KBJ (Which took ten minutes.)
So that's... the better part of a week. Not to draw a character, but to learn how to draw one. Which is what happened when I drew Janus (Looking up red pandas and formal wear.) And Schizo. And Gabi (Yeah, I can't draw foxes. Not really. Yes, I am aware of the absurdity). And Dannysaysnoo. And Tajaka. Let's keep in mind here, this is 5 DAYS per person I don't know how to draw.
I'm going to ink and post the pics I do have. Those will go up another day. I'm going to keep the character descriptions I do have, and I'll probably keep working on it. But I can't say I'll make any signifigant progress. What I did get done was a lot of fun, and I feel like I know a lot of you a little better now.
Sorry, guys.
Anyway, any comments on the comic would be appreciated.
Pity about the cast pics. As for the comic, it's looking good. Presumably Jade and Felix have hidden their wings to give the other less of a target?
Quote from: Fox LeBlanc on August 27, 2008, 11:55:13 AM
On another note, I'm going to officially throw the towel in for the cast pics. It's not the amount of work that's a problem, I could draw fourty figures in three days. But what's taking up my time is the amount of research involved.[snip]
So that's... the better part of a week. Not to draw a character, but to learn how to draw one. Which is what happened when I drew Janus (Looking up red pandas and formal wear.) And Schizo. And Gabi (Yeah, I can't draw foxes. Not really. Yes, I am aware of the absurdity). And Dannysaysnoo. And Tajaka. Let's keep in mind here, this is 5 DAYS per person I don't know how to draw.
I'm going to ink and post the pics I do have. Those will go up another day. I'm going to keep the character descriptions I do have, and I'll probably keep working on it. But I can't say I'll make any significant progress. What I did get done was a lot of fun, and I feel like I know a lot of you a little better now.
I like the comic, though Jade's head looks a little strange.. but whatevah. I like Jade a lot. :3
I'm sorry to hear the cast images are taking so much of your time, Although I predicted this somewhat from the start I must say you made good progress in the meanwhile and have proven that you have been determined to complete your task. I'll be happy to see the results of your efforts, it's great that you have done this project in the first place.
Tape: Jade's wings *become* flames when she goes into combat. As for Felix, he's shapeshifted his wings into tendrils to fight with.
Aiyno: Actually, The cast pics made me realize how limited my abilities were (Especially in terms of how many animals I can draw in a furry style). I'm probably going to continue work on the project to do just that. Only reason I'm putting it on hiatus is that I can't make regular progress on it.
Quote from: Fox LeBlanc on August 27, 2008, 03:35:48 PM
Aiyno: Actually, The cast pics made me realize how limited my abilities were (Especially in terms of how many animals I can draw in a furry style). I'm probably going to continue work on the project to do just that. Only reason I'm putting it on hiatus is that I can't make regular progress on it.
Hai, Tough I must mention that you already mentioned this. ( I did read prettymuch everything you said in your last post, I'm just not one to put much thought process in my posts, cake. )
I remember this one episode of West Wing, where they're talking about... I dunno, pills for HIV or something. And... I forget who, I think Toby asks why the meds were so expensive? it costs 12 cents to make one. Leo replies, "The second one costs twelve cents to make. The first one cost fourty five million."
So, DSOF 13 took two weeks. DSOF 14 took me... A day.
DSOF #14: Say hello to my little friend (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof14.jpg)
The quality really took a hit on this one (All the feathered wings are crappy, and theo looks retarded, literally, in panel two). I scanned everything WAY too dark, and spent forever cleaning up the mess. I'll probably get better quality in the same time if I remember to get a decent scan of the linework first. On the upside, this one took a tenth the time to color as these usually do, and inking took about an hour on paper instead of a day on the computer. Really, most of the time was in fixing the crappy scan.
I would have done more to fix things up, especially cleaning up the linework, but it was all I could do produce the jpg. and upload it before I got picked up and taken out of town (I'm typing this up on my fathers computer, at the moment) I'm going to spend this weekend working on #15, doing wing studies, and Sunday I'll work more on the comic.
Poor as it is, I'm kinda proud I got this done in a single day. It'd be even better if I'd been prudent enough to get a decent first scan.
Next one'll be better. >:3
"And this... is PAIN!"
That makes up for any perceived poor quality. That was awesome.
Nice comics, you sure got movement down nicely, but if you could clear out your images a bit more would be nice, all those flaw lines make it look like a work in progress or a painted over rough sketch. Your coloring is very nice as well, love the cheetah gal. Nice!
what makes it a little funny is that he now has butterfly wings while causing pain
Voilá. DSOF #15
DSOF: You know you are getting the couch when... (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof15.jpg)
My wings. Are really. Sucking. It's getting worse too.
Ack. I just noticed how confusing the speech bubbles are for the third row of panels. The bubbles below go with the panels. I must fix that with some pointers.
Angst aside, I like how this one came out. I did what I did with the better of hte earlier ones, I decided it would be better to take an extra day to make it better. I don't do that often enough, I'm usually to frenetic about my work. Faster, faster, faster. Hurry hurry hurry.
Comments appreciated. Lemme know what you think.
(I need to draw Wynk and Ré more often.)
At first I thought Jade was telling Theo he'd wasted his talents (by hiding them). That would have made some sense given that most demons supposedly worship power and might.
As it is, it's a little surprising that she seems to be put out by it - unless of course, she doesn't buy into demon tradition.
There are reasons.
BTW: I'm color coding the speech bubbles again. Theo's are blue.
i am seeing a videogame menu that reads "Use > skill > mindfuck"
Updated the archive, which I have been massively slacking off about. All the comics are posted.
I really have to put together a proper front page. Gah.
Well, something I should have done a long time ago.
In my typical sloppy html style, may I present the results of the Forum Cast Pic Project, as they stand to this day.
Anyone who is seeing their pic for the first time and does not approve of something, please let me know immediately. There are several people here who have not proofed their drawings, notably those in group four and five.
Without further ado:
http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/cast.html
[EDIT] Info on what happened with the project here: http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg221472.html#msg221472
[EDIT2] As usual, comments appreciated.
Valynth has approved this image.
Also, the "oh crap this is gonna hurt" thought is probably going to be followed by "ah, well, it could have been worse."
To be honest, I originally planned on him simply appearing in different dimensions in a semi-subtle way, but I like the portal idea. It adds a kind of humor to it that somewhat reflects the humor in Valynth's constant resetting(from his view) story. In short, your portal idea has been baptized into Valynth's cannon, which will be up as soon as I can get some space between my job and school work to continue writing it.
In short, I love everything about the Valynth drawing, keep up the good work.
*Bows* Your words are too kind, sir, thank you.
Heh. I like what you did with the arrows; didn't quite work out, but an excellent attempt.
Well, in coloring, it'd supposedly end up looking more like a ^_^ face
More crap work.
(NSFW: some language, some blood, and a little nudie.)
DSOF #16 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof16.html)
This one's in black and white because scanning and coloring it turned out to be impossible. The darker I made the scan, the more theo's hair turned to a big black pile of mud. The lighter I made it, I started losing large amounts of linework of the characters. As for coloring it, the last panel lost a lot of it's energy when it got colored, and there were just too many gaps in the linework to do proper fills. besides that, I dripped ink on theo's face in panel two, Jade's head in panel 4-6 looks like a mushroom, and theo in frame 8 and 9 looks just goofy.
I'm posting it because I swore an oath to myself: I'd never delay posting something if making it better meant putting so much work into it that I'd end up never posting it. I mean, I'd put up a fight and do what I could, but if it meant holding off forever... well, I'm posting this and moving on.
Anyway, comments appreciated. I'm sure there's faults and merits to this thing that I'm entirely blind to right now. Also, someone tell me if they're enjoying the story at all.
Nicely, though uncoloured, I can understand why she is upset about that, I would be too.
Well, I did a little experimentation with my scanner and some inked stuff.
I did a little anatomical sketch of Felix and inked the thing, couldn't have taken me more then fifteen minutes all told. Messed around with the threshold settings to see if I could get a decent scan of it. The lesson here? erase the pencils when you're done inking.
Its' also a pretty good example of what I've been doing with anatomy, so I figured it's worth posting.
I'm not sure if this is nudity, cause there's no privates showing or anything (Well, I guess he's naked. he's not wearing any skin), and it's not really violent or per se, but I'm pretty sure this counts as NSFW. Here's the pic: Felix Lifting Something Big (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/ink/felixanat.gif). If his torso looks short, it's cause his back is really curved right now.
Back to DSOF #17 for me.
I knew I had another pic lying around.
Cast image no. 6 is up. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/cast.html)
I just want to say, half the reason I did this project was to challenge my art skills. I've drawn a lot of species and outfits that I never would have thought of on my own.
The other half was that I wanted to get to know a few of you a little better, and I feel like I have. Thanks for signing up.
(I just noticed I hadn't finished Siennia's sleeves. Crap.)
i like the happy one thats standing on one foot- excited or laughing?
That's Mew. Kinda hopping-excited-happy.
Huh. I knew I'd forgotten about something artsy.
DSOF 17 is... better then the previous, but not as good as I'd like. I'm going to have to start defining shade and highlights before I scan the image, cause I HATE photoshop and all applications like it, and the less work I have to do in Photoshop the better.
Anyway, totally NSFW (Some nudity)
DSOF#17 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof17.html)
18 might take a little while, I have some character designs to work out.
Comments and crits. appreciated.
[Edit]Finally built the archive page.
Finally did up a ref sheet for Ré, I'm not sure about the colors so I'm posting for comments.
Also, I finally nailed down a half decent technique for adding highlights and shading. Feedback appreciated.
Ré color ref. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/dsof/re.jpg)
I just noticed I forgot to add the clan mark. And ref for the eyes. Oh well.
That's Wynk up in the corner, he's next.
So that cubi is a girl pretending to be a guy..
man Dan and abel would hate him. :U
Quote from: Aiyno on September 11, 2008, 12:40:57 PM
man Dan and abel would hate him. :U
Actually, hating Felix is probably the natural order of things.
I. Am. Back.
For the past two weeks, I've been stuck in the hospital. (No emergency or anything life threatening, and since I'm in Canada Healthcare covers it. So don't worry bout me. Though there is a long story about why I was going in for five days and came out twelve days later. If you really want to know the whole story, I'll tell you about it, but I try not to spend too much time talking about my medical crap) I had no internet connection, but I did have my computer and drawing materials. It was kind of a retreat, actually, and I feel I made a lot of progress as an artists.
Anyway... for all that time, I only have one comic page to show for it. (And a huge pile of sketches, character designs, and misc. other drawings.) It was a lot of work, tho: I drew the page, didn't like it and re-drew it, partially colored it, scrapped that and drew it again, colored it almost completely before scrapping that cause the scan was just too poor quality, then colored another copy.
Which I now present to you all:
DSOF #18: If you keep making that face, Felix, it's going to stick like that. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof18d.jpg)
I need to get better at inking, mostly figuring out what line weights to use and where. At some point, my hand started getting shakey, which screwed up the bottom left panel, and a few other spots. I wasn't going to draw it a fourth time, though.
Crits, comments and questions welcome.
Oh, intrigue. That I like. The art is good too. I'm starting to feel sorry for Felicia. Why does she change her appearance to the degree she does, though? Or are we going to find that out later?
As an aside, have you worked out where their clan markings are?
Clan leaders are such bastards.
I say, if the annoyance can burn, make it burn by any means available. :B
Yeah, it's a nice page, although somewhat inconsistent maybe (??, as if I am capable of judging ) I hardly care for consistency anyway.
emotions! :)
and like Tapewolf I really hope that the explanation is given in the comic ... soon >:3 I am such a selfish entity :U
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 03, 2008, 04:46:58 PM
Oh, intrigue. That I like.
Does a comic good.
It should be noted that I am a truly sadistic GM IRL.
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 03, 2008, 04:46:58 PMThe art is good too.
Thank you. I really tried to push things, but inexperience with pens and a shaky hand really hit the quality hard. I'm glad it still stands up well.
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 03, 2008, 04:46:58 PMI'm starting to feel sorry for Felicia. Why does she change her appearance to the degree she does, though? Or are we going to find that out later?
Yep. Already have that scene planned out. >:3
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 03, 2008, 04:46:58 PM
As an aside, have you worked out where their clan markings are?
Yep. You'll probably never see Felicias.
Quote from: Aiyno on October 03, 2008, 04:49:44 PM
Clan leaders are such bastards.
Striclty speaking, Meredith isn't a clan leader or a tri-wing or anything. She is, however, fairly prominent in the clan.
Quote from: Aiyno on October 03, 2008, 04:49:44 PM
and like Tapewolf I really hope that the explanation is given in the comic ... soon >:3 I am such a selfish entity :U
It might not be anytime soon, but these things are important to the comic. So it will come.
Quote from: Fox LeBlanc on October 03, 2008, 05:01:25 PM
Striclty speaking, Meredith isn't a clan leader or a tri-wing or anything. She is, however, fairly prominent in the clan.
Yes. Tri-wings are rare (approx. 12 living in DMFA currently, out of <100 since the race began 100'000 years ago). Though you don't have to have a Tri-wing in charge of the clan... I suspect you can fork clans or something.
Like you say, I didn't really get the impression she was in
charge of the clan, more like she was just influential within it.
Well, I decided to actually put together profiles for all my characters. The only person in the comic who hasn't been profiled is Prof. Maltorius. Most of this is nothing new, but fleshes out stuff that's been mentioned or referred to in the comic.
As a challenge (and in the grand tradition of artists ripping off, plagiarizing, and stealing from imitating people they respect), I've created four secret profiles. Two of these are not linked anywhere, but can be inferred by reading the comic strip. Two of them are of characters that have yet to be named in the comic strip, but are linked from the other profiles.
There are no major spoilers here (except for one, but it'll cause more curiosity then spoiling), and most of these characters are going to show up in the strip in the next half dozen pages, or so, so I don't mind any discussion of the contents. Bonus points to whoever can find all of them, good hunting.
In the future, I'll be adding character art to all of these.
Theonor (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/profiles/theonor.html)
Jade (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/profiles/jade.html)
Felicia/Feliciano/Felix (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/profiles/felicia.html)
Wynk and Re (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/profiles/wynk_re.html)
(I just noticed... half the profiles are easter eggs. That'll change soon enough.)
[Edit] Crap. Ré's name gets messed up. I'll have to sort that out. Also, I added the archive page for DSOF #18 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof18.html)
[edit] Cleaned up numerous formatting and spelling errors. Also, to clarify, two of the hidden profiles are of characters that have been named in the comic. To find them, you'll have to type their names into the url. All files are in the same directory, and all the suffixes are .html. If anyone finds any of the profiles, feel free to link them here, if only for bragging rights. They're not going to be secret for too long.
I run RP's IRL, I really like to get into characters and plots and factions. I do the characters voices, facial expression, and get right down into the relationships between people.
I never use bigger or more monsters to threaten the characters, I find... more subtle methods. One of my players has this beautiful "Oh, my god, I just realized how screwed we are" look that I usually try to get at least once a story. (You can see the smoke coming out of his ears. It's great)
Well, my GURPS Space campaign has been scrubbed before I got to the "Best Part." I liked this one so much, I decided to make up a short story about it.
The Player characters include:
James Knight, Retired Space Marine
Joseph Hastings, Captain of the mining ship* (http://angryflower.com/oresle.html) Amberstone (Which the party is cruising around the galaxy in)
Prometheus, and ex-soldier turned scientist (His artificial intelligence, Icarus, was played by me.)
(To set the setting: Prometheus, and the party in general, have been trying to stay under the radar, schlepping around the galaxy on Joseph's mining ship. Tired of not knowing what's going on, they've extended a parley to two other NPC's. These two NPCs have tried to kill each other and the party so far, but one has an inhuman obsession with The Law, and the other considers himself the icon of a military officer. Both are lethal, but strictly adheres to the rules, so everyone should be safe. This major plot event was going to be covered on OUR NEXT GAME SESSION before I had to close the game.)
There's a lot of NPC's names, and alias' for all of em, but I tried to keep it comprehensible.
The party was a small one, just the three of them, but that was part of the agreement.
Henry Altair, (currently running under the alias of Prometheus) went through the final checklist for his battlesuit. Icarus, check the neurolinks again, would you?
There was a pause, only milliseconds, as the AI processed the request. All the uplinks to your cerebral jack look clean. The battlesuit's connections are fine, and the grav' systems all check out. I can run a weapons check now, if you think we'll need it.
Yes, thank you. I don't trust Marcus that well. He hadn't asked Icarus to check the anti-gravity systems on the suit, but Icarus was more then an automated query/response bundle of algorithms.
So much more.
James Knight shifted his shoulders, eliciting a soft whine from his battlesuits servos. "I really don't like this, Pro'." he said from the cockpit of the landing shuttle.
"We need to know what's going on, and I don't see any other way about it." Prometheus said. "If what we know about Marcus and Juno are right, they'll follow military procedure. Especially a parley."
James grunted. "I really don't like this."
"We've got Joseph in the Amberstone keeping an eye on us from orbit. If Freya or Sword move, we'll bug out. Besides, Baron South Ecliptic wont let anything get out of order in his back yard."
"Sword of Gabriel and the Freya are cruisers." James Amberstone is an ore sledge, even with the gravity drive engines she's not going to be out running them. And I don't know if Baron Novikov will risk an interstellar incident when he could turn a blind eye to everything."
Shana Ryuzanov, their third member of the party and the baron's representative on this trip, remained silent on the matter.
"Then I guess we'll try out Alistair's missiles."
James shuddered. "Those things scare me." He said. "Landing in five."
Final check, Icarus. Prometheus thought.
Everything's on-line.
Landing was routine, but despite the, eight foot tall, ton and a half of powered armor, Prometheus felt underdressed.
Marcus' already here, and Juno is landing.
A hundred yards off and a bit to the right, stood a three meter tall hunched behemoth, sheathed in bulbous dark blue armor. The equivalent of a walking tank, it housed a plethora of heavy caliber weapons that one only had access to if they were a Major in the SLH Space navy.
Which Marcus "Carnelian" Berkley was.
Housed on the monstrous back were two marine orbital drop pods, both of which were loaded. "I guess we know who Marcus brought with him." James Knight said. The conditions of the Parley specified two people for each of the three parties: given the size of Marcus' armor, this hardly seemed fair.
On his right, about a hundred yards off, Juno "Jasper" Candor was landing. As a Stellar Marshal, he was licensed to carry much heavier gear then Prometheus ever was. Standing three meters tall and making planetfall without a shuttle was another three meter tall walking war machine. Standing upright and clad in boxy, highly reflective armor, Juno's mech bristled with missile racks, arm mounted cannons and beam, and an over the shoulder Gatling gun longer then Prometheus was tall.
Prometheus definitely felt underdressed.
The three of them emerged from the shuttle, and walked out to close the triangle.
Icarus spoke. I'm receiving a comm linkup.
Patch us all in, and rout the conversation up to Jackal on the Amberstone. Prometheus thought back.
Done.
Marcus spoke first. "Receiving you, Obsidian. What are you here to talk about?"
"The Asgard. What's it for?" Prometheus said.
Marcus's voice was pure gravel over the comm. "The militarys always developing new weapons, new ships. Hardly an exception."
"Hardly." Juno cut in his voice was strained, tired, and edged with iron. It never seemed otherwise. "It's got over four thousand deck guns, that's twenty times the armament of the League Navies largest dreadnaught. Never mind the hundred fighters it carries, it has bays for sixteen cruisers."
"Icarus can't even figure out what the damn thing is for. It isn't practical for any conceivable military scenario, let alone cost efficient."
A fourth voice cut in."Then someone is lacking imagination."
It's coming from one of Marcus' pods.
Juno and Prometheus both looked over as one of the drop pods mounted on Marcus' walking tank hissed, blasted a gout of "steam" and fell to the ground. It bucked open, and another figure in a standard SLHN marine battlesuit stepped forward.
"No need to be guarded here, is there?" The battlesuits helmet unfolded, and shifted back to reveal the speakers face. The optic systems on Prometheus' battlesuit brought it up close and personal.
I'm picking up a AI. Icarus said. Titan, with Marcus, and Nosada, with Juno have been talking with me so far, but this one is being tight lipped. Prometheus didn't need Icarus to tell him: the new figure eyes said enough. Solid black with intermittent white hash marks, iconic of anyone with a wetware AI.
A whine of servos, and the chestplate of Marcus's walking tank unfolded like a flower. He sat with his legs tucked beneath him, and a harness supporting his forward posture. A picture-in-picture view sprang up, bringing his face, eyes solid red, into view.
Juno hesitated, but after a tense moment of silence the knights chestpiece jerked forward, then the entire left side of the mech shifted and folded backward. Juno, face lined with fatigue, sat leaning back in his cockpit. His eyes, red as well, were sleepless, but determined and focused.
Prometheus's folowed suit. He rarely took his suit off, but he was in fellow company. His eyes were dead black.
"Richter" He said.
"Introductions are in order." The newcomer said. "My name is Richter, my AI answers to Smythe. Known to some as 'Snowflake Obsidian'."
James swore softly. "What's he doing here?" He said.
"The Asgard is my brainchild." Richter responded. "I should be able to speak for her. And, by the way, it has a hundred and fourty fighters. For the record."
"Why build it?" Said Prometheus. "Sapphire thought it was a joke when she saw it. Allistair thought you'd be conquering alien star systems. What are you doing with it?"
"I'm not the one doing 'it'." Richter said.
"Stop playing games." Prometheus said back.
Richter started pacing. "We're going to have to go back a bit." he said.
"Artificial intelligence has always had it's limitations. Nothing could match a humans ingenuity, it's creativity and intuition. Even still, understanding body language and facial expressions has allways been beyond computers. For that matter, no robot has ever managed to walk as well as a human, with our incredible understanding of balance, momentum, and our bodies weight.
The Arclight project sought a way to overcome this. Artificial Intelligences, installed in human brains. No cybernetics, no computer surgically implanted. A direct writing to the gray matter, wetware. AIs capable of accessing a humans cerebral cortex, and more. Able to read faces, able to think instead of simply processing. You've seen the results, the leaps of technology we've all been developing. The powered armor Juno and Marcus use have Juno's weapons and Amethyst's weaponry, and Malachite is studying planetary terraforming. That used to be utter fiction. I'm sure the fact that your ore sledge in orbit doesn't seem to leave an Ion trail is significant."
James cut in over a private line. "Does he know about the gravitic drives on the Amberstone"
"As long as he doesn't know about the gravitic drives on our suits." responded Prometheus.
Richter continued regardless. "The project we were all a part of was... only a partial success. Nosada drives Juno to sleeplessness with his obsession for the executing the law. Bantam, with Allistair, is positively autistic. Matheson and Fenrex are like split personalities, only one in control of their body at a time. I'm not even sure if they're really aware of each other. I'm sure Malachite, Sapphire, and Ruby all have their quirks."
"Psalter interferes with Lorna's automated functions, her breathing and heart will arrest at times." Prometheus said. "Shelby's dead, he took a bullet in the head when he escaped the project. Match learned to take over the motor functions of their body."
"Not talking about Sapphire, are you?" Richter said. "No matter." He started pacing back the way he came. "I suppose it's no surprise that the test subjects started trying to escape. No wonder they're still in hiding now. But I'm getting distracted.
"Technology is a fickle thing. It sends things into upheaval. Gunpowder. Sailing ships. Atomic bombs. Hyperspace drives. All of these things threw the civilization of humanity into complete upheaval. As our innovations will do again. The order that the Stellar League of Humanity will be completely upended.
"And I will be there. In the Asgard. I will forge a new order with it.
"So, I meant it when I said I wasn't the one doing anything. I don't have to do anything but wait for the inevitabilities of your actions. Yours, Alistairs, Mathesons, Jamania... dozens others you haven't even met yet... all of you. I just pick up the pieces. You may reject the future, but you won't be able to convince everyone in the project to follow suit. You wont be able to even find everyone in the project, let alone convince them not to use the skills you've been given."
Prometheus felt his stomach drop. All this time he'd been evading capture, lying low, he hadn't even considered something of this scale. Too many of the projects' subjects were developing their technologies out of self defence or scientific pursuit, how easily they'd neglected the world around them. Richter was insane. He had to be.
But he was right.
Juno closed up the chestplate on his mech. "This meeting is over." He said, and the thrusters on the back of his suit spun up.
James grabbed Promethus by the arm. "We need to go. Now." Prometheus nodded, closed up his helmet, and turned to go.
"Are you sure?" Richter said. "There's room for all of you on the Asgard."
Promethus didn't listen, and continued to the shuttle. Once on board, James peeled his helmet back.
"Richter said all of you had a flaw. Something wrong with you." James said without preamble. "What's wrong with you and Icarus?"
Prometheus was silent for a moment. "There's nothing wrong with us. We don't have a flaw."
What does that mean, Henry?
I don't know, Icarus.
From here, the party had several options, but three major 'factions' stood out:
1. Hook up with the governmental agencies (IE: Baron South Ecliptic, and an unmentioned Baron Moonwall, who just happened to be Captain Hastings patron.) and attempt an orderly introduction of the technology they were developing.
2. Gather up as many of the Wetware AI recipients and form a resistance to the Asgard.
3. Heck, go with Richter and rule the known Galaxy.
There's a whole 'nother story behind how the Wetware AI's were developed in the first place, and what their purpose was. I might actually type that one up.
BTW: When I said I never needed bigger or more monsters, That doesn't actually include the Asgard. the players never would have had to fight it, and it was meant, really, to stir up their curiosity. A plot hook, so to speak. All the Wetware AI recipients had special skills, and Richters was starship design and engineering. (Alistair, Juno, and Marcus specialized in Weapons technology, Armor technology, and military tatics/strategy, and cooked up their battlesuits together. Until they all started trying to kill each other, Marcus joined up with Richter and the League Navy, Juno became an officer of the law and has been hunting Marcus ever since, and Alistair went into hiding. But that's another story.)
I don't do much writing, so comments and critiques appreciated.
Nice.
Not only twisting their perceptions of the world around them and what they're doing in it, you're also setting them up for some inter-team paranoia.
Or inter-self, in Henry's case...
Well twisted.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 06, 2008, 04:10:35 AM
Nice.
Not only twisting their perceptions of the world around them and what they're doing in it, you're also setting them up for some inter-team paranoia.
Or inter-self, in Henry's case...
Well twisted.
Actually, I don't like fomenting paranoia. I find it only slows a game down while players dance circles around each other and what are supposed to be allied NPCs.
I mean, they've got so much more to worry about...
Quote from: Fox NaBan on October 06, 2008, 02:29:59 PM
I mean, they've got so much more to worry about...
... ok,
now I'm even
more paranoid. ;-]
llearch: No, really. I try not to scare my players. I'm very open about exactly how screwed they all are, and they know it.
(EDIT: Proportions tutorial removed. Some of the images have to be retouched.)
Well, I may not draw in what anyone would call a realistic style, but this is actually extremely helpful even for the basic stuff I do. Thanks for posting this!
This is a big help to me...
I always have the trouble on where to put the wist.
Yeah, this is really nice, thanks. I've always notices a few things off in my drawings and hopefully this will change that. When I get my next picture finished I'll link the result. :januscat
Quote from: King Of Hearts on October 09, 2008, 04:26:45 AM
This is a big help to me...
I always have the trouble on where to put the wist.
The wrist is level with the inseam, and the hand goes down almost half the thigh.
I believe we evolved arms to be long enough to protect our manly bits.
And now, the male version.
Most of the steps for these are the same, except for the hourglass in step three. Male torsos are built like bricks. Extending a line straight down from the armpit rather then an hourglass.
This doesn't really hold true for a view from the back, but I'll be doing rear views later.
(Warning: The guy is nude. Mild NSFW)
The five step process. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/tutorial/proportions1m.jpg) note the change in step three.
Final images, without guides (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/tutorial/proportions2m.jpg)
The final image, with guides ghosted for readability. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/tutorial/proportions3m.jpg)
There are one or two things to note about the male frame when adding the final line work.
-Note how the muscles around the waist bulge and indent. This is essential for realism.
-there is a double crease between the pectoral and deltoid (chest and shoulder) muscles that shows up when the arm is prone. This changes when the arm is lifted up.
-Also note that the muscles on the back affect the width of the upper torso. This will be covered further when I do the rear views.
-The jaw is much more squared off then the female face.
-Guys muscles are much more defined then girls. This isn't sexist: the layers of a female humans skin have differences in the layers that obscure and smooth over a lot of the creases.
Anyway. Once again, if those who know better could correct any mistakes, please do.
If this helps your work, I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
[Edit] It's kind of silly warning someone that images are NSFW as they are looking at them. Changed the images to links.
Anatomy pics!
Before I do the write up for these, I'd appreciate it if I could get some feed back from any other artists that might know something about anatomy. (That and I'm too tired to do the writeup, but I'm really excited about these)
Illustration of the muscles. The legs aren't entirely accurate, but I don't have very good refrence for them.
http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/tutorial/fem_muscle.jpg (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/tutorial/fem_muscle.jpg)
And surface illustration showing the effect of the muscles on the surface of the skin.
http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/tutorial/fem_surface.jpg (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/projects/tutorial/fem_surface.jpg)
I gotta do more drawings that aren't cell shaded. These were fun to do.
That first image is busted.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 10, 2008, 03:26:26 AM
That first image is busted.
*twitch*
(speaking clamp-jawed) It is
fixed.
not bad. I think some parts look masculine - such as the neck and the arm musculature. I get the impression the head is too small too
I like watching you work, Fox.
It's always interesting, even if I don't have a lot I can say about it at the time.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 10, 2008, 03:41:26 PM
I like watching you work, Fox.
It's always interesting, even if I don't have a lot I can say about it at the time.
Wow... that's very generous of you. Thanks.
Jack: Hm. I'm going to have to tone some of that down then.
I like the tutorials, the mention about the females appearing somewhat, yeah what Jack sai, oh well *shrugs*
I just wanted to note that the topic title has not changed at the time and still shows only female anatomy, while male is the most current.
Well, first I posted the male and female proportions tutorials, and these are the female *anatomy* reference images. So, the title is up to date.
Just quickly cause I failed to hit post last time and closed the wrong browser while typing this out:
In your 5 part 'by the head' style proportion pictures indicating the legs and top are the same proportions may be helpful. (Or it looks close to this by my eye). Mabey with ghost heads in legs ? Or red leg bar duplcated in the torso+head area?
I really like how you did the shoulder, elbow, wrist locations. Other guides say it, but show it not nearly as clearly or nicely.
Get 10 other opinions first, but mabey nudge the elbow down a touch towards the bellybutton, cause the forarms look abit short.
I did mention that the line for the feet is equal to the height of the four circles, but not very clearly. I should reword that.
And, actually, putting in some circles in green would be a good idea.
As for the forearm... everything I've been able to tell about the elbow is that it is exactly halfway between the wrist and the center of the shoulder.
It might be the muscles look off, or I miscalculated the overal length of the arm. I can tell you the elbow is level with the narrowest point of the waist. Thanks for pointing that out.
In my defence, I argue this constitutes a request. (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4811.msg235369.html#msg235369)
And so, The result. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/renxllearch.jpg)
Not bad for 30 mins work.
*snicker*
Ohh... By a box, that's gotta suck. Or would that perhaps make it better? :januscat
Quote from: Fox NaBan on October 11, 2008, 04:49:25 PM
In my defence, I argue this constitutes a request. (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4811.msg235369.html#msg235369)
And so, The result. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/renxllearch.jpg)
Not bad for 30 mins work.
! :dface
DO NOT WANT!!! D: (I laughed hard - once I realized who was being "waped" and why.)
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 11, 2008, 04:50:59 PM
*snicker*
You.. MONSTER!! :dfaceQuote from: Lysander on October 11, 2008, 06:24:13 PM
Ohh... By a box, that's gotta suck. Or would that perhaps make it better? :januscat
You'll never know until you try it yourself... :shifty
(EDIT: Anatomy reference removed.)
The deltoid link is busted - no .jpg on the end.
The brachials link is busted, no .jpg, and the brachials back link is totally missing the filename. brachb.jpg doesn't exist on the server, either.
calf.jpg is missing from the server, as well.
Other than that, the images are all interesting.
*Sigh* links fixed. You'd think I'd have learned this lesson by now.
anatomy is boring. :kruger ka-slice ahh skeleton that's the ticket
*Sigh* I am so glad to get these off my desk. Sorry the coloring is rough, but my head was near exploding.
DSOF19 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof19.html)/DSOF20 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof20.html): New Arrivals [Edit] Screwed up the link to 20. Gah.
15 bonus points if you can guess what their names are.
By the way: Ntpxl's name is in fact a magical rune that is unpronounceable. Yes, it is a Warp-Aci.
A long while back, someone popped the question as to what someone could do with 'cubi shape-shifting powers. This immediatly popped into my head. Designing the outfit took me about four months of work, and about six revisions total. The knot on her outfit is one continuous line, and at no point does the line cross over or under twice in a row. (I can draw this character three inches tall, by the way, without reducing the detail on knot. But now I'm bragging) Incidentally, my rudimentary skills with a pen have butchered most the lines on the design, especially the longer curves, but I'm working on it.
Anyway... feedback appreciated. I'm still mad at my inking skills.
DSOF #21 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof21.html) [EDIT] Link fixed.
Comments and critiques appreciated.
As a part of my ongoing effort to improve my skills, I'm going to try updating DSOF every Monday and Friday from now on. I know I can handle the workload, easily, and I've got a firm belief that reliability is an important part of being a serious cartoonist. I should have started doing this a long time ago.
As for the tutorials... I feel bad about taking them down, but I felt I had to. I had problems with a few points, and I haven't been able to resolve them satisfactorily. Although it wounds me to fail, I don't want to teach flawed techniques. I'm very much a junior here, and all I can do is share what I know. Which is fine when I'm writing a crit on someone else thread, but "The best I can do" isn't enough if I'm trying to write a definitive article on a subject.
I had a moment of clarity yesterday, right when I was in the worst sort of mindset (grade-A emo). I don't really care that my art isn't the best. I love making it, and it's going to keep improving (Heck, that's why I started DSOF. To have a project that I could work on on a steady basis). I want to be a graphic novelist, and I've had people politely put a hand on my shoulder and quietly suggest that I'm a long way from it (I've had it said bluntly and condescendingly too). That's fine. I'm not doing much else with the next ten or fifteen years of my life. I could get depressed about my work, or I could enjoy making it. I think I'll enjoy the ride.
Really, even if I become as good as I want to be, art isn't going to make me rich or famous. And I don't need it to. I'll take Bohemianism over the mainstream.
Quote from: Fox NaBan on October 27, 2008, 11:42:27 PM
DSOF #21 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof21.html) [EDIT] Link fixed.
Comments and critiques appreciated.
"ulterior", not "alterior", in terms of motives.
As for consistency in updates - I'm all for it.
Quote from: Fox NaBan on October 27, 2008, 11:42:27 PM
As a part of my ongoing effort to improve my skills, I'm going to try updating DSOF every Monday and Friday from now on. I know I can handle the workload, easily, and I've got a firm belief that reliability is an important part of being a serious cartoonist. I should have started doing this a long time ago.
Excellent. Like the plot twist, by the way... I hadn't seen that coming.
Quote from: Fox NaBan on October 27, 2008, 11:42:27 PM
Really, even if I become as good as I want to be, art isn't going to make me rich or famous. And I don't need it to. I'll take Bohemianism over the mainstream.
Two things.
The Phrase "Starving artist" has a lot of credence, and Artists of even a reasonable amount of skill only became really famous after they fell off this mortal coil. >:3
llearch: Damn you, confounding english language!
Tapewolf: I love a good twist.
Turnsky: Believe me, the thought had occurred to me.
Eighth rewrite. I need to stipulate: I'm not mad, I'm not depressed. Try to read this with a neutral tone.
A lot of people just tell me how bad I am at what I do, and won't actually help me get better at it.
If I say I don't think I'm very good, people say I'm emo and depressing and I should get over it. If I seem confident about my work, others tell me I have a long way to go and need improvement. Neither of these things are actually teaching me anything, and both just make me feel bad about myself. Most of these people haven't even read my comic or seen my work.
I don't need you to tell me I should be studying anatomy. As a matter of fact, I've said repeatedly that I'm trying to study anatomy.
I've read the books. A lot. But that only does so much. More often then not, I know that something is wrong, or even know why it's wrong. But I can't seem to fix it, or do it right. Pretty much the whole reason I'm on the board at all was because I'm hoping someone will say something that might help, or give me a direction to go in. I don't have the option of going to college and talking to people who know what they're talking about. I come here and I talk to you guys.
I make a lot of comments, I do a lot of critiques. Maybe people think I'm egotistical, or self important, or that I think too much of my skills. I'm trying to give feedback and maybe help people the way I want help. I know my opinion isn't solid gold, or infallible. I just say what I think, and hope it's useful.
[Edit] Thanks to how long this took to write, I'm never going to get DSOF #23 up by Monday.
God, thats the best I can do after a couple hours and eight rewrites? I really oughta stop posting late at night.
No DSOF. I forgot that whenever I have a deadline, no matter how far away, I get an instant writers block.
I spent the weekend doing little sketches. Me Ma picked up a "Bleed-proof Marker Pad". It takes ink a hundred times better then the sketchbook I've been using.
Most of these are about two inches square on the page.
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/ink/portrait01.jpg)
Trying to figure out the placement of the shoulders in relation to the head and torso at a 3/4ths angle. Somethings wrong with the chin line, or the shoulder on the left.
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/ink/portrait02.jpg)
I was trying to sort out the neckline here. I made five or six of these in pencil, and inked the best one. Couldn't figure out the shading on the left side of the neck. Feedback appreciated.
No pupils...
Creepy...
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/ink/portrait03.jpg)
I like this one. Since I had really crappy paper before now, I've never really been able to get into heavy shadows. I don't really like the V line on the forehead, I kinda knew there was supposed to be lines there but didn't really know how to draw them. Here's a figher res. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/ink/portrait03.5.jpg)
Since the paper is a lot smoother, I find the lines are a lot smoother. The pen's easier to control. Normally, I don't like the feel of smooth paper for drawing on, but I love what it does for inks.
Of course, I've know that paper without tooth is much better for inks for a long time, but never actually took the time to try it. Fancy that.
With the middle image, the right hand side shadow has the light high and to the left. The left hand side has it low and behind the shoulder.
And you're not showing the curvature of the hollow in the collarbone.
I think that's what's messing it up. Get some light in the right angle, a mirror, and remove your shirt. That might help identify it...
[Edit] Cut out a bunch of stuff that doesn't really matter. I need to stop posting when I'm tired.
I still kinda like this tho. Any responses appreciated. Sorry for the bad cropping
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/wingsketch.jpg)
My comment may be a bit off, but I had to congratulate you on the wings that turned into ornaments of the dress- I mean that was just awesome, I spent at least five minutes tracing the crisscrossing lines with my eyes! Very nicely done!
:blink
Wut?
Quote from: Eagle0600 on November 07, 2008, 05:55:19 PM
:blink
Wut?
Kipiru's talking about this (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof20.html). I think so, anyway.
Cool wings and heads, Fox.
Quote from: Fox NaBan on November 06, 2008, 10:47:38 PM
[Edit] Cut out a bunch of stuff that doesn't really matter. I need to stop posting when I'm tired.
I still kinda like this tho. Any responses appreciated. Sorry for the bad cropping
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/wingsketch.jpg)
nice, a little short for my tastes, but the structure's right.
Yes, those wings do look good, and yes, they are a little short. Basically:
:yeahthat
Quote from: Jairus on November 07, 2008, 06:06:49 PM
Quote from: Eagle0600 on November 07, 2008, 05:55:19 PM
:blink
Wut?
Kipiru's talking about this (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof20.html). I think so, anyway.
...
Ahh, that makes sense. And I agree, that was well done. I like how it looks a little like Celtic knots.
Quote from: Eagle0600 on November 09, 2008, 03:03:15 AM
Yes, those wings do look good, and yes, they are a little short. Basically:
:yeahthat
When I did these, I drew the bones as the same length as the arm. They do look small, compared to how large birds wings actually are and how most artists online draw them, but I'm starting to like that scale.
Quote from: Eagle0600 on November 09, 2008, 03:03:15 AM
I like how it looks a little like Celtic knots.
I should hope so. I've been drawing celtic knots for over a decade. I should do a tutorial on the methods of construction.
It takes surprisingly little time to draw. Well, more time then most characters, but not a lot more.
Working out a consistent spot pattern for Jade's back when she gets all fired up. I liked how it came out enough that I felt like posting it.
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/dsof/Jadespots.jpg)
Incidentally, this is the first sketch of the pattern I did. I've tried three times, to no avail, to reproduce it.
On another note, my drawing skills are doing weird things style wise. I'm trying to decide between doubling my efforts to finish the next DSOF, or making another tutorial.
[EDIT] I should probably tag this NSFW.
The neck looks a little long, though I guess that isn't really the focus of the picture.
And yes, I'm starting to have the same problem. As if Amber's grumbling about Abel wasn't enough to warn most sensible people away from spotted characters...
*wistles* while at least they are cubi shape shifters. At least a better reason than 'a wizard did it'
Honestly I don't have tips on how to draw a character the same more than once. Stripes and spots and patterns, is it possible to have a negative value of tips ? The key is too many spots/strips to ever be sure if it changes?
But at least it worked nicely once for you :)
Quote from: Tapewolf on November 14, 2008, 03:02:26 PM
The neck looks a little long, though I guess that isn't really the focus of the picture.
And yes, I'm starting to have the same problem. As if Amber's grumbling about Abel wasn't enough to warn most sensible people away from spotted characters...
i've learnt that 'scatter' settings in photoshop's brush palette is good enough for most spots, albeit inconsistant in some areas.
Quote from: Turnsky on November 15, 2008, 12:31:22 AM
i've learnt that 'scatter' settings in photoshop's brush palette is good enough for most spots, albeit inconsistant in some areas.
One of the things I'm doing is to ensure that the spotty characters are always well-dressed, as opposed to Abel who goes around barechested a lot. That means I only have to worry about the face and hands.
I usually try to find a systematic way of arranging the spots that looks random enough, but can be filled in swiftly. Jade's here are pretty regular, but I like em.
I say, go with no pattern specific pattern at all, It worked or Abel... at least I don't think he had a consistent pattern early on.
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on November 15, 2008, 06:38:05 PM
I say, go with no pattern specific pattern at all, It worked or Abel... at least I don't think he had a consistent pattern early on.
Abel has seven spots which always remain the same, or so I've heard. I'm not sure whether that includes the spots on his face.
This sketch is so messed up, I couldn't not post it. :3
I was noodling around, and ended up drawing characters based on my meds:
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/medigals.jpg) (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/medigals.jpg)
(EDIT: *Facepalm* added a [url] the [img] to the full sized pic. Oh Auto-Image-Shrinking, how could I forget about you?)
From left to right:
Certa: For Concerta. The doc kept mentioning how amazingly high-tech this pill was, 'cause it was formed with layers that dissolved over time, making it a once a day pill instead of six a day. Hence the layers of armor. She looks like a power ranger, which I find amusing.
Touch: My One Touch Ultra glucose meter is tiny, and takes five seconds to do it's thing. Can you tell I played Mega Man games when I was a kid?
Lisi and Lipi: Lisinopril and Lipitor are two meds I got put on to lower the risk of diabetic complications. Lipitor is for cholesterol, hence not a gram of fat on her (I know that's not how cholesterol works. Artistic license) Lisinopril does good things for a diabetics eyes, liver, and kidneys, but it's for hypertension so she ended up buff and athletic. Lisi is smooth and a easy an easy to swallow pill, hence her laytex outfit (Edit: Those are shiney-highlights, not nips. Pervs), and Lipi is really chalky and bitter, hence her rougher look.
Rapid and Lant: Novorapid is my short-acting insuline, so she's active looking. Latus is my once a day, long acting, basal insulin. It take it at the same time every day and it works for exactly 24 hours. Thus, she ended up getting a straight business, no nonsense look. (I didn't finish drawing the business apparel for her, tho) They both have long, spikey fingers cause I take needles for insulin. Lant is tall because the bottle lantus comes in is taller and thinner then the Novorapid.
That's called personification right? Awesome job =D
BTW i voted 'hands' ;P
Personification. That's the word I was looking for.
I was going to say anthropomorphic, but for the most part this board is furry so it didn't seem appropriate.
Also: Turned the image into a link to the full size image.
"Anthropomorphic Personification" is the technical term...
Death being a tall bony dude in a robe is another example of the same thing.
With regards to the title: Not Enough. :P
Quote from: Mowser on November 17, 2008, 10:18:58 AM
With regards to the title: Not Enough. :P
I dunno... I could probably make a comic based on the ones I got now.
@llearch:
Do Transformers count as Anthropomorphic Personifications?
(To paraphrase Amber: "NERRRRRRRRRRRDS!")
No, they count on their fingers.
They're robots. I think they can do math in their heads.
Some of them, at least... Maybe.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 17, 2008, 07:04:23 AM
"Anthropomorphic Personification" is the technical term...
Death being a tall bony dude in a robe is another example of the same thing.
Somewhat fuller description of same. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnthropomorphicPersonification)
Yeah, but it's on that-site-that-sucks-everyone-in-and-eats-their-lives.
;-]
Still working on DSOF. Only problem being that the thought of opening Photoshop brings on a sensation akin to looking at a red hot stove element that I have to put my hand on. Trepidation, or dread, or something.
Since I don't have any drawing to do for DSOF, I keep coming up with weird stuff. Like anthropomorphized medications.
And guns.
Gun Group 1 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/gunluv.jpg)
Gun Group 2 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/gunluv2.jpg)
Though the med gals are personified objects, these guys are more like characters that express their personality by their choice of weapon. There's gotta be a word for that. I had fun coming up with accessories for these guys.
Anyway, short bios:
Buck: Buckshot. Mmm, shotgun.
Ott: As in double-ought. 00-buckshot.
Cal: Caliber. Carries a rifle, probably a Remington out of a western. I kinda pictured these three as good ol' farmboys.
'Ine: Wonder Nine, with two glocks.
Mat: Automatic. I think I got the look of his gun out of a Shadowrun sourcebook.
Bull and pup: Bullpup weapons have the bolt (And usually the magazine) placed behind the trigger. Bull has a SA80, or maybe a FAMAS, which you can't see very much of, and Pup (his younger brother) has... I dunno, some SMG I made up on the spot. If I were to do a comic about these guys, I'd probably give him an FN-P90
The Enforcer: An Enforcer is an M1 Carbine with the barrel and stock cut down, turning the weapon into a .30 semi-automatic pistol.
Calico: The Calico SMG is a gun with a rather unique Helical magazine. Hers is too short in front, again drawn from vague memory.
This page is a lot more sketchy, sorry.
Fort': The AK-47 is a weapon that I've seen in movies a hundred times but couldn't really describe it to you if you asked me to. All while I've been drawing this, I had that quote from Lord of War running through my head: "An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand... The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag." Kinda scary, actually.
Emm: M16. Again, the only real detail I remembered was the fat part of the barrel, and that it probably had a scope.
Breach and Bolt: Twins, in matching kevlar unitards and soundproof headgear, carrying an MP5K and an SP89, very roughly drawn. The MP5K used to show up in so many movies (nowadays, it's the FN-P90) I always thought of it as a stereotypical Hollywood gun. Hence the cheerleader quality to these two.
Anyway... If I weren't working on DSOF, I actually had an idea for a comic for all these guys. at this rate, if I need something to draw while I'm sittin in the cafe (okay, Dairy Queen. It has free refills), I might end up making it before DSOF ever gets done.
Bullpup mainly refers to the reciever assembly being behind the trigger, the magazine often follows..
however, FNP90's don't load from the buttstock, but rather they load from the top.
Reference photos are your friend, obviously you did not use 'em.
