Ok, I think that this is a rather big discussion topic that needs its own thread. So here it is.
All know theories of Able's cubi causes, and my logic-crunched conclusions based on all of the info I have gathered, including new data that was posted after this in the thread "#77 Abel an inky bus? weel dye of fright"
Ok
Theory #1: May is the Cubi parent.
Judging by her reactions and ignorance to basic cubi traits, she must be an extreamly good actor AND quick thinker in order to be the cubi parent. Also thereis another thing that is a big debate topic that I will bring up in the next theory
Verdict: Given the reactions, it is extreamly unlikely she is the cubi parent.
Theory #2: Cid is the Cubi Parent.
I would have to say, this is much, MUCH more likely, if not for one fact. No matter what they do, a Cubi CANNOT hide their clan marking. Even if one was skilled enough to morph into some sort of monstrous blob, that marking would still be somewhere. Whenever May and Cid are in the house, I would assume they sleep together, and on occasion, do more than just sleep *wink wink*. May thinks the marking on Able's back is a tatoo. This means that she has never seen it before. Not even on Cid. I seriously doubt Cid could hide his marking every night they are in bed together. "what if his marking is under the eyepatch?" I doubt he sleeps with it on. Even if he does wear it to hide the mark, I'm sure May would have taken it off herself at some point, knowing that she loves him enough even if she thinks the reason he wears the eyepatch is because he is missing an eye. An if Cid were to try to stop her, that would raise some sort of tension between them, and she might just take it off anyway in HIS sleep.
However, this is where the new data i collected must be inputed. People have suggested other ways of hiding clan markings, and someone pointed out that people who really Do lose an eye sew their eyelids shut.
That being said, it is again possible for Cid to be the cubi, but something crossed my mind that really bothers me. Why would he want to hide it anyway? Especially since he should have know that Abel's headwings would come in sometime, don't you think he would have told and warned May, or even Abel himself for that matter? It just doesn't make sence. May would still love him even if Cid is a cubi.
Verdict: While possible, Amber will have to come up with a very good reason for him to hide it like this when he should have know it would fall apart eventually. I am also open to any reason any of youcome up with, so if you have an idea, post it.
So I think unlikely, but still very possible.
Going back to the first theory, May would have an even harder time hiding her marking than Cid, because she doesnt have a convenient sew-up eye for it to be cliche hidden behind. Even though I'm sure Cid would still love her even if she is a sucubbus, why play 'charades', like at Abel's birth when they were discussing his wings, that they both know the truth, and they both know the other knows? Just doesn't make sense.
Theory #3: Random magical energies influenced Able's birth.
First off, magical energies can only cause what some would consider deformities. Cynthia is a perfect example of this. There is no way any RANDOM energies could have caused Able to become fully a Cubi. It would also have to somehow carry clan implications, also impossible.It could possibly cause someone to be born with wings, but like Cid said, doesn't make him an angle, or grant him the full traits and abilities of one, let alone a cubi.
Verdict: Impossible.
Theory #4: Cid was cursed with a non-random, structured spell specifically designed to make him have a Cubi child.
This one just bothers me. If any spell could even do that, why would he not tell May about it, as to prepare her for what her own son is going to be?
Verdict: Probably impossible.
Theory #5: May, or Cid, or both, are partially cubi, or have some distant cubi heritage.
This one is probably the most finicky of the lot. The only thing we know absolutly sure is that you cannot be partially cubi, you are fully cubi or not at all. And that doesnt help much. Amber hasnt done the Hybrid genetics mini-arc, so we can't know if "cubism" is genetic or magical.
Verdict:Given the amount of uncertainty in this one, I cannot draw a conclusion that I would be comfortable with.
Theory #6: A Cubi has killed and replaced Cid or May.
Like some pointed out erlier, the 'new' Cid or May would have to be able to act just like the originals. While that is entirely possible with cubi mind-abilities, there is STILL the simple and show-stopping "hide the marking" problem. And even if, like some have suggested, there ARE ways to hideit, surely the cubi living a lie for so long would just break down and tell the real one?
Verdict: Unlikely
Theory #7: A Succubus tricked Cid.
If that were to happen, the succubus would have to kidnap and somehow keep May out of the picture for at least 8 months, starting from the time said cubi had sex with Cid, ending at the time of Abel's birth. Then the succubus would have to implant all of it's memories into May so she would think she was there the whole time. and THEN there is the damn "hide the mark" AGAIN, because the succubus would have to pull it off for at least 8 months.(unless she found a way to hide it, like suggested.) And if I were the sucubbus, I would just end up killing May and staying with Cid anyway, which would fall under the theory above.
Verdict: Unlikely.
Theory #8: An Incubus tricked May.
The last one, and just F.Y.I. i never inteded this one to be the end-all answer, it just makes the most sense. Cid is out on one of his many long adventures. May is asleep, dreaming about him. An Incubus chances by, enters May's mind, and finds about Cid. Incubus takes Cid's form and has a nice night with May, probably making her think she is still asleep. Cid finally returns, and neither of them know the difference, even when May turns out pregnant, because genreally, couples don't lead sexually inert marriges. And with Cid constantly being gone, they probably do it as often as they can (Until Able was born, and Cid gave up adventuring). Backing up a bit, hell, the Incubus doesnt even need for Cid to be on an adventure, Cid could just be gone in town for just one night and the incubus could pull it off. And there isn't the "hide the mark" problem, because the Incubus would only have to try to hide it for one night, not for months or years on end. Easily doable.
Verdict: Yes, I would have to say this is probably the only answer.
A note, All of the theories that are halted by the marking problem, you might say that the marking-bearer could pretend it was a tatoo. Well, if that was the case, then why did May express surprise, and not suspicion, when she saw Able with the very same tatoo? "Able, that tatoo looks just like Cids!", not "What, praytell, is that on your back?" would have to be what she should have said in order for that to be possible. And if she was the one with the mark, what is the point of bluffing?
Ok, i fitted in as much of the new data that i could. Now let the debating and new-theory suggesting begin!
I still like May for the Cubi for a couple of reasons.
1. The clan marking only shows when a cubi uses magic regularly. This is why Dan doesn't have one. (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_550.php) Morphing to hide wings doesn't really count, because it's natural for a cubi (Case in point, Vol #691 (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_691.php")). Because Abel's clan is so fractured, this might be all she was taught, as a defense. Because she lives pretty low-key, she might not absorb enough emotions to stay young, so she may appear to age more like a being. Also, remember, she was reluctant to learn magic when Kria started teaching Abel.
2. In Abel's Story, Page 27 (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Abel_29.php), Cid makes the observation that Abel, like May, hardly eats, yet they suffer no ill effects. Remember that before Dan's headwings manifested, Alexsi had an idea (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_305.php) of what was coming...
3. IMHO, I just think May works better as a Cubi than Cid. (I'm done with logic. Facts are boring... :tongue)
EDIT: O yeah, I forgot. According to the wiku-wiki (http://dmfa.wikia.com/wiki/Demon), you can't be half-cubi.
Seems that the female gene comes in again . This would allow for all the skin markings , and if May ran a straight shift, would never be noticed . They were practically outcasts from their old town , and if May occaisonally slipped in her markings in Zvinth , a city of demons and others would not give it a second thought . Cid was out a lot of the time . In Dan's case, Destina became swept into a marriage , that led into the birth of Dan , who had a relativliy stable upbrining . Bit too stable, as he tends to make too much advantage of Alexi at Lost Lake .
The "May for Cubi" theory does show some merit... But I do not see how it would be all that logical in the long run. Considering her actions and responses, it would not fall together very properly with the story, unless Amber made a big turn. Also, I suspect that being someone else's child and his mother being deceived is what initially sparked Abel's distaste for shapeshifting and taking on others' appearances.
Quote from: kaskar on March 28, 2007, 06:34:51 AM
They were practically outcasts from their old town , and if May occaisonally slipped in her markings in Zvinth , a city of demons and others would not give it a second thought . Cid was out a lot of the time . In Dan's case, Destina became swept into a marriage , that led into the birth of Dan , who had a relativliy stable upbrining . Bit too stable, as he tends to make too much advantage of Alexi at Lost Lake .
I don't think the inn belongs to Alexsi. She's acting as steward but it most likely belongs to Edward and Destania. Also Dan seems to be living off his loot from the adventuring days, so he
could pay his way if need be.
The only way it can belong to Alexsi (squatter laws notwithstanding) is if Destania legally transferred it to her, which is unlikely because:
- It would leave her and Edward homeless in the event that she rescued him
- Alexsi would probably have been a minor at the time and unable to enter such a contract
- She'd need Edward's consent since it is ultimately their joint property
- It would leave Dan without an inheritance, and he is arguably more important to her than Alexsi since he is the continuation of her line and she isn't
...but I digress. As for the May-is-a-succubus theory, don't forget she has family in Zinvth too.
Other than my new theory in the other thread, I can think of only one other thing... and I won't mention it, just in case i'm right >:3
while all this may be so, what happens when time passes on . With his lifespan measured in thousands of years, and his race being described as devilish boogymenhe could suffer severe phsycological problems in his future years . Look at Dan . Good thing he had so much support around him , but in some ways he emotionally collapsed in part., and even wildy couldn't get him to give a bar a go
QuoteA note, All of the theories that are halted by the marking problem, you might say that the marking-bearer could pretend it was a tatoo. Well, if that was the case, then why did May express surprise, and not suspicion, when she saw Able with the very same tatoo? "Able, that tatoo looks just like Cids!", not "What, praytell, is that on your back?" would have to be what she should have said in order for that to be possible. And if she was the one with the mark, what is the point of bluffing?
Really the mark isn't that much of a problem for Cid. May could still remark to Abel "What praytell is that on your back?" even if she knew about a similiar one on Cid.
But try this one for size: Cid was replaced by an Incubus after a adventurer trip, and new "Cid" tricks May into think Cid is badly scared and will only do "it" in the dark or very low light. They are married and "Cid" could always be on top. All other times, he has a shirt on and showers alone. If his clan mark is on his back like Abel's, May chances of see it become very low.
OR
Cid just said it is a tatoo, that his adventurer buddies "gave" him it. May will think it weird that her son gets the same "Tatoo" from his friends.. But May is more upset about Abel"s Partying at College.
