Now, I know this sort of thing can get controversial, so please show respect to each other... or you know, don't, and I'll grab popcorn. My question is, if you could focus on improving ONE issue in America right now, what would it be? Unlike most polls, I won't limit this to five options -I- think are important, I'll let you choose your own.
Me? Education.
I'm not sure it's possible to do something about it, but... there's a general impression, at least in my corner of the world (which isn't necessarily geographical, I might add) that the people in power are .. less than smart.
Note that that's not necessarily those in the government, either.
Now, the problem, as I perceive it, is that people are not thinking for themselves. How to get people to think... that's more difficult.
Of course, this problem isn't limited to the US of A. :-/
I agree with Richter here. A good education is at a premium nowadays.
The main problem, as I see it, is with the No Child Left Behind program. That program is hurting more people than it's helping. My brother-in-law is a victim of it. He was pushed along in school because of that program and now he has poor social skills (which I think is his fault entirely anyway), he can barely read, and can't do even the most basic algebra. He works at Hydril, moving pipes from train cars to a storage yard. The sad thing is, because of the state of his education, he won't be able to go any further than that.
QuoteNow, the problem, as I perceive it, is that people are not thinking for themselves. How to get people to think... that's more difficult.
Yeah, the best stab at it I could take was improving education. (shrug)
It's my opinion that we need to throw away the curve, stop letting point slips count as passable when it comes to minorities/women/token underpriveleged group, and instead spend the time to educate them more until they are on the same level. I think we should throw away the idea that someone should be out of school at "this age", glorify and reward academic achievements instead of sports and shows of style, and make an effort as a community at large to spend money on re-educating those that slipped out of the failed system and would like a chance to get back in.
Unfortunately people are on a "no one should fail because they didn't do it right" kick right now. This crap about No Child Left Behind and "everyone gets a trophy" is just that, crap. Postive reinforcement doesn't really work in the long run, especially when the child that has had nothing but positive reinforcement goes out into the real world.
Well, positive reinforcement works if the person giving the positive reinforcement doesn't throw it out there for no damn reason... by all means, if a struggling student gets an A.. give them that fucking trophy. Give them one every time they get an A for all I care. Just don't go giving them out for B's and C's as well and caribbean vacations for D's.
The problem is that people ARE giving out these awards and high grades to kids who don't deserve them. I agree with you that if you work for it and really earn it, then you deserve it. But the problem lies in the majority of kids who don't deserve it. Reinforcing them when they need to be slapped back down isn't helping the situation. And that is what is going on, they're getting the positive reinforcement that they don't deserve so they continue doing poorly because they think it's okay. Back when I was in grade school, they wouldn't have thought twice about holding a student back. Nowadays, that's taboo.
I got held back, in 10th grade. I deserved it. I was bored with school, not trying, and skipping. I took the GED at 17 and on one or two sections got scores higher than 90-95% of graduating high school seniors. Hardly surprising as I read the books, understood very simply, just didn't like the classroom bullshit.
So, do you think that, as far as the ineffective rewards system goes; teachers, government or both are in need of a rehaul?
Teachers not so much. I've met some pretty dedicated teachers during my school days, and most of them would agree that the whole system needs an overhaul. The good ones, I find, teach for the sake of teaching and actually really do care for the educational development of the children they're teaching. Personally, I had an amazing teacher back in grade school. I did really poorly in social studies, and the teacher took it upon himself to personally tutor me over the summer so that I wouldn't fail and be held back. I worked my butt off that summer. That's dedication. Most teachers, I find, do a damn good job because they love their job. It's unfortunate that they have to work within a broken system.
The governing bodies of education do need an overhaul. They need to realize that schools need more than adequate funding and the ability to freely tell parents that their kids weren't working hard enough and were failed without fear of being sued or otherwise being yelled at because they're not taking into account the feelings of the child, or are costing the school district money by keeping the child there for another year. If a student isn't working hard enough then they need to be held back, not pushed along because of some policy.
Leaving Australia alone.
Nah, just joking there. We love your big-budget movies and tv series too much and apparently we love your president too... but seriously, the free trade agreement is killing us here. :(
Quote from: RJ on May 21, 2007, 12:03:05 PM
Leaving Australia alone.
