The Clockwork Mansion

The Grand Hallway => The Outer Fortress => Topic started by: Shadrok on July 17, 2007, 05:58:58 PM

Title: Laptop Question
Post by: Shadrok on July 17, 2007, 05:58:58 PM
I'm thinking of getting a laptop to work on art with but I don't know if I should get a Dell (like my desktop) or go with some other brand.

What are some good laptop brands?
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Fuyudenki on July 17, 2007, 06:15:39 PM
Though there's a stigma attached to the brand, Sony VAIO laptops are great, as long as you're not gaming.

For gaming, you would want to go with either Alienware or there's another company that makes effectively the same thing.  I forgot the name, but early Alienware laptops were actually this company's laptops with retooled cases.

I think Gateway also has good laptops, but I haven't heard much about them.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Aridas on July 17, 2007, 06:17:56 PM
I thought the general idea of Alienware was "it's alright, but it's still overpriced crap, find another one"
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Tapewolf on July 17, 2007, 06:23:42 PM
Try to get one with a decent screen, if it's for art.  It might be a good idea to check them out in-store rather than buying online - otherwise you could have colour problems.
(For what it's worth, I simply cannot use my Toshiba for anything colour-related, and believe me I tried)
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Fuyudenki on July 17, 2007, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on July 17, 2007, 06:17:56 PM
I thought the general idea of Alienware was "it's alright, but it's still overpriced crap, find another one"

Actually, that could be said of anything you didn't build yourself, or get one of your tech-savvy friends to build.

Guess who manufactures all of my computers.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Aridas on July 17, 2007, 06:48:47 PM
It's overpriced for anything. I can compare a similarly specced PC from Alienware to one in my local store, and the one in the local store is still a MUCH better deal. We're talking differences in the hundreds.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: DarkAudit on July 17, 2007, 07:20:53 PM
Whoever it is, make sure they give you the choice to have XP preloaded instead of Vista. I finally had enough of the nitpicky little annoyances to put XP back on this system. Having to reboot multiple times to be able to finish a backup was the last straw (apparently there's some ~16K file limit on how many files you can copy from one place to another without having to reboot)
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: bill on July 17, 2007, 08:19:25 PM
Odd, Vista doesn't do that for me.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Brunhidden on July 17, 2007, 08:38:19 PM
Im looking for a laptop too- but im looking for something different. i do not want wireless internet, a whole bunch of fancy features, and whatever else laptops keep advertising they have. i want a glorified typewriter, for cheap, and i don't care if it weighs ten pounds. i would actually prefer the complete lack of internet and games, they distract me too much.


QuoteIts time to chew ass and kick bubblegum, and I'm all out of ass
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Kryptic on July 17, 2007, 09:11:19 PM
I remember seeing a laptop that had a pivoting screen with a built in tablet, on the screen.

Now, that's a computer for art. I'd really love one of those... I think Toshiba makes 'em.

I personally don't have any preferences or opinions on the hardware. Whatever runs.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: xHaZxMaTx on July 17, 2007, 10:32:26 PM
Good luck finding a laptop without built-in WiFi.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 18, 2007, 12:03:08 AM
Dells run hot.

Gateway, I haven't heard much either way.

Sony, the long-term support bites, they tend to drop anything older than about a year and a half, and stop doing any support on them at all. Throw in the sony my bro had, that they replaced the hdd 3 times in 4 months, taking a month each time (and this is in london, where you'd expect, given the sheer number of sales they had, there'd be a reasonable tech center...)

Toshibas are solid laptops. Avoid the really little ones - they're good, but being that light, you're paying for lightness... Shadrok, I think Tapewolf covered it for you. Brun, you probably want an nice 1-2GHz toshi tecra series, if you can find one. Heavy, solid, and they'll work until you die of old age.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Zorro on July 18, 2007, 12:09:14 AM
Quote from: xHaZxMaTx on July 17, 2007, 10:32:26 PM
Good luck finding a laptop without built-in WiFi.

Not really you can usually pull out the WiFi Card.  That or just disable the drivers.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: techmaster-glitch on July 18, 2007, 12:18:44 AM
Yeah, Toshibas are good comps/tops, as this flash shows, lol (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/344416)
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: xHaZxMaTx on July 18, 2007, 12:19:47 AM
Quote from: Zorro on July 18, 2007, 12:09:14 AM
Quote from: xHaZxMaTx on July 17, 2007, 10:32:26 PM
Good luck finding a laptop without built-in WiFi.

