Hooooo boy! Destania's intent on making friends right, left and centre, ain't she?
Now, considering the speculation from the last comic thread has now been immediately contradicated... Amber... tell me the truth. You love throwing us for a loop, don't you?
...I'd respond but I'm too busy dying of laughter from your icon. :U
Couldn't help but notice Dee's quill pen, too.
Oh, Destania. Evil, high pain tolerance, a bit more evil.
It's going to take an entire continent of adventurers to take you down, isn't it blue girl? :V
Quote from: Merlin on July 21, 2014, 12:41:23 AM
Hooooo boy! Destania's intent on making friends right, left and centre, ain't she?
Now, considering the speculation from the last comic thread has now been immediately contradicated... Amber... tell me the truth. You love throwing us for a loop, don't you?
Hey, we were
almost on the right track... :B
Oh, Destania - willing to do so much evil for such stupid, petty reasons. Revenge is all you live for now, isn't it. I wonder what you would do if you managed to succeed in both of your plans.
OTOH: is Riva a kyoot little phoenix? yiss! yiss! whosanadorable ickle firebird? *continues fawning over bebbeh Riva*
Quote from: Amber Williams on July 21, 2014, 01:15:38 AM
...I'd respond but I'm too busy dying of laughter from your icon. :U
Sadly it rotates so that doesn't leave us much the wiser...
Quote from: Anri on July 21, 2014, 01:21:29 AM
Couldn't help but notice Dee's quill pen, too.
Man, that's cold!
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 21, 2014, 05:18:18 AM
Quote from: Amber Williams on July 21, 2014, 01:15:38 AM
...I'd respond but I'm too busy dying of laughter from your icon. :U
Sadly it rotates so that doesn't leave us much the wiser...
Good thing they're
all hilarious, then. ;)
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 21, 2014, 05:18:18 AM
Quote from: Amber Williams on July 21, 2014, 01:15:38 AM
...I'd respond but I'm too busy dying of laughter from your icon. :U
Sadly it rotates so that doesn't leave us much the wiser...
WELL at least we know it wasn't this one
(http://oekaki.dhscomix.com/avatar/gay4des.png)
since i just drew that now
for the laughs
Should the Oracles be telling him all this instead of making up some kind of allegory about fish? Or are they being this candid because they don't truly know what's going on?
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 21, 2014, 06:18:38 AM
Should the Oracles be telling him all this instead of making up some kind of allegory about fish? Or are they being this candid because they don't truly know what's going on?
The oracles aren't actually making a prediction. He asked to talk to Riva. They let him talk to Riva. All statements by babies are cryptic.
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 21, 2014, 06:18:38 AM
Should the Oracles be telling him all this instead of making up some kind of allegory about fish? Or are they being this candid because they don't truly know what's going on?
Technically speaking they aren't making any predictions. They're just stating what any normal person would know about the situation at this point. Also, with regards to the Katbox note, I do wonder if Dee just used some element resistance or decided "f*** it" and had a glorious feast of her own pain.
Quote from: HaDDea on July 21, 2014, 02:17:30 AM
OTOH: is Riva a kyoot little phoenix? yiss! yiss! whosanadorable ickle firebird? *continues fawning over bebbeh Riva*
Awww! What a kyoot widdle homicide victim.
Maybe Riva was one of Mab's friends. That makes her prediction valid without giving the bucket to another main cast member.
It does take some kind of mad dedication and hatred to be willing to set your head on fire for a possibility of killing someone you don't like.
That is one determined succubus right there.
Um, back when we first saw the adventurer group speak to the Oracle we hypothesized that it may be Destania in disguise. I still didn't see it coming though. Such a impressive plot twist.
There's awesome, there's crazy awesome, and then there's this.
I'm liking Destania more and more.
If the Demonology 101 entry is still current, the next move by the Phoenix A tribe would be to try and identify Destania as the one who defiled the temple, murdered one of their own and impersonated an oracle (probably the worst of the three wrongs). After that, they'd send Pandora in for a little chat.
Only trouble is, Destania is already completely crackers. Finding out the time and means of her death would just cause her to laugh in Pandora's face, "murder" her too, and redouble her efforts to take Abel, Alexei and/or Fa'lina with her.
Huh. Suddenly I remember that Abel once lit himself of fire with little ill effect.
I also remember that one question of Dan's that was answered by the students of SAIA was "Are Cubi resistant to the elements?", or something similar.
Howl: Ambaaargh has mentioned more than once that she might or might not actually kill anyone. Of course, that's also an author teasing and keeping her fans in the dark/confused/unsure, but it's still up in the air if anyone will die, or if they'll come back.
