Cubi being able to shape shift would open up some pretty useful (and way fun) possibilities...
The big butt saver I can think of is (if they can) grow a fake set of third wings. Since there are rumors that extremely powerful Cubi have a third set, a weaker Cubi could try to bluff his/her way out of a fight by growing fake third wings. An adventurer might panic upon seeing a "higher tier" Cubi and run. Even if they didn't run, the split second of WTF could give an opening for the weak Cubi to exploit. I think growing big wings on the ankles would be the best, as they would be visually distinct and easy to spot.
For good old fashioned piratical jokes have a practice session of sword/axe/other pointies practice. When your opponent takes a big swing shrink your forearm so you just have a stump. Start screaming and wave the "stump" about. >:3 (This would be a prime way to feed if the Cubi ate panic. Also would work well for those that feed off of hunger for revenge, as your buddy would be sure to get back at you for it.)
interesting idea, but I don't think third tier would pan out as a good tactic very well... I'm under the impression that knowledge of 'cubi is not so mainstream as in shown in DMFA (which has a disproportionate number of 'cubi thanks to Dan, Abel, and Arryana)
I imagine that, were it a D&D skill check, general knowledge of 'cubi would be a DC 20 and tri-wing would be DC 30 (5 being common knowledge, 20 being something a specialist would know easily, and 30+ being something only a select few might know)
(yeah, yeah, I know, D&D =/= DMFA :rolleyes but that's the best anology I can think of for availability of knowledge)
Anyway, the point is, I don't think that the average adventurer would be fased by tri-wing, and the uncommon adventurer who did might well be powerful enough to be unconcerned or over-all knowledgable enough to see it for the ruse it is.
Now, turning into a more recognizable fierce monster, like a large dragon, would certainly have an effect. :3 But, I think most 'cubi just use transformation to disguise thier nature and appear as beings, or atleast one of the more harmless mythos.
Surely somebody other than me is thinking about the dildo-shapeshift?
I need help.
Quote from: rabid_fox on January 09, 2008, 01:52:02 PM
Surely somebody other than me is thinking about the dildo-shapeshift?
I need help.
Of a dedicated specialist.
If I could shapeshift, I'd turn into a kitty and make all the girls go "aawwww!". |3
Could you, say, morph a hole in your head?
Cause it'd be awfully hard to stab someone if they kept making a hole where you put your sword.
If I could shape-shift, I'd take up belly dancing. Woo... wiggley.
Can Cubi shape-shift into a dragon? They have the right number of limbs and everything.
I don't think you'd come as far as actually hitting a Cubus if you tried to stab him.
I'd assume one of the following two scenarios will happen:
a) The Cubus is in a playful mood: You discover that you can't hit him with your knife, because he mind-tricked you in dancing polka instead.
b) The Cubus is not in a playful mood: You discover that you can't hit him because you don't have any limbs left.
If cubi were -that- powerful, there'd be no need to hide.
Unless you're talking about the buttwinged ones. They could probably get to doing that. Sometimes. Unless fighting a Belmont.
I mentioned Dr. Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic of the Fantastic Four) in another thread. The joke was that Dr. Richards got his superhero name after an energetic evening with Mrs. Richards (the Invisible Girl).
Dr. Richards: Honey, I can stretch any part of my body up to 100x it's normal length.
Mrs. Richards: Ooh, lemee see!
...
Mrs. Richards: You seem pretty ...average... in proportion... ... *begins to snicker*
Dr Richards: :<
And of course there were always the jokes about what Mrs. Richards could do with her invisible force fields and what happened if her costume became invisible before she did.
I hate to think what could be said about The Thing's thing.
******
And there was a recent episode where a shape-shifting Skrull was promised in an arranged marriage to one of the characters in the comic book. When she mentions that it won't work out because she's really not interested in men, the Skrull changes into a woman and states that he never could understand human's preoccupation with sex.
I like "The Venture Brothers" version, in which 3 of the Fantastic Four had versions of their powers that totally sucked: The Thing had incredibly thick skin which hurt constantly and he was retarded, The Human Torch burst into agonizing flames whenever he was exposed to oxygen, and the only part of the Invisible Woman's body that became invisible was her skin... so you saw all the veins and stuff underneath. Only Mr. Fantastic's powers worked well, and he was an egotistical jackass.
That show did have some clever spoofs at times. :)
Now, one thing that would be very useful as a cubi shapeshifter is to make a hollow faux body to do all the preliminary attacking, take some damage to it and make it seem to 'die'', then rise up and slaughter the gloating adventurer when he least expects it.
Unless one of the adventurer group can sense magic well. Then your real body will be discovered. Tactics like this must be used only in certain situations where applicable. :3
"You have to admit, the Impossibles made a really convincing Fantastic Four!"
Heh. *Gently pats his box sets." Orpheus rocks.
Back to shape-shifting... I got one easier than the body double. A cubi could morph a sword or arrow sticking out of his chest halfway through the fight and fall over. While the hapless adventurer is wondering where the heck it came from, make an attack of opportunity.
As for the hole dodge I mentioned before... you could just stand there while they stab and slash away. Smirking. With your hands in your pockets. Wait until they get tired and just push em over.
I just thought of a good one... morph into a pool of water. When they step into you, sever ankles. Bake at 350 for 35 minutes or until terrified.
In terms of combat though... given the talents and abilities displayed, few Cubi seem to employ weapons for other than emphasis (Doctor's giant needle) or comedic effect (Misc. hammers). Abel seems to be the only one that we've seen use an actual weapon in combat, and that was to throw a dagger at Merlitz's staff. If I had to guess, it's probably just easier for a cubi to sharpen part of his body than to morph a whole sword. Besides, if you could polymorph a sword you can parry with, why not just make yourself sword proof? I guess this is why they do the whole tentacle combat thing. (TENTACLE COMBAT!!! Da-dun, da-dun da-dun da-dun-dun-dun...)
Actually... I have a question. Abel yanked Arry's dress off back at SAIA as an Obvious Distraction. Why didn't she just polymorph the appearance of clothes? Abel even said he could do as much when he was teaching Dan about shifting (And scarred Dan for life by not doing so).