Not really you can usually pull out the WiFi Card.  That or just disable the drivers.
Of course, but my point is that nearly all if not all laptops came with WiFi, anymore.

Anyway, I just picked up an Acer Aspiron series the other day, and when I first turned it on I got a blue screen error, and after that, the screen was all screwy and I had to replace that one with another laptop. :/

My dad has ad his IBM for a few years, now, and the way it's built, it feels like you could drop it out a second story window and it would be fine.  Haven't had any tremendous problems with it since he's had it, either.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 18, 2007, 12:25:14 AM
More recent IBM's have been... let out to a third party to build.

The build quality has suffered somewhat.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Fuyudenki on July 18, 2007, 12:45:35 AM
Quote from: Brunhidden da Muse on July 17, 2007, 08:38:19 PM
Im looking for a laptop too- but im looking for something different. i do not want wireless internet, a whole bunch of fancy features, and whatever else laptops keep advertising they have. i want a glorified typewriter, for cheap, and i don't care if it weighs ten pounds. i would actually prefer the complete lack of internet and games, they distract me too much.
Keep an eye out at yardsales and pawn shops.  I once picked up a laptop with a monochrome screen, single floppy drive, and Windows 95 for the OS for about $10 at a yardsale.  No USB, no optical drives, and a tiny hard drive.

Only downsides were that the screen also would not stay up, and it had an eraser-head mouse.  No touch pad.

Well, that, and I had to transfer any files that I wanted on it via 1.4MB floppy disk.

Quote from: Brunhidden da Muse on July 17, 2007, 08:38:19 PM
QuoteIts time to chew ass and kick bubblegum, and I'm all out of ass

Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Reese Tora on July 18, 2007, 01:20:29 AM
As a general rule, the things that make a computer good for gaming make it good for graphics processing.  RAM is more important when you start with graphics programs, especially memory hungry programs like photoshop.

If you want a windows XP machine, I can tell you that I've had some limited success installing it (including hardware drivers) for HP laptops.  I don't think much of thier tech support, though.
(And that based only on my experience getting laptops sent in for replacement.)
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: superluser on July 18, 2007, 02:24:20 AM
Quote from: Raist on July 18, 2007, 12:45:35 AMKeep an eye out at yardsales and pawn shops.  I once picked up a laptop with a monochrome screen, single floppy drive, and Windows 95 for the OS for about $10 at a yardsale.  No USB, no optical drives, and a tiny hard drive.

Only downsides were that the screen also would not stay up, and it had an eraser-head mouse.  No touch pad.

Well, that, and I had to transfer any files that I wanted on it via 1.4MB floppy disk.

Luxury!  I remember we used to have a Zenith 286 SuperSport laptop.  Two double-density (720K) drives, no HD.  I remember that one of the DOS versions (3.3, I think) wasn't supposed to work (an issue with subdirectories, if I recall correctly), but we made it go.  Through strange incantations, we eventually got DOS 5 to boot on it, but it wouldn't do much more than that.

That's what I'd recommend if you want to do word processing.  Get yourself a copy of Wordperfect, and it will work just fine.

As to graphics...

Quote from: Reese Tora on July 18, 2007, 01:20:29 AMAs a general rule, the things that make a computer good for gaming make it good for graphics processing.  RAM is more important when you start with graphics programs, especially memory hungry programs like photoshop.

Actually, there's at least one thing that's good for gaming that can be largely irrelevant for some types graphics processing... speed.  If you're working with static images, you can sacrifice speed for RAM.  Don't sacrifice too much, or else your programs will run like molasses.  But remember--without enough RAM, it will run like *cold* molasses, anyways.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: bill on July 18, 2007, 09:10:39 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 18, 2007, 12:03:08 AM
Dells run hot.
Not unbearably so, from my experience. I've had Dell laptops all my life, with the exception of a Gateway a few years back, and a horrifically bad Vaio from several years back. They've always been generally good, though my father's just had a head crash on his. D:
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Ryudo Lee on July 18, 2007, 09:26:35 AM
A buddy of mine owns a computer store, and he's setting up a fairly decent Acer laptop for me.  In my experience, Acer laptops are good machines.  Also good are HP laptops, believe it or not.  I've had nothing but good experiences with both of them.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Azlan on July 18, 2007, 05:40:57 PM
I'm pretty poor with laptops, my last one met with a fine end at the hands of a Light 50... it was a Toshiba Satellite.

