The Clockwork Mansion

I can't stop pronouncing it QB.

Cubi is just the end form of both succubi and inccubi, which are definitely pronounced with a hard "I" at the end.

Pronouncing it Cubie, as in Cupi Doll or the abbreviation for Quarterback, is just way more fun.  Just a thought.

and also make you look stupid to anyone who can figure out what the hell you're saying, but what do I know...

I'm on your side, Masked. Here's how I see it work;
If a pluralized word ends in an 'i', it's pronouced 'aye', (succubi, incubi)
If the singular word ends with an 'i', it's prnounced with an 'Eee' sound instead (dijinni, efreeti, janni)

Since the word 'cubi' is usedf as both singluar and plural, it could legitimately gow both ways at once. I for one, am in favor of the cue-bee pronunciation. Mainly because, for some reason, 'cue-bye' just doesn't sound right to me.

No-one ever says "succubee"  >:3

Quote from: Tapewolf on July 13, 2007, 05:59:24 PM
No-one ever says "succubee"  >:3

Who are you talking to? No one's said that.

Someone's going to draw a succubus bee now, aren't they?

  *Ahem*

Succubus. S-E-X-Y.

  *Cheers*

Yay yay yay! Did I win the succubus bee? O_o?

...Again, I don't know if I should cheer you as well, or smite you to hell. (hey, a rhyme!)
Right now, I'm currently leaning toward 'cheering'. ;)

  O_o? Im just trying to be funny. If anyone finds me annoying just tell me and I'll shut up and go to another topic lol. I dont want to start any shit

No, no, you are being funny, it's just that the outwardness and audacity, especially from a newbie, have left me stunned. :B
Don't take that a bad way. It's not too often we see a newbie with your boldness.

Quote from: techmaster-glitch on July 13, 2007, 07:20:26 PM
No, no, you are being funny, it's just that the outwardness and audacity, especially from a newbie, have left me stunned. :B

(appears in a Jedi robe)

The force is strong in this one.

I like this guy! He even spelled "Abel" right! (I think that particular group of letters can spell a whole lotta words...)

  Nah, im not bold mate. It's just that im a layed back person and Im not afraid to get in trouble. Don't like it, and I avoid it cuz I usually end up hurting other people, but Im afraid of it.

*Yawns*

  You like me O_o? Yay I gotsa new friend ^_^

Im sure most of you have to rember..Cubi are everywhere...And anyone..Muwhahahahahaha  :mwaha

Everywhere? Anyone? possibly true, but they're a 'top predator' (i know of several above them, but thats another story) so their numbers must be low enough to permit free feeding without decimating the food supply.

lets say between one in a thousand and one in ten thousand may be a cubi, thus your chances of inadvertently offending one by using 'cubi' incorrectly in a casual conversation are minute.

the scenario also brings to mind those old daytime 'talkshows' where unwitting couples come up to hear their spouse is really the opposite gender. talking smack about cubi (yes, i said 'smack', how urban of me (http://www.thestylemachine.com/smileys/roto.gif) ) to your significant other may yield a set of wings and tentacles you had not known about before... probably a lot more shocking then finding the absence or presence of a hotdog, and a lot less likely you would have found out any other way.

QuoteIt is easier to live through someone else than to become complete yourself

Quote from: Tapewolf on July 13, 2007, 05:59:24 PM
No-one ever says "succubee"  >:3

So the correct way to refer to a single Succubus or Incubus without specifying gender would be "Cubus".

"Cubie" sounds freakin adorible, though.

Quote from: MaskedRetriever on July 13, 2007, 10:55:02 PM
So the correct way to refer to a single Succubus or Incubus without specifying gender would be "Cubus".

Um, no, it is 'cubi''. You really aren't helping our case with a comment like that, Retriever. :B

Quote from: Brunhidden da Muse on July 13, 2007, 10:21:15 PM
the scenario also brings to mind those old daytime 'talkshows' where unwitting couples come up to hear their spouse is really the opposite gender. talking smack about cubi (yes, i said 'smack', how urban of me (http://www.thestylemachine.com/smileys/roto.gif) ) to your significant other may yield a set of wings and tentacles you had not known about before... probably a lot more shocking then finding the absence or presence of a hotdog, and a lot less likely you would have found out any other way.