Quote from: Hariman on July 22, 2014, 12:01:51 AM
Huh. Suddenly I remember that Abel once lit himself of fire with little ill effect.
I also remember that one question of Dan's that was answered by the students of SAIA was "Are Cubi resistant to the elements?", or something similar.
I just assumed it takes magic to resist the elements, and as stated, magic is turned "off" at the temple. *shrug*
Quote from: CubiKitsune on July 22, 2014, 12:32:13 AM
Quote from: Hariman on July 22, 2014, 12:01:51 AM
Huh. Suddenly I remember that Abel once lit himself of fire with little ill effect.
I also remember that one question of Dan's that was answered by the students of SAIA was "Are Cubi resistant to the elements?", or something similar.
I just assumed it takes magic to resist the elements, and as stated, magic is turned "off" at the temple. *shrug*
That's a good point.
Methinks that Destania is going to do a lot more damage before someone stops her.
Quote from: Hariman on July 22, 2014, 12:01:51 AM
Howl: Ambaaargh has mentioned more than once that she might or might not actually kill anyone. Of course, that's also an author teasing and keeping her fans in the dark/confused/unsure, but it's still up in the air if anyone will die, or if they'll come back.
Seeing as soulstealing/soul magic appears to be a major plot element, and a major theme is that the use of such magic is overall detrimental, I doubt anyone will be coming back - leastways not without some cost to themselves (sanity/personality shift?).
Besides, once people can get res'd easily, the sting of death being a Big Deal disappears. one of the major drama points with Mab is that she might theoretically have the power to keep her linear friends alive, Da Rules won't not let her, and she's bummed out about it - ergo she's trying to keep them alive by more mundane means.
I wonder how Cyra feels about Destania's shenanigans...
Quote from: ArchTeryx on July 21, 2014, 11:40:41 PM
If the Demonology 101 entry is still current, the next move by the Phoenix A tribe would be to try and identify Destania as the one who defiled the temple, murdered one of their own and impersonated an oracle (probably the worst of the three wrongs). After that, they'd send Pandora in for a little chat.
Only trouble is, Destania is already completely crackers. Finding out the time and means of her death would just cause her to laugh in Pandora's face, "murder" her too, and redouble her efforts to take Abel, Alexei and/or Fa'lina with her.
It's better than that. Knowing that you literally can't die before a set time makes some really, really insane schemes viable - and given her goals pretty much boil down to making a bunch of dragons die sooner than her, it meshes well.
Quote from: VAE on July 22, 2014, 02:48:53 AM
Quote from: ArchTeryx on July 21, 2014, 11:40:41 PM
If the Demonology 101 entry is still current, the next move by the Phoenix A tribe would be to try and identify Destania as the one who defiled the temple, murdered one of their own and impersonated an oracle (probably the worst of the three wrongs). After that, they'd send Pandora in for a little chat.
Only trouble is, Destania is already completely crackers. Finding out the time and means of her death would just cause her to laugh in Pandora's face, "murder" her too, and redouble her efforts to take Abel, Alexei and/or Fa'lina with her.
It's better than that. Knowing that you literally can't die before a set time makes some really, really insane schemes viable - and given her goals pretty much boil down to making a bunch of dragons die sooner than her, it meshes well.
Well, seeing as the Phoenix Oracles likely know Destania's intentions (I'm going off the conversation between Pyroduck and Da'), and Pandora's sole purpose is to punish defilers of the Oracles, perhaps then she would not tell Destania the time and manner of her death, but perhaps something more sinister - such as if her plans to destroy the dragons is going to fail, or something that will crush and humiliate her - like she will perish protecting Abel's life. That seems to be what Pandora tells you - a prophecy you cannot escape, but will go mad desperately trying to claw your way out of.
Quote from: HaDDea on July 22, 2014, 04:28:29 AM
Well, seeing as the Phoenix Oracles likely know Destania's intentions (I'm going off the conversation between Pyroduck and Da')...
Nope. On this page (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1363.php), Da' specifically says that
something is blocking her from seeing Pyro's future. Therefore, one could assume that Dee is able to block her own future from the Oracles' sight. And that would include her future plans.
Quote from: CubiKitsune on July 22, 2014, 04:43:48 AM
Quote from: HaDDea on July 22, 2014, 04:28:29 AM
Well, seeing as the Phoenix Oracles likely know Destania's intentions (I'm going off the conversation between Pyroduck and Da')...
Nope. On this page (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1363.php), Da' specifically says that something is blocking her from seeing Pyro's future. Therefore, one could assume that Dee is able to block her own future from the Oracles' sight. And that would include her future plans.