Nah, just joking there. We love your big-budget movies and tv series too much and apparently we love your president too... but seriously, the free trade agreement is killing us here. :(
That's ok. We have the joyous patriot act and that president that you guys seem to "love" so much. So we're all suffering in our own special ways.
I feel I must say that the USA's biggest problem is the Spanish. No, not Mexicans or other central or south-americans, the Spanish. From Spain. They were a melting pot of culture and DNA long before we were, and it's time for us to claim our position as the dominant mutt nation. I propose a seven-foot-tall fence along the entire eastern coastline. :giggle
Actually I think the fast that people are legitimately afraid of getting sued for anything possibly construed as harming someone else is one of this country's bigger problems. Too much worrying about covering your own bum and too much overly politically-correct behavior.
Actually, education was my first thought (I also didn't want to touch hot topics like Iraq). Unfortunately Americans have gotten the reputation of being ignorant. Apparently people aren't even taught about the neighboring counties like Canada and Mexico. Being Canadian myself, I've had to answer many ridiculous questions... :erk
Even knowledge of their own country seems to be weak as I've had to tell quite a few Americans that states like Montana, New Hampshire, ect... are actually a part of the states and not provinces of Canada or countries oversea.
I'm not trying to poke fun at anyone, but it's an issue that even people outside the states who have to interact with Americans have to deal with. :<
Quote from: James StarRunner on May 21, 2007, 12:19:35 PM
Actually, education was my first thought (I also didn't want to touch hot topics like Iraq). Unfortunately Americans have gotten the reputation of being ignorant. Apparently people aren't even taught about the neighboring counties like Canada and Mexico. Being Canadian myself, I've had to answer many ridiculous questions... :erk
Even knowledge of their own country seems to be weak as I've had to tell quite a few Americans that states like Montana, New Hampshire, ect... are actually a part of the states and not provinces of Canada or countries oversea.
I'm not trying to poke fun at anyone, but it's an issue that even people outside the states who have to interact with Americans have to deal with. :<
Oh, most definately. I've had people in my COLLEGE classes that had trouble reading a few paragraphs from "The Scarlet Letter". Now let me tell ya... there aren't exactly any hard or big words in that book...
Not enough funding goes to the school, people don't get smart, they're easier to control, and they may become the leader. I mean, look at Bush. What education does
he have? Getting kicked out of a college his daddy paid his way into. :B I think an Associates Degree should be required to be a Pres, and that more funding should go to pre-college schools since those are the years where a person learns the most from their world and it's much easier to teach them at that age.
FYI, I've also seen tons of peeps who have no idea where a state is in the US, that are legal US citizens. :rj
I think Carlos Mencia said it best... Dee dee dee! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h0z6vkcY10)
Regarding the education system:
I graduated HS about a year ago, and I live in one of the fastest growing counties in the entire country. I haven't found a solid job (anything outside the abysmal fast-food industry) in this entire year. Oddly enough, if I leave this county, I seem to be able to find work the very first time I go looking.
Now, this isn't a rant about my personal problems in any form, I know no one cares, and I don't really WANT anyone involved in my problems. But to me it almost seems like my diploma, dispite the fact that I graduated with heavy honors (I was the valedictorian), just isn't worth anything to these people. On top of all this, I realize that I was one of those kids who was in and out of all sorts of special education schools his entire life, and even then I RARELY showed my face in the class room, averaging about two or three days of attendance a school week.
Am I less intelligent for all of this? No. I could turn this into a full argument as to why I think a lot of things in the education system are useless and costing tax-dollars. What I'm really getting at here is that the education system doesn't build enough DISCIPLINE. What our schools teach our kids these days is that you don't get anything unless you break the rules.
Draw from this what you will.
They used to have the perfect way to build discipline in schools: yard-stick wielding nuns.
Quote from: Kenji on May 21, 2007, 12:26:08 PMI think an Associates Degree should be required to be a Pres
Oh, bad idea. The last time we had a president with a Ph.D, he went insane while in office. (Actually, Bush does have a Master's (an MBA, specifically)--but I think you can get one of those free in your Froot Loops)
As to education, one of the main issues that I have is the way that K-12 education is increasingly specialized. These days, you not only have to get into the right college to get a good job, but you need to get into the right preschool. If Johnny (or Janie) doesn't get into the preschool for fine arts, she'll never become a great artist. And we know that that's what she wants to be at age 4.