Realizing I have no experience with the matter, how dim does one have to be to fail to notice the undue lack or presence of said hotdog in less than a weeks' time?  If I'm getting married, the world can wait for me to spend some quality time with my new wife.  I don't care what problems the world is facing, she's MY WIFE, and I'm going to spend some quality time with her!

In today's society, I suspect the first hour of the first date is when most people would be forced to reveal their true sex(since "gender" is a psychological term)...

Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on July 13, 2007, 06:09:30 PM
Someone's going to draw a succubus bee now, aren't they?

Ohh Zina's Ichabod would do very nicely for that... I can just picture litle bee headwings too

Getting Latin-nerdy here, the plural of "sucubus" isn't  sucubi.

The plural of "sucubus" is "sucubae".

Always glad to add to the confusion.

But we're not speaking latin. We're speaking english. Which takes latin words (or words from any other language for that matter, but especially latin), butchers them, then gives them the offical label of an 'english' word.


:U :U :U Confusion avoided! :U :U :U

Quote from: Rafe on July 14, 2007, 12:51:00 AM
Getting Latin-nerdy here, the plural of "sucubus" isn't  sucubi.

The plural of "sucubus" is "sucubae".

Always glad to add to the confusion.

But then the singular should be succuba. -us is a masculine ending anyway.

All in all...Its a fond of a lovely name that just rolls it off your tounge

Quote from: techmaster-glitch on July 14, 2007, 12:52:48 AM
We're speaking english. Which takes latin words (or words from any other language for that matter, but especially latin), butchers them, then gives them the offical label of an 'english' word.

<nod> I prefer this quotation:

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language [...] It not only borrows words from other languages; it has on occasion chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary."   
-- James Nicoll

;)

Spotted  Kitty reminded me of that Nicoll quote.  The full version is

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
-- James D. Nicoll

That quote's getting to be famous. It was originally posted by him on the rec.arts.sf-lovers newsgroup.  At Anthrocon, they were selling T-shirts emblazoned with it (and a very nice, violent mugging illustration).  I should have bought one.

Which booth was selling them? I didn't see any like that. :<

It was in the way back Reese

Quote from: Rafe on July 14, 2007, 12:51:00 AMThe plural of "sucubus" is "sucubae".

As modelincard hinted, this isn't correct.

-ae (as plural) is only found in the first declension, where it indicates the nom. plural of any first declension noun, masculine or feminine.  (first declension nouns are typically feminine, but some are masculine)

-us (as singular) can be found in three declensions: the second, the third, or the fourth.  It is almost always indicative of the second declension, where it exclusively refers to masculine nouns.  The nom. plural of any second declension masculine is -i.  In the third declension, a -us ending is rare, and the nom. plural would be -es for masculine and -(i)a for neuter.  In the fourth declension, the nom. plural would be -us if the singular were -us.

That may be boring, but here's something that should be a bit more interesting.  Since succubus is indeed second declension, it means that the people who were talking about it saw succubi as masculine, despite being outwardly female--probably since they were demons.

Thanks Superluser, I like your explaination the best. 
Now I know who to give all future Latin grammar questions to.

So, I, like, looked it up on Wikipedia and Dictionary.com
Succubus is Middle English derived from the Late Latin succuba, meaning strumpet or paramour (oh those fancy words... see slut, whore, prostitute)

MYSTERY SOLVED... well, unless somebody wants to look it up in the OED or something.

Cube-eye here. Which is an equally intruiging pronounciation if you think about it. It'd be pointy in your skill, that's for sure.

Thanks for the more accurate quote, Rafe. I did have it before, but I lost one of my .sig quote files a while back: the one with that Nicoll quote, of course.   :rolleyes  I found that version after a quick Google or two.

<reads a few more replies> Wow, that's more than I ever thought I remembered about Latin grammar. I only took it for a couple of years at school, then dropped it as soon as it wasn't a compulsory subject. That complicated declension scheme makes me wonder how the more educated Romans ever managed to say anything at all...   ;)

Hasn't anyone wondered if it could have been, say, Mesopotamian or Sumerian in origin? Many of these words were used by older cultures long before the item in question was ever actually around, and the older word stuck for some reason.

QuoteFor a true writer each book should be a new beginning where he tries again for something that is beyond attainment. He should always try for something that has never been done or that others have tried and failed. Then sometimes, with great luck, he will succeed.