On the FN P90, the bolt action is located well behind the trigger which is what, as far as I know, defines a bullpup. The P90 is called a bullpup wherever I've read about it too (not just Wikipedia, either).
As for reference, I wasn't at my computer at the time so I didn't have any. They're just prelim sketches, which I like to keep fast and loose. Taking the time to look up each gun would have disrupted my flow. Besides that, I hadn't even decided what kind of gun some of these people were going to be using, especially Mat and 'Ine (Upon checking reference, I think I had imagined something like a Px4 for 'Ine). If I were to make a comic about these guys, I would iron things out and get ref pics.
Quote from: Fox NaBan on November 20, 2008, 01:39:29 PM
On the FN P90, the bolt action is located well behind the trigger which is what, as far as I know, defines a bullpup. The P90 is called a bullpup wherever I've read about it too (not just Wikipedia, either).
As for reference, I wasn't at my computer at the time so I didn't have any. They're just prelim sketches, which I like to keep fast and loose. Taking the time to look up each gun would have disrupted my flow. Besides that, I hadn't even decided what kind of gun some of these people were going to be using, especially Mat and 'Ine (Upon checking reference, I think I had imagined something like a Px4 for 'Ine). If I were to make a comic about these guys, I would iron things out and get ref pics.
i'm only buying part of that excuse, you know what a P90 is, that means you've seen it at least once, you oughta know then that there is no magazine feed on the bottom of the buttstock.
(http://world.guns.ru/smg/fn_p90_1.jpg)
http://world.guns.ru
i'm not buying "breaking my flow" either, i've found the need for reference photos often goes with the flow, so to speak.
The magazine being placed under the buttstock doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it's a bullpup. The point is that the *bolt* is located behind the *trigger*.
In the image you just posted, the bullets feed into the bolt on the end of the magazine closer to the stock. Ergo, the bolt is behind the trigger, thus it is a bullpup. It's an unconventional Bullpup, as compared to an SA80 or FAMAS, but it's a bullpup.
Furthermore, To quote the site you just linked me:
"To save on size and weight, FN designers put new weapon into compact and lightweight stock of bullpup layout..." ( http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm , second paragraph of the description)
Quote from: Fox NaBan on November 20, 2008, 08:42:29 PM
The magazine being placed under the buttstock doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it's a bullpup. The point is that the *bolt* is located behind the *trigger*.
In the image you just posted, the bullets feed into the bolt on the end of the magazine closer to the stock. Ergo, the bolt is behind the trigger, thus it is a bullpup. It's an unconventional Bullpup, as compared to an SA80 or FAMAS, but it's a bullpup.
Furthermore, To quote the site you just linked me:
"To save on size and weight, FN designers put new weapon into compact and lightweight stock of bullpup layout..." ( http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm , second paragraph of the description)
i'm not disputing that fact.
i'm disputing that what you drew was not, infact and FN P90, i made mention earlier that bullpup is when the receiver assembly is located behind the trigger, that means the bolt, ejection mechanisms, springs and whatnot. Generally referred to as the 'action' traditional rifles such as the AR-15 derivatives (M16, m4 carbine, etc) have their action ahead of the trigger.
being australian, i know my Bullpup weapons, the standard issue assault rifle for australian military forces is the Austrian Built Steyr AUG. The true advantage of bullpup designs is not just the compact size, it's the fact that you have the same length of barrel for a smaller weapon.
The IMI Tavor, the aforementioned Steyr, the P90 (famous for its rife use in stargate). the french built FAMAS (very distinctive rifle, that), and the modular Fabrique Nationale F2000.
(http://www.civiliangunner.com/images/FNF2000TOP.jpg)
what you drew there looked more like a cut-down submac version of an SA-80
Ah. Therein lies the confusion. The gun in the picture is not, nor was it intended to be, an FNP90:
Quote from: Fox NaBan on November 19, 2008, 10:17:19 PM
and Pup (his younger brother) has... I dunno, some SMG I made up on the spot.
(Probably inspired by the one in Halo 2)
Followed by:
Quote from: Fox NaBan on November 19, 2008, 10:17:19 PM
If I were to do a comic about these guys, I'd probably give him an FN-P90
So I was arguing a completely different matter. Sorry for the mix up.
On another note, while we're talking about Steyr and Bullpups, I was going to draw a character (Bull+Pup's sister) called 'Chette with a Steyr ACR. I wasn't sure if they actually made a production version of the gun, though, and I couldn't think of any other weapon that used fléchette rounds. (Except as shotgun shells, now that I think about it. Hm...)
Quote from: Fox NaBan on November 20, 2008, 09:24:05 PM
Ah. Therein lies the confusion. The gun in the picture is not, nor was it intended to be, an FNP90:
Quote from: Fox NaBan on November 19, 2008, 10:17:19 PM
and Pup (his younger brother) has... I dunno, some SMG I made up on the spot.
(Probably inspired by the one in Halo 2)
Followed by:
Quote from: Fox NaBan on November 19, 2008, 10:17:19 PM
If I were to do a comic about these guys, I'd probably give him an FN-P90
So I was arguing a completely different matter. Sorry for the mix up.
On another note, while we're talking about Steyr and Bullpups, I was going to draw a character (Bull+Pup's sister) called 'Chette with a Steyr ACR. I wasn't sure if they actually made a production version of the gun, though, and I couldn't think of any other weapon that used fléchette rounds. (Except as shotgun shells, now that I think about it. Hm...)
heh, no worries, just for the sake of interest, there are a couple of bullpup shotguns around, the H&K CAWS and Pancor Jackhammer, i believe.
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh18-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh10-e.htm
An entire month between comics. This is unacceptable. Though the quality is not what I'd like I'm going to put my foot down, label it done, and move on the next page.
DSOF 22: Intimidating people never really works in this comic. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof22.html)
Panel one is wierd cause Jade is supposed to be sitting in shadow. Hence, her lack of a foot: I didn't draw one cause you weren't going to be seeing it. Lesson learned. The inks got screwed up because of a ruined Pen nib. Second lesson learned. I could go on about stuff I don't like about it art wise, and there's a lot I don't like, but I'd rather hear what you think about the page.
Might I suggest "first" and "last" links?
Or are you coding all the links and pages by hand, each time?
I have a template text file that I just punch in the .jpg for the comic, the previous and next urls, and upload it. That's why the current comic always has a broken link for the next comic.
As soon as I get a front page built, I'm going to put in First and Today links in. That means rebuilding the entire archives, but once I have a front page I'll probably want new/decent graphics and layout too so I'll need to rebuild it anyway.
mmkay. I prefer to write code so I just have to put in the image file and add a line to the db, but that's just me.
And I'll admit I'm special like that... ;-]
Heck, I wish I could build a decent archive. But I have to choose between learning art and learning HTML and PHP. And though art and coding frustrate me, art frustrates me in a good way.
Who knows. Maybe once I start making comics more then ONCE A MONTH I might need an automated database.
Just got back from life drawing studio. It went really well.
There are sometimes where I go in and I'm not really drawing, I'm just putting lines on a page. Today was not one of those days. Unfortunatly, most of the people there prefer 30 second to one minute poses, which aren't very good for posting. These two are ten and five minute poses, respectively.
(Warning: NSFW for nudity)
Ten minute sketch (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/life/01_10.jpg)
Five minute sketch (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/life/01_5.jpg)
I should be able to get a lot more then that done in 5 or ten minutes, but I'm still pretty slow.
I should note that there is a difference between a studio and a class. There's no teacher or instructor running things. It's just show up and draw.
(Edit: originally this post had thumbnails that linked to full size pics. TN's removed.)
Fox, for these sorts of drawings, one would expect links, not img tags.
Just a suggestion, mind. I mean, you _did_ tag the thread, so you got that far. ;-]
Hm. You're right. I mean, I'll eventually post something that Isn't nsfw, and the thread won't be tagged, and this will still be up. Can't have that.
[EDIT] Actually, those were supposed to be thumbnail IMG's with URL tags to the full size. Bad time to start using thumbnails.
Nice drawings, though. I'm inclined to wonder what you'd manage with a half hour to draw in, with the same subject.
Next week I'm going to make sure we get a 20 min. pose in. That should be interesting.
It's monday. It's a new strip. Cool. I mean, late Monday, but still monday.
NSFW: Mild nudity.
DSOF #23: Not quite getting sent to the Headmistresses office. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof23.html)
llearch? I found the spell checker in Photoshop. I just know you're going to love that.
Anyway... comments and feedback appreciated.
*snerk*
... both for the spell checker and the exposition... Or is it expose? ;-]
"Women... think in paragraphs. Great.... big... slabs of thought-meat." -Some comedian. I forget.
If there's two things I will hate in a comic, it's a story that's nothing but a huge backstory (IE: Queen of Wands and Demonology 101) and comics that have waaay too much text. Everything else I can forgive, maybe not like, but forgive, but those two are just bad storytelling.
DSOF hasn't been too bad on backstory, but it's had a lot of exposition (What are cubi. What is SAIA. What does Theo do, or is he just a college slacker?) so I've been trying to cut back on text.
So, I cannot begin to describe the trepidation with which I present,
DSOF #24: EXPOSITION. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof24.html)
It's Friday, it's a comic. I'm starting to like this trend, but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to keep it up forever.
Comments and feedback appreciated.
[EDIT] Fixed. The link.
He had the hot for her, or uses her for his evil ploy.....
stating the obvious, stating the obvious...
*Face palm* Fixed the link in the above post to correctly go to DSOF 24. Instead of 23. D'oh.
Another line I would have used: "Do you want me to carry your grimoires for you?"
"refurbished"
Other corrections can come later, if you like. ;-]
I do like that whole "I kinda did something for you, if you want..." approach... Not for me, but for entertainment value watching someone else...
Heh, it looks like you have as many troubles with arms as I do. :)
*Sigh* ACTUALLY corrected the link to go to #24 instead of #23, and correctly numbered the strip in the post. Man, I suck at this.
Quote from: Mao Laoren on December 05, 2008, 02:50:28 PM
Heh, it looks like you have as many troubles with arms as I do. :)
Are you referring to anything in particular? I'm satisfied with the way I draw arms.
I mean, it's as flawed as the rest of my drawing skills in general, but wast there something specific?
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 05, 2008, 02:22:09 PM
I do like that whole "I kinda did something for you, if you want..." approach... Not for me, but for entertainment value watching someone else...
I'm always trying to juxtapose the fact that although they're Demons and Incubi and Overlords and stuff, they're still these two young adults doing all that stereotypical relationship stuff (Yeah, I realize how cheezy it'd be if I weren't making a joke. I'm doing my best to avoid inanity here, results dubious).
Fixed the spelling, BTW.
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/profiles/grastille.jpg) |
No new DSOF; broke my streak. It'll probably go up tomorrow.
I've been occupied by a lot of work I want to do for the comic, especially a proper website for it. Archive, front page, real character profile pages, the whole bit. I got caught up in all that mess and the deadline sneaked up on me.
Anyway... Got a pic of Grastillé that I'll be using for his profile.
I had fun designing the sword.
Anyway, critiques and comments appreciated. And I'm still wondering what you meant about the arms, Mao.
[Edit] Cut down the post. I talk too much. |
Here's the thing, Foxy. This is your thread. You're allowed to talk here. ;-]
The sword design is nice. It may be part of the design so I don't know if this is valid, but the blade of the sword doesn't appear to be even with the hilt. Other than that he looks good to me. :januscat
The sword looks a little crooked if you ask me. Other than that, it's all good.
Here's a suggestion - while your shading is better than mine, you might consider adding some texture to the blade. What I usually do on metallic surfaces is mask the metal, and then overbrush it with an alternating pattern of dodge and burn. It gives you an effect like the blade in this:
http://tapewolf.deviantart.com/art/Armoured-Doberman-guy-98978505
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 09, 2008, 09:01:59 AM
Here's the thing, Foxy. This is your thread. You're allowed to talk here. ;-]
Yeah, but I tend to ramble a lot. I'm gonna be starting a blog where I can do that.
Quote from: Lysander on December 09, 2008, 01:06:38 PM
The sword design is nice. It may be part of the design so I don't know if this is valid, but the blade of the sword doesn't appear to be even with the hilt. Other than that he looks good to me. :januscat
Quote from: Tapewolf on December 09, 2008, 03:06:36 PM
The sword looks a little crooked if you ask me. Other than that, it's all good.
Huh. The grip is a little off, but the cross guard is really bent. I'll have to fix that.
That right there is exactly what feedback is for. A second set of eyes to take an objective look at the work, and point out something I didn't notice. You don't really have to be a good artist to give feedback, just observant.
The sword, btw, is pretty much a flamerge. The main difference is the brass section between the lug and the cross guard, and the blade being only partially serrated. I looked up swords, after I designed it, and I was kinda surprised at how similar in concept it was to a real weapon.
Quote from: Tapewolf on December 09, 2008, 03:06:36 PM
...you might consider adding some texture to the blade.
I've got a book somewhere that talks about realistic metal highlights and reflections... I should dig it up.
And, finally, it's up. I was supposed to get it done this afternoon, but I had some guests show up earlier then they were expected.
DSOF #25: Now with pants! (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof25.html)
Finally put some clothes on Jade. She's been running around naked since #11. I was going to put some clothes on her when she was cooling off in Theo's room, but then I realized she'd just incinerate them on page 21. And on page 22.
I was conflicted about Jade's nudity. I mean, I don't want to draw porn. I mean, if you draw porn you end up not drawing anything else. On the other hand, I'm a little more mature then to giggle over booo-bies. I can draw a naked female in all seriousness. In the end, I don't think it's pornographic.
Well, panel 3 might be fanservice. A little.
Man, I wanted to draw several ranks of soldiers in panel two, but cutting-and-pasting them just never really looked all that good. Besides, I really like the fortress I did in the background. Nothing fancy or complicated, but I like how it looks.
In the last panel, I cut and edited the conversation right up to the end. I think there was a bubble that should have made it in of Alianarra saying: "He's my son, can you blame me for looking after him?" I'm going to fix that in the morning.
Mmm. Did you want critique of the artwork?
btw, there's an extra . in the last sentence of the last panel.
There's also an extra "your" in the sentence before last. Just thought I'd mention it.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 10, 2008, 03:56:56 AM
Mmm. Did you want critique of the artwork?
Always appreciated.
Quote from: LionHeart on December 10, 2008, 06:19:00 AM
There's also an extra "your" in the sentence before last. Just thought I'd mention it.
*Froth*
I think I forgot to shade Alia's hair in one or two panels.
All in all this is a cool strip, though you might want to think of alternative ways of shading the jeans... they look a little scribbly. It would probably work quite well if it was done in a higher-resolution and scaled down.
DSOF #26: Druids are circuitous. Mages are not. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof26.html)
I'm not happy with the art in this one. It's sloppy and rushed. I always told myself that it's important to not be perfectionist, but this is really pushing it. After the late posting of #25, I didn't have as much time to work on this one as I'd liked. Furthermore, I got cought up, again, in working on the website and one or two other things that soaked up my time.
This page was drawn, inked, and mostly colored in a single day, and it really shows. Today i made myself take the time to slow down and do a half decent job of proofing and touching up the page, but there's problems here that are rooted in the drawing and inking stage that I can't photoshop away. (There are a few problems that I did; I drew Theolonius with bird wings instead of bat, since I hadn't drawn him in a long while, and had to digitally redraw 3/4ths of his head.
However, it's Friday and I've got a comic up. That really means something to me. I always hated the fact that I'd post a few pages for a week or two, and there'd be a month where nothing got done. I'm not just trying to improve my skills as an artist here, but improve my ability to produce in general. Art quality is only part of a comic strip. Professionalism on the part of the author is another part, and presentation is a big part of that. (Another part is Writing; I find good writing can make up for bad art, but bad art will not make up for bad writing) Regular updates and a good looking site are paramount, and although I've been steadily improving my art, and now I feel like I'm making progress on that front. So I feel good.
Besides, 27 is already mostly drawn and it looks a lot better.
Also: I put in something different with this update. I can't really do it properly until I get the new archive up, but the observant may notice it. Let me know if you notice. (Note: This is in addition to the fact that the overall page is a lot smaller now.)
[Edit] As usual, crits and comments are welcome.
[Edit the 2nd] Wow. For once I don't have to tag this NSFW.
Arcmagister? Or Archmagister?
Oh, and I note that in panels 1 and 2, the colours are varying. In the first, the yellow stripes have turned red. in the second, the whole dress is blue...
Other than that, I'm still waiting to see what happens next. So you're at least that far...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 13, 2008, 04:42:48 AM
Arcmagister? Or Archmagister?
That should be Archmagister. *edits profile*
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 13, 2008, 04:42:48 AM
Oh, and I note that in panels 1 and 2, the colours are varying. In the first, the yellow stripes have turned red. in the second, the whole dress is blue...
*Point* (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof09.html) "It's a trait I inherited from my mother."
As for the blue... those are still the lines; the green areas aren't visible from that angle since the stripes aren't flat, they're raised. Well, actually, the green probably should be visible, but as I said I was rushed and couldn't lay it out properly in the time I had.
They change color on page 25 too.
mm. Looking back, yes, that makes sense.
incidentally, I'd expect the "fire" aspect to be ignited outside the clothing, provided the clothing was tight. Loose clothing would be more problematical, but there's no reason you couldn't have either a) fireproof clothing, or b) sufficient control to avoid your shirt...
The fire erupts directly out of her skin (There's specific reasoning why, but that wont show up till muuuch later). Hence, why her spots don't show up till comic 11: her fur gets burnt. I don't play nice with my characters when it comes to superpowers. If you set yourself on fire, your clothes are just not going to
survive.
Option A has been in the plans, plot-wise, for a while now, though.
Ouch.
Ok, I guess that would explain some of it. *wince*
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 14, 2008, 02:11:51 PM
Ouch.
Aw, Jade is a demon. She can take it.
I finally have a finished mockup of the archive page I want to use. Posting here for comments and feedback.
DSOF Archive Page v2.1 beta (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive/archive2.1b.html)
One or two production notes: ninety percent of the graphics were done in 3D and pasted together in Photoshop.
The DSOF logo was done in flash. I came up with it after I went to a calligraphy workshop a while back and they went over Gothic fonts. Here is a larger version I'm going to be using for the main page:
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsoflogo.jpg)
Might thicken the lines.
Have you considered using the Gothic font for the buttons as well? They look a little out of place compared to the logo. I'm also assuming that the buttons aren't supposed to do anything yet...
I thought about it, but gothic is really, really, hard to read. Especially at small sizes. The Gothic is only for the DSOF logo. All the titles and headers for the site will be in Copperplate Gothic, so the buttons shouldn't look out of place when it's all put together.
Hrm. I might be able to find a better match tho. I'll have to check.
(Yeah, the buttons don't do anything yet. This is a final draft for comments before I copy/paste/edit all the pages. I don't have a front page yet either.)
FWIW, you might want to consider "greyed out" buttons, for use when there isn't an option leading in that direction. For example, on the first strip, the "first" link would be greyed out.
That way you don't have the page resizing itself when you have fewer buttons present.
The web page opens and displays, and looks like the gif you had even on an old browser so 'that is a good thing' (tm).
You might try to see how the comic before that looks like in the code, because flipping through the archive it looks extra wide. Make sure it doesn't damage the castle graphics. Those graphics might need some centering for such cases (the bottom looks left-justified by my eye, but it is too close to tell)
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 15, 2008, 03:11:55 PM
FWIW, you might want to consider "greyed out" buttons, for use when there isn't an option leading in that direction.
That... Is a very good point. I'll have to do that.
Quote from: rt on December 15, 2008, 05:04:11 PM
You might try to see how the comic before that looks like in the code, because flipping through the archive it looks extra wide. Make sure it doesn't damage the castle graphics. Those graphics might need some centering for such cases (the bottom looks left-justified by my eye, but it is too close to tell)
I did, actually. The whole page is one huge table (which is centered) with a table (also centered) inside it for the nav bar. Besides, I might be shrinking down the older comics since the text and art are just HUGE.
I'm glad to hear it works on an older browser: that's good to know, thanks.
DSOF #27: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they will talk politics for hours. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/dsof27.html)
Old style archive. Not ready to completely rebuild the archives just yet. That should be done by Monday, and I might have the front page (which will be very compact, nothing fancy) mostly done too. Profile pages, if I'm lucky.
This page finally feels like I'm getting back into the swing of things, especially with the decent coloring instead of the slap-and-dash job the previous two had.
Also, I finally settled on a way to draw bat wings. For a while now I've been fussing about it. I'm using a new method for them, and working out how to do the struts was a pain. I held off drawing them, until I forgot about it, and went into the coloring phase. then I realized that not everything that is there must have a line, and it looks a lot better if the struts are implied with shading. (Another thing I should have picked up from Amber long before now)
As of this comic, almost all of the backstory I need to cover is over and done with, and I can start working forward.
I. Hate. Backstories.
[Edit] Checked the spelling and re uploaded it. Before the llearch came to get me.
[Edit2] Fixed the above link to actually go to page 27. Why do I keep doing that?
You're still pointing to 26 in the URL. Interesting page, though. My one criticism is that now you've switched to a smaller format, the text is becoming hard to read.
Quote from: Tapewolf on December 15, 2008, 05:50:51 PM
You're still pointing to 26 in the URL. Interesting page, though. My one criticism is that now you've switched to a smaller format, the text is becoming hard to read.
1)Fixed that, 2)Glad you're enjoying the show :3 , and 3) and I will
definitly be bumping the text up a few points.
*cough* The last box in the last panel doesn't make much sense anymore....
Yay for half-assed editing. I'll have to tweak that.
[Edit] Which I have.
BAD Maltorius! Stop making the artist look incompetent!
There is a solution to that, you know.
Find someone and ask them to proofread the images before you post them...
BTW, I love the idea of "Applied Social Macro-Politics" - it's such a typically academic weasel-wording. ;-]
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 16, 2008, 04:47:33 PM
Find someone and ask them to proofread the images before you post them...
Good idea.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 16, 2008, 04:47:33 PM
BTW, I love the idea of "Applied Social Macro-Politics" - it's such a typically academic weasel-wording. ;-]
I was hoping that would make someone smile. Kind of like the "Inhuman Resources" sign on Maltorius' door.
Well, no comic today.
However, I can declare my new archives are done. Yay!
http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive/dsof27.html (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive/dsof27.html)
Finally did the thing in #26 done right, too.
The page is 90% 3D graphics cut up and spliced together in photoshop.
I'm going to hold off on 28. The past couple of pages have been uploaded on schedual, but the quality is suffering. On 28 I bit off a little more then I could chew. I could do a hack job and post it, but I really don't want to. I started this comic to get better at cartooning, and if all I post is half assed comics then I'll get better at half assed cartooning.
On to another story, my brother decided to "brush up" on his php. When he was at college, NSCC, they covered it and he promptly forgot about it for... 4 years, about. A couple months back I asked if he could do the PHP for an archive page, and he said he didn't think he could.
Well, on Thursday he went down to a book store and bought a PHP book for refrence. He took my HTML page and PHP'd it in less time then it took to pick out the book. It's pretty slick. All I have to do is upload an image with the correct numbering, and it does the rest. It even figures out the "current comic" for the "Today" link, and grays out buttons automatically. He says he could add in "flavor text" comments with little trouble. There's no database involved, but still.
Unfortunatly, it isn't working on my current webhosting so he put it on the first free host he could find that supported php. I'm not sure I'll start using it until I get it working on my space, but here it is.
http://mechanisto.110mb.com/webcomictest/archives.php
Freaking awesome.
Hrm.
Suggestion: Make the archive show the most recent strip first.
Other than that, I'd be interested in the code, if only to critique it. ;-]
Your first couple of comics aren't showing up. Other than that, pretty sweet ;)
The comics that don't show up have to do with the numbering, namely whether the first 1 to 9 strips are numbered, for example, dsof03.jpg or dsof3.jpg. The images had their file names changed so the bugged code would work, but then he fixed the code. We haven't changed the file names back since.
llearch: http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/phparchive/Archives.php is the url for the page on my hosting, but it downloads a file rather then runs the script. Take a look if you like. Either there's a problem with the hosting, or something isn't implemented correctly. I dunno, maybe the directory has to be named properly or something.
Unless, or course, it works for you but not me and you get the html archive page instead of a php file to download. Then my head will explode.
first two pages of the webcomic test link are broken...I haven't checked for others.
Quote from: Fox NaBan on December 21, 2008, 06:04:59 PM
llearch: http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/phparchive/Archives.php is the url for the page on my hosting, but it downloads a file rather then runs the script. Take a look if you like. Either there's a problem with the hosting, or something isn't implemented correctly. I dunno, maybe the directory has to be named properly or something.
Unless, or course, it works for you but not me and you get the html archive page instead of a php file to download. Then my head will explode.
Sounds like your host doesn't support php.
Talk to your hoster, and ask them. Or find a better hoster - xepher leaps into mind...
Currently, my webhosting is a corner of my dad's space. He's got php on his site, but it wont work on mine. I just have to poke him about it enough.
Anyway,
DSOF #28: Hindsight (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive/dsof28.html)
I like how the fire came out. I'm a lot happier with the inking, too.
I started laying out panels on paper, and i think it works much better. Unfortunatly, I now come to realize that my scanner seems to scan the page out of alignment, as the page ends up being about 5 or ten degrees off kilter. I hope I don't need a new scanner.
Also: Just for giggles. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/gallery/dsof28b.jpg)
Quote from: Fox NaBan on December 22, 2008, 05:55:57 PM
Also: Just for giggles. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/gallery/dsof28b.jpg)
Bweeeheeheehee.
Damn... I been away for a while. I'd tell the whole story behind where I've been, but it'd basically be a twelve hour wangst-fest.
Short version: Fell apart over christmas, got it all back together, now a job that takes up a chunk of my day normally used for art-making. But hey, food and rent are good.
So: DSOF #29: I couldn't think of a good title. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/comics/dsof29.jpg)
This page is crap cuz I've been trying to get back on the ball for weeks now. Well, comments and critiques appreciated anyway.
(PS: My PHP archive page is all effed up. It works now, except that it wont go to page 28 or 29. Conclusion; I am not a programmer and I hate computers.)
I imagine most sane people assumed Real Life happened. But, you're back now and doing okay! So, yay!
On the comic, I get the impression that Theo's mother keeps answering his question without really answering his question. Does she often do this sort of obfuscation? Is Theo ever going to get a straight answer? Was that last bit ("She's a lovely girl," etc.) his straight answer?
Apologies for my inactivity, real life is still happening and has been taking up a lot of my time recently.
Quote from: !KCA on February 12, 2009, 11:17:36 PM
On the comic, I get the impression that Theo's mother keeps answering his question without really answering his question. Does she often do this sort of obfuscation? Is Theo ever going to get a straight answer? Was that last bit ("She's a lovely girl," etc.) his straight answer?
When Theo asks what the verdict is, there are essentially two answers to be had: Her verdict investigating the incident, and her verdict as a mother meeting her sons girlfriend. In that much, that was a straight answer.
However, Alianarra is a druid. And druids can be as
confusing enigmatic and
evasive cryptic as any wizard or shaman. So, yeah, she does that sort of obfuscation all the time. Theo's used to it, though.
And without further ado:
DSOF #30 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=30)
Enjoy. Comments/Critiques appreciated.
I love the perspective in the first panel, her body is positioned so naturally! Well done!
Cool. I'd ask why she looks so different in her dream, but I guess we'll probably find out.
Quote from: Kipiru on March 02, 2009, 01:10:46 AM
I love the perspective in the first panel, her body is positioned so naturally! Well done!
*Fist pump* Woot.I was hoping that'd come off well.
On the same vein, I like how the spots on her leg came out in the second panel.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 02, 2009, 04:41:46 AM
Cool. I'd ask why she looks so different in her dream, but I guess we'll probably find out.
Probably. Or I could be one of those cartoonists that never really resolves major elements of the comic.
Hmm... Tempting.
Coslplay for Animaritime 09 (http://www.animaritime.org/), going on this very weekend.
Rorschach:
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/rorschach_cos_tn.jpg) (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/rorschach_cos2.jpg)
The mask looks bunched up at the neck, but that's just because I have my chin tucked in in this shot. It actually fits pretty well.
I lucked out on a LOT of this outfit. The trench, which has the perfect collar for the outfit, that you can't see at this angle because the lapel is flipped up, was from my brother. The mask (designed by me, sewn by mum) is a gauzey cotton (so I can breathe through it) with an actual rorschach on it, and a small bit of black mesh over the eye (so I can see out of it. Yes, only one eye. I'm half blind). The mesh is nearly invisible, even when you know it's there. I have a second mask that I like better, actually, but I don't have a pic of it just yet. The scarf is made out of the same material as the mask. Gloves and shoes I was lucky enough to have on hand and they're pretty close to the comic, right down to the stitching on the gloves and the square toes. Luckiest of all, my mom found an old pair of pinstripe pants and a fedora belonging to my dad that were just perfect. The fedora was a really expensive hat too, I'm surprised dad let me use it.
This costume was certainly not as hard to put together as, say, a fursuit or a gundam costume, but I was on a short deadline (four days) and and it came out really well. The thing that got me was that not only did I find a trench and a fedora, I found a fedora and a trench that were just right. And the gloves and shoes were just right.
Comments at the con usually go like this:
"Nice outfit."
*Nod*"Thanks."
*blank stare* "Nice voice!"
*Tip of the hat* "Thanks."
One favorite moment I had was when I tipped my hat to someone in vendor room as I passed by.
"Sorry man, there's no way Rorschach would acknowledge me."
"Sure he would." I said. "Bring your pinkies over here and I'll demonstrate."
Lawls ensued.
So, yeah, I'm having all kinds of fun.
Awesome looking costume. It looks just like the graphic novel's character. Great job on it!
Hurm... possibly awesome... must investigate further.
I'll have more/better pics of the costume tomorrow, probably.
DSOF #31: Patching Things Up. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=31)
Still trying to get a handle on font sizes, and what's readable at what page size. Text is kind of cramped this time. Also, speaking of fonts, I FINALLY found that comic font I downloaded, like, months ago. Looks much better.
I'm spending more time on the script these days, too. I'm looking forward to #33.
Also: After reading Watchmen, Sandman: Brief Lives, and Wil Eisners "Comics and Sequential Art" (yes, THAT Wil Eisner) I'm feeling a little more equipped to get better at page layouts, among other things. Again, looking forward to #33.
... I do believe Zinvth does not have that second "i" in it. Unless that font is small enough to make it hard to read and I'm getting confused?
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 09, 2009, 10:59:43 PM
... I do believe Zinvth does not have that second "i" in it. Unless that font is small enough to make it hard to read and I'm getting confused?
aye, it's hard to actually tell what font that is, i think it's Letteromatic, but it could be any of the myriad of clones out there, even comic sans.
also, it's "Picnic" there's no "k" in it.
I should point out, "you always know what cheers me up" is slightly creepy. After all, he can read her mind...
(and I'm enjoying the story, at least. Should have commented on that...)
The font is Anime Ace 2 from Blambot (http://www.blambot.com/). I was dithering endlessly between that and Secret Agent, from the same site.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 09, 2009, 10:59:43 PM
... I do believe Zinvth does not have that second "i" in it. Unless that font is small enough to make it hard to read and I'm getting confused?
(One DMFA search later) Zinvth shows up repeatedly in DMFA, but Zinvith shows up once in Abel's Story. I'm guessing "Zinvth" is the official spelling.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 10, 2009, 08:12:01 AM
I should point out, "you always know what cheers me up" is slightly creepy. After all, he can read her mind...
In the end, I like to think that Theonor has taken the time to pay attention to what makes Jade happy. Whether that means gleaning surface thoughts, sensing emotions, or just watching facial expressions like everyone else has to, it means that he's been attentive to her. Isn't that what counts?
Besides, Jade's comments in the second last panel was to indicate that they've gone through things like this before. Alianarra commented that Jade was temperamental. And they've been going out for almost a decade. Theo's had practice making things up to her.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 10, 2009, 08:12:01 AM
(and I'm enjoying the story, at least. Should have commented on that...)
Thank you! A good story will make up for bad art, but a bad story wont make up for good art. So, as much as I'm dissatisfied with the visuals, I'm very glad you like the story.
I'm just wondering if anyone's found the easter eggs yet.
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 10, 2009, 10:42:20 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 10, 2009, 08:12:01 AM
I should point out, "you always know what cheers me up" is slightly creepy. After all, he can read her mind...
In the end, I like to think that Theonor has taken the time to pay attention to what makes Jade happy. Whether that means gleaning surface thoughts, sensing emotions, or just watching facial expressions like everyone else has to, it means that he's been attentive to her. Isn't that what counts?
Oh, I know that was what you meant. *grin* I'm merely pointing out the alternative reading of it...
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 10, 2009, 10:42:20 PM
I'm just wondering if anyone's found the easter eggs yet.
Hrm. There were easter eggs? Nuts. I should go back and have a look for them...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 11, 2009, 07:01:38 AM
Hrm. There were easter eggs? Nuts. I should go back and have a look for them...
gl&hf. >:3
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 11, 2009, 11:07:38 AM
gl&hf. >:3
Ooo, you evil.
Would you like me to provide spellcheck for the easter egg, too?
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 11, 2009, 11:45:14 AM
Would you like me to provide spellcheck for the easter egg, too?
How about a grammar check?
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 09, 2009, 10:59:43 PM
Unless that font is small enough to make it hard to read and I'm getting confused?
I don't think that's an actual question? :P
I could provide a grammar check for the three easter eggs, if you want.
DSOF #32: This is a good plan! (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=32)
If the eye looks wonky in the fourth panel, it's supposed to.
I need to spend more time on backgrounds. And remember to leave room for sound effects. And I forgot the signs in the second last panel.
Anyway, comments/critiques appreciated.
Third panel, surely?
Oops, looks like someone forgot to ward their lock.
And now, the extremely late,
DSOF #33: Meddle not in the Affairs of Masterminds (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=33)
I bet you remember when I said:
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 09, 2009, 08:56:45 PM
I'm spending more time on the script these days, too. I'm looking forward to #33.
I tried two or three layouts for #33, and I really couldn't get everything I want on one page. So I guess the script will have to wait. Grr.
I'm drawing thumbnails of the page layouts now too. I'm booked up to #38. I'm pretty sure drawing them is becoming an addiction... I just can't stop. :<
I think I'm getting better at shading hair, at least. The backgrounds are still pretty spartan, but after redrafting the page a few times I was pretty well ready to finish the bloody page and move on.
Anyway, comments and critiques appreciated.
looks more like a human tf sequence, but still good.
I simply love the shading in the top right panel- really nice.
What does a regenerating shapeshifter need a glass eye for?
Quote from: !KCA on March 19, 2009, 07:33:09 AM
What does a regenerating shapeshifter need a glass eye for?
I don't think (s)he does. IMHO it was Turnsky's way of describing an artistic glitch in panel 3 of page 32.
I can sympathise - getting eyes to look right is a major PITA for me.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 19, 2009, 07:36:48 AM
Quote from: !KCA on March 19, 2009, 07:33:09 AM
What does a regenerating shapeshifter need a glass eye for?
I don't think (s)he does. IMHO it was Turnsky's way of describing an artistic glitch in panel 3 of page 32.
I can sympathise - getting eyes to look right is a major PITA for me.
I think it's more of a break down than a glitch
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 19, 2009, 07:36:48 AM
Quote from: !KCA on March 19, 2009, 07:33:09 AM
What does a regenerating shapeshifter need a glass eye for?
I don't think (s)he does. IMHO it was Turnsky's way of describing an artistic glitch in panel 3 of page 32.
I can sympathise - getting eyes to look right is a major PITA for me.
i can't, truth be told, it screams impatience to me, sure i've inadvertently done a "crosseyes" before in the past, but not like "Mr Chameleon" there =p
Honestly? Whitefox missed it in sketch, ink, and color.. that's impatience.
also, in the latest?.. note how he missed shading the very first panel.. it's easy to see whitefox is rushing to get these out. quality over quantity is the name of the game, here.. take the time to work on these properly, Whitefox, you'll benefit in the long run if you do.
Quote from: Turnsky on March 19, 2009, 11:25:53 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 19, 2009, 07:36:48 AM
Quote from: !KCA on March 19, 2009, 07:33:09 AM
What does a regenerating shapeshifter need a glass eye for?
I don't think (s)he does. IMHO it was Turnsky's way of describing an artistic glitch in panel 3 of page 32.
I can sympathise - getting eyes to look right is a major PITA for me.
i can't, truth be told, it screams impatience to me, sure i've inadvertently done a "crosseyes" before in the past, but not like "Mr Chameleon" there =p
Honestly? Whitefox missed it in sketch, ink, and color.. that's impatience.
also, in the latest?.. note how he missed shading the very first panel.. it's easy to see whitefox is rushing to get these out. quality over quantity is the name of the game, here.. take the time to work on these properly, Whitefox, you'll benefit in the long run if you do.
I would like to note one or two things. Shading is usually the stage where I"m pinching the bridge of my nose, gritting my teeth in frustration, the comic is overdue and I want to post the damn thing and be done with it. So, yeah, it's usually the first thing to get rushed. At the same time, I"m kind of attached to sticking to a schedule. That's very important to me, and I think a major part of being professional about comics. Still... you're right. I'm going to cut back to posting once a week instead of twice, unless by some miracle I produce enough to get a backlog of strips.
However... The "glass eye" was deliberate. Pg. 32, panel 3, was specifically meant to clearly show that. It looks off in panel 4 because in my original page concept both eyes were going to be visible, one of which was supposed to be "off". Instead, only one eye is visible from the angle I drew it at, and by itself it looks funny. It's actually a major plot point, and a significant element to Felix's character.
I am not very good with inking, either. Really. I'm using Micron Pens instead of steel tip ones, and they're very different. Easier, yeah, but I don't like the results as much. As well, ay hands get shakey halfway through a page sometimes, and even under the best of conditions, well, I'm a very sketchy artist in general. Plus, as a diabetic, I get arthritis sometimes if I don't take care of myself.
So, Tape is right. I am being pretty impatient. I need to put more effort into the inks, and my shading is downright sloppy. But I just want it to be known, for the sake of those following the story, that the eye was
not a mistake.
Turnsky, thank you for your comments. I really mean that, this kind of feedback is important to me.
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 19, 2009, 11:46:45 AM
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 18, 2009, 08:49:13 PM
looks more like a human tf sequence, but still good.
Uh, sorry, but... I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain?
Well.. It goes a something like this..
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh158/Alteisentier/dsof33.jpg?t=1237479067)
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 19, 2009, 11:46:45 AM
I'm using Micron Pens instead of steel tip ones, and they're very different. Easier, yeah, but I don't like the results as much. As well, ay hands get shakey halfway through a page sometimes, and even under the best of conditions, well, I'm a very sketchy artist in general. Plus, as a diabetic, I get arthritis sometimes if I don't take care of myself.
it is a poor tradesman that blames his tools, i have a benign tremor in my hands (i.e, my hands shake a little even if i'm trying to hold them still) and whenever i've done standard inking, i've used felt tips like the microns, for years, even.
Steel tip technical pens will not improve how you draw, AT ALL. I've heard this excuse used for acquisition of a tablet, you just need to work out decent line control, that's all.. Patience is key, as i've said before, you don't wanna turn out like that git who draws 'antihero for hire', right?
I'm not blaming my tools. I'm flat out saying I'm not very good with them. I suck. At inks.
I find the microns easier to use because there's less fuss. You don't have to keep them clean, you don't have to reload-and-dab (Or the alternative load from a brush) them constantly. But I find that you have to keep a minimum amount of pressure or they wont flow at all, and I usually end up holdingh them with a white knuckled vice grip. It's a habit I'm finding very hard to break. Also, I hate having to switch between three different pens. (A .45mm, a .1mm, and a 1mm for panels)
I like the steel tip pens because I can get a better control over the line weight depending on how much pressure you use. You can get sharp, tapering lines that are great for things like hair, or muscle definition. Not to mention, they're cheaper. I bought a bottle of india ink two years ago, and it hasn't run out yet. For the same price, I could have gotten two microns. New nibs are 1.60 apiece, while microns are 3.50 each (Canadian).
My dificulties in inking, however, don't change depending on the tools. Either way, I have times where I have to redraw lines three times, which get taken out in digital. Fine details get screwed up a lot, and I'm never sure what to ink and what not to. Like, hair. I can never decide between just defining the locks in ink, or going all out and shading the strands. Or muscle definition. I can't seem to pick between shadows or hard lines in a lot of cases. As you say, though, it's all a matter of patience and practice. And I'm working on it.
I've chatted with Mark Shallow over IM. It takes him two hours to do a page, start to finish. I definitely have more time to spend on my comics then that.
Lessons learned.
Turnsky, I have to apologize. I'm running my mouth off, explaining my faults, and I sound like I'm making excuses, defending myself, and arguing, when all I need to say is "You're right, thank you."
So... you're right. Thank you.
Alteseintier, your advice is very useful to me. However, I'd appreciate it if you left out the "lol" comments. They really aren't necessary.
So.
DSOF #33, redux. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=33)
The previous version is still online, here. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/comics/dsof33b.jpg)
-Shaded panel one.
-Adjusted the size of Felix's eye in panel two. And, yes, he has a pretty large eye.
-As far as I can make out, the thumbs shouldn't be visible from that angle in panel 1 and 2.
-Panel 4 has much stronger shadows now. The only part of the room that's lit is the desk itself. There shouldn't be any shadows cast from the arms of the couch since the whole couch is in shadow.
-Added content to all the papers visible, and adjusted the placement in panel 4 to make it more consistent. The large one on the ground is a map, hence all the crease marks.
-Added something to panel 4 to avoid an even bigger continuity break.
-Fixed the lighting on Felix in the last two panels: it's coming from directly above and a bit in front of him. (Pot lights in the ceiling.)
I could make more improvements, but not without spending more time on the page then I'd like to. Especially when I'd like to get started on #34. The shadows in panel 5 and 6 are hard edged, and there's a few other tweaks that would be much easier to fix on paper.
BTW: Thanks for the "Ikea lol" comment, Alte. Theo's a college student after all, and I wanted his room to reflect that (E.G., Page 4). The couch is the same one as in page 9, just better drawn. No, the armrests aren't straight. There's no back to the couch to make room for wings.
i'll just answer this one, you've made some good points here. Enough for the "fair 'nuff" box, anywho.
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 19, 2009, 12:53:52 PM
I'm not blaming my tools. I'm flat out saying I'm not very good with them. I suck. At inks.
I find the microns easier to use because there's less fuss. You don't have to keep them clean, you don't have to reload-and-dab (Or the alternative load from a brush) them constantly. But I find that you have to keep a minimum amount of pressure or they wont flow at all, and I usually end up holdingh them with a white knuckled vice grip. It's a habit I'm finding very hard to break. Also, I hate having to switch between three different pens. (A .45mm, a .1mm, and a 1mm for panels)
it just seemed a cop-out when you took what you said at face value 'tis all. Either way, microns are relatively pressure sensitive too (those nibs do flex) you can get some real nice effects out of them, some folks might say "get a brush pen", i'd say "don't" brush pens are a pain, and they fray oh so freaking easily.
You just need to work on your linework, 'tis all.. try taking some time out from getting a comic out, and see what happens when you lavish some attention to the lines, you'll find the more you do that, the faster one gets.
Quote
I like the steel tip pens because I can get a better control over the line weight depending on how much pressure you use. You can get sharp, tapering lines that are great for things like hair, or muscle definition. Not to mention, they're cheaper. I bought a bottle of india ink two years ago, and it hasn't run out yet. For the same price, I could have gotten two microns. New nibs are 1.60 apiece, while microns are 3.50 each (Canadian).
Can't argue with you there, them little beasties are expensive.
Quote
My dificulties in inking, however, don't change depending on the tools. Either way, I have times where I have to redraw lines three times, which get taken out in digital. Fine details get screwed up a lot, and I'm never sure what to ink and what not to. Like, hair. I can never decide between just defining the locks in ink, or going all out and shading the strands. Or muscle definition. I can't seem to pick between shadows or hard lines in a lot of cases. As you say, though, it's all a matter of patience and practice. And I'm working on it.
and that's the main thing, as for hair, defining the locks in ink is better since you can mess around with definition of hair body when it comes to the color/shading stage.
Quote
I've chatted with Mark Shallow over IM. It takes him two hours to do a page, start to finish. I definitely have more time to spend on my comics then that.
ye god, i knew he just crapped them out, but dayum..
also, word to the wise: Thick pen for characters/foreground, thin for distant/background.. you don't wanna make the same mistake i did down the road:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/ffc20071022wip.jpg
varying line width depending on what you're drawing helps, as seen here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/ffc20080811wip.jpg foreground/background elements clearly discernible from eachother.
also: Avoid drawing forests at any given opportunity, they're murder on the hand :U
Quote from: Turnsky on March 19, 2009, 11:19:41 PM
also: Avoid drawing forests at any given opportunity, they're murder on the hand :U
I'm planning a 12-page arc set in a forest. Since the backgrounds on mine are mainly done 'in post' as it were, my plan is to assemble a set of 6-10 basic trees and build up the background that way. It's an experiment which I still need to try - if it sucks I'll have to rethink it.
I've probably asked this before, but Whitefox, out of interest, how long does the colouring stage take on DSOF?
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 20, 2009, 05:20:18 AM
Quote from: Turnsky on March 19, 2009, 11:19:41 PM
also: Avoid drawing forests at any given opportunity, they're murder on the hand :U
I'm planning a 12-page arc set in a forest. Since the backgrounds on mine are mainly done 'in post' as it were, my plan is to assemble a set of 6-10 basic trees and build up the background that way. It's an experiment which I still need to try - if it sucks I'll have to rethink it.
I've probably asked this before, but Whitefox, out of interest, how long does the colouring stage take on DSOF?
Treees (http://www.ariannia.com/2007/07/07062007/) :U
Quote from: Turnsky on March 20, 2009, 05:56:53 AM
Treees (http://www.ariannia.com/2007/07/07062007/) :U
So, you replicated them and tweaked them?
The effect I'm aiming for is something like this:
http://missmab.com/Comics/Abel_43.php
...because my own tree designs all suck and Amber's were easy to reverse-engineer.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 20, 2009, 06:57:31 AM
Quote from: Turnsky on March 20, 2009, 05:56:53 AM
Treees (http://www.ariannia.com/2007/07/07062007/) :U
So, you replicated them and tweaked them?
The effect I'm aiming for is something like this:
http://missmab.com/Comics/Abel_43.php
...because my own tree designs all suck and Amber's were easy to reverse-engineer.
oh no.
i hand inked & shaded every single one of those trees.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/ffc20070706wip2.jpg
well, as hand-inked as a wacom tablet can get.
Quote from: Turnsky on March 20, 2009, 07:56:05 AM
oh no.
i hand inked & shaded every single one of those trees.
Ah, I wasn't entirely sure. I was going to say, "If they're replicated you did a great job of altering them". In the shading I can see a lot of similar patterns, but I guess that's because they're the same kind of shape >:3
EDIT:
One glitch with yours is that it seems to have both a full covering in the treetops and grass. That doesn't usually happen unless you're in some kind of clearing, which doesn't seem to be the case. Though of course the flora might be different on that world.
Might be a bit early in the year, but I should probably head up the mountain and study the forest floor again.
EDIT EDIT:
Maybe we should give WF his topic back too :P
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 20, 2009, 07:58:37 AM
EDIT EDIT:
Maybe we should give WF his topic back too :P
Are you kidding? This is all gold. I wish I had conversations like this all week long.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 20, 2009, 05:20:18 AM
I've probably asked this before, but Whitefox, out of interest, how long does the colouring stage take on DSOF?
The process goes like this:
-Block color fill. Magic Wand every shape on the page that's the same color, and Fill. This takes about ten minutes at most.
-Shading/highlighting. Usually with a large brush to paint in large areas swiftly, and a small brush to do details like facial shadows. I use the lasoo tool when I need a clean edge, like eye highlights. This stage can go very quickly too, unless I'm pushing the quality. A page can take from half an hour to 4 hours.