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 10, 2008, 01:50:31 AM
I have a question. Abel yanked Arry's dress off back at SAIA as an Obvious Distraction. Why didn't she just polymorph the appearance of clothes? Abel even said he could do as much when he was teaching Dan about shifting (And scarred Dan for life by not doing so).
Because this is a comic strip and that would have been boring.
Quote from: Danzig on January 10, 2008, 02:10:32 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 10, 2008, 01:50:31 AM
I have a question. Abel yanked Arry's dress off back at SAIA as an Obvious Distraction. Why didn't she just polymorph the appearance of clothes? Abel even said he could do as much when he was teaching Dan about shifting (And scarred Dan for life by not doing so).
Because this is a comic strip and that would have been boring.
Also because Abel had the element of surprise. Cubi powers take a certain amount of concentration to make work and it's difficult to concentrate when your clothes have just been unexpectedly ripped off.
Quote from: Danzig on January 10, 2008, 02:10:32 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 10, 2008, 01:50:31 AM
I have a question. Abel yanked Arry's dress off back at SAIA as an Obvious Distraction. Why didn't she just polymorph the appearance of clothes? Abel even said he could do as much when he was teaching Dan about shifting (And scarred Dan for life by not doing so).
Because this is a comic strip and that would have been boring.
because making textiles is hard (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_652.php) :3
Plus, what Jakon said... Arry wasn't exactly in the right frame of mind to calmly think "I'm naked, I must cloth myself," methinks.
Hm. True. I thought Abel was talking about magical fabrication, not shapeshifing, though.
Plus, Aary doesn't seem to be as good at shapeshifing as Abel.
Kay... here's another question. Can a Cubi hide their clan mark? Aary has had hers on her left shoulder No. Matter. What. Even when she shifted to look like Fa'Lina.
I can't find any refrence pics of Abel, though, and "Cid" always had his forearm covered. I can't find Fa'Lina's either.
(Off topic... is there any information/discussion regarding the fact that Cid looks a *LOT* like Edward?)
No, Cubi cannot hide their marks.
Abel's is in the middle of his back. It's the "tattoo" that his mother was annoyed to find on him at one point.
And yes, there -was- a discussion about Cid and Edward. I believe the consensus was "believe what you will, but there's really no proof either way. We'll have to wait and see."
I knew where/what Abel's mark was, I just couldn't find any pics of him shape-shifted in a position to see if he still had his mark.
I just realized... we haven't seen Destania's mark, have we? That would tell us what Dan's mark looks like.
Also... What does Aaryanna's mark actually look like? A crescent? I can't tell with the Purple-on-gray colors.
Ooh... that gave me an idea. Cubi could hide their real clan mark (With, like, a shirt) and fake a different one on their forehead. I don't know what sort of difference your clan makes, but it might confuse a Cubi hunter enough to get an advantage.
Destania's mark is on the framed picture Dan keeps over his bed. You know, the one that Fa'Lina hit him with? Yeah, that one. Also, it's on Fi's forehead, now.
I believe Amber also mentioned where it was going to show up, when it does. I forget what she actually said, though.
Aaryanna's mark is a crescent moon, according to her profile. Sadly I can't find any useful pictures of it -right- now...
And the fake mark thing? Why? The only reason for hiding it is to look like a Being. Having a fake mark on your forehead is likely to let you pass for a different clan, but it still puts you in danger from Adventurers hunting down rogue Cubi...
Well, it'd fool other Cubi if two clans were at odds. And a particular clan might be known for a fighting style (Dan recognized Abel's fight style as being like his mom.)
Abels fighting style is dependant on training, not clan affiliation.
I dare say -everyone- who was taught by Destania would have elements of her fighting style to their actions. Abel hasn't really trained with anyone else, though, other than the last, what, 25 years or so. So, she'd be the biggest influence on his style. Assuming that he's taken -any- training, since she left - the position that Destania had at SAIA has been more or less empty until Aaryanna took it up.
A Cubi can't change thier clan mark, but I see no reason they can't change the background. :3
In a previous thread, I suggested that a cubi could hide his mark by shape shifting teh rest of his fur or skin to match the color of it, or to shapeshift to have a pattern that disguises it.
Most 'cubi seem to wear clothing that hides thier mark, atleast when they are trying to pass as beings... Aniz/Cid's bracer, for instance.
--edit--
added "'t" where appropriate
Any particular reason why they are unable to change their Clan Marking? Is the Marking itself magical, or a product of skin-fur transition brought about by their magical activity?
My point was that a particular fighting style or magical aptitude. You know, like a family martial art passed down through the ages.
As for why they can't change their mark... I guess it's their Achilles heel. All power comes with a hook, or a price. That's their hook.
Heck, It'd drive me nuts knowing that I could look any way I like EXCEPT FOR THAT DAMN SPOT.
I imagine it'd show up through any extra fur that they shapeshifted, as well. That WOULD be annoying...
Quote from: Kayriel on January 11, 2008, 03:19:06 AM
Any particular reason why they are unable to change their Clan Marking? Is the Marking itself magical, or a product of skin-fur transition brought about by their magical activity?
Magical, I understand.
FWIW, I expect that if one were to change the background to match the colour of the mark, the mark itself would change to make itself obvious. After all, after how many thousand years of attempts, just about any way of hiding it that anyone can come up with is almost certain to have been tried, and found lacking. At least, what, in the last x thousand years since SAIA has been up and running, anyway...
Just wearing clothes over it seem to work, though. Sucks if you have the mark on your cheek, of course, but if clothes work, a magical tattoo or makeup probably would as well.
Interestingly, the question was once raised as to what would happen if a limb containing the mark was amputated. Amber's reply was something like "it would move to just before the cut", and it turns out that 'Cubi tend to regrow limbs anyway.