Up through high school should be the time for general education--when everyone should be learning the same things. We should all be learning how to be informed voters and good stewards of our democracy. That's why we're forced to go to school. (I'm a big fan of a classical education, and a critic of outcome based education)
What's more, the focus seems to be more on what words you have on a piece of vellum rather than what you actually know, which is a bit of a shame. Samuel Johnson and Edward Johnston (two big names in books) both dropped out of university and later went on to achieve great things. You couldn't do that today (at least, not in the US).
I also think that we should be teaching vector mathematics in high school. I got burned when I was learning Maxwell's equations, since they taught them in integral form, which is less intuitive than the differential form, and which you can't understand without higher-level vector mathematics.
I also think that quite often, politicians will look at education, and say, ``Here's more money. This will fix it.'' without actually looking at what to actually do with the money. NCLB is actually better in this regard, because someone devised a plan for what to do with the money. Granted, it was a bad plan, but still.
Most pressing issue: Is Julian Tavarez seriously deserving of a spot on the Red Sox rotation?
Seriously speaking, our education system is terrible, though the perception of Americans as DUM LOL generally comes from a small, but very notable minority. History, especially, needs to be fixed up. My history courses have gone from "YAY AMERICA" to "AMERICANS ARE EVIL" within 2 years with absolutely nothing in the middle. We read Howard Fucking Zinn this year.
PS: Fuck Julian Tavarez.
Quote from: superluser on May 21, 2007, 02:48:06 PM
Quote from: Kenji on May 21, 2007, 12:26:08 PMI think an Associates Degree should be required to be a Pres
Oh, bad idea. The last time we had a president with a Ph.D, he went insane while in office. (Actually, Bush does have a Master's (an MBA, specifically)--but I think you can get one of those free in your Froot Loops)
As to education, one of the main issues that I have is the way that K-12 education is increasingly specialized. These days, you not only have to get into the right college to get a good job, but you need to get into the right preschool. If Johnny (or Janie) doesn't get into the preschool for fine arts, she'll never become a great artist. And we know that that's what she wants to be at age 4.
Up through high school should be the time for general education--when everyone should be learning the same things. We should all be learning how to be informed voters and good stewards of our democracy. That's why we're forced to go to school. (I'm a big fan of a classical education, and a critic of outcome based education)
What's more, the focus seems to be more on what words you have on a piece of vellum rather than what you actually know, which is a bit of a shame. Samuel Johnson and Edward Johnston (two big names in books) both dropped out of university and later went on to achieve great things. You couldn't do that today (at least, not in the US).
I also think that we should be teaching vector mathematics in high school. I got burned when I was learning Maxwell's equations, since they taught them in integral form, which is less intuitive than the differential form, and which you can't understand without higher-level vector mathematics.
I also think that quite often, politicians will look at education, and say, ``Here's more money. This will fix it.'' without actually looking at what to actually do with the money. NCLB is actually better in this regard, because someone devised a plan for what to do with the money. Granted, it was a bad plan, but still.
Meh, I didn't want to go into specifics. I just want someone who knows their ABCs, at least. Hell, even Clinton did lots of good things, even though we all know him as a perv. I could care less what the pres does in his/her sparetime, but do your job right when it comes to pres'ing.
Anyways, I have wished since High School that they would have a mandatory (basic if necessary) politics class for people to go through so they can at least know what to look out for in the people they vote for.
Anyways, short response: yay more money for schools.
Get Bush out of the office, and get someone at least halfway competend in the oval office. Over the past 8 years America has gone from being joked about to being a joke itself.
America was supposed to be "the land of the free, home of the brave". What I've seen and heard is more like lots of fear-mongering (everyone with black hair and a tan has to watch how they put out their bloody garbage, or they'll be branded possible terrorists and banned from ever flying a plane, ever again), and lots of restrictions on freedom ("free speech zones", anyone?). Kick out the democrats AND the republics: they're both the same anyway. Vote for a third party that has wisdom and courage, and isn't voted on popularity alone.