Its gonna be a hell of pain for everyone

Quote from: Brunhidden da Muse on July 15, 2007, 12:15:28 AMHasn't anyone wondered if it could have been, say, Mesopotamian or Sumerian in origin? Many of these words were used by older cultures long before the item in question was ever actually around, and the older word stuck for some reason.

Not spelt like that.  Succubus shows very telltale signs of being developed in or after Latin.  Cubo means ``I lie (down),'' and sub is a preposition which means `below.'  Adding prepositions to verbs in Latin will usually follow a very particular formula.  Imagine calling someone a subcubus.  It doesn't flow well.  So sub- plus a verb that begins with a c will result in the new verb beginning with succ- (e.g. the Latin roots of succumb, succour).

As such, the word looks as Latin as Caesar Augustus wearing laurel wreaths.

That doesn't rule out the possibility that the idea came from other languages, or that the component parts (sub-, in-, cubo) came from other languages.  Indeed, it's quite likely that they came from some other language.  I don't know Sumerian or any Mesopotamian languages, so I don't know how likely it is that it came from either of them.

Kasarn mentioned that dictionary.com said it came from Middle English and asked what the OED said about it.  The OED says that succubus came from medieval Latin.  Depending on when and where the word first came into usage, it could be very difficult to determine whether it's medieval Latin or Middle English or Middle English meant to look like Latin.  Everyone, however, seems to agree that incubus is late Latin.

I dunno, I've always (mentally) pronounced it coo-bee when it's spelt 'cubi'

That or cyoo-bee seems to me to be the best way to pronounce it.

Quote from: superluser on July 15, 2007, 03:11:46 AM
Not spelt like that.  Succubus shows very telltale signs of being developed in or after Latin.  Cubo means ``I lie (down),'' and sub is a preposition which means `below.'  Adding prepositions to verbs in Latin will usually follow a very particular formula.  Imagine calling someone a subcubus.  It doesn't flow well.  So sub- plus a verb that begins with a c will result in the new verb beginning with succ- (e.g. the Latin roots of succumb, succour).

language always irks me- a great many of our words are just foreign language names for things. a large and educated sounding word may translate from the old tounge into something along the lines of 'egg beater' or 'chair fire' or some other combination of unrelated words. Ever imagine translating a sentence including all the words that came from other languages? a great many fancy words from Latin or French or whatnot will sound really stupid.

another language experiment with similar end results- write down a few sentences spoken by one of those people who swear constantly and in poor context, then translate it into proper english. keep in mind that 'f---' translates into 'fornicate' and 'fag/(I am not smart enough to use polite words)' translates into 'bundle of sticks' and 'b----' translates into 'female dog'. read the translated sentences aloud, and try not to laugh.

QuoteIn anger we should refrain both from speech and action.

Many years ago, my father was involved with an engineering society that had raised the idea of using the word ingenieur instead of engineer.  He said that it sounded good in that it emphasized ingenuity.  When I pointed out that it was bascially just the French and German spelling of engineer, his attitude changed immediately and it no longer  seemed so attractive.

Another interesting exercise would be to see what some names would sound you like if you actually translated them into modern English.  A lot of them would sound like the native American names that people make phone of.  For example, what does Eagle Ruler Blackened Mountain bring to mind.  Of course, I don't know if you would want to make fun of Arnold Schwarzenegger's name.

By the way, I think the proper pronunciation for cubi is whatever Amber says it is.  It's her world, we just get to read it.

My dad has always wanted to design English.  Not redesign, it was never designed in the first place. :mowwink

Quote from: AndersW on July 15, 2007, 09:50:32 PM
My dad has always wanted to design English.  Not redesign, it was never designed in the first place. :mowwink

i've been always taught that modern english is quite often got a fair amount of other languages in it, differing from region to region.
Thus the differing variants on the english language, from UK, European, India, Americas, Australia, etc.

it quite often assimilates various parts of other languages, french, spanish, hebrew (mostly yiddish i think) italian, greek, gaelic, welsh, well, you get the idea.

Quote from: Turnsky on July 16, 2007, 07:12:00 AM
it quite often assimilates various parts of other languages, french, spanish, hebrew (mostly yiddish i think) italian, greek, gaelic, welsh, well, you get the idea.