Well, when you can shapeshift extra limbs, anyway, I don't believe dismemberment is an issue as long as you keep your head. ... How far does their shapeshifting power GO, anyway? Does anyone know if they have total cellular control over their bodies, or is it just a mass-energy conversion? If the former, then I can see Cubi being damn impossible to kill, as a smart Cubi could instill physical regeneration in their form - or purposefully move vital organs out of the way of nasty attacks. If the latter, they shouldn't be able to create anything "more" than the base material of their natural body, nothing larger or with more matter than they themselves naturally possess.
This intrigues me, does anyone have a solid answer or good opinion?
Quote from: Kayriel on January 11, 2008, 01:00:34 PM
This intrigues me, does anyone have a solid answer or good opinion?
Amber? ;-]
I can't find a definitive reference so the 'clan mark moves' may just have been my mind playing tricks. However, here's a snipped about regeneration:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=181
As for changing size, Aary managed to shrink to the size of a feral poodle, Abel gave himself boobs and the wing-tentacles can grow to fantastic lengths if you look at the Dan vs Aary strips. This doesn't seem to come at the expense of mass elsewhere in the body so it's definitely magical in some way.
Quote from: Tapewolf on January 11, 2008, 01:59:25 PM
As for changing size, Aary managed to shrink to the size of a feral poodle, Abel gave himself boobs and the wing-tentacles can grow to fantastic lengths if you look at the Dan vs Aary strips. This doesn't seem to come at the expense of mass elsewhere in the body so it's definitely magical in some way.
Either that or Aary made for a -very- heavy poodle, and was almost completely hollow during the fight. I can see definite flaws in those ideas. (F'rinstance, how heavy does the poodle get before it's feet sink into the ground?)
mass and energy. remember not all things make sense especially in comics or when magic is involved. and look at mega man. their entire boy become energy during transportation and upon death. it's not and exact thing in the world of fiction and in the world of fact we still can't explain energy lost during normal procedures.
True, but unless specifically created so that it doesn't, you can almost always rationalize these things out. I spent a good fourteen of my fifteen years as a roleplayer doing just that. Makes for some damn good viewpoints in combat. Ultimately it'd be up to Amber, mind you, but theorizing and postulating make for great conversation, in my opinion.
indeed half my fun comes form trying to figure out things that make no sense. like the powers of the superheros in DC comics.
DC is easier to reason out than Marvel, at times. Sure, Marvel provides more background into the origins themselves usually - over DC, but rather that their explanations don't make much sense on the whole.
Franklin Richards. Resident Overpowered, Cosmic-Powered Entity, makes Galactus look like a 3rd grader. Born to a woman who can utilize invisible force fields (albeit empowered by Hyperspace energies) and a man who can... stretch. Force Field+Rubber =/= UltimoGodBoy.
you are 100% right but in marvels defense it is power of mind and body combined. Sue's power if affected by her mind and can hide a planet form the big G if she wants and on top of that she can Pierce this he can. Reeds mind is extremely powerful as well look at the thins he's built and not his body is able to harness that power and make his as flexibility and resilience as his mind is? add to that there contact wit the beyonder before fore Franklin was born there multiple encounters with cosmic radiation it only makes sen that he power would be something to do with his mind empowering his body or the like. in this care Marvel when he lets make him a mortal version of the beyonder who gave the celestial a workout in secret wars two but at the same time lets cut his power in half so that he can only access it on a planetary scale instead of the grand cosmic scale that we originally envisioned. and there you have psi lord from the fantastic five. ( i learned a lot of this over the years including when she hulk was a member of the fantastic four and psilord was a teen but that was probably and alt universe.) Franklin's mind can literally restructer realities to match his will. that's why he can make people stronger or weaker that why he can blow up planets when he'd feeling over whelmed but he's still mortal unlike the beyonder whom was later called frank. (see secret wars two issue three the beyonder conquers the world. ) and even then the beyonder did not control everything he was close but molecule man without even trying sheared off beyonders control and now i must sleep
now to spell check. will over 100 misspelled words
A few months ago, there was a discussion of Jules Verne versus H.G. Wells.
H.G. Wells usually gave some pseudo science explanation of the new inventions, but the response of Jules Verne and some others was basically that it didn't make sense and it wouldn't work. However, H.G. Wells was more interested in the impact of the inventions and developments rather than how they worked. He would probably be a reader of Marvel comics.
Jules Verne always tried to make his magnificent inventions sound reasonable, and many were extrapolations of things that were already being developed, such as the submarine. However, when you really got down to the physics of the inventions, they wouldn't work either. People couldn't work in soft diving suits at the bottom of the ocean and then return to a one atmosphere environment without undergoing long decompression or suffering internal damage to their bodies. His attitude seems closer to that of DC Comics.
I wish I read real comics...
I... I have a bunch of Punisher: War Journal issues.
And the Civil War #1-7 book.
The art was pretty.
... Please don't shun me.
(Really, I'd read more comic books if I had more money and knew where to start. I swear, it's impossible to tell what's going on unless you read from the beginning.)
Anyway... I think the core of the discussion here is suspension of disbelief. How much will we believe? Wells and Jules seem to be believable because the inventions are close enough to reality. Not dead on, but not outside the realms of possibility.
Who was it that said "The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense."?
(EDIT: Tom Clancy.)
Fiction can get away with anything that it's readers are partially informed about. They know enough to believe in it, but not enough to discount it. This is why Magic and Science are the two biggest sources of super powers. Wells got away with it, because once a reader can say, "Sure, it's magic, but let's just go with it" everything else runs smoothly. That's suspension of disbelief. (Note: I do not know a darned thing about Wells. I'm just going by what you described)
Reality doesn't have to care whether or not you believe in it. It just is, and we make our own conclusions. This, I think, is what trains us to accept fictional things. Once we are willing to go with the fact that it's true, it's up to us to rationalize it.
Which is why I try to *think* as little as possible about fiction, and go with how it feels. In fiction, it's more important for something to feel true than to be true. It can't be true. It's fiction. Sometimes it's better to just not ask "Why?" and just enjoy the story.