Remember folks, Once you start a Lie, it can get very big the longer it is in place. The Incubus may have grown to love May, as time when on, but he would be afraid he would lose everything once, May learns the true, and Abel will most likely turn against him, too. Little mistakes and errors will be over looked by May, because she loves "Cid".
PBH
There's also the point that, if it -is- Cid that is an incubus, and his mark is on his back... How often are you facing the back of the guy? Honestly?
It wouldn't surprise me much if he could manage to keep it a secret. Particularly since he wouldn't need to sleep, and could be sure to get up earlier than May....
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 07:21:41 AMThe only way it can belong to Alexsi (squatter laws notwithstanding) is if Destania legally transferred it to her, which is unlikely because:
- It would leave her and Edward homeless in the event that she rescued him
- Alexsi would probably have been a minor at the time and unable to enter such a contract
- She'd need Edward's consent since it is ultimately their joint property
- It would leave Dan without an inheritance, and he is arguably more important to her than Alexsi since he is the continuation of her line and she isn't
Some legal issues might be easier to deal with if the inn is in Alexsi's name. For example--what if that reporter claims that there's a rat infestation? Alexsi can't sue for defamation because she'd have to prove that such statements were damaging to her livelihood, and since she doesn't own the inn, it's not damaging to her livelihood. It's damaging to Edward, but he can't bring suit.
An easy way out of this would be for Destania to have the courts declare Edward dead and pass the inn on to whoever was named in Edward's will--possibly still Alexsi.
Why are we debating the ownship of the Inn? When we were talking about Abel's Cubi Heritage? ???
But be that as it may, Alexsi can legally declare that her father and step-mother are dead since it most likely has been seven years or more since any word has been heard from either of them (legally anyway). If Alexsi needed too, she could take ownship in their absence
And once they return, Edward and Destania can prove that they are a live. and they can take the Inn back or not? This is a loving family, I can see them fighting over the Inn. And Alexsi would most likely leave with Pyroduck, if there were a fight.
:mowtongue
PBH
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 07:21:41 AM
...but I digress. As for the May-is-a-succubus theory, don't forget she has family in Zinvth too.
Where does it say that?
Quote from: Stygian on March 28, 2007, 06:58:31 AM
Also, I suspect that being someone else's child and his mother being deceived is what initially sparked Abel's distaste for shapeshifting and taking on others' appearances.
point taken.
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 07:21:41 AMThe only way it can belong to Alexsi (squatter laws notwithstanding) is if Destania legally transferred it to her, which is unlikely because:
- It would leave her and Edward homeless in the event that she rescued him
- Alexsi would probably have been a minor at the time and unable to enter such a contract
- She'd need Edward's consent since it is ultimately their joint property
- It would leave Dan without an inheritance, and he is arguably more important to her than Alexsi since he is the continuation of her line and she isn't
Some legal issues might be easier to deal with if the inn is in Alexsi's name. For example--what if that reporter claims that there's a rat infestation? Alexsi can't sue for defamation because she'd have to prove that such statements were damaging to her livelihood, and since she doesn't own the inn, it's not damaging to her livelihood. It's damaging to Edward, but he can't bring suit.
An easy way out of this would be for Destania to have the courts declare Edward dead and pass the inn on to whoever was named in Edward's will--possibly still Alexsi.
Hmm...
Lost Lake Inn is most likely an incorporated entity which owns the property. (They do exist in Furrae--Jyrras owns a rather famous and successful one.) The establishment sees a fair bit of traffic--enough to be noticed by and benefit from (presumably non-local) news coverage. It is also a popular watering hole for more than just the regular cast members. Even in our world, anything larger than a little B&B would be incorporated for tax purposes, easier asset management, liability issues, and so on. Furthermore, given Edward's dangerous profession, it seems quite reasonable that ownership of the inn would have been structured in such a way as to ensure uninterrupted operation and facilitate transfer should he ever fail to return from a mission.
Regardless, even if Alexsi is not yet a majority owner, she currently has executive control of the operation.
Back to the heritage question...
This whole debate about Cubi markings begs the question as to why anyone in Furrae would even
care about such a thing. Cubi are so rare as to be virtually unknown. Even if an adventurer happened to be familiar with Cubi abilities, it's quite a stretch to suggest that individual clan markings would mean anything to them. That would demand a more esoteric study of a rare, reclusive, and mostly dead race--not the sort of thing covered in the standard "If it moves, hit it till it stops." training.
So... even if the Cubi parent did have means to hide their markings, why would they have gone to all that trouble to hide a "tattoo"? We haven't seen any on either of Abel's parents; any markings would be in locations normally covered by clothing. Thus, hiding that sort of thing from one's spouse on the unlikely chance it might be associated with a race of demonic soul-suckers would seem to require a special sort of paranoia and lack of trust.
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 28, 2007, 12:07:07 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 07:21:41 AM
As for the May-is-a-succubus theory, don't forget she has family in Zinvth too.
Where does it say that?
Whoops, brain fault. It doesn't. I was thinking of this: http://missmab.com/Comics/Abel_21.php
...but it doesn't say that her mother is in Zinvfth, I just misconstrued it that way. Better make sure that didn't end up in the wiki.
What SL is saying about the inn does make sense, but it would kind of suck - from that position, Alexsi, who is extremely volatile, could quite easily turn her parents down if and when they return. They wouldn't even be able to pay rent since the inn is/was their livelihood. She probably wouldn't do that, but she
could. But perhaps we've talked about the inn too much. This is supposed to be about Abel :P
COuldnt say it better...Shall I go into head kicker mode Tape?
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 12:17:05 PMLost Lake Inn is most likely an incorporated entity which owns the property. (They do exist in Furrae--Jyrras owns a rather famous and successful one.) The establishment sees a fair bit of traffic--enough to be noticed by and benefit from (presumably non-local) news coverage. It is also a popular watering hole for more than just the regular cast members. Even in our world, anything larger than a little B&B would be incorporated for tax purposes, easier asset management, liability issues, and so on.
I dunno. For a one-man operation, incorporation is pretty daunting. At the very least, you'd need a full-time accountant.
Also, just because it's called a corporation doesn't mean it is. I once worked for a company that was called World Wide News, Inc. But it was in actuality a DBA. (it also didn't own the property--just leased with an option to buy from the previous owners)
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 12:17:05 PMBack to the heritage question...
Yes! There's another option that we're all forgetting. What if May was unfaithful...and knew that she was being unfaithful? She claims to be concerned for Abel, but...
What if the real reason that she wanted to move to Zinvth was that her gentleman caller was moving there? She gets concerned when she sees Abel with a symbol that she's only seen on her other lover--she thinks that Abel may know. She doesn't eat much in front of Cid because she has dinner with her other lover. She gets upset at Principal Sally because she has to keep up appearances.
...and so on. This is perhaps the sorriest bit of speculation I've ever done.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 12:19:51 PM
What SL is saying about the inn does make sense, but it would kind of suck - from that position, Alexsi, who is extremely volatile, could quite easily turn her parents down if and when they return. They wouldn't even be able to pay rent since the inn is/was their livelihood. She probably wouldn't do that, but she could. But perhaps we've talked about the inn too much. This is supposed to be about Abel :P
Um... Destania must have 7000 years worth of collected assets, many of which could have been sitting around collecting interest during her time at SAIA. She's working for Biggs right now because a genocidal conflict with one of Furrae's most ancient and powerful races just happens to be her thing, not because she needs to pay the rent.
:mowtongue
Quote
Whoops, brain fault. It doesn't. I was thinking of this: http://missmab.com/Comics/Abel_21.php
...but it doesn't say that her mother is in Zinvfth, I just misconstrued it that way. Better make sure that didn't end up in the wiki.
Despite the mistake, that's actually an interesting catch. We know that May has a mother who was alive while May was a child. If May is the Cubi, is her whole family in on the ruse? >:3
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 01:00:50 PM
I dunno. For a one-man operation, incorporation is pretty daunting. At the very least, you'd need a full-time accountant.
Not really. I incorporated my first business without the benefit of a full-time accountant. If you already keep very good business records, it's not that much more paperwork.
QuoteAlso, just because it's called a corporation doesn't mean it is. I once worked for a company that was called World Wide News, Inc. But it was in actuality a DBA. (it also didn't own the property--just leased with an option to buy from the previous owners)
Um... that's not legal. The various corporate designations (Incorporated, Limited, Corporation, etc. and their related abbreviations) can only be used by corporate entites.
Ok, seriously, stop talking about Alexi owning the inn. The whole reason I made this thread is to AVOID non sequitors. If you want to talk about it, make your own thread, please.
Now, the reason I kept making the "hide the mark" problem such a big one is that May clearly has not seen it before, unless she is bluffing, which she would only do if SHE was the succubus. However, i the thread this used to be in, many people suggested ways to hide the mark without natural shapeshifting. But that aside, a new question came up to me, that i already explained,but apparently must bring up again.
WHY hide the mark/being a cubi in the first place? If May Or Cid is the cubi, or if May or Cid were replaced by a Cubi, they would HAVE to have know, the moment they saw Baby Abel with wings, that he would grow up to be a cubi. They would have to know it is inevitable that Abel's headwings would come in eventually, and bring the entire charade crashing down. Alexi made the mistake of forgetting to warn Dan that he was a incubus, but that was an accident. The situation with Abel's family would have to have been thought out in advance, as well as the contingency of Abel's cubi side finally beggining to kick in full swing. It just doesn't make sense that whoever is the cubi would just LET this problem happen. However, in all the senarios of Cid the cubi, May the cubi, Cid/May being replaced by a cubi, I think that if one of these HAS to happen, it will almost definatly be Cid being the cubi, and Amber will still have to come up with a good reason for why he would want to hide it like this.
That being said, I still contend that the theory of an Incubus tricking May is the most likely, and for another thing that I forgot to mention. I don't know about you, but if I were to have freaking wings sticking out of my head because some stranger Incubus stole my dad's form and got yiffy wth my mom, thus turning ME into a cubi, I would almost certainly hold a grudge against any cubi that uses it's shapeshifting abilities to impersonate someone, if not the entire cubi race.
I meant to post this with the original list of theories, but when i did so i was quite rushed and didnt put as much spit'n'polish on it as I wanted.