I was under the impression that the reason why Lost Lake was under blockage was because of the combined efforts of Cyra and Falina to protect the place for Cyra's descendants' sake (Some Fae meddling may also be at work). Da' does specify that there aren't many things that have the sort of power required to block Phoenix Sight, and I have doubts that Destania's personal powers, while they are no doubt considerable, are quite that large. The Twinks might possibly have some sort of capability (not much has been revealed in-comic about them).
However, the blockages seem to be linked to the location, not to individuals. Dee would have to stay within those No-Sight zones for her future to remain hidden from view. And just because Phoenix Sight does not work in these zones does not mean other forms of scrying will not - Hizell seemed to be able to look easily enough at Lost Lake. Given her enjoyment of the Personal Touch in her work, i think it would be relatively easy for Pandora to find Dee while outside a No-Sight zone or even perhaps to observe her while inside one, and to plan accordingly.
Quote from: HaDDea on July 22, 2014, 04:28:29 AM
Well, seeing as the Phoenix Oracles likely know Destania's intentions (I'm going off the conversation between Pyroduck and Da')...
Given her enjoyment of the Personal Touch in her work, i think it would be relatively easy for Pandora to find Dee while outside a No-Sight zone or even perhaps to observe her while inside one, and to plan accordingly.
Oh, I have little doubt that the Oracles are REALLY motivated to figure out who's aping them - they may be immune from murder, but not from completely lost credibility. Once word gets out that an imposter is bumping off Oracles and posing as them, who exactly is going to believe anything that comes out of the beaks of the real ones?
But again, I reiterate: Pandora's Paradox only works if the person isn't already completely batsh*t, and Destania's all the way to the back of the batcave already. I doubt there's
anything Pandora could tell her that she couldn't blow off, or simply incorporate into her plans. She's basically a shapeshifting Xanatos.
One major problem with Pandora's Paradox: It likely requires at the minimum reading someone's future, to find out when they're actually going to die.
Cyra's clan has problems in future sight apparently, and it's likely not always linked to location. After all, Destania impersonated an oracle, and they know nothing about it except good old detective work. So... Pandora would have no clue at all when Destania is fated to die in the first place.
It could also be that the problems with Lost Lake specifically is due to Mab. Who can do anything they want, except have omniscience(that's Pip's thing). Alternatively, it's just because Dan's been there long enough.
Quote from: Kibin on July 22, 2014, 03:48:59 PM
One major problem with Pandora's Paradox: It likely requires at the minimum reading someone's future, to find out when they're actually going to die.
Cyra's clan has problems in future sight apparently, and it's likely not always linked to location. After all, Destania impersonated an oracle, and they know nothing about it except good old detective work. So... Pandora would have no clue at all when Destania is fated to die in the first place...
If Destania's managed to neutralize Pandora AND blind the Oracles, then their pacifism is going to be very sorely tested. They won't get their own Feather Fingers dirty, but this is a direct threat to their previously unchallenged role in Furrae, not to mention an equal threat to their adopted child Pyroduck. I'd think they'd want to seek out and neutralize Destania at
all costs.
They just became players in this Xanatos Gambit whether they like it or not, but the Phoenix A tribe are collectively the smartest creatures on Furrae. They'll get creative about making sure that, having been forced into the game, they'll win it.
Well, I guess Abel is off the hook since you wouldn't kill an oracle and take her place if you wanted to tell someone the truth.
Quote from: Eboreg on July 22, 2014, 08:08:16 PM
Well, I guess Abel is off the hook since you wouldn't kill an oracle and take her place if you wanted to tell someone the truth.
Unless they again say "He was killed by a 'Cubi from Lost Lake" - meaning Destania.
Quote from: HaDDea on July 22, 2014, 05:34:38 AM
Quote from: CubiKitsune on July 22, 2014, 04:43:48 AM
Quote from: HaDDea on July 22, 2014, 04:28:29 AM
Well, seeing as the Phoenix Oracles likely know Destania's intentions (I'm going off the conversation between Pyroduck and Da')...
Nope. On this page (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1363.php), Da' specifically says that something is blocking her from seeing Pyro's future. Therefore, one could assume that Dee is able to block her own future from the Oracles' sight. And that would include her future plans.
I was under the impression that the reason why Lost Lake was under blockage was because of the combined efforts of Cyra and Falina to protect the place for Cyra's descendants' sake (Some Fae meddling may also be at work). Da' does specify that there aren't many things that have the sort of power required to block Phoenix Sight, and I have doubts that Destania's personal powers, while they are no doubt considerable, are quite that large. The Twinks might possibly have some sort of capability (not much has been revealed in-comic about them).