My current one is a fairly plain Compaq with a Turion TL-50 X2, it gets the job done. 

My experience with Dell laptops comes from my time supporting the NMCI and their Dell system base.  they use regular laptops and ruggidized models for field deployment... these things run relatively hot, not good in a laptop.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 18, 2007, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: BillBuckner on July 18, 2007, 09:10:39 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 18, 2007, 12:03:08 AM
Dells run hot.
Not unbearably so, from my experience. I've had Dell laptops all my life, with the exception of a Gateway a few years back, and a horrifically bad Vaio from several years back. They've always been generally good, though my father's just had a head crash on his. D:

They're reasonably ok - certainly the dell I have is fine (work bought it for me, otherwise I'd have considered a toshiba)

Just... hotter than they really -ought- to be. General use, that sort of thing. Indicates that they're sucking more power, which suggests you might get longer battery life with a cooler laptop.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Shadrok on July 18, 2007, 09:43:22 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 17, 2007, 06:23:42 PM
Try to get one with a decent screen, if it's for art.  It might be a good idea to check them out in-store rather than buying online - otherwise you could have colour problems.
(For what it's worth, I simply cannot use my Toshiba for anything colour-related, and believe me I tried)
what type of Toshiba do you have?


From what I gather I should either get a Toshiba (and make sure the monitor's color settings are right) or an Acer.

My first computer was an Acer desktop which only lasted 4 years (1998 - 2002) before out right dieing.

The whole heat issue with Dells has me second guessing getting one of them, even though I've had my Dell desktop for about 6 years (2001 - to now) now and only had to replace the hard drive once.

Should I get a 9 cell or a 6 cell battery and what about duo processors?
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: bill on July 18, 2007, 09:47:03 PM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 18, 2007, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: BillBuckner on July 18, 2007, 09:10:39 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 18, 2007, 12:03:08 AM
Dells run hot.
Not unbearably so, from my experience. I've had Dell laptops all my life, with the exception of a Gateway a few years back, and a horrifically bad Vaio from several years back. They've always been generally good, though my father's just had a head crash on his. D:

They're reasonably ok - certainly the dell I have is fine (work bought it for me, otherwise I'd have considered a toshiba)

Just... hotter than they really -ought- to be. General use, that sort of thing. Indicates that they're sucking more power, which suggests you might get longer battery life with a cooler laptop.
Doesn't really bother me, as I generally use it on a desk/counter.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: bill on July 18, 2007, 09:48:35 PM
Quote from: Shadrok on July 18, 2007, 09:43:22 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 17, 2007, 06:23:42 PM
Try to get one with a decent screen, if it's for art.  It might be a good idea to check them out in-store rather than buying online - otherwise you could have colour problems.
(For what it's worth, I simply cannot use my Toshiba for anything colour-related, and believe me I tried)
what type of Toshiba do you have?


From what I gather I should either get a Toshiba (and make sure the monitor's color settings are right) or an Acer.

My first computer was an Acer desktop which only lasted 4 years (1998 - 2002) before out right dieing.

The whole heat issue with Dells has me second guessing getting one of them, even though I've had my Dell desktop for about 6 years (2001 - to now) now and only had to replace the hard drive once.

Should I get a 9 cell or a 6 cell battery and what about duo processors?
Duo processors are nice.

I'd recommend my model (Dell Inspiron E1705), but it's been discontinued. Got it for $600 off. Dells are good quality machines from my experience. Certainly better than the Gateways and Vaios that I've tried.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Shadrok on July 18, 2007, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: BillBuckner on July 18, 2007, 09:48:35 PM

Duo processors are nice.

I'd recommend my model (Dell Inspiron E1705), but it's been discontinued. Got it for $600 off. Dells are good quality machines from my experience. Certainly better than the Gateways and Vaios that I've tried.