But again, seriously STOP TALKING ABOUT ALEXI OWNING LOST LAKE. that is a non sequitor, so put it in its own thread, but stop posting it here.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 01:08:36 PMUm... Destania must have 7000 years worth of collected assets, many of which could have been sitting around collecting interest during her time at SAIA. She's working for Biggs right now because a genocidal conflict with one of Furrae's most ancient and powerful races just happens to be her thing, not because she needs to pay the rent.
Alternatively, the take-home pay for SAIA professors may be quite low. Given that they probably need to live on campus in order not to make SAIA's presence too obvious to the surrounding community, and rent for a place at a magical hidden academy of arcane arts is probably not cheap, plus some heavy duty health insurance for a species that is probably unknown to most doctors...
I wouldn't be surprised if Fa'Lina just provided whatever the professors wanted and called it even.
Also, from time to time, the place gets attacked, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the older `cubi were expected to pitch in for the rebuilding costs. Destania may be flat broke. I think that's a bit unlikely, but I wouldn't find it at all odd if she had less than $10,000 to her name.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 01:08:36 PMNot really. I incorporated my first business without the benefit of a full-time accountant. If you already keep very good business records, it's not that much more paperwork.
I find it very hard to believe that Alexsi could man the inn for probably something like 12+ hours a day and still find time to do the paperwork.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 01:08:36 PMUm... that's not legal. The various corporate designations (Incorporated, Limited, Corporation, etc. and their related abbreviations) can only be used by corporate entites.
I think it was another corporation doing business as this corporation. But my point remains that just because it's JyCorp doesn't mean it's incorporated.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 01:10:05 PMOk, seriously, stop talking about Alexi owning the inn. The whole reason I made this thread is to AVOID non sequitors. If you want to talk about it, make your own thread, please.
You can't own a thread, but I think I'm done with this stuff.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 01:10:05 PMIf May Or Cid is the cubi, or if May or Cid were replaced by a Cubi, they would HAVE to have know, the moment they saw Baby Abel with wings, that he would grow up to be a cubi. They would have to know it is inevitable that Abel's headwings would come in eventually, and bring the entire charade crashing down.
Unless they skipped health class.
Otherwise, that's a really good point.
Another prosaic option that no one seems to have considered--what if there's a `cubi family in Cantiv wondering why their kid's headwings haven't come in yet? I can't imagine that the hospitals there are that scrupulous about this stuff. He's manila colored. He's got spots. He's obviously yours.
Yes, Why hide the mark/Tatoo? May doesn't know anything about Cubi, so just tell her it's a tatoo. I still say you are read too much into one sentence... If Cid has a "tatoo", which May could know about but wishes Cid didn't have. May's reaction to Abel's "tatoo" could be more likely,
1) My Son, my little baby, has a Tatoo!...
2) My Son, is getting Drunk enough not to remember Anything! not even a Tatoo. What's next? a pregnant girl on my door step?
3) And how offen does he get drunk that it is no big deal?
May could have seen that Abel was sporting a Tatoo, But she was too shock by that fact alone to Say That It looks the same as your father's. Or shocked that Abel gets drunk.
As for Cid (or May) not saying anything about Abel growing head wing: 1) the parent figures that he or she will be there for Abel when it happens... 2) and saying anything about Cubi is going to expose the LIE...
PBH
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 02:15:53 PM
Another prosaic option that no one seems to have considered--what if there's a `cubi family in Cantiv wondering why their kid's headwings haven't come in yet? I can't imagine that the hospitals there are that scrupulous about this stuff. He's manila colored. He's got spots. He's obviously yours.
Good idea. Like most of the happier theories it doesn't explain Abel's detestation of shapeshifting though. I have a strong feeling it's tied in with his heritage - if it was something he'd picked up during SAIA (almost said 'Uni') it's likely they would have been able to talk him out of it, so I'm thinking it was burned into him before he attended.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 01:10:05 PM
But again, seriously STOP TALKING ABOUT ALEXI OWNING LOST LAKE. that is a non sequitor, so put it in its own thread, but stop posting it here.
Please stop telling the forum what to do. If the conversation goes naturally to a slightly different topic yet there is still intelligent discussion, it's more rude in my opinion for someone to constantly try to shoehorn things back to what they want. You may have been the thread-starter, but since this isn't an RP, it doesn't give you control over the thread itself.
[ignores previous banter and dispute and gets with the topic]
Who here did not notice the thing about the clan mark dissappearing if the 'cubus in question does not practice magic for an extended time period (where did you get that information, by the way?)? If that is indeed the case, and shapeshifting, being a natural ability, does not count as magic for a cubi, then wouldn't that just write off all the requirements for concealing or explaining it? And if that is true, is that not a point in favor of Cid being the 'cubi in hiding?
Jeez. [sighs]
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 01:10:05 PM
WHY hide the mark/being a cubi in the first place? If May Or Cid is the cubi, or if May or Cid were replaced by a Cubi, they would HAVE to have know, the moment they saw Baby Abel with wings, that he would grow up to be a cubi. They would have to know it is inevitable that Abel's headwings would come in eventually, and bring the entire charade crashing down. Alexi made the mistake of forgetting to warn Dan that he was a incubus, but that was an accident. The situation with Abel's family would have to have been thought out in advance, as well as the contingency of Abel's cubi side finally beggining to kick in full swing. It just doesn't make sense that whoever is the cubi would just LET this problem happen. However, in all the senarios of Cid the cubi, May the cubi, Cid/May being replaced by a cubi, I think that if one of these HAS to happen, it will almost definatly be Cid being the cubi, and Amber will still have to come up with a good reason for why he would want to hide it like this.
Some food for thought while we're adding new theories...
We know that Abel's clan is nearly extinct, and that his Cubi parent(s) are no longer around during his time at SAIA. Up until this point, we've been operating under the assumption that the Cubi parent is SAIA trained, with full knowledge and command of all Cubi abilities. That's not necessarily the case. Abel's clan may have been so fractured that they don't even know about SAIA. His ancestors may have continued the line through Cubi-Being partnerships, and any premature death of a Cubi parent along the way would translate into a significant loss of racial knowledge. They may be genuinely ignorant about the details of Cubi trait inheritance or development.
In such a scenario, Abel's Cubi parent may have been living in mortal fear of discovery by Adventurers or townsfolk with pitchforks. For that matter, there might even be a state of denial regarding the possibility of Abel becoming a Cubi.
They're only wings, after all... We can't hide that, but it doesn't make him an Angel... He'll have a normal life, unlike mine...It's still difficult to support May being the Cubi parent, however. She would have recognized the headwings regardless, because she's old enough to have them herself. That she's still acting dumb now that Abel's are out strains credulity.
As for Cid... keep in mind that lies tend to grow with the telling. He may have quite innocently been hiding his Cubi nature when they got married. As the years went by it became more and more difficult to come clean, because the sense of betrayal at having been lied to for so long increases the longer you live the lie.
"Honey, I'm gay. You know how you thought I was out playing poker every Thursday for the past ten years? Well..." :U
"Honey, I'm actually a soul-sucking demon. You know how you thought I was off slaying monsters...?" :animesweat
It may not even be that he doesn't trust May. Perhaps such a revalation tore his own parents apart, and it was so traumatic that he doesn't want to risk breaking up his own family like that.
Quote
I don't know about you, but if I were to have freaking wings sticking out of my head because some stranger Incubus stole my dad's form and got yiffy wth my mom, thus turning ME into a cubi, I would almost certainly hold a grudge against any cubi that uses it's shapeshifting abilities to impersonate someone, if not the entire cubi race.
Oh, I dunno...
If I found out that my real dad had given me superpowers, magical talent, and near immortality, I might be inclined to adopt a rather different view from the one you describe.
:kittydevious
Abel is hardly anti-Cubi. His disregard for identity concealment may stem from reasons completely unrelated to a traumatic past. It could be vanity, for instance; we do know that he spends a lot of time on clothing and appearance.
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 02:15:53 PM
I find it very hard to believe that Alexsi could man the inn for probably something like 12+ hours a day and still find time to do the paperwork.
[...]
I think it was another corporation doing business as this corporation. But my point remains that just because it's JyCorp doesn't mean it's incorporated.
Geez... I don't know about Furrae, but on
this planet, a corporate entity can have as many trade names as it wants, but you cannot give your business a corporate identifier without being incorporated. Furthermore, once the corporation is set up and running, this "additional paperwork" burden consists of things that you would (or should) be doing anyway. For a one-man show, the only practical difference is that you submit taxes slightly more often. For a high cash flow business like a tavern/inn, a corporate structure can even make your accounting
easier.
QuoteAnother prosaic option that no one seems to have considered--what if there's a `cubi family in Cantiv wondering why their kid's headwings haven't come in yet? I can't imagine that the hospitals there are that scrupulous about this stuff. He's manila colored. He's got spots. He's obviously yours.
An interesting point, though it does make one wonder about the state of health care in a small town 400 years back. They may not even have a hospital, and it's a bit difficult to mix up babies if you go the midwife route. :animesweat
Quote from: Stygian on March 28, 2007, 03:35:14 PM
Who here did not notice the thing about the clan mark dissappearing if the 'cubus in question does not practice magic for an extended time period (where did you get that information, by the way?)? If that is indeed the case, and shapeshifting, being a natural ability, does not count as magic for a cubi, then wouldn't that just write off all the requirements for concealing or explaining it? And if that is true, is that not a point in favor of Cid being the 'cubi in hiding?
I doubt the clan mark ever disappears, but not practicing magic will prevent it from turning up in the first place (as is the case with Dan).
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 04:35:02 PM
If I found out that my real dad had given me superpowers, magical talent, and near immortality, I might be inclined to adopt a rather different view from the one you describe.
:kittydevious
Amen.
QuoteAbel is hardly anti-Cubi. His disregard for identity concealment may stem from reasons completely unrelated to a traumatic past. It could be vanity, for instance; we do know that he spends a lot of time on clothing and appearance.
Possible, but his reaction to being forced to become Merlitz was rather acute. It wasn't disdain, which is what I'd expect from vanity, it was more like fury. See 695, 696 (I recorded several takes of Merbel throwing them out - in some of them he was almost crying. That's just my reading though.)
Ultimately he only did it because the alternative was leaving Dan alone with a dragon who'd been sent to kill him (in Abel's PoV).
QuoteAn interesting point, though it does make one wonder about the state of health care in a small town 400 years back. They may not even have a hospital, and it's a bit difficult to mix up babies if you go the midwife route.