However, the blockages seem to be linked to the location, not to individuals. Dee would have to stay within those No-Sight zones for her future to remain hidden from view. And just because Phoenix Sight does not work in these zones does not mean other forms of scrying will not - Hizell seemed to be able to look easily enough at Lost Lake. Given her enjoyment of the Personal Touch in her work, i think it would be relatively easy for Pandora to find Dee while outside a No-Sight zone or even perhaps to observe her while inside one, and to plan accordingly.
Interesting points. In my mind, Destania heavily involved means Destania is the culprit. But you may have something there...
Quote from: CubiKitsune on July 23, 2014, 12:30:09 AM
Interesting points. In my mind, Destania heavily involved means Destania is the culprit. But you may have something there...
Granted - but I still feel the power, if it is linked to individuals, is still derived from Falina and Cyra - I just have trouble believing that a non-triwing can come up with the kind of power that Da' seemed to be alluding to. However, if it is linked to individuals, I'm not sure then why Lost Lake is currently a No-Sight zone, as no Cyran descendants are currently present there (does Mab naturally cause one? Pip?? Jyrras' nonmagical tinkering???).
Another thought is that there may be a sort of "future lag" built up around an individual who has lived in/out of such a zone... Falina seems to have had the ability to see Abel's future while he was at Lost lake, then after a month it stopped - though whether this is because Abel is living in a No-Sight zone or because he was no longer living in SAIA i am not sure... if such "lag"exists and builds around an individual, it may be possible to venture outside such a zone for a short period of time to do nefarious deeds and then jump back inside and be safe from Phoenix Sight... but you'd better hope you can get back inside before the lag catches up.
hmm.... what would happen if the Phoenixes decided to align with the Dragons in order to exterminate Destania....
Quote from: HaDDea on July 23, 2014, 02:44:25 AM
hmm.... what would happen if the Phoenixes decided to align with the Dragons in order to exterminate Destania....
Nothing good. The Phoenix Oracles may be driven to what are, for them, desperate measures, but that doesn't mean they want to start a brand new Dragon-Cubi war. They are still, at the root, pacifists. Neutralizing Destania may be something they can justify to
prevent another war. Wrecking the world - again - isn't something they'd do even to save themselves.
Quote from: HaDDea on July 22, 2014, 02:20:08 AM
Quote from: Hariman on July 22, 2014, 12:01:51 AM
Howl: Ambaaargh has mentioned more than once that she might or might not actually kill anyone. Of course, that's also an author teasing and keeping her fans in the dark/confused/unsure, but it's still up in the air if anyone will die, or if they'll come back.
Seeing as soulstealing/soul magic appears to be a major plot element, and a major theme is that the use of such magic is overall detrimental, I doubt anyone will be coming back - leastways not without some cost to themselves (sanity/personality shift?).
Besides, once people can get res'd easily, the sting of death being a Big Deal disappears. one of the major drama points with Mab is that she might theoretically have the power to keep her linear friends alive, Da Rules won't not let her, and she's bummed out about it - ergo she's trying to keep them alive by more mundane means.
I wonder how Cyra feels about Destania's shenanigans...
Well, I'm not sure if many people will get rezzed easily. The resurrection ritual might not even get used often, because Kria, Lorenda, and the rest of her family might stop using it. Also, people know that Dark Pegasus has come back repeatedly, but most don't know that he gets rezzed by his sister each time.
As for how Cyra feels about Destania's shenanigans?
Cyra probably feels very sad about them, given the regret she has shown about the destruction of an entire city caused by her actions, and the resulting war.
...
Also, because I want to cheer up after a very frustrating day:
DANCING SMILEYS! :ipod :kirby :zombiekun2 :ipod :zombiekun2 :kirby :ipod
Quote from: Hariman on July 23, 2014, 11:10:29 PM
Cyra probably feels very sad about them, given the regret she has shown about the destruction of an entire city caused by her actions, and the resulting war.
Cyra, I feel I should point out, was attempting to make a good impression on Dan at the time. Not to be too dark, but there's no reason I can see that she wouldn't feel fully justified in lying through her teeth, if it furthered her ends.
I'm not suggesting she definitely is; just that we've seen nothing to say that she's not just as happy as Destania is to cause pain...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 24, 2014, 12:49:48 AM
Cyra, I feel I should point out, was attempting to make a good impression on Dan at the time. Not to be too dark, but there's no reason I can see that she wouldn't feel fully justified in lying through her teeth, if it furthered her ends.
That is possible, though the Cyra letter says much the same:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,8656.msg357302.html#msg357302
...As I remember, the replies given in the letters were true, to the best of their belief.