-SFX. Especially fire, which involves laying down color and blending it with the smudge tool. Most of this is similar to the shading/highlighting. This can take anywhere from 10 mins to an hour, depending on how good I want it to look and how much practice I have doing it. I usually like to take as much time as I need to make the fx look good.
If I'm not too fussy and not pushing myself, I can get the whole thing done in about 1hr, 20 mins.
Trying new techniques, however, can add four or five hours of work. Sometimes I have to abandon the attempt, and cop out, like the magic effects in Page 21, panels 3 and 4 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=21). Sometimes the outcome isn't ideal, like when I tried a new way to line and color Aliannara's knotwork, in Page 29, panel 4 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=29).
Quote from: Turnsky on March 19, 2009, 11:19:41 PM
Quote
I've chatted with Mark Shallow over IM. It takes him two hours to do a page, start to finish. I definitely have more time to spend on my comics then that.
ye god, i knew he just crapped them out, but dayum..
Bearing in mind, that was when he was drawing Adventurers! It might be different now, but I'm inclined to think he's just more familiar with his tools now, rather then taking more time.
I do like AFH and Adv! (I RP'd on the Adv! boards for a while) for some things. The writing, story, and characters are pretty good, and I'm willing let art quality slide (Good story can make up for bad art, but good art can't make up for bad story).
In the end, I don't have a problem with people who take it easy. But anything worth doing is worth doing well, and the only way to learn is to push yourself. Anything less is complacency.
Quote from: Turnsky on March 19, 2009, 11:19:41 PM
also, word to the wise: Thick pen for characters/foreground, thin for distant/background.. you don't wanna make the same mistake i did down the road:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/ffc20071022wip.jpg
varying line width depending on what you're drawing helps, as seen here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/ffc20080811wip.jpg foreground/background elements clearly discernible from eachother.
also: Avoid drawing forests at any given opportunity, they're murder on the hand :U
Actually, Theo's next lair is taking place in a forrest. I'm doomed.
Line weight is very significant for readability and depth cuing. Readability being how easy it is for some one to tell what's on the page (EG: This page (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/ffc20071022wip.jpg) having poor readability), and depth cuing being anything that tells the viewer how far away something is.
I pay more attention to saturation to do both. If the BG colors are desaturated, it looks farther away and the characters stand out more. As it is, I use light lines for details and heavy lines for outlines. I should start using lighter lines for B.G.s too.
I know I can sound a bit arrogant when I start getting into technical stuff about art... Both my parents are artists, and I grew up with all this. Still... just because I
know about it doesn't mean I can
do it. Which is why I'm better at critiquing art then making it.
(By the way, I find the word "critique" is misunderstood. People usually think a critiques are harsh, but really they're just very, very, impartial. And technical. And thorough. Which is why, these days, I send a PM to people before I post comments.)
I did a whole bunch of knotwork to practice with inks. I'm probably going to make them part of my warm-up exercises from now on. As a note, an "interlacing" is anywhere one path crosses over another. Also, I use "path" to describe the knot's path to avoid confusion between the lines of the knot, and the ink line itself.
A lot of these are a little messed up because I didn't want to spend
too much time on the layout stages of drawing the knot. These are done as an exercises in inking, after all.
Quatrefoil (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/inkknot01.jpg)
.01 Micron Pen. Actual size: 2.5 cm square.
This one is kind of messed up. Two or three spots where I had to go back over the line.
Circular panel (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/inkknot01.jpg)
.50 Micron Pen. Actual size: 5 cm square.
This one is really messed up. One spot where I goofed up on the interlacing, and many places where I didn't take enough time with the previous stages (spots where I've circled the entire interlacing). The lowest circled interlace looks bent: that's because I goofed on the previous stage. There're many places where I got sloppy with the inking, especially where the path that goes under another path gets drawn over the lines (the spots where I've circled only part of the interlacing). After this one, I started skipping the third step, which at times can give better results.
Trefoil (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/inkknot03.jpg)
.01 Micron pen. Actual size: 2.5 cm wide.
I got really careful with the pen this time. The interlacings look much better, but the width of the path varies quite a bit. Consistent path width is very important for a good looking knot.
3 Trefoil Panel (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/inkknot04.jpg)
.01 Micron. Actual size: 2.5 cm at the widest.
This one looks really wonky because I rushed the first stage of the knot. I think I did a much better job on the inking this time around, though.
4 Trefoil Panel (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/inkknot05.jpg)
Dip pen, 102 Hunt Nib. Actual size: 2.5 cm at widest
Had to get used to dip pens again, I hadn't used them in a while. Quite a few spots where the linen goes wiggley, and a lot of lines got drawn over the interlaces.
2X3 Panels (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/inkknot06.jpg)
Left: Dip pen, 102 Hunt Nib. Actual size: 1.8cm x 1cm
Right: .01 Micron. Actual size: 1.5cm x 0.8cm
Side by side comparison. I think the left one came out much better, and the fact that the right one is smaller doesn't make much difference.
I'm going to have to finish the tutorial I was working on for these. They're too much fun.
In the end, I think I like the dip pen much better. It doesn't require much pressure at all to get the ink to flow, and keeping my grip light keeps my lines smoother, gives me better control, and doesn't cramp up my wrist after 3 minutes. I don't mind taking the time cleaning the nibs takes.
Probably the best thing I learned from this is to
change the position of my wrist so I can
see where the bloody heck the pen is going. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/diagram/pendirection.jpg)
Duh. :B
Most of the places where lines got over drawn, or I set the pen on the wrong spot was because my thumb was blocking my view.
Anyway, comments and suggestions appreciated. If anyone knows any good exercises or tutorials for improving inking, I'm all ears.
Well, eyes. Since I'm reading this.
You know what I mean.
Your link for the circular panel is wrong - you didn't update it from 01 to 02...
Other than that, I'm watching, but I have no comments...
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 20, 2009, 08:19:19 PM
*holy text, batman!*
with tapering lines, it's always cool to have the line thicken the closer it is, and taper as it goes further away, this especially looks good with rounded things, and gives off depth..
as for foxfire, i can spend about 2-5 hours on the sketch alone.. this may be because i also 'script' the comic on the fly, but really, even if i had a script, there are moments where it's just hard to express it properly.. i dedicate a day if need be to the inks, only because in the past I've had compliments on how foxfire can stand on its own based on flat coloring alone, i like to give the inks the attention they deserve..
ideally you'd wanna dedicate at least 3-4 hours for a reasonable page, we all like to get it done quick, but sometimes "patience is a virtue" rings true in most regards.
In total, DSOF takes about 2 hrs for panels and pencils; 1.5 for inks; 40 mins for scanning, panels, header, text, and cleanup, and 2 hours for coloring and shading.
Of course, every minute I rush on the pencils adds two to the inking. Every minute on the inks I shave off adds two to coloring and cleanup. And in the end, everything ends up shoddy.
I'm repeating myself now, tho.
My web-comic can take as much as 5 hours over the course of three days to draw. One hour to ink. and 3-5 hours to color.
On page 32, the only indication that your character had hair was illustrated only in the 4th panel making him appear hairless before trans-morphing or whatever into a harrier gray thing before leaving the room.
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 21, 2009, 09:27:31 PM
In total, DSOF takes about 2 hrs for panels and pencils; 1.5 for inks; 40 mins for scanning, panels, header, text, and cleanup, and 2 hours for coloring and shading.
Of course, every minute I rush on the pencils adds two to the inking. Every minute on the inks I shave off adds two to coloring and cleanup. And in the end, everything ends up shoddy.
I'm repeating myself now, tho.
oooh, i see how you do it now.
you sketch each panel in sequence, with graphite, on separate pages..
you then ink over them, erasing afterwards..
after which you scan, organise them into the one file, cleanup, then color.
Quote from: Turnsky on March 22, 2009, 02:00:35 AM
oooh, i see how you do it now.
you sketch each panel in sequence, with graphite, on separate pages..
you then ink over them, erasing afterwards..
after which you scan, organise them into the one file, cleanup, then color.
No... it's all on one sheet of paper.
Involuntary hiatus over.
DSOF #34 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=34)
Considerable delay caused mostly by real life, and trying to get better with Photoshop.
Rather then going into details, I'll just say I wish I'd done everything better and leave it at that.
Theo's got some interesting stuff...a marriage picture? That's very interesting...
Also; six more comics and you can apply for your own subforum!
I'm a little confused by the last panel. Is (s)he photostatting the picture or something?
Quote from: Tapewolf on April 12, 2009, 08:49:13 AM
I'm a little confused by the last panel. Is (s)he photostatting the picture or something?
Second last panel, Felix is looking despondent and forlorn.
Last panel, he's turning off whatever it was he turned on in the last panel of #33. More on that thingamajig later.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on April 11, 2009, 10:16:57 PM
Theo's got some interesting stuff...a marriage picture? That's very interesting...
If you think that's interesting, you must love the comment Felix makes in the last panel.
(If you don't see a comment in the last panel, it's because you're not looking hard enough.
>:3 {bwa ha-ha- ha haa... )
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on April 11, 2009, 10:16:57 PM
Also; six more comics and you can apply for your own subforum!
Oh, yes. I've had that thought bubbling in the back of my head for a fair while now.
[EDIT] Changed the thread title. D'oh.
New comic. Yay.
DSOF #35: His Remories Recall Him. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=35)
I'm proud of the fact that I took the time to polish things a bit, instead of posting on Friday. Course, I'm not too happy about the piles of suck all over everything that I couldn't get rid of. I think the colors really killed me on this one: The Guy in panel 4/5/6 blends in too closely with the background, and Theo's head has always looked off (The entire rest of his body is an entirely different saturation and shade). Also, I seem to have lost any ability to render fire I had (which is a shame, as I really liked the look I got in #22). I'm halfway ready to give up on doing the line work on paper entirely, but I'm still clinging to that one.
On the other hand, I thought the comic title was pretty clever.
Within the next couple of strips, I'm probably going to work out some character design revisions. Partially because I've learned a few things (EG: the color of Theo's head and Jade's horns make it difficult to make a background that contrasts well with the character) and because I never like the concept that characters appearances never change.
Also, it used to bug me that it seemed like I was jumping back and forth between Jade/Theo and Felix. Then it occurred to me that doing that emphasized that these events were happening simultaneously. I think it helps with the tension, too.
Aside from all that, comments and critiques appreciated. I already know what I have to say about it, I'd kind of appreciate a second opinion.
[Edit] Holy Cannoli, I just saw the comic on my brothers PC. It looks compltely different. Especially the green on the ground in panel one: On my monitor, it's barely visible, and on his it stands out like a sore green thumb. Dammit.
*Glances up* Man, I have to stop posting when I'm tired.
Anyway.
DSOF #36: If you keep doing that, it'll stick like that. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=36)
The inking for this page was done entirely in Photoshop. *Sigh* After all that fuss with learning ink...
I love working on paper, I love pencils, and I love ink. I really love ink. But it just so happens that I really suck with ink. So, until I get better with it, I'm going to have to ink in digital. Blarg.
Ah, an inter-clan squabble.
Quote from: WhiteFox on April 23, 2009, 09:29:52 PM
*Glances up* Man, I have to stop posting when I'm tired.
Anyway.
DSOF #36: If you keep doing that, it'll stick like that. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=36)
The inking for this page was done entirely in Photoshop. *Sigh* After all that fuss with learning ink...
I love working on paper, I love pencils, and I love ink. I really love ink. But it just so happens that I really suck with ink. So, until I get better with it, I'm going to have to ink in digital. Blarg.
Again, main bone of contention, is that it really shows that you've rushed this.. i've seen your reasons above "i suck at inks" and so forth, but truth be told, you only suck because you haven't put the patience into doing the inks -properly- and instead rushed to a deadline, in all honestly, you really oughta try taking a little longer to complete each page, even to the point of 'getting it done when it's done', it may stick in the craw somewhat, but in the end you'll release a better product.
Quote from: Tapewolf on April 24, 2009, 04:37:03 AM
Ah, an inter-clan squabble.
Not unless Beings have clans too, all of a sudden.
Quote from: WhiteFox on April 24, 2009, 02:53:26 PM
Not unless Beings have clans too, all of a sudden.
He's holding a book which seems to have a 'Cubi clan symbol on it, as per Amber's note about 'Cubi literature. He has what appears to be black tattoos on his face, and in the penultimate panel, wings.
Now that I reread it, it looks like you're implying that Theo has morphed into him for some reason.
Quote from: Tapewolf on April 24, 2009, 03:33:20 PM
Now that I reread it, it looks like you're implying that Theo has morphed into him for some reason.
Bingo.
I'd explain a few other things, but that'd ruin the surprise. #37 has a few answers, tho.
been sifting around for a little bit, if you have a tablet (i forget whether you do or not), this may be of use to you.
http://www.farlowstudios.com/content/view/14/28/
also, the trick is to work big, 300dpi or so, your standard pages (or anybody's standard for that matter) sits at 72 dpi, if you wanna know what size your comic workspace oughta be(hint: mine's at 2503px × 3294px), a neat trick is to open up a published page in any image editor, and change the image size up to 300dpi, this has the added benefit of helping hide those hand tremors you seem to be so self conscious about, too.
Quote from: Turnsky on April 26, 2009, 07:41:35 AM
also, the trick is to work big, 300dpi or so, your standard pages (or anybody's standard for that matter) sits at 72 dpi, if you wanna know what size your comic workspace oughta be(hint: mine's at 2503px × 3294px), a neat trick is to open up a published page in any image editor, and change the image size up to 300dpi, this has the added benefit of helping hide those hand tremors you seem to be so self conscious about, too.
You told me about that about a year ago, in chat. :3 I scan the image at 9x7 in, 300 DPI, to begin with, then reduce it to 25%, or 75dpi. That's close enough to 72dpi that the page comes out looking right.
I do have a tablet: an Intous3 6x8 that I got for a great price.
(I have one of the pen buttons set to bring up the brush window, while the other switches the foreground/background colors. It's very slick.)
As for the pen tool, well... I bought a tablet so I wouldn't have to work with vectors (Pressure sensitivity. Yum). I wont deny it gets great results, but I just don't like working with it.
Quote from: WhiteFox on April 26, 2009, 03:13:50 PM
You told me about that about a year ago, in chat. :3 I scan the image at 9x7 in, 300 DPI, to begin with, then reduce it to 25%, or 75dpi. That's close enough to 72dpi that the page comes out looking right.
Before or after you work on it?
As I understand it, reducing it should be the very last thing - or almost the last thing; you may put text on it afterwards, if the scaling messes with the antialiasing...
Actually, scaling down is the DEAD last thing I do. It took me a while to figure out that I should Save As the file as a .jpg BEFORE scaling it down. Photoshop would anti-alias all the layers individually, and the color and ink layers would be slightly mismatched. White jaggies would appear on the edges of the lines, since I rarely colored under the ink lines. Flattening the layers (or saving as a .jpg), before scaling down fixed this.
Sometimes I'll save the file as a .jpg, but forget to scale the comic down before uploading it. :B Then I get to watch my browser choke when I see how it looks online.
Quote from: Turnsky on April 24, 2009, 05:15:48 AM
Again, main bone of contention, is that it really shows that you've rushed this.. i've seen your reasons above "i suck at inks" and so forth, but truth be told, you only suck because you haven't put the patience into doing the inks -properly- and instead rushed to a deadline, in all honestly, you really oughta try taking a little longer to complete each page, even to the point of 'getting it done when it's done', it may stick in the craw somewhat, but in the end you'll release a better product.
I didn't notice this post for some reason: probably because it's the first post on this page.
The top half of the comic was specifically drawn to look... fluid. Indistinct, sorta. It could have been done better, but it was my first attempt at drawing such a thing. I'm going to assume that's not the part of the page you're addressing.
There are a few spots with problems, but most of these are my inability to figure out how to draw certain things: Mr. Anonymous' sideburns, for example. However, I think this page is a significant improvement over previous attempts.
I am also well aware that certain previous faults do not go away depending on the medium. Slowing down is still a concern that I am trying to put my foot down on, but it's a habit that's dying hard. If there are any particular areas that seem substandard, it would be helpful to me if you were to point them out.
Plus, I just noticed that Theo's shirt isn't shaded in the second panel. Crap.
Quote from: WhiteFox on April 26, 2009, 08:40:05 PM
Actually, scaling down is the DEAD last thing I do. It took me a while to figure out that I should Save As the file as a .jpg BEFORE scaling it down.
Oh, that made me cringe. JPEG should be your final output format, not an intermediate file. Remember, JPEG has generation loss and it's not designed to work with lineart anyway (the damage is more apparent with lines). Each time you do a load/save cycle in that format you're damaging the picture.
While it's probably not going to be that noticeable with the subsequent reduction, it's a bad habit. Better to save it as PNG and only convert to JPEG as the absolute final step.
Better to save it as .png and keep it that way. :U
Quote from: Arcalane on April 27, 2009, 04:54:45 AM
Better to save it as .png and keep it that way. :U
Well, yes. I'm assuming he's got very limited server space or bandwidth or something.
Quote from: Tapewolf on April 27, 2009, 04:19:42 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on April 26, 2009, 08:40:05 PM
Actually, scaling down is the DEAD last thing I do. It took me a while to figure out that I should Save As the file as a .jpg BEFORE scaling it down.
Oh, that made me cringe. JPEG should be your final output format, not an intermediate file. Remember, JPEG has generation loss and it's not designed to work with lineart anyway (the damage is more apparent with lines). Each time you do a load/save cycle in that format you're damaging the picture.
While it's probably not going to be that noticeable with the subsequent reduction, it's a bad habit. Better to save it as PNG and only convert to JPEG as the absolute final step.
PNG would be a more viable option, but if you're going the filesize war here, 75-80% compression on a JPEG, the lossiness is barely perceptible, it's there, mind, but normal eyes can't see it all that much. also this tends to foil some thieves as it also gives diminishing returns. >:3
i've been considering going over to PNG for the longest time, but eh, old habits die hard.
Quote from: Tapewolf on April 27, 2009, 04:56:01 AM
Quote from: Arcalane on April 27, 2009, 04:54:45 AM
Better to save it as .png and keep it that way. :U
Well, yes. I'm assuming he's got very limited server space or bandwidth or something.
That must be a tiny amount of server space, seeing as I can get a fairly 'noisy' 1024x768 screenshot from Sword of the Stars into a less-than-100kb png. :)
Oh well, at least they're not bmps.
Quote from: Turnsky on April 27, 2009, 04:57:24 AM
i've been considering going over to PNG for the longest time, but eh, old habits die hard.
That would be nice if you do. An interesting tool I've recently been playing with is OptiPNG, which recompresses them by trying a variety of different strategies in the DeflateX stage. It is very computationally expensive, but it often shaves off 10-25% of the Project Future images with no loss in quality.
Quote from: Tapewolf on April 27, 2009, 05:04:48 AM
Quote from: Turnsky on April 27, 2009, 04:57:24 AM
i've been considering going over to PNG for the longest time, but eh, old habits die hard.
That would be nice if you do. An interesting tool I've recently been playing with is OptiPNG, which recompresses them by trying a variety of different strategies in the DeflateX stage. It is very computationally expensive, but it often shaves off 10-25% of the Project Future images with no loss in quality.
i'm taking into consideration that not everybody has high-speed broadband just yet.. and for the most part i've been keeping each page at around 250k, if i can switch over to PNG with little or no impact to that, all the better.
I started out using .png, but switched over to .jpg. All the colors would lighten a little when I used .png, and it drove me nuts.
I've never seen a significant drop in quality when I convert to .jpg and reduce to 25%. I could Flatten Layers, reduce, and then convert to jpg. That would solve the white-jaggie problem, and avoid data loss.
Quote from: WhiteFox on April 27, 2009, 12:19:20 PM
I started out using .png, but switched over to .jpg. All the colors would lighten a little when I used .png, and it drove me nuts.
I've never heard of that. Either the PNG codec you're using is buggy or you're doing something very weird there.
Offhand I can think of a few possibilities:
1. IIRC it is possible to set the gamma correction level within the PNG file. If you've accidentally set it to something strange and you've found some software that actually honours that setting, that might do it.
2. If you're saving it as an 8bpp file instead of 24bpp it will mess up the colours.
3. If you've editing the whole comic in CYMK format that could do interesting things when you convert the colours.
4. If you've somehow given it a translucent alpha layer that might do it.
Actually, I'd be interested if you could do that, just to humour me - doodle something and save the file in both formats. I've had numerous problems with the way JPEG works, but I've never seen a PNG file go wrong.
(Ruffles through old files)
Here's DSOF #3 as a jpg:
http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/gallery/03.jpg
Here's DSOF #3 as a png:
http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/phparchive/comics/dsof3.jpg
It's only a slight shift on my monitor, but the .png is definitly a shade lighter then the .jpg. There's a good chance I was using CMYK back then, and I may have set it to 8bpp. I compared the images in a few different applications, and every time there was a slight shift, so I don't think it's the correction level.
Next time I publish, I'll poke at the settings.
Geh. If I switch back to .png, I'll have to re-upload all the pages and get my brother to tweak the archive script. Not looking forward to that. At least I kept all the .psd files.
Heh.
Both of those are jpg.
the first one is 404, though, and present as a png...
Quote from: WhiteFox on April 27, 2009, 07:08:57 PM
It's only a slight shift on my monitor, but the .png is definitly a shade lighter then the .jpg. There's a good chance I was using CMYK back then, and I may have set it to 8bpp. I compared the images in a few different applications, and every time there was a slight shift, so I don't think it's the correction level.
That is bizarre. They're both 24bpp, no alpha channel and no correction that I can find. PNG is lossless, using the same compression algorithm as ZIP files. If I bought Photoshop and it did that kind of damage, Adobe would find it returned very quickly as not-fit-for-purpose.
Quote from: Tapewolf on April 28, 2009, 04:06:02 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on April 27, 2009, 07:08:57 PM
It's only a slight shift on my monitor, but the .png is definitly a shade lighter then the .jpg. There's a good chance I was using CMYK back then, and I may have set it to 8bpp. I compared the images in a few different applications, and every time there was a slight shift, so I don't think it's the correction level.
That is bizarre. They're both 24bpp, no alpha channel and no correction that I can find. PNG is lossless, using the same compression algorithm as ZIP files. If I bought Photoshop and it did that kind of damage, Adobe would find it returned very quickly as not-fit-for-purpose.
i can honestly say that's never happened to me, there must be some issue with his color settings.
Quote from: Turnsky on April 28, 2009, 05:45:50 AM
i can honestly say that's never happened to me, there must be some issue with his color settings.
All things considered, that's probably the case. PNG is one of the three main graphics formats for the web, so a fault in that shouldn't be able to slip through the net.
I'd say the "working in CMYK" thing. It'd be worth looking into how the png's work now, now that he's working in RGB...
FWIW, getting php tp use png if there's no jpg is trivial; a one-liner, if the code is done well.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on April 28, 2009, 07:27:10 AM
FWIW, getting php tp use png if there's no jpg is trivial; a one-liner, if the code is done well.
Tweaking the code? Ten minutes. If that.
Getting my brother to stop playing CoV, or coding his own games, long enough to do it? Two, three weeks. And he'll ask where are the spaceship sprite graphics I promised him.
Heh. You know, you don't have to use him...
Quote from: Tapewolf on April 28, 2009, 04:06:02 AM
That is bizarre. They're both 24bpp, no alpha channel and no correction that I can find.
Something else for the "bizarre" column — I see the lightening when I view both versions in Firefox, but if I save them locally and open in Irfanview... both apparently identical. Presumably some people here are using Firefox, some IE, and maybe one or two something else? Wonder how this would affect any colour shift...
New comic. Yay.
DSOF#37: More Flashback, and exposition. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=37)
[edit] I should probably mention: NSFW.
Enjoy. Comments and critiques appreciated.
(Jade's wings are missing in the second last panel. I couldn't draw them well enough on the tablet, and reworking the pencils would have been more work then I could take)
If you're wondering why I havn't posted in a month and a half, It's because I:
- Completely revising my shading methods. (Example (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/gallery/jadeshade.png) Also NSFW)
- Relapsed into my videogame addiction by playing EVE for a while.
- Completely revising my shading methods, again.
- I went to Chicago for a week, attended a Wordpress convention and saw family.
- Got cought up in some paying work (which ended up not really paying all that much) for a few days.
In conclusion, real life is a pain, and I'm gonna get back to drawin'.
Second last panel.
Killed people I had kown for years :U
The heretic looks a ... bit deformed in the last panel. :B
Ty: Crap. Made his head too wide.
New comic. Anyone wanna play spot the guest characters?
DSOF #38: Felix's sum-up and break-down. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=38)
Comments and critiques appreciated. If you were cameo'd and you'd rather not have been, please let me know.
[EDIT] New forum avatar too. Bout time I drew my own.
Ooooo! Neat comic! I'll have to read it all when I'm not at work :animesweat
As for the guest... I would guess.. Kipiru :3
*snerk*
Oh, they are actually credited - but I only noticed after making a list :P
We have llearch, Jakob, Kipiru and Basilisk's dog, Duke.
I'm honoured.
Anyway, the only thing which is bugging me slightly is why Fa'Lina allows Theo to be stuffed in lockers. Though I guess if it was significantly beneficial to either of them (building Theo's character, or making Felix stop when (s)he realises that doing that to a senior might be a Bad Thing) that would be enough to make her take a more hands-off approach.
Quote from: Tapewolf on June 27, 2009, 05:18:25 AM
Oh, they are actually credited - but I only noticed after making a list :P
We have llearch, Jakob, Kipiru and Basilisk's dog, Duke.
Oh! So there it is! There I go being unobservant again :animesweat
Quote from: wuffnpuff on June 27, 2009, 06:11:33 AM
Oh! So there it is! There I go being unobservant again :animesweat
My list was wrong anyway - I thought I saw Beever as the lizard guy and I mistook Duke for Pagan's character.
eh. i'm pretty sure the guy in the last pannen on the left is in fact Bas. Judging by the colors, i'd say Whitefox added a little red and yellow, making Bas less natural colored, but the patterns seem about right, and there are credits in the top bar, just above the comic too.
That said, awesome work, i enjoy your style as always Whitefox... and the addition of cameos is always amusing. I haven't seen this mentioned, but llearch is being held by a fox creature (probably cubi) in the first panel, i'm surprised no one has mentioned him, given that he was given credit at the top as well :P
Quote from: Basilisk2150 on June 27, 2009, 08:30:12 AM
eh. i'm pretty sure the guy in the last pannen on the left is in fact Bas.
Ah. I didn't know you'd actually created such a character. llearch has been mentioned a couple of times, though.
Quote from: Tapewolf on June 27, 2009, 08:36:21 AM
Quote from: Basilisk2150 on June 27, 2009, 08:30:12 AM
eh. i'm pretty sure the guy in the last pannen on the left is in fact Bas.
Ah. I didn't know you'd actually created such a character. llearch has been mentioned a couple of times, though.
The first time was by me. ;-]
I'll admit it was a bit obscure, though.
Just so people know, everyone appearing in the comic either have been particularly helpful to me, or are artists whose work I very much enjoy. I wish I had room for more.
Bas's colors are a little more dramatic because demons colourations are a little more... sinister then beings colors.
llearch: +10 pts for observation, and subtlety in posting. Yes, that's boxy with the two blonde foxy succubi.
Strictly speaking, that's not a cameo of Beever. Mostly, I wanted to draw a scaley anthro with an iguana-mohawk, cause I love that look. But I guess I can credit beev for the inspiration. So, cameo in spirit I guess.
As for Felix stuffing Theo into lockers... well, I never said Felix wasn't getting detention for it. There are other elements affecting the situation, however, which might be addressed later in the comic. (*Rereads archive.* Actually, I alluded to it earlier in the strip.)
(BTW: If anyone's worried about whether to call Felix a he or she, "he" or "him" works for now.)
Being away for some time I just saw my cameo- awesome work there WF! Me likes. I'm flattered dude, honestly!
Wow, awesome shading and great work! (btw the word 'awesome' seems to be pretty popular within these comments) :giggle
Don't know about that scaley anthro with an iguana-mohawk cameo you mentioned, but man I've never seen such a steady and fixed green back, up until now.Great motion and big thanks!
Will certainly have a closer look on it in my Day Off.
PS. The Avatar, it's unique!
DSOF 39 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=39)
Quote from: WhiteFox on June 27, 2009, 01:14:09 PM
(BTW: If anyone's worried about whether to call Felix a he or she, "he" or "him" works for now.)
I must be out to sabotage myself.
Delays due to some experimentation with the process: needless to say, I had to take some time cleaning up the aftermath. #40 is still on schedule.
Extremely Geeky trivia:
Felix's clan symbol, displayed for the first time on Zu here, has a few sources. Most notably an Uncial A, and the phoenician Aleph that is it's precursor.
The letter A developed from the Egyptian hieroglyphic of an ox's head.
Theo's clan symbol is described as a "Broken Taurus", and is derived from the zodiac sign. Taurus being the Ox.
I swear all of this is coincidence.
(Also, I may have been reading one two many calligraphy books.)
Quote from: WhiteFox on July 06, 2009, 08:57:21 PM
Felix's clan symbol, displayed for the first time on Zu here, has a few sources. Most notably an Uncial A, and the phoenician Aleph that is it's precursor.
And I thought it was based off the ampersand...
For some reason, I just -love- this particular Warp-Aci. >:3
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 08, 2009, 04:01:55 PM
And I thought it was based off the ampersand...
...
You just had to point that out. Now I'm not going to be able to see anything else.
There's subtle differences, but... aw, who am I kidding. They're subtle.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on July 08, 2009, 04:16:24 PM
For some reason, I just -love- this particular Warp-Aci. >:3
Zu's fun to draw. I need to get a little more diligent about coloring Warp-Aci properly, tho.
Quote from: WhiteFox on July 08, 2009, 08:30:02 PM
...
You just had to point that out. Now I'm not going to be able to see anything else.
Ooops...
Page 40! Whoo! *Confetti*
DSOF #40 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=40)
"Nmemograph" being a word I made up for a recorded memory.
So, I lost the hardcopy for the comic and didn't find it until today. Then I was somewhat alarmed to realize that today happened to be Friday.
I'm kinda proud that I got the page cleaned up and colored in one evening. It didn't any less time then usual (I even made the extra effort to try and color Zu the way Warp-Aci are supposed to look), which was about five hours, but I'm not usually able to do an entire page in one sitting.
heh. Another shot of Felicia with her busted shirt... ;-]
btw, "commit" has two m's in it.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 11, 2009, 05:03:45 AM
btw, "commit" has two m's in it.
Also, there's a word missing in panel 2.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 11, 2009, 05:03:45 AM
btw, "commit" has two m's in it.
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 11, 2009, 07:36:36 AM
Also, there's a word missing in panel 2.
Arrgh... Thanks for pointing that out.
Fixed.
Is Felicia a hermaphrodite or just a gender-confused shape shifter?
Quote from: ChaosMageX on July 15, 2009, 08:21:50 PM
Is Felicia a hermaphrodite or just a gender-confused shape shifter?
Good question.
At this point in the story it's not really know.
DSOF #41 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=41)
Comic done. Finally.
I am... seriously cutting down on excessive cleavage and quasi-nudity in this comic.
Quote from: WhiteFox on July 18, 2009, 12:33:26 AM
I am... seriously cutting down on excessive cleavage and quasi-nudity in this comic.
Just not in this page :mowmeep
Quote from: WhiteFox on July 18, 2009, 12:33:26 AM
I am... seriously cutting down on excessive cleavage and quasi-nudity in this comic.
I'm not hearing any complaining from anywhere... >:3
Quote from: Kipiru on July 18, 2009, 12:40:34 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on July 18, 2009, 12:33:26 AM
I am... seriously cutting down on excessive cleavage and quasi-nudity in this comic.
Just not in this page :mowmeep
This
is the cut down version.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on July 18, 2009, 01:44:02 AM
I'm not hearing any complaining from anywhere... >:3
Well, I'm only cutting down on excessive cleavage.
Two things in I had in mind when I started this comic:
-No PG13 nudity.
-Sometimes, people are naked. It happens, that's life.
But, you know, Jade's been in more comics nude then clothed (8 to 12, or something like that). That's a bit much.
I don't see it as that big a problem, really.
After all, Jade has a legitimate reason to not wear clothing. It's not like it's done purely for the sake of it.
DSOF #42 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=42), at last.
Reasons for delay are legion.
I need to plan my characters colors better... Light-and-dark outfits never work on either light or dark backgrounds.
DSOF #43 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=43)
As a note, the last law of magic on the list is the "Tautological Principal of Ontology". 5 internet bucks for the best guess of what that means.
I'm kind of mixed about this one. There's a lot of... weirdness in the art, but there are some things I really like too.
Comment and critique very much appreciated, as ever.
Didn't notice the last couple of pages appear.
Heh, got a good laugh out of the "not a morning person" bit. Jade looks so cute in a showing-fangs yawn.
And as ever, the explanatory diagrams are fun as well as informative. Theo's dad seems to be just as good as Fa'lina at the "summon big sketchpad" spell...
Figured I ought to repost this here: I'd appreciate feedback on it.
Dekari's CCC Gift:
(Warning: Blood, and some PG13 Nudity)
Page 1 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/tiamat_1.png)
Page 2 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/tiamat_2.png)
Oh, those wacky insane megalomaniacal scientists. Will they ever learn?
(Original post (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,5673.msg291632.html#msg291632))
I was originally going to post #43 and #44 at the same time, since I'd missed an update somewhere (two comics over three weeks). I decided that, after getting #42 up, Dekari's two pages done, and inking and drawing pg. 44 TWICE that It'd be best if I didn't burn myself out. Last two times that happened, I ended up not posting for a month.
Anyway.
DSOF#44: There is a time for exposition, and a time for action. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=44)
Messing around with a new method of shading. Let the record show that I really, really hate cel shading. I always have. If #43 sucked, it was because I just didn't want to do it anymore.
I'd like to cite the following people as inspirational sources:
-Altesentier
-Rhyfe2002
-Adi Granov (Iron Man: Extremis trade paperback)
As well as the tutorials at The Art of Roberto Campus (http://www.robertocampus.com/).
Next time, I'm going to have to try using colors other then black for shadows (probably a darker and more saturated base color) and do more with the backgrounds.
Oh gosh! detaching the book took off a finger?! xD
And that's an interesting new shading you are using, but for some reason, it looks...gritty :/
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on August 14, 2009, 09:57:39 PM
Oh gosh! detaching the book took off a finger?! xD
He shape shifted it, right? It's part of his hand. >:3
Yeah... I'm mean to my characters.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on August 14, 2009, 09:57:39 PM
And that's an interesting new shading you are using, but for some reason, it looks...gritty :/
And I like it like that. There are some elements of the process that I need to work out though (the colored shadows, as mentioned before, as well as highlights, hair, and other obstacles). But the major thing I like about it is that it has more texture then straight up cel shading.
It's just that right now, everything is either fur, or fabric, or too dark to really make an impression.
I just noticed how frowney Theo's face was in panel four... dookie.
<snrk> Nice gag setup.
Agreed about the shading, it does look better and more textured like this. Something odd about Theo in panel 2, though, he seems to be leaning over almost to the point of falling on his muzzle. A perspective effect, maybe?
Quote from: WhiteFox on August 15, 2009, 10:47:46 AM
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on August 14, 2009, 09:57:39 PM
Oh gosh! detaching the book took off a finger?! xD
He shape shifted it, right? It's part of his hand. >:3
According to Amber's layout, it'd be part of his wings - I don't know if you're following that idea, or just somewhere in the same general vicinity of plot.
Not that I'm complaining, mind. The whole "using magic to make the book real" thing would, one expects, work out this way... and it was a lovely surprise...
I liked the gag and the shading is good too. My only complaint is that it seems to make everything darker. Maybe that's part of the idea, though.
Quote from: SpottedKitty on August 15, 2009, 11:01:03 AM
Something odd about Theo in panel 2, though, he seems to be leaning over almost to the point of falling on his muzzle. A perspective effect, maybe?
He's supposed to be slumped over in resignation. In the first version of the comic, it was a matter of slumped shoulders. I think I went a bit far with this one.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on August 15, 2009, 03:18:27 PM
According to Amber's layout, it'd be part of his wings - I don't know if you're following that idea, or just somewhere in the same general vicinity of plot.
In AS2, page 26, the instructor mentions "Fur to Clothes." Likewise, I don't think a 'cubi needs to use their wings to change their appearance, in terms of gender, fur color, or build. It's not much of a stretch to assume that one could form props as easily as clothes, and without the use of their wings.
I don't know if Amber has any cannon material dealing directly with the matter, but that's my reasoning at least.
Of course, there are a few things that threw me off that I didn't realize until it came up in DMFA or AS. I didn't know that long lived races stick in their mid-20s, which means that Theo's parents shouldn't look like they're in their sixties.
Likewise, I didn't realize that Cubi wings were as durable as they were til the climax of the
Return of DP arc... I knew they were suitable for offencive purposes, but I didn't think they would be able to, say, parry swords. Which makes some of Felix's character a bit less comprehensible (Although, the fight scene between Felix and Theo was meant to establish that Felix's use of weapons to fight was foolish in concept anyway. So Felix's character still stands as I intended him.
Some topics I have to outright steer clear of, including: WTH went down between dragons and cubi, what SAIA actually looks like, what Fa'lina would think of Theo's Grand Scheme (which is the entire reason Maltorius exists), and some of the races.
But, you know, that's the perils of running a tribute comic.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on August 15, 2009, 03:18:27 PM
Not that I'm complaining, mind. The whole "using magic to make the book real" thing would, one expects, work out this way... and it was a lovely surprise...
I'm just glad people liked it. After four weeks of no comments, I was getting kind of disheartened.
Quote from: WhiteFox on August 15, 2009, 10:47:46 AM
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on August 14, 2009, 09:57:39 PM
Oh gosh! detaching the book took off a finger?! xD
He shape shifted it, right? It's part of his hand. >:3
Yeah... I'm mean to my characters.
Is that what the law of sympathy entails? It doesn't seem very sympathetic to me. xD
Quote from: ChaosMageX on August 15, 2009, 06:00:14 PM
Is that what the law of sympathy entails? It doesn't seem very sympathetic to me. xD
And that's why I'm an artist instead of an Arcanist. :)
If anyone cares, The Law of Sympathy is as follows: If two things are similar to each other, one can affect one one through the other. Voodoo dolls would be one example. An example from DMFA might include what Hizell did to Siar (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Ab_056.php).
I've got a whole bunch of these rules cobbled together from a variety of sources. I use them whenever I'm running a tabletop game to keep some order to things.
Quote from: WhiteFox on August 15, 2009, 04:24:40 PM
I'm just glad people liked it. After four weeks of no comments, I was getting kind of disheartened.
My apologies, I don't know why at least I wasn't saying anything, I actually quite enjoyed the recent comics.
#42:
I really can't beleive I didn't leave a comment about this one. Jade was very cute in the first few panels; you caught the feline yawn very well, I think (I see my cat yawn all the time). Her sleep-deprived comments are, of course, hilarious xD.
#43:
"Tautological Principal of Ontology"... From 'No Ontological Inertia" on TVtropes (if the creator of something is destroyed, the creation is destroyed as well), I can infer that "Ontological" may have something doing with existance or continuity. "Tautological"... had to look this one up, seems to mean something along repetition or reduncancy, so putting the two together would mean something like "repeated existance" or "redundant continuity"...I'm drawing a blank as to how that could be interpreted as a law of magic :B
I am also noting that all of Theo's fingers are still clearly attached in this comic :/
Anyways, don't get disheartened, man. As said, I have been enjoying this comic very much, and it is quite sad that it hasn't been getting many comments in a few places, and I'm kicking myself for not commenting. However... it is probably obvious that your comic has finally reach 40+ comics and has been online for more than six months...want to try to apply for your very own neat little subforum? ;)
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on August 21, 2009, 10:52:42 PM
Quote from: WhiteFox on August 15, 2009, 04:24:40 PM
I'm just glad people liked it. After four weeks of no comments, I was getting kind of disheartened.
My apologies, I don't know why at least I wasn't saying anything, I actually quite enjoyed the recent comics.
#42:
I really can't beleive I didn't leave a comment about this one. Jade was very cute in the first few panels; you caught the feline yawn very well, I think (I see my cat yawn all the time). Her sleep-deprived comments are, of course, hilarious xD.
I'm better at facial expressions and acting then I am at drawing. :B Guh.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on August 21, 2009, 10:52:42 PM
#43:
"Tautological Principal of Ontology"... From 'No Ontological Inertia" on TVtropes (if the creator of something is destroyed, the creation is destroyed as well), I can infer that "Ontological" may have something doing with existance or continuity. "Tautological"... had to look this one up, seems to mean something along repetition or reduncancy, so putting the two together would mean something like "repeated existance" or "redundant continuity"...I'm drawing a blank as to how that could be interpreted as a law of magic :B
A Tautology is the opposite of an oxymoron: A statement that is self evident. EG: "Nothing succeeds like success." or "Wet water." (An oxymoron being something that is self contradictory: EG, "We had to burn the village to save it" or "Military Intelligence")
The Tautological Principal of Ontology:
-That which exists, exists. (Ontology)
-This principal is
proven by the fact that that which exists exists, even if you can logically prove that it doesn't or can't. (Thus, the principal itself is tautological: it proves itself.)
It's significant because it lets magic users defend the Scientific Method against Metaphysics (How do you know you know? Well, you don't need to know how you know, you just need to know that you do know. Whether or not you know you know, it's still true).
Also useful whenever someone exclaims 'That's impossible!". Of course it's possible. It exists, or (in the case of an improbable event,) it happened.
(What makes this funny to me is that it's a Base Assertion Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare_assertion_fallacy) (I think). But then, I'm incredibly nerdy.)
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on August 21, 2009, 10:52:42 PM
I am also noting that all of Theo's fingers are still clearly attached in this comic :/
In #43, Theonor was still in the shape of the cleric. At that point in time, The book was formed from from his body, and his hand and he still had all his fingers. When the book was separated from his hand, that mass was removed from his body while the rest of his hand retained it's shape.
When he returned to his natural shape, he was still missing that mass. It had to come from somewhere, namely his finger. If there's any real plot hole there, it's that the mass of the hand would have been significantly less then the mass of the book. The book, while attached, could have been very porous, or only a thin shell (I'm assuming there's a conservation of mass related to Cubi's shapeshifting, or they'd all be 9ft tall like Fa'Lina, and they get more mass as they get more powerful, whatever the rules behind are). Once Theolonius enchanted the book, though, it became identical to the original.
Theo could have formed the book from the mass of his wings, but trying to show this in a clear way (That a missing piece of his wing was related to the book being removed) would have been very difficult for me to draw. The way I've shown it was meant to be easier for the reader to understand, since he was holding the book in his hand.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on August 21, 2009, 10:52:42 PM
Anyways, don't get disheartened, man. As said, I have been enjoying this comic very much...
I cannot express how glad I am to hear that. Thank you
very much.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on August 21, 2009, 10:52:42 PM
It is probably obvious that your comic has finally reach 40+ comics and has been online for more than six months...want to try to apply for your very own neat little subforum? ;)
I did.
The mods had some concerns: one or two month long hiatuses that broke my 6 month streak (mostly due to typical artistic-crisis-breakdowns) and the fact that I do not yet have a main page for DSOF... it's in the works.
All of which I agree with, though I was really looking forward to a forum. C'est la vie.
DSOF #45 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=45)
Still experimenting with shading. Ongoing process.
If anyone's wondering why it took me more then a month and a half to finish this page, all I'm going to say is that August was not in the least bit pleasant or comfortable for me.
Things feel back on track, tho. Back to regular updates, I hope.
Comments and critiques appreciated.
I guess that's not the type of comment that you're most interested in, but I can't resist:
That Warp-Aci looks way more humanoid in form than what we're used to...
And good to know that your situation got better, no matter what happened.
//h
Quote from: hapless on September 18, 2009, 08:36:41 PM
I guess that's not the type of comment that you're most interested in, but I can't resist:
That Warp-Aci looks way more humanoid in form than what we're used to...
And good to know that your situation got better, no matter what happened.
//h
By all means, I appreciate the comment.
Short answer:
Warp-Aci appearances are entirely customizable by their owner. Ntpxl is a book, for example.
Long answer:
I can not draw cute things. But I'm okay with that. :)
Cool, I was afraid this had died.
From their expressions and posture in panel 2, I thought they were dancing at first. That would then have made the scene change into some kind of flashback. I got it in the end, though.
I am kind of curious whose Warp-Aci the blue one is, though. For 'Cubi it seems to match the clan colour, and I thought his was yellow. That might just be convention, rather than necessity, mind.
Actually, I didn't think a clan marking was a set colour... Theolonius' mark is yellow, but Theonor's is blue. Wynk is blue since he's Theonors Aci. Of course, since Warp-Aci are customizable (possibly including their color), that might all be moot anyway.
In the first panel, I was really going for a "shall we dance?" kind of pose. I'm glad that much worked. Confusing, though... confusing not good. Thanks for the feedback.
Quote from: WhiteFox on September 19, 2009, 04:46:02 PM
Actually, I didn't think a clan marking was a set colour... Theolonius' mark is yellow, but Theonor's is blue. Wynk is blue since he's Theonors Aci. Of course, since Warp-Aci are customizable (possibly including their color), that might all be moot anyway.
I've lost track of who Theolonius is. No cast page, either... :<
As for the clan marks, I'm not quite sure what you're saying about them being 'a set colour', so I guess I'll describe how it works as best I know.
The clan mark is the same for all members of the clan, that obviously means it will be the same colour for everyone officially in the clan.
Different clans may or may not have different coloured markings to each other.
You can also have a situation where a given 'Cubi's parents are of different clans (the child has the clan mark of the stronger clan). That may mean that Theo's father has a different marking to Theo himself if his mother belonged to the more powerful clan.
With the warp acis, my understanding (which may be wrong) is that they are given a marking as part of the binding ritual. For Angels, Demons, whoever, that might be their family crest or their initials or just some doodle (must find Amber's ref for that and add to wiki).
The colour seems to be set at the point of binding (we have never, ever seen one change except for Fi when it was un-bound from Fa'Lina). So it looks to me like they can change shape, but the colour is locked during the binding and cannot be changed without doing something drastic like banishing them and re-summoning them.
By convention, 'Cubi seem to use their clan marking as the symbol for the binding - and Fa'Lina used Dan's clan when reconfiguring Fi for him. Whether it absolutely has to be their clan mark or whether they just do it to save them the bother of inventing a marking, is something I do not know.
EDIT:
Here we are:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,6163.msg284421.html#msg284421
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 19, 2009, 05:10:49 PM
I've lost track of who Theolonius is. No cast page, either... :<
As for the clan marks, I'm not quite sure what you're saying about them being 'a set colour', so I guess I'll describe how it works as best I know.
Theolonius is Theonor's dad. (Maltorius was calling him 'Loonie.)
Thanks for the info.
The spotted chick seems to have ears that appear and disappear throughout the panels. The horns also seem to change size in the third panel. The thing with the blue headwings either grew in the second panel or is shapeshifting to various sizes. That said his headwings are shifting constantly in color so it's believable. Maybe it's not the same fellow though, as it looks like the fellow in the second panel has a tail. Also, it looks like the wings on the spotted lady keep changing in size with relation to the rest of her, but maybe that's just perspective. The spotted lady also seems to have eye whites in the third panel, but not in the first or fourth.
The shading/coloring on the spotted lady's jeans looks nice. You should apply this to the rest of the clothes.
----------------
Now playing: Yoko Kanno, The Seatbelts - Time To Know (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/yoko+kanno%2c+the+seatbelts/track/time+to+know)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)
Mao: Thanks. I'm really bad for stuff like ears and tails and such... you know, little things like that.