They've got some kind of medical establishment, see Devin's memories. It might be more of an Ultima 7 hospital (i.e. a wooden shack with beds in it) but there y'go.
I for one am still able to accept the fact that both of Abel's parents may be perfectly normal.
And just through either random Mutant factor, or Magic being magic. Abel was born the way he was.
Unless it's been mentioned before.... there's also both of them being cubi possibilities, with both of them disguising it from the other.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 02:30:09 AM
Theory #4: Cid was cursed with a non-random, structured spell specifically designed to make him have a Cubi child.
This one just bothers me. If any spell could even do that, why would he not tell May about it, as to prepare her for what her own son is going to be?
Verdict: Probably impossible.
If he knew in the first place, would he tell them? How do you tell some one that kind of thing?
Would he have made the connection? It was mentioned somewhere that creatures can turn somebody to another species with magic.
I don't think we can discount anything as impossible, unlikely given the story structure and our knowledge of it, but not impossible.
Plus were talking about (fictional) magic, here for crying out loud, how can we know its limits?
Ultimately its up to the author/artist Amber, if she really wanted to she could say the entire comic run so far was a dream by a flying sheep and we would have no power to change that.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 04:35:02 PM
If I found out that my real dad had given me superpowers, magical talent, and near immortality, I might be inclined to adopt a rather different view from the one you describe.
:kittydevious
You're missing the point Tezkat. Seriously, how would you feel if someone used their natural shapshifting to impersonate your dad in order to @#!& around with your mom? No matter what abilities I gain from that, I would still hate ANYONE who uses a natural ability like that. And I most definatly would not want to do that myself, either. Just like Abel, that is where I would set my standards.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 03:11:40 PM
Like most of the happier theories it doesn't explain Abel's detestation of shapeshifting though. I have a strong feeling it's tied in with his heritage - if it was something he'd picked up during SAIA (almost said 'Uni') it's likely they would have been able to talk him out of it, so I'm thinking it was burned into him before he attended.
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 05:04:06 PM
his reaction to being forced to become Merlitz was rather acute. It wasn't disdain, which is what I'd expect from vanity, it was more like fury. See 695, 696 (I recorded several takes of Merbel throwing them out - in some of them he was almost crying. That's just my reading though.)
Ultimately he only did it because the alternative was leaving Dan alone with a dragon who'd been sent to kill him (in Abel's PoV).
Tapewolf makes a perfectly good point point right there.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 04:35:02 PM
As for Cid... keep in mind that lies tend to grow with the telling. He may have quite innocently been hiding his Cubi nature when they got married. As the years went by it became more and more difficult to come clean, because the sense of betrayal at having been lied to for so long increases the longer you live the lie.
It may not even be that he doesn't trust May. Perhaps such a revalation tore his own parents apart, and it was so traumatic that he doesn't want to risk breaking up his own family like that.
That is a good point, though.
At this time, I think there are only two likely(and possible) theories.
1: Cid is the cubi.
2: Some Incubus tricked May
ASSUMING, not asserting, that these are the only two options, one of two senarios will play out once Cid walks into the room in the next update that will dictate which theory is true.
Senario 1: He expresses shock and surprise, genuinely not knowing what the hell is going on. In that case I belive that it is Theory 2 that must be correct.
Senario 2: At first he seems surprised, but then deflates as he realizes what has happend. Then he finally reveals himself as an Incubus to May and Abel, thus proving Theory 1.
well there is the possibility that Cid was turned into a cubi on one of his many adventures
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum1871.htm#ref326
or that abel was given backwings naturally but while growing up was unknowingly turned into a cubi while in Zvinth
there is also the whole appearance issue
As far as I know most (if not all) persons from a being/creature relationship (cubi or otherwise) tend to look more like the being parent than the cibi one. It's more likely that Cid is the cubi parent (if there is one) rather than it being May.
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 28, 2007, 03:01:08 PMMay could have seen that Abel was sporting a Tatoo, But she was too shock by that fact alone to Say That It looks the same as your father's.
Or...she might have almost said, ``Your dad has a Mad fold-in version of that tattoo on his...nevermind!''
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 28, 2007, 03:01:08 PMAs for Cid (or May) not saying anything about Abel growing head wing: 1) the parent figures that he or she will be there for Abel when it happens... 2) and saying anything about Cubi is going to expose the LIE...
I can understand why Cid or May might want to keep that from Abel (as a young kid, he might not be good at keeping secrets), but keeping that from the other spouse doesn't make a lot of sense. So both Cid and May should know the truth, if one of them does. Once Abel goes through cuberty, however, they would have no reason to keep it from him. Maybe they're keeping it from Hennya?
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 03:11:40 PMLike most of the happier theories it doesn't explain Abel's detestation of shapeshifting though. I have a strong feeling it's tied in with his heritage - if it was something he'd picked up during SAIA (almost said 'Uni') it's likely they would have been able to talk him out of it, so I'm thinking it was burned into him before he attended.
Why would they have any desire to talk Abel out of his fear of shapeshifting? Not that they wouldn't, just that I'm not sure if there's any good reason for them to do that.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 04:35:02 PMThey may be genuinely ignorant about the details of Cubi trait inheritance or development.
I tried to say this before, but I don't think it came out as well as you phrased it.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 04:35:02 PMIt may not even be that he doesn't trust May. Perhaps such a revalation tore his own parents apart
Or his previous marriage(s).
Quote from: Tezkat on March 28, 2007, 04:35:02 PMGeez... I don't know about Furrae, but on this planet, a corporate entity can have as many trade names as it wants, but you cannot give your business a corporate identifier without being incorporated. Furthermore, once the corporation is set up and running, this "additional paperwork" burden consists of things that you would (or should) be doing anyway. For a one-man show, the only practical difference is that you submit taxes slightly more often. For a high cash flow business like a tavern/inn, a corporate structure can even make your accounting easier.
Yeah. I don't have occasion to study much on corporations. They're in the Uncanny Valley--too close to humans for comfort, so I tend not to seek out information on them.
I think you're right about Inc., PLC, LLP, & al., but when the word is part of the name, I'm not so sure. Jy, Corp. would certainly need to be incorporated to use that identifier. But I think JyCorp (or even Jy-Corp) might be OK, by extension of the corps metaphor. People could plead ignorance and claim that they thought corp was the singular.
(on a tangent, I wonder if early-90's band Murder, Inc. was incorporated. Pseudonyms aren't the same as DBAs, but the band probably formed a partnership to administer the rights, and I'd think the partnership would have borne the same name)
Maybe one of Abel's ancestors was a cubi and the gene for being a cubi was passed down to him
Superluser, that wasnt what tapewolf was trying to say. He meant that Abel hates cubi who use their shapeshifting to IMPERSONATE someone else, he has no fear of shapeshifting. And like said, if the theory of an Incubus tricking May is true, then that right there would be reason enough to hate impersonators.
And sparks, if you could read, you would know that the ancestry theory has already been brought up, but no one can come to a good conclusion due to how much that is NOT known about how it works, Amber has yet to properly explain.
How do we know that Cid and May are not a happily married pair of Cubi ? As Abel says , it would only be a cubi of extreme power or too much ego , not to disguise the various traits of the Cubi in public . Abel was too small to understand this as a kid , but Cid as a Cubi adventurer could be a goer , living happily with May .
Sorry about this kaskar, but...
Please try using something called a brain before posting. If Cid and May were both cubi, then all their interactions make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Especially May. If they were both cubi, then what the hell is the point of both of them pretending they arn't? If you would actually READ the comic, both Cid and especially May talk as if they don't know that their son is also going to grow up as a cubi, which they probably don't. Read this entire thread, and all the theories, and you will know why.
and just cuz i can't stop saying it...
Cid being the cubi and an Incubus tricking May are still the most likely theories, though I still hold for Incubus tricking May as the more likely.
Uh, hello? They could be HIDING IT FROM EACH OTHER?
"sorry about this techmaster, but... please try using something called a brain before posting."
Seriously. All i've seen you do so far is boss people around, try to run the forum by telling everyone where to go and redirecting people as if you've been here since day one, insulting kaskar, and finally trying to push your own theories on people, shooting down or ignoring ones that have equal or greater likeliness...
Just... Stop being what half the people on the forum think I already am.
soulfire, seriously, think about it. if they both happen to be cubi, then in May's case, why is she still playing @#!%ing dumb even though her son's headwings have come in? It. Makes. No. Sense.
And have i been acting the way you say? if so, I do apologize to all who feel that way. I will try to reveiw my posts more carefully in the future.
Though i thought i was ok, right up until kaskar. And yes, I will say I'm sorry, kaskar. My bad.
COMEDY RELIEF!!
:breaks out into dance number: :ipod
I can't handle the suspense!!! :eager D: HURRY UP SATURDAY!!!
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 09:40:28 PMSuperluser, that wasnt what tapewolf was trying to say. He meant that Abel hates cubi who use their shapeshifting to IMPERSONATE someone else, he has no fear of shapeshifting.
1.) I think I know what TW was trying to say. And that is indeed what he said.
2.) You misinterpreted my comments. I meant that Abel has an issue with changing base forms. Perhaps `fear' isn't the best term for it--more akin to fear of success or Erica Jong's Fear of Flying.
3.) Abel not only dislikes others who shapeshift to assume different identities, but also seems to have issues about doing it himself (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_697.php).
4.) Abel obviously has no problems with minor shapeshifting.
Here's a thought, though. What if Cid is an ungulate incubus--specifically Kria's instructor? I said before that that's kinda stupid, because Cid and Kria wouldn't have talked the way they did if Kria knew that Abel was Cid's.
But! If Cid were disguised, then maybe the conversation would have happened that way. And if Cid were disguised, then Abel would probably get pissed off that his own dad tried to have him killed.
This whole thing may play out that Kria visits the Rewanz family per her previous statements, and finds Cid, whom she has no idea is leading a double life. Cid plays it coy and curious at first, then when Kria mentions that she was involved in the fight, he gets visibly upset, per his wont. Then a double entendre. Something like the following:
Kria: It's a good thing that I was there.
Cid: You were there? What would a creature be doing in the middle of a creature-being fight? Explain yourself!
Kria: I was just going to Cantiv to talk to Cindy's parents about creature-being relations. I didn't know that I'd have to take care of Abel.