But don't they have issues with heat?  :confused

One thing I liked about their online shop is you can still get a laptop with XP.
Before starting this thread I was looking at  The Dell Vostro 1000 Notebook (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/vostronb_1000?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~tab=bundlestab), now I don't know. :confused
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Reese Tora on July 18, 2007, 10:32:35 PM
Quote from: Shadrok on July 18, 2007, 09:43:22 PMShould I get a 9 cell or a 6 cell battery and what about duo processors?

abttery size is all about where and how you paln to use the laptop.  Figure that, off the shelf, a 4 cell is good for 2-4 hours, and a 6 cell is good for an additional 1-2 hours.  If you plan on using the laptop plugged in, the extra life is a waste of money.

As for dual processors, they are becoming more or less standard at this point.  Certainly, any mid-high end laptop, such as you would want for graphics, will most likely have a core duo or 64x2.

IIRC, the intel mobile chip series with the 65 nm technology runs cooler.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Fuyudenki on July 18, 2007, 10:38:17 PM
Yes, Intel's mobile chips were designed with low power consumption and thermal output as top priority.  A friend of mine has a Toshiba laptop running the Centrino chipset which is about 3 years old.  It's a bit dated, now, but it still holds enough juice to dual-task note taking and ROM-playing in two classes, unplugged.

When he first got it, he inadvertantly damaged my grades in Physics class by playing Terranigma for the SNES interleaved with taking actual class notes.  Terranigma is a good game.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Ryudo Lee on July 19, 2007, 10:19:56 AM
When I was still working at the law firm I used to work at, they were purchasing HP laptops with both internal and external batteries, which gave them a total of 8 hours of battery life.  I made sure to instruct them on how to get the most life out of the batteries, because as most people know, attorneys are educated idiots when it comes to computers.  And as Shadrok said, if you're going to leave it plugged in, then battery life is a moot issue.  But if you are going to take it places on a regular basis, get an external battery.  It's a worthwhile investment for the extra hours of battery life.

I have an old Toshiba Sattelite that I've left plugged in for almost it's entire life so the battery has completely lost it's ability to hold a charge.  It doesn't bother me as much since I don't really take it anywhere.  It was a stopgap between old and new computers.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Azlan on July 19, 2007, 12:12:36 PM
Quote from: Ryudo Lee on July 19, 2007, 10:19:56 AM

I have an old Toshiba Sattelite that I've left plugged in for almost it's entire life so the battery has completely lost it's ability to hold a charge.  It doesn't bother me as much since I don't really take it anywhere.  It was a stopgap between old and new computers.

I have a really old one on a shelf with an old AMD K6 233 CPU.  After a while I noticed the battery did not hold a charge anymore and I had kept it plugged in for its entire life... it still is at that.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Shadrok on July 19, 2007, 11:29:18 PM
I think I'll go with a 4 or 6 cell battery and duo cores
Now to pick a brand.




Dell offers XP on theirs with no difference in price to Vista.

Gateway though charges $188 to change it from Vista to XP.

Acer has two on their site but from the looks of it I think they're sold out.

Toshiba has some with XP

HP (Compaq?) has some with XP




The ones I'm looking at are

The Dell Vostro 1000 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/vostronb_1000?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~tab=bundlestab) starting price $449

The Toshiba Tecra (http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/pdet.to?seg=HHO&poid=359124) starting price $1,199.00

The Compaq Presario V6000TX (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&series_name=V6000TX_series&tab_switch=true&a1=Usage&v1=Everyday+computing&tab=specs) starting price $718.99
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Ryudo Lee on July 20, 2007, 03:40:50 PM
I'd recommend the Compaq.  HP is surprisingly good at laptops.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: superluser on July 20, 2007, 03:48:47 PM
NOOOOO!  Not HP!  They destroyed DEC!  Take their calculators, but please, not their computers.

Toshiba is very good (but it is the most expensive), so I don't know what to tell you.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Ryudo Lee on July 20, 2007, 04:01:27 PM
Even back in the day when Compaq was it's own company, they made good laptops, and I think that HP is continuing that with their current line of Compaq laptops.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: superluser on July 20, 2007, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: Ryudo Lee on July 20, 2007, 04:01:27 PMEven back in the day when Compaq was it's own company, they made good laptops

Well, Compaq did invent the x86 portable.  Joining with HP could only reduce their quality.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Shadrok on July 20, 2007, 07:56:04 PM
Quote from: superluser on July 20, 2007, 04:14:40 PM
Well, Compaq did invent the x86 portable.  Joining with HP could only reduce their quality.

I was talking with a friend about the Compaq and he was saying that they were now low end HPs.