Offhand I'm not aware of any Welsh words that have been assimilated into English, but the reverse is all-too common.  This is particularly the case in North Wales, where they seem to have been trying to create their own language by taking English words and making them sound more Welsh because they have lost the original words - in many ways it can be considered an undead language.  Traditional Welsh supposedly becomes more prevalent as you head west.

Quote from: Tapewolf on July 16, 2007, 07:20:00 AM

Quote from: Turnsky on July 16, 2007, 07:12:00 AM
it quite often assimilates various parts of other languages, french, spanish, hebrew (mostly yiddish i think) italian, greek, gaelic, welsh, well, you get the idea.

Offhand I'm not aware of any Welsh words that have been assimilated into English, but the reverse is all-too common.  This is particularly the case in North Wales, where they seem to have been trying to create their own language by taking English words and making them sound more Welsh because they have lost the original words - in many ways it can be considered an undead language.  Traditional Welsh supposedly becomes more prevalent as you head west.

prolly..
mind you, that was the way the english was back in the day, their empire was spread so far, that if you couldn't speak english (or some semblance of it) you were pretty well screwed in the eyes of the empire.
while it's true that aussies spoke english to begin with, we've developed our own vernacular over the years. Steve Irwin and Paul "Croc Dundee" Hogan were reasonable examples of common australian speech, although that varies largely from place to place, like anywhere else.. i'm fairly sure the UK in general has a fair amount of differing examples.. .

and to me, there's two types of "scottish" accent, Sean Connery bond-speak, and "mouth full of mashed spuds" speak. :P

*grumble mutter curse*

The plural of fungus is fungi.
The plural of cactus is cacti.
The plural of incubus is incubi, as is succubus is succubi.
In-kyu-by
Suc-kyu-by.

THE BLOODY FRIGGIN' END.

You forget that 'cubi' is also used as SINGLULAR. :U :U :U :U :U :U
ZOMG! It's not the end!

It's a made up word. THE END. *shoots techmaster*

Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on July 18, 2007, 12:06:06 AM
It's a made up word. THE END. *shoots techmaster*

And Amber made it up.  As such, until she definitively says how it's pronounced, there is no right or wrong way to say it.  The begining?

Thank you, Reese.

"Cubi" may be used as a singular term.
And it's not a made-up word, it's just a shorter version that is not gender-specific taken from the original words.

I swear at this time of night, I thought you said Amber made up the whole succubus/incubus thing. If that happened, I'd have to whip out my encyclopedia of mythology and whap you guys upside the head with it.

As an off the wall question, how would it be pronounced if you had a french accent?  :P

Maybe Quree Bay, as Q and B (the way I pronounce it, QB) in french is pronounced that way.

Sorry, you can ignore this post now.

Quote
I swear at this time of night, I thought you said Amber made up the whole succubus/incubus thing.

The WORD 'Cubi' was made up by Amber. No one has suggested that she made up the concepts of succubus/incubus as well, though I'm sure ther are a few devoted ones here who would like to credit her with that.

I thought the forum people made it up and then Amber started using it.

Ho, if that's the case, then there definately is no right or wrong way to say it!

But there is. It still came from real words with real pronunciation. Stop being an asshole already. I'm arguing with sense, you're just arguing to piss me off.

I was agreeing with you. Unless you were not suggesting that there is no right or wrong way to say it, in which case you weren't very clear, and I misinterpreted.

There isn't not any right or wrong way to say it. "Q-bye" is the only way to say it, and any other way had better be because of someone's accent. Both words use that form. The sound will be the same. The MEANING of the word and whether it's both singular and plural WILL NOT change the pronunciation, and this whole thread needs to be closed for the general lack of sense going on in the entire thing.

Quote from: Mashi on July 17, 2007, 09:22:50 PM
*grumble mutter curse*

The plural of fungus is fungi.
The plural of cactus is cacti.

Except that those are pronounced 'fun-gee' and 'kak-tie'. So you could go either way. And ky00-bee is the best because it's cutest. QED

Well said, Terrycloth.

Quote from: terrycloth on July 18, 2007, 07:22:20 PM

Quote from: Mashi on July 17, 2007, 09:22:50 PM
The plural of fungus is fungi.
The plural of cactus is cacti.

Except that those are pronounced 'fun-gee' and 'kak-tie'.

According to the OED is pronounced 'fun-guy'.

Quote from: Tapewolf on July 18, 2007, 07:43:24 PM

Quote from: terrycloth on July 18, 2007, 07:22:20 PM

Quote from: Mashi on July 17, 2007, 09:22:50 PM
The plural of fungus is fungi.
The plural of cactus is cacti.