Anyhoo... I finally managed to borrow my parents digital camera, and took some pictures of some of the chain mail work I do.
A few things to note,
- I do not use pre-made rings. All the chainmail you see here started off as spools of wire. The wire is wrapped around a metal rod and wound into coils, like a spring. Then rings are cut off the end of the coil, one at a time, with either wire cutters ("Pinch cuts") or a jewelers saw ("Saw Cuts"). That's right: each ring is hand made.
- Before you mention it, and I get this comment a lot, this work is not armor. It's jewelry. It's not meant to stop a knife or anything like that. I know the process for making medieval, armor grade, chain mail. It's scary.
- In total, the tools for all this cost about 25 bucks, and you can get them at almost any hardware store when you know what and where to look.
- I have made a lot of chain mail in my time, but most of it gets sold or was done on commission. This is my private collection, so to speak.
Bracelet:
Small (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/dblbyz_sterling.jpg)
Large (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/dblbyz_sterling_lg.jpg)
Me ma commissioned this as a present for my grandmother. It's about 4/5ths done.
Material: Sterling Sliver, 22 ga, saw cut links.
Ring count: apx. 250
Handflower 1:
A hand flower, or slave bracelet, is a bracelet connects to a ring on the finger and covers the back of the hand. The first one I made was a little more elaborate, with a loop around the thumb.
Back (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/handback2small.jpg)
Plam (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/handpalmsmall.jpg)
Material: 318 surgical stainless steel, pinch cut.
Ring count: apx. 1020
This was the first handflower I'd made. I still wear it sometimes.
Gauntlet:
After I made the handflower, I went for something more... substantial.
Back
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/gauntlet_2a.jpg)Side (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/gauntlet_2b.jpg)
Palm (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/gauntlet_2c.jpg)
Back, HiRes (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/gauntlet_2a_lg.jpg)
Side, HiRes (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/gauntlet_2b_lg.jpg)
Plam, HiRes (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/chainmail/gauntlet_2c_lg.jpg)
Material: 318 surgical stainless steel, pinch cuts.
Ring count: apx. 1800
It's much more comfortable then it looks; I can make a fist while wearing it without hurting my hand, and it doesn't restrict the fingers at all. It's not really a finished project: the fingertips aren't all done, and the one that is there isn't sized properly (you can see it's a bit loose). I probably won't finnish it, since I had a major face-palm moment over a design issue (another one is in the works). Still, I think it looks cool.
[EDIT: Accidently hit post before I was done. D'oh.]
[EDIT2: More pieces coming later.]
Cute. What's a Plam? ;-]
Do you take requests? What are your rates?
A plam is what I slap against my face when I make a spelling mistake. *Plam*
Prices depend on the piece.
I usually work with steel or copper, and rarely use colored wire. If I use beads, they're usually natural stone. Tigers eye, hematite, jet, etc. I don't mind working with plastic coated wire, for color, on request. I do have some enameled copper wire in a few colors. The number of weaves I know, and their variations, is too long to list here. I'll have to post pics of sample pieces when I can get them.
Most of the work I do is made on commission, or by request. Headdresses, hand flowers, and necklaces should be sized, and bracelets are easy enough to make that I knit them as needed.
Chain mail takes time. I can make a simple byzantine bracelet in 2 hours for 15$, and factoring in material cost I'm almost making minimum wage.
Prices are in Canadian.
7" bracelets, 15-25$
The most common thing I sell. These can vary in design quite a bit, hence the range in price.
Simple handflower, 40$
Single strand around the wrist and two strands going from the wrist to the finger. I've only made one of these for sale. More elaborate ones, like the first one I posted, might cost from 50-60$, depending on the design.
Fine necklaces, 50$
Usually done in 20 ga wire. I don't do very many of these.
Bracers, 30-60$ depending on wire ga.
Covers the wrist to forearm.
Mens Heavy Neck Chains, 35$
Nothing says you mean business like 2 lbs. of 14 ga. steel. Once, I sold one of these to a guy in a KISS tribute band.
Headdresses, 40-50$
These are usually a simple band around the head, and some sort of embellishment on the front. I have a friend that has sold more elaborate ones for 120$ and up.
Earrings and pendants, 5-7.50$
There is such a thing as micro-mail; 28 to 34 ga beading wire, and ring diameters of 0.8 millimeters and less. I've made an inch or two of the stuff, just to try. I might be convinced to do something in micro-mail, but I couldn't reliably estimate the cost of such a thing. Maybe 50-80$ for a simple bracelet.
The Sterling Silver bracelet, from the post above, was about 80$, for a couple of reasons:
-Silver. Is not. Cheap.
-Since silver is not cheap, I went the extra mile and cut the links with a jewelers saw instead of side cutters. This makes the "seam" of the closed ring much less noticeable, which looks nicer, and the rings do a better job of not falling apart.
-Smaller wire means smaller rings. The smaller the rings, the more rings you need per inch. 22 ga wire is as small as I usually work with, if I'm making something to sell.
I don't do garments. Coifs and shirts take a bloody long time to make, and lingerie has to be fitted by hand. In person. Well, I might do lingerie if you're female, twenty-something, and think unemployed artist-geeks are cute. Other then that, you're out of luck.
There is a disclaimer: chainmail can, and will, fall apart or break at times. I do everything I can to minimize this, and I've been chain-smithing for almost ten years, but it still happens. I'm very particular about cutting and closing the rings properly, which goes a long way. I always use the smallest diameter rings possible; this makes the links less prone to spreading open when under stress (and it looks nicer, too). I do repairs for free, even if I didn't make the chain mail.
Interesting.
At present, outside budget - and shipping would sting a bit, too. But interesting nonetheless.
DSOF #46 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=46) Is up.
I could not, for the life of me, get a decent background for the second last panel done. Also, I have got to get better at composing panels to accommodate text. And use less dialog in general. (But then, each location could have been a page in itself, so I'm not surprised)
Any way, comments and critiques appreciated.
Ooh, shopping :3
I like how, instead of actually having his hair done, Theo just has an instructor tell him what to do xD I guess that would be how that service is done for Cubi...
One thing I will note: As far as I have seen in DMFA, "ch'ya" seems to be more of an exclamation, not an acknowledgement or affirmative.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on September 25, 2009, 10:25:52 PM
One thing I will note: As far as I have seen in DMFA, "ch'ya" seems to be more of an exclamation, not an acknowledgement or affirmative.
I agree, that warp-aci word is really more of an exclamation without any meaning.
It reminds me of how Sakura in the dubbed Naruto episodes would also say "ch'ya" as an exclamation.
In that case it's probably just a dubbed substitute for some Japanese phrase that has no real (short) English translation, just like how Naruto wasn't originally saying "believe it" when he says "believe it" in the dub.
But hey, I guess it's sort of the same thing here, since I remember reading somewhere that "ch'ya" was a warp-aci word that has no meaning in any language known on Furrae.
Heh. Here's my credit card. ;-]
I expect the shop assistant to become suddenly _much_ more helpful. ;-]
From the dialogue, I'm a little confused as to whether he's pawned a platinum ring there, or whether (as the imagery seems to say) the ring has his clan symbol or some similar mark and they're accepting that as a mark of his credit-worthiness.
Other than that, nice work. Good to see that 'Cubi are a bit more integrated in Zinvth than in Abel's youth.
What's with the halo, though?
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 26, 2009, 06:22:52 AM
From the dialogue, I'm a little confused as to whether he's pawned a platinum ring there, or whether (as the imagery seems to say) the ring has his clan symbol or some similar mark and they're accepting that as a mark of his credit-worthiness.
I assumed the latter, as he's stamping it into some sealing wax and showing it.
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on September 26, 2009, 09:57:47 AM
I assumed the latter, as he's stamping it into some sealing wax and showing it.
Yes, that's what finally convinced me. However, it looked at first like he was pressing a button, albeit with his knuckles.
Signet rings are commonly used for sealing sekrit letters, but can be used to put your stamp of authority on any sort of document. Which effectively "signs" it as a handwritten signature would.
Like a bill of sale, for example.
As for the symbol on it, this isn't the last time we'll see it. I'll say this much; it's not Theo's clan symbol, and it is his legitimate. It's heraldry, and there's hints enough in the comic already about it's source. Free cameo to the first person who can guess.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 26, 2009, 06:22:52 AM
What's with the halo, though?
He's an angel (http://www.missmab.com/Demo/angel.php). I can give him a halo if I wanna. :)
Quote from: WhiteFox on September 26, 2009, 05:53:39 PM
As for the symbol on it, this isn't the last time we'll see it. I'll say this much; it's not Theo's clan symbol, and it is his legitimate. It's heraldry, and there's hints enough in the comic already about it's source. Free cameo to the first person who can guess.
Of course it's not his clan symbol; we saw that in the first or second strip (depending on if you think the first strip was clear enough); it's only the two outer half-circles, with a sort of tick at the top, which implies that the two laurel branches on this one are sort-of related, but not the same thing.
I'd say they're a druid thing, from his mother's side. And the sword would then, obviously, be a reference to the Archmagister - only it seems more likely to be a reference to his Master Overlord thing...
Could be almost anything. That's the fun of heraldry...
Quote from: WhiteFox on September 26, 2009, 05:53:39 PM
He's an angel (http://www.missmab.com/Demo/angel.php). I can give him a halo if I wanna. :)
Heh. The wing configuration is a bit of a giveaway. However a lot of people seem to have problems breaking the association with medieval Christian angels - typically assuming that they are always good and that demons are always evil - and I guess I wanted to see if you were leaning that way as well :P
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 26, 2009, 07:28:22 PM
I'd say they're a druid thing, from his mother's side. And the sword would then, obviously, be a reference to the Archmagister
A good guess, but not a correct one. :3
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 27, 2009, 07:22:30 AM
Heh. The wing configuration is a bit of a giveaway. However a lot of people seem to have problems breaking the association with medieval Christian angels - typically assuming that they are always good and that demons are always evil - and I guess I wanted to see if you were leaning that way as well :P
The diametric nature of angels and demons will be a significant element in DSOF's story. There are a few principals I'm taking from Abrahamic faiths, including that Angels-are-good and Demons-are-evil.
...But good and evil isn't always black and white.
Besides that, all the demons and angels in DSOF are still
characters. If they all simply acted according to their species, they're a lot less interesting.
(And no, I'm not planning on making a huge deal about whether or not Theo and his actions are good or evil. Too cliche.)
Quote from: WhiteFox on September 27, 2009, 06:00:49 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 26, 2009, 07:28:22 PM
I'd say they're a druid thing, from his mother's side. And the sword would then, obviously, be a reference to the Archmagister
A good guess, but not a correct one. :3
Shame. Are they supposed to be laurel branches, or something else?
Quote from: WhiteFox on September 26, 2009, 05:53:39 PM
As for the symbol on it, this isn't the last time we'll see it. I'll say this much; it's not Theo's clan symbol, and it is his legitimate. It's heraldry, and there's hints enough in the comic already about it's source.
Well, we've already seen the old wedding painting (on p34) when Felix was poking around in Theo's room, and Theo gave his rank (on p14) just before he lost his temper with Felix, so I'd say the signet and its device, and the credit account that goes with it, are his — he hasn't done the Furrae equivalent of "borrowing" his parents' credit card.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on September 27, 2009, 06:12:04 PM
Quote from: WhiteFox on September 27, 2009, 06:00:49 PM
Shame. Are they supposed to be laurel branches, or something else?
Antlers, actually.
Quote from: SpottedKitty on September 27, 2009, 06:38:37 PM
Well, we've already seen the old wedding painting (on p34) when Felix was poking around in Theo's room, and Theo gave his rank (on p14) just before he lost his temper with Felix, so I'd say the signet and its device, and the credit account that goes with it, are his — he hasn't done the Furrae equivalent of "borrowing" his parents' credit card.
All correct... I'd call that a winning guess. The signet ring is part of Theonor's regalia, and bears the coat of arms for one of his baronies. SpottedKitty, send me a PM if you'd like a cameo. :)
Quote from: WhiteFox on September 27, 2009, 08:55:15 PM
All correct... I'd call that a winning guess. The signet ring is part of Theonor's regalia, and bears the coat of arms for one of his baronies. SpottedKitty, send me a PM if you'd like a cameo. :)
<gleep>
I actually
won one of these little "guess the wotsit" things? :boogie
OK, give me a little while to think this over, I'll PM you soon.
Incredibly late, but done. Yay.
DSOF#47 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=47)
Significant delays on this page for a couple of reasons. Which I could go into, but wont.
I will say this much: Jade is tall. Freaking tall. Eight foot, nine inches. This has been true since day one, but I think pg. #47 is the first page where it's really evident.
I think I remembered to draw Theo's tail for the first time in... well, probably ever.
Still mad at the backgrounds. I think they're half as crappy as they have been, but that's still pretty crappy. (If anyone's wondering, they're supposedly at a table outside of a cafe. The gray field in the last two panels being the wall of the cafe. Cripes, I'm a hack)
Anyway... Comments and critiques very much appreciated.
SpottedKitty: I sent you a PM. Still waiting for a response.
[EDIT:] Also, new avatar. As the seasons change, so do I.
Jade is eight foot nine?!?
Uhm. How do her legs support her upper body?
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on October 07, 2009, 11:49:17 PM
Jade is eight foot nine?!?
Uhm. How do her legs support her upper body?
Very well. :3
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on October 07, 2009, 11:49:17 PM
Jade is eight foot nine?!?
Yep. I had all the character heights figured out fairly early in the comic's planning stages, and she's the tallest. (Well, except for Grastille, but he's a bit character. And dead.)
From the CCC thread, a height chart including Kipiru Starrider, an Average Being, and Jade:
Height Sheet (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/kip_height.png) (Warning: Moderate NSFW. No clothes, but not anatomically complete)
Well, Ralgu clocks in at 12 foot 6. But he hasn't shown up yet.
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on October 07, 2009, 11:49:17 PM
Uhm. How do her legs support her upper body?
1: She's a demon. Supernatural strength, durability, and endurance.
2: Said legs happen to be shapely and well toned. So, to second !KCA, very well indeed.
She's a big girl, she can stand up for herself. (Rimshot)
If it's any consolation,
Dark Pegasus Aliph (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_980.php) probably matches that easily. Or her (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Ab_045.php), for that matter.
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 07, 2009, 09:56:30 PM
SpottedKitty: I sent you a PM. Still waiting for a response.
Apologies for the delay, PM sent with references.
Very nice new page. Jade looks good with her makeover. And I wonder who this is coming in from stage left...?
DSOF #48 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=48) is now up. Note: I would consider this page just barely work safe.
Gotta love vixens, eh?
Backgrounds continue to be a bit of a problem. Originally, I was going to do them entirely in digital. It turns out that this just does not work for me. I cannot draw unless I'm putting pencil to paper, and I'm pretty sure I'm hardwired that way. I've started doing more work on the BG's in the planning stages (including sketching out a set before blocking in a thumbnail draft of the page). They're looking much better.
However, I only started doing this after #49 was already drawn and inked. #50 is also drawn, and mostly inked, and it's set is looking much nicer. I don't think starting 48# over is really worth it, so we'll be in the "Formless Gray Cube" district of Zinvith (rich with cultural and historical significance) for a little while more.
The astute may notice that I just said that I have #49 and #50 drawn and inked, after taking 4 days to post page 48. At this rate, I may consider updating twice a week. If I can get to next monday on schedule, I'll know.
As ever, critiques and comments would be very much appreciated.
Oh my. I wonder if Emeline's mouth has gotten her into trouble before? :U
Incidentally, I'm also wondering why Theo is trying to escape rather than diffuse the situation between two of his own friends.
As far as critique goes, two things to say;
One, I like how Emeline has one headwing straight up up and one folded down. That's a nice bit of uniqueness I've not seen before. It almost looks like a salute...
Two, and I'm being completely honest here, I think you screwed up Emeline's side profile in the second panel. Her body looks like a man's, not a woman's, because she looks like she has pecs instead of boobs. They aren't "out" at all, which is quite weird, as the shading in panels one and five imply a -very- ample bosom. Especially since she's folding and
tucking her arms
under them in the fifth.
Basically, don't be afraid of being truthful with profiles. Cuz really...that just doesn't look right.
Quote
so we'll be in the "Formless Gray Cube" district of Zinvith (rich with cultural and historical significance)
xD
Heck, I'd probably live there...
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on October 14, 2009, 02:03:23 AM
Incidentally, I'm also wondering why Theo is trying to escape rather than diffuse the situation between two of his own friends.
Very good question... Emeline is wondering the exact same thing in the last panel there.
Theo and I, however, already know the answer, and it will come up in the future. >:3
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on October 14, 2009, 02:03:23 AM
One, I like how Emeline has one headwing straight up up and one folded down. That's a nice bit of uniqueness I've not seen before. It almost looks like a salute...
I was going for a kind of "fancy feathered hat" sort of look. But without the hat.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on October 14, 2009, 02:03:23 AM
Two, and I'm being completely honest here, I think you screwed up Emeline's side profile in the second panel. Her body looks like a man's, not a woman's, because she looks like she has pecs instead of boobs. They aren't "out" at all, which is quite weird, as the shading in panels one and five imply a -very- ample bosom. Especially since she's folding and tucking her arms under them in the fifth.
I'm... not sure on that. I usually consider bewbs as hemispherical in dimensions, being wider then they are deep (of course bearing in mind that the exact shape is far from an actual hemisphere). In that respect, panel #2 may be more accurate then #5 in terms of how deep they should be.
As for looking mannish, they are shaded pretty roundly. The dress might be confusing her profile, since it doesn't "tuck" under her bust.
Well... Only one thing to do. I'm just going to have to spend a few days drawing heuge bewbs till I sort it out. Darn.
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 14, 2009, 02:36:37 AM
I'm... not sure on that. I usually consider bewbs as hemispherical in dimensions, being wider then they are deep (of course bearing in mind that the exact shape is far from an actual hemisphere). In that respect, panel #2 may be more accurate then #5 in terms of how deep they should be.
As for looking mannish, they are shaded pretty roundly. The dress might be confusing her profile, since it doesn't "tuck" under her bust.
Well, the reason why it looks wrong to me is I don't think even flat-chested women have assets that wrap around the
sides of their chests, which is what's going on in panel two. As far as I know, that's for muscles, not mammaries (although I am admittedly not an anatomy buff). But that's just me.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on October 14, 2009, 02:43:14 AM
Well, the reason why it looks wrong to me is I don't think even flat-chested women have assets that wrap around the sides of their chests, which is what's going on in panel two. As far as I know, that's for muscles, not mammaries (although I am admittedly not an anatomy buff). But that's just me.
A-
ha.
I think you're right. The ribcage isn't flat across the front so mammaries do "wrap" somewhat, but I've probably placed them
too far to the side.
Thank you for the feedback, by the way. It's very much appreciated.
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 14, 2009, 03:14:40 AM
The ribcage isn't flat across the front so mammaries do "wrap" somewhat, but I've probably placed them too far to the side.
I'm not too sure about that, actually, I thought it was a natural outcome of her shoulders-back pose and the narrow front of her dress.
BTW, that's a nice (im)practical application of the "Theiss Tittilation Theory" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ware_Theiss) you have there... >:3
Quote from: SpottedKitty on October 14, 2009, 03:31:04 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 14, 2009, 03:14:40 AM
The ribcage isn't flat across the front so mammaries do "wrap" somewhat, but I've probably placed them too far to the side.
I'm not too sure about that, actually, I thought it was a natural outcome of her shoulders-back pose and the narrow front of her dress.
Having her shoulders pulled back, and her back arched, might account for some of it. Still, I'm going to have to do additional sketching.
Quote from: SpottedKitty on October 14, 2009, 03:31:04 AM
BTW, that's a nice (im)practical application of the "Theiss Tittilation Theory" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ware_Theiss) you have there... >:3
What can I say? Emiline has...
talents.
I can't comment on the artwork itself (and right now looking at it probably wouldn't be a good idea) but I have to say, I do kind of like the way this is heading. I just hope they don't get kicked out of the city.
If you don't want to put a lot of work into the background, just vary the heights a little so it doesn't look like they're wandering around a bunch of giant cubicles. You could also vary the colors a bit. Pinkish grey is a good color; it's highly evocative of brick and certain types of sandstone and granite. Stick with "more grey, more mid-sized" to avoid making the background look cluttered. You can pour a lot of personality into a set of buildings with just two colors and three different heights.
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 14, 2009, 03:40:16 AM
What can I say? Emiline has... talents.
And quite a perky... wingspan. ;)
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 14, 2009, 04:54:31 AM
I can't comment on the artwork itself (and right now looking at it probably wouldn't be a good idea) but I have to say, I do kind of like the way this is heading. I just hope they don't get kicked out of the city.
[EDIT] Misunderstood Tape's comment. Got kind of emo.
Ahem... Glad you're enjoying the show. Art-comments are always appreciated, tho.
Quote from: !KCA on October 14, 2009, 08:38:21 AM
If you don't want to put a lot of work into the background...
Actually, I do. I just have to find a process that works. Still, all those suggestions will are useful. I'm sure I'm going to have panels where I won't want to take 2 hours to draft out complicated architecture for a "talking head" shot.
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 08, 2009, 02:24:10 AM
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on October 07, 2009, 11:49:17 PM
Jade is eight foot nine?!?
Yep. I had all the character heights figured out fairly early in the comic's planning stages, and she's the tallest. (Well, except for Grastille, but he's a bit character. And dead.)
From the CCC thread, a height chart including Kipiru Starrider, an Average Being, and Jade:
Height Sheet (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/kip_height.png) (Warning: Moderate NSFW. No clothes, but not anatomically complete)
Well, Ralgu clocks in at 12 foot 6. But he hasn't shown up yet.
What is Ralgu's species?
Wow, if Jade is 8'9", that means that my demon characters will have to be in 8'-10' height range, since they're all ungulates and would stand taller with digitigrade legs.
How tall is Kiripu? I want Ignacious to roughly match his height, since they're both unicorns.
Quote from: ChaosMageX on October 15, 2009, 02:18:03 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 08, 2009, 02:24:10 AM
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on October 07, 2009, 11:49:17 PM
Jade is eight foot nine?!?
Yep. I had all the character heights figured out fairly early in the comic's planning stages, and she's the tallest. (Well, except for Grastille, but he's a bit character. And dead.)
From the CCC thread, a height chart including Kipiru Starrider, an Average Being, and Jade:
Height Sheet (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/dmfa/kip_height.png) (Warning: Moderate NSFW. No clothes, but not anatomically complete)
Well, Ralgu clocks in at 12 foot 6. But he hasn't shown up yet.
What is Ralgu's species?
Wow, if Jade is 8'9", that means that my demon characters will have to be in 8'-10' height range, since they're all ungulates and would stand taller with digitigrade legs.
How tall is Kiripu? I want Ignacious to roughly match his height, since they're both unicorns.
Ralgu hasn't appeared yet, so we don't know.
Kip's bio says three meters tall. It's in the CCC thread.
DSOF#49 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=49)[NSFW: Language and Strong Themes]
I love Emeliné's expression in the fourth panel. "Dear god, I'm dealing with crazy person!"
Alternate title I considered was "Is Jade Gonna Have To 'Choke a Bitch'?" but I decided that was a little too crude. Also rejected: "It Turns Out Jade is Totally Ghetto", also rejected for reasons that that have not come up yet in the comic.
I also considered putting a parting shot from Jade in the third last panel, but I thought Emmie's expression pretty well said it all.
Although it seems to be a recurring element, I am very particular about my use of intimidation through physical means. In the incident between Jade, Felix, and Theonor, for example, it didn't really work for any parties involved (Let's face it, the only one intimidated for that whole event was Felix, and he was more concerned about Theo's rank and status).
I have decided not to start updating twice a week. I don't want to burn out on the comic, and there are too many other things that need attention. Like an actual website for the comic. Plus, I wouldn't have time for anything else at all if I did.
As always, comments and critiques appreciated.
You're right, a parting shot really wasn't needed.
And it's nice to see Jade is at least relaxed enough to settle down and enjoy her tea. Maybe.
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 16, 2009, 09:10:39 PM
I also considered putting a parting shot from Jade in the third last panel, but I thought Emmie's expression pretty well said it all.
Yes, that's a pretty good "I-really-need-fresh-underwear" expression if I ever saw one...
And Jade wins the award for best rant of the strip so far.
That was kind of fun. The rant was excellent. How did you come up with it?
Quote from: Tapewolf on October 17, 2009, 03:15:38 PM
That was kind of fun. The rant was excellent. How did you come up with it?
Wrote it myself. I set up a situation that would let me establish something about Jade (at the same time introducing Emmie's character as well, and establishing something about Theonor too... but that's a pretty subtle element); then I just put myself in Jades shoes and started writing.
The majority of the rant was written beforehand. If I'm planning conversation that will span several panels, I always draft out a script to sort out the flow. Her final comments I had in mind, but didn't actually write till I was laying out the text on the page, which is the last step of the comic. I'm not afraid to change the script as I go. Sometimes my estimate for how much area the text will need is really off, and other times I just come up with a better idea then what I had in mind.
An earlier version I was thinking of went like this:
Panel 5, Jade: "So maybe it's a good thing I'm not from around here."
Panel 6, Jade: "But then... they do call Zinvith the 'City of Demons', don't they?"
But I realized that I wanted to leave panel 6 wordless. At the same time, I didn't want to imply that Zinvith was the sort of place Jade had grew up in; I doubt you're going to get your throat ripped out in broad daylight there, and Jade
didn't grow up in a large city. Plus, the implication that Jade might rip Emmie a new one after all was kind of weak.
I was going to have her say "...do something
Theonor might appreciate." but then I figured that Jade would know for certain that Theo
wouldn't appreciate it. I think this version is better anyway, since it's a lot more intimidating to suggest that
everyone would be glad to see Emeliné dead, and this wording does a better job of referencing the earlier text, where Jade describes the environment she grew up in.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 16, 2009, 09:21:07 PM
And it's nice to see Jade is at least relaxed enough to settle down and enjoy her tea. Maybe.
Jade isn't
uncivilized, per se... she's just from a different
sort of civilization. Besides... she likes tea.
Quote from: SpottedKitty on October 16, 2009, 10:33:47 PM
And Jade wins the award for best rant of the strip so far.
Glad you're enjoying the show. It was fun to write. >:3
I'm getting "server not found" messages when I try to see the strip. Any idea what's going on?
Quote from: LionHeart on October 18, 2009, 03:00:33 AM
I'm getting "server not found" messages when I try to see the strip. Any idea what's going on?
Works fine for me. Want to try again?
Ah. Now it's come up.
I like Theo's reply to her at the end. Nice.
And Emeliné's expression in the panel before - she has just realised that she's gotten in way over her head. Not so much bitten off more than she can chew, but bitten into something that could chew her up and spit her out without a second thought.
Once again, it has taken me far to long to get around to commenting...
Jade definitely has an excellent look of insane fury on her face when she's getting fired up (pun intended :3 ). She really looks ready to cut loose right there.
Also, I love Theo's completely nonchalant to Emeline's question. He's just "Yup, that's Jade" to her little display there. Although, I am starting to wonder, aside from being the only two people (if I remember correctly) in that "empire building" class, how Emeline and Theo actually became friends (as opposed to just classmates/acquaintances)...
EDIT: Oh, and uh, just noticed this... is Emeline missing her headwings in panel 4?
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on October 22, 2009, 03:29:49 PM
Also, I love Theo's completely nonchalant to Emeline's question. He's just "Yup, that's Jade" to her little display there.
I like to think that Theo made that comment
unaware of the exchange between the two (He's indoors at the moment). It's funnier that way, but it also means that he's being truthful about it. He really does like her for it.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on October 22, 2009, 03:29:49 PM
Although, I am starting to wonder, aside from being the only two people (if I remember correctly) in that "empire building" class, how Emeline and Theo actually became friends...
Heh... I love it when people pick up the details. There were ten to begin with, but that number has diminished somewhat.
Originally, I was going to bring Emeline in with Jade sitting at the cafe wearing the sport top and jeans, with the opening comment, "Are those mine?" Followed by the explanation that Emmie was Theo's rommie at SAIA, and that she had left them (Which is why Theo had some girls clothing to give Jade in the first place.). Followed by Theo trying to convince Jade that there nothing between him and Emmie, with Emmie making comments that didn't help the situation.
In the end, I scrubbed that version of the storyline because the situation was too cliche. Also, Jade would have to have been wearing the jeans and sport top outfit. Which meant her current robe wouldn't show up until much later and I felt that the fewer the costume changes, the better. So Jade got a new outfit with her makeover, and Emeline came in with a much different angle of attack.
All the above is still true, actually, but the reason Theo categorizes Emeline as a friend is a concept I'm going to be developing in future plotlines, and is much more involved then just "they were roomies."
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on October 22, 2009, 03:29:49 PM
EDIT: Oh, and uh, just noticed this... is Emeline missing her headwings in panel 4?
Thanks for the heads-up. *Rimshot*
Well, pg. #50 might be delayed somewhat. The first reason being that I want to do some additional line work, and that means going back to the paper copy. Which means I'll have to scan it again, and some of the coloring I've done so far might have to be reworked.
The other reason being that a friend of mine mentioned a possibility of some paid work doing knot work designs, and I've been trying to get some portfolio material together. Normally, this wouldn't delay my once a week update schedule, but my mind seems to run on rails. Once it starts going in one direction, it's bloody hard to switch gears. So I haven't been able to focus on any other work at all.
Anyway... here's some of the drafts I came up with. Most of these are based on modified triquertas:
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/kotd004.png)
This is a triquerta. Also referred to as a Trinity Knot.
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/kotd003.png)
Double-Lined triquerta. A huge pain in the butt to do, but cool. I'd probably add color to something like this, since the image is hard to read.
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/kotd006.png)
A border made of modified triquertas. This is the simplest way to ink knot-work, which is why I use it when I'm experimenting.
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/kotd007.png)
A properly lined triquerta border. To either side are the planning stages in pencil.
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/kotd008.png)
A quatrefoil. This one was laid out entirely with a straightedge and a compass, which made the planning stage very technically precise. Too bad my inks messed it all up.
[EDIT]Whoop, forgot one:
(http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/knot/kotd005.png)
Circular border of modified triquertas.
Nice. Some of that is tattoo quality stuff. I especially like the triquerta. :januscat
DSOF #50 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=50)
All kinds of not happy with everything. For all the time I spent talking about improving the backgrounds, I don't think it would have mattered much. Just too damned many speech bubbles. I thought about splitting this conversation up into two pages, but I really couldn't make the script work.
I did take the time to redraw a panel, and add another one to smooth out the transitions. Still, panel 3 is a mess, in terms of inks, and redrawing it twice garnered no better results. I'm starting to miss the days where I accidently forgot details like wings and tails. It made everything so much easier.
There are all kinds of problems with this page. At this point I have to just post it, try to make the next page better, and hope I can stop screaming in frustration sometime this week.
Gah. I hate feeling like I let people down with my stupid crap.
I like panel 5 the most. That look on Emmie's face is priceless.
Also, a "People's Cultural Revolution"? Is that supposed to be Emmie's own version of socialism?
Quote from: ChaosMageX on October 26, 2009, 12:57:51 AM
Also, a "People's Cultural Revolution"? Is that supposed to be Emmie's own version of socialism?
Sounds like her class project. One that's going up in flames figuratively, instead of literally like the others. Practical exercises in this particular subject are certainly... different. :rolleyes
just pointing out, your speech bubbles are very inconsistent in how they're shaped, ellipses, rounded rectangles, then right-angled rectangles. it might actually be wise to have a set shape for dialog, narration, etc.
Minor comment about etymology.
I doubt they'd call them the "humanities" on a Furrae world where the very existance of humans outside mythology is something that seems in debate.
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on October 26, 2009, 01:21:31 PM
I doubt they'd call them the "humanities" on a Furrae world where the very existance of humans outside mythology is something that seems in debate.
True, but since the comic is drawn for human readers, using some communal terms is acceptable, if not required. Spending all your time working up a whole new etymology is going to be neat and all, but is unlikely to keep the buffer full. Sometimes it's better to just let it slide and move on... ;-]
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on October 26, 2009, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on October 26, 2009, 01:21:31 PM
I doubt they'd call them the "humanities" on a Furrae world where the very existance of humans outside mythology is something that seems in debate.
True, but since the comic is drawn for human readers, using some communal terms is acceptable, if not required. Spending all your time working up a whole new etymology is going to be neat and all, but is unlikely to keep the buffer full. Sometimes it's better to just let it slide and move on... ;-]
A similar thought had occurred to me after I put the "Inhuman Resources" sign on Maltorius' door.
"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." -Tom Clancy
Quote from: Turnsky on October 26, 2009, 12:57:33 PM
just pointing out, your speech bubbles are very inconsistent in how they're shaped, ellipses, rounded rectangles, then right-angled rectangles. it might actually be wise to have a set shape for dialog, narration, etc.
I fully agree with you on that. I'm still experimenting with ways of drawing speech balloons. I'm going to have to move that up on my list of priorities.
The sharp cornered rectangles are total mistake on my part, however. Grr.
another point of contention, i know her boobs are supposed to be of unreal dimension, but the nipples are somewhat out of place with the rest of the comic, and technically speaking, on an anthro anything? nipples shouldn't be anywhere near that prominent... nor that large.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/abpgaleria/344172878/sizes/o/ <--- not remotely worksafe, but it should give you the right idea.
Quote from: Turnsky on October 31, 2009, 10:25:24 PM
another point of contention, i know her boobs are supposed to be of unreal dimension, but the nipples are somewhat out of place with the rest of the comic, and technically speaking, on an anthro anything? nipples shouldn't be anywhere near that prominent... nor that large.
When I designed the character I figured that if she were going for maximum effect... and if she were completely shameless, which she is... she'd probably exaggerate her nipples to make them blatantly obvious, in addition to plumping up her bust to
absurediculous proportions.
Quote from: Turnsky on October 31, 2009, 10:25:24 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/abpgaleria/344172878/sizes/o/ <--- not remotely worksafe, but it should give you the right idea.
I've seen that guide before, and it is a very good guide, but those look too "anime" for me. Usually I'll dig up a few real life images of a bust that resembles the shape and size I have in mind for a character, and work with that.
I do try to stay aware of the physics though (IE; Step 3)... I wish I knew how well I was doing in that respect.
[PS] If anyone's wondering why the comic wasn't up last Friday, Real Life threw me for a loop. What's new.
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 01, 2009, 07:41:13 PM
if she were going for maximum effect... and if she were completely shameless, which she is...
Presumably Emmie is another student heading towards needing a word or two of advice from Fa'lina (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Ab_025.php)...
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 01, 2009, 07:41:13 PM
When I designed the character I figured that if she were going for maximum effect... and if she were completely shameless, which she is... she'd probably exaggerate her nipples to make them blatantly obvious, in addition to plumping up her bust to absurediculous proportions.
even so, it does seem completely unnecessary for there to be suddenly nipples, overall, she just looks cold. >:3
Kitty: Just maybe. (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_549.php)
Turn: Maybe, but cold perky nipples are smexay.
This isn't the first time nipples have appeared in the comic (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=17). They havn't shown up in any other of Jade's nude scenes because... well... there ended up being more of them then I expected (mostly to reduce the number of costume changes), and I got scared, to be honest. In retrospect, I don't think I should have chickened out.
I don't want to belabor the point, but it's my comic and my characters. If I want nipples on them, I'll give them nipples.
You have a point, though. I do need to be consistent with details like this, and I'll have to watch out for it in the future.
DSOF #51 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=51) Certainty.
Text. Is a pain. In the butt. I tried to arrange the balloons into three columns in the first panel, but I don't know if it worked.
BG's still occupying my attention.
I did some studies on wings this weekend, so expect visual changes. Theo's wings in panel 3 are horrid, but the rest aren't bad. I always thought of him as having small, triangular wings, but I never seem to draw them right. Emmie's wings look pretty good in panel one there, too bad they're so obscured.
Also, posted a little Portrait of Felix (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3007962) @ FA.
Anyway. Comments, feedback, and critique appreciated.
... When you're making the balloons, accepted convention is to have separate strings for each speaker. This means each speaker has a definitive black line between their balloons and the other speakers. I note you've coloured them, here, but convention works otherwise.
You did this in the middle string on the first panel, but then it seemed to slip in the third one, come back in the second panel, then slip again in the last panel.
And you're still alternating between oval and square balloons; that's less of a concern, more of a minor stylistic choice, but is mildly jarring to read; IME, square balloons are used for narrator type activity, and are generally not joined. But that's not a big deal, more of a minor nitpick; it's particularly noticeable in the final panel, however.
In panel 2, Emeline appears unbalanced, something that is not the case in the other two images (merely saggy, which suggests she needs a talk from Fa'Lina about how to make big look good, but I digress). Her left nipple is lower than her right - since it's in the crook of her arm, if anything it should be higher than the other one.
Other than that, I note you've been putting more detail into the characters themselves, and your lines are getting more consistent across multiple panels (eg, Theo's ears in panels 1 and 3), so you're making some progress there. Keep it up! ;-]
The last panel has Emeline saying Theo's line. Also, there's a typo in Theo's round bubble.
Looking good, though. I await the next one with interest.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 06:16:57 AM
...This means each speaker has a definitive black line between their balloons and the other speakers.
Quote from: Tapewolf on November 07, 2009, 06:36:37 AM
The last panel has Emeline saying Theo's line.
There's supposed to be definitive lines, as per the middle column of panel one. I must have screwed up the lining at some point.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 06:16:57 AM
And you're still alternating between oval and square balloons; that's less of a concern, more of a minor stylistic choice, but is mildly jarring to read...
It's a pretty simple equation, actually. Square balloons are easier for me to draw, and to arrange the text in them. I'm trying to use round bubbles more and more. Little ones are simple, but the big ones are... uncooperative.
I've always favored results over style. If it's jarring to read, I'm doing something about it.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 06:16:57 AM
In panel 2, Emeline appears unbalanced, something that is not the case in the other two images. Her left nipple is lower than her right - since it's in the crook of her arm, if anything it should be higher than the other one.
... Huh. The nipples are actually level (I checked in Photoshop, with a guideline), so I'm not sure what's going on there. I didn't intend for her arm to look like it was supporting her bust, only that it was tucked under them. The taper of the forearm might be making one look bigger then the other, I guess.
Her bewbies are actually supposed to look just a
bit saggy, but only in order to imply sheer weight. I might have to rethink how I draw them.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 06:16:57 AM
Other than that, I note you've been putting more detail into the characters themselves, and your lines are getting more consistent across multiple panels (eg, Theo's ears in panels 1 and 3), so you're making some progress there. Keep it up! ;-]
Yay, progress! I've been trying to spend more time refining the lining, and proofing things like tails and ears and wings, so I'm glad it's noticeable.
Quote from: Tapewolf on November 07, 2009, 06:36:37 AM
I await the next one with interest.
Me too. :3
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 07:01:30 AM
There's supposed to be definitive lines, as per the middle column of panel one. I must have screwed up the lining at some point.
The main problem is that the speech bubble for Theo is pointing directly at her. If you lengthen the line or move the speech bubble closer to him will work better.
It's made worse by what he's saying: "I have a thing in the afternoon. Afterwards?" ...if taken as Em's speech, it sounds like she's trying to hit on him again, especially when the bottom one says "sure." - if you get confused by the second bubble it looks like he's agreed to a liason with her.
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 07:01:30 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 06:16:57 AM
And you're still alternating between oval and square balloons; that's less of a concern, more of a minor stylistic choice, but is mildly jarring to read...
It's a pretty simple equation, actually. Square balloons are easier for me to draw, and to arrange the text in them. I'm trying to use round bubbles more and more. Little ones are simple, but the big ones are... uncooperative.
I've always favored results over style. If it's jarring to read, I'm doing something about it.
Mildly jarring. It's better than it was. Get the lines between the bubbles sorted, and it might be small enough to go unnoticed.
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 07:01:30 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 06:16:57 AM
In panel 2, Emeline appears unbalanced, something that is not the case in the other two images. Her left nipple is lower than her right - since it's in the crook of her arm, if anything it should be higher than the other one.
... Huh. The nipples are actually level (I checked in Photoshop, with a guideline), so I'm not sure what's going on there. I didn't intend for her arm to look like it was supporting her bust, only that it was tucked under them. The taper of the forearm might be making one look bigger then the other, I guess.
Her bewbies are actually supposed to look just a bit saggy, but only in order to imply sheer weight. I might have to rethink how I draw them.
It's not that they look bigger - her left is pointing down. And if you get someone to stand in that position for you, you'll see that it's not possible to...
Scuse me. *goes and gets his wife to stand in that position*
Yeah. Unless the lady in question has extremely long upper arms (and the visible upper arm suggests rather the reverse, since her elbow is higher than her nipple), her arm across her lower chest is going to press the breast upwards, a little - unless they're a lot perkier and/or smaller than you've drawn. And it's not the size of the forearm that makes the difference; it's the breasts that are different. (I tried putting my arm in the same place, and it seemed likely to me that the breasts would be pushed up; testing with my wife showed I was wrong, but only just; and that's for
her, since she's not built like Emeline. Mind you, is anyone? ;-] ) That would change the shape of the underside of the breast a little, and moves the nipple around a bit - mostly changing the direction it points in, due to the support nullifying gravity pulling on the skin on one side, and the balancing forces of the cloth around it, etc.
I think, despite the guideline, it's not that they're not level - it's that they
shouldn't be. If they were, she'd have to have all the vanishing points pointing off to the same place, and she's not. The breasts stand out because they're horizontal, and her left should be maybe 5-10 degrees higher than the right, in order to vanish off to the right point. She's not facing the camera, she's facing to the right, so there's some change needed there.
Does that make sense? I'm not sure what the right arty words are for what I'm trying to say, here.
As for sagginess, I would expect, if they're fake, for them to be perkier than would normally be possible. But that's just me; mostly, I'm merely going with what you've drawn already...
Something like this, Box? (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/boobstyle.jpg)
Er, yes. Although, to be scrupulously fair, the body you've drawn is rather heavier-set than Emeline. The torso and frame, I mean.
And, well, you didn't draw the nipples on the one with the arm underneath, and she's facing the other way to Panel 2. If we're being picky and all. ;-]
But yes, aspersions aside, that is something like what I meant. Thank you for taking the time to draw it.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 07:57:31 AM
I'm not sure what the right arty words are for what I'm trying to say, here.
You know... feedback doesn't always need to be technical. Most of the technical stuff I can look up in guides and reference books, or I can google for reference images, or I can look at other peoples work and see what they do. What I can't do is take a look at my own art, and judge what's working and what isn't. I'm too close to it, so I can't see the forrest for the trees. So, even just hearing that something looks off is very useful.
Quote from: Turnsky on November 07, 2009, 08:43:35 AM
Something like this, Box? (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/boobstyle.jpg)
Conversely, having someone who can explain it does make things a lot easier to think about. (I love your sketching, by the way. Every line is really expressive.)
All this discussion has all been very constructive for me. Seriously... this has been entirely awesome, you guys. :)
You're right about one thing, boxy. I intended the lower arm in panel 2 to be just resting under the bust, not actually pushing it up, but her bicep would have to be about 50% longer then it should be to do that. Also, if her bust overlaps her arms when seen from the front, it would be impossible for the raised arm *not* to push her breast aside. I must have been lazy when I figured out the pose.
I did some sketching this afternoon. About three pages, but I could use feeback on these two in particular:
Pinup (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/emelinepinup.png) [NSFW: Nudity]
The biceps length thing is really noticeable. I think the raised arm-and-boob came out pretty well, though. I think the nip on the right should be higher, though, since she has her back arched and the view has a bit of up shot to it.
Profile (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/emelineprofile.png)[NSFW: Nudity]
This is how I imagine Emmie's breasts ought to be shaped, compared to Turn's sketchs. The top has a gentle slope and the underside is roundly curved, and the majority of the mass is
below the armpit.
I don't like to draw breasts as hemispheres, nor do I like to place them high on the chest. I see a lot of artists do that, and it drives me up the wall: it's like they're floating. As I understand it, they should only look like that if the figure is wearing a pushup bra, or corset. Am I wrong on this?
On the other hand, I'm probably wrong about how the nipple is placed, as it should sit a little higher up on the chest, and point more upward.
(The G.B.B.T. (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,4729.msg302471.html#msg302471) seems to agree with both points.)
([Edit:] I googled around for about 20 seconds and managed to find this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hyiq9suWWQ& [NSFW] Mature Themes and Cartoon Nudity
Worth consideration.)
Anyway... I ought to do some sketching to practice drawing boobs when they're being pushed around.
Errata:
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 07:57:31 AM
And if you get someone to stand in that position for you, you'll see that it's not possible to...
Scuse me. *goes and gets his wife to stand in that position*
Yeah.
That had to be the biggest WTF moment I've had on this board.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 09:40:35 AM
Er, yes. Although, to be scrupulously fair, the body you've drawn is rather heavier-set than Emeline.
Since you mentioned it... as far as I can make out Emelinés waistline is almost equal to her hat size. I wonder if it's ever noticeable, since her bust blocks the view from the front and her wings usually block the view from behind.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 09:40:35 AM
As for sagginess, I would expect, if they're fake, for them to be perkier than would normally be possible.
I could say more on this, but it's something that I wanted to bring up further on in the comic. For what it's worth; truth is beauty, and what is truthful is not always what is factual.
And to close;
"Our eyes instinctively seek out breasts from the moment we enter the world. This does not make them any easier to draw."
- Sarah Simblet,
Anatomy for the Artist
There's not really much here I can comment on, except for this little tidbit;
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 08:24:44 PM
I don't like to draw breasts as hemispheres, nor do I like to place them high on the chest. I see a lot of artists do that, and it drives me up the wall: it's like they're floating. As I understand it, they should only look like that if the figure is wearing a pushup bra, or corset. Am I wrong on this?
I'd say that's an artistic license + attraction thing. They are more prominent/noticeable and therefore more "desireable" if they are high up (and, if closely inspected, seem as if they defy gravity. I'd say that's simply a side-effect.)
At least, that's the way it is to me. I can't say I'm speaking for anyone else... :B
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on November 07, 2009, 08:46:38 PM
There's not really much here I can comment on, except for this little tidbit;
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 08:24:44 PM
I don't like to draw breasts as hemispheres, nor do I like to place them high on the chest. I see a lot of artists do that, and it drives me up the wall: it's like they're floating. As I understand it, they should only look like that if the figure is wearing a pushup bra, or corset. Am I wrong on this?
I'd say that's an artistic license + attraction thing. They are more prominent/noticeable and therefore more "desireable" if they are high up (and, if closely inspected, seem as if they defy gravity. I'd say that's simply a side-effect.)
At least, that's the way it is to me. I can't say I'm speaking for anyone else... :B
this is my personal opinion, and a somewhat jaded one at that (from years of dealing with keenspace/comicgen forumites), that "artistic license" only really applies if one is capable of more than one "style".
I know you know this, WF, so forgive me for saying it, or even if the tone's somewhat blunt, it's not meant to be that way (it's just hard to express it in any other fashion), but Breasts, by physical definition, are sacks of fat, gravity affects them, anything firm affects them, they'll try to conform to whatever's resisting their free movement. In other words: boobs are squishy and soft. :3
while i'm at it, this is more an observation than a nitpick, and i'm willing to bet it's "narrative causality" ("it's like this because i said so"), but Theonor's constantly color/form-shifting wings is kind of distracting and may look like you haven't settled on a design/color scheme for him from the perspective of a new reader, it is kinda offputting, however.
Nitpicks aside, you are showing that you're learning things, ontop of this is patience, and it's showing in your linework.
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 08:24:44 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 07:57:31 AM
I'm not sure what the right arty words are for what I'm trying to say, here.
You know... feedback doesn't always need to be technical. Most of the technical stuff I can look up in guides and reference books, or I can google for reference images, or I can look at other peoples work and see what they do. What I can't do is take a look at my own art, and judge what's working and what isn't. I'm too close to it, so I can't see the forrest for the trees. So, even just hearing that something looks off is very useful.