Although, that might be a problem with democracy itself: the popular get to sit on the throne instead of the wise and competend.
Bush's out in ought-eight no matter what. As for the election, I'm not voting. Seriously, none of the candidates seem appealing at all to me.
Quote from: BillBuckner on May 21, 2007, 03:08:44 PMSeriously speaking, our education system is terrible, though the perception of Americans as DUM LOL generally comes from a small, but very notable minority.
It's actually a much larger group than you'd think. The people that show up on Jay Leno or newsmagazine interviews are a very small proportion of the people, but the people who don't know some things that are only slightly more difficult are shockingly low. Only 42% can name all three branches of government. Only 24% can name two Supreme Court Justices. (Let's see if I can name all 9 without looking them up... Breyer, Stevens, Kennedy, Alito, Scalia, Thomas, Souter, Ginsburg, Roberts)
Quote from: BillBuckner on May 21, 2007, 03:08:44 PMHistory, especially, needs to be fixed up. My history courses have gone from "YAY AMERICA" to "AMERICANS ARE EVIL" within 2 years with absolutely nothing in the middle. We read Howard Fucking Zinn this year.
I think we need to look at the things that we held dear in the creation of our country, and venerate them as true and good goals that we must actively seek, but we must realize that the US has done some pretty nasty stuff, and we're still doing it. I'm not talking about things like Iraq, but things that we've done for over a century, and are still doing. Things like the Individual Indian Monies accounts.
Quote from: BillBuckner on May 21, 2007, 03:40:22 PMBush's out in ought-eight no matter what.
Not if Steny Hoyer gets his way and repeals the 22nd Amendment. :rolleyes
I can understand you not wanting to vote for any of the above, but have you looked into third-party candidates? That's usually the way I vote.
I think I'm going to try to write-in Dr. Gregory House. :U
Gay marriage can wait, so can education (I'm plenty educated!!), but how about immigration?! Screw global warming and emissions, I want a stable, easy rule for dealing with people that want to live in the same country as me. Especially if they want to do the bitch work that I don't want to do.
I think the biggest problem with education today is that they're teaching to the standardized testing. Couple that with No Child Left Behind, and you have children who are learning to test well, but can't think outside the box or have any kind of critical thinking skills. The importance of the arts in education is huge- it teaches children how to think for themselves, find their creativity in situations, and learn that sometimes there is no right answer, yet it's being cut.
Honestly, I think the people going about creating these education programs are going about it ass-backward.
We got screwed over by NCLB. Because of some awful scheduling, we had to take the exact same test three times. The third time, everyone in my class just drew pretty pictures in the essay response sections.
Incidentally, I never liked the arts programs in my school. I've always thought that private outside lessons are the best way to go, as far as music is concerned.
Quote from: Damaris on May 21, 2007, 08:52:37 PMI think the biggest problem with education today is that they're teaching to the standardized testing.
I agree. That's what I was trying to say when I mentioned Outcome Based Education.
Quote from: Damaris on May 21, 2007, 08:52:37 PMCouple that with No Child Left Behind, and you have children who are learning to test well, but can't think outside the box or have any kind of critical thinking skills.
First off, we *don't* have children who are learning to test well, as test scores across the country are showing.
Secondly, I think the problem is deeper than children who do not have critical thinking skills. Anyone who's taken AP tests knows that standardized tests sometimes require thinking outside the box and critical thinking skills.
The problem, in my opinion, is that our teaching/learning model consists of learning virtually nothing for most of the course, cramming everything the night before, taking the test, and then forgetting it all.
That, combined with the fact that there is no longer any interdepartmental collaboration (the English department is afraid of the cold warriors in the Science department, and the Science department won't have anything to do with the pinkos in English), means that the student has no clue what learning is supposed to be about.
Quote from: Damaris on May 21, 2007, 08:52:37 PMThe importance of the arts in education is huge- it teaches children how to think for themselves, find their creativity in situations, and learn that sometimes there is no right answer, yet it's being cut.
If science is taught properly, it should teach that there are no right answers, either. There are only observations, and since Karl Popper, it should be encouraging students to make unbiased observations.
totally off topic, but do you write for a newspaper, by chance?