Except that those are pronounced 'fun-gee' and 'kak-tie'.

According to the OED is pronounced 'fun-guy'.

*wiggles with a mushroom cap on*

Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on July 18, 2007, 07:20:40 PM
There isn't not any right or wrong way to say it. "Q-bye" is the only way to say it, and any other way had better be because of someone's accent. Both words use that form. The sound will be the same. The MEANING of the word and whether it's both singular and plural WILL NOT change the pronunciation, and this whole thread needs to be closed for the general lack of sense going on in the entire thing.

While the word 'cubi' is based on the real words incubus and succubus, the actual word is made up, and specifically used only in the DMFA community.  As such, the proper way to pronounce the word would be based on the concensus of said community.  While the word is derived from real words, and no one disagrees on that point, there is no rule in the english language that says that a derived word needs to take all pronunciation cues from the word it was derived from.

That said, I believe that, should we really want to resolve this debate, we should start a poll and ask the community that this word belongs to how they pronounce it.

Or just let bygones be bygones and let everyone say it how they want to say it.

Why dose it even matter How its spoken?

It is likely PRINTED.. more often then it is said.. so as long as well all spell it Cubi.. then we all know what it means and how it is said is moot.. IMHO...

Quote from: Aurawyn on July 19, 2007, 01:10:39 AM
Why dose it even matter How its spoken?

You didn't have to rerecord every single line where Merlitz says 'Aaryanna' incorrectly  >:3

In Gulliver's Travels, the people of Lilliput fought a war over whether eggs should be eaten with the little side up or the big side up (little-endians versus big-endians).  At least we're not at war over how to pronounce cubi.  (As flame wars go, this one has a very cool flame.)

There was an old sold that went "You  say tomato (mat pronounced as mate), I say tomato (mat pronounced like first syllable of matress)"  I always iked the line that came a little later.  "Let's call the whole thing off."

As far as the recordings go, the logical thing would be to have Amber produce a short audio file of how she feels the names should be pronounced.

Quote from: Naldru on July 19, 2007, 08:32:04 AM
As far as the recordings go, the logical thing would be to have Amber produce a short audio file of how she feels the names should be pronounced.

Nah, she's gone for a hands-off approach, it being unofficial and all.  What we generally do is standardise one something.  I'm pretty sure we've got Warp-Aci wrong, but as long as everyone says the same thing it doesn't really matter.

Except when Aaryanna herself comes along and says "Um, it should be pronounced Airy-anna..."

Quote from: Tapewolf on July 19, 2007, 08:36:31 AM

Quote from: Naldru on July 19, 2007, 08:32:04 AM
As far as the recordings go, the logical thing would be to have Amber produce a short audio file of how she feels the names should be pronounced.

Except when Aaryanna herself comes along and says "Um, it should be pronounced Airy-anna..."

I assume that you are referring to Furcadia Aaryanna as opposed to DMFA Aaryanna.  If DMFA Aaryanna is talking to you, we have a different problem.

As I understand it then

For DMFA characters based on Furcadia characters, the owner of the Furcadia character is the authoritative source

For other terms, the group running the DMFA radio show is the authoritative source with respect to usage on the recordings.

If you want consistency on the recordings, the best thing would appear to be a web site somewhere with sound bites of the various names and terms.

Quote from: Naldru on July 19, 2007, 08:32:04 AM...I say tomato (mat pronounced like first syllable of matress)"...

Never heard it pronounced like that, before.  I guess it depends on how you pronounce 'mattress,' though.

Quote from: Tapewolf on July 19, 2007, 08:36:31 AMI'm pretty sure we've got Warp-Aci wrong, but as long as everyone says the same thing it doesn't really matter.

How are you pronouncing it?  I always thought it would be pronounced 'atch-ee,' which, now that I look at it, doesn't really make any sense. :/

Quote from: Tapewolf on July 19, 2007, 08:36:31 AMExcept when Aaryanna herself comes along and says "Um, it should be pronounced Airy-anna..."

Wewt, I got it right. :>

Quote from: techmaster-glitch on July 18, 2007, 10:41:44 PM
Or just let bygones be bygones and let everyone say it how they want to say it.