(EDIT: Illusion is the first of all pleasures. -Oscar Wilde)
That seems to be how a majority of people think in the world. I'm not so passive about my interests, if a certain aspect piques my curiosity, I want to know as much as I can. Especially when it's something that has combat applications to RP.
do like i do . go to the library it's free and they have back issues in the form of blade and white graphic novels as well, these novels are labeled essentials for some reason but hey i just go with it.
Quote from: e_voyager on January 12, 2008, 10:46:49 AM
do like i do . go to the library it's free and they have back issues in the form of blade and white graphic novels as well, these novels are labeled essentials for some reason but hey i just go with it.
Sadly, I do not live near a decent library. Sigh.
Quote from: rabid_fox on January 12, 2008, 07:35:56 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 11, 2008, 06:20:29 PM
I wish I read real comics...
Yer here, so you do.
I love my online comics, yes I do, my precious, but I have yet to find a comic that has art comparable some of the better Marvel work. Especially in terms of color, shadows, and composition. It's a whole different medium. (Literally.)
Likely because webcomic artists don't get the paybucks of a Marvel-licensed artist? D= And when you've got alot more time to work on it, as well.
Also, most comic books are illustrated by multiple people. One person does the rough sketching, another inks, another shades, and so on. Very few on-line comics I have found have multiple illustrators except for Lullaby (http://abacuscomics.com/lullaby.htm (http://abacuscomics.com/lullaby.htm)). Still, Marvel grade art isn't necessary to tell a story: it's just eye candy.
Mmmm... Eye candy... *flips through Spiderman*
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 12, 2008, 03:08:52 PM
Quote from: e_voyager on January 12, 2008, 10:46:49 AM
do like i do . go to the library it's free and they have back issues in the form of blade and white graphic novels as well, these novels are labeled essentials for some reason but hey i just go with it.
Sadly, I do not live near a decent library. Sigh.Quote from: rabid_fox on January 12, 2008, 07:35:56 AM
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 11, 2008, 06:20:29 PM
I wish I read real comics...
Yer here, so you do.
I love my online comics, yes I do, my precious, but I have yet to find a comic that has art comparable some of the better Marvel work. Especially in terms of color, shadows, and composition. It's a whole different medium. (Literally.)
Looking just at the quality of the line art, many web comics have equal or better art compared to drawn comics. A lot comes down to individual style, of course, and to how much effort the colorist and shader are going to put in.
As mentioned, most web comics are a labor of love by a single person or occasionally a small team.
I would consider webcomics to be an extension of the drawn medium, rather than a seperate medium, which allows for tricks that are simply not possible for traditional media (infinite canvas and animation, to name a few)
Quote from: Alondro on January 09, 2008, 10:59:51 PMNow, one thing that would be very useful as a cubi shapeshifter is to make a hollow faux body to do all the preliminary attacking, take some damage to it and make it seem to 'die'', then rise up and slaughter the gloating adventurer when he least expects it.
Unless one of the adventurer group can sense magic well. Then your real body will be discovered. Tactics like this must be used only in certain situations where applicable.
Tri-wings, suprisingly enough, can morph themselves into an entire town, buildings included. How do you find a needle in a haystack?QuoteWell, when you can shapeshift extra limbs, anyway, I don't believe dismemberment is an issue as long as you keep your head. ... How far does their shapeshifting power GO, anyway? Does anyone know if they have total cellular control over their bodies, or is it just a mass-energy conversion? If the former, then I can see Cubi being damn impossible to kill, as a smart Cubi could instill physical regeneration in their form - or purposefully move vital organs out of the way of nasty attacks. If the latter, they shouldn't be able to create anything "more" than the base material of their natural body, nothing larger or with more matter than they themselves naturally possess.
Amber hasn't quite gone into that much detail yet. The only real explanations given for metamorphosis was in the (until further notice, should be considered non canon) post I made once, Doctor Ink lecturing in Met. I class. Metamorphosis is a pseudomagical skill that depends on the 'cubi's willpower, imagination, and mind. As such, they have a sort of "limited" total cellular control over their bodies; in so far as you can only go as far your mind will take you.
Unfortunately, this gives some limitations. There's pain. If you are being hurt by a massive blade, you generally have a hard time thinking of anything other than the pain. How then would you concentrate on something like moving your vital organs out of the way? Of course, the Met. I course does train you in this, with sessions in which you try to keep your shifted form stable despite application of pain. The latter of which I am all to happy to oblige students with. (This, admittedly, would have helped Abel's fear of the 'trial by blunt object' brigade, but it would still hurt.)
The logical solution, move every last nerve ending out of the way? Well, that would work, but then you'd be too busy thinking; with which nerves to move relative to where the blade will hit, where to move them, and actually concentrating on moving them, in addition with your vital organs. By the time you've thought about all that, unfortunately, your head would have been lopped off by the adventurer because you were standing there idle for a good five minutes. There's only so more information you can process at a single moment in time.
How about bundling all your pain receptors and vital organs into an unlikely focus point before the battle? Well, then you run into problems with your anatomy. And this addresses moving your vital organs in the first place. First few problems arise when it takes you longer than it normally would for you to breathe, as you moved your lungs somewhere else. Or when you find yourself out of breath because you shrank your lungs to make it harder to it. Or when you put your stomach above your esophagus somehow and the hydrochloric acid starts pouring backwards to the unprotected esophagus. There are so many reasons why your organs are where they should be.
It is, thusly, far more effective to move out of the way. To dodge like a normal person would. It would only take one synapse (1/7th of a second) long to do that and it would move everything relevant out of the way of that huge blade coming at you.
Moving on to regeneration. You run in to the same problems. First of course, pain. You can't regenerate when the pain of your being sliced open like an orange is clouding your mind. Second, is your knowledge of anatomy. If you can't imagine what a spleen looks like or what kind of tissue it's made of straight off the bat while you're fighting someone, you immediately run into problems. Oh, sure, you'd probably win the battle with the adventurer, but you'll die of overwhelming post splenectomy infection (OPSI) which can kill within a few hours, because you got the spleen wrong.
<Ink> "I am a 'cubi! I shapeshift! You hurt my spleen! I regenerate it!.. wait, what does a spleen look like?"