Quote from: superluser on May 21, 2007, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: Damaris on May 21, 2007, 08:52:37 PMI think the biggest problem with education today is that they're teaching to the standardized testing.
I agree. That's what I was trying to say when I mentioned Outcome Based Education.
Quote from: Damaris on May 21, 2007, 08:52:37 PMCouple that with No Child Left Behind, and you have children who are learning to test well, but can't think outside the box or have any kind of critical thinking skills.
First off, we *don't* have children who are learning to test well, as test scores across the country are showing.
Secondly, I think the problem is deeper than children who do not have critical thinking skills. Anyone who's taken AP tests knows that standardized tests sometimes require thinking outside the box and critical thinking skills.
The problem, in my opinion, is that our teaching/learning model consists of learning virtually nothing for most of the course, cramming everything the night before, taking the test, and then forgetting it all.
That, combined with the fact that there is no longer any interdepartmental collaboration (the English department is afraid of the cold warriors in the Science department, and the Science department won't have anything to do with the pinkos in English), means that the student has no clue what learning is supposed to be about.
Quote from: Damaris on May 21, 2007, 08:52:37 PMThe importance of the arts in education is huge- it teaches children how to think for themselves, find their creativity in situations, and learn that sometimes there is no right answer, yet it's being cut.
If science is taught properly, it should teach that there are no right answers, either. There are only observations, and since Karl Popper, it should be encouraging students to make unbiased observations.
Seriously, do you feel the need to be a pompous ass every time you post?
Quote from: James StarRunner on May 21, 2007, 12:19:35 PM
Unfortunately Americans have gotten the reputation of being ignorant. Apparently people aren't even taught about the neighboring counties like Canada and Mexico.
True, I'm pretty much ignorant of anything that happens outside of Nevada [or more specifically southern Nevada], all I know about Canadians, Californians, and states housing cities named Portland is the people who live there are crazy.
I know what Hollywood wants me to think, and I know what the newspapers, magazines, and broadcast news wants me to think, and in all honesty There isn't much difference. All the terrorists from 9/11 except one were from Saudi Arabia, but we [or rather Bush, and I use the term we because as our leader he represents the United States as whole] chose to attack Iraq... so that we would be strategically located next to Iran, unfortunately we didn't do it fast enough. The Iraqies aren't taking up for themselves and our soldiers are paying the price.
Whatever happened to the time exams used to be the majority of our marks so we couldn't just do one-shot tests and still pass :<
I think that, in the long run, the most pressing matter in America is education. The system has lots of flaws, and it isn't even being maintained at what would be an acceptable level if the flaws were gone.
In the short run, the major problem with America is the politicians. They aren't worried, the majority of them, about guiding the country or giving people what they need; they're worried about getting in to and staying in office. They pass personal legislation to get what they want in thier own world view, or popular elgislation because they think that it will help reelection, or to boost thier party. Most of the nations problems stem from this chaotic, self serving mass.
What America needs, short term, is for someone to come to office who wants to give America what it needs, not what it wants.
I find it interesting that a lot of people chose education...
I'd say its about right. My old teacher working in the US whom I still correspond with used to tell me that her best students in the US were the same level as the class clowns back here in the Philippines.
We discussed about it and she belives its that because Education is compulsary so the students really dont really see the knowledge they learn as a privellege.
of course this is true in any country... when I was doing volunteer work teaching reading and writing to indigenous peoples, I was surprised on how intent they were to learn, even the adults as opposed to people in the cities.
Screw Education.
Screw Gay marriage.
Screw Immigration
Screw Julian Tavarez
The most pressing issue that is facing the American people today is a lack of free Blow-Jobs.
Shame on you America.
The terrorists have won because of you.
:<
Quote from: Jim Halisstrad on May 22, 2007, 12:12:38 AM
The most pressing issue that is facing the American people today is a lack of free Blow-Jobs.
Shame on you America.
The terrorists have won because of you.
:<
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070519/NEWS10/705190342/1016/NEWS
You just arent looking hard enough!
....
MOM?!
The most pressing issue in america...
Where to start, really. The government is always easy to snipe.