Doesn't that violate every tenet of fandom?  >:3

Quote from: xHaZxMaTx on July 19, 2007, 09:04:08 AM
How are you pronouncing it?  I always thought it would be pronounced 'atch-ee,' which, now that I look at it, doesn't really make any sense. :/

I don't know how everyone else pronounces it, but I say it as Ay-see.
And I'm not going to get into an argument with ANYONE over this!
You say what you want and I'll say what I want!


"Ha-loooooooooooo! This fog is thick as peanut butter!"
"You mean pea soup."
"You eat what you like and I'll eat what I like!"

Quote from: Tapewolf on July 19, 2007, 08:26:47 AM

Quote from: Aurawyn on July 19, 2007, 01:10:39 AM
Why dose it even matter How its spoken?

You didn't have to rerecord every single line where Merlitz says 'Aaryanna' incorrectly  >:3

Haha.. I forgot about the radio series project..  :mowdizzy

...Honestly, I pronounce it Kyoo-Bee as well...

I know it should be pronounced Kyoo-Bye, but eh.

Kyoo-Bee sounds better, anyways.  Flows off the tongue better, at least.

Toh-May-Toe, Toh-Mah-Toe.

Ah-Loo-Mihn-Um, Al-Oo-Min-Ee-Um.

(And yes, I know the British pronunciation of Aluminum makes no sense.  Which is exactly why it pertains to this discussion)

It's actually spelled different (aluminium), so it does make sense.

Quote from: Zachski on July 19, 2007, 12:25:09 PM
Flows off the tongue better, at least.

That is exactly what I think!

And you call me Zedd or Zedtan...But dont call me Dotty or you'll DIE!!

Quote from: Zedd on July 19, 2007, 12:42:18 PM
And you call me Zedd or Zedtan...But dont call me Dotty or you'll DIE!!

*puts bologna in Zedd's slacks*

Gooood-night, everybody. >:3

Quote from: Zedd on July 19, 2007, 12:42:18 PM
And you call me Zedd or Zedtan...But dont call me Dotty or you'll DIE!!

You'll what? Red blob? What's that supposed to mean?

Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 19, 2007, 04:18:43 PM

Quote from: Zedd on July 19, 2007, 12:42:18 PM
And you call me Zedd or Zedtan...But dont call me Dotty or you'll DIE!!

You'll what? Red blob? What's that supposed to mean?

If you seen animanics...You'll know the ref

Quote from: xHaZxMaTx on July 19, 2007, 12:28:10 PM
It's actually spelled different (aluminium), so it does make sense.

The suffix ium is used to indicate an element: barium, chromium, uranium, plutonium, germanium, zirconium, lithium, etc.

Alumina is a mineral from which the metal is extracted, so they called the element aluminium (the element related to alumina).  In terms of the Latin roots, the British spelling and pronunciation is correct, with the American spelling and pronunciation being a simplifying corruption.

A few web references that I saw indicated that the dictionary writers in England were more concerned with keeping the suffixes and prefixes intact, while the dictionary writers in America didn't see a problem with simplifying the word if it was hard to spell.

It's not 'alumina', though, it's 'alum'. So, the classical word for it would be 'alumium'. The discoverer decided to call it 'aluminum' because he thought it sounded better.

Then the british were all 'but metals have to end in 'ium'!' and changed it. But they didn't change it back, they just added another i.

At this rate, it'll eventually be 'aluminimuniuminum', which is how I already pronounce it anyway.

Which, of course, leads to the ludicrous  state of there being only one element with 6 syllables - but which Americans cannot identify, since there are several with 5, but none with six. In America.


The element in question is Praseodymium, or, as the Americans would have it, Praseodymum.

Quote from: Zachski on July 19, 2007, 12:25:09 PMAh-Loo-Mihn-Um, Al-Oo-Min-Ee-Um.

(And yes, I know the British pronunciation of Aluminum makes no sense.  Which is exactly why it pertains to this discussion)

My mother and I always jokingly refer to our tin foil as "al-ooh-mihn-ee-yum".

"Sam, you're in charge of the taco shells. Be sure to put enough aluminium down. You always go a little short."

...Actually, she never complains about how much I put down. That's what I do.

Quote from: terrycloth on July 19, 2007, 08:44:31 PMAt this rate, it'll eventually be 'aluminimuniuminum', which is how I already pronounce it anyway.

