The Clockwork Mansion

So tell me.
Whats your opinion on Real Time Stratagy games compared to Real Time Tactical games.

If you don't know the differance RTSs are the games like C&C and Starcraft.  They involve resource gathering, base building, and reasurch in adition to combat. 

RTT games are those like Ground Control, and the Myth series.  In these games all that is cut from the game there is no reaserch, no base building, no resource gathering you re given a set number of troops and sent off on a mission

Personaly I like RTTs more then RTSs.  It's a little more imersive I think no need to build and rebuild a bases over and over again.  Also every one I've played has had its own way to immers you in the story.  In myth each of your soldiers actualy has a name and if you click them there is a little quote from them, or a bit about them.  also it seems to make up for the fact that there are no super weapons some units are given limited use speacal abilities flaming arrows, and satchel charges in myth or anti personal morters and high explosive rounds in ground  control.  In Ground Control ou have alittle more control over the load out so you can actualy pic the speacial weapson load out of each unit. 

Edit" added a poll

I actually like buidling alot, The more buidling there is in a game the beter. Or atleast thats how I think about it. RTT's where never my style. I like to build a lot (More then for example most C&C games have.) this is why I vote RTS. With prime example: 'EARTH 2150'

Hmm I started earth 2150 but never got into it... I'll have to try again sometime

Honestly I have to say both TGH with C&C 3 and JTF coming out I'll be torn for which one to play...I'll be buying both :P

I agree with Aiyno, building is very fun and I've spent hours and hours on making perfect bases and forces. It's like Sims but with weapons of massdestruction. :P

Quote from: ITOS on September 17, 2006, 04:04:20 PM
I agree with Aiyno, building is very fun and I've spent hours and hours on making perfect bases and forces. It's like Sims but with weapons of massdestruction. :P

Exactly!  :mowhappy

To build we must first destroy.

I've actually defeated an opponent first left him with one buidling and started filling the map up with buidlings because I like building  :laugh

Quote from: ITOS on September 17, 2006, 04:04:20 PM
I agree with Aiyno, building is very fun and I've spent hours and hours on making perfect bases and forces. It's like Sims but with weapons of massdestruction. :P

Ditto. It's really cool getting the base camp and stuff set up perfectly for your strategy and then watching it all finish building and readying for some huge assalt. RTT's good too though.

I'm not really so fond of RTS games, I have to be honest.  There are a few that I like but mostly it's because there are elements which distract me from the bits that I like.  I'll build a shiny town full of all sorts of nifty and then a bunch of misanthropes will come along and destroy it.  Blech.  This is, conversely, why I have so much love for Black & White II.  All the RTS/RTT elements are there but one can actually win the game just by building with style.

The same is actually true of Civilization but that's not an RTS or an RTT in the strictest sense.  Still, I enjoy it because again, I can build and if I'm clever, I never really have to fight anyone.  Which is probably why I always play Gandhi.  Though I've accidentally caused some attrocities.  One thing Civilization has taught me is that I should never give Egyptians uranium, it goes South every single time.

As for RTTs which are purely combat though, I do have a soft spot for them because if the enemy forces aren't knocking down stuff wot I built, then I'm not so against the combat.  Then again, my fondest memories of RTT games are actually being ludicrous and losing.  I lose memorably.

Sir, we have 100 enemy platoons moving at us.  And they're all in the Turtle formation!

... wha~at?!

Gotta stay with Command & Conquer for this one.  Favorite game series ever.  Kane Lives!

Quote from: Aiyno Wolf on September 17, 2006, 05:02:17 PM
I've actually defeated an opponent first left him with one buidling and started filling the map up with buidlings because I like building  :laugh

You too? D:

Do you ever camp the enemy to build up an experienced elite force? :P

Supreme Commander FTW!  :woot

Quote from: ITOS on September 18, 2006, 11:09:46 AM

Quote from: Aiyno Wolf on September 17, 2006, 05:02:17 PM
I've actually defeated an opponent first left him with one buidling and started filling the map up with buidlings because I like building  :laugh

You too? D:

Do you ever camp the enemy to build up an experienced elite force? :P

Fear my army of MIG'S (C&C) :mowtongue Fear my army of 'insert made up name for Earth2150's Lunar biggest flyingbattleship'

RTS's, assuming that the AI is advanced enough to actually make you worry about what's going on and forces you to plan ahead.

Hmm, As for RTS vs. RTTs, I feel that I prefer more the old RTS feeling, then the RTT. For example, I enjoy RTSs like C&C, Homeworld, An' many others. For example:

You will always remember your first tank rush, or Zergling rush(KEKEKEKEKEKE!), and that good feelin when you amass this giant army...only to have it crushed by a n00b who makes the game lag, and let the opponent smite your people with some superweapon of somesort. I remember when I first played an RTS....(Continues ranting like an old man)...and then you put the blue berries in, and WHAM! Your first green plant is there...Huh? what was I talking about
?