True. My point was, however, that I might not be as clear in my description as I was attempting to manage; hence, queries or discussion were welcome, and I'd do my best to clarify the confusion.
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 08:24:44 PM
You're right about one thing, boxy. I intended the lower arm in panel 2 to be just resting under the bust, not actually pushing it up, but her bicep would have to be about 50% longer then it should be to do that. Also, if her bust overlaps her arms when seen from the front, it would be impossible for the raised arm *not* to push her breast aside. I must have been lazy when I figured out the pose.
Just one thing? Man, I was trying for three... ;-]
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 08:24:44 PM
I did some sketching this afternoon. About three pages, but I could use feeback on these two in particular:
Pinup (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/emelinepinup.png) [NSFW: Nudity]
The biceps length thing is really noticeable. I think the raised arm-and-boob came out pretty well, though. I think the nip on the right should be higher, though, since she has her back arched and the view has a bit of up shot to it.
No, I think you got it about right.
It's difficult to tell from the sketch, of course, due to multiple lines; if it were inked, it might be easier to tell precisely where the lines were supposed to go, but it certainly looks about right. And, if I might so express myself, this pair look a lot more realistic than the pair on the comic; that pair make me sidle away, because not only are they fake, but they're disturbingly so. This pair, on the other hand, look a lot more realistic.
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 08:24:44 PM
Profile (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/images/sketches/emelineprofile.png)[NSFW: Nudity]
This is how I imagine Emmie's breasts ought to be shaped, compared to Turn's sketchs. The top has a gentle slope and the underside is roundly curved, and the majority of the mass is below the armpit.
I don't like to draw breasts as hemispheres, nor do I like to place them high on the chest. I see a lot of artists do that, and it drives me up the wall: it's like they're floating. As I understand it, they should only look like that if the figure is wearing a pushup bra, or corset. Am I wrong on this?
On the other hand, I'm probably wrong about how the nipple is placed, as it should sit a little higher up on the chest, and point more upward.
I think you're getting there, now. The sketches are a lot closer to realistic than the strip, if that helps; I don't know if the time spent is something you can do on a regular basis, though...
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 08:24:44 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 07:57:31 AM
And if you get someone to stand in that position for you, you'll see that it's not possible to...
Scuse me. *goes and gets his wife to stand in that position*
Yeah.
That had to be the biggest WTF moment I've had on this board.
Wot? I had a query, I went and asked my wife to assist me with it. She obliged, I came back and reported the results.
Seems perfectly sane to me...
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 07, 2009, 08:24:44 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 07, 2009, 09:40:35 AM
As for sagginess, I would expect, if they're fake, for them to be perkier than would normally be possible.
I could say more on this, but it's something that I wanted to bring up further on in the comic. For what it's worth; truth is beauty, and what is truthful is not always what is factual.
Heh. No, I don't expect hers to be real... but, if she were faking it, as I understand it many Succubi do, then I'd expect her to get it a lot more right.
... which gently suggests that while she might have it right, the artist might be needing some work. Which is why we find ourselves here, discussing this wonderfully distracting subject... ;-]
I don't want to argue about style... if only because I agree with Turnsky. I would like to mention my own thoughts on the matter, however, if only for the fact that I think it's worth consideration.
Quote from: Turnsky on November 08, 2009, 12:11:33 AM
this is my personal opinion, and a somewhat jaded one at that (from years of dealing with keenspace/comicgen forumites), that "artistic license" only really applies if one is capable of more than one "style"...
Using "style" in defence is like pleading insanity in court. You still did what you did, and you're off the hook, but that doesn't mean you were right to do it, and you're certainly not going get any respect for it.
My opinion on style is that the fundamentals have to come first. Learn the rules, then learn how to break them. I try to work with real human and animal anatomy, and if I ever cite "style" (EG: nipples) as a defence, it's because of how I chose to combine the two elements. Not to excuse a fault with my skills. But in the end, I know
I don't know enough of the rules to get away with doing whatever I want.
Quote from: Turnsky on November 08, 2009, 12:11:33 AM
...Theonor's constantly color/form-shifting wings is kind of distracting...
This is where I wont use "style" as a defence. Here I am, trying to do something with Theo's wings, and I'm well within my rights to do whatever I want with my characters and my art. But if what I'm doing looks like crap, I can do one of three things: Do it anyway, stop doing it, or find a way to do it better.
Which is how "style" ends up getting most abused. People are using individualism as an excuse to do something poorly. And they have the right to. But that doesn't mean anyone else will like it.
But that's what feedback is for. If people don't like it, change it. That might mean taking someone's suggestions, or ignoring all the advice and finding a new way independently, but it still means something has to change.
I think I'm going to keep the color-shifting element, but I need to start picking better colors. Also, I need to draw his wings more consistently. They're not supposed to change in shape at all... except for the bat wing thing. I do have a pretty solid definition as to how and when the wings change in shape and color, though. Strong feelings are higher saturation, I know when the bat wings come out, and there's a logic behind there being two colors for the feathered wings.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 08, 2009, 03:33:01 PM
... which gently suggests that while she might have it right, the artist might be needing some work.
Very true. But there's more to Emeline's appearance then simply my (in)ability to draw her: Emeliné has made her bust just a touch saggy, but I've been drawing it
too saggy, I guess.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on November 08, 2009, 03:33:01 PM
The sketches are a lot closer to realistic than the strip, if that helps; don't know if the time spent is something you can do on a regular basis, though...
I don't have a full time job. I get some petty cash from my parents for some odd work, and I bum a room in my brother's apartment. Every day, I walk down to a cafe or fast food place, and sketch/draw/ink for 5-6 hours in the afternoon. I'm kind of bohemian, I guess: live cheap, make art. Time is pretty much the one thing I
do have.
Quote from: WhiteFox on November 09, 2009, 07:49:58 PM
Quote from: Turnsky on November 08, 2009, 12:11:33 AM
...Theonor's constantly color/form-shifting wings is kind of distracting...
This is where I wont use "style" as a defence. Here I am, trying to do something with Theo's wings, and I'm well within my rights to do whatever I want with my characters and my art. But if what I'm doing looks like crap, I can do one of three things: Do it anyway, stop doing it, or find a way to do it better.
Which is how "style" ends up getting most abused. People are using individualism as an excuse to do something poorly. And they have the right to. But that doesn't mean anyone else will like it.
But that's what feedback is for. If people don't like it, change it. That might mean taking someone's suggestions, or ignoring all the advice and finding a new way independently, but it still means something has to change.
I think I'm going to keep the color-shifting element, but I need to start picking better colors. Also, I need to draw his wings more consistently. They're not supposed to change in shape at all... except for the bat wing thing. I do have a pretty solid definition as to how and when the wings change in shape and color, though. Strong feelings are higher saturation, I know when the bat wings come out, and there's a logic behind there being two colors for the feathered wings.
[/quote]
hence why i cited the use of "narrative causality" since you have potentially a storyline element behind it, and not so much a "style" element as you say.
DSOF #52 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=today)
Two months since my last page. Aargh. I won't bore you with the details, but having to move out of an apartment can really become an ordeal.
The comic is a bit of a mess, since I've been working on it in... well, less then ideal conditions. Somehow, I lost 1/2 an inch of page height. Don't know how that happened, but it isn't detrimental to the page overall so I'm not going to sweat it.
Critique and comments appreciated, as usual.
Can it be...finally a new DSOF?!?
...Apparently not. The comic won't load for some reason, all I'm getting is a little white box with a red X :B Curse my apparently-crappy computer setup.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on December 27, 2009, 07:37:52 PMThe comic won't load for some reason, all I'm getting is a little white box with a red X
Try it now.
Can anyone else see the comic?
Got it OK.
Hmm, Felix/Felicia is just not having any luck at all, is she? Nice to see Emmie is actually competent at looking after herself.
Good to hear you're settled in enough to restart the strip. I remember how long it took to get things back to what passes for normal the last time we moved.
ah yes, that worked.
Heh. Felix/cia needs to learn a little thing called "subtlety"...
Quote from: WhiteFox on December 27, 2009, 08:32:25 PM
Try it now.
Can anyone else see the comic?
It worked fine for me, both before and after. Or, at least, when I first looked, and then when you asked just now...
So, I don't get it. Did Felixia teleport in just as Jade and Theo teleported out?
Quote from: ChaosMageX on December 29, 2009, 02:31:32 PM
So, I don't get it. Did Felixia teleport in just as Jade and Theo teleported out?
Well, you see, I employed an ancient writing technique known as "Character Appears Suddenly out of Nowhere."
It'll be explained. In the comic. Later.
Speaking of which;
DSOF #53 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=53): (The title is an in-joke.)
Evidently, all the work I did trying to better my BG's was wasted on architecture but effective for forestry. As time intensive as the page was, it was fun to draw. The only reason I stopped, I think, was that I learned enough colouring this page that wanted to start drawing #54. And, ya' know, I was a week late.
Sometimes I wonder if people notice the little details I put in the comic, like the lizards in panel #3.
Anyway, Comments and critique appreciated. Especially this time around.
[EDIT, PS:] Bonus points to whoever can guess which comic author I got the idea of a winged frog from. Hint: There were no raccoons in the scene, but Samuel Clemmens was.
John Peters has flying frogs in Gypsy!
I do appreciate attention to detail. Unfortunately, my laptop is woefully inadequate when it comes to screen resolution.
I am thoroughly enjoying the story and the art. One of the benefits I did not know that came with being a denizen of CMF was the introduction to other talent.
I get lucky like that, sometimes.
Heh. I guess Oggy the bog dragon doesn't count, then.
Quote from: proeliator bradypodidae on January 07, 2010, 09:11:53 PM
John Peters has flying frogs in Gypsy!
I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few instances of flying frogs in ficiton, but there is one particular author I have in mind. Well, one particular scene of one particular comic book series by one particular author. Chances are it's far to obscure for anyone to recognize.
Further hint: Samuel was talking to the Emperor of the United States in said scene. Neither of them are the main characters in the series.
Quote from: proeliator bradypodidae on January 07, 2010, 09:11:53 PM
I am thoroughly enjoying the story and the art.
Glad you're enjoying the show. Thank you for watching.
Quote from: proeliator bradypodidae on January 07, 2010, 09:11:53 PM
One of the benefits I did not know that came with being a denizen of CMF was the introduction to other talent.
:U {!)
Talent? Me? When did that happen?!
llearch: Any other guesses, then?
I enjoy American history, particularly the Civil War, and the Emperor of the United States struck a bell; California 1859. So I cheated and googled, finding an interesting DC comic. Since I did cheat, I will say no more in case someone more reputable wishes to take a guess.
Of course, the safe bets are I'm way off base and completely wrong.
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 08, 2010, 06:20:43 PM
llearch: Any other guesses, then?
Nothing comes to mind.
Quote from: proeliator bradypodidae on January 08, 2010, 07:19:27 PM
So I cheated and googled, finding an interesting DC comic. Since I did cheat, I will say no more in case someone more reputable wishes to take a guess.
Of course, the safe bets are I'm way off base and completely wrong.
I don't call that cheating, that's investigating a lead. So feel free to guess.
The Emperor is probably more obscure then the book, for that matter.
It
is an interesting series. There's a lot of history and mythology in it too, if you like that sort of thing.
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 07, 2010, 08:34:16 PM
[EDIT, PS:] Bonus points to whoever can guess which comic author I got the idea of a winged frog from. Hint: There were no raccoons in the scene, but Samuel Clemmens was.
Sandman, Neil Gaiman?
Sandman is not what I'd call obscure.
Anything but.
Nucking futz, but not obscure.
Sandman is indeed the correct answer.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 09, 2010, 07:10:02 PM
Sandman is not what I'd call obscure.
Nucking futz, but not obscure.
No one I mention it to ever knows the series. Well, a scant few, but always in a I've-herd-of-it-but-haven't-read-it sort of way. Or they're over 50, and read it a long time ago.
Besides, even if the series is only somewhat obscure, the reference certainly was.
I should get back to drawing comics instead of geeking out, though, shouldn't I?
Took me long enough...
DSOF #54 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=54)
Comic production has been complicated by some brand new hardware; I've replaced my aging eMac with a MacMini. I'm satisfied with the computer, but the (cheap and old) LCD monitor I'm now using has me worried. The colour balance is completely different, and the comic looks completely different. Jade's robe, for example is supposed to be dark crimson and gold. Now it's more of a much lighter pure red, and the yellow is much colder.
There's a lot of discrepancies in the shading, too. The contrast of pg.53's background plants, rocks, and dirt are much higher, which makes them pop out a lot more then I'd like. There are also quite a few places where the shading looks shoddier and hasty, particularly on the characters, and places where there doesn't seem to be any shading at all.
So now I have to figure out if I need a new monitor, or if I have to overhaul all my colour pallets. Aargh. Spite. Wrath. Muffins. I'll have to look at the comic on some other peoples monitors and compare.
Anyway... critique and comments appreciated.
The MacOS has its own internal colour management. Are you sure both machines are running the same colour profile?
As for the comic, yes, Theo seemed to be a little bit carried away with his vision there.
Quote from: Tapewolf on January 23, 2010, 03:49:40 PM
The MacOS has its own internal colour management. Are you sure both machines are running the same colour profile?
I went through colour calibration twice. Minor improvement.
The old monitor was a flat-screen CRT. This "new" one is an Acer LCD widescreen with a crappy viewing angle that my parents had lying around. About a third of the screen is notably darker then the rest.
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 23, 2010, 05:20:03 PM
The old monitor was a flat-screen CRT. This "new" one is an Acer LCD widescreen with a crappy viewing angle that my parents had lying around. About a third of the screen is notably darker then the rest.
Ah.
I read it that you had kept the same monitor and the new PC had a different colour temperature. What you are describing is fairly normal for switching to LCD, which is why I haven't.
The LCD screen I do have has taken on a yellow hue for reasons unknown to me - my guess is that the screen has gone that way due to age. It was about 3 years old when it started to do that.
EDIT:
Also, bear in mind that most LCD monitors can only display 262144 colours, which won't help you. If you can let me know the model I'll see if I can find out whether it's a 6-bit or 8-bit display.
Not enough time to find a new figurehead. Damn, from how he's talking, it sounds like what Theo really needs for his plan to succeed is a puppet, someone who will play the part of his figurehead, except do whatever he says.
There are several ways to do that, including compensation, trickery, and, since he comes from a clan skilled in psionics, mind control as well. :mwaha
And regarding your new monitor, I can agree that LCD monitors just generally suck, but I'm not about to go back to bulky CRTs when I eventually attempt to do digital coloring again.
I can't help but wonder how well a plasma screen TV would work as a computer monitor through an HDMI port. The Panasonic Viera TVs are the best value, many offering 1080p at a reasonable price, and they definitely have a much sharper picture than LCD screens, and true black color.
The one thing I haven't tested is their viewing angle, but I vaguely remember walking through the aisle and their picture quality not changing as I approached them.
He could well be talking to his figurehead.
On the other hand, if he takes the role himself, there's a certain risk...
Quote from: ChaosMageX on January 23, 2010, 06:36:56 PM
I can't help but wonder how well a plasma screen TV would work as a computer monitor through an HDMI port.
I haven't seen one under 32". That's far too big to be practical as a computer display. Which is a shame, because the technology looks good.
Well, you should also consider the "burn-in" damage that happenswhen you display static image on a screen for long time. And in computer usage you surely will have some static parts on the screen, for example most of the toolbars.
Plasmas were originally extremely susceptible to it, and while nowadays the effect is "minimized", I have no idea how far detached from reality that marketing point is.
Quote from: ChaosMageX on January 23, 2010, 06:36:56 PM
Not enough time to find a new figurehead. Damn, from how he's talking, it sounds like what Theo really needs for his plan to succeed is a puppet, someone who will play the part of his figurehead, except do whatever he says.
Seeing as how the figurehead is being set up to be a fall guy, or "adventurer fodder", I doubt Theo would find many volunteers. That being the case, the figurehead mustn't realize he's a figurehead or he might rat out Theo's to save his own hide when things hit the fan. Complicating things further is that not only does the figurehead have to remain ignorant, but so does everyone else in the organization.
The best puppets can't see their own strings.
I was going to mention this in the comic, but there wasn't enough room on the page.
Quote from: ChaosMageX on January 23, 2010, 06:36:56 PM
There are several ways to do that, including compensation, trickery, and, since he comes from a clan skilled in psionics, mind control as well. :mwaha
Wow, someone actually remembered that tidbit about the psionics. Cool.
Theonors psionics, and Clan Aphelals as a whole, are somewhat akin to brainwashing or mental conditioning; over an extended period of time, the effects may break down or become unreliable. Extensive application may make the subject mentally unstable.
The brain is not simply a computer that can be programmed, so precise control is nearly impossible to achieve. Theo can bury or alter memories, but not destroy them. He can make suggestions, but not give commands. The more you push the mind, the sooner it will snap back or just plain snap. Since Theo's projects can have a timeline measured in decades, and politics can be a delicate thing, psionic manipulation is not a long term solution.
Here's a freebie for being observant, though: not all of Theo's psionic abilites are restricted to mental manipulation. They're not simply an extension of a 'Cubi's natural empathic powers (Though I like to think Theo has a stronger natural aptitiude with then most 'Cubi).
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 23, 2010, 07:05:26 PM
He could well be talking to his figurehead.
Ooh. I hadn't considered that one.
Jade, however, wouldn't make a very good candidate for a variety of reasons. Reasons which are, actually, kind of central to the comic, so I'm not going to cover them in depth.
I will say that Theo needs three things in a figurehead: they have to know the game of politics. Specifically, 1) they have to know the rules of the game, 2) they have to be willing to play it, and 3) they have to be very bad at it. Jade has none of these traits. Actually, she's kind of the opposite.
Quote from: hapless on January 23, 2010, 11:02:29 PM
Well, you should also consider the "burn-in" damage that happenswhen you display static image on a screen for long time. And in computer usage you surely will have some static parts on the screen, for example most of the toolbars.
It's not much of a problem these days, as long as you have a screen saver of some sort and put your computer to sleep when you're not using it. As far as I know, that is.
Quote from: Tapewolf on January 23, 2010, 05:27:33 PM
Also, bear in mind that most LCD monitors can only display 262144 colours, which won't help you. If you can let me know the model I'll see if I can find out whether it's a 6-bit or 8-bit display.
An Acer AL1716W. I googled around a bit for documentation, but I didn't find anything useful. Also: Acer = teh sucjk.
Quote from: ChaosMageX on January 23, 2010, 06:36:56 PM
And regarding your new monitor, I can agree that LCD monitors just generally suck, but I'm not about to go back to bulky CRTs when I eventually attempt to do digital coloring again.
Actually, my brother has a nice one; a Samsung 216BW. The blacks are strong, and the viewing angle is remarkably wide (he bought it to replace the one I'm using now, incidentally). So I know there are decent LCD screens available. If I had the coin for it, I'd get one.
I took a look at my comic on his monitor, and there's the same difference in contrast. So it's not just my monitor, it's the colours I'm using. Cripes... my colouring is bad enough as it is, I really don't need this making it worse.
That's quite the odd look Theo's giving Jade in the last panel...
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 24, 2010, 12:30:26 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 23, 2010, 07:05:26 PM
He could well be talking to his figurehead.
Ooh. I hadn't considered that one.
Jade, however, wouldn't make a very good candidate for a variety of reasons. Reasons which are, actually, kind of central to the comic, so I'm not going to cover them in depth.
I will say that Theo needs three things in a figurehead: they have to know the game of politics. Specifically, 1) they have to know the rules of the game, 2) they have to be willing to play it, and 3) they have to be very bad at it. Jade has none of these traits. Actually, she's kind of the opposite.
Well, yes. I do believe that was the point I had in mind, but entirely forgot to add to my post. Whilst she might be a figurehead, I'm not sure she'd be a good one.
After all, as you say, she can see the strings... and, at least some of the time, won't respond to them. Not good in a figurehead.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on January 24, 2010, 02:01:13 AM
That's quite the odd look Theo's giving Jade in the last panel...
I was going for a mix of confusion, injury, and irritation. Dunno if it worked.
I'm not entirely sure but I think your monitor uses a 6-bit system with dithering. If you plan on doing anything involving colouring you probably should look for a monitor that can handle the full 8 bits per channel (i.e 24-bits total rather than 18 bits)
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 24, 2010, 11:42:31 AM
I was going for a mix of confusion, injury, and irritation. Dunno if it worked.
It did :)
DSOF #55 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=55)
This page just refuses to die.
(Much blithering to follow. Be warned.)
This has got to be the worst time I've ever had trying to finish a comic. I've had longer delays, but those were mostly artist blocks and miscellaneous demoralization. I know how to deal with those. This one was... well...
1) Had to migrate to a new computer.
1b) Had to get my scanner to work with new computer.
1c) Ditto my Waccom Tablet.
2) Had to buy a new monitor for new computer, and fuss with settings. Still fussing.
3) Modified my colouring techniques (added a small but significant step) half way through making the comic.
3b) Had to revamp Jade and Theo's colour sheets. Same colours, different format.
4) Nib of tablet pen finally wore down to the point where it had to be replaced. Spent a half a day looking for spare nib.
On top of the technical issues, the inks for this page came out sloppy, I spilled a drop of ink on panel five which prevented me from drawing a half decent background for it, I had a day of writers block right when Jade really needed to sound sagely, and I still think the colouring makes the comic an eyesore.
On the upside, I think the majority of the technical issues have been laid to rest, and the new colouring process is much more satisfactory. The inking on pg.56 is already done, and most of it isn't too bad looking , so I might actually update by Friday. Maybe. I'm starting to get the hang of economizing on backgrounds, which saves a fair bit of time. There was so much on page 54 that I just hated to add speech bubbles. These days I add the bubbles before colouring the background, and I'm mindful of which panels are going to be just full of text (IE, panel 4). Theres been a few little tricks I've picked up too, like taking advantage of opacity setting on the Paint Bucket tool (very useful for colour tinting Theo's wings).
Colour has to be my biggest problem right now. Not so much the process itself, mind you, but getting a decent pallet together. The first four panels of #55 are such a mess; why did I give Theo red and yellow wings while Jade was right behind him? Was giving Theo white arms really a good idea, since the rest of him and his outfit is so much darker? Distracting. Confusing. Hard to read the imagery. Too saturated. That sort of thing.
Anyway. Comments and critiques would be very much appreciated.
[Edit] Man, Theo's head came out so wonky in panel one...
Ummmm....
I think you want to re-check that link :B
*Fix'd*
I am having a fantastic day. Shiny.
Awwww. Jade showing some affection for Theo is so cute :3 I like how his headwings change color during that.
I'm also finding it interesting that, for once, it's the demon who's giving a lecture on caution.
For what it's worth, the colors look fine to me.
DSOF #56: You Know That's A Warning Sign. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=56)
And now, back to the funny.
I'm pretty happy with this page. Some of the drawing was a little off, but nothing I couldn't fix. The backgrounds are a little sparse, but I'm experimenting with the level of detail needed for them.
The modified colouring method works fast.
Comments appreciated, as usual.
besides being very amusing, there are a couple of things a really enjoy about this particular strip, Jade's expression in the fifth panel being somewhere, (at least from the way it looks for me) between thoughtful and mildly confused. The last panel is also quite amusing... though for some reason, i just keep seeing little text pop up... like in a zelda game *YOU GOT A ROCK* ~du-nah-nuh-nuhhhhh~
I know i don't post here too often, but felt that i'd throw in my 2 cents... along with a, keep up the good work.
Quote from: Basilisk on February 08, 2010, 12:13:29 AM
...Jade's expression in the fifth panel being somewhere, (at least from the way it looks for me) between thoughtful and mildly confused.
Did you notice her eyes were green? >:3
Quote from: Basilisk on February 08, 2010, 12:13:29 AM
I know i don't post here too often, but felt that i'd throw in my 2 cents... along with a, keep up the good work.
I plan to. Glad you're enjoying the show.
Anyone care to guess what just Jade is missing?
It contains trace amounts of uranium, and he's going to start building nuclear bombs?
The trace amounts of iron-oxide could be magnetic. Magnetite is often found in sand and the sedimentary rock formed from sand.
Also, why are Jade's eyes green in panel 5?
Quote from: ChaosMageX on February 12, 2010, 04:34:48 PM
Also, why are Jade's eyes green in panel 5?
I'm guessing that she was using some sort of 'second sight' or magic to inspect the object Theo gave her, and Theo is reacting to the fact that something special about the object cannot be detected by someone with 'second sight' or whatever.
What the special property of the object might be, I haven't a clue. Yet.
Quote from: proeliator bradypodidae on February 12, 2010, 05:04:58 PM
Quote from: ChaosMageX on February 12, 2010, 04:34:48 PM
Also, why are Jade's eyes green in panel 5?
I'm guessing that she was using some sort of 'second sight' or magic to inspect the object Theo gave her, and Theo is reacting to the fact that something special about the object cannot be detected by someone with 'second sight' or whatever.
True. This isn't the first time Jade has had green eyes in the comic, btw.
Quote from: ChaosMageX on February 12, 2010, 04:34:48 PM
The trace amounts of iron-oxide could be magnetic. Magnetite is often found in sand and the sedimentary rock formed from sand.
Warmer, and not a bad guess, but it's not the iron that Theo's interested in.
Quote from: WhiteFox on February 12, 2010, 06:06:55 PM
Quote from: ChaosMageX on February 12, 2010, 04:34:48 PM
The trace amounts of iron-oxide could be magnetic. Magnetite is often found in sand and the sedimentary rock formed from sand.
Warmer, and not a bad guess, but it's not the iron that Theo's interested in.
Hmmm...I'm getting warmer. Perhaps it could be some sort of piezoelectric property that Theo desires?
Flint is a form of cryptocrystalline quartz that is used to scrap off and heat up bits of steel to create sparks.
Calcite can be phosphorescent and can absorb light radiation and slowly re-emit it, or fluorescent and immediately re-emit the light radiation after absorbing it. Calcite has many other unique optical properties, depending on its grain boundaries.
And clay displays plasticity when wet, and can be fired in a kiln to become ceramic, which can be used for a variety of purposes.
I could tell you more if I was a petroleum major and had to study geology, but unfortunately not, so most of my info is from the internet.
ChaosMageX: Looking at the clues will get you so far... consider the whole. "Forrest for the trees", so to speak.
New comic:
DSOF #57: So, what, you got something against thatch? (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/archive.php?comic=57)
I showed #56 to a friend, and he said that the shading made it look like a videogame from the early ninties. I was all like, "Dangit, he's right..." Working on that.
To do the leaves in panel one and four I filled in a light green background, and used my tablet to stipple in the leaves. All of them. Manually. And then went over all of it again with a darker green. I think it turned out okay.
Ferns are fun to draw. Add those to the list of plants I can use to fill backgrounds.
TMG suggested I add some sheaves of light to the backgrounds. Still experimenting on a way to do that.
Jade's wings are shaded, finally. I've been trying to work that out for months now. Though only now do I notice that she's missing one. Fffuuu-!
Comments, as usual, would be appreciated.
I am reminded of the King of the Swamp Castle in Monty Python's Holy Grail, "When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England."
That rock Theo showed Jade wouldn't happen to be manufactured, would it?
Almost by definition, a dungeon is underground, so the prospect of sinking into the swamp isn't necessarily disaster :P
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on February 13, 2010, 08:19:28 AM
Almost by definition, a dungeon is underground, so the prospect of sinking into the swamp isn't necessarily disaster :P
The dungeons filling with swamp water is, though. You'd need some serious pumping technology to keep it reasonably dry.
Well, in the latest page, you misspelled architect in panel one.
And in the context of their surrounding and the significance of that rock, taking into account the latest page as well, I think Theo may be intending to use the materials of that rock as his primary building material.
The fact that it's just ordinary rock with no previous metaphysical or spiritual properties means that it may be easier to apply those properties to it once the building has been constructed.
However, building in or near a swamp is never a good idea. Not only the ground generally unstable, but the building itself harms the environment by reducing the swamp's ability to filter water and act as a breakwater for flash flooding.
Also, the way Theo and his uncle are using their wing tentacles to scale the trees is very creative.
If there's one thing I've always admired about your comics, it's your creativity in coming up with unique takes on aspects of the DMFA universe, starting with Zu. The idea of a parrot warp-aci that can record memories is quite interesting.
Quote from: proeliator bradypodidae on February 12, 2010, 10:00:17 PM
I am reminded of the King of the Swamp Castle in Monty Python's Holy Grail, "When I first came here, this was all swamp.
That particular scene came to mind at least a hundred times while I was drawing this page. :)
I'm in the SCA; almost everyone I know can quote about 3/4ths of the movie.
Quote from: Corgatha Taldorthar on February 13, 2010, 08:19:28 AM
Almost by definition, a dungeon is underground, so the prospect of sinking into the swamp isn't necessarily disaster :P
Almost? A dungeon, by definition, is an underground prison. Typically, part of a castle. In DSOF, though, the term refers to any defensive structure where Creatures are up to no good. So, they're not necessarily underground.
Quote from: !KCA on February 13, 2010, 03:52:34 AM
That rock Theo showed Jade wouldn't happen to be manufactured, would it?
The rock is not artificial. It's not mentioned, but Jade would have been able to tell if it had been.
Quote from: ChaosMageX on February 13, 2010, 02:23:56 PM
And in the context of their surrounding and the significance of that rock, taking into account the latest page as well, I think Theo may be intending to use the materials of that rock as his primary building material.
The fact that it's just ordinary rock with no previous metaphysical or spiritual properties means that it may be easier to apply those properties to it once the building has been constructed.
I'd call that 2/3rds of a complete answer.
Quote from: ChaosMageX on February 13, 2010, 02:23:56 PM
Also, the way Theo and his uncle are using their wing tentacles to scale the trees is very creative.
If there's one thing I've always admired about your comics, it's your creativity in coming up with unique takes on aspects of the DMFA universe, starting with Zu. The idea of a parrot warp-aci that can record memories is quite interesting.
This, in a nutshell, is half the reason I started doing comics. Niven is one of my influences, and a lot of his stories examined... interesting results and applications of technology and magic. Even mundane or apparently simple things.
All of the Warp-Aci in the comic, so far, have unique qualities. Zu has eidetic memory, which makes him an effective and secure messenger. You have to be a mind reader to receive the message, and it plays back quite accurately. To intercept the message, one would have to capture Zu, who can teleport at will, and mind-rip him, which is not a simple affair. The offset of this trait is that although his memory is excellent, Zu is otherwise mentally sluggish.
Wynk and Re's trait has appeared in the comic, but hasn't been specifically discussed. Ntpxl's hasn't come up. Yet.
Quote from: WhiteFox on February 13, 2010, 04:38:36 PM
Quote from: ChaosMageX on February 13, 2010, 02:23:56 PM
And in the context of their surrounding and the significance of that rock, taking into account the latest page as well, I think Theo may be intending to use the materials of that rock as his primary building material.
The fact that it's just ordinary rock with no previous metaphysical or spiritual properties means that it may be easier to apply those properties to it once the building has been constructed.
I'd call that 2/3rds of a complete answer.
The swamp's. . .a quarry?
Incidentally, I like the effect of Theo copying his uncle's wings.
Whitefox, after stalking your topic for a while I've finally decided to bite the bullet and tell you what I think. I've been hesitating because you've helped out on my site and this is going to sound harsh.
One: the links on http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/flbad.html are broken, especially the one for the DSOF comic. If you don't have anything for the link to go to, you're probably better off removing the link. Otherwise, it just feels incomplete.
Two: For some time, I couldn't place what kept throwing me off on your art. I mean, the characters look good, and the backgrounds are detailed, but something was off. The first is more of a nitpick, really. The fact that Theo's hands are white, but his face is brown and it's throwing me off. If he's wearing cloves, his arms and hands should reflect that with being slightly thicker of having lines/creases on them.
Three: Jade's tail is consistently missing from the dress. For most creatures with a long tail, it's used for balance. I'm aware that having wings kinda offsets that, but it looks weird for a cat-based creature to be wandering around without their tail exposed. Especially a cat-based creature. You're hindering her sexiness! Mwrowr! (Think before you ask. You probably don't wanna know...)
Four: The more serious part is the wings. I'm trying to to be gentle here, but the wings look like "extras" or even like an afterthought. I'm saying this because the dragon/bat-shaped kind have a large amount of straight lines in them, along with the bird-shaped ones. I'd look up a few tutorials via google and practice a bit to define your style.
Five: I'm not sure what your affiliation with northernelectric.ca is... I'm aware that domain parking and webhosting can be somewhat costly to start up. (Uhm... How much did I pay for all my Dotster crap initially? I know it was $30US initially, plus $5.75 monthly for the hosting... But I forget how much the domain name itself cost...) And, I'm unsure where you want to go with the comic.
EDIT: Six has been removed because I'm a moron.
Quote from: Drayco84 on February 28, 2010, 10:26:55 PM
Whitefox, after stalking your topic for a while I've finally decided to bite the bullet and tell you what I think. I've been hesitating because you've helped out on my site and this is going to sound harsh.
I'll keep that in mind.
Honestly, though, I like to hear what people think, and an honest opinion is always welcome.
If you can't express that opinion without sounding harsh, you might want to think twice about posting it. I did three re-writes when I posted in your topic.
Quote from: Drayco84 on February 28, 2010, 10:26:55 PM
One: the links on [insert URL here] are broken, especially the one for the DSOF comic. If you don't have anything for the link to go to, you're probably better off removing the link. Otherwise, it just feels incomplete.
I don't use the FlBAD site. It's incomplete because I didn't complete it. I also don't use or link to it, so I don't know how you got to it, and I haven't asked for feedback on it in probably a year, so I don't know why we're talking about it at all.
Quote from: Drayco84 on February 28, 2010, 10:26:55 PM
Two: For some time, I couldn't place what kept throwing me off on your art. I mean, the characters look good, and the backgrounds are detailed, but something was off. The first is more of a nitpick, really. The fact that Theo's hands are white, but his face is brown and it's throwing me off. If he's wearing cloves, his arms and hands should reflect that with being slightly thicker of having lines/creases on them.
Theonor's head, shoulders, and spine are brown, and the rest of his body is white. (If you're wondering, he's a capped fancy-rat.) The only time you see this is in the first comic.
By the way, if you think they look good, you could at least say what you do like about them. That's not just for my feelings, either; I have to know what I'm doing right if I'm going to keep on doing it.
Quote from: Drayco84 on February 28, 2010, 10:26:55 PM
Three: Jade's tail is consistently missing from the dress...
I have a hard time remembering all the details and features on a character, and not just Jade. Wings, horns, ears, head-wings, accessories, and markings get left out on a frequency that borders on incompetence (especially Theonor). These days, I have an editing checklist and more definitive character sheets, but I still tend to forget details. It's on my hit-list for things to fix.
By the way; Felix has never had a tail. That's deliberate.
Quote from: Drayco84 on February 28, 2010, 10:26:55 PM
Four: The more serious part is the wings...
... I'd look up a few tutorials via google and practice a bit to define your style.
Mind your tone, please.
Wings are hard to draw. I have over two hundred reference images, several encyclopedias and coffee table books, and have on occasion sat in a
pet shop with a
sketch book doing
life studies. So I've already done a heck of a lot more then google a few tutorials.
I do not draw stylized features, which is what most guides will give you. It's easy to draw stylized wings from two or three angles, but if I want to be flexible with poses (for expression or action), this is just not sufficient. Guides that tell you how to draw realistic wings either don't explain many different poses, don't discuss different wing shapes (Felix has green raven wings, Theonor has finches wings. Emeline's are based on a mix of a seagull and a great frigate bird), or tell you how to set them on a person's back. Quite often, wings I draw do end up being tacked on; if I can't figure out the right way to draw them, I have to fudge it.
Still... I appreciate the observation. I won't know if I'm doing wings right or not unless people tell me what they think of them.
Quote from: Drayco84 on February 28, 2010, 10:26:55 PM
Five: I'm not sure what your affiliation with northernelectric.ca is...
northernelectric.ca is my dad's space, and he lets me host there for free. I can't recall how much he pays for it, but it's like 15$ a year, or something.
As for where I'm going with the comic, I know exactly that. As for where I am now, I'm posting it to an art forum, hoping to get some feedback and that maybe someone will enjoy reading it. So far, I haven't needed more then a archive page for that.
What I don't know is why you're talking about my site and hosting. I haven't asked for feedback on those since... well, longer then I can remember. Except the current archive page, which you haven't said anything about.
Quote from: Drayco84 on February 28, 2010, 10:26:55 PM
Six: Who the frig is Cameron Rose and why is their resume linked to your index page? That is a MAJOR personal security risk and potential front door for credit fraud.
Again, please mind your tone. Cameron Rose would be friggin' me. By the way; it might be a better idea to notify someone of something like this over a private message, rather then bringing it up on a public forum.
QuoteI'll keep that in mind.
Honestly, though, I like to hear what people think, and an honest opinion is always welcome.
If you can't express that opinion without sounding harsh, you might want to think twice about posting it. I did three re-writes when I posted in your topic.
I'm hypersensitive to criticism, and since I
can't draw, any and all suggestions I make don't have any experience what-so-ever behind them. Thus, since I haven't been down that road, I'm aware that it's easy for me to make profoundly
stupid suggestions. And I still can't understand
why I thought I was fit to offer "help" in the first place... Although, it did take me about an hour or so to compose...
QuoteI don't use the FlBAD site. It's incomplete because I didn't complete it. I also don't use or link to it, so I don't know how you got to it, and I haven't asked for feedback on it in probably a year, so I don't know why we're talking about it at all.
Sorry, found it while looking through the root site. It seemed like it was hosting a few other things and I tend to look around. I also wanted more info on your webhost. Since it's moot, I'll drop it.
QuoteTheonor's head, shoulders, and spine are brown, and the rest of his body is white. (If you're wondering, he's a capped fancy-rat.) The only time you see this is in the first comic.
By the way, if you think they look good, you could at least say what you do like about them. That's not just for my feelings, either; I have to know what I'm doing right if I'm going to keep on doing it.
Ohhhhhh... Whoops. As for the things you do well, I'm referring to things like shading, muscle tone, the fact that you can see the grain of the bark on the trees. (And in the latest, those leave do look fairly realistic.) Sure, it looks kinda like a remade Sierra game, but I've seen worse. And since I can't draw, I just keep reminding myself that it'd look far worse if I tried.
QuoteBy the way; Felix has never had a tail. That's deliberate.
While I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday and I regularly view a large number of webcomics, I tend to easily forget names unless the comic uses it a lot. Heck, some days it's a wonder I remember my own. So, don't take this personally and I DON'T expect a response to this, but... Who's Felix, again?
QuoteMind your tone, please.
Wings are hard to draw. I have over two hundred reference images, several encyclopedias and coffee table books, and have on occasion sat in a pet shop with a sketch book doing life studies. So I've already done a heck of a lot more then google a few tutorials.
I do not draw stylized features, which is what most guides will give you. It's easy to draw stylized wings from two or three angles, but if I want to be flexible with poses (for expression or action), this is just not sufficient. Guides that tell you how to draw realistic wings either don't explain many different poses, don't discuss different wing shapes (Felix has green raven wings, Theonor has finches wings. Emeline's are based on a mix of a seagull and a great frigate bird), or tell you how to set them on a person's back. Quite often, wings I draw do end up being tacked on; if I can't figure out the right way to draw them, I have to fudge it.
Still... I appreciate the observation. I won't know if I'm doing wings right or not unless people tell me what they think of them.
I
tried! Dang, I tried! I had a hunch it was a weak point, artist's sunburn, and/or raw nerve and I tried to avoid sounding like a jerk. (That last line really blew it, which I see now...) If you've checked encyclopedias, then you obviously have a number of anatomical references. I'll STHU now.
Okay, I'm feeling less angry and up to continuing to make an ass of myself...
Quotenorthernelectric.ca is my dad's space, and he lets me host there for free. I can't recall how much he pays for it, but it's like 15$ a year, or something.
As for where I'm going with the comic, I know exactly that. As for where I am now, I'm posting it to an art forum, hoping to get some feedback and that maybe someone will enjoy reading it. So far, I haven't needed more then a archive page for that.
What I don't know is why you're talking about my site and hosting. I haven't asked for feedback on those since... well, longer then I can remember. Except the current archive page, which you haven't said anything about.
........ Okay, now I'm tempted to ask where your dad hosts at, but it's probably something special that not just anyone can get. (I already told you MY costs so... Yeah...) The only thing the current archives could
use is an archive index/page. But, since you use php instead of separate html pages like I do (Also known as the "I-hate-myself" way...) adding it later shouldn't be too hard. (I think...)
The First, prev., next, and today links work, and work well, while the background is pretty spiffy-looking. And by looking at the page source, I see... (o_O) Ah-hah! You use tables too! (Although, you may be trying to focus mainly on the comic and thus don't have time to try and learn CSS.) Tell me, did your page design process look anything like this? (Warning, some language.) As for me, I don't even know if my site works in IE... (Little hard to test when using Linux and your XP partition is virtually dead due to malware...)
http://www.i-marco.nl/weblog/images/breakdown.png (http://www.i-marco.nl/weblog/images/breakdown.png)
QuoteAgain, please mind your tone. Cameron Rose would be friggin' me. By the way; it might be a better idea to notify someone of something like this over a private message, rather then bringing it up on a public forum.
One: I dunno what I was thinking. It's not an alien concept for authors or artists to use a pen-name... Two, I should've just ran after Superman while screaming "CLAAAAAAAAARK! REMEMBER THAT YOU'RE VULNERABLE TO KRYPTONITE!" Because there's nothing like pointing out a potential security hazard by telling the WHOLE internet about it... Ugh...
EPIC fail for me... (Go ahead and bring on the jokes, I deserve 'em...)
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 01, 2010, 02:00:47 PM
QuoteBy the way; Felix has never had a tail. That's deliberate.
While I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday and I regularly view a large number of webcomics, I tend to easily forget names unless the comic uses it a lot. Heck, some days it's a wonder I remember my own. SO, don't takr this personally and I DON'T expect a response to this, but... Who's Felix, again?
He's the short one whom the comic focuses on.
(unless I'm wrong, which is entirely possible. In which case I expect WhiteFox to correct me, as he usually does.)
Felix/Felicia, the one spying on Theo for her clan and playing a school bully...
... if my memory's right.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 01, 2010, 02:00:47 PM
I'm hypersensitive to criticism, and since I can't draw, any and all suggestions I make don't have any experience what-so-ever behind them. Thus, since I haven't been down that road, I'm aware that it's easy for me to make profoundly stupid suggestions. And I still can't understand why I thought I was fit to offer "help" in the first place... Although, it did take me about an hour or so to compose...
I took three hours to write the response. :3
There's a few things I've learned about a critique. Criticism is hostile. A critique is excessively neutral. It's easy to confuse one for the other.
Really, a matter of tone. Using words like "frig", excessively apologizing for sounding harsh, and "talking down" (eg.:"I'd google a few tutorials") really isn't necessary.
Suggestions are actually not the most important part of feedback; it's the observations. That being the case, you don't need to be an artist to make observations. I wanna know what you think,
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 01, 2010, 02:00:47 PM
... Who's Felix, again?
hapless would be right.
Felix would be the gray cat, who almost got fried by Jade, ,mindscrewed by Theo, and pushed over by Emeline. If that doesn't ring a bell, Felix also switches genders on one or two occasions.
I have less then half a dozen characters. How hard can they be to keep track of?
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 01, 2010, 02:00:47 PM
I tried! Dang, I tried! I had a hunch it was a weak point, artist's sunburn, and/or raw nerve and I tried to avoid sounding like a jerk. (That last line really blew it, which I see now...)
It's really hard. I was a pretty big jerk when I started posting feedback here, till I figured out a few guidelines.
In the end, though, it is the effort that matters. I can tell you weren't trying to be mean, so you didn't blow it. The feedback was very good to know, too.
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 02, 2010, 12:55:39 PM
I have less then half a dozen characters. How hard can they be to keep track of?
How often are the names mentioned? Seriously?
I remember the chars, I just don't necessarily have the names attached correctly - at least partially my fault, being somewhat occupied with other things.
QuoteI took three hours to write the response. neko 2
There's a few things I've learned about a critique. Criticism is hostile. A critique is excessively neutral. It's easy to confuse one for the other.
Really, a matter of tone. Using words like "frig", excessively apologizing for sounding harsh, and "talking down" (eg.:"I'd google a few tutorials") really isn't necessary.
Suggestions are actually not the most important part of feedback; it's the observations. That being the case, you don't need to be an artist to make observations. I wanna know what you think,
To self: Learn the meaning of "tone" and how to use it.
As for what I think... I think I need to stop looking in the fridge for my cereal... (I'm not kidding, I did this earlier today... And no, I don't use milk on my cereal.)
Quotehapless would be right.
Felix would be the gray cat, who almost got fried by Jade, ,mindscrewed by Theo, and pushed over by Emeline. If that doesn't ring a bell, Felix also switches genders on one or two occasions.
I have less then half a dozen characters. How hard can they be to keep track of?
Oh! The one that's shaping up to be an antagonist, possibly a humorously incompetent one at that. I have to hide behind (In) boxes, but llearch has a point. The use of names is kinda rare, and without a cast page, it's harder for readers to associate a name with a character.
........................
And I -would- try to rack up a list of times that names are mentioned, but Firefox has suddenly decided to try and open the php script with Bluefish Editor. (Yet, it's not doing this to DMFA... The heck?!) And so is SeaMonkey... And so is Konqueror... (Installs Opera...) AND SO IS OPERA?!
Holy-AAAAAARGH! (Although in Konqueror and Opera's case, they're just not opening the php script and are instead trying to find some other program to open it with.) Great... Now I gotta find out what's going on with my system... I switched to Linux to AVOID garbage like this!Is anyone else having this problem, or just me?
QuoteIt's really hard. I was a pretty big jerk when I started posting feedback here, till I figured out a few guidelines.
In the end, though, it is the effort that matters. I can tell you weren't trying to be mean, so you didn't blow it. The feedback was very good to know, too.
*Exhales in relief.*
EDIT: I may have bad news... I tested out a php script on my own site http://dragonoftwilight.net/comments/comments.php (http://dragonoftwilight.net/comments/comments.php), which has worked quite well ever since I first got it working, and that's opening up normally as well. I prefer to WAIT until someone else reports the same problem before I would say that you might an issue with the server. AGAIN, since it's only me, it MAY NOT be the server. Or, it could ALSO just be that the server is just down for maintenance.
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 20:02:32 GMT
Server: Apache/2.2.13
Last-Modified: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:07:41 GMT
ETag: "363e4a9-10cd-46e8a45b6e940"
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 4301
Keep-Alive: timeout=5, max=100
Connection: Keep-Alive
Content-Type: application/x-httpd-php
Yeah, confirmed.
Seems that mod_php5 is unloaded for some reason.
hapless: I have no idea what any that means.
Regardless, my archive seems to no longer be working. Given the unprecedented amount of crap I've been through, I'm going to find a corner to sit in a corner somewhere and have a nice, quiet, complete breakdown.
Yikes...this does suck, man. Take whatever time you need to get things sorted out, we'll be here for you.
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 03, 2010, 10:21:40 PM
hapless: I have no idea what any that means.
It means the webserver no longer supports php.
If it's your webserver, then you have a problem you can fix. If not, you can ask the person who runs it why they no longer support php, and look at moving the whole lot off.
DSOF #58 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/comics/dsof58.jpg)
Not my best work, and long overdue. Comments and feedback appreciated regardless.
PHP still isn't working. Calls to the ISP are being made.
Almost ten years ago, I got out of high school. Once I got home, I took a one gallon jug filled with four years of leftover lunch money. I counted it all up, and had almost a hundred dollars. I went down town, and bought a scanner.