Cid: Take care of Abel? Take care of Abel? I knew it! You b*tch!
May, Kria, Hennya and Abel: What?
[Cid pretends to attack Kria. Everybody tries to pull him off.]
Kria: Look, Cid. You've obviously had a rough day. I should get going. I'll be at the school tomorrow. If you want to make an appointment to discuss this *calmly*--
Cid: I told you Kria, your weak-heartedness will be your undoing.
Kria: Professor?
Finding out that your dad was really an ungulate in disguise who tried to kill you--not even because he hated you, but simply because it was the proper thing to do for the assignment--might just put you off shifting base forms.
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 09:08:48 PM
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 28, 2007, 03:01:08 PMMay could have seen that Abel was sporting a Tattoo, But she was too shock by that fact alone to Say That It looks the same as your father's.
Or...she might have almost said, ``Your dad has a Mad fold-in version of that tattoo on his...nevermind!''
That would only be If May could Think clearly though her shock of Abel even have a Tattoo in the first place..and the second shock, Abel is getting drunk enough to unable to remember some nights. (I wish your read what I wrote before this) That alone is some mother's worst nightmares.
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 09:08:48 PM
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 28, 2007, 03:01:08 PMAs for Cid (or May) not saying anything about Abel growing head wing: 1) the parent figures that he or she will be there for Abel when it happens... 2) and saying anything about Cubi is going to expose the LIE...
I can understand why Cid or May might want to keep that from Abel (as a young kid, he might not be good at keeping secrets), but keeping that from the other spouse doesn't make a lot of sense. So both Cid and May should know the truth, if one of them does. Once Abel goes through cuberty, however, they would have no reason to keep it from him. Maybe they're keeping it from Hennya?
If Cid has been LYING to May all this time, why would May think that Cid is not Cid...He doesn't shapeshift in first of her, and doesn't dreamsurf in her dreams. Keeping a secret from a trusting spouse is easy if you are not sneaking around or trying to live a double life. Cid is living one life as a "Being" with May as his wife. And If Cid does mindread May, it can be to chalk up to "knowing" your wife completely. Long married couples will talk in incomplete sentences and They know exactly what they are saying to each other, but the rest of us would be clueless. Given a Cubi's powers, Cid could pull this off easily and May would be clueless to Cid true nature.
PBH
BTW: I bet that is Cid's surprize or good news, he met up with Kria...and they both walk in the door.
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 10:53:35 PM
3.) Abel not only dislikes others who shapeshift to assume different identities, but also seems to have issues about doing it himself (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_697.php).
4.) Abel obviously has no problems with minor shapeshifting.
I thought those two things were screamingly obvious, which is why I didnt add them into what i originally said. Apparently I was mistaken. Now i know i must add every single little detail when i say something.
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 10:53:35 PM
Here's a thought, though. What if Cid is an ungulate incubus--specifically Kria's instructor? I said before that that's kinda stupid, because Cid and Kria wouldn't have talked the way they did if Kria knew that Abel was Cid's.
But! If Cid were disguised, then maybe the conversation would have happened that way. And if Cid were disguised, then Abel would probably get pissed off that his own dad tried to have him killed.
This whole thing may play out that Kria visits the Rewanz family per her previous statements, and finds Cid, whom she has no idea is leading a double life. Cid plays it coy and curious at first, then when Kria mentions that she was involved in the fight, he gets visibly upset, per his wont. Then a double entendre. Something like the following:
Kria: It's a good thing that I was there.
Cid: You were there? What would a creature be doing in the middle of a creature-being fight? Explain yourself!
Kria: I was just going to Cantiv to talk to Cindy's parents about creature-being relations. I didn't know that I'd have to take care of Abel.
Cid: Take care of Abel? Take care of Abel? I knew it! You b*tch!
May, Kria, Hennya and Abel: What?
[Cid pretends to attack Kria. Everybody tries to pull him off.]
Kria: Look, Cid. You've obviously had a rough day. I should get going. I'll be at the school tomorrow. If you want to make an appointment to discuss this *calmly*--
Cid: I told you Kria, your weak-heartedness will be your undoing.
Kria: Professor?
Finding out that your dad was really an ungulate in disguise who tried to kill you--not even because he hated you, but simply because it was the proper thing to do for the assignment--might just put you off shifting base forms.
Hmmmmmm..... thats.... actually an interesting theory. Kudos to you.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 11:04:45 PMI thought those two things were screamingly obvious, which is why I didnt add them into what i originally said. Apparently I was mistaken. Now i know i must add every single little detail when i say something.
I would have thought those two things were blindingly obvious to everyone, but you seemed to have trouble understanding what I was saying, and since you joined the forum two days ago, I couldn't be sure that *you* knew that.
P.S. (I'd usually PM this stuff, but since I've already got your attention) You might want to stop double-posting, and start using the modify button, instead. Most people on the forum probably just find it annoying, but the moderators might have other, more rule-based objections.
I'll leave interpretation of the rules to the mods, though.
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 28, 2007, 10:59:22 PMQuote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 09:08:48 PMQuote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 28, 2007, 03:01:08 PMMay could have seen that Abel was sporting a Tattoo, But she was too shock by that fact alone to Say That It looks the same as your father's.
Or...she might have almost said, ``Your dad has a Mad fold-in version of that tattoo on his...nevermind!''
That would only be If May could Think clearly though her shock of Abel even have a Tattoo in the first place..and the second shock, Abel is getting drunk enough to unable to remember some nights. (I wish your read what I wrote before this) That alone is some mother's worst nightmares.
I did read that. But she didn't know that Abel got blotto when she first saw the mark. She certainly had enough time to recognize the shape, if it were familiar. She should be thinking at least that clearly.
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 28, 2007, 03:01:08 PMIf Cid has been LYING to May all this time, why would May think that Cid is not Cid
Well, my point is that Cid might not have been lying to May (*). Maybe they're just lying to Abel. They both know that Cid is an incubus, and they don't care.
(*) This is predicated on the Cid is an incubus theory. It would not work on the Cid was replaced by an impostor theory, but you didn't specify which theory.
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 11:17:36 PM
P.S. (I'd usually PM this stuff, but since I've already got your attention) You might want to stop double-posting, and start using the modify button, instead. Most people on the forum probably just find it annoying, but the moderators might have other, more rule-based objections.
I KNEW i should have done an apology on that double post...but i decided not to. All i did was make a mistake dammit. I did not mean to double-post. now I REALLY know i have to write every single little detail into everything i do. Damn, that is annoying.
Ok, sorry to everyone reading this. Enough about mistakes and the humans who naturally make them. Does anyone else want to bring up a theory or a point to a theory? I am eager to advance this thread.
Everyone seems to forget that Abel's story is set around 400 years in the past . 25 years ago , Destina may have been lynched , except for the action of Edward . Dan seems slightly upset with his new status of one of the Cubi race . However , he has the support at Lost Lake that he needs . 400 years ago, with one or both of the partners in the marriage being a cubi , secrecy would be of real importance . As May said " life can be so cruel " . Thrown out and discriminated against in a being town , they go to Zvinth . Marks can be easily hidden ( Abel as Merlitz ) , actions could almost be role playing , (as with Azlan but in a more extreme way ) As Abel said , the cubi must be all powerfull or have such an inflated ego , not to hide their wings and other in public . Abel was a small child , before his 2nd wings when we started , and he grew up . Can the family still emotionally hold together ? Why the crack by Henna about reading how Cubi were mean buggers , ate babies , and other boogy man stuff . I wonder ?
Quote from: kaskar on March 29, 2007, 03:27:58 AM
Everyone seems to forget that Abel's story is set around 400 years in the past . 25 years ago , Destina may have been lynched , except for the action of Edward . Dan seems slightly upset with his new status of one of the Cubi race . However , he has the support at Lost Lake that he needs . 400 years ago, with one or both of the partners in the marriage being a cubi , secrecy would be of real importance . As May said " life can be so cruel " . Thrown out and discriminated against in a being town , they go to Zvinth . Marks can be easily hidden ( Abel as Merlitz ) , actions could almost be role playing , (as with Azlan but in a more extreme way ) As Abel said , the cubi must be all powerfull or have such an inflated ego , not to hide their wings and other in public . Abel was a small child , before his 2nd wings when we started , and he grew up . Can the family still emotionally hold together ? Why the crack by Henna about reading how Cubi were mean buggers , ate babies , and other boogy man stuff . I wonder ?
Possible, but I see an alternate scenario. Perhaps, in the past of Furrae, people, aside from in some small backwaters of the world, are in a golden age of civilization. The creatures, in their many kinds, are generally accepted, even respected, members of the community. Aside from a few hate mongers, society accepts the various odd variations. The rarer variation, people know little about, and some fear of the unknown may give rise to stories, especially in communities where they are not found. Some time in the intervening four hundred years, some event or series of events ended or retarded this golden age, and tolerance was lost.
I imagine that furrae could very well have had a society like that, similar to our own. Cubi would be as rare in that society as albino people are in our society. Many people know OF them, and fear them, but few know about them. Now albinos are not as potentially sinister in nature as cubi are, but there was a time when someone who was different in such a way was shunned, cast out, hunted. Perhaps even some event brought down the ire of the people on the cubi, like the albino uprising of 2013 will in human society, and... wait... you aren't supposed to know about that. *activates MIB style memory erasure flash*
Anyway, my point is, we don't know much about furrae society in Abel's time beyond what's presented in the comic, and half the time is spent in a small backwater village, and the other half in the erudite surroundings of apparently decent public education. These two things are hardly a measure of society.
um... what were we talking about again? Abel's heritage?
I think we're going to be finding out in about a week, but I would say the Cid as a cubi and the Cid cuckolded by a cubi theories are the most plausible to me. *shrug* I don't have much to say on that. (hard to believe, no? :animesweat )
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 09:08:48 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 03:11:40 PMLike most of the happier theories it doesn't explain Abel's detestation of shapeshifting though. I have a strong feeling it's tied in with his heritage - if it was something he'd picked up during SAIA (almost said 'Uni') it's likely they would have been able to talk him out of it, so I'm thinking it was burned into him before he attended.
Why would they have any desire to talk Abel out of his fear of shapeshifting? Not that they wouldn't, just that I'm not sure if there's any good reason for them to do that.