RTS>RTT. Unless you mean Rogue Trader Tournament, which you don't :P

I, like others, like building. I enjoy making a bit of a defensive base and just amassing a great army to wipe everyone with.

I'm fond of the Imperial Guard in Dawn of War forjust that reason :D Innumerable amounts of troops... well, numerable in DoW >> And lots and lots of tanks.

I think the Tau will be similarly awesome in the next expansion >>

Worked decently in Starcraft too, with all three races, iirc.

I prefer Turn-based SRPGs, but betwen the two choices I prefer RTS, building a base that can withstand enemy encroachment is just part of the fun. Expansion, and choking enemy resources are just part of my own strategies, I see my base as a weapon.

Good grief, I'd forgotten about such things.  Items such as Vandal Hearts and Shining Force were wholly worthwhile.  Especially the latter, which was truly a haven of all things furry and steampunk.  A magical, wonderful World that game had, to be sure.  And it had a Knight named Mr. Melon too!  There are just so many reasons to respect Shining Force.

I'm sure there are other story-driven strategy games that I've forgotten too but that doesn't make them any less good.

Ohh I loved the shining force games

I still say I love a good immersive rtt myself

But I was wondering all those who say they like the building aspect of these games I was just wondering what you thought of the games like Dungeon Keeper or Evil Genius?

I adore Evil Genius.  I just take advantage of the AI, the game mechanics (yay casino!) and the building methods in order not to kill anyone.  I just steal World monuments a lot.  Usually, a casino and a corridor of 42 near unbreakable doors is enough to keep most heroes away, at least until I can think of a way to deal with them.

I play it as a mildly irritating machiavellian man rather than a butcher of any sort.

I suppose my geniuses are much like Xanitos, without the pro-business mindset.

Dungeon Keeper I unfortunately remember very little of, usually my memory for games is pretty decent (unlike in other cases) but Dungeon Keeper didn't seem to stick in there.

----

Actually, to add to that, I remember building a labyrinth of doors once.  Door after door after door and every now and then, a junction!  And many of the paths would lead to dead-ends or empty rooms.  Of course, I soon realized that this wasn't a good protection system as it confused my minions as much as the heroes.  They'd end up meeting in the corridor tunnel and beating the crap out of each other until I found a way to break them up.

In fact, to add a little more to that, if there was one thing I'd add to Evil Genius it would be minion pathing.  I'd setup my labyrinth, watch which way the AI liked to try breaking in and then have a path laid out for my minions around a convoluted route that the heroes would never travel, thus allowing my minions easy access in and out as Mr. Jet Lee encounters yet another crossroads.

RTS by far. Honestly, I own so many RTS's, it's insane.

StarCraft and expansion
AoEII and expansion
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds and expansion
Age of Mythology and expansion
WarCraft III and expansion
WH40K: Dawn of War and Expansion(Dark Crusade in a few more weeks! :D)
Rise of Legends

And I still plan to get Command and Conquer: The First Decade soon, which will add in a whole bunch more. I'm a junky and I admit it.

Quote from: O.M. on September 22, 2006, 12:19:29 AM
RTS by far. Honestly, I own so many RTS's, it's insane.

StarCraft and expansion
AoEII and expansion
Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds and expansion
Age of Mythology and expansion
WarCraft III and expansion
WH40K: Dawn of War and Expansion(Dark Crusade in a few more weeks! :D)
Rise of Legends

And I still plan to get Command and Conquer: The First Decade soon, which will add in a whole bunch more. I'm a junky and I admit it.

Welcome to the club.

My name is Cvstos, and I'm a Command & Conquer addict...

FPS > RTS > RTT

C&C Pwnz, I really should play it more often.

Quote from: ×HaZ×MaT× on September 22, 2006, 02:10:10 AM
FPS > RTS > RTT

C&C Pwnz, I really should play it more often.

Then the next question emerges:

Tactical FPS (counterstrike, Metal gear solid, Socom, Ghost recon)
or
Chaos FPS? (unrealtournament, Painkiller, Quake Tournament, Halo)

:laugh

Hmm what would a game like battle field be considered?

Most of the games I've played it's been chaotic  but there are real stratigic goals

*capturing bases*

Quote from: thegayhare on September 22, 2006, 04:25:03 AMMost of the games I've played it's been chaotic 

That's because the battlefield is too small. Both armies are right on top of each other. This turns the game into a micro-management foray, where each and every individual unit must be manually managed to get the most out of them. The fastest builder / best micromanager wins. It's not so much strategy as a multiple squad management game.