<Haz> X3
<Dannysaysnoo> heh
<Poofyspikes> Lawl.
<Ink> Then he runs into problems with blood poisoning from asplenia.
'Regeneration' is like performing surgery on yourself. If you don't know what you're doing, don't.
To conclude, regeneration and 'internal' dodging? Far too unfeasible in the heat of real combat. Metamorphosis is a gentler skill than that, one must never forget it is primarily used for subterfuge and of course, novelty.
Amber wrote at one point that the regeneration was automatic, although it might be possible for some 'Cubi to find a way to control it.
As for dodging a blade, IMHO it would be easier to simply harden the part it's going to hit, like Demons do. This is surely possible (and likely fairly easy) since it's possible to make the tentacles hard enough to stab or cut with. (Unless the tentacles are somehow special, of course)
I wouldn't be too surprised if it was this kind of technique which Aniz used when Abel hit him with the chair.
As to tri wings being able to morph into a whole city, and the coresponding pain disrupts concentration issue, could an adventurer simply stab a few cobbles, walls, and such to test if the city was real? (Granted, this raises the issue of property damage if the adventurer was wrong, and also what would make them suspicious in the first place?) Would a cubi old enoughto have third wings be well trained/disciplined/used to pain that they wouldn't lose the concentration required to maintain the "city morph"?
Edit: REVIEW: my post has a disclaimer that it should not be taken as canon, I wouldn't know any more than you would.
Just to clear that up, that's regeneration via controlled shapeshifting. The 'automatic' regeneration sounds sort of a different ability and probably far more canon than this block of text.
And, sitting there and taking blows is still a very foolhardy thing to too, even if you turn your skin into a suit of armour. (i.e. What if your enemy cooks your insides by heating your 'armour' up like an oven?) I would think that dodging is still the best thing to do, or outright avoiding conflict to begin with. Aniz, as with all other 'cubi, know that when you're fighting, your cover is generally blown and you're screwed. You can even make yourself more screwed by killing more than you really intend to.
Quote from: Ink on January 13, 2008, 07:54:13 PM
Edit: REVIEW: my post has a disclaimer that it should not be taken as canon, I wouldn't know any more than you would.
Just to clear that up, that's regeneration via controlled shapeshifting. The 'automatic' regeneration sounds sort of a different ability and probably far more canon than this block of text.
And, sitting there and taking blows is still a very foolhardy thing to too, even if you turn your skin into a suit of armour. (i.e. What if your enemy cooks your insides by heating your 'armour' up like an oven?) I would think that dodging is still the best thing to do, or outright avoiding conflict to begin with. Aniz, as with all other 'cubi, know that when you're fighting, your cover is generally blown and you're screwed. You can even make yourself more screwed by killing more than you really intend to.
For these responses, your tea should taste like joy. But now, onto my reply. Obviously these would not be the tricks of a novice or even your regular plot-centric cubi, but I was exploring the possibility, even if only to a Cubus of incredible power. I've come across opponents before who were able to divide their attentions equally, something of a "dual mind" aspect, where concentration is handled subconsciously, though it still requires effort, and simultaneously they can focus on the battle at hand. The Cubi seem to be within this realm of ability from what I can tell, though I only have personal experience to fall back upon, and no insider information.
With the kind of effects possible through total cellular control, such as the carbonizing of flesh at impact points, creating a biological diamond-like substance, or providing a crystal prism to reflect certain sorts of spells, or perhaps even disembodied remote cellular order - infecting an opponent with the flesh of the Cubi so that they may affect their enemy at range in some fashion. Even if your information is non-canon, it is warming to find someone who would respond to a post in this way, and I'd like to entertain more theories and observations, in any case.
Where did you get the "tri-wings can morph into an entire town" idea?
I would turn into a banana and sing the banana phone song when people get near me. :boogie banana! :boogie
And then a Mythos might eat you just to shut you up. =D Horrible, evil song. =.=
Before the mythos could eat me i would turn into a nascar hat.
Psst... That only works agaisnt most cubi. I doubt mythos mind eating redneck.
When you think about it, I would have fun with any of the cubi abilities. I mean, combined with the existence of magic, the possabilities are endless.
Immortality
- Nough' said. Any reasonable intelligent cubi would realise that with the application of 20-30 years time, they could become richer then most beings and still have the entirety of their life before them. That and the ability to arrange for some truly Machiavellian plots to further our own wants and ends. Though to be truthful, I just want to be rich!
Shapechanging
- Probably the most limited of the set, however, it is still cool as all. Especially with the wings, tentacles and stuff. I know me working at a computer would become more efficient, and though it never was canon, if you can see out of the wing heads, it's another world of fun. Perverts get their pantie shots, fighters get an extra fist, and the handyman has an extra hand. On the other side of things, if it's too hot, you can change your skin, if it's too cold, you can change that too. You never have to worry about whether that dress will fit.
Emotional Feeding
- The most fun of all. A reason to try to surround yourself with emotions. I could see myself as a despair cubi, working as an attendant at a funeral home, or the barkeep working at the comedy club to feed off of laughter. There are thousands of places where you could stick yourself to get a significant boost in power. Like pain? Try being a medic!
Magic
- This is the most diverse, and as I run out of time, the shortest. It's the ultimate mystery, and with time on your side, you have all you need to do truly great things. If magic feeds off of you, combine that with the emotional feeding for a powerhouse!
Now I want to write fanfiction.
Quote from: Chaos on January 24, 2008, 12:33:15 AM
Immortality
- Nough' said. Any reasonable intelligent cubi would realise that with the application of 20-30 years time, they could become richer then most beings and still have the entirety of their life before them. That and the ability to arrange for some truly Machiavellian plots to further our own wants and ends. Though to be truthful, I just want to be rich!
Also, you have fewer ongoing expenses. Food, for instance, is a treat rather than a necessity. Taxes notwithstanding, all you really need is a roof over your head and even that's mostly a convenience. Now you
are liable to spend more on clothes than a Being, not just because 'Cubi powers tend to include a highly acute sense of fashion, but also because they don't need to sleep. You might of course, to keep up the disguise, but if you don't, you'll be wearing the same set of clothes for 24 hours a day.