Depends what the aim of SAIA is, really. If I was training young 'cubi to survive in a world that wants them dead, I'd try to ensure they could use every trick available to them. Someone who won't is going to be at a disadvantage and masquerading is likely to be an entire branch of study that Abel has shut himself off from.
In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that if SAIA
itself caused the fear, they'd probably provide counselling to prevent it affecting his studies.
Remember the depression and the goth thing? Fa'Lina talked him out of that, so I'm thinking the only reason they haven't stopped the shapeshifting hangup is because they can't. Maybe getting him to do cosmetic changes was the best they could manage.
Basically if it happened during the course, they could have nipped it in the bud and it wouldn't be as deeply-ingrained as if it affected the fabric of his childhood.
[You know this thread is getting to you when you dream that Abel's father was Mab.]
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 29, 2007, 04:35:14 AM
[You know this thread is getting to you when you dream that Abel's father was Mab.]
... I knew Fae were powerful, but that's ridiculous...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 29, 2007, 04:51:58 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 29, 2007, 04:35:14 AM
[You know this thread is getting to you when you dream that Abel's father was Mab.]
... I knew Fae were powerful, but that's ridiculous...
??? When Did this rumor started? ???
I can see if Cid or some cubi could be "hiding" so good that even they can sometime forgot what they are...or They could be hiding so much that they would hide their true nature from even their spouses. Remember in May's lifetime, There is discrimination and what amounts to open warfare in the wilds between Creatures and Beings.
Charline is Abel's mother AND father! ZOMG!! Who'd have ever suspected that! ;)
It's pointless to ponder the question of Abel's cubi heritage until the truth is finally revealed. Amber will make sure none of our specs are correct! She already knows what we're thinking! D:
Quote from: Alondro on March 29, 2007, 09:02:56 AM
She already knows what we're thinking! D:
... she knows when we've been bad or good, so we better be good, for goodness sake?
Quote from: kaskar on March 29, 2007, 03:27:58 AMWhy the crack by Henna about reading how Cubi were mean buggers , ate babies
Waitaminnit.
All of Devin's siblings were murdered as babies, right? I wonder if the two are related.
Quote from: Reese Tora on March 29, 2007, 03:59:17 AMNow albinos are not as potentially sinister in nature as cubi are
Albinos are actually quite often portrayed as sinister in film and literature. So much so that there's an entire article about it at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albinism_in_popular_culture).
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 29, 2007, 04:35:14 AMDepends what the aim of SAIA is, really. If I was training young 'cubi to survive in a world that wants them dead, I'd try to ensure they could use every trick available to them. Someone who won't is going to be at a disadvantage and masquerading is likely to be an entire branch of study that Abel has shut himself off from.
In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that if SAIA itself caused the fear, they'd probably provide counselling to prevent it affecting his studies.
I'm not sure that taking a different identity or doing anything more than hiding wings is really a necessity. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it were against some religious beliefs, and SAIA doesn't want to try to change it.
You're nearly there, but I'm still not convinced.
Quote from: kaskar on March 29, 2007, 03:27:58 AM
Why the crack by Henna about reading how Cubi were mean buggers , ate babies , and other boogy man stuff . I wonder ?
I don't think that was a "crack", I think she thinks she is right. Contrayry to what someone said about the "golden age" of tolerance being during Abel's time, I think that is entirely incorrect. It seems that in Furrae, the farther back you go, the less tolerant and the more
misinformed the general public gets, to the point where
even other creatures such as Hennya the Mythos don't really know what they're talking about, even though they think they do. Kinda like how everyone thought the world was flat. They thought they knew what they were talking about, but they didnt.
Anywho, everyone does keep comeing up with good, plausible points as to why Cid/May would hide being a cubi, but this still has to be answered:
There is no possible way that I can think of that they wouldn't know their son would ruin the charade eventually, once they saw his backwings as a baby. Someone said, "what if Cid never went to SAIA and never learned about how cubi grow up?". Well, as far as headwings go, all cubi grow up in almost exactly the same way. So Cid's headwings (assuming he even has them) must have appeared at around the same time in his life as Abel's. If I was Cid, and was never educated that there were other ways odf a cubi growing up (which there arn't), I would assume that my kid is going to grow up in the exact same way as I did, and expect the headwings. So here is the question; Why let May find out the way she has, instead of breaking it to her himself, when almost anything he says has to be a better way of finding out?
ohhhhhh.......crap........ I just thought of something. We all know that there is no such thing as a partial cubi, right? you are fully a cubi or you arn't at all. But even during Dan's time, when more knowlegde is common, HE still didn't know that. So if you rewind 400 years to Abel's time when people know even less....... ohhh crapcrapcrap.......
Quote from: superluser on March 29, 2007, 09:33:49 AM
Quote from: kaskar on March 29, 2007, 03:27:58 AMWhy the crack by Henna about reading how Cubi were mean buggers , ate babies
All of Devin's siblings were murdered as babies, right? I wonder if the two are related.
That
would explain why his mother was totally gaga.
Quote
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 29, 2007, 04:35:14 AMIn a nutshell, what I'm saying is that if SAIA itself caused the fear, they'd probably provide counselling to prevent it affecting his studies.
I'm not sure that taking a different identity or doing anything more than hiding wings is really a necessity. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it were against some religious beliefs, and SAIA doesn't want to try to change it.
You're nearly there, but I'm still not convinced.
Yes. But on the flipside, if I sent my perfectly normal 'Cubi son to SAIA when his headwings came in, and when he came back he was afraid of shapeshifting I would have a few very nasty words to say to Fa'Lina, e.g. "What have you done to my son, you crazy old hag?"
Which ultimately reinforces my point that if SAIA traumatised Abel (or any other student) about shapeshifting, it would be in their interests to fix it ASAP. Whereas I think we agree that if Abel (or any other student) went into SAIA with a hangup about shapeshifting they wouldn't be quite so adamant about curing it at any cost, particularly if, as you say, it's some kind of religious belief.
Which might be the case for Abel, but since he doesn't even know he
can yet, is somewhat improbable. :P
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 29, 2007, 10:10:51 AM
Quote from: superluser on March 29, 2007, 09:33:49 AM
Quote from: kaskar on March 29, 2007, 03:27:58 AMWhy the crack by Henna about reading how Cubi were mean buggers , ate babies
All of Devin's siblings were murdered as babies, right? I wonder if the two are related.
That would explain why his mother was totally gaga.
But I thought Devin's mom killed them... :erk Plus, that was probably in a different town...
O BTW, just thinking about all the clan mark hiding, I just remembered reading in the wiku-wiki that cubi
can't hide their marks through shapeshifting. No matter what form they take, the mark will still be there...Here it is on the Cubi (http://dmfa.wikia.com/wiki/Cubi) page under Clans, Magic, and Training.
Ok, back to my rabid belief that May is the Cubi. Couldn't it be that she had never seen her clan's marking because maybe her Cubi parent (or parents) only themselves knew basic shapeshifting, and that's all they taught her? Also, what we may see as her not knowing why Abel had headwings could be utter shock. Maybe she believed that Abel would only be half cubi because she herself knew so little about being Cubi. It's not like her clan would've had big conferences or something.
Also, maybe Abel's distaste for a cubi impersonating someone else comes from an event that hasn't happened yet...
Quote from: superluser on March 29, 2007, 09:33:49 AM
Quote from: kaskar on March 29, 2007, 03:27:58 AMWhy the crack by Henna about reading how Cubi were mean buggers , ate babies
Waitaminnit.
All of Devin's siblings were murdered as babies, right? I wonder if the two are related.
I very much doubt it... It sounded like she was just making it up. Just look at the last thing she said about them... Even May believed Hennya was kidding around, and she didn't protest that she was serious.
(Sorry if someone posted soemthing like this already. n.n;)
I sorta agree with the last one, what is May Slept with a Cubi.
Say Sid was gone for one night, or even for months, and she did sleep with a cubi?
Who said it had to change into Sid? I mean she could of slept with him willingly, whether its the cubi charm, or whether she even knew if he was cubi or not.
It seems a bit shallow(okay, Really shallow), but it explain why the village thought she was a wh*re. >.>;
Did that make a any sence? n.n;
Perhaps the event that makes Abel hate impersonators hasn't happened yet, but this theory
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 10:53:35 PM
Here's a thought, though. What if Cid is an ungulate incubus--specifically Kria's instructor? I said before that that's kinda stupid, because Cid and Kria wouldn't have talked the way they did if Kria knew that Abel was Cid's.
But! If Cid were disguised, then maybe the conversation would have happened that way. And if Cid were disguised, then Abel would probably get pissed off that his own dad tried to have him killed.
This whole thing may play out that Kria visits the Rewanz family per her previous statements, and finds Cid, whom she has no idea is leading a double life. Cid plays it coy and curious at first, then when Kria mentions that she was involved in the fight, he gets visibly upset, per his wont. Then a double entendre. Something like the following:
Kria: It's a good thing that I was there.
Cid: You were there? What would a creature be doing in the middle of a creature-being fight? Explain yourself!
Kria: I was just going to Cantiv to talk to Cindy's parents about creature-being relations. I didn't know that I'd have to take care of Abel.
Cid: Take care of Abel? Take care of Abel? I knew it! You b*tch!
May, Kria, Hennya and Abel: What?
[Cid pretends to attack Kria. Everybody tries to pull him off.]
Kria: Look, Cid. You've obviously had a rough day. I should get going. I'll be at the school tomorrow. If you want to make an appointment to discuss this *calmly*--
Cid: I told you Kria, your weak-heartedness will be your undoing.
Kria: Professor?
Finding out that your dad was really an ungulate in disguise who tried to kill you--not even because he hated you, but simply because it was the proper thing to do for the assignment--might just put you off shifting base forms.
And the theory that an Incubus tricked May conviniently provide an event already. Though if neither of these are used, then there will be a future event. Unless someone can come up with another senario that fits into what has already been written in the comics.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 02:30:09 AM
Theory #8: An Incubus tricked May.