That's one of the things Supreme Commader is giong to (partially) transcend. There will be micromanagement on small maps, but the larger ones are all about tactics and strategy. Outflank your enemies armies, lure them away with active radar towers far away from your own base, and actually do pincer-movements with whole armies (aka. the enemies army collides with a portion of your forces. You pull your forces back, anemy follows, not knowinf that you have 2 other groups waiting on the sides, ready to attack them in the sides / rear, thus pulverising them.)

call me a freak too but i like turned based strategy over real time strategy. it must be my style, kind of like chess of planning in advance everything.....or the fact that every computer ive ever used has become a BoXXor-O-RoXxoRZ!!! about two years before i lay a finger on the keyboard so im limited to the oldest games i can find

which is why i have to rely on consoles, where i have to say its kinda ironic i preffer real time RPGs over turned based RPGs- in both cases i preffer whats other then the norm and would actually make the game far more complex then it should be.

ah well, its not like you always have the opportunity to play dungion keeper or sim hospital or sim theeme park.....i love those old fashoned godlike games

QuoteGenerally anyone who WANTS power is exactly the person who has no clue what that power entails

Speaking of turn based SRPGs...

36 characters... 4 companies... 1 crossover... "Chaos Wars."

Atlus, Red, Aruze, and Idea factory...

Growlanser, Gungrave, Shadowhearts, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acmnRKzv5BU
Chaos Wars... my god they made a chibi Grave! CHIBI GRAVE!

Speaking of RPG's, does anyone know of a (series of) rpg's that doesn't use that accursed leveling system so favoured by final fantasy? I 'm really starting to hate level-grinding.

Name a format and I'll give you a list.

There are plenty of RPGs like that, though to be honest I'd have to start off by recommending the Shining Force series.  Whilst you do have to replay a couple of its battles here and there, they're more like tactical board games than grinding, the battles frequently turn out differently.

If you only want to play each battle once, then I'd have to say Vandal Hearts.  There are plenty of other non-grindy examples too but like I said, pick a format and I'll see what I can find.  I've played lots of games like that, I love them.

Quote from: Vidar on September 22, 2006, 08:10:52 AM
Speaking of RPG's, does anyone know of a (series of) rpg's that doesn't use that accursed leveling system so favoured by final fantasy? I 'm really starting to hate level-grinding.

Try the Elder Scrolls Series, Comrade- you imrpove skills/stats through practice, rather than stupid levels.

On-topic, I must say that I prefer neither- I prefer either turn-based strategy (I must be the only person on Earth who liked Master Of orion 3), or grand strategy, such as Hearts Of Iron 2. Basically, the more complex the game, the more I like it :)

Quote from: Vidar on September 22, 2006, 08:10:52 AM
Speaking of RPG's, does anyone know of a (series of) rpg's that doesn't use that accursed leveling system so favoured by final fantasy? I 'm really starting to hate level-grinding.

Monster Hunter! There's no levelling involved, just fighting monsters and making equipment out of them.
While I have stated a prefferance for RTS, RTT's pretty fun too, like Tactics Ogre or Final Fantasy Tactics. I mainly prefer RTS for the building of stuff and the fact that the battles are longer and on a larger scale. Seeing one guy hitting another with a sword isn't nearly as satisfying as troops marching out from the barracks to raid the other guy's base camp. That's just me though.

Quote from: Komissar Makarov on September 25, 2006, 12:25:40 PM
On-topic, I must say that I prefer neither- I prefer either turn-based strategy (I must be the only person on Earth who liked Master Of orion 3), or grand strategy, such as Hearts Of Iron 2. Basically, the more complex the game, the more I like it :)

I think many considered MOO3 to be a big letdown from MOO2. If you like TBS, I suggest looking into the Space Empires series (with #5 coming out shortly), or Galactic Civilisations. GC2 has a very backwards combat system though, and the SE series have much better modelling of combat. In GC2, a shot never misses and the only way to stop it is appropriate levels of shielding. At least in SE there's to-hit chances. :P That and you actually get some useful command over your ships. Oh, and SE4 currently has online multiplayer...

So yeah. GC2 may be all graphically shiny but SE4 currently holds #1 place as Space-Strat as far as I'm concerned.

It's so damned addictive too. :laugh

Personally I prefer TBS over RTS though there is much to be said for leading my Legion of Doom [tm] into battle in AOE II. I may evolve a similar liking for AoE III if I get more playtime.

RTS>FPS>RTT for me.

I'd have to say that RTS takes more skill in multitasking, and is more fun overall in my opinion.

I personally prefer TBT games.

Just came to think of something. RTTs aren't as fun to mod. :3

*goes off to mod EaW*

*bashes computer in frustration over malfunctioning code* D:<

I cast my vote with RTS games.

I have to agree withsome of  the above comments, there's something just that much satisfying about building up your own forces and bringing the fruitrs of your own labors down on your enemy's head.

One of my favorite games, as a prime example, is Stronghold and it's sequals.  The main part of the game revolves around building a strong castle and a vibrant economy.

RTT games, on the other hand, feel like stripped down RTS games to me.  Many RTS games have RTT style scenarios for when you need a pure combat fix.

Of course, my prefered game would have to be the Turn based strategy game, as I have trouble keeping everything that's going on at once in an RTS or RTT under my control. (thank goodness for the ability to issue commands while paused :confused

I really have no love for either in this genre (a special place in my heart and wallet exist for C&C), nor am I a real fan of the shooters either.  My strategy games are always turn-based, as I prefer to have an even footing in reaction time to the AI.