I'm leaning towards the Toshiba Tecra though.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Tapewolf on July 21, 2007, 07:56:04 AM
I'm using a Toshiba Portege 4000, which according to Google means it's about six years old and still going strong, apart from the battery.  If the Tecra is as well built, you'll have no problems.
Something like the Portege would be good for Brun too - more than he needs, in fact.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Azlan on July 23, 2007, 01:48:21 PM
I recommend the Compaq.  Mine is slim, functional and reasonably decent looking.  Its not tremendously heavy, but its not super light either.  If I pop open the case, I'll let you know how the guts are thrown together.  I have to do a walk through for our laptop repair techs, so I might submit one of my Compaqs for review.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: mini-lion on July 23, 2007, 02:18:07 PM
http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/compaq_hp-tablet_tc4400_rh570et-tablet_pc-2-t2.htm (http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/compaq_hp-tablet_tc4400_rh570et-tablet_pc-2-t2.htm)

tablet laptops for the artist without a pencil, or the architect on location

Compaq Presario V6000TX series i think would best suffice and be future proof for say 7months,  Tecra A8-S8513 series seems like overkill. I currently own a hp laptop which is a pavillion dual core, gig of ram and runs very nice when i am writing up notes.

Quoteto work on art
i would suggest looking into a screen with something a bit more to it, mines got something like ultra bright which makes the screen look much nice when working on and makes colours more crisp.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Fuyudenki on July 24, 2007, 01:19:45 AM
I actually just did some tech maintenance on a couple of Compaqs.  One Presario, one laptop.  I'm really, really impressed with the "Support" area of the HP website, had all the files the specific models need that didn't come pre-loaded on Windows XP, even for the old Evo N610c that I've got sitting next to my desk, and need to take back to the pawn shop I'm repairing it for.

Easiest $70 I ever made.  Rough calculations, I think I averaged to something like $30-40 per hour today.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Brunhidden on July 24, 2007, 01:35:53 AM
I now have the urge to get my old typewriter, complete in its carrying case, find the first person using a laptop in town, and plunk down next to him to start hammering out some text.

QuoteBeat a man with the strength of you argument, not with the strength of your arm.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Tapewolf on July 24, 2007, 04:22:48 AM
Quote from: Brunhidden da Muse on July 24, 2007, 01:35:53 AM
I now have the urge to get my old typewriter, complete in its carrying case, find the first person using a laptop in town, and plunk down next to him to start hammering out some text.
Awesome.  Maybe I should get one for my collection of arcana... come to that, I wonder what happened to the one my parents had?  It got kind of retired after they took up wordprocessing in the 80s.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Brunhidden on July 24, 2007, 11:21:09 AM
It hearkens back to the days when typing was a valuable skill, you needed to hit the keys hard, get it right the first time, and still go fast enough to compare to a modern typist.

the biggest upside is the musical cachophy they produce as you happily type, the biggest downside is trying to figure out the typewriter ribbon when it dries up.

undo, delete, and spell check are for rubes.

QuoteOne of the great mistakes that can be made by a man of my age is to get involved in athletic competition with children--unless, of course, they are under six. And even then, stay away from hide-and-seek.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Shadrok on August 01, 2007, 07:01:45 PM
I had ordered the Toshiba on the 28th and they gave me an ETA of Aug 14th. Well long story short, it came today.  :mowhappy

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i100/shadrok1/other/L1.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i100/shadrok1/other/L2.jpg)

Also the screen color looks to be good with only a slight difference in color (but I think a lot of it has to do with it being a flat screen) .



In case anyone wonders what the difference is like, compare #c9a588 to #c5a57f
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Fuyudenki on August 01, 2007, 10:38:04 PM
Try recalibrating the color on your monitor.  here (http://epaperpress.com/monitorcal/) is a good website for adjusting your brightness and contrast, it's surprising what a difference it can make.
Title: Re: Laptop Question
Post by: Shadrok on August 06, 2007, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Raist on August 01, 2007, 10:38:04 PM
Try recalibrating the color on your monitor.  here (http://epaperpress.com/monitorcal/) is a good website for adjusting your brightness and contrast, it's surprising what a difference it can make.

It's also surprising what a difference tilting the screen a little can do  :animesweat

Cause that's what was causing most of the color difference. I think I have it set now.