Our ruling body is made up of one party that believes that it is the voice of God on earth, chosen by divine will that can do no wrong, and the other believes itself to be the infallible leaders of truth, justice, fairness, and equality, staunch defenders of American freedoms, and heroes in their own time. Neither admit fault to anything, and believe the other to by wrong on principle.
I of course speak in generalization, and but neither do I think I exaggerate, or if I do, do no great degree. There are people with minds on both ends, but to a large degree both sides are unwilling to compromise about anything. Instead of loyalty to higher office, they are loyal to the party - I am sure that some have more or less choice than others, and yet, American government is split into two giants who won't, or who can't, blink or compromise. We can't get shit done without it being lauded by one side and denounced by the other.
If we could at least stop letting petty, piddling and paltry issues become mountains, or at least realize that before donkeys and elephants we live in the same damn country, we might find most people really do have reasons for the way they think, and aren't demons who want to kill babies or brainwash young children.
In conclusion, vote libertarian. Or green. Or move to Canada. Or something. :)
I hear New Zealand is nice this time of year.
Quote from: Darkmoon on May 21, 2007, 10:28:31 PMSeriously, do you feel the need to be a pompous ass every time you post?
Was I? I try to be enlightening every time I post.
I always see the internet as a vehicle for advancing the general level of knowledge of humanity, and I try to move towards that goal.
I'm sorry if I come off as a pompous ass. I'm working on it.
PS. Enlightenment:
Quote from: Jim Halisstrad on May 22, 2007, 12:12:38 AMThe most pressing issue that is facing the American people today is a lack of free Blow-Jobs.
There's actually a candidate for Belgian senate (Tania Derveaux) who is touring the world offering 40,000 free blow jobs as part of her campaign.
I was watching Survivor: Fiji today and one of the guys didn't know what 'askew' meant. :< He didn't know 'orthogonal' either.
Quote from: King Of Hearts on May 22, 2007, 12:17:47 AM
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070519/NEWS10/705190342/1016/NEWS
You just arent looking hard enough!
If I was looking at her, I'd move on and keep looking. Eurgh. Looking at that, I'd say she's assaulting 13yo boys because nobody with the choice would touch her with a barge pole...
Quote from: Cogidubnus on May 22, 2007, 12:34:20 AM
I hear New Zealand is nice this time of year.
New Zealand is nice any time of year. The south Island is scenic, the North Island is pretty, as long as you avoid going north of the Bombay Hills you can avoid most of the unpleasant people completely...
Quote from: superluser on May 22, 2007, 12:40:04 AM
There's actually a candidate for Belgian senate (Tania Derveaux) who is touring the world offering 40,000 free blow jobs as part of her campaign.
... where does one sign up? :-] And does she swallow or spit?
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 22, 2007, 04:23:32 AM
Quote from: Cogidubnus on May 22, 2007, 12:34:20 AM
I hear New Zealand is nice this time of year.
New Zealand is nice any time of year. The south Island is scenic, the North Island is pretty, as long as you avoid going north of the Bombay Hills you can avoid most of the unpleasant people completely...
And they named a hill with a garbage dump on top of it after John Cleese! :)
Screw Tim Wakefield too.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on May 22, 2007, 04:23:32 AM... where does one sign up? :-] And does she swallow or spit?
http://www.nee-antwerpen.be/index-eng.htm (NSFW, obviously)
It says that you have to bring your own condoms, so I'm assuming neither swallow nor spit.
I enjoyed the dee dee dee video, though I think Carlos Mencia may need to change his underpants.
One of the things I think screwing this country up in a big way are "those people" that are consistently prone to that line of thinking that causes them to CONSTANTLY make HUGE deals out of what common sense would dictate as no big deal. (I'm as guilty of this at times as others - see Atheism rants) In short I suppose you could say habitually forceful people.
For example, the type of person that goes, "You think Clinton's personal life doesn't have anything to do with his job? OH YES IT DOES! RANT RANT RANT."
"You don't think gays are a problem in America? OH YES THEY ARE! RANT RANT RANT!"
"My kid is NOT dumb! This test score SAYS HE'S DUMB! DO YOU KNOW HOW POOR WE ARE!? CHANGE THE TESTS SO THEY'RE EASIER! RANT RANT RANT!" (You see the error in thinking in that one that lead to the dangerous proposition?)