QuoteProbably the most limited of the set, however, it is still cool as all. Especially with the wings, tentacles and stuff. I know me working at a computer would become more efficient,and though it never was canon, if you can see out of the wing heads, it's another world of fun.
Amber said it works, although it obviously takes some training to use since it's like having a new pair of eyes turn up in the back of your head. And yeah, I've done the tentacle data-entry thing in my 'Future History' story :3
I also figured that you can live a life of crime by morphing the tentacle into a lockpick which you can adjust to the lock on-the-fly, which my character 'Snell' does.
QuoteNow I want to write fanfiction.
Indeed. There's so many weird and wonderful things you can do with 'Cubi...
**EDIT**
You missed 'thought-reading'. Another of Snell's little tricks was to impersonate a checkout person at the supermarket and steal the PIN numbers from people's minds as they entered them into the machine at point of sale (*). The supermarket's copy of the till receipt should provide most of the other info you need to construct a copy of the card.
* I don't think the US does this yet, but in the UK and probably Europe, most sales are made by entering the card's PIN to a secure terminal instead of a signature.
In the United States, "debit cards" (the money comes directly from your bank account) require the entry of a PIN number and can be used like a credit card to pay for things.
I don't know if the register records enough information to duplicate the card. If it can, that would be a security vulnerability. Some systems don't even record the credit card number, using a transaction number from the computer at the other end, instead.
However, you could record all of the needed information if you were willing to modify the software for the register. However, in this case, you could record the PIN number as well.
Quote from: Naldru on January 24, 2008, 02:26:28 PM
In the United States, "debit cards" (the money comes directly from your bank account) require the entry of a PIN number and can be used like a credit card to pay for things.
Yes, that's the stuff, except here it's done for both credit and debit cards.
QuoteI don't know if the register records enough information to duplicate the card. If it can, that would be a security vulnerability. Some systems don't even record the credit card number, using a transaction number from the computer at the other end, instead.
I wrote that a couple of hours before my weekly supermarket trip. On my receipt it has printed everything except the PIN, and the card number shows only the last four digits.
However if you can mind-read the PIN, you can probably get the card number somehow.
If you can't mind-read it, you could, perhaps, turn your hand to the consistency of putty so that when you take the card to swipe it for the store savings card, the embossed number remains on your fingertips >:3
Or you can swipe it across a card reader, and pick up that info from the mag strip.
Someone I know had that happen when the waitress looked at the card, said it looked dirty, gave it a quick swipe across her apron, then ran it through the machine.
Yes, it really is -that- fast.
Well, here. I have just developed a completely crackpot theory how 'Cubi can shape-shift:
I figure that it has everything to do with energy-manipulation. First, for 'Cubi, I figure that a 'Cubi's soul is a pool of pure energy, invisible, which contains all memories, personality data, and a bit of processing power, somehow. So, for a few seconds, said soul can exist alone without any sort of body.
Next, I figure that, for any sort of shape-shifting, any molecules that need to be changed for the transformation need to be converted to pure energy and then into the proper type of molecule and state of the finished form.
So, in essence, no 'Cubi can create a form larger than the total amount of energy he/she has at his/her command - total stored energy in the current form + soul energy. This means that, as Ink stated, a Tri-wing can shape-shift into an entire town, while someone without much in the way of energy, like Dan, couldn't shape-shift into anything more than a tad bigger than his current form. Of course, the wings *do* count toward the total, and so if the final form has no wings, it can be larger. I figure that the head-wings appear when the total stored spare energy is larger than the amount needed for the head-wings themselves.
Next thing you need for shape-shifting, is that you need to know exactly, cell-by-cell what the form you want to take is, which is why it is rarely done. Hiding wings is much easier, as that information is built in, and most likely very easy to do, compared to a new form.
Obviously, there would be a couple of safeguards, such that your brain wouldn't let you shape-shift if you didn't have a clear form in mind, or if there was a problem in the form you were attempting to shift to, like it not being able to breathe for one reason or another.
Small size wise, I suppose it would be possible to become something as small as say... a mouse, but you would have to worry about getting eaten, and all that, which is why you don't see people doing it.
The wing-tentacles use a completely different mechanism, however being mostly pure energy, although control is automated by your subconscious, which is why its easy to control.
Obviously, this theory needs a bit of work, but thats why I posted it.
-RobbieThe1st
Quote from: Chaos on January 24, 2008, 12:33:15 AM
Immortality
- Nough' said. Any reasonable intelligent cubi would realise that with the application of 20-30 years time, they could become richer then most beings and still have the entirety of their life before them. That and the ability to arrange for some truly Machiavellian plots to further our own wants and ends. Though to be truthful, I just want to be rich!
Ah, but how rich is rich? Surely Furrae's economy has adpated to the presence of all those Creatures--essentially an entrenched aristocracy going back millenia. There must be a
huge gap between rich and poor. Goods and services to satisfy Being needs (food, clothing, shelter) would be normally priced, but Cubi don't really need those anyway. The prices of luxury items, on the other hand, would presumably be corrected for a primary clientele whose investments have been accumulating interest for centuries.
As an aside, I wonder what passes for money in Furrae. Under the hood, I mean. We've seen that the world is divided into a lot of relatively small kingdoms that don't necessarily get along--and thus wouldn't benefit from recognizing each others' legal tender. Furthermore, we know that the kinds of raw materials that have been historically used to tranport value in our world (precious metals and stones, fuels, spices, etc.) are easily conjured (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_652.php). So trade would consist mainly of highly processed goods, but those would be so varied that I don't see anything emerging as a de facto standard unit of exchange. To make a global economy function, you'd pretty much need a world bank with a currency arbitrarily backed by the Creature Council--the only organization with the necessary clout.
Quote from: Tapewolf on January 24, 2008, 06:40:11 AM
I also figured that you can live a life of crime by morphing the tentacle into a lockpick which you can adjust to the lock on-the-fly, which my character 'Snell' does.