Haha! Reminds me of my made-up word "affilialfifialfied" which is really just a bastardized version of "affiliated" which for some reason I had trouble pronouncing one day.

Quote from: Mashi on July 20, 2007, 01:06:53 PM
My mother and I always jokingly refer to our tin foil as "al-ooh-mihn-ee-yum".

"Sam, you're in charge of the taco shells. Be sure to put enough aluminium down. You always go a little short."

Actually, when people purchase tin foil, it's usually made of aluminum.  (Tin cans are actually steel with a lining of tin.  And I suspect that tin snips are mainly used to cut metals other than tin.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/23/AR2006052300366.html

And by the way, the mineral in aluminum ore that is converted to aluminum is alumina.
www.world-aluminium.org/production/basics.html

I suppose that you could make metallic aluminum from alum, but I don't know if anybody's doing it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alum

Quote from: Naldru on July 20, 2007, 05:48:50 PMActually, when people purchase tin foil, it's usually made of aluminum.

It better not be.  I don't think I've ever seen tin foil in my supermarket.  Maybe a long time ago, but now it's always labelled aluminum foil.

Quote from: Mashi on July 20, 2007, 01:06:53 PM

Quote from: Zachski on July 19, 2007, 12:25:09 PMAh-Loo-Mihn-Um, Al-Oo-Min-Ee-Um.

(And yes, I know the British pronunciation of Aluminum makes no sense.  Which is exactly why it pertains to this discussion)

My mother and I always jokingly refer to our tin foil as "al-ooh-mihn-ee-yum".

Just reminded me of this.

@Naldru- Interesting, I thought "tin" cans were also made of aluminum now. And I use tinsnips to cut those nasty plastic blister packages. (I think that's it; it's the ones with the double layer adhered band going all-the-way around.)

Quote from: modelincard on July 20, 2007, 06:42:13 PM
@Naldru- Interesting, I thought "tin" cans were also made of aluminum now. And I use tinsnips to cut those nasty plastic blister packages. (I think that's it; it's the ones with the double layer adhered band going all-the-way around.)

I believe that some people refer to aluminum cans as tin cans.  But to me, tin cans are the ones with rhe raised lip at both ends that you can open with a can opener and have a seam down the side and a printed paper label.  You start with three flat sheets of metal that are bent and crimped into shape.  The aluminum cans, which make up almost all of the beverage cans have the bottom and side drawn from a single piece of metal with the top being a separate piece of metal that is crimped into place.

I loked it up in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), and it says that tin cans is used for both tinplate (steel plated with tin) and aluminum cans.  However, Merriam Webster online (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary) just mentions tinplate although it sometimes it is used more broadly to cover cans in general.  In addition OED says it refers to food containers while Merriam-Websters doesn't mention any restrictions on what the can can contain.  Just curious as to whether you are from a Commonwealth country. 

I guess this is another case where the British can complain that the Americans don't speak English.

What annoys me about the whole tin can thing is the way everyone seems to want to make the tins with both ends precisely the same size.

The reason it annoys me is finding cans that have that particularly morphology in New Zealand is a struggle - over there, they've been making them with the bottom end -outside- diameter smaller than the top end -inside- diameter. Which means that they stack neatly on top of each other, and don't fall off. At least, not as easily.

This is more of an issue when you have ~30 odd 1/3rd height cans full of child-sized portions of pasta shapes (usually shaped by Bob, Thomas, etc) none of which stack.

If they'd stack, it'd be far easier to see how many you had, and you could stack them four or five high with no issues - rather than 2-3 and only then with difficulty...

But that's my pet niggle about cans. :-]

There are actually American standards for can sizes and these specify that the top and bottom diameters are the same.
http://www.cancentral.com/standard.cfm
It may well be that Australia and New Zealand have a different standard.

Quote from: Naldru on July 21, 2007, 12:58:46 AM
There are actually American standards for can sizes and these specify that the top and bottom diameters are the same.
http://www.cancentral.com/standard.cfm
It may well be that Australia and New Zealand have a different standard.

izzat so? 'cause more and more cans are turning up with a smaller bottom for ease of stacking in my local stores (SoCal)

Mainly I'm noticing this on canned vegies by DelMonte.(greenbeans and such)

Quote from: Reese Tora on July 21, 2007, 05:42:02 AM

Quote from: Naldru on July 21, 2007, 12:58:46 AM
There are actually American standards for can sizes and these specify that the top and bottom diameters are the same.
http://www.cancentral.com/standard.cfm
It may well be that Australia and New Zealand have a different standard.

izzat so? 'cause more and more cans are turning up with a smaller bottom for ease of stacking in my local stores (SoCal)

Mainly I'm noticing this on canned vegies by DelMonte.(greenbeans and such)

your average coke can has a 375ml capacity, i'm not terribly sure what that equates in imperial measurements, however.