It's outlasted three computers, two Waccom tablets, four versions of Photoshop, a year at college, and five changes of residence. It was the first piece of computer hardware that I had ever bought for myself, and probably the best thing I got out of high school.
Last week it refused to turn on, and has shown no signs of life since.
I should be able to get a new one, but I don't think I'll ever be able to replace it.
Yeowch... Sucks about the scanner... For some bizarre reason, I've never had anything computer-related "die" on me... (Might have something to do with the fact that stuff gets replaced somewhat frequently.)
If you're looking to buy, check out Newegg, if only for their customer reviews. Read them carefully, do your research, and hopefully you won't get a defective unit shipped to you. (I've ordered two netbooks so far, RAM upgrades for them, and a router. Soon, I might be buying a new game comp piece by piece.)
Anyway, on to feedback...
Yaaaaaay! Color blending! It makes Theo's "chameleon" ability look a bit more plausible/obvious/in the foreground, rather than just having different colors every panel.
Nitpicks...
Forgot Theo's wings in the middle panel and the last one, but the last can be forgiven since it'll block off our view of Theo and/or his uncle. Calden's headwings are missing in the second-to-last panel.
The rocks and waterfalls, while very scenic, would probably look better as part of a mountain that rises above the panels. The rocks that make up the stream look too flat, (In other words, too much like a plateau shape.) especially in the last panel. Besides, the overall area they're in makes it look like they're near a hill or in the middle of some hills and valleys.
Sorry, I just happen to live hear the Hocking Hills area of Ohio and it reminded me of the landscape there. Have you seen any pictures of the area? If not, you should. (It's a nice place, to put it mildly.) Although, bushes are kinda uncommon there... At least, compared to the massive number of trees, anyway... But anyway, the more rocks in the background, the less trees and bushes! (Eh, not much of a tradeoff, is it?)
So... Tired... Brain... Fighting... Sleep... Won't... Shut... Up... Eyes... Heavy... Holy crap! It was 12:30am when I started this... How'd it become 2am?!
What kind of scanner is it?
As for the comic, I'm not entirely sure I understand Cal's complaint: only two of the structures actually seem to have been destroyed.
Yeah, but I'd be pretty peed about a bunch of paladin squatters holed up in a place I built, myself. (Hypocritic jerks...) Heck, in that case, I'd probably prefer for it to be razed to the ground.
And as for flying castles/cities, they sure worked for the good guys in Lunar, rite? And remember, those were the good guys, not "villians". If a villian uses it, odds are excellent that it'll crash with the villian still inside it. (Obviously, the heros, sidekicks, sickenly cute little pets, and love interests escape unscathed.) But, bear in mind, Theo's father probably ran into some "technical difficulties" and can't even get it off the ground.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 08, 2010, 02:03:19 AM
So... Tired... Brain... Fighting... Sleep... Won't... Shut... Up... Eyes... Heavy... Holy crap! It was 12:30am when I started this... How'd it become 2am?!
I've accidently stayed up until 7am working on art stuffs.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 08, 2010, 02:03:19 AMThe rocks that make up the stream look too flat, (In other words, too much like a plateau shape.) especially in the last panel. Besides, the overall area they're in makes it look like they're near a hill or in the middle of some hills and valleys.
There's two types of region I use for image reference, the first being tropical, broad leaf, and temperate rain forests. For the most part, they're very, very uneven ground.
As for the rocks being kind of flat, that's somewhat on purpose; backgrounds have a low priority in terms of detail. Too much detail makes the background distracting, and would take a lot of time.
Still... It probably wouldn't be hard to rough up the surfaces a bit.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 08, 2010, 02:03:19 AM
Sorry, I just happen to live hear the Hocking Hills area of Ohio and it reminded me of the landscape there. Have you seen any pictures of the area? If not, you should. (It's a nice place, to put it mildly.) Although, bushes are kinda uncommon there... At least, compared to the massive number of trees, anyway... But anyway, the more rocks in the background, the less trees and bushes! (Eh, not much of a tradeoff, is it?)
Sounds plesant. I'll have to look it up.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 08, 2010, 04:17:13 AM
What kind of scanner is it?
CanoScan N607U. It used to be the only scanners I could get were Canon or Epson, because I'm on a Mac.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 08, 2010, 04:17:13 AM
As for the comic, I'm not entirely sure I understand Cal's complaint: only two of the structures actually seem to have been destroyed.
I had a list of about a dozen structures and various ways they met their doom... I only had room for a few. "Squatting paladins" gave me a mental picture of a bunch of college frat boys in armor loafing around.
Cal actually has two complaints; One, structures he makes for the clan rarely go well, and two, adventurers keep messing up all his hard work.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 08, 2010, 10:31:02 AM
I'd be pretty peed about a bunch of paladin squatters holed up in a place I built, myself. (Hypocritic jerks...)
You're going to love Sebastien. I can tell.
...He's not in the comic yet.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 08, 2010, 10:31:02 AMBut, bear in mind, Theo's father probably ran into some "technical difficulties" and can't even get it off the ground.
GM Rule of Thumb: I do not need to tell the players everything I know, nor do I need to correct any assumptions they make.
Edit: Whatever made my scanner stop working seems to have disabled one of my brand new computers USB ports. Yay.
(Before you ask, I did try using different ports and cables with the scanner, to no avail.)
I stilllll can't wait to see what Theo is actually going to ask his uncle to do! :O *suspense!*
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 07, 2010, 09:23:53 PM
Almost ten years ago, I got out of high school. Once I got home, I took a one gallon jug filled with four years of leftover lunch money. I counted it all up, and had almost a hundred dollars. I went down town, and bought a scanner.
It's outlasted three computers, two Waccom tablets, four versions of Photoshop, a year at college, and five changes of residence. It was the first piece of computer hardware that I had ever bought for myself, and probably the best thing I got out of high school.
Last week it refused to turn on, and has shown no signs of life since.
I should be able to get a new one, but I don't think I'll ever be able to replace it.
Sounds like you got your money's worth, at least.
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 08, 2010, 01:54:04 PM
CanoScan N607U. It used to be the only scanners I could get were Canon or Epson, because I'm on a Mac.
I have two scanners from 1998, the main one is my Dad's old HP Deskjet. I've never tried it on the Mac, and in any case bridging SCSI to USB is liable to be a bit of a fiddle. Also it may amuse you that one of these 1998 scanners - the A3 one - was bought new in 2008. I was all "I didn't know they still made those!" and then "...oh. They don't." when I finally opened the box :P
But yeah, it's a shame when a workhorse like that finally breaks down. I dunno if it's bus-powered or has its own power supply, but it wouldn't surprise me if one of the capacitors has died, they usually have a 10-15 year lifespan.
I'm most worried that I'm going to buy a piece of crap cheap scanner thats gonna break in a week. All the "nice" scanners are 3-in-1 devices with printers, or fax machines, or coffee dispensers I don't really want.
Actually, what I really want is an affordable scanner that's larger then 8.5 x 14. That would be nice. I'll have to look into that.
DSOF is gonna be late for sure. Big surprise. I did get a lot of work on cast profiles and stuff this week, tho.
Anyway... Here's the CCC pic (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3546846/) I did for Basilisk. It's already gotten more comments and faves then all my posted stuff combined. I am filled with fear.
Also: did a little comic for Gabi (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3546911/). For someone who runs a gift swap, she doesn't get enough love.
Yay, double post.
Finally finished colouring my character pic for the OSaS RP:
Gabriel Cartwright (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3556850/)
Doing the canvas pants was... fun.
I can tell...
You've pulled it off very well, though.
Nice shading on the pants Fox, looks super realistic. Cool character- mechanic no doubt.
Quote from: Kipiru on March 15, 2010, 05:54:33 AM
Cool character- mechanic no doubt.
Three parts mechanic, one part enchanter. I had a very fun time coming up with... alternative ammunition for the gun.
I've been working on my shading technique for a while now... I think it's almost at a point I'm happy with.
DSOF #59 Yes, concrete. (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/comics/dsof59.jpg)
Had to forego shading this time around. I hit my maximum stress tolerance.
I've come to realize something... I find working on a computer to be intolerable. It's arduous from start to finish. I'm seriously considering staying with flat colours (which takes hardly any time), or even going to B/W. The more I can do on paper, the better. I'd rather focus on improving my inking anyway, to be frank.
Comment and critique appreciated, as usual. Archive still not working.
Interesting. Concrete isn't something that occurs in nature, which means that the entire mountain range? Artificial? Leftover from some sort of ancient civilization perhaps? Magical construct.
I'm wanting to see where this goes.
The mountain range is primarily limestone, which is used to make cement. Cement, plus aggregate, makes concrete.
You remembered everybody's wings except Jade's in the last panel, and Theo's right wing in 3 and 4. (If I really wanted to be picky, then I'd throw in Calden's wings on panel 6 since they normally extend above his head when folded.) Theo's left headwing in panel 2, as well as his right headwing in panel 3 and 7, looks obscured, but reasonably so. And... Yeesh! I'm counting 35 37 wings altogether! (A grand total of 45 if you were showing all of them!) No wonder you're forgetting some... (And probably also hate wings... So, I can't blame you.) Hmmm... Maybe that's why Amber's cubi hide their headwings...
It's a minor thing, but Calden's eyes really need that white spot in them like you have in comic 57. Otherwise, they look kinda... Zombie-like and dead... (Since the white spot is there mostly when he's angry or surprised, I'm guessing it's an emoting thing, though.) Calden's mouth looks like it's missing in panels 4 and 6, and Theo doesn't have his rodent teeth. (This wouldn't be a problem to most, except for the fact that it really irked me on commercials for the Alvin and the Chipmunks movie, and your chars are 90% furry. Plus, when you get bitten by rodent-like creatures, you remember the teeth!).
However, the mountains and other scenery looks pretty good. The many, many folds in Theo's robes are well done, and other than the above, I don't have any complaints. More importantly, if I wasn't actively looking everything over for stuff to comment on, I might not have even noticed most of the nitpicks above. (Well, except for maybe Calden's eyes...)
As for the drawing, do you use a tablet? Not the Tablet PCs, but a connectable tablet like one of the ones here: http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=296&name=Tablets (http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=296&name=Tablets)? Nevermind, if you'd rather work on your inking, then it's entirely up to you. (Plus, tablets are expensive! The absolute cheapest was over $50, US! And it even used USB1.1!) However, what program do you use to do your coloring?
EDIT: I forgot! You already hate wings! *Facepalm.*
EDIT 2: Forgot an 't...
EDIT... Oh, fuggit...
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 27, 2010, 11:16:53 PM
You remembered everybody's wings except Jade's in the last panel, and Theo's right wing in 3 and 4. (If I really wanted to be picky, then I'd throw in Calden's wings on panel 6 since they normally extend above his head when folded.) Theo's left headwing in panel 2, as well as his right headwing in panel 3 and 7, looks obscured, but reasonably so. And... Yeesh! I'm counting 35 37 wings altogether! (A grand total of 45 if you were showing all of them!) No wonder you're forgetting some... (And probably also hate wings... So, I can't blame you.) Hmmm... Maybe that's why Amber's cubi hide their headwings...
In the future, you can just mention that I forgot a few wings. You don't need to go through the whole list.
In some cases, like theo's far headwings in panel two and three, I didn't forget them. They're just not visible at that angle. (Most of the time, though, I forgot them or couldn't draw them properly.)
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 27, 2010, 11:16:53 PM
It's a minor thing, but Calden's eyes really need that white spot in them like you have in comic 57.
I add shiny spots in the rendering stage, which I didn't actually do this time around. They would have been worth the time, tho... Thanks for pointing that out.
Calden's mouth missing was deliberate. It's a comic... convention... thing. The expression looked better without.
His jawline looks totally messed up, though.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 27, 2010, 11:16:53 PM
Theo doesn't have his rodent teeth.
I don't draw Theo with large incisors anymore... I couldn't find a decent looking way to do so. Every now and then I do a few sketches to take another shot at it, but I've never had luck with the results.
Man... I wish I had a pet rat.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 27, 2010, 11:16:53 PM
However, the mountains and other scenery looks pretty good.
Cool. I was hoping that would come out well.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 27, 2010, 11:16:53 PM
As for the drawing, do you use a tablet?
I have an Wacom Intuos3, 6x8. It was 168$ new-in-box on eBay. I still prefer to do my drawing on paper, though.
Quote from: Drayco84 on March 27, 2010, 11:16:53 PM
However, what program do you use to do your coloring?
Photoshop CS2. I'll be upgrading to CS4 relatively soon. My mom is a professional graphic designer, so I get a copy of whatever she's using (Thank you, Adobe, for multiple installs).
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 27, 2010, 11:49:59 PM
In the future, you can just mention that I forgot a few wings. You don't need to go through the whole list.
Sorry...
Quote from: WhiteFox on March 27, 2010, 11:49:59 PM
I don't draw Theo with large incisors anymore... I couldn't find a decent looking way to do so. Every now and then I do a few sketches to take another shot at it, but I've never had luck with the results.
Man... I wish I had a pet rat.
I understand, trying to combine animal and human dental features require a lot of artistic license.
I've never had rats, but I've had hamsters and worse,
bunnies. Not small, dwarf bunnies that are the size of rats, but
bunnies. Large, heavily muscular beasts that are as longer than my forearm when hunched up, and even longer when lying on their sides. We're currently into our third generation. First ones were raised by someone else, second gen was raised by us from birth, and the new gen are the sons and daughters of an Arnold Schwartza-bunny who, when he got to run out in the yard,
zig-zagged all the way up the freaking hill, stopping and waiting for the sucker on the other end of the harness to get somewhat close before bounding off again...
But anyway, I still have a scar on my left hand from when the grand-pappy bit me... It was a cold day, I came in from taking care of "his" hunnies, so I figured the least he could let me do was let me put my cold hands on his tummy. After all, my sister was holding him at the time, and he didn't
dare to (Censored) around with her... (Obviously, THAT was dead wrong...) I had to
pry his jaws open with my right hand in order to free my left hand... I still remember the feel of his whiskers and his fur while trying to do so...
DSOF #60 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/comics/dsof60.jpg)
I decided to forego shading most of the page. It doesn't really add all that much to the story, and I just want to move on at this point.
This page was a lot of experimentation, and not much of it came out well. The perspective is shot all to hell in places, and the inking was atrocious (what you see here is the cleaned up version. You don't want to see the originals).
There are a few things I like about the page, tho. I had to redraw one of the panels, and it ended up being the best panel I have ever inked in my life. The shading on the last panel was... well, whole new levels of effort (I cheated, actually. Just a tiny bit). I think it paid off, tho.
The archive problem has been sorted out. It should be back online... whenever I get it back online, I guess. By the next update. Probably
When I started DSOF, I don't realized how much face-time Felix was going to get. :B
Anyway... comments and critique would be very much appreciated.
(Note to self; Edit and Quote are two different buttons. I do not need to quote my first post, I need to edit it.)
Edit: Did you want me to remove this post, just to make things cleaner?
-- llearch
The only thing that strikes me is that it looks pretty deserted for a shopping center... And the stairs in the last panel look a tad too short for masses of people to easily walk on. In other words, it needs longer steps.
If it were me, I'd take the lazy way out and lampshade the lack of people in the next comic. Nvm, that sounds rude and harsh. Sorry.
Ooh, so she didn't just slap down Felix and move on... eeenteresting :D
Love how felix shifts his/her wings into tentacles to aid in getting back on their feet, cool touch.
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 03, 2010, 09:14:17 PM
The only thing that strikes me is that it looks pretty deserted for a shopping center... And the stairs in the last panel look a tad too short for masses of people to easily walk on. In other words, it needs longer steps.
I haven't even tried drawing crowds yet. It's on my to-do list, tho.
I'm always trying to develop my skills, but comments like these help me prioritize what I should be focusing on. Thanks.
The place they're in right now isn't a high traffic area, actually (there was going to be an establishing shot, but script editing pushed it over to the next page).
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on May 05, 2010, 12:47:42 AM
Ooh, so she didn't just slap down Felix and move on... eeenteresting :D
Of course not... there's scheming to be done. >:3
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on May 05, 2010, 12:47:42 AM
Love how felix shifts his/her wings into tentacles to aid in getting back on their feet, cool touch.
I like to add little interesting bits like that. I don't like to flaunt the characters powers, and being subtle is much more fun.
I was worried it wasn't clear what Felix was doing in that panel. Thanks.
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 05, 2010, 06:26:24 PM
I was worried it wasn't clear what Felix was doing in that panel. Thanks.
No, that was quite clear. It was a nice touch.
DSOF #61 (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/comics/dsof61.jpg)
Emeline just keeps digging herself in, doesn't she?
Whoo boy. Where to begin...
First, larger format! More then twice as much drawing area.I like it. It's a much more comfortable size to draw at. Unfortunately, it makes the big empty spaces stand out that much more.
The backgrounds are still inadequate. I can sketch architectural stuff just fine... as soon as I have to polish it up, it looks like crap. Blarg
I'm still trying to figure out how I fubar'd so many lines in panel one. India Ink is a harsh mistress, but I love her so.
Comments and critique appreciated.
Regarding the website...
tl;dr version: still working on it.
Laugh-at-my-Pain Extended Directors Cut version: Got tired of sorting out technical issues with the hosting I'm borrowing from Dad, so I signed up for some of my own.
Since I don't have a credit card, I had to use moms. Mum said to the ISP: "Put it on my card, but in WF's name."
They put it in her name.
So, I don't actually have full control over it, and I've got all the problems I had originally plus a few new ones. Now I have more hassling to go through with the ISP, I'm still borrowing space from one of my parents, and I'm out 40 bucks. Yay!
*Hugs Emeline's 'twins'.*
What? Why are you looking at me like that for?
Anyway, just to check, have you already registered a domain name, and what webhost are you using? (If it's Dotster.com, I can help.)
EDIT: Also, what kind of server are you using? Linux or Winsuck? (Yes, I'm biased. Linux is also slightly cheaper per month.)
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 23, 2010, 02:06:00 AM
*Hugs Emeline's 'twins'.*
What? Why are you looking at me like that for?
Because you must be a sad, desperate little man.
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 23, 2010, 02:06:00 AM
Anyway, just to check, have you already registered a domain name, and what webhost are you using? (If it's Dotster.com, I can help.)
Yes, I have. No, it's not.
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 23, 2010, 02:06:00 AM
EDIT: Also, what kind of server are you using? Linux or Winsuck? (Yes, I'm biased. Linux is also slightly cheaper per month.)
I dunno... it's a serving server, I guess.
I made sure it was a red one. I'm pretty sure they go faster.
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 23, 2010, 02:44:34 AM
Because you must be a sad, desperate little man.
I take offense to "little". I'm six feet tall and I've hit enough stuff with my head to be reminded of that.
"Sad" and "Desperate" are totally spot-on, though.
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 23, 2010, 02:44:34 AM
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 23, 2010, 02:06:00 AM
EDIT: Also, what kind of server are you using? Linux or Winsuck? (Yes, I'm biased. Linux is also slightly cheaper per month.)
I dunno... it's a serving server, I guess.
I made sure it was a red one. I'm pretty sure they go faster.
HURK! Nnnnnnnnnn... GrrrrraaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAHHH! *Head asplodes.*
EDIT: Fixed quote.
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 23, 2010, 03:18:23 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 23, 2010, 02:44:34 AM
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 23, 2010, 02:06:00 AM
EDIT: Also, what kind of server are you using? Linux or Winsuck? (Yes, I'm biased. Linux is also slightly cheaper per month.)
I dunno... it's a serving server, I guess.
I made sure it was a red one. I'm pretty sure they go faster.
HURK! Nnnnnnnnnn... GrrrrraaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAHHH! *Head asplodes.*
He's got a point, the red ones go faster. Adding the "Red Paint Job" upgrade to any Ork vehicle in Warhammer 40,000 gives it +1 inch of movement every turn.
Shachza: So... nothing to say about the comic, then?
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 24, 2010, 04:44:19 PM
Shachza: So... nothing to say about the comic, then?
Hmm , i am a common N00b but since you want some input and i am procrastinating, i shall provide you with some :D
Firstly, you say that you cannot do architecture : Bollocks, it looks fine! Certainly the backgrounds are more elaborate than one would expect of a background.The comic seems fine - i haven't read all of it yet, so i don't exactly get the last part, but the jokes i did see, for example adventurers "eating" project i loled at. Visible that unlike me you are not a devotee of silly humor, but where you put some it goes well.
Although i feel bad for criticising it, since i myself suck at drawing faces (in my case ,making them consistent) i would say that the faces are something that looks the worst, at least to me. They are kind of.. blank.. i don't know whether is the eyes (probably) or the three dimensional drawing, or the fact you are trying to make them look more realistic... maybe is just that it is a style of drawing i don't like much... but then Gabriel Cartwright or how is he called (from Steam and steel) looked fine...
Anyway . that's all for me so far... i figured that since you have been helpful too, i shall at least try to do the same
Quote from: danman on May 24, 2010, 06:41:52 PM
Hmm , i am a common N00b but since you want some input and i am procrastinating, i shall provide you with some :D
Urgh. I hate it when people assume that because they themselves can't draw, they aren't qualified to comment.
Bull. Pretty much anyone who views a piece of art can form an opinion about it, and those opinions are all good to know. Stuff like anatomy and perspective I can study out of a book. Hearing what people do and do not like about my work... that's valuable data.
I really need to finish that critiquing tutorial I started.
Quote from: danman on May 24, 2010, 06:41:52 PM
Firstly, you say that you cannot do architecture : Bollocks, it looks fine! Certainly the backgrounds are more elaborate than one would expect of a background.
See, that right there. Good to know. What's right or wrong isn't the same as what people do or don't like.
For the record, I said the backgrounds were "inadequate." Panel one has no shading, and panel 3-5 are just gradients. Not to mention, a lot of perspective lines got messed up. I'm working on it.
Quote from: danman on May 24, 2010, 06:41:52 PM
The comic seems fine - i haven't read all of it yet, so i don't exactly get the last prt, but the jokes i did see, for example adventurers "eating" project i loled at. Visible that unlike me you are not a devotee of silly humor, but where you put some it goes well.
DSoF is supposed to be a serious story, but I don't like it getting super dark and heavy. So, I have to balance things a bit. The characters are, for the most part, dead serious people, and I don't like having them break character just for a punchline. Black humour and deadpanning doesn't break character, tho.
Plus, I like to slip in clever or quirky bits. Theolonius' and Maltorius' business robes (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/comics/dsof43.jpg), for one, or Theonor's "She's honest. I like that." (http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/comics/dmfa/comics/dsof49.jpg) quip.
Quote from: danman on May 24, 2010, 06:41:52 PM
Although i feel bad for criticising it, since i myself suck at drawing faces (in my case ,making them consistent) i would say that the faces are something that looks the worst, at least to me. They are kind of.. blank.. i don't know whether is the eyes (probably) or the three dimensional drawing, or the fact you are trying to make them look more realistic... maybe is just that it is a style of drawing i don't like much... but then Gabriel Cartwright or how is he called (from Steam and steel) looked fine...
Huh... guess I'll have to meditate on that one. There's a number of things about the characters faces I'm not happy with, and I think most of it is because I'm clumsier with a pen then I would like.
I'm constantly shifting the balance between human and animal for the faces. It might be something to do with that. Gabriel has much more animalistic eyes, for one.
Quote from: danman on May 24, 2010, 06:41:52 PM
Anyway . that's all for me so far... i figured that since you have been helpful too, i shall at least try to do the same
Much appreciated.
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 24, 2010, 04:44:19 PM
Shachza: So... nothing to say about the comic, then?
I don't have a lot to critique.
You're pretty good with poses, especially wings, and expressions. Your work on backgrounds are good as well, and shows a lot of thought about the little things that are simply
there wherever you are. I like seeing the more detailed shading that you're trying. I was going to mention your ability to do elbows, but that was from the first couple of comics and I think you've really improved since then.
If you want me to be nitpicky, then I would say that your shading needs to transition to deeper shadows as it's a bit light right now, and keep working on the neatness of your lines (ex: the edges of Emeline's dress are a little squiggly).
P.S. You forgot to color Emeline's headwings in the last panel of 61.
Shachza: This is all good stuff to know. Much appreciated.
The new archive page is finally done!
...Okay, so it's
mostly done.
The HTML and CSS is complete, but I still have to get the PHP coding done. So, the nav buttons don't work and there's only one comic page up (for testing purposes).
V.3 Archive for DSOF! (http://www.whitefoxart.com/archive2.html)
Also, there's going to be another navigation bar for the
entire site, but since I don't have any other inside pages, there's not much point to including it just yet. Those shouldn't take too much time to do, though.
Regardless, I thought I'd put up the new page here for comments on the design, and cross-platform compatibility testing. I'm worried about a couple of things in particular;
- The formatting is done in .css with div tags, which can screw up in spectacular ways.
- I played with the formatting of the links in .css, which should be done judiciously.
- The background image changes shade between Safari and FireFox. Either shade looks okay, but I have no clue why it's doing that, or how if it looks okay in other browsers.
- On top of the above, colour balance changes between monitors and OS.
- I used border decorations a fair bit, and I hope they don't look too obnoxious.
So, comments appreciated.
If there's one thing I like about the design, it's that it's much cleaner. The CGI graphics were pretty much a cop out, since I wasn't confident doing them in Photoshop or by hand at the time. I managed to cut down he number of images, per page, from 16 to
3 (not including the comic itself)... I'm sure that'll do nice things for the load times and bandwidth.
I'm glad I finally got to use the logo at a decent size. I spent a solid week designing it on paper and making it in Flash... and never actually used it. Bastard Gothic fonts are fun.
DSOF #62 goes up tonight or tomorrow. Or at least, it
should.
[EDIT] Special thanks to llearch for some very handy links to .css and .html how-to sites.
The design is indeed simple, clean, and looks nice, especially compared to my own code. (Don't look at the code on my website... DON'T LOOK AT THE CODE ON MY WEBSITE!)
The menu text is black when using Opera with PCLOS, though. (This is probably because you don't have a "color" property in the Style Tag (http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_style.asp).) If you recognize the site, it's one you referred me to some time ago. (No doubt Llearch mentioned it already.) And just in case you need it, here's HTML color codes (http://html-color-codes.com/).
Currently though, are you using stylesheets yet? (I never could figure out how to get those to work, BTW. On the other hand, I have divs in my iframe pages... Yeah, it took me long enough.) Nvm. You're planning on using PHP.
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 28, 2010, 11:46:38 PM
The menu text is black when using Opera with PCLOS, though. (This is probably because you don't have a "color" property in the Style Tag (http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_style.asp).)
I have colour properties set for the <a> tag and it's variations. The links should be yellow, underlined when moused over, and dark grey if visited.
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 28, 2010, 11:46:38 PMAnd just in case you need it, here's HTML color codes (http://html-color-codes.com/).
I have Photoshop. It does me fine.
Plus, I'm getting to the point where I can look at a code and figure out what colour it is. Approximately.
Quote from: Drayco84 on May 28, 2010, 11:46:38 PM
Currently though, are you using stylesheets yet? (I never could figure out how to get those to work, BTW. On the other hand, I have divs in my iframe pages... Yeah, it took me long enough.) Nvm. You're planning on using PHP.
I'm using CSS right now. It will define
any attribute for any tag, not just font styles. I use it to set the height, width, position, and border styles of the div tags.
The PHP (when it's done) fills in various elements of the HTML depending on the URL. If you go to comic #27, for example, it'll calculate the page numbers for the Back and Next links, and put "27" in the image tag for the actual comic. It will also automatically check what the most recent comic is to fill in the "Today" link, and check if there is an easter egg for the comic.
(Update: The PHP is coded, now I just have to figure out how to get it working on my site.)
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 29, 2010, 12:27:32 AM
I have colour properties set for the <a> tag and it's variations. The links should be yellow, underlined when moused over, and dark grey if visited.
I got this off of your css page...
a:link {
font-size: large;
font-weight: bold;
text-decoration: none;
font-family: Georgia;
a:active{
font-size: large;
font-weight: bold;
text-decoration: none;
font-family: Georgia;
Yeah, I'd say that regular links and active links are missing color... (The others DO have it though.) And before you ask, no, I don't know the difference.
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 29, 2010, 12:27:32 AM
The PHP (when it's done) fills in various elements of the HTML depending on the URL. If you go to comic #27, for example, it'll calculate the page numbers for the Back and Next links, and put "27" in the image tag for the actual comic. It will also automatically check what the most recent comic is to fill in the "Today" link, and check if there is an easter egg for the comic.
Yeah, I had enough of a hard time trying to get fixed-posiiton tables and drop-down menus to work as it was without trying to wrap my head around PHP... On the other hand, I'm still amazed that the stuff I've "borrowed" and affixed with super glue actually works... (And through the creative use of iframes, I have drop-down menus that only need to be updated in one place.
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 29, 2010, 12:27:32 AM
(Update: The PHP is coded, now I just have to figure out how to get it working on my site.)
MySQL, aka Databases, are a key point here. My borrowed comment system uses PHP and it MUST have that database. Anything more than that I'd have to research.
I think I may know why the background changes shade - you used Photoshop to make it, which embedded an "ICC color profile" inside the file. Most browsers ignore that, but one of these two (I don't remember, but probably Webkit, i.e. Safari/Chrome) actually reads it and applies the "correction".
Check out these articles, if you have a minute.
http://www.viget.com/inspire/the-mysterious-save-for-web-color-shift/
http://www.viget.com/inspire/save-for-web-simply/
http://www.gballard.net/psd/save_for_web_embed_ICC_profile.html
Also (mostly @ Drayco84):
"a {}" applies to all clickable links. It's a good place to put all common stuff.
"a:link {}" are links that hadn't been visited yet (are not in browser's history).
"a:visited {}" is the other half - the ones you've been to already. In "plain HTML" with no formatting, a:link are usually blue, and a:visited hmm... dark purple?
Finally, "a:hover {}" for when mouse is on top of them. Honestly, I don't remember if there's yet another one that applies WHILE you're clicking on a link... might be, but then it might be just all the Flash work I've been doing messing up my memory.
And I confirm that the menu displays black or very dark gray in Opera. But then,
QuoteThe links should be yellow, underlined when moused over, and dark grey if visited.
it might be that Opera sees that they (temporarily) lead to this very page, archive2.html, and says "Oh hey, I'm on that page already! I'll use the visited style for the links!"
Good luck.
Quote from: hapless on May 29, 2010, 05:44:36 AM
I think I may know why the background changes shade - you used Photoshop to make it, which embedded an "ICC color profile" inside the file. Most browsers ignore that, but one of these two (I don't remember, but probably Webkit, i.e. Safari/Chrome) actually reads it and applies the "correction".
Check out these articles, if you have a minute.
http://www.viget.com/inspire/the-mysterious-save-for-web-color-shift/
http://www.viget.com/inspire/save-for-web-simply/
http://www.gballard.net/psd/save_for_web_embed_ICC_profile.html
You have my undying gratitude, good sir.
Quote from: hapless on May 29, 2010, 05:44:36 AM
it might be that Opera sees that they (temporarily) lead to this very page, archive2.html, and says "Oh hey, I'm on that page already! I'll use the visited style for the links!"
That's what I was thinking, actually. Do the grey links underline when hovered?
Also, theres "a:active". I believe that's the one that defines the mouse-down state.
Drayco84: My PHP archive doesn't actually need a database. Which is nifty.
Also, I did define the a in CSS, and it's link, visited, hover, and active states.
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 29, 2010, 04:27:51 PM
You have my undying gratitude, good sir.
Glad to be of any use around here...
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 29, 2010, 04:27:51 PM
That's what I was thinking, actually. Do the grey links underline when hovered?
Yep, sure they do!
Quote from: WhiteFox on May 29, 2010, 04:27:51 PM
Also, theres "a:active". I believe that's the one that defines the mouse-down state.
Good to know.
The links are in black for me. They do have underline when hovered, but they don't appear to change colour when clicked on.
I'm using FF 3.6.3 on Windows 7.
It lives! Bwa ha ha haaa! At long last.
The New DSOF Archive (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php)
Many thanks to:
llearch, for instrumental assistance in trouble-shooting.
Mechanisto, for the PHP code.
Everyone who commented on the preliminary design. The feedback was much appreciated.
I did make a few cosmetic changes based on said feedback, particularly the colours for the links: the standard yellow for unvisited, a light yellow for hovering, a dark yellow for clicking, and a light grey for visited links. The new scheme is more in line with standard link colour conventions: it changes colour when moused over, and "blinks" when clicked on. I used a lighter grey because it worked better with the hover's lighter yellow then the dark grey.
Next up, I'm going to start developing character biography pages. After that, I'm building a main page.
Given the amount of time all the site development is taking, DSOF is probably going to be bi-weekly for a while. :/
[EDIT] Finally, I can get rid of that huge list of links on the first post for all the individual pages.
Also: I think I'll reboot my sketchblog on the new site. When I have time for posting sketches.
btw, strip 7 is much larger than the others.
Like, unreadably large.
Other than that, I've got as far as 33 before finishing lunch...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on June 01, 2010, 09:04:21 AM
btw, strip 7 is much larger than the others.
Like, unreadably large.
*Fix'd*
The horror. The badly drawn horror.
It looks good, though still rather skeletonized it works well as well and does what it is supposed to do, I like it :3
Ty: The site will flesh out once I have more content for it. Even so, I'm a fan of clean designs so I doubt there will be much clutter.
Aye, one things I have against comicpress is that it is rather cluttery, I was thinking more like a header and personalized buttons, really. And of course the tabs you already mentions; Iow: Character Tab. :3
DSOF #62 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=62) (NSFW: Lanugage)
Don't you hate it when speech bubbles cover up the art?
The backgrounds just weren't working, so I decided to just take 'em out. The lighting is inconsistent between panels because I was tweaking my colouring methods on the fly... I don't think it hurts the comic as a whole, so I put it on my "Do it right next time" list and left it as is.
To relieve some ambiguity; in my mind Felix is a she. When writing scripts, I use "Felix" as a unisex name. For the most part, that's about all I'm going to say on the matter since the subject is a significant element of the comic.
At any rate... comments and critique appreciated.
Free cameo appearance if you can guess his name.
Excellent use of speech bubbles to cover up the features of the passerby. You could've "borrowed" a character from pretty much any other webcomic and still maintained plausible deniability. (Hey, it made me lol.) Unfortunately, it was kind of a serious scene...
Quote from: Drayco84 on June 10, 2010, 11:07:05 PM
Excellent use of speech bubbles to cover up the features of the passerby.
He's not a random passerby, as the dialog for that panel suggests.
So is it safe to assume Felix is actually female? Or perhaps recently underwent a true sex-change operation? It seems s/he is talking as if s/he has experienced both being a "mother" and having a "husband"
Quote from: Basilisk on June 13, 2010, 09:22:13 AM
So is it safe to assume Felix is actually female?
Sure.
I mean, it's not like goblins will steal your liver if you make a wrong assumption, right?
Quote from: Basilisk on June 13, 2010, 09:22:13 AM
It seems s/he is talking as if s/he has experienced both being a "mother" and having a "husband"
As the dialog suggests.
I can't really formulate a proper introduction or description of how this piece of work came to be, so I'll just go ahead and link it:
Hairstyles of a Crime Fighting, Chinese Take-out Box for a Head, Chopstick Wielding Android. (Feat. Dumpring) (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4317725) (Note: FA)
I find the hair styles amusing. :P
"I pity the foo'd!" <- Best food pun, evar! >:D
That is all.
Quote from: Meany on August 16, 2010, 09:36:25 AM
"I pity the foo'd!" <- Best food pun, evar! >:D
That is all.
This whole thing started with due to comment I made on one of Grinds drawings of Dumpring on FA:
"I've never seen an anthropomorphic chinese-takeout-box-head person before.... I guess not all anthros have to be based on animals.
Food for thought."
It was well received.
Also: I get a kick out of the shades on the fight-hawk: it's the wire handle for the box, flipped forward, with a pair of clip-ons. Not sure how obvious it is.
All I know is that I'm hungry from some chinese food... AGAIN... Thanks a bunch, WF.
DSOF#63 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=63)
Yay! I love exposition!
Wait... no. What's the opposite of love? Right; hate. That's the word I'm looking for.
Comments and critique appreciated... and, good golly gosh, do I ever need it.
In the first two panels, Felix seems bulky. Not muscled, bulky. And the fox-whose name I am too lazy to go back and relearn, her head seems...odd throughout this comic. Elongated.
Those are my only issues with it. :V
Emeline's head has been a constant headache for me; it always ends up the wrong shape, the features all end up misplaced, and the hair never looks like it's supposed to.
The last two panels had to be re-drawn twice.
How naughty of Felix... >:3
A fun episode, even with all the exposition.
BTW, I noticed the colours of Emmy's ears, but I wasn't sure if it was because she's turning her head back and forth, or if her ears are actually going like semaphores from her mood.
you know, Emmy could stand to have a leeetle support in the chest region, and given that 'things that support breasts' have been around since the fourth century BCE, there's really no excuse. :U
Was she morphine her headwings on and off? THey weren't there in the first panel, and only one for a few panels, until they are both there for the last 3.
Thank you for the feedback; I really appreciate it.
Quote from: SpottedKitty on August 22, 2010, 12:15:50 AM
BTW, I noticed the colours of Emmy's ears, but I wasn't sure if it was because she's turning her head back and forth, or if her ears are actually going like semaphores from her mood.
A little bit of both, actually. I'm so not too good at positioning or posing ears; I guess that's why they jump around so much.
Quote from: Turnsky on August 22, 2010, 09:09:18 AM
you know, Emmy could stand to have a leeetle support in the chest region, and given that 'things that support breasts' have been around since the fourth century BCE, there's really no excuse. :U
"Things that support breasts" have been around since men evolved hands.
There's a bit of story behind Emeline and her better halves. She's going unsupported for a reason, and it's deliberate on her part, but I'm really not drawing them with the look I intended them to have. I'm trying to be more aware of this when I draw her.
Quote from: Drathorin on August 22, 2010, 11:20:13 AM
Was she morphine her headwings on and off? THey weren't there in the first panel, and only one for a few panels, until they are both there for the last 3.
The missing headwings in the first panel are my mistake.
Normally, Emeline has one wing sticking straight up, and the other tucked back. You can see the top of the tucked wing in the second panel. The tucked wing isn't always visible, depending on the position of her head, which is why it isn't there in the third panel. (Also, I screwed up the lines on the upraised wing in the third panel...
fudge).
In the last three panels, both her wings are extended because she lost her composure. I drew them as though they're being seen from straight on, which better suited her expression. Her head is turned a little in the last panel, which is why the one on the right is broader.
I really don't like limiting myself to drawing things from one specific angle, in a limited number of poses... I shouldn't make things confusing by constantly shifting around the view, though.
danman's gift for CCC#12 is finally complete: Maniacal Laughter is the Best Medicine (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4437647/).
This was an interesting little experiment; I wanted to see what my colouring would look like without lines.
The only thing that really bugs me is that (Spoiler warning: once I point this out, there's no way to un-see it) "The eyes look really off kilter." I could swear it wasn't like that in the sketch.
Since it was late, I gave danman mini-gift as well:
(http://www.whitefoxart.com/ccc/vlad_theo.png)
...And since I had it laying around, I gave The Basilisk a minigift too. Arial and Darkshine, our characters in the Lush Wasteland RP, having a post-mission conversation: Bicker, Bicker, Bicker... (http://www.whitefoxart.com/ccc/bickering.png)
EDIT: I finally finished my guide for how I prepare line art for colouring, and posted it in the Library. See it here: http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,7731.0.html
Basilisk's CCC #13 Gift (WIP) (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4617167/)
Originally posted here. (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,5673.msg340453.html#msg340453)
The colours are a fair bit different then Bas's usual: I went with redish brown and a golden orange for the fur, rather then a grayish brown and a darker grayish brown.
The piping and cuffs on the coat are a slate gray, while the hair bands, epaulettes, clasps, and gorget are silver. That'll be much more noticable when I get around to adding the metallic highlights.
The gun, an S&W .500 upsized for demons, took longer to ink then the entire rest of the pic... and it still needs lots of work.
Anyway: Comments and critique appreciated.
Over a month since my last post?! UNACCEPTABLE!
Last night in IRC, I goaded Basilisk into daring me to draw a seampunk gorilla mech ("with lots of gears in the arms and a little tiny viewport for the pilot." His words, not mine). He gave me 24 hours. Didn't get as far as I wanted, but Bas approved of it heartily enough that he conceeed the bet anyway. Awfully sportsmanlike of him.
So: The Guerrilla Warfare (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/geurrilla_mech.png) 'mech.
I don't do speed-sketches like this in Photoshop often. 98% of this was done with a 9pt airbrush and 4 hotkeys, and was about 2.5 hours of work total. The smoke in particular was fun to do, as well as all those little rivets. I love how that little thumbnail sketch of bas came out.
Comments appreciated.
(If anyone's wondering about the little hat, I found out that a Miter cap was a standard part of a grenadier's uniform in victorian times. Not just for bishops, I guess.)
A double post. I'm being productive this week.
DSoF #64: Cursive is really hard to pronounce (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=64)
[edit] ...Rembered my witty remark for the link.
tl;dr version: this page really got messed up.
<blog_ramble>
This is probably the most deliberately I've shown Felix shifting gender, so there were a lot of things that were critical for me to get right on this page. Which of course means that I ended up flubbing them horribly. Some of it is stuff I haven't done a very good job of showing in previous pages, so I'm not sure how apparent the differences are here.
In particular:
-Felix has only one eye. Quite often, it's heuuuge. There's a reason for this, which will be covered in the near future.
-Her eye colour varies between violet and yellow, though not always depending on her assumed gender.
-Felix has a slender, feminine, eyebrow in either gender.
-Feliciano is about half a head taller then Felicia, and much broader in the shoulders. In either gender, Felix is pretty well muscled.
-"Felix" is a gender neutral nickname. If anyone can tell me what the possessive form for Felix should be, I'd greatly appreciate it. (Felixes? Felixes'? Felix's? Friggin' english.)
Also, a while back I made a little breakthrough on drawing faces at a slightly different angle then usual. I'm not really used to it yet, so Felicia's face came out kind of awkward in a few places. Which had to be cleaned up in Photoshop. Which made things simultaneously better and worse. At the same time, I've made some progress on drawing feline faces in general, which has made things are a little more awkward. And I'm trying to incorporate nuanced facial expressions and varied camera angles at the same time. I just might be biting off more than I can chew.
Originally, I was going to have imagery of what was going through Felicia's mind in the background while she was talking. Then I realized that this wouldn't make sense, because Cubi can read minds, but they can't project. Zu wouldn't pick it up, not being a 'cubi, and there's no mnemograph this time around. So I had to redraw the whole page, there's a lot more talking for stuff that was going to be handled through imagry (I hate exposition), and there's a few things that are still not very clear.
This is the first time Mateo has been mentioned in the comic, though he has been alluded to previously. He probably shouldn't be confused with That Other Guy who has been alluded to previously, has appeared discreetly once, and was discreetly named prior to that.
I kinda like the BG in the first panel tho, even if the perspective is a bit overdone and off-kilter.
</blog_rambling>
At any rate... comments and critique very much appreciated... and boy do I need it. :B
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 15, 2010, 07:28:13 PM
-"Felix" is a gender neutral nickname. If anyone can tell me what the possessive form for Felix should be, I'd greatly appreciate it. (Felixes? Felixes'? Felix's? Friggin' english.)
I believe the rule is if the ending "s" sound is very "s"-like, then you do 's for possessive. If it ends in a "z"-like sound (like when you do plurals), then it's just the ' for possessive. So, Felix's
By the way, I noticed a typo in the third segment of the wall o' text. You misspelled baronies as baornies. Also, in the first segment, it's spelled "courier," not "couriour." I'll go ahead and remove this paragraph if they get fixed so it doesn't confuse later readers.
In terms of art style, Felicia's shoulders in the first panel seem over-pronounced, almost like she's got more bone there than normal. Not sure if that's part of her getting shorter, but hey. Also, the wings seem kinda... flat in the 2nd and 4th-6th panels. The lack of a black line bordering them is kinda odd among the black outline on the rest of Felix's figure, and there'd probably be a bit of shadow from the feathers, since they don't lie perfectly flat. That might be a result of you wanting to get the page redrawn and finished so you could move on, though.
One last thing, was the "If you see Mateo..." stuff meant to be as a P.S. or a separate language?
Hope this helps!
--Inumo
Okidoke, feedback time..
-arm and shoulder in the first panel looks a little funky. while the fifth panel's arm and shoulder looks like something out of a john carpenter flick. (seriously man, deformed)
-Wings: Learn to draw them in properly, or not at all.. it seems that most of the time you can't decide which and when you do put them in, the painted-in ones scream "afterthought" , and stylistically so? the headwings only thing makes them look like they're attending an "Asterix" convention..
Quote from: Inumo on October 15, 2010, 11:04:09 PM
By the way, I noticed a typo in the third segment of the wall o' text.
Spelling, my old nemesis... so we meet again. Note to self: Use the damn spell checker.
Quote from: Inumo on October 15, 2010, 11:04:09 PM
In terms of art style, Felicia's shoulders in the first panel seem over-pronounced, almost like she's got more bone there than normal. Not sure if that's part of her getting shorter, but hey.
Feliciano has much broader shoulders than Felicia, so you're seeing them in the middle of contracting. Likewise, her hips are widening.
Quote from: Inumo on October 15, 2010, 11:04:09 PM
Also, the wings seem kinda... flat in the 2nd and 4th-6th panels. The lack of a black line bordering them is kinda odd among the black outline on the rest of Felix's figure, and there'd probably be a bit of shadow from the feathers, since they don't lie perfectly flat. That might be a result of you wanting to get the page redrawn and finished so you could move on, though.
I seriously need to put some time into doing some wing studies... Thank you for the observations.
I actually took
out the lines for the backwings, because I wanted to make them drop into the background a little more. Guess it worked too well.
Quote from: Inumo on October 15, 2010, 11:04:09 PM
One last thing, was the "If you see Mateo..." stuff meant to be as a P.S. or a separate language?
It's a PS, spoken in a subdued tone.
Quote from: Inumo on October 15, 2010, 11:04:09 PM
Hope this helps!
It has, very much so. :3
@Turnsky:
Inumo said everything that you just did, and more, much more clearly, and politely.
As much as I appreciate the feedback and comments, yours has been more acerbic than informative. It sounds as though you are more interested in taking a strip out of my hide than actually being helpful. You couldn't even be bothered to mind your grammar.
I am trying very hard to improve my work, and at least bring it up to
minimum standards of
adequacy. You are not helping in that process.
Quote from: WhiteFox on October 16, 2010, 03:02:39 AM
@Turnsky:
Inumo said everything that you just did, and more, much more clearly, and politely.
Touche.
Quote
As much as I appreciate the feedback and comments, yours has been more acerbic than informative. It sounds as though you are more interested in taking a strip out of my hide than actually being helpful. You couldn't even be bothered to mind your grammar.
answering critique with your own? Again, Touche.
Quote
I am trying very hard to improve my work, and at least bring it up to minimum standards of adequacy. You are not helping in that process.
*sigh* Very well, you seem content that i want to tear strips out of you, so be it. To you, good sir, i shall indulge you upon this.
For starters, let me foist upon you the very dictionary definition of "feedback":
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feedback
Stop complaining about the tone of the feedback, just the fact that you get it about
something should say quite a bit.
Now, keeping in line with my somewhat "harsh and abrasive" tendencies, i shall point out various things that you should be looking at to not only improve, but to show that you're capable of doing so, and quite frankly, we haven't seen too much of that in these areas. This is also a rephrase for your benefit.
- Your habit of haphazardly putting wings in one panel, forgoing them in the next, and so on. This shows inconsistency on the artist's part, like he cannot decide whether or not he wants to draw wings. Hence my earlier "either you draw them, or don't" comment.