The last one, and just F.Y.I. i never inteded this one to be the end-all answer, it just makes the most sense. Cid is out on one of his many long adventures. May is asleep, dreaming about him. An Incubus chances by, enters May's mind, and finds about Cid. Incubus takes Cid's form and has a nice night with May, probably making her think she is still asleep. Cid finally returns, and neither of them know the difference, even when May turns out pregnant, because genreally, couples don't lead sexually inert marriges. And with Cid constantly being gone, they probably do it as often as they can (Until Able was born, and Cid gave up adventuring). Backing up a bit, hell, the Incubus doesnt even need for Cid to be on an adventure, Cid could just be gone in town for just one night and the incubus could pull it off. And there isn't the "hide the mark" problem, because the Incubus would only have to try to hide it for one night, not for months or years on end. Easily doable.
Verdict: Yes, I would have to say this is probably the only answer.
Yes, Homicidal-Kitten, this theory has been suggested. And zealously supported.
Dammit i double posted again. Shoot.
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 29, 2007, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 29, 2007, 10:10:51 AM
That would explain why his mother was totally gaga.
But I thought Devin's mom killed them... :erk Plus, that was probably in a different town...
He might have forced her to do it. Or made her believe she had. And it was most likely the same town that Abel lived in as a kid. This theory is derived from the one in which Abel's 'Cubi father was also Devin's father and he left because his Being wife (i.e. Devin's mother) seemed incapable for having a Creature son for some reason. So he had one by May (either because he is Cid or because he pretended to be Cid for a one-night-stand)
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 29, 2007, 11:49:39 AM
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 02:30:09 AM
Theory #8: An Incubus tricked May.
The last one, and just F.Y.I. i never inteded this one to be the end-all answer, it just makes the most sense. Cid is out on one of his many long adventures. May is asleep, dreaming about him. An Incubus chances by, enters May's mind, and finds about Cid. Incubus takes Cid's form and has a nice night with May, probably making her think she is still asleep. Cid finally returns, and neither of them know the difference, even when May turns out pregnant, because genreally, couples don't lead sexually inert marriges. And with Cid constantly being gone, they probably do it as often as they can (Until Able was born, and Cid gave up adventuring). Backing up a bit, hell, the Incubus doesnt even need for Cid to be on an adventure, Cid could just be gone in town for just one night and the incubus could pull it off. And there isn't the "hide the mark" problem, because the Incubus would only have to try to hide it for one night, not for months or years on end. Easily doable.
Verdict: Yes, I would have to say this is probably the only answer.
Yes, Homicidal-Kitten, this theory has been suggested. And zealously supported.
Dammit i double posted again. Shoot.
Thats What I meant "I agree with the last one" just a little different with the, maybe she was was aware she was cheating, but she didn't know it was with a cubi?
NUmber 8 was the last one right? o.o;
Quote from: Homicidal_Kitten on March 29, 2007, 11:53:17 AM
Thats What I meant "I agree with the last one" just a little different with the, maybe she was was aware she was cheating, but she didn't know it was with a cubi?
Ah. I missed that. My apologies, Homicidal.
Yes, i suppose that is possible.
Quote from: Homicidal_Kitten on March 29, 2007, 11:47:25 AM
(Sorry if someone posted something like this already. n.n;)
I sorta agree with the last one, what is May Slept with a Cubi.
Say Sid was gone for one night, or even for months, and she did sleep with a cubi?
Who said it had to change into Sid? I mean she could of slept with him willingly, whether its the cubi charm, or whether she even knew if he was cubi or not.
It seems a bit shallow(okay, Really shallow), but it explain why the village thought she was a wh*re. >.>;
Did that make a any sense? n.n;
Yes, but May doesn't think or know she slept with anyone but Cid. Given May beating of Poor Sally, the headmaster at Abel's school. Yet, the townsfolk, or those who gossip had either 1) Did the math and Cid was away Nine months before Abel was born.
or
2) Seeing that Abel has wings and that Cid and May are "Beings", some people think the worst. So, May had to have slept with a Creature somewhere, when Cid was away. (This is the most likely scenario, given Cid having to explain to May about how high Magic can taint an Adventurer and his/her offspring.)
PBH
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 28, 2007, 05:04:06 PM
Possible, but his reaction to being forced to become Merlitz was rather acute. It wasn't disdain, which is what I'd expect from vanity, it was more like fury. See 695, 696 (I recorded several takes of Merbel throwing them out - in some of them he was almost crying. That's just my reading though.)
Ultimately he only did it because the alternative was leaving Dan alone with a dragon who'd been sent to kill him (in Abel's PoV).
He could just have been pissed off about "losing" to the Dragon. Or being forced to do something he didn't want to do.
Quote
They've got some kind of medical establishment, see Devin's memories. It might be more of an Ultima 7 hospital (i.e. a wooden shack with beds in it) but there y'go.
Funny... maybe it was just the warm sepia tones and 19th century fashions, but that felt homier to me. Doctors making house calls, live-in nurse looking after a sick wife... Devin's family certainly looked like they could afford such care.
Quote from: MT Hazard on March 28, 2007, 06:19:54 PM
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 02:30:09 AM
Theory #4: Cid was cursed with a non-random, structured spell specifically designed to make him have a Cubi child.
This one just bothers me. If any spell could even do that, why would he not tell May about it, as to prepare her for what her own son is going to be?
Verdict: Probably impossible.
If he knew in the first place, would he tell them? How do you tell some one that kind of thing?
Would he have made the connection? It was mentioned somewhere that creatures can turn somebody to another species with magic.
I don't think we can discount anything as impossible, unlikely given the story structure and our knowledge of it, but not impossible.
Plus were talking about (fictional) magic, here for crying out loud, how can we know its limits?
We don't know anything about the mechanism for magical corruption of the old family jewels. It could be the type of thing in which magical "radiation" causes random mutations which affect the offspring of Adventurers and others who work closely with magical effects. Creating a Cubi by accident would be virtually impossible.
What if, however, the corrupting magical energies were tied to a specific Creature? What if a Succubus left a piece of her aura behind after an encounter with Cid, allowing him to continue her line by proxy when he had a child? Obviously, this scenario can't be common--otherwise we'd have little Cubi running around whenever Cubi victims survived--but it's not inconceivable, nor entirely without precedent. It doesn't even have to be a deliberate enchantment; it could be a rare side effect of Cubi powers.
We do know that Cubification of Beings is possible. The non-canon version involves evil doctors with large needles, but Amber has been silent on how the official version might work. There may even be multiple paths to Cubification.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on March 28, 2007, 07:37:34 PM
You're missing the point Tezkat. Seriously, how would you feel if someone used their natural shapshifting to impersonate your dad in order to @#!& around with your mom? No matter what abilities I gain from that, I would still hate ANYONE who uses a natural ability like that. And I most definatly would not want to do that myself, either. Just like Abel, that is where I would set my standards.
I'm afraid that that would depend entirely on how much I liked my first dad. :animesweat
How would you react if, say, you found out that your real father is actually some rich movie star? Your mom was kinda drunk the night you were conceived and doesn't remember much about it. Since she was happily married soon after with a baby on the way, she never questioned that her fiancé/husband might not be the father. Nonetheless, genetic testing proves paternity beyond a doubt, and you always knew you were way more handsome than your dad.
"How dare this gorgeous millionaire take advantage of my mom while she was not in full control of her faculties! All men are rapists! I hate men!" >(
or
"Hot damn! My dad's a movie star! And he wants me in his next film!" :boogie
Anger, denial, etc. are all valid and perfectly understandable reactions, but the healthiest long term solution is to accept what happened and move on.
Quote from: superluser on March 28, 2007, 09:08:48 PM
Yeah. I don't have occasion to study much on corporations. They're in the Uncanny Valley--too close to humans for comfort, so I tend not to seek out information on them.
Ya know... this must be the first time I've encountered someone who avoids corporations because they're too
human.
:mowcookie
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 29, 2007, 10:10:51 AM
Yes. But on the flipside, if I sent my perfectly normal 'Cubi son to SAIA when his headwings came in, and when he came back he was afraid of shapeshifting I would have a few very nasty words to say to Fa'Lina, e.g. "What have you done to my son, you crazy old hag?"
"You banned my son from the library
? What kind of educational institution are you running, you crazy old hag?" :mowtongue
Quote
Which ultimately reinforces my point that if SAIA traumatised Abel (or any other student) about shapeshifting, it would be in their interests to fix it ASAP. Whereas I think we agree that if Abel (or any other student) went into SAIA with a hangup about shapeshifting they wouldn't be quite so adamant about curing it at any cost, particularly if, as you say, it's some kind of religious belief.
I think the opposite scenario would be more likely. Young Cubi who, like Dan, were not raised among Creatures must show up at SAIA all the time--with all sorts of hangups. There would be a support network in place to help them work through their prejudices against Creatures/Cubi/magic/shapeshifting/(insert hangup here) and adapt to life in SAIA. That might even apply to religious beliefs. If sufficiently maladaptive, they might be treated like a cult indoctrination in need of deprogramming rather than healthy spirituality. If kids grow headwings after being raised to believe that Cubi are abominations against the gods, it's unlikely that SAIA will be all that sympathetic to their religion.
On the other hand, if the incident that put him off impersonation occurred later in his education, after he'd passed all his shapeshifting classes and could already toss lightning bolts at will, they'd be more likely to decide that he's a big boy and leave him alone rather than press the issue. The goth thing happened shortly after Abel entered SAIA, and the wording of Fa'Lina's reaction suggests that she was willing to humour the phases he was going through up to a point even then. There's a good three centuries in between during which his beliefs could have evolved.
And we still don't know what happened in that library... >:3
Evidence from the comic supports this theory. Abel is a very technically skilled shapeshifter. He performed an effortless sex change (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_690.php)--a feat which, by his own admission, represents the culmination of years of training in multiple aspects of shapechanging. He pulled off a perfect Merlitz, with no reference, after meeting him only once. (Remember that Merlitz left immediately after Abel moved to Lost Lake.) That indicates years spent honing his impersonation skills, not someone who had a viceral opposition to practicing them.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 29, 2007, 04:32:14 PM
Funny... maybe it was just the warm sepia tones and 19th century fashions, but that felt homier to me. Doctors making house calls, live-in nurse looking after a sick wife... Devin's family certainly looked like they could afford such care.
Could be. I hadn't thought of that.
Quote"You banned my son from the library? What kind of educational institution are you running, you crazy old hag?"
True. 'Course, Abel probably doesn't
have a parent to get mad at Fa'Lina, since unless either of his parents were 'Cubi, they're centuries dead by the present day. If he's a cuckoo, which seems likely, he may or may not know who his biological father was. If Cid doesn't hunt them down and kill them when he finds out what's happened.