What a wacky small world we live in..Not to mention is anyone really gonna judge the factor half the world is insane? If so..Stand up and appose now

I was looking up information on stackable cans.  There was something about cans where the top and bottom were crimped in different ways to achieve stackability.  As I understand it, the top is crimped over the side, but for the bottom, the side is bent inward so that it covers the bottom.  Is this what you are talking about?  The can would actually be the same diameter over the entire height, it's just the crimping technique that makes the bottom slightly smaller.  I never saw anything like this, but I can see how it could be done.

The plant making the cans would have to be heavily retooled.  Maybe Southern California has some can making plants based on this new design.

One of the notes also stated that regular can openers won't work well on the bottom.

Quote from: Naldru on July 21, 2007, 03:49:40 PMI was looking up information on stackable cans.  There was something about cans where the top and bottom were crimped in different ways to achieve stackability.  As I understand it, the top is crimped over the side, but for the bottom, the side is bent inward so that it covers the bottom.  Is this what you are talking about?  The can would actually be the same diameter over the entire height, it's just the crimping technique that makes the bottom slightly smaller.  I never saw anything like this, but I can see how it could be done.

Never seen a can of Campbell's soup (http://www.water-rockets.com/safety/SoupCan.jpg) before?

All the Cambell's soup cans I have seen have had the top and bottom pieces crimped in the same manner, with end piece being crimped over the side.  I'll take a look the next time I'm in the supermarket, but I haven't seen any cans where the bottom piece has the side metal bent so that it crimps over the end piece.

****

The following was added based on a later comment.

However, I'm talking about tin plated steel cans.

If the bottom piece is a solid piece of metal, then it is probably an aluminum can.  I don't think steel has enough ductility to be cold extruded into that kind of shape.

the bottom isn't crimped at all, it's a solid piece with a top crimped on.

How does a discussion of pronunciation transition to soup can shapes?

in a very futile attempt to connect the two all i can come up with is canned laughter, first used on shows like 'i love lucy' who only occasionally had live audiences and couldn't always get them to laugh on cue.

cans rarely meet vocabulary anywhere else...unless you count alphabet soup, but thats more written then oral.

QuoteThis canned laughter is getting stale, whats the expiration date?

Quote from: Brunhidden da Muse on July 22, 2007, 08:47:12 AM
in a very futile attempt to connect the two all i can come up with is canned laughter, first used on shows like 'i love lucy' who only occasionally had live audiences and couldn't always get them to laugh on cue.

cans rarely meet vocabulary anywhere else...unless you count alphabet soup, but thats more written then oral.

QuoteThis canned laughter is getting stale, whats the expiration date?

or the ol' can of whoopass.

We were discussing things that have different ways of being pronounced and alternate spellings
We went to aluminum versus aluminium
It went to tin foil, which is actually aluminum
Then it went to tin cans, which are either aluminum or tin-plated steel

You're right though.  It has gone rather far astray.  No matter how you say, it may be time to can this.

**** Edit was for correction of typo.

Quote from: Naldru on July 22, 2007, 10:08:04 AM
You're right though.  It has gone rather far astray.  No matter how you say, it may be time to can this.

Can we keep it open, anyway? ;-]

Okay, llearch, we bring out the can opener and the tale of the can can continue.

However, I wasn't meaning to restrict what others can do.  I think I may stop whipping up the furor.

Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on July 22, 2007, 07:34:04 AM
How does a discussion of pronunciation transition to soup can shapes?

With Science!

Of course, I'm not so bothered becasue the fora I hang out on elsewhere it's SOP for a thread to go off topic once the core of the original topic has been hashed over.

Quote from: Naldru on July 22, 2007, 10:20:41 AM
Okay, llearch, we bring out the can opener and the tale of the can can continue.

However, I wasn't meaning to restrict what others can do.  I think I may stop whipping up the furor.

I think you may have opened a can of worms there...