- Said wings, when you DO draw them (and evident with the headwings, too), seem to be an afterthought most often painted in via your image editor and lack any sort of definition. To be honest, they look like pieces of cloth and coat-hanger stickytaped to their back. (take that as you will, but that's the impression i get)
- There are numerous inconsistencies with the linework and coloring, like at the inking stage, you've forgotten to ink some lines in, again, like the wings, second panel, inner thigh of page 63, last panel of 64, left hand on lap looks as though you added that in after you scanned, just to name a few examples. it's things like these that show a lack of attention to detail. Which consequentially shows in the final product.
- Call it what you will, but the deformed shoulders and arm of felix in the latest just scream at me for all the wrong reasons. I don't care what anybody says here, but that's just bad anatomy. I've thought of playing 'devil's advocate' on this and say 'it's shapeshifting' but then i remember, it -should- be far more cleaner than that given the basic form shift.
- You do, however, draw hands well.
All i'm saying is, and it's a common gripe as far as i'm concerned (not just you, however) is that when folks say they improve, they just say it overall. As my mentor once said: "Talk is Cheap" basically if you say you're gonna improve, do so, at least show that you're capable of -trying- to improve by showing a sketch of your attempts or something.
If you think i'm being blunt? so be it, take into consideration that i'm trying to make a point here and not sugarcoating it with niceties.
However i do appreciate you not pulling a gabrielsthoughts and posting a rather large wall of text that i'd haveta read and type a rebuttal, possibly abusing the quote trees. :P
Hmm... Okay, now I'm curious: What do you two (Turnsky and WhiteFox) think the process of shapeshifting looks like?
Quote from: Inumo on October 16, 2010, 10:40:22 AM
Hmm... Okay, now I'm curious: What do you two (Turnsky and WhiteFox) think the process of shapeshifting looks like?
well, i'm going off the dmfa-verse as per DSoF, which has shown it to be a fairly subtle process overall.
Inumo: I'm not really sure. My general impression is that it's a smooth shift from one form to another, maybe with a few slight SFX. (In DMFA#621 (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_621.php), there's a slight glow around Dan's headwings.)
My first impression of shapeshifting came from DMFA 218 (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_218.php), and I thought it was a warpy-bendy transition. In retrospect, it's probably just the wings doing that when a 'cubi goes completely berserkus.
But... I'll be dead honest, I really like drawing warpy-bendy transformations. This is DMFAverse, but that doesn't mean I do everything exactly the way Amber does.
Quote from: Turnsky on October 16, 2010, 07:43:19 AM
All i'm saying is, and it's a common gripe as far as i'm concerned (not just you, however) is that when folks say they improve, they just say it overall. As my mentor once said: "Talk is Cheap" basically if you say you're gonna improve, do so, at least show that you're capable of -trying- to improve by showing a sketch of your attempts or something.
Capable of trying? If you want evidence of progress, read the actual comic. It has ups and downs, but I'm fairly confident that it shows steady improvement over time.
I don't share my sketches because I'm not looking for comments on them. If I'm sketching something, it's because I'm practicing or planning. I'm not looking for advice at that point. Besides, I do crap-tonnes of sketches and studies, and most of them are too messy to show because... well, they were never drawn to shown.
...But then, who doesn't love a good sketch dump?
I use 9x12, 100 page Canson Sketch books. I started my current one on Aug. 21st, and it's half full right now. Here's the highlights:
Shadow Study (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_01.png) I realized one of my microns was actually a blue-black rather than black. I did this with a black micron for the line, and the blue-black one for most of the shadows.
Eagle Head Study (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_02.png) Preparation for future Gryphon characters in DSoF.
Jade on a Cliff (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_03.png) Felt like drawing Jade using the thumbs on her wings for... something. This is more to play with her pose of the body and the wings rather then drawing the thumbs in particular. Man, I love drawing rocks like that.
Swoop! Rough Sketch (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_04.png) One of many, many, many sketches of winged figures. I don't share a lot of sketches, because they come out this messy.
Hand Study (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_05.png) Drawn from Real life. That is a picture of the hand I am using to draw the picture.
Fling! Rough Sketch (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_06.png) Some figure getting spun around in mid air.
Angled Head, Development Sketches (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_07.png) Okay, here's a good one. This is me trying to figure out how to draw a face at 30 degrees, rather then the 45 degree angle I usually use. I've been trying to figure this out for a while: in DSoF#61 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=61), the bridge of Emeline's nose is
super wide all the time because I hadn't nailed it down yet.
-The human face, second from the bottom, was drawn using visual reference. It's not an exact reproduction, but I had a ref pic on hand when I drew it. I had a realization at that point.
-The second human face, on the bottom, was done freehand using what I'd learned from the first human face.
-The half drawn anthro face, up above, was aborted because I didn't like how the lip and nose were turning out.
-The upper anthro face was the final one. What i'd figured out was that the distance between the eyes was one eyewidth, the distance from the corner of the eye to the ear was one eyewidth, and the distance from the jaw to the side of the neck was half an eyewidth. Once I pegged down those measurements, things somewhat fell into place.
...Then I played around with how to place the ears on the head, which is why they're drawn in three different places, ruining a perfectly decent diagram.
The next few are development sketches for Andrace, who will be making a cameo in DSoF shortly.
Rawr! Study (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_08.png) Drawing of a lionesses head.
Andrace Portrait, Rough Preliminary (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_11.png) Didn't like how the widening jawline looked.
Portrait, Second Version (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_09.png) Much better.
Profile, First Version (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_10.png) On the one hand, this looks very lion-ish. On the other hand, I don't think it seems right for Andrace's character.
Profile, Second Version (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_21.png) This is closer to how I usually draw feline faces in profile, but it doesn't look nearly as lion-ish. Final design will probably be somewhere in between
.
Felix Headlong (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_12.png) Practicing foreshortened poses, and paying particular attention to the anatomy on the arms and the position of the head, from that angle. Messed up the bicep on the far arm, probably since I placed the elbow and forearm before considering where the shoulder should be. D'oh! Something else I learned on this one: I need to do some studies on the hips for this pose.
-Sometimes I'll ink half-done sketches, just to practice using the pen.
Deltioid, Bicep, and Pectoral Muscles, Rough Sketch (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_13.png) (levels adjusted in Photoshop) Whenever I'm having trouble drawing a figure from one angle or the other, I'll do a quick one of these to get an idea of what should go where. I have literally
dozens of them. These usually take me about 2-5 minutes, depending on how much of the figure I'm drawing. This was probably a fiver.
DSoF pg.65, Panel 2 Rough Layout Sketch (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_15.png) I do a couple of these per panel. Lets me think about how much room I need for speech baloons, where to put them, and think about different ways to compose a shot. Of course, I suck at guesstimating how much room the bubbles need, and I usually think of ways to compose a shot that I don't actually know how to draw (especially if there are buildings in persepctive).
Herp derp durp. But I do it anyway, and give it my best shot, and ask for comments.
CCC#13: Baseel
Preliminary Sketch (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_14.png) This is the first version I did, before I knew what kind of outfit Baseel wore.
German Shepherd Study (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_20.png) (levels adjusted in Photoshop) Done from image reference. Wanted to get a better feel for the dog.
Final Sketch (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_18.png) This is the drawing I actually scanned and inked in digital. If I were going to ink something on paper, I'd clean it up a LOT more than this.
Character Development: Chassi
This is a Transformers character I wanted to do since... forever ago. There are a lot of things I do and don't like about all the different styles of Transformers, so I eventually decided to design one myself just the way I wanted. Which means I had to start drawing robots and vehicles.
I particularly wanted as much as possible for the robot to look like it was made out of parts of the vehicle, and I wanted the vehicle to look like a perfectly ordinary vehicle. Namely, a Lamborghini Diablo, which is hardly a perfectly ordinary vehicle.
...Should have gone with a Murceilago.
So, I came up with Chassis (Pronounced "Cassie"). She's kind of an army brat. I sketch her out every couple of months, and make some progress on her design a bit at a time. I hope make a 3D model of her one of these days, and see if I can animate the transformation.
Chassi: Alt- and Vehicle Mode development sketches (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_17.png) This is a recent full drawing I did to figure out where all the pieces of the robot go on the vehicle.
Head: Comes out of the engine area.
Torso: Rear of the car (Excluding tail lights) forms the abdominals and obliques. A third of the hatch for the engine compartment ends up on the upper chest, and the rest as the back. Rear wheels end up sitting on the shoulderblades, flat across the back.
Wingie Jetpack Things: Section above rear wheel well, from the tail lights to the roof. Yeah, I'm kinda ripping off Arcee with these, but they just look cool. Not sure how they attach to the back when the rear wheels are in the way... still under development.
Arm: Paneling between rear wheel-well and door. The vent in front of the rear wheel ends up on the forearm; in this sketch, I tried putting it on the deltoid to see how it would look there.
Battle Rifle: Roof of the car. Still in development.
Hips: Centre section of the hood, and the front bumper. If she had a decal on her hood near the windshield, it'd end up as tramp-stamp.
Thighs: (Not actually drawn in the sketch) Sides of the hood, and the front wheel well. The headlights end up on the sides of her hips pointing up.
Calves: Doors. The seats are drawn here on the inside of the calves. Not sure if they're to scale, though.
...I don't expect anyone to be able to actually follow all of this, but that's how I have it worked out so far.
So far, the only parts of her robot mode that aren't made up from parts of the vehicle mode are the head, feet, hands, and the lower/inner thighs. Those come out from inside or underneath of the vehicle, so I'm content with that right now.
Most recently, I did some work on how the rear of the car reconfigures into the torso. It's a pretty convoluted mess.
http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_16.png
I also did the math, and apparently Chassi comes out to about 5.2 meters in height.
(A lamb. Diablo is 2m wide. Assuming that the section that forms her chest is 1/2 the width of the car overall, her torso would be 1m wide. The chest is 2 times as wide as the head is wide, and the head is 2/3rds as wide as it is tall, making her head apx. 0.66m in height. If the overall height of a figure is 8 times the height of their head, Chassi would be 5.28m tall. When I did it on paper, I lost 8cm due to rounding)
And on a final note...
Ten Thousand Hands! (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_19.png) Well, maybe not, but 25 is still a bunch. These are simplified little diagrams I made of hands in various poses. Some of them are better than others.
Anyway... hope you enjoyed the tour. Comments appreciated.
Hmm, I don't have much to say about most of them. But for the lion sketch, the face seems blocky. Also, your third portrait link goes to the hands, not another portrait. ...As does your Final Sketch of the CCC gift.
In other news, Sheppy seems sad and miffed!
Quote from: Meany on October 17, 2010, 08:43:05 PM
Also, your third portrait link goes to the hands, not another portrait. ...As does your Final Sketch of the CCC gift.
Fix'd. 21 links, not entirely in sequential order. I was bound to mess up a few of them.
now see, this is what i intended to do, to challenge you. I realise i might not have been pleasant, but i figure it like this: if i can somehow get an artist to rise to a challenge via one way or another, all the better. If they back down or wall up, they're not worth the time of day, or at least a good solid heckling. :P
I also think that if you get less hung up about me being nice and more about trying to see whatever point i might be trying to get at, all the better. :)
Truthfully, work in progress sketching is a far better indicator of work than finished product, as they also show your process.. once you get into the nitty-gritty of things, it's easier to work out where one needs to improve.
It's quite well stated that Mythos in DMFA can get pretty weird. Daina and Aniad (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/dainaniad.jpg) here is at this point as weird a Mythos as I have ever come up with. This is a rough sketch, about 2 hours work start to finish, but it came out pretty well as a design concept. I was in #wf_studios (the IRC channel I set up on llearch.net for art/writing chat) when Meany proposed the idea of a Mythos with a decoy head... my brain immediately went in it's own direction, and ended up here.
Just so we're clear: that's two views of the same character. Well, they're two people, with one body. Does that count as one character or two? :. {Dhurr...)
Bending the lower arms like that is just so wrong for arms. Of the three standing poses I tried, though, it looked the best for legs.
Ideas for comics are already popping into my head:
(Waking up in the morning.)
Aniad: Heads or tails?
Daina: Flip you for it.
Aniad: Sure. (Gets out a coin) Heads or tails?
(Laugh track.)
Anyway... Comments appreciated.
I like the colour scheme, very dualistic. So the heads point opposite of one another? Or does the inactive head retract into the body? Another thing, wouldn't they be bit lower to the ground Daina is the legs, due to supporting Aniad's apparent superior muscle mass?
The final product is delightfully skewed from the original concept. :U Kudos for creativity.
Quote from: Meany on October 25, 2010, 11:04:43 AM
I like the colour scheme, very dualistic.
I'm amazed the brown didn't come out looking like crap. Literally.
Quote from: Meany on October 25, 2010, 11:04:43 AM
So the heads point opposite of one another? Or does the inactive head retract into the body?
The heads face back and upward. You can see Daina's horns under Aniad.
Quote from: Meany on October 25, 2010, 11:04:43 AM
Another thing, wouldn't they be bit lower to the ground Daina is the legs, due to supporting Aniad's apparent superior muscle mass?
I'd rather they both had a similar posture. Maintains duality.
Quote from: Meany on October 25, 2010, 11:04:43 AM
The final product is delightfully skewed from the original concept.
...and that's why I just had to do it. :3
Open NaNoWriMo IncentiveTo anyone on the forums participating in NaNoWriMo, I'm offering a free book cover illustration to anyone who reaches 35000 words before the end of the end of the month. Paperback sized, full colour. This is an open open offer, so it's not limited to the
first person to reach 35K, either.
Unless I get, like, fifty people. :B
Also as a note: The llearch.net IRC (http://llearch.net/irc/) chatroom I started for art discussion, #wf_studios, is open for written as well as visual work. Stop in some time.
Well, don't I just love to write. DSoF is being delayed because I decided to put my foot down and iron out a few shortcomings in my work (namely perspective). Normally, I just patch up a problem spot and tell myself to try better on the next page, but I'm tired of all the shoddy backgrounds.
That opened up a fair bit of time on my schedule, so I'm taking a shot at NaNoWriMo myself. Here's the story so far:
Title: None yet.
Concept: Airships are cool, and I'd like to do some fantasy that isn't Tolkein-esque.
Rating: PG-13, I guess. One minor instance of harsh language.
Current wordcount: About
7.8K 2K [EDIT] Here, WhiteFox learns the difference between
word count and
character count.
Ethan, draped carelessly in the lookout seat, listlessly thumbed his notebook. More than a thousand feet below him, an endless black ocean stretched from horizon to horizon.
It wasn't dead black, at least. The moon and stars reflected off the waveless salt water, creating the illusion that there was no ocean at all, but of an entire globe of sky surrounding him.
In the distance, straight ahead, a single spire of rock seemed to float in empty air, each half lit by twin moons.
To novice airshipmen, it was an unnerving illusion. Ethan had gone sailing through mirrored skies for countless nights though, and it was an encouraging sight to him. No clouds to hide privateers. No mottled reflections from waters thick with algae, seaweed, or bilge. Still water. Still air. Still flying.
It was quiet enough that he could hear the pulsing hum of the Ephenid's crystalline engines, above and behind him.
Ethan stopped thumbing his notebook, and opened it to a fresh page. Humming meant resonance. Resonance meant wasted energies. He began scripting runic symbols in coulombs, occasionally ciphering phrases into practical inscriptions on the facing page.
Force, flow, motion. All energy followed patterns. Patterns written with the eighteen essential runes, and ciphered into the phrases that could channel, change, and direct those energies.
Behind and below him, the Ephenid's engines channeled potential energies into motion, propelled his ship through a globe of stars.
If, and, or; greater, equal, lesser; true, false. Ethan's pen scratched black strokes across the page, ink flowing from the pen. Ephenid was something new. It used the same runes as any other airships engine, but the pattern was unique. The structure of the ship was unique. He'd spent the last four years scripting and ciphering, scraping together the resources to build it, and flying the ship as he was working it's kinks out.
Kinks like the hum from the mid-ship impeller conduit.
Ethan forced himself to stop writing. Rephrasing the ciphers for the middle impeller was pointless until the design of the envelope could be finalized. The long cylindrical spindle, filled with helium that kept the ship afloat, was creating too much resistance. It had finally gotten to the point where Ethan had to have it properly designed before the Ephenid could continue development.
He let out a sullen laugh. Here he was, captain of his own airship, master of the flows of intangible energies, and he didn't know a thing about airflow mechanics.
The spire of rock was much closer now. White moonlight blanched the crags and crevasses of the sheer, vertical rock face, but he could still pick out the crowns of forestry on it's cap and myriad ledges. He could still see struts and spars of protruding air docks and the terraced pavilions. The grand halls, running deep through the spire, lined with homes and workshops. The little secret passages children would hunt for, forgotten over ages. Paths along the cliffs barely a foot deep. Wrought iron lanterns hung on the wall, the smell of baking bread drifting through the air, and wood shavings scattered over the floor.
Ethan stood, tucked his notebook back into the breast pocket of his quilted leather tunic, and the wax pencil long with it. Rolling up his sleeve, he took a moment to shake his wrist out.
Everything had a pattern, even people. His body had legs, so his pattern walked. His body had eyes, so his pattern saw. Rolling up his sleeve, he began murmuring a cypher low in his throat, and tracing lines over his arm to accompany it. The runes weren't visible, but that didn't mean they weren't there.
Energy flowed. His
self flowed. The material of his tunic parted for him, and a pair of slender appendages molded out from his back. Then feathers extended from the appendages: secondaries first, primaries followed, then finally coverlets sheathed over the limb.
He ruffled the hawk wings, settling them comfortably. They weren't real, just a physical counterpart to the pattern he'd woven. Just as his body had wings, though, his pattern now flew.
Ethan kept his wings tucked for the moment, and picked up the intercom tube for the lookout station. He turned a ring at the base of grip, which shifted a section of the cypher, dialing in the bridge. "Basi." He said, and waited a moment.
"Basima."There was a quiet squawk from the intercom, then a reedy female voice answered. "Bridge."
"We're on approach to Graycliffe, and I'm winging over now. Bring Ephenid in at one quarter, and when the dock-masters flash tell them we're berthing at the Kaleman-Ferrier shipyard."
"Yes, Captain." She answered.
"They'll make some noise, but tell them that yes, we're absolutely certain that we're welcome there."
"Yes, Captain Ferrier." He could hear her smirking amusement through the speaker. He couldn't help but smile himself.
"When Deckan takes his shift, tell him we'll be suspending Ephenid at a gantry. I want him to cool down the engines and prep the ship for maintenance."
"Are we doing any overhauling?" She asked.
"No: the yard isn't large enough for that. We can re-script the ciphers and scrub out the works, though." Ethan answered.
"Drudge work for the next four days, contrue." She said.
"Drudge work coffal, Basi. for once, I can have the yardies handle it. " He said. This was probably the one shipyard in the ocean he wasn't afraid of having crawl through his engine.
"Yes, Captain!" Basima answered. The com fuzzed at the volume she spoke at. Her excitement was understandable: The Ephenid had a crew of less than half a dozen, and she was one of those that couldn't read patterns. That usually left her with a lot of scrubbing and polishing to do, but this time the crew could have a decent shore-leave.
"Make sure Deckan stays on the ship until get back, will you? I'm heading out."
Basima dropped back into a formal tone. "Captain is disembarking: contrue and logged. Fair winds, sir."
"Fair winds." Ethan set the receiver back on it's hook.
He spread his wings out, their wingspan measuring twice his body height, and took a running dive over the railing of the ship. He let himself fall, picking up speed. Air rushed around him, and the illusion of the unbounded night sky closed in once more: There was no ground, no horizon. No up or down. It was the Ephenid that was falling away from him, and he was the one that was floating in an ocean of stars.
He pulled out of his dive, and banked toward the Graycliffe pinnacle. Shortly he'd be finishing the longest journey he'd ever made, and was in fact the longest journey anyone ever made.
No matter how long you spent traveling, the trip home was always longer.
Ethan rode the currents all the the way in.
The inhabited face of Graycliffe came into view: windows, ledges, and decks covered the entire side of the rock face. Getting closer, the architectural details became clearer: fluted columns, ornamental railings, peaked arches of the doorways.
He approached one of the broader promenades, and back-winged to land. He rolled up his sleeve again, and deliberately wiped his forearm from elbow to wrist. As the ciphers cleared away, his wings faded from existence.
Ethan strode over to the main gate. A watchman sat in the booth guarded by a wrought iron grill, waiting patiently for the new arrival to approach on his own good time. Ethan didn't recognize him.
"Name and business?" The watchman asked.
"Ethan Ferrier. Personal business."
The watchman eyed him. "Y'have your fathers nose. I don't know your name, though." He said.
"I've been away for a few years."
"Apparently." He said, and picked up an intercom. "I'll see if your Master Ferrier is still awake."
"I'm not
here... to see my
father." Ethan said.
"Aye. I imagine he'll want to see you." He said, then looked up at Ethan. "If there's anything between you and your sire, it's no business of mine. But I can't let someone claiming to be family just walk in the door without someone coming seeing them in first."
Ethanís mouth tightened, but he didn't object as the watchman spoke into the intercom.
"Master Ferrier is in his office, but Carrigan will be down to greet you. The watchman said. "You can wait here till then."
Ethan nodded. "Thank you." He said, then stepped to the side and turned to lean his back against the stone column that bracketed the iron grill.
A few minutes later, the heavy wooden gate opened, and a portly man stepped out. He was wearing a heavy leather apron, and was still covered in soot from the furnace. Ethan straightened up as he approached. Carrigan had gray around his temples that hadn't been there the last time Ethan had seen him.
"Uncle Carrigan." Ethan said.
"Ethan." Carrigan said, and stuck out a hand. Ethan clasped it firmly. "I was starting to worry you'd taken to the heavens." Carrigan didn't release his grip on Ethan's hand.
"I came to see Jared" Ethan said.
"Tha's it? You came to see young Journeyman Burke?" Carrigan said.
"I didn't know he made Journeyman." Ethan replied.
"Well, you didn't stop to exchange the appropriate pleasantries, now did you?"
"Carrigan, I'm just here to talk with Burke." Ethan pulled his hand out of Carrigans.
Carrigan crossed his heavily muscled arms. "Your cousin Amalise is having another baby."
"'Another'?" Ethan said.
"Sean married the Reed's second daughter. Two years ago." His uncle continued.
"Well... congradulations to them both."
"Your mothers been worried about you."
"Carrigan!" Ethan barked. His uncle stopped, and waited to see just what Ethan would say.
"Look, I promise I'll make the rounds with everyone." Ethan said. "But... right now, I've got a ship coming to port, I have to speak with Burke, and I just flew for twenty minutes."
Carrigan eyed him. "Gray winds, boy, you work to hard. Burke's in his shop. I'll show you the way."
"Burke has a shop?" Ethan said.
Carrigan turned, and headed through the gate. "You have a ship?" He said.
The walk to Burke's shop took a few minutes. Their footsteps echoed through the vaulted avenue, a hallway five stories tall and wide enough for two dozen men to walk abreast.
Burke's shop turned out to be a small, personal one, large enough to house maybe two or three light craft at a time.
Burke himself was seated next to a half built frame. In one hand he had a brush to lay down glue, in the other hand were strips of seaweed, pressed and dried to exact thickness, cut and trimmed to exact width. His brush moved steadily and smoothly along as he built up layer after layer of laminated spans. Ethan stood patiently by the door, and Carrigan left wordlessly.
Burke finally set down his brush. "Thank you for waiting." He said, without looking over his shoulder.
"Burke." Ethan said.
Burke sat still for a moment, then stood and walked over to his workbench. "Ethan." He said, still not looking to the door. "You're back."
"Well... not really." Ethan said. "I'm not done yet."
"Really?" Burke started putting his materials away, sorting the dried strips into the shelves by width, resealing his bottle of glue. "After all that fuss you made about not coming back till you were done."
"Yeah. I... kinda expect I'll get some turbulence about that."
"I'll bet." Burke said, and started cleaning his brush out. "So, why are you back then?"
"I need someone who knows about framework." Ethan said. "The engine works, Burke. The ship flies as it is, but I need a proper design for the framework."
"Right." Burke finished cleaning, and hung the brush on a pegboard with all his other tools. He dried his hands off, finally turned, and took a moment to look at Ethan. "You're broader in the shoulders than the last time I saw you."
"Well, manning a ship builds muscle the same way building one will." Ethan said. He fished out his notes book. "Look, I have the specs here." He took a folded piece of paper out from a pocket on the inside of the cover.
He ran his thumb along one edge, wiping away a brief cipher. The paper unfolded, expanding like a blossoming flower, till it was stack of sheets three feet by two feet. "At least look at them."
Burke sat at his bench, and Ethan laid out the stack of papers. Burke flipped through them halfheartedly. "What am I looking at, Ethan?"
"It's the impeller design I came up with. It works."
"So what am I looking at here?" Burke said.
"Well, impellers draw in air, and push it back out to generate thrust. Ducting around them increases the efficency." Ethan said. "Ciphered impellers are the most energy efficent drives there are."
"Right. I know that." Burke said. "I work with more than just prop-craft and gliders, Ethan."
Ethan continued. "So, there's all kinds of factors to consider. The dimensions of the impellers and ducting are more or less efficient for different weights and speeds. It's like not being able to shift gear. Impellers are more efficient than most other engines, but they can't be used as main drives for airships because the size and weight they'd have to be to generate enough propulsion for cruising speeds would be ridiculous. The duct alone would weigh more than the rest of the entire ship"
"Right." Burke said. "So what am I looking at?"
"The Ephenid has a cylindrical envelope."
"All airships have cylindrical balloons." Burke said.
"No, I mean, it's a giant tube. The envelope
itself holds the helium and acts as a duct for the impellers."
"You're joking. The stress would..." Burke started, but Ethan cut him off.
"The drives are high volume, low pressure." Ethan said. "Trading high force for high mass lowers the stress on the envelope, and still generates acceleration."
"The impellers would have to be huge."
"Fourteen yards across. The energy cost is substantial, the conduits are high impact, the capacitors are minimal. It's all on paper."
"Ethan." Burke said.
"Burke, it
works. I
built it, it
flies.
It's a real thing. In the morning, you can see it
with your own two eyes!"
"Ethan. What am I looking at."
"Look at the damn blueprints, Burke!" "
Ethan. I'm not looking at the schematics. I'm not looking at the boat." Burke said.
Ethan shut his mouth.
"What am I looking at." Burke said.
"You're looking at me," Ethan said finally, " I can't do this on my own."
"That's right." Burke said. "You can't."
Ethan continued. "You know a lot more about aerodynamics and frame design than I do."
"That's right. I do." Burke said.
"I need your help." Ethan finished.
"Yes, you do." Burke said, and spread his arms. "And that's the end of
that."
Ethan let out a terse breath. "Are you going to say 'I told you so?'"
Burke stood, and rolled the sheets of diagrams up. "No... I've been waiting too long to see how this ship of yours turned out to waste time
crowing." He said. "I'll look these over tonight. I can tour the ship in the morning."
[EDIT] Removed the part where I explain a whole lot of stuff. I need to know if the story is comprehensible as it stands, and providing reference material would probably "corrupt" feedback in that regard.
If anyone is curious, or confused, feel free to ask.
First, minor stuffs. Spelling and etc.
Section 1:QuoteHe began scripting runic symbols in coulombs, occasionally ciphering phrases into practical inscriptions on the facing page.
Since "cipher" is going to be one of the most used words in this, and the fact that it's one of the trickier words in english, I better do this first. "cipher" as a verb means "to calculate", but to put something into a cipher is "encipher" and to translate it into plain text is "decipher". In terms of verbage, the word is similar to "code" and "crypt". As for "coulombs", I don't know if you mean a unit of electrical charge, or "columns". (The keys are right next to each other on the keyboard. So, I figured it was a possible typo.)
QuoteRolling up his sleeve, he began murmuring a cypher low in his throat, and tracing lines over his arm to accompany it. The runes weren't visible, but that didn't mean they weren't there.
More common spelling of "cipher". I point this out only for consistency, and the fact that spellcheck won't point it out to you.
Quote"Drudge work for the next four days, contrue." She said.
Wiktionary didn't return any results for "contrue".
Quote"Drudge work coffal, Basi. for once, I can have the yardies handle it. " He said.
Ditto for "coffal".
Section 2:QuoteEthan's mouth tightened, but he didn't object as the watchman spoke into the intercom.
Typo.
Quote"Well... congratulations to them both."
"Your mother's been worried about you."
Typo and typo.
QuoteCarrigan eyed him adj. "Gray winds, boy, you work to hard. Burke's in his shop. I'll show you the way."
Missed opportunity. Does the news that Ethan have his own airship catch him by surprise? Does it improve how Carrigan views Ethan? Or, does he not even bat an eye? Well, I honestly don't know. A few of these aren't anything to be overly concerned about, but when you're trying to show interactions between characters, it can add up.
Section 3:Quote"Really?" Burke started putting his materials away, sorting the dried strips into the shelves by width, then resealing his bottle of glue. "After all that fuss you made about not coming back till you were done."
Grammar thing. Another nitpick.
Quote"Yeah. I... Kinda expect I'll get some turbulence about that."
This one is one of the things that annoys the crap outta me in my own writing. I've never been able to figure out if words following ellipses should be capitalized or not. Back when I started, MS Word kept bugging me about making it capitalized, so I started doing that. (Up until it REALLY started annoying the crap outta me, and then I disabled it's grammar checking "feature".)
Quote"Well, impellers draw in air, and push it back out to generate thrust. Ducting around them increases the efficiency." Ethan said. "Ciphered impellers are the most energy efficient drives there are."
Double misspelling.
Quote"Look at the damn blueprints, Burke!"
Just a personal thing of mine, but I prefer to use italics on just the dialogue itself, not the quotation marks as well. (Yeah, it's more annoying, but it focuses emphasis on the dialogue itself.)
Bigger Fish:Part 1: As you know, I'm incredibly fond of character descriptions. While they may be long, boring, and contain a seemingly excessive amount of irrelevant info (Such as hair color, skin color, eye color, clothes they're wearing, etc.) it helps in ways that aren't obvious at first.
1: Clothes don't make the man, but they help make first impressions. (And that's what people do when they meet someone new, they give them a quick look-over. Heck, most don't even notice.)
2: It's a handy snapshot of what they're like at the beginning of a story. (Thus, making it easier to tell how they change during the story's events. It they don't change, then they're not dynamic and/or usually boring. People learn and grow because of the experiences they have. Your characters should too.)
3: It SHOWS what the character is like, rather than just out and telling the reader. (The reader, if they pay attention, also gets a number of clues about their behavior if you can pull it off correctly.)
4: First impressions are not only used to show what a character is like, but what the main character thinks of them. (Again, more protagonist insight/identification/relation to the reader.)
5: Spies, liars, thieves, users, and back-stabbers can and SHOULD use this to their advantage.
I have to stop and move on, but anyway, the reason I mention this is that there's no character description for Ethan. None what-so-ever. While the reader is free to "fill in the blanks", I figured he was an anthro squid at first. (Heh, not really, but I could've.) Have you ever played "Mad Libs"? Try it sometime. That's what you can get from a lack of descriptions. Plus, this is a NOVEL, not a short story. In novels, the writer has PAGES they can use to set the mood if they so desire. They can also use it to set up disappointment and mind-screwing too. Like describing a wardrobe that's only ever mentioned once, or a gun hanging on a mantle that's never used during a zombie attack. (Especially if you want to portray the characters as too dumb to let live.)
Names can also be used to slip info to the reader. For example, "Ethan" is a Hebrew name for "Strong, firm". and thus, sounds pretty apt. (Props on doing the research, BTW.)
Second major fish to fry, is the use of "Said". In the section you posted, "Said" is used 38 times. (Yes, I counted. Feel free to double-check, I might have miscounted.) "Said" is one of those words that's horribly,
horribly overused until it has no meaning. While it still remains useful IN dialogue, it's boring as hell when referring TO dialogue. In short, it's one of those words that should ONLY be used when you've got nothing else to use. (And if you've got nothing else to use, it's time to look up some adjectives.) It's not going to really hurt anything to keep using it, but it makes it as exciting as this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcH-3d-BZn4). (And even then, I'd use "mono-toned".)
Long story short: Make your characters more interesting by actively avoiding "said".
EDIT: Oh crap.. Almost forgot... YES, the story is comprehensible as it is. The pacing seems like a good start, and it already seems like events are picking up.
Quote from: Drayco84 on November 03, 2010, 01:28:43 PM
Since "cipher" is going to be one of the most used words in this, and the fact that it's one of the trickier words in english, I better do this first. (Insert explination)
This is much appreciated. I'll probably be misusing the terms deliberately in dialog, since the characters will be a bit more colloquial about it, but I'd like to keep things straight in narration.
Quote from: Drayco84 on November 03, 2010, 01:28:43 PM
Wiktionary didn't return any results for "contrue".
Ditto for "coffal".
They're slang. Their meaning isn't made fully apparent till the next chapter, tho.
Quote from: Drayco84 on November 03, 2010, 01:28:43 PM
QuoteCarrigan eyed him adj. "Gray winds, boy, you work to hard. Burke's in his shop. I'll show you the way."
Missed opportunity. Does the news that Ethan have his own airship catch him by surprise? Does it improve how Carrigan views Ethan? Or, does he not even bat an eye? Well, I honestly don't know. A few of these aren't anything to be overly concerned about, but when you're trying to show interactions between characters, it can add up.
Actually, this is the sort of thing I worry about. Carrigan doesn't bat an eye, but the only thing I did to imply this was that I didn't suggest a reaction at all. D'oh.
Quote from: Drayco84 on November 03, 2010, 01:28:43 PM
Quote"Yeah. I... Kinda expect I'll get some turbulence about that."
This one is one of the things that annoys the crap outta me in my own writing. I've never been able to figure out if words following ellipses should be capitalized or not.
Personally? I don't use caps when it's a pause in the sentence, and I do use them if the sentence is trailing off.
Usually not, tho.
Quote from: Drayco84 on November 03, 2010, 01:28:43 PM
As you know, I'm incredibly fond of character descriptions. While they may be long, boring, and contain a seemingly excessive amount of irrelevant info (Such as hair color, skin color, eye color, clothes they're wearing, etc.) it helps in ways that aren't obvious at first.
(Insert several very good points.)
I have to stop and move on, but anyway, the reason I mention this is that there's no character description for Ethan.
A very good point. I hate exposition that breaks the flow of a story, but you're right: not giving the reader any visuals at all is worse.
I've already included details about Ethan's appearance in the next chapter, but I can think of another character that I haven't given any description of.
Quote from: Drayco84 on November 03, 2010, 01:28:43 PM
Names can also be used to slip info to the reader. For example, "Ethan" is a Hebrew name for "Strong, firm". and thus, sounds pretty apt. (Props on doing the research, BTW.)
I do take time to research names, actually. Ethan I came up with on the spot, but Basima means "smiling" in Arabic. Ethan's last name is Ferrier, which is appropriate for his family and sounds cool, but doesn't sound like a pulpy action hero's name. I hope.
Quote from: Drayco84 on November 03, 2010, 01:28:43 PM
Second major fish to fry, is the use of "Said". In the section you posted, "Said" is used 38 times. (Yes, I counted. Feel free to double-check, I might have miscounted.) "Said" is one of those words that's horribly, horribly overused until it has no meaning.
Long story short: Make your characters more interesting by actively avoiding "said".
Oof... we might have a difference of opinion on this one.
I don't like being wordy. I never use two words where one better word will do. I avoid adjectives and adverbs as much as possible.
"Said" is practical. I use it when a character says something. I'll use "shouted," "answered," or "whispered" where appropriate, but I try to convey the speakers expression through the dialog itself.
As much as I don't want to get flowery... You're dead right about it getting repetitive. The more recent chapters have a little more variety, but I'm definitely going to be more aware of this. Thanks for pointing it out.
Quote from: Drayco84 on November 03, 2010, 01:28:43 PM
EDIT: Oh crap.. Almost forgot... YES, the story is comprehensible as it is. The pacing seems like a good start, and it already seems like events are picking up.
Oh, thank the heavens.
The next two oarts of my NaNoWriMo book.
Current total Wordcount: 7.7K (including Part 4, which is mostly written, but has yet to be posted)
I decided to go for 2K words a day, which leaves me a few days of leeway at the end of the month.... I'm starting to lag.
Feedback appreciated... Constructive comments aside, I have no idea if this story is, like, actually interesting. Or at all "good." :B
Ethan woke the next morning short on sleep: his visit with Burke had kept him fretting for half the night. His father wouldn't be impressed if Ethan had been up any later than dawn, though.
He'd had a hard time going to sleep anyway... Burke's impending visit had kept him fretting for hours.
Ethan stretched, and sat up in his cot. As the ships captain, it was a luxury. The rest of the crew got hammocks.
His own personal cabin, though cramped, was a luxury as well. He crossed the room in two steps, and started pulling clothes out of his wardrobe. He probably wasn't expected to wear anything flamboyant. His family owned half the largest shipyard in Graycliffe, but that was like owning the largest branch on a sapling. Graycliffe was a small community, in the middle of a remote and rarely frequented current of the ocean. The shipyard rarely had anything larger than a cruiser docked at their gantries, and the hangers were only large enough to accommodate airships half the size of the Ephenid. The only business that came passing through were usually courior ships stopping by for fuel and polish. The cities main work was small ship construction, sold on the open market.
He dressed as he would for any day of work. First was a tight vest of silk with strips of steel riveted to it. The light armor protected him from blades and fists as much as it had from occupational hazards of working on an airship. Then he put on a long sleeved shirt with loose sleeves that buttoned up at the wrist, and over that went a quilted leather tunic, with pockets on the outside and a layer of insulation on the inside. Heavy canvas trousers that widened at the cuffs, a belt with half a dozen pouches, and a pair of soft soled boots that laced up to the calves.
The last thing he took out wasn't part of his usual dress. A white cap with a black brim, and a brass badge on the front with the heraldry of Baron Aruma. Regalia of a ships captain. It lacked the gold braid across the front that denoted command of a warship, but it had a striking presence regardless.
Ethan had to bribe an inspector to certify his ship as up to code. His engines were prototypes, and wouldn't have fallen under any existing classification, so there would have been no way to certifiy it. At the same time, he was loathe to let anyone take a close look at the Ephenid, so it was just as well that he'd had to dodge an actual inspection.
Otherwise, his cap was completely valid. He'd run through all his own certification diligently. Done all the bureaucracy to have his vessel registered. Met with the baron in person, shook his hand, and received his charter. Even his father couldn't fault the fact that he had every right to sail his ship.
Ethan set his cap on his head, gave it a tug to straighten it, and turned to leave his cabin.
As Ethan stepped into the galley, Deckan stepped up to meet him. The young boy had already assembled a tray of food, which sat waiting for the captain on one of the two long tables.
"Captain." Deckan said. "The engines are cool, and I put the cap on the envelope."
Ethan wiped his face, as much to clear the sleep from his eyes as to hide his dismay. "Mmph. The cap will have to be taken off; I'll be giving someone a tour of the ship, and he'll need a good look at the envelope."
The kid's eyes widened, and the white contrasted sharply against his heavily tanned skin and raven black mop of hair. "Sir?"
"A friend." Ethan explained. "I've known him since I was a child. I trust him."
Deckan nodded. "Yes, sir." He turned to leave, but Ethan interrupted him..
"Deckan, wait. Have you had breakfast?" He said.
"No, sir. Not yet." Deckan answered.
"Then sit. and eat." Ethan jabbed a finger toward the kitchen, then at the bench. Deckan nodded, and darted off to collect a meal for himself.
Deckan was a lanky brat, all elbows and knees. Ethan fed him well, but the boy never seemed to put on weight. The boy was a Duner, a tribal people that lived on desolate stretches of sandbars. They were all a little long and gaunt than seemed normal for a human, but Ethan had assumed it was from lean eating. Deckan had been on the crew for three years, and fed well, but had gained more inches than pounds in all that time.
At least the boy dressed himself fully these days. It'd taken Ethan months to get him to wear more than a beech-clout and reeds.
Evan ate quickly, and took a moment to jot down a few phrases in his notebook while Deckan finished his meal. The boy ran both their trays back to the kitchen, and when he came came back out Ethan waved for him to follow.
"Deckan, I'll want you on hand today. Someone else can remove the cap." He said.
Deckan nodded, and moved to stand beside and just behind the captain.
Ethan stepped out of the mess hall, and down the main corridor of the ship. "Who's up and about right now?" He asked.
"Peridal is on flag watch, Sestheese-Serin is scraping the hull." Deckan answered.
A grin crept onto Ethan's face. "Well... since she's out there already, we might as well have Serin take the cap off."
"Yes sir." Deckan said, and took off down the hall to pass Ethan's orders along.
Ethan needlessly shuffled his cap to straighten it, and stepped lightly as he headed up on deck.
"Peridal." Ethan said. "Pass me the flags for a moment."
Peridal nodded, and handed Ethan the pair of semaphore flags that he'd been in charge of. Ethan stepped closer to the railing, and waved until he had the attention of the dock's flag watcher.
Awaiting Y-M. Everette Ferrier. Ethan waved. Confirm present?
Presence of Y-M on terrace confirmed true. The yardman waved back. Confirm ready to receive?
Readiness confirmed true. Ephenid captain disembarking. Ethan waved back. The yardman made a breif wave of acknowledgment.
Ethan passed the flags back to Peridal. "Let everyone know they're on shore leave as soon as the gantries are put in place." He said. "I just have to go over the particulars with the yard master."
A grin broke over Peridal's craggy, stubbed face. "Aye sir. They'll be glad t'hear it." He said. "Y'have any recommendations for a tavern?"
"Why, Peridal, what makes you think I know the place?" Ethan said.
Peridal crossed his arms. "I dunno, maybe because the yardman has the same accent with the flags as you do." He answered.
Ethan shook his head. "A'right, then. I know a hole or two where your mug won't scare the ladies away. I'll show you there myself, after business with my father is taken care of."
"That's just fine, as long as the ladies don't scare me away." Peridal said, and saluted with a quick flick near his temple. "Fair winds to your father."
Ethan nodded. "I hope so... might have him in a better mood." He said.
Ethan rolled up one sleeve and traced the cipher for his wings. When he finished, Peridal was offering him a hand.
"Thank you, Peridal." Ethan said. He planted his foot on Peridal's palms, and braced one hand on the older crewman's shoulder.
"Fair winds to you too, lad." Peridal said, and launched Ethan over the railing.
Ethan circled around the Ephenid before he went for the terrace of the shipyard. The ship was parked up against the wall of the cliffs, waiting for the yardmen to swing out the catwalks and cranes that would let them work over the ship. He banked away at last, gliding over to the broad expanse of the shipyards main terrace, where dozens of yardies were already busying themselves with morning work.
Ethan landed, and wiped the cipher off his arm. He saw Burke further down the yard... as well as his father. The family resemblance was strong: he shared the same straight nose, thick reddish brown hair, and muted green eyes. Ethan was notably shorter than his father and his jaw a little thinner, and he had his mother to thank for that. Otherwise, he was very much his father's son.
Ethan straightened his tunic, and stood upright as he approached the two of them.
"Father." He said, and made a curt nod of the head.
"Captain Ferrier." His father answered, grinning. The tone caught Ethan off guard. He expected his father to brandish the title as a curse, not an accolade.
The elder Farrier half turned to regard the Ephenid. "Burke made it sound like the ship was one of a kind. I don't see what sets her ahead of the fleet, though." He said.
"Over this way." Ethan said, and headed down the terrace. "There's a facade we put over the nose of the envelope whenever we stop at port. It... dissuades curiosity over the unique design. I neglected to tell the crew we wouldn't be needing it here."
His father nodded. By the time they'd reached a proper vantage point to look at the front of the ship, Sestheese-Serin was more than half-way done retracting the collapsing framework that held the false patch of canvas in place.
Everette voiced his reaction with one word: "Oh."
Burke was a little more verbose. "Ethan... You're an idiot." He said. "You're a genius, but you're an idiot."
"I thought we established that yesterday." Ethan said.
"Yes, well, I had to see it for myself." Burke explained. "Your problem isn't drag. In cross section, the envelope is shaped like a wing."
Ethan nodded. "Right."
"It's a cylinder. The bottom is an upside down wing, and the sides are wings that point port and starboard. It's generating 'lift' that pulls the whole envelope outwards. It's wasting energy canceling itself out, and if you press it too hard it'll pull itself to pieces." Burke said. He scratched the back of his neck. "Really, I'm surprised it hasn't already. No wonder you have to keep the impeller strength low."
Ethan digested this for a moment.
"Oh," he said finally.
"Ethan." Everette said. "Do you have notes for the engine ciphers?"
Ethan nodded, and took out his notebook. It felt odd handing it to someone, after so many years he'd kept it so close to the chest .
Everette flipped through it. "Your handwriting is a mess."
"They're development notes, father. I keep a proper set of schematics in my cabin." Ethan said.
"Why didn't you bring those?" His father asked.
"I didn't think you'd want to see them." Ethan said.
Everette snapped out and smacked Ethan upside the back of the head with the notebook. "Of course I'd want to see them. The boat's in my dock, isn't it?" He was back to reading the notebook as quickly as he'd attacked Ethan with it. "You're using futhark?"
"They're just development notes." Ethan said. "Futhark is faster to write."
"Aye, and they're easy to misread when your hand is a mess." Everette said. He closed the book. "There's no point in taking notes you can't read later. Still... I'll be looking forward to looking over the engines." He said, and handed the notebook back to Ethan. "I'll have the foremen put the gantries in place, and as soon as they have the schematics, they can start scrubbing everything down." Everette started tracing a short cipher onto the back of one hand, then the other.
Ethan coughed. "Father... uh, we should settle docking fees first, shouldn't we?"
A gossamer sheet of iridescent material fell from the senior Farrier's wrists and finger. Everette waved to catch the attention of the docks flag watcher, and started waving orders swiftly. "Don't be absurd, Ethan." His father said, speaking at the same time as he waved. "You're family. I'm not going to charge my son for coming home."
He finished waving, wiped the back of his hands, and nodded to Ethan in farewell. "Your mother is expecting to see you around mid-day. Be sure to make some time for her."
Ethan nodded in consent, and his father turned to leave without further ado. Ethan watched him leave, till he lost sight of him among the urgency of yardmen rushing to work.
"That was... Straightforward." Ethan said.
"Were you expecting more of a fuss?" Burke asked.
"I dunno. I was expecting... something." Ethan said. "Anything at all, really."
The massive wooden frameworks of the Kaleman-Ferrier shipyards swung outward from the cliff walls, and closed against the Ephenid like a gigantic spindly hand coming to rest. Yardmen began running along the catwalks, opening sections of the airships lower hull. As Ethan led Burke along, he saw his crew finally disembarking. The gaggle was in high spirits.
Deckan scampered up to Ethan. "Captain. Sestheese-Serin is finished with the cap."
Ethan nodded. "Is she still up in the rigging?"
Deckan nodded. "At the moment."
"Very well." Ethan said. "Run up to my cabin, get the schematics for the Ephenid, and run them out to the dock foreman."
Deckan nodded again, and took off back up the catwalk. Even though it was just over a yard wide, and suspended two hundred feet above ocean waves that pounded sheer limestone rock face, the youth sprinted the whole way.
"Ethan." Burke said. "Why do you have a Duner for a cabin boy?"
"He's a smart kid," Ethan answered, "and he's the captains valet, not the cabin boy. I got him about three years back, and he's hasn't stopped being useful since."
Burke looked at Ethan crosswise. "Wait. You 'got' him?"
"Uh... yeah." Ethan said, and rubbed the bridge of his nose. "I crashed a fixed-wing craft on an atoll. The Duners there helped me put things back together for some rations. I found out Deckan saw patterns, so I showed him a thing or two about 'scripting and he gave me a hand fixing up the engines."
"How did he end up with you then?" Burke said.
"The Duners caught on that I found him useful, so... well, they traded him to me."