It's hard to explain that "certain quality" that I see so much in so many people these days, but I hope you can at least glimpse what I'm talking about. It's forcefullness with a dose of militaristic and close minded dogma. Emotional reasoning. Lack of critical thinking. Either/or thinking. It's fine when it's your own viewpoint, and helps you through life, and it's great to be social with it to people who are open minded about it and think like you do, if it fosters healthy and harmless personal and social growth. But when you start forcing it on other people, and people aren't wary enough or courageous enough to say "You're making a big deal out of nothing, and are going to screw all the important stuff over because of it. And I don't like that.", we become a type of country that you see today. Most would rather just agree with them than listen to more of it even if they don't believe it. Others would rather exile them, attack them mercilessly (which makes them martyr themselves), or put them away. We need to ignore this kind of emotional pressure, yet encourage the ones spewing it to sit down and really truly think it through. Let them know that YES, they are the minority, and YES, that does matter some. We certainly can't foster the few leading the masses.
I suspect a lot of it has to do with what we allow on television and other media. Now, I know this is controversial, but if we are a television addicted nation, and put nothing but crap and violence and forcefullness on television, it's going to have some effect on those that don't already have an immunity to it, and maybe those that do. I'm not talking DOOM caused Virginia Tech line of thinking, I'm talking Jerry Springer caused a new pool of Jerry Springer guests line of thinking. It's why themes like the ones embraced by Carlos Mencia do gain a cult following, yet Jerry Springer is a multi million dollar enterprise. Maybe in fact, we could gain more insight not from what we allow on televison, but observing what becomes POPULAR and WHY.
/end ramble
/DEE DEE DEE
While he does take the whole dee dee dee thing to an extreme of sorts, the message is pretty clear. We have a problem where people are doing their best (or worst, depending on your point of view) to make sure that no one falls behind, whether or not they're actually doing anything. And that hurts more people than it helps. They just want to get that piece of paper with the word "diploma" written on it into the hands of kids as quickly as possible and shove them out to the real world.
And you are right about the whole television thing. In fact, media as a whole is probably one of the biggest problems with kids. That's right, elderly rantings have some merit (the problem with kids these days is television, video games, and the tuba). Massive amounts of entertainment is at your fingertips and it's much easier to flip on the tv than it is to, y'know, do homework. Some of the problem can actually be attributed to this kind of laziness.
Some of it can also be attributed to parental inattentiveness. I don't know how many times I've said on many related topics that parents need to be involved with their kids' lives. Unfortunately it gets difficult when the majority of families have both parents working nine to five. The problem is everywhere, really.
I don't think it's laziness. I really honestly think attributing "lazy" to it may cause a backlash that keeps it in place. For instance, watching TV and reading are both nonphysical activities. I think the problem is that people deem TV more enjoyable than reading. Why is this? It's certainly not a fact that TV is more enjoyable than reading a book. It's a matter of personal preference. But it's almost certainly provable (if it hasn't been proven) that reading encourages more thinking and fosters more useful skills than watching the boob tube. But why aren't more people keen on reading a book? There's a theory that if you read to your kids when they are very young, and buy them whatever books they want as they grow with it, they're more likely to enjoy reading. Why is it then, that we see so many "save the whales" and "vote for Bush!" type group efforts than we do "READ TO YOUR KIDS ASSHOLE!". It's certainly more important than picking one party or another or animal rights I think, though no doubt PETA would massacre me for saying so. Again with the emotional and forceful reasoning.
I read in a newspaper just three weeks ago that more than 54% of Americans are employed by a government agency including local, state, or nationwide, and the number is expected to be 60% by 2011.
Quote from: Evil Richter on May 22, 2007, 10:54:49 AM
But why aren't more people keen on reading a book? There's a theory that if you read to your kids when they are very young, and buy them whatever books they want as they grow with it, they're more likely to enjoy reading. Why is it then, that we see so many "save the whales" and "vote for Bush!" type group efforts than we do "READ TO YOUR KIDS ASSHOLE!". It's certainly more important than picking one party or another or animal rights I think, though no doubt PETA would massacre me for saying so. Again with the emotional and forceful reasoning.
Just wanted to express my opinion on the love of reading issue...