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 24, 2014, 04:27:05 AM
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 24, 2014, 12:49:48 AM
Cyra, I feel I should point out, was attempting to make a good impression on Dan at the time. Not to be too dark, but there's no reason I can see that she wouldn't feel fully justified in lying through her teeth, if it furthered her ends.
That is possible, though the Cyra letter says much the same:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,8656.msg357302.html#msg357302
...As I remember, the replies given in the letters were true, to the best of their belief.
Some of the information in those letters make me suddenly curious as to the nature of Phoenix resurrection, and to the 'slightly different outlook and personality' of most phoenixes. Hmmm...
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 24, 2014, 04:27:05 AM
That is possible, though the Cyra letter says much the same:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,8656.msg357302.html#msg357302
...As I remember, the replies given in the letters were true, to the best of their belief.
Okay, newbie here... where did that letter come from? Is that canon? Are there more??
Quote from: lemurvid on July 24, 2014, 10:44:12 AM
Okay, newbie here... where did that letter come from? Is that canon? Are there more??
When Amber sold off the original line-art for the clan leaders, the buyer had the option to ask that clan leader a question. Unless I'm much mistaken, the answer would be truthful, as the clan leader understood it. (e.g. if you ask about the mechanics of the universe, they will tell you what they understand, which might not be correct, but personal questions should be relatively accurate. Amber said she'd warn anyone if their question was likely to provoke an angry response.)
As a rule things tend not to be fully canon unless they actually appear in the comic (and not always then, e.g. the Pokemon arc at the start). But from what was said at the time I would expect them to be a reasonably accurate snapshot of what a given clan leader believes.
AFAIK all the answers we know were collected in that thread, notwithstanding that most are links to scans etc on other sites - I don't think all of them were transcribed. From the guy who was keeping check, the only ones we don't have are Fa'Lina, Mink, Nact'larn and Owona (since Mao declined to ask her a question).
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 24, 2014, 12:11:01 PM
AFAIK all the answers we know were collected in that thread, notwithstanding that most are links to scans etc on other sites - I don't think all of them were transcribed. From the guy who was keeping check, the only ones we don't have are Fa'Lina, Mink, Nact'larn and Owona (since Mao declined to ask her a question).
Cheers, thanks, I'll give them a look. :mowsmile
Aaaand now I have. What a fantastic trove of background info. I'm not a person that cares too much about in-world mechanics (never having been an RPG'er) but those letters are so well-written that I found them fascinating. I wouldn't have thought it possible but my respect for Amber has increased even further.
Thanks everyone for posting them.
Truly there is nothing more terrifying than a woman on a mission. Destania has dedication, a lot of it.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on July 24, 2014, 12:49:48 AM
Quote from: Hariman on July 23, 2014, 11:10:29 PM
Cyra probably feels very sad about them, given the regret she has shown about the destruction of an entire city caused by her actions, and the resulting war.
Cyra, I feel I should point out, was attempting to make a good impression on Dan at the time. Not to be too dark, but there's no reason I can see that she wouldn't feel fully justified in lying through her teeth, if it furthered her ends.
I'm not suggesting she definitely is; just that we've seen nothing to say that she's not just as happy as Destania is to cause pain...
True.
Cyra also has to bear the burden of starting a war that destroyed several clans of cubi, including most of her own clan and the clan of the love of her only remaining daughter, driving her son in law insane and causing unwanted grief and pain to her child.
I could be wrong, but to me, it just doesn't seem in character for Cyra to be manipulating Dan.
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 22, 2014, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: Eboreg on July 22, 2014, 08:08:16 PM
Well, I guess Abel is off the hook since you wouldn't kill an oracle and take her place if you wanted to tell someone the truth.
Unless they again say "He was killed by a 'Cubi from Lost Lake" - meaning Destania.
On the other paw, she could end up saying "He's in a tavern watching his adventuring party get thoroughly sloshed". >:3
Remember, the only proof that he's dead is that an
imposter said so. :mwaha
Quote from: Starcat5 on July 26, 2014, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on July 22, 2014, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: Eboreg on July 22, 2014, 08:08:16 PM
Well, I guess Abel is off the hook since you wouldn't kill an oracle and take her place if you wanted to tell someone the truth.
Unless they again say "He was killed by a 'Cubi from Lost Lake" - meaning Destania.
On the other paw, she could end up saying "He's in a tavern watching his adventuring party get thoroughly sloshed". >:3
Remember, the only proof that he's dead is that an imposter said so. :mwaha
Nytemyste checked the little soul indicator stone that all adventurers have, and it was dark. So Merlitz is either dead, or very well hidden. It's also possible that Merlitz is in the Void Event's shadow.