Burke stopped in his tracks. "What?" He said. His tone was dead flat.
"They traded him to me. A few brass tools, and a pair of knives."
"Ethan. You bought him?" Burke said. "I mean... really. You bought a person.[/i"
Ethan held up his hands. "Burke, look, I know! I felt bad about it for weeks. Do you know how patterners in Duner tribes live? It would have been worse if I'd left him there!" Ethan said. "I treat him properly, and Deckan's never complained about shipping out with me. Besides, he's the only other 'scripter on the crew. He's the only one I've needed yet, too."
Burke kept his eyes locked on Ethan for a moment, then continued walking. "'Deckan' doesn't sound like a Duner name."
"Um. It's not, I gave it to him. He didn't have a name when got him." Ethan said.
"Why Deckan?" Burke asked.
"It's short for 'deck hand.' We just kind of got used to calling him that."
Burke looked over at Ethan again, but Ethan kept his eyes straight ahead, wordlessly.
"Ethan." Burke said. "You're a terrible person."
"You're going to wear my name out at this rate." Ethan said.
"I'll get you a new one when I do." Burke said. "And you'll deserve it."
As they reached the main deck of the Ephenid, Serin was just slithering down from the side of the envelope.
Ethan had known her for two years, so he was used to the sight, but Burke had never seen a Wave-snake before. He froze in shock, then jumped back even though Serin was several yards away still, coming down the opposite side of the ship. He was wild eyed and fumbling for a utility knife at his hip, but Ethan put a hand on his shoulder.
"Burke, easy." Ethan said. This was the first time he'd seen Burke react to anything with something other than mild indifference.
"Ethan! What the hell is that thing?!" Burke shouted.
"Oh, that's right..." Ethan said. "You've never seen a wave snake before, have you?" He waved at the serpentine crewman. "Serin! Come over here and meet a friend of mine!" He shouted across the deck.
Sestheese-Serin twisted around to look at the captain. She wasn't on the rigging: her serpentine body from the ribcage down was coiled around one of the heavy cables that secured the gondola to the envelope. She writhed like a line of smoke as she settled onto the deck, and slithered over to the two of them. Her blue-green scales shone in the mid-morning sunlight, and back lit translucent membranes between her ribs and her upper arms, seemed to glow. Her head was a roughly human in shape except that her nose was flat across, little more than two ridges that came down from her eyes that ended in a pair of slits to breath through. Her eyes were almond shaped, and deep amber in colour. Without hips or a bust, the only hint of her gender was a languid swaying as she slithered.
"This is crewman Serin." Ethan said. "Careful, Burke... She's bites, and she's venomous."
Serin squinted at Ethan, irritated. "Ethan, would it please you not to jest of such as that." she said. She bowed to Burke. "Sestheese-Serin." She added, and stuck out her hand. Burke took it firmly. "Salutations, Burke." She nodded to Ethan. "I shall be making shore leave, captain. Fair winds." She said with a nod.
"Fair winds." Ethan answered.
Serin turned to leave, but approached the railing rather then the gangplank. She coiled, and sprung over the edge. She spread her arms, using the membranes to help her glide, and rolled into a mass of coils as she hit the terrace.
Burke stared as she unfurled and slithered toward the main gates into Graycliffe. "That was..." He started, but after a moment or two passed he failed to finish.
"Yeah." Ethan said. "She's like that. Come on, I'll take you up to the envelope." He said.
"Is she really venomous?" Burke asked.
"Yes." Ethan said firmly. "She has six inch long fangs that fold back into her mouth."
Burke blinked at Ethan for a moment, then gestured. "Shall we?" He said.
Ethan nodded. "Let's."
Burke followed Ethan to the Ephinid's prow, and started scaling the rigging.
"You were looking forward to that, weren't you?" Burke said.
"No, actually." Ethan said. "I was looking forward to introducing her to my father, but he left before I had the chance to call her over."
Burke climbed in silence for a moment, then: "You set that up, didn't you?"
Ethan had a silent moment of his own. "Yeah... I did. Or I tried to, at least."
"I doubt he would have been amused."
"Probably not." Ethan replied.
The rest of the climb was quiet.
Burke took a good deal of time to examine and admire the inside of the envelope: the tunnel through the envelope was cavernous. Burke couldn't perceive patterns, so the permanently inscripted ciphers on the impellers were invisible to him, but they were an impressive sight anyway. Impellers were rarely more than three yards across, and these were nearly five times that. Smooth amber stones the size of a grown man, suspended by ornate brass lattices, refracted the traces of sunlight that reached them onto the skin of the envelope. They traveled all the way up the rope bridge hanging in the center of the cavern, till Burke reached out and put a hand on the translucent ovoid.
"Beautiful." Burke said. Ethan felt a swell of pride: Burke rarely made idle praise. His hand lingered as it slid off the surface. "Why amber, and not industrial quartz?"
Ethan shook his head. "Couldn't find any crystals large enough. These are artificial, actually. I took a vat of resin and ciphered it till it was solid enough for what I needed." He answered. "It's rough material to work with, but it does the job."
"I didn't know you could permanently cipher a liquid." Burke said.
"You can't. It'd have to be re-scripted constantly." Ethan replied. "After I applied a cipher that made the liquid resin solid, I added another one that kept solid resin solid, and removed the first. That was tricky."
"I can imagine." Burke said and took a little more time to appreciate the elaborate structure.
"The cipher only works for one particular type of resin." Ethan continued, just to fill the silence. "I had to go pretty far out on the Greenmire Current to just to find enough of it. That's where I picked up Deckan... Basima, too."
Burke turned, ready to go. "Basima?" he asked.
"She's one of the crew." Ethan replied, and started heading back out. "We passed her on the gantry: tall, olive skinned, green hair. A few facial piercings."
Burke nodded. "I remember."
The trip to the engine room was brief: the swaths of filigree looked similar to any other ships engine, and since Burke couldn't read them, he couldn't see what made them unique. Ethan made a stop at his cabin to deposit his cap: wearing it always felt strange to him. They went back on deck after, where Ethan ciphered flight for both of them, and they spent a while circling the Ephenid. Burke looked over every inch of the hull of the gondola, the six smaller maneuvering impellers at the rear mounted on swiveling struts, and the cables that suspended the gondola from the balloon.
After a few hours, Ethan ciphered a pair of flags the same as his father had, and waved to Burke: Mother expecting a visit. Must attend. He waved.
Burke used his arms to waved the shorthand for "confirmed true," and Ethan banked towards the main terrace. Deckan, having delivered the Ephenid's schematics to the yards foreman, caught up with him as he landed.
"Deckan, I'll be visiting my mother. You can stay on board the Ephenid if you wish."
Deckan shook his head, Ethan nodded, and the two of them headed through the main gates leading to Graycliffe's city proper.
Notes:
-I'm using "cipher" as a noun when properly speaking, I should be using "ciphertext" or something along those lines. As a noun Cipher (by one definition of several) is a method of encryption, while an encrypted piece of material is ciphertext. Seeing as how I find "ciphertext" really cumbersome, I think I'm going to continue misusing "cipher" in it's place.
-There's more description of Graycliffe's interior in the next chapter. You can thank Drayco for that.
-Ditto for patterns, inscriptions, ciphers, phrases, runes, and Names. Ditto for Drayco.
I'm just going to take a moment to enshrine my halloween avatar.
Skulls are fun to draw:
(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/avatar3.jpg)
There's no higher res: that's the size it was drawn at.
I've had a draft of this in progress for... about a year, I think. Recently, I figured out how to sum it up in four panels, so I did a comic for it.
WhiteFoxes' "How To Talk To Artists," Pt.1 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/wf_htta.png) How to say something useful.
I posted this in the Long Library (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,7901.0.html), but I thought I'd post it here in case anyone had comments on it as a comic, as opposed to the material of the guide itself. So... discussion on the art/design here, thoughts on it's content over there. I guess.
All the example comments are (closely) paraphrased from ones that I have gotten from people in the #wf_studios irc chatroom, on llearch.net. So, thanks to the people there for being cool-awesome to hang with.
Pg. 1 of Gabriel's Backstory Comic (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4759347) (FA) [NSFW] Mild Nudity
95% of this was done on paper, with nib pens and india-ink. A number of dead black areas were added in photoshop (upper right corners of panel 5 and 6) because that much ink would have warped the paper. Did some minor touch-ups and the panels in Photoshop, too.
I jumped into a lot of new territory on this one. Trying things with perspective and panel borders, for one, and this is my first time doing any real hatching in ink (ran into a lot of problems, but figured most of them out by the time I was done with the page).
I can't believe the scanner didn't chew this up completely.
Anyway. I'd really like to hear what people think. A lot of spots are done in different ways, and I have no idea which ones work better than others.
15 pts if anyone figures out what I did with the perspective.
Having seen this in progress, I can say that the completed shading adds a lot of depth to the comic. My eyes keep coming back to the bottom three panels, especially the fifth and seventh ones. The shading adds a lot to Gabriel's fur and clothes, too. He didn't look all that thin in the work-in-progress, but now, he looks somewhat under-nourished, and his clothes look kind of big on him.
The only thing that stood out at me as seeming a little off was his neck in the first panel; it looks a little long to me. All in all, though, awesome job, can't wait to see more! c:
Quote from: Liatai on November 09, 2010, 12:24:19 AM
Having seen this in progress, I can say that the completed shading adds a lot of depth to the comic. My eyes keep coming back to the bottom three panels, especially the fifth and seventh ones. The shading adds a lot to Gabriel's fur and clothes, too.
That's twice someone's mentioned panel five... I wasn't expecting that. Are there any particular places where the shading is more "meh," or "blah?"
Quote from: Liatai on November 09, 2010, 12:24:19 AM
He didn't look all that thin in the work-in-progress, but now, he looks somewhat under-nourished, and his clothes look kind of big on him.
Cool. I was hoping Gabriel's scrawniness would be understated... somewhere between bishie and emaciated.
Quote from: Liatai on November 09, 2010, 12:24:19 AM
The only thing that stood out at me as seeming a little off was his neck in the first panel; it looks a little long to me.
Extreme head poses seen from different angles, and the anatomy for them, is a pain in the neck... I'm moving that up on my hit-list of stuff to work on. Thanks for pointing it out.
Page 2 of Gabriel's comic is up. Comments at FA. Right now, I need sleep.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4800960
...Thoughts?
(Isxarch's head did not turn out as I wanted. He's supposed to look more like this:
(http://www.whitefoxart.com/gabriel/isxarch.png)
'Course, in this sketch, I hadn't quite worked out his "cheekbones." But still. You get the idea.)
Right-o... i guess i'll start with, the black and white is really working for the comic. It did in the first, and continues to work well.
The insectis commander seems to be based on a locust perhaps? Any ideas as to how the markings are inscribed... is it something grafted to the exoskeleton or etched in?
In Panel 1, Gabe seems to be making a rather massive "Derp" face... is that because he's reacting to a sudden bright light? Or, did i miss something?
Lastly... what happens when the Insectis molts? how deep are those rivets planted?
Quote from: Basilisk on November 18, 2010, 12:06:10 AM
The insectis commander seems to be based on a locust perhaps?
Mantis, originally. Through development he evolved quite a bit, and most of the surviving features aren't entirely clear from this angle. Plus, his head is so very misshapen on this page it's almost funny. It's supposed to be much more triangular.
He does look a lot like a locust at this point.
Quote from: Basilisk on November 18, 2010, 12:06:10 AM
In Panel 1, Gabe seems to be making a rather massive "Derp" face...
That's the wince you make when you're about to say something directly to an authority figure they're really
not going to like, but you know that if you break eye contact with them they'll grab you by the collar, hoist you five feet off the floor, and give you a good solid shaking.
Quote from: Basilisk on November 18, 2010, 12:06:10 AM
Any ideas as to how the markings are inscribed... is it something grafted to the exoskeleton or etched in?
Lastly... what happens when the Insectis molts? how deep are those rivets planted?
These exact subjects are significant elements in the story, and they'll come up later. Pg. 5-6, maybe. Not sure. I haven't made an outline for the comic.
Gabriel Comic, pg.3 (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4856644) (FA)
This page was... a bit of an adventure. Drew myself into a few corners, so to speak. I'm being a little more off the cuff with this comic then usual, so I was expecting that to happen sooner or later.
Anyway... I'd like to hear what people think. Comments/feedback/etc. appreciated.
I certainly like your use of lighting in this series.
... Am I right in understanding that his "excuse" in p2 was that he'd been told he was to finish his current task or else. And it took him 17 hours from that point - after which he collapsed. (Not really surprising, at that point)
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on December 07, 2010, 07:08:44 PM
... Am I right in understanding that his "excuse" in p2 was that he'd been told he was to finish his current task or else. And it took him 17 hours from that point - after which he collapsed. (Not really surprising, at that point)
I kinda made up a unique system of time for the Insectis.
Meridian is noon, Nox-Meridian is midnight. Ante means before, Post means after. These are abbreviated as AM, PM, AN, and PN. That's pretty similar to the standard 12 hour time system, except that they have four groups of 6 hours in a day, instead of two groups of 12. A new day starts at midnight.
The major difference in the system is that during the "before" hours, the clock counts
down. So, "3 hours ante-nox-Meridian" is "three hours until midnight," which in 12-hour time would be 9 o'clock. 3 AN like saying "Midnight in t-minus 3 hours."
I came up with this because in 12-hour time, 12 am is easy to confuse with 12 pm. 12 hours before noon is the same as 12 hours after noon. 24 hour time deals with this by going from 23:59 to 00:00 hours, so technically, it would never be 24 o'clock in 24-hour time. In the Insectis 6 hour time system, 6AN is the same moment as 6PM (as well as 6PM and 6AN), but it's impossible to confuse dawn and dusk, so it doesn't really matter. Watches, clocks, and time pieces have to be designed to take this into account, and different horologists handle fencepost errors of 6:00 and 0:00 in different ways.
I spent three afternoons designing a watch for the 6 hour time system, and it doesn't have a standard face or arms. It'll be a major element in... 4-5 more pages. I think.
Gabriel started yesterday at three hours before midnight, and worked until 2 hours after midnight today. So, five hours, in addition to the standard 12 hour workday (Which does include meals, so it hasn't been 17 hours ]i]straight[/i]). Morning shift starts at 6 PN, so its 4AM now (8AM, in 12 hour time). Gabriel's had 6 hours of sleep.
So, I've been trying to develop a better method for drawing wingds on a humanoid figure for some time now. Like... two years. I've been making intermittent progress up until now, but I've hit a block.
There are innumerate different ways to draw stylized wings... I can't work like that. I wish I could, actually, it'd be a lot faster and easier. If I were a half decent artist, I could adapt a stylized look for whatever I needed, but most stylizations only look good from one particular angle and pose. Artists who work stylistically develop a sort of library of stock designs for things... I'm not consistent enough to work with a preset selection, and not flexible enough to come up with as many stock designs as I would need anyway.
I work from life references. If I can get a picture of something, I can draw it. To do comics, I usually do a kajillion sketches and life studies and diagrams until I understand it well enough to add it to a comic.
I'm at a point where I can draw wings pretty well (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/sketch_23.png)... just not well enough to adapt them. So I figured I'd post a little essay on what I have so far.
So... Say we have a guy. With wings. If I were ripping off Amber, I'd probably end up drawing them like this:
(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/02f.png)(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/02b.png)
Yeesh. See why I say I can't draw wings stylistically?
Moving on tho... if I were to draw such a figure in a way I'm comfortable with, He'd look like this:
(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/03f.png)(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/03b.png)
Hey, that's not bad. I guess we're all done here.
Oh, wait. Hold on... If I were to add in a hypothetical bone structure, it'd look like this:
(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/04b.png)
So, these are not realistic proportions for a bird's wing. The exact ratios vary depending on the bird, but usually the bicep and forearm are the same length. Here, the bicep is about 3 times as long.
I don't have any trouble with bat wings, because those actually do have proportions along those lines: The forearms are about three times as long as the bicep, and the first segment of the fingers are about 3 times as long as the rest of the fingers.
(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/05b.png)(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/06b.png)
I've been doing that since DSoF#54. I use a ratio of 2:1 instead of 3:1 to make it more manageable, and the overall size of jade's wings change (yay, inconsistency) But in general, I know what needs fixing in that regard and I have a clear picture of how to fix it.
So, okay, what happens if we straighten out the proportions? Lemme just go look for some ref pics...
Huh... look at that. If a bird has their wings in that pose, elbows out and wrists up, 90% of the time they're making a threat display or about to take off. Crud... I'm rather particular about body language. I don't want my characters always looking like there in flight-or-flight mode.
Okay... so what do the wings look like when a bird is at ease? Folded on the back, thusly:
(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/07b.png)(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/07f.png)(http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/sketch/08b.png)
Which looks fine from the front, and has proper proportions, but they're hardly visible at all from the front.
Compounding this, is that some poses are impossible to find ref pics for. Some are hard, like a picture of a bird from behind and above while they're flying. The body of a bird with their wings folded will block the view of their far wing. So, for the above pic, I don't know if it's possible to find reference images for the far wing.
I've tried a lot of different things to work this out. Like, a lot. The far wing never looks right. For example: DSoF#62 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=62), last panel; DSoF#64 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=64), panel 2 and 4-6.
It's just this one pose in particular. Almost any other pose I can handle (not very well, but I can handle it), but
of course it's the relaxed/neutral position that's giving me hassle, which is the one pose a character will be drawn in most often. If I were to use subtle body language, it'd be based of this pose too.
So... argh. Not sure what to do here. If anyone has any thoughts, observations, suggestions, WAG's, etc, I'd appreciate it.
I'm probably missing something, but couldn't you just scale up the wings to Mab size, while retaining the proportions of the bones?
Quote from: Tapewolf on December 10, 2010, 04:06:04 AM
I'm probably missing something, but couldn't you just scale up the wings to Mab size, while retaining the proportions of the bones?
Thinking the same thing. And actually I believe that bigger wings are more believable as a means of flight, if you remove magic from the equasion.
Quote from: Tapewolf on December 10, 2010, 04:06:04 AM
I'm probably missing something, but couldn't you just scale up the wings to Mab size, while retaining the proportions of the bones?
Don't I just wish it were that simple....
The key problem is that as long as the wing's wrist is level with the shoulder, it's hard to draw them clearly. They get that tacked on look. If I increase the overall size of the wings without altering the proportions, the bicep and forearm increase in length at the same rate, which means the wrist still ends up level with the shoulder. In every single picture of a bird that I have, regardless of what kind of wing geometry they have, the wrist
always comes up to the base of the neck, so the higher up the wrists go, the less accurate my references become.
Stylized and/or disproportionate wings bring the wrist up above the shoulders, but those aren't really viable options for me (I've tried. The results aren't pretty). Wings in a threat-display will bring the wrist up but muck up the body language at the same time, which I'm very particular about.
I'd be willing-ish to alter the proportions, except that by the time they're changed enough that they look alright, the wings are so different from real wings my ref pics don't compare anymore. That means I'd no longer be able to use life-refs for the wings in any other poses. If a character moved their wings, I'd have to shift the proportions towards realistic ones as they changed pose, which looks inconsistent; or keep the odd-ball proportions, which I don't have ref pics for, and ends up looking odd-ball anyway.
I tried closing the wings around the side of the character, rather than flat against the back. Even if the wings came up to the shoulder, they were still visible enough from most angles that they didn't look so tacked on... but the far wing never ended up looked right. I couldn't never figure out how to position it comfortably, and with no ref pics of a wing in that pose from that angle (since a bird's body blocks the view of the far wing), I couldn't figure out how the feathers would arrange (which is one reason wings ended up with so little detail in so many comics).
(I still draw batwings closed around the sides... the physical structure was easier to draw diagrams for and there's no uber-complicated feathers, so I was able to work something out. Plus, I actually found a few ref pics of bats in-that-pose-and-from-that-angle that were useful. Of course, the proportions for bat wings are much different than birds wings, so an idea that failed to fix my problem with bird wings worked for batwings that didn't have that problem to begin with. Joy.
Now I have to get back to doing studies of how the fingertips arrange themselves when the wings are closed, and how the folds of the membranes go.)
I tried placing them higher up on the back... they still looked tacked on. (eg: DSoF#62 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=62), last panel.)
I haven't been able to come up with any other options over the past couple of months. :/
(If any of that was confusing, I can do a few sketches to show what I mean.)
Quote from: Kipiru on December 10, 2010, 08:41:22 AM
Thinking the same thing. And actually I believe that bigger wings are more believable as a means of flight, if you remove magic from the equasion.
Honestly, I don't find large wings any more believable, since they just look that much more massive. To heck with flight, how do they even stand up? I can't even imagine the leverage of an XL wingspan.
I figure the overall size of a characters wings based on the actual proportions of the bird they're referenced from, by taking into account the ratio of the birds body-height to wing-span, and wingspan-to-breadth. Most birds have a height-to-wingspan ratio around 1:3, and the breadth of their wings depends on what style of flight they're adapted to. I use the characters torso height and those ratios to figure out the size of their wings.This makes the size of the wings "look right" for the character, since it approximates the size of the wings people are used to seeing on a flying bird.
Besides... If I just drew them bigger, it'd do the same thing they did in the last panel of DSoF#62 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=62). Undefined lumpy wing lumps.
If I wanted to do everything 100% realistically, I wouldn't be drawing furries in a fantasy setting to begin with. 'Course... I have a hard time drawing things without real life references, so I guess I put myself in a catch-22. didn't I? Nice move there, WhiteFox.
Quote from: WhiteFox on December 10, 2010, 11:01:50 PM
The key problem is that as long as the wing's wrist is level with the shoulder, it's hard to draw them clearly. They get that tacked on look. If I increase the overall size of the wings without altering the proportions, the bicep and forearm increase in length at the same rate, which means the wrist still ends up level with the shoulder. In every single picture of a bird that I have, regardless of what kind of wing geometry they have, the wrist always comes up to the base of the neck, so the higher up the wrists go, the less accurate my references become.
Stylized and/or disproportionate wings bring the wrist up above the shoulders, but those aren't really viable options for me (I've tried. The results aren't pretty). Wings in a threat-display will bring the wrist up but muck up the body language at the same time, which I'm very particular about.
I'd be willing-ish to alter the proportions, except that by the time they're changed enough that they look alright, the wings are so different from real wings my ref pics don't compare anymore. That means I'd no longer be able to use life-refs for the wings in any other poses. If a character moved their wings, I'd have to shift the proportions towards realistic ones as they changed pose, which looks inconsistent; or keep the odd-ball proportions, which I don't have ref pics for, and ends up looking odd-ball anyway.
And that would be part of the basic problem with tacking wings unto a human. A bird has an overall "pear" or oval-like shape, while a human has... A humanoid shape. Bird wings fold in and make their body shape a little "fatter" while humans... Were NEVER meant to have an aerodynamic shape.
Personally, you could try lengthening the outer two bones a bit to make them look more flight-worthy, but bird wings and humanoid body shapes just aren't meant to mesh together. (I don't mean to drag you down WF, I'm just pointing out that, in terms of skeletal and muscular structure, you may have to do some inventing.)
Quote from: WhiteFox on December 10, 2010, 11:01:50 PM
I tried closing the wings around the side of the character, rather than flat against the back. Even if the wings came up to the shoulder, they were still visible enough from most angles that they didn't look so tacked on... but the far wing never ended up looked right. I couldn't never figure out how to position it comfortably, and with no ref pics of a wing in that pose from that angle (since a bird's body blocks the view of the far wing), I couldn't figure out how the feathers would arrange (which is one reason wings ended up with so little detail in so many comics).
(I still draw batwings closed around the sides... the physical structure was easier to draw diagrams for and there's no uber-complicated feathers, so I was able to work something out. Plus, I actually found a few ref pics of bats in-that-pose-and-from-that-angle that were useful. Of course, the proportions for bat wings are much different than birds wings, so an idea that failed to fix my problem with bird wings worked for batwings that didn't have that problem to begin with. Joy.
Now I have to get back to doing studies of how the fingertips arrange themselves when the wings are closed, and how the folds of the membranes go.)
It also doesn't help that bird wings just AREN'T meant to bend that way. Bat wings, however, are equipped with that range of motion. (See bats at rest vs. birds at rest. Bat wings wrap around the body, while bird wings fold against it.) Bat wings are also essentially arms with super-long fingers that "cup" or hold a mass of air. While bird wings do the same, their design is completely different.
Quote from: WhiteFox on December 10, 2010, 11:01:50 PM
Honestly, I don't find large wings any more believable, since they just look that much more massive. To heck with flight, how do they even stand up? I can't even imagine the leverage of an XL wingspan.
That's part of why bird wings have hollow bones. Plus, the wings themselves don't actually weigh all that much. (Most of the size comes from skin, and those big feathers you love to draw so much. :P ) Most of the muscles responsible for actually moving the wing up and down is located in the back, IIRC. (Maybe the breast, which would help counter-balance.)
Quote from: WhiteFox on December 10, 2010, 11:01:50 PM
I figure the overall size of a characters wings based on the actual proportions of the bird they're referenced from, by taking into account the ratio of the birds body-height to wing-span, and wingspan-to-breadth. Most birds have a height-to-wingspan ratio around 1:3, and the breadth of their wings depends on what style of flight they're adapted to. I use the characters torso height and those ratios to figure out the size of their wings.This makes the size of the wings "look right" for the character, since it approximates the size of the wings people are used to seeing on a flying bird.
Besides... If I just drew them bigger, it'd do the same thing they did in the last panel of DSoF#62 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/dsof/archive.php?comic=62). Undefined lumpy wing lumps.
If I wanted to do everything 100% realistically, I wouldn't be drawing furries in a fantasy setting to begin with. 'Course... I have a hard time drawing things without real life references, so I guess I put myself in a catch-22. didn't I? Nice move there, WhiteFox.
No, most birds have a wing-to-height ratio of 2:3 or 1:2, especially the larger, predatory birds like eagles. (Who are quite capable of carrying off prey.)
One thing I just noticed (And checked through the archives of the comic for.) Is a distinct LACK of avian characters. I dunno if it would be worthwhile to try adapting avians to humanoid shape and THEN try to handle wings or not.
I dunno if this is helping or not as I'm just noting observations and throwing stuff out there. (Most likely, quite blindly.)
EDIT: Dammit... Halfway through the post and I lost all focus, also losing the points I was going to make... Now I'm highly annoyed...
Quote from: Drayco84 on December 11, 2010, 01:39:47 PM
No, most birds have a wing-to-height ratio of 2:3 or 1:2, especially the larger, predatory birds like eagles. (Who are quite capable of carrying off prey.)
Just to make sure we're on the same page... When I say "wingspan," I mean the distance from wingtip to wingtip. If you thought I mean the distance from the wingtip to the shoulder, it'd be about the same ratio.
Quick comparison:
| Character: | Wing Model: | Torso to Wingspan: | Torso to Wing: |
| Theonor | Finch | 1:2.5 | 1:1.25 |
| Felix | Raven | 1:3 | 1:1.5 |
| Emiline | Great Frigate Bird | 1:4 | 1:2 |
So, most of my characters fall within the 2:3 to 1:2 range.
Quote from: Drayco84 on December 11, 2010, 01:39:47 PM
One thing I just noticed (And checked through the archives of the comic for.) Is a distinct LACK of avian characters. I dunno if it would be worthwhile to try adapting avians to humanoid shape and THEN try to handle wings or not.
I have to do a lot of studies to figure out how to draw a given species of animal. Once I practice with one species, though, it's that much easier to draw similar ones. After enough time with cats, it wasn't hard to figure out dogs, bears, and foxes. Drawing rats made drawing rabbits, squirrels, and muskrats easier.
Starting on entirely different species presents a steeper learning curve since they're so dissimilar to what I've done so far. I haven't been idle, though... there are a number of avian and reptilian characters who are just waiting to be introduced, and with Gabriel's comic I've been doing a lot with insects.
I'm rambling now, though.
Quote from: Drayco84 on December 11, 2010, 01:39:47 PM
I dunno if this is helping or not as I'm just noting observations and throwing stuff out there. (Most likely, quite blindly.)
I'm not sure how you can make observations blindly (rimshot).
It is helping, actually. You never know what will spark an idea, so random throwing is all good, and as a fresh point of view is... refreshing. There's a few points that make me think,
yes, I know, and I've been aware of it for a couple of years now, but bringing them up sometimes makes me look at them from a different angle.
For example, when you mentioned adapting avians to a
bipedal figure, it occurred to me that I didn't have any trouble adapting avians designs to a
quadrupedal figure, eg: gryphons. The shoulders of most quadrupedal mammals are much narrower, so the wings can lay comfortably against the sides.
I went looking for the technical term for an animal with a scapula set vertically, and in the process found some very informative articles on Anatomical Terms of Location (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terms_for_anatomical_location), Centauroid Creatures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centauroid_creature), and a multitude of skeletal diagrams and pictures to round out my current library (like this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Horse_and_Man.jpg)).
I don't know if this will get me any closer to figuring out how to put wings on a humanoid figure, nor have I found the term for a vertically positioned scapula, but it's been an informative trip. I'll have to try sketching around with narrow shoulders on bipeds figures: I probably won't draw
all winged creatures like that, but it might be suitable for the primarily bird-like ones, like Gryphon A's and Phoenix B's.
Which, it occurs to me as I typed that, may develop into a solution to my primary issue. Even if I don't have a solution, at least I have a new lead.
So, thanks for the comments. They're much appreciated.
Gabriel, pg.4 (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5110369/)
Ugh. This took way too long to get off my desk. Lotsa time on the editing board.
My scanner is such a pain... the lines keep coming in as a dark shade of gray rather than black. It's not hard to fix using levels, but the image quality suffers for it.
Comments, critique, and feedback appreciated.
I feel I should point out, as a personal request[1], that it might be beneficial to have links in the FA commentary for each page to the previous page. Given the time lapse between each strip, one likes to go back and refresh one's memory on the previous happenings, and that's somewhat difficult. Not impossible, but it did take five or six clicks to get there, and the concomitant waiting for pages to load...
Just a thought.
Other than that, I did like the critique of the foreman. I felt it was slightly at odds with the emphasis in the previous strip by Isxarch when speaking to Gabriel, though; if he was that annoyed at Gabriel, why is he now calm and collected when tearing a strip off Carrel? The "action panel" in the first panel of strip 3 shows him apparently severely vexed with Gabriel, and yet today's strip appears to clarify that as irritation with Carrel, yet his pose contradicts that.
Just a thought, there. Maybe it's not quite what you meant, maybe it is, but that's what I drew from it.
[1] ie, this isn't moderator-command, this is just a suggestion; purely for clarity's sake
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 18, 2011, 05:59:00 AM
...and the concomitant waiting...
(
Checks dictionary) That's a new one... I'm keeping it.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 18, 2011, 05:59:00 AM
I feel I should point out, as a personal request[1], that it might be beneficial to have links in the FA commentary for each page to the previous page.
Blarg... I keep meaning to do that. FA has tags for comic navigation, but I find them a pain. Keeping the syntax and page links straight is onerous, and they're the last thing I want to deal with after the stress of getting a comic page posted.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 18, 2011, 05:59:00 AM
...if he was that annoyed at Gabriel, why is he now calm and collected when tearing a strip off Carrel?
...Maybe it's not quite what you meant, maybe it is, but that's what I drew from it.
You've read Isxarch correctly. He's vexxed with Gabriel, and calm and collected when tearing a strip off Carrel.
Isxarch is holding each of them accountable for their conduct. It's not Gabriel's fault that Carrel's orders were impossible to follow, and wasn't at fault for actually following them... but it's not Carrel's fault that Gabriel fell asleep in the manifold, was late the next morning, and hadn't gotten a shower or fresh uniform.
As for why Isxarch vexxed with Gabriel but collected with Carrel... there's underlying reasons for that, and it's more than just a few broken rules.
Sorry if this is an oblique answer. I'm actually really glad you mentioned this, because it was exactly the intended meaning, and I'm glad it came across. Though... I guess it was a bit confusing. Partial victory.
[EDIT] uploaded a higher-res and textless version of the central panel to scraps: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5110954/
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 19, 2011, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 18, 2011, 05:59:00 AM
...and the concomitant waiting...
(Checks dictionary) That's a new one... I'm keeping it.
You can't have it, it's mine, my precious. All mine.
... I can let you take a photostat of it, though. ;-]
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 19, 2011, 08:03:53 PM
You've read Isxarch correctly. He's vexxed with Gabriel, and calm and collected when tearing a strip off Carrel.
Isxarch is holding each of them accountable for their conduct. It's not Gabriel's fault that Carrel's orders were impossible to follow, and wasn't at fault for actually following them... but it's not Carrel's fault that Gabriel fell asleep in the manifold, was late the next morning, and hadn't gotten a shower or fresh uniform.
As for why Isxarch vexxed with Gabriel but collected with Carrel... there's underlying reasons for that, and it's more than just a few broken rules.
Hrm. It seems somewhat unreasonable to me to expect someone to be calm, collected, having showered and dressed... after, what, six hours sleep and a 17 hour day? If he got to go back to his quarters, he wouldn't have had even that, I presume; if he was on time, he'd have had something like three to four, at most; I'm presuming an hour or so to complete ablutions and breaking of his fast.
I figure he's got to have been working rather hard for a day like that to take him out - I can do that sort of thing without usually passing out on my desk; I may not be normal in this regard, I'll admit, but I'm not _that_ abnormal, I'd have thought...
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 19, 2011, 08:03:53 PM
Sorry if this is an oblique answer. I'm actually really glad you mentioned this, because it was exactly the intended meaning, and I'm glad it came across. Though... I guess it was a bit confusing. Partial victory.
Oh, oblique answers are fine. I'm not asking you to explain at all. Merely... clarifying that this was, indeed, the message you were attempting to communicate. Since you've confirmed that yes, he's supposed to be severely pissed at Gabriel (whom I gather he considers might actually be worth the time spent educating him) and mildly irritated at Carrel (whom he considers might be worth the effort of scraping him off his shoe, on a good day), it makes sense.
I shall wait and see what happens next.
... and I can understand the annoyance of the tags. Want me to look into it and see if I can't figure out a way to explain it to you, so it makes more sense?
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 20, 2011, 02:27:27 PM
You can't have it, it's mine, my precious. All mine.
... I can let you take a photostat of it, though. ;-]
Oh, no need to trouble yourself... I'll just plagiarize it.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 20, 2011, 02:27:27 PM
Hrm. It seems somewhat unreasonable to me to expect someone to be calm, collected, having showered and dressed... after, what, six hours sleep and a 17 hour day?
More like 2-3 hours. Reveille is at five.
Isxarch has his own definition of "reasonable."
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 20, 2011, 02:27:27 PMSince you've confirmed that yes, he's supposed to be severely pissed at Gabriel (whom I gather he considers might actually be worth the time spent educating him) and mildly irritated at Carrel (whom he considers might be worth the effort of scraping him off his shoe, on a good day), it makes sense.
I just want to say... having intelligent readers is
awesome. I have a few friends IRL who don't understand this stuff after 3 hours of explaining.
"Friends" might be too strong a word.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 20, 2011, 02:27:27 PM
... and I can understand the annoyance of the tags. Want me to look into it and see if I can't figure out a way to explain it to you, so it makes more sense?
I have it figured out... I'm just
really good at losing track of which pages are what submission number, and I always mix up the syntax (I keep thinking the order is "Next, First, Prev," when it's actually "Prev, First, Next." I have no clue how I could possibly have gotten this misconception).
Navigation tags have been added.
Gabriel, pg.5 (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5169249)
Took me less than a month to finish this time... go me.
Only thing I majorly screwed up was the perspective in the bottom left panel: the two-point perspective looks skewed. Should have stuck with 1-point. Made a few minor screw ups (as mentioned in the FA post), but for the most part I had fun with this page.
Anyway... Comments and critique very much appreciated.
Nice job! Gabriel crawling around inside the machinery put a smile on my face. I'm not entirely sure what you mean about the two-point perspective in the bottom left panel, though; did you try and have a distant horizontal one as well as a vertical one? If so, I can see what you mean; I think the point was a bit too far down for it to work, since it makes it seem like everything's really tall.
Aside from that, love the watch. Did you decide if it was magical or mechanical, or would you rather leave it ambiguous?
Quote from: Inumo on January 28, 2011, 08:20:57 PM
Nice job! Gabriel crawling around inside the machinery put a smile on my face.
The panel on the middle-left was inspired by a trip I took to my dad's workplace. I got to crawl inside a few things to take pictures, and I could just imagine was what it'd be like to climb into the thing and work on it. If it had been on at the time? An inch in the wrong direction, and bam! 250kW right in the kisser. It gave me an appreciation for Gabe's situation.
Quote from: Inumo on January 28, 2011, 08:20:57 PMI'm not entirely sure what you mean about the two-point perspective in the bottom left panel, though; did you try and have a distant horizontal one as well as a vertical one? If so, I can see what you mean; I think the point was a bit too far down for it to work, since it makes it seem like everything's really tall.
It's supposed to look really tall, actually. I was going for around 2 or 2.5 stories.
The perspective makes the wall seem to "twist" as it goes from right to left. The perspective on the wall is technically accurate, I think, but it looks funny. If I'd used one-point perspective, it probably wouldn't look so bent.
Quote from: Inumo on January 28, 2011, 08:20:57 PM
Aside from that, love the watch. Did you decide if it was magical or mechanical, or would you rather leave it ambiguous?
The watch has a magical battery of arcane energy, but the remaining components are mundane. The piezoelectric crystal oscillator would be incorrectly assumed to be magical in the comic world, since it's advanced technology in this setting (Clark's third law), as well as the fact that people generally assume crystals are magic.
The piezoelectric crystal is an Insectis-only widget, made possible by their affinity with earth-based magics. It's artificially fabricated through arcane processes, but the crystal itself is non-magical.
No, there won't be a test on this later.
How To Talk To Artists, part 2 (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5187898/) (FA)
Page 1, (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/tutorial/httta_2a.png) Page 2, (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/tutorial/httta_2b.png) Page 3 (http://www.whitefoxart.com/artwork/tutorial/httta_2c.png) (Personal Hosting)
Open to discussion, critique, and questions.
why is there no push for objectivity in an analysis of an artists work?
I would think that would be the first thing an artitst would want in a legitimate response. I can't take a reviewer seriously otherwise. There's too many ethnocentric morons who don't know beans about cultural relativism nor enough about history of narrative, expresionism, structure, or even pop culture. I especially find reviewers that hold stupid closed minded beliefs, such as "purpose" and "utility" especially laughable. If purpose is limited specifically to "entertainment or intellectual stimulation," then why are creative intelligence, analytical intelligence, expressive intelligence, problem solving intelligence, and perceptual intelligence completely overlooked in a work of fiction or other work of art? :mowignore
:rolleyes I find people who judge an artists current ability based on something that was created more decade ago particularly ignorant. They get bonus points if they accuse others of being lazy.
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on February 06, 2011, 11:22:56 PM
:rolleyes I find people who judge an artists current ability based on something that was created more decade ago particularly ignorant. They get bonus points if they accuse others of being lazy.
only if it's not compared to their so-called "current ability" and the disparity of what they could do then and what they can do now, if there's little or no progression in a decade or so, then they, quite frankly, are the ignorant ones.
and then they deserve every little artistic withering bon mot thrown their way.
No offense to whitefox's efforts here, but i find a guide to "how to talk to artists" to be a tad pretentious, not to mention long winded. I can boil it down to one thing: if you want to talk to an artist, here's how you do it in one sentence:
TREAT THEM LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING.if they're normal back to you, that's all good and fine, if they're a douche, treat them as such, if they're thick as two short planks, or have their head shoved up their backside, treat them accordingly.
It's that simple.
Quote from: Turnsky on February 07, 2011, 04:55:53 AM
No offense to whitefox's efforts here, but i find a guide to "how to talk to artists" to be a tad pretentious, not to mention long winded. I can boil it down to one thing: if you want to talk to an artist, here's how you do it in one sentence:
TREAT THEM LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING.
if they're normal back to you, that's all good and fine, if they're a douche, treat them as such, if they're thick as two short planks, or have their head shoved up their backside, treat them accordingly.
It's that simple.
"Simple" is not the word I would've used to describe this situation. As an artist, you doubtless have some level of background from which to make a critique from, and it seems like you also have some common sense. However, common sense is starting to disappear (in America, at least), so people can't just say "do this" and it'll get done as intended. To some degree, the long-winded-ness is necessary to get those that don't have the common sense to figure out how to be less mean-spirited in their commentary to understand how to comment properly.
This is about the new page for Gabriel.
I notice how Gabriel seems to be alone while walking around and working. Climbing up to get his schedule, walking down one way of the hall while the others face or walk the other way, working high up alone while others just walk by leaving him alone to do their own work, and generally squeezing into things that he alone can fit into to do repairs.
It's almost seems like your vaguely hinting at he is probably all alone. Although he is passed by people every day.
GT: The matter of objectivity has come up before... take a look at the comments on 2-3.
Absolute objectivity is impossible on many, many levels. Anything written by a person will inherently be subjective, as it comes from their point of view. Personally, I think it's more important to be polite than objective.
Quote from: Turnsky on February 07, 2011, 04:55:53 AM
if they're a douche,
Turnsky, I would appreciate it if you didn't use this kind of offensive language here.
Quote from: Inumo on February 07, 2011, 08:57:59 AM
"Simple" is not the word I would've used to describe this situation.
...
To some degree, the long-winded-ness is necessary to get those that don't have the common sense to figure out how to be less mean-spirited in their commentary to understand how to comment properly.
Quoted for truth.
"How To Talk To Artists" may not be the most accurate title... Really, it's about how to talk to people,
period: clarity, civility, and thought behind the words. It's using art as the main subject, tho.
Quote from: joshofspam on February 07, 2011, 10:37:04 AMI notice how Gabriel seems to be alone while walking around and working.
Every now and then, someone says something that makes you feel like you did something right. "Alone" might not be the right word, but there is a lot of distance between Gabriel and the workforce at large.
Thanks for reading, thanks for the comment. :3
Quote from: WhiteFox on February 07, 2011, 06:56:05 PM
*stuff*
Fair cop on the language thing.
even if you're polite to the artist in question, more often than not they might be rude back, either by way of being snide, arrogant, or just downright abusive. Or they get on their high horse and start blabbering on about how the folks aren't understanding "their vision" or "their way of doing things" or what have you.
the thing is this:
Drawing/painting/sculpting/photographing/whatever pretty pictures is art.
Writing is also an art in of itself.
Making a comic? is where the two come together to form a completely different beast in its own right. Lots of people don't understand that there are queues in design one needs to set out if people are 'to get it'. It's a form of literature with art attached, or it's art that tells a story, call it what you will, serialised art, perhaps? (yeah, i know it's "sequential" but who can think of that without thinking immediately of a comic by that name, neh?)
Whitefox, maybe you should make a guide that also serves the other end of the discussion, and not just those talking to artists, but rather, the artists themselves and how they should behave when dealing with others who choose to discuss various 'errors' in their work.
Because if memory serves, not a lot of folks (here, too - not naming names.) don't take criticism well at all, no matter how polite one is about it.
Quote from: Turnsky on February 07, 2011, 11:31:50 PM
...but rather, the artists themselves and how they should behave when dealing with others who choose to discuss various 'errors' in their work.
Turnksy, you have a plank in your eye.
Whee, page five of Gabriel's comic is done. Joy.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5230382/ (FA)
I forgot how much I hate speech bubbles.
Anywhoo, comments appreciated.
That's gotta be awkward, being as tall as most toddlers. I can't quite tell this, though... What's the cook dropping on Gabriel's tray?
Also, no wonder you've depicted Gabriel as distant from the rest of the crew.
Quote from: WhiteFox on February 08, 2011, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: Turnsky on February 07, 2011, 11:31:50 PM
...but rather, the artists themselves and how they should behave when dealing with others who choose to discuss various 'errors' in their work.
Turnksy, you have a plank in your eye.
sure, level insults at little ol' me, making yourself seem you have an entire telegraph pole in yours.
Bravo, good sir, i applaud you in your literary efforts.
whilst you have sought to knock me down from my high-horse, you should get down from yours, too.
i.e: just stick with the comics, man.
Turnsky, WhiteFox.
Cease the dick size wars, guys. Or I'll start joining in.
I'm sure you'd like that.
No, really.
Oh, did I miss the flame war? How sad. *weeps*
I'm really not interested in a flamewar.
Turnksy, I really do appreciate your comments. You are easily the one person on the board that makes the most constructive observations. When you talk in underlined bold all-caps, or get all high and mighty about how people get all high and mighty, it's hard not to take it as inflammatory. I could have handled it much better than I did.
If you have anything to say about Gaberiel's backstory comic, I'd appreciate it. I get compliments here and there, and they're nice, but they don't give me a lot to work with.
It's gone.
Farewell, Sweet Post (and Sweet Poster)
Wow, how have i put this off for like, over a week?!
Anyways, i'll start with some of the things that catch me first, and go on from there. The postures and uniforms are looking good. You're getting rather good at background as well, showing quite a bit of improvement building a sense of depth in the background, as well as the center of action. This is especially apparent in the bottom left panel.
A couple of things that do stick out are the slightly off head-shapes in the top left, with the feline and canine. The feline seems to have a bit to flat on the far side of his head, while the canine in that first pannel seems to have a little to little definition around his muzzle... the bear serving meals looks good, though.
The animalistic snarl in the top-right is great. It's difficult to get duke to snarl, but you managed to capture and merge the human and animal posturing and facial features well.
In the middle, where the bear appears to be giving an extra roll, the hand seems slightly mis-shapen... the pinky is a bit too long, and there seems to be a bit too much definition... the palm-lines seem to distort the depth-perception, at least, for me.
The flowy, yet starched uniforms look great, and the little details in that last panel are outstanding. I love Gabe's use of his prehensile tail, and the little details in the clothing.
Again, sorry it took so long to get this written out... :B best of luck, and hopefully this was helpful. Can't wait to see where the comic goes next.
Quote from: Basilisk on February 18, 2011, 10:59:22 AM
The flowy, yet starched uniforms look great, and the little details in that last panel are outstanding. I love Gabe's use of his prehensile tail, and the little details in the clothing.
Speaking of details in clothing, I note that Gabriel has rather more detail than the others - chains, bling, what-have-you.
I presume that this is significant, and that the actual significance will show up later. However - it occurs to me that the character that you draw most often has the most complex lines. Is this something you didn't think through fully, or just a challenge to yourself? ;-]
Just a thought or two in passing. I do like it, but it seems to me you might be setting yourself up for fail, is all. Most comic artists reduce complexity in the stuff they have to draw all the time, or so I understand, soas to make it easier to keep on time; this seems eminently sensible to me, so it's interesting to note you going the other way.
Bas: TYVM, especially for commenting on the snarl, which I really wanted to get right; the overdrawn and irregular hand, which I ought to know better; and the outfits, which are a lot of fun.
People seem to really like that prehensile tail.
llearch: One of the main reasons I started the comic was to focus on shaping up my drawing and inking.
Artistically... Gabe's outfit is actually average complexity, and most everyone else (ie: background and secondary characters like Carrel) have simple designs. It's also not hard to draw, since the fabric is fairly stiff material (Theonor's robe-o'-drapery is much more of a pain to draw), and the pattern is laid out using simple measurements(ie: on the sleeve, the point that comes down from the shoulder reaches halfway to the elbow) that take out a lot of the guesswork.
It was a challenge to myself in one way, though: continuity. All the head wings, tails, and minor costume pieces I'd forget to draw in DSoF was just embarrassing. >_<
By the way: two things have already been mentioned in the comic that would explain Gabriel's dressier duds.
Oh, sure. I realise there's been at least one explanation already (not sure about the second, but hey)
My point was... I'm not sure which (of the two or more) it is. And I'm happy to wait and see. But, the complexity of his chest covering is more than the others, was all.
I shall remain happy to watch and wait.