Heh. That's actually how my Warp-Aci got his name (Ky = "key" :3).
QuoteYou missed 'thought-reading'. Another of Snell's little tricks was to impersonate a checkout person at the supermarket and steal the PIN numbers from people's minds as they entered them into the machine at point of sale (*). The supermarket's copy of the till receipt should provide most of the other info you need to construct a copy of the card.
Hmm... I question whether thought reading would be that useful for grabbing PINs. For people like me who use cash maybe once a month, if that, and pay for everything else with credit/debit, entering PINs requires little conscious intervention--the secret data is stored in muscle memory.
Incidentally, it's not unknown around here for unscrupulous store employees to install interceptors that record the data stream between the POS terminal and the verification company. I actually had my credit card "stolen" that way a couple of months ago. And I was out of the country when the bank froze my card due to the suspicious transactions--not a very convenient time to have your primary card stop working. :animesweat
'Course, stealing people's grocery money seems very small potatoes compared to the huge scams one could potentially pull off as a telepathic shapeshifter. >:]
Quote from: Tezkat on January 25, 2008, 10:25:06 AM
Hmm... I question whether thought reading would be that useful for grabbing PINs. For people like me who use cash maybe once a month, if that, and pay for everything else with credit/debit, entering PINs requires little conscious intervention--the secret data is stored in muscle memory.
I still have to consciously remember the number, even though I use cash very, very rarely. But unless they make a conscious effort not to look at the keypad, you could pick up the keys they press from their vision, since you seem to be able to see pictures as well as hear the inner voice.
The supermarket scam was the one I used in the story, but ATMs are probably better. In the UK there have been some incredibly elaborate scams to get the PIN, from people covertly watching over your shoulder to a remote camera disguised as a pack of leaflets. With telepathy, you can remove all that effort >:3
Quote'Course, stealing people's grocery money seems very small potatoes compared to the huge scams one could potentially pull off as a telepathic shapeshifter. >:]
It's about stealing their card details >:3
There's far better ways of dealing with it, honestly.
Steal the card, put in a charge for $5 or something. Chances are, most folks won't notice.
If you can get away with it, you can hit it for that every other month from here until expiry time, and won't even get clipped for it. Multiply that by the number of cards you could steal by, say, taking a day off and standing on a corner near the ATM with a book and a pen, apparently filling in sudoku strips, and you could well manage an extremely nice lifestyle.
Without many folks noticing, even.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on January 25, 2008, 11:34:10 AM
There's far better ways of dealing with it, honestly.
The bulk of what you've described (taking small chunks from many cards) is exactly what he'd have done with the card details once he had them, but yes, hanging around near an ATM reading people's thoughts is a much less clunky approach.
... especially the corner I have in mind, which is near Moorgate station, and has 5 ATMs in a row...
Quote from: Tezkat on January 25, 2008, 10:25:06 AM
*Snip*
Now we're getting into fun.
This is obviously a society where the Gold standard just cannot hold true. While pretty, there is no rarity when demand can be supplied with a thought, while there are exceptions, let's pass on them for the moment. This means that Silk cloth is more valuable then Gold, wood more high class then stainless steel. The economy would then gear towards those things that need manufacturing rather then creation. Factories taking place of mines, more need for farmers, so forth and so on.
Now as to how rich is rich, there is one universal constant. When you get the principle of compound interest in your corner, you take off. I could see a cubi owning a mall and 12 business offices and living off of the rent income, investing the rest...
Quote from: Chaos on January 25, 2008, 03:36:16 PM
This is obviously a society where the Gold standard just cannot hold true. While pretty, there is
no rarity when demand can be supplied with a thought,
It's a bit more asymmetric than that.
Creatures can create it (although we don't know how much it exerts them to do this - they might have to eat something to recover their strength) but Beings
can't. They would have to either mine it themselves, or purchase it from Creatures, which makes the dynamics rather interesting.
Thinking about it, what you'd probably end up with is the Creatures providing Beings with raw materials, and Beings supplying Creatures with finished goods.
Quote from: Tapewolf on January 25, 2008, 04:04:13 PM
Quote from: Chaos on January 25, 2008, 03:36:16 PM
This is obviously a society where the Gold standard just cannot hold true. While pretty, there is
no rarity when demand can be supplied with a thought,
Thinking about it, what you'd probably end up with is the Creatures providing Beings with raw materials, and Beings supplying Creatures with finished goods.
That could be a reason why the Creature Council is feeling threatened by Jy's dead-magic creations, and his progress. If he gets to an energy->matter stage in his work, they'll lose their main economic foothold, and since nothing of his relies on magic, they have nothing to supply, and the Beings become autonomous.
Quote from: Kayriel on January 25, 2008, 05:50:24 PM
That could be a reason why the Creature Council is feeling threatened by Jy's dead-magic creations, and his progress. If he gets to an energy->matter stage in his work, they'll lose their main economic foothold, and since nothing of his relies on magic, they have nothing to supply, and the Beings become autonomous.
Remember e=mc squared. Total mass conversion provides a stupendous amount of energy, and that means the converse is true. Unless he has an energy source of stellar proportions, he's not going to be able to do any significant energy->matter conversion on a purely technological basis.
IMHO they're more scared of the weapons technology.
Eh, I think that the Creature Council is just scared of change in general. Creatures live for centuries, a good bit live for millennia. Anything that old tends be set into their ways very strongly. Things like what Jyrras is making don't gradually affect the world, they change the world quickly. And that sudden change is what the Creatures fear, just my opinion.
Quote from: Tapewolf on January 25, 2008, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: Kayriel on January 25, 2008, 05:50:24 PM
That could be a reason why the Creature Council is feeling threatened by Jy's dead-magic creations, and his progress. If he gets to an energy->matter stage in his work, they'll lose their main economic foothold, and since nothing of his relies on magic, they have nothing to supply, and the Beings become autonomous.
Remember e=mc squared. Total mass conversion provides a stupendous amount of energy, and that means the converse is true. Unless he has an energy source of stellar proportions, he's not going to be able to do any significant energy->matter conversion on a purely technological basis.