QuoteI think the opposite scenario would be more likely. Young Cubi who, like Dan, were not raised among Creatures must show up at SAIA all the time--with all sorts of hangups. There would be a support network in place to help them work through their prejudices against Creatures/Cubi/magic/shapeshifting/(insert hangup here) and adapt to life in SAIA.
I agree that they'll have a support network - after all, Fa'Lina is, in her own freaky way, trying to do that with Dan now. My argument is that Abel was too far gone when he arrived for them to be able to do much about it - as I say, it might be that getting him to perform cosmetic alterations was as much as they could get him to open up.
QuoteOn the other hand, if the incident that put him off impersonation occurred later in his education, after he'd passed all his shapeshifting classes and could already toss lightning bolts at will, they'd be more likely to decide that he's a big boy and leave him alone rather than press the issue.
This is true to some degree, but there are many situations which can screw up adults pretty good as well. War, accidents, murder etc. Indeed, what Abel's just seen has done him a power of no good - when he comes across Kria in the present timeline we'll find out if there are any lingering mental scars.
Since we don't know what caused it, we can't really tell, but personally I believe it was because his real dad was a monster in disguise.
QuoteAnd we still don't know what happened in that library... >:3
I don't think we will.
QuoteEvidence from the comic supports this theory. Abel is a very technically skilled shapeshifter. He performed an effortless sex change -- a feat which, by his own admission, represents the culmination of years of training in multiple aspects of shapechanging.
Yes - but it didn't involve changing his base form. It isn't that he can't - it's that he won't. Becoming Merlitz didn't really require anything non-cosmetic since they're both feline, and if he's happy enough to change hair colour, fur is probably not going to be much different. If he had been required to turn himself into a feral poodle like Aary did, that would be a true measure of his skill.
(Back to your theory, I wonder if Abel got done for turning himself into Fa'Lina?)
QuoteHe pulled off a perfect Merlitz, with no reference, after meeting him only once.
I'm not yet convinced. Merlitz was wearing clothes when they met, but until the gang turn up, he's naked to the waist. That he's half-naked when he chucks Mab, Wildy and Pyro out the door suggests they may have been helping him fine-tune.
And they could easily have given him a selection of photographs - copies of the ones they sent to the reporters, for example. The
reporters knew what he had to look like - if they'd just said he was a male feline, Abel could have done the whole gig in base form sans wings.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 29, 2007, 04:32:14 PM
We do know that Cubification of Beings is possible. The non-canon version involves evil doctors with large needles, but Amber has been silent on how the official version might work. There may even be multiple paths to Cubification.
We do? I know Tapewolf has written about it, but, so far as I can recall, Amber herself has been silent on the subject.
That's not to say it -can't- happen - just that we have zero information, one way or another, other than Tapewolf's poking in the dark - and he's as much as admitted that that's what he's doing, and it makes a good story, and he really hopes he doesn't have to re-write that whole segment because it worked so well...
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 29, 2007, 05:07:43 PM
(Back to your theory, I wonder if Abel got done for turning himself into Fa'Lina?)
... or a Librarian. And got done for it when the -real- Librarian got jiggy with him... and discovered the next morning?
Yeah, ok, I'm evil. :-)
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 29, 2007, 05:45:13 PM
Quote from: Tezkat on March 29, 2007, 04:32:14 PM
We do know that Cubification of Beings is possible. The non-canon version involves evil doctors with large needles, but Amber has been silent on how the official version might work. There may even be multiple paths to Cubification.
We do? I know Tapewolf has written about it, but, so far as I can recall, Amber herself has been silent on the subject.
Tapewolf's poking in the dark - and he's as much as admitted that that's what he's doing, and it makes a good story, and he really hopes he doesn't have to re-write that whole segment because it worked so well...
Nope - I am treading on fairly solid ground there, or I wouldn't have written that bit that way. The original idea was direct soul-transfer with a 'cubi and having Ashley shapeshift into his original form - until I came across Amber's tantalising notes in the 'cubification thread.
Voila: http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum1871.htm#ref326
...note that I was deliberately vague on
how it works >:3
I added that to the wiki a few days before publishing, although perhaps it could do with an entire (if short) article rather than a footnote in the 'Cubi trivia section.
Okays my theory is....All statements and theorys are false before this one >:3
It is quite obvious that Dan is Abel's biological father, I have as much evidence to prove this theory as anyone else does.
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 29, 2007, 11:40:49 AMBut I thought Devin's mom killed them... :erk Plus, that was probably in a different town...
No, that was the same town. Remember? Abel was going back to the funeral of a friend whom he grew up with? Devin and Abel were childhood antagonists?
As for Devin's mom killing them--if Snidely Whiplash ties a young woman up on the tracks, and she gets run over, who has killed her? Technically, it was the train, but we'd all say it was Snidely.
Likewise, if Devin's mom knew `cubi who was in the business of baby farming, and she delivered her other kids into their care, she could probably call herself a murderer.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 29, 2007, 04:32:14 PMinconceivable
Bravo, sir! I bow down to your punning abilities.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 29, 2007, 04:32:14 PMThere would be a support network in place to help them work through their prejudices against Creatures/Cubi/magic/shapeshifting/(insert hangup here) and adapt to life in SAIA. That might even apply to religious beliefs. If sufficiently maladaptive, they might be treated like a cult indoctrination in need of deprogramming rather than healthy spirituality.
I was referring more to the `cubi clans that revolve around peace (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_493.php). If there are peaceful `cubi, it doesn't seem that unlikely that there are `cubi who don't shift base forms.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 29, 2007, 04:32:14 PMHe performed an effortless sex change--a feat which, by his own admission, represents the culmination of years of training in multiple aspects of shapechanging. He pulled off a perfect Merlitz, with no reference, after meeting him only once. (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_690.php)
No--he gave himself tits. That's something different entirely. The sex change for Danlexsi might have been extremely difficult. He also pulled off a Merlitz to people who hadn't seen him in a long time, thought that he was slightly batty, and were preoccupied with Dan's magic. Anyways, that's not impersonation, that's acting.
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 29, 2007, 06:46:15 PMIt is quite obvious that Dan is Abel's biological father, I have as much evidence to prove this theory as anyone else does.
Ooh! This is a fun one! The dragons wipe out Dan's clan, leaving just him. Pyro lends Dan his time machine, and Dan avails himself of his latent homosexual urges when he sees a woman who looks just like Abel. Abel gets born with a birthmark on his back, screwing up the clan marking.
If I recall correctly while Abel managed to fool people Merl hadn't been seen in 5 years...or months depending on the time table you have to admit Merlbel had the worst hair cut I have ever seen. If I had a haircut that bad my friends would probably avoid looking at me directly and would be making snippy comments behind my back.
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 29, 2007, 08:54:52 PM
If I recall correctly while Abel managed to fool people Merl hadn't been seen in 5 years...or months depending on the time table you have to admit Merlbel had the worst hair cut I have ever seen. If I had a haircut that bad my friends would probably avoid looking at me directly and would be making snippy comments behind my back.
Also , they had mind shields on, that they didn't need, 'cause they were so thick. As Abel did at the start , what Merl does do instinctivly . No minding needed . Just a damned good sucker punch and the ability to keep himself under control . ( Remember when he was told that they were looking for cubi in the area and Abel stays quoting the lines in 'Dune' 'fear is the little death, etc ... )
I had a thought on the whole "Devin's mom killed her other children" comments...
Perhaps when she said she killed them she meant some kind of self abortion.. as apposed to letting them be born then killing them? Someone would have been bound to notice that the Lady Mernstar is having children who keep disappearing shortly after birth
Here is my theory..
Perhaps Devin's mother knew he was an Incubus. She knew somehow knew that he was trying to spawn a cubi baby, and she caused/gave herself abortions because she loved him, and knew that if she had a baby and it was not an incubus he would leave. Eventually, she slipped up and let herself get too pregnant, and could not abort the baby, and thus we get Devin.
This is also extending to a thought that perhaps the birth of a cubi baby from a Being/Creature union is an all or nothing thing... Each couple will either have cubi babies, or they wont, there isn't any hit or miss. Otherwise.. Why just up and leave? He could have always just tried again..))
What I want to know is WHY abel's story has to be about everyone being a cubi... some of the spec i've seen is pretty unrealistic, given the purpose of these pieces of stories... any more realistic point of why the plot went along as it is seems to get completely lost in an overly elaborate and convoluted speculation...
QuoteQuoteBut I thought Devin's mom killed them... Plus, that was probably in a different town...
No, that was the same town. Remember? Abel was going back to the funeral of a friend whom he grew up with? Devin and Abel were childhood antagonists?
They were childhood antagonists AFTER Devin started living with his aunt and uncle. He was jealous of Abel, who had loving parents, while he was a 'burden' to his aunt & uncle. Abel knew nothing about Devin's mother.
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 29, 2007, 06:46:15 PM
It is quite obvious that Dan is Abel's biological father, I have as much evidence to prove this theory as anyone else does.
huh?! :erk ???
Quote from: superluser on March 29, 2007, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 29, 2007, 11:40:49 AMBut I thought Devin's mom killed them... :erk Plus, that was probably in a different town...
No, that was the same town. Remember? Abel was going back to the funeral of a friend whom he grew up with? Devin and Abel were childhood antagonists?
We don't actually know that 100% - it's probably the case, but when I did my reply I realised that Devin may have been born elsewhere.
It's possible that he only moved to Abel's town when he was transferred to his uncle and aunt's care.
QuoteQuote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 29, 2007, 06:46:15 PM
It is quite obvious that Dan is Abel's biological father, I have as much evidence to prove this theory as anyone else does.
huh?! :erk ???
He's just being facetious >:3
oh. *smack head* :doh
**EDIT**
QuoteEdit note: There will be a slight delay. Lets just say there was an attack on my drawing paper by the tea forces and I am currently having to redraw. Abel's Story should still go up on Saturday...it just might be a few hours later than I'd normally prefer. At worst, I'll have it up alongside Monday's comic. Sorry for the inconvenience.
nooooo!!! Damn you to the seven hells tea forces!
:curseyou
ok, breathe...u can survive this... :bar
Is this a point where we have to read tea leaves to find our answers still ? damn that teacup ! Did she do this just to torture us into further discussion ? I await ...