I just don't understand why more effort, time, and money isn't put into literacy programs, especially where I come from...it's really depressing when you discover that, even though you live in a county with a university, good public libraries, and all that stuff, about 40% of the adult residents can barely read at a 5th grade level. :< I suspect it is worse in the rural area I am originally from, which have such poor scores on state tests and the like in reading comprehension, etc., that the vast majority of high school graduates have to take remedial english courses, if not remedial everything. I was one of the lucky ones because my parents read to me, I guess. :/
Part of me still wants to be a english teacher, to help the kids back home.
That's a hard figure to believe, but I can't say it would surprise me. I wonder how they came up with that. Is that among only Americans currently employed, or all Americans? By employed, what exactly do they mean? Etc.
Also, thinking upon my last post, I think another huge problem with America is bad parenting.
when I went to college I was forced to take a remedial English class based on a free writing essay, we were told we couldn't use spell check, or edit our work, and we had less than 20 minutes. While in the remedial English class I learned nothing I hadn't learned before, and much more effectively, and the English 101, and 102 instructors weren't nearly as difficult. Also, I've met High School students who were in pre-calculus, placed into classes for beginning and intermediate algebra. In all Honesty, I don't think we' are that bad, I believe it's a scam so that the college can get extra money or discourage students who aren't serious.
Granted there are some very smart kids out there. Back in high school I dated a girl who had half of all of her classes as honors classes. There's no question that there are very smart kids out there who will go on to great things, but there are a lot of kids out there who aren't going to be as successful, and a lot who are just going to fail completely. And Richter is right, bad parenting is a huge problem. Not just for education, but for just about everything else that kids experience.
Quote from: Evil Richter on May 22, 2007, 10:24:32 AMFor example, the type of person that goes, "You think Clinton's personal life doesn't have anything to do with his job? OH YES IT DOES! RANT RANT RANT."
I think Winston Churchill described this best when he said, ``A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.''
If you're finding these people online, I find that the internet actually discourages agreement, which is seen as wasted bandwidth, and you'll get mocked for agreeing too much (http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/A/AOL-.html).
Quote from: Ryudo Lee on May 22, 2007, 10:48:35 AMThey just want to get that piece of paper with the word "diploma" written on it into the hands of kids as quickly as possible and shove them out to the real world.
Indeed. They don't even want to have the education associated with that degree--just the increased salary that might allow them to actually make enough money to survive.
Quote from: Evil Richter on May 22, 2007, 10:54:49 AMBut it's almost certainly provable (if it hasn't been proven) that reading encourages more thinking and fosters more useful skills than watching the boob tube.
I had a teacher that tried to drill into us that this is in fact not true. It all depends on what you're reading and what you're watching. Does the latest book with Fabio on the cover really encourage more thinking and foster more useful skills than a Ken Burns documentary (or even an episode of Law and Order)?
Of course, a passable book is usually far better than great TV, but just because something's written down doesn't mean that it's quality.
Oh, I didn't say it's necessarily quality, just that it possibly encourages thinking a bit more and stimulates more brain activity. I'm sure if pressed, I could find some credible research to back up that argument, but I could be wrong.
QuoteUnfortunately Americans have gotten the reputation of being ignorant. Apparently people aren't even taught about the neighboring counties like Canada and Mexico.
Ah, I just saw this. While working at a call center one time, I had a male customer in about his thirties, from NC I believe, when referring to his long distance girlfriend supposedly in Canada say, "That's like a whole 'nother country, isn't it?" He was serious. :U
I don't know what kind of retarded, backwards-ass schools all of the "supposed" people are going to, but I have yet to meet someone on the internet that doesn't know the difference between the USA and Canada. Or the USA and Cuba. Or the USA and Bali. The internet isn't for nerds anymore, either, there are perfectly normal people using it nowadays... The idea that americans are uneducated is a sad stereotype that people from other countries like to make jokes about, in my opinion. Maybe not. Maybe I was just lucky to hit the school districts that I hit and got the education that I got.
So yeah, you go fix your education issues. I'll be busy learning spanish. Porrrrr queeeee?!
do you mean porque as in because?
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Netami:
Nothing to see here people, move along!
(http://post.queensu.ca/~curtis/sony/barbrady.jpg)