IMHO they're more scared of the weapons technology.
Which I'm well aware of. However, he has been shown to combine his non-magical technology with magical energy sources in the past. (See: Deebs) - On top of which, the lack of apparent innate magic in the material or working of his machines means that adding magic into the working would have an almost definite success rate, without any other magic to interfere. I'm also wondering if magic-users can exert any control over materials without base magicks...
Quote from: Chaos on January 25, 2008, 03:36:16 PM
Now as to how rich is rich, there is one universal constant. When you get the principle of compound interest in your corner, you take off. I could see a cubi owning a mall and 12 business offices and living off of the rent income, investing the rest...
Maybe, maybe not... In such a system, real estate is one of the few things that's likely to retain value--there's a fixed amount of land and won't be any more no matter how many centuries you live. I'd imagine that much of it would be concentrated in the hands of a small number of very powerful people (kings, Creature families, etc.). The compound interest thing would apply to all Creatures, many of whom could afford to wait decades or even centuries to see a return on their investments, so the barrier to entry into the market could be set quite high, even for younger Creatures.
Quote from: Tapewolf on January 25, 2008, 04:04:13 PM
It's a bit more asymmetric than that. Creatures can create it (although we don't know how much it exerts them to do this - they might have to eat something to recover their strength) but Beings can't. They would have to either mine it themselves, or purchase it from Creatures, which makes the dynamics rather interesting.
Thinking about it, what you'd probably end up with is the Creatures providing Beings with raw materials, and Beings supplying Creatures with finished goods.
I'd imagine that most of the raw materials would still be mined/grown/collected. I don't think it would be in most Creatures' best interests to waste energy becoming resource suppliers unless otherwise inaccessible resources would greatly benefit their domain. (For instance, Tezkat's father in the RP timelines created a spring in the middle of the desert, and a city grew around that.) In that light, it's even possible that Beings would still value things like gold. But that still couldn't form a stable global currency standard if any Creature could crash the market with a little conjuring marathon.
Quote from: Pagan on January 25, 2008, 06:10:30 PM
Eh, I think that the Creature Council is just scared of change in general. Creatures live for centuries, a good bit live for millennia. Anything that old tends be set into their ways very strongly. Things like what Jyrras is making don't gradually affect the world, they change the world quickly. And that sudden change is what the Creatures fear, just my opinion.
I don't think it's change per se that the Creatures fear. Since they mostly own the means of production, and processed goods are more valuable in this world, investing in technology would simply improve their own lots. The industrial revolution wouldn't have happened without Creatures like Akaen, for instance. What would have them worried is losing control of the process now that technology has reached a critical rate of growth. The conflict parallels our own information age revolutions, when dynastic capitalist powers encountered world-changing innovations coming from young entrepreneurs' basements.
Here in Canadia, our supermarkets print recipts with numbers that look like this:
"Debit: XXXXXXXXXXXX8002"
And if you ask for cash, they make you sign the cashiers copy of the slip.
As for not needing to eat as a cubi... you do kind of have to feed off other sentient beings. That might get you, like, hunted by law enforcement. Kind of a downside.
Know how I'd make money as a Cubi? I'd have a dozen children and start a family business. Three generations later, the family is well taken care of and I'm the head of a coporation (Assuming the business goes well, of course).
Quote from: Tezkat on January 26, 2008, 01:02:46 AM
Quote from: Pagan on January 25, 2008, 06:10:30 PM
Eh, I think that the Creature Council is just scared of change in general. Creatures live for centuries, a good bit live for millennia. Anything that old tends be set into their ways very strongly. Things like what Jyrras is making don't gradually affect the world, they change the world quickly. And that sudden change is what the Creatures fear, just my opinion.
I don't think it's change per se that the Creatures fear. Since they mostly own the means of production, and processed goods are more valuable in this world, investing in technology would simply improve their own lots. The industrial revolution wouldn't have happened without Creatures like Akaen, for instance. What would have them worried is losing control of the process now that technology has reached a critical rate of growth. The conflict parallels our own information age revolutions, when dynastic capitalist powers encountered world-changing innovations coming from young entrepreneurs' basements.
The Age of chivalry was ended with the advent of gunpowder. Whatever armor a knight could wear, a bullet would go right through.
For however long they've been around, creature have been on top thanks to natural selection. #343 (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_343.php) Suddenly, a being with a gun turns into a much bigger problem. Now they're armed as well as if they had spells. And any creature can pick up a gun. Bows are probably annoying enough, but assault rifles? Your lifespan doesn't mean much when you suddenly have to treat every being in the world as a threat, instead of just the ones with magic, or high combat skills. (And don't tell me guns won't kill a creature. DP fell to a freaking sword.) Beings are, probably, far more prolific than Creatures too, which means that if natural selection favors the ones with guns, the creatures are probably sunk in a generation or two.
(BTW: I think this the "work" Mab is talking about at the bottom of panel one of #837 (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_837.php), and why she got Albanion to put the wrist-wards on him.)
Quote from: WhiteFox on January 26, 2008, 06:10:14 AM
As for not needing to eat as a cubi... you do kind of have to feed off other sentient beings. That might get you, like, hunted by law enforcement. Kind of a downside.
"Kind of have to", not "have to". It depends whether you can avoid the temptation, but 'Cubi don't
need to eat souls in order to survive. AFAIK, passive emotion feeding will see you through a couple of millennia, and besides, there are other ways of increasing your power and lifespan - it's just that soul-slaying is quicker and easier, notwithstanding the price on your head.
The dream thing is another way of gaining energy, by the way, at least according to the calendar.
I don't know what it's like with Demons and Angels since they don't have the emotional energy fallback.
Probably a strict diet of souls and flesh, I'd say, likely with Angels able to draw in more energy from souls than flesh, and demons being the opposite. I mean, Kria's last name is Soulstealer, but how much more eating beings have we seen her at than soul-stealing? Maybe both at once?
For no reason i would turn into Head On. Apply directly to the forehead. D: