She knows. That's not the reaction of someone who is surprised at something unexpected (like finding someone without his wings), but of someone who knows that it's come time to face the music.
Holy...poor Abel, he looks utterly wept-out...
And I dunno, a mother's first reaction might be to the mood that her son is in. A consoling comfort before noticing that the wings are gone.
Oh dearie me, did you leave your appendages at school again young man?
Really well done page. Abel's expression is really... Expressive. It portrays the overall mood really well. Usually, in DMFA, the emotional expressions are exaggerated in some way for the sake of comedy. The seriousness of this one's sort of an interesting contrast, from a "I've-been-paying-too-much-attention-in-art-class" perspective.
Is it just me, or does Abel's hanging hair give him the look of "running makeup"?
Quote from: Aisha deCabre on February 17, 2007, 12:31:39 AMAnd I dunno, a mother's first reaction might be to the mood that her son is in. A consoling comfort before noticing that the wings are gone.
I know my first reaction to seeing someone zoned out like that wpuld not be ``Jonesing jellybabies and Jerk chicken on a Jamocha shake! You look like crap!''
It would probably be more subdued, encouraging Abel to be calm. Unless I were freaking out, myself.
He looks like hell for a person...... They always have regretets for being alive :) *sounds like someone familer*
...wow. You can tell from a glance that he's been mentally scarred for life. :mowdizzy
Something just occurred to me, and while it has probably been mentioned before here, I only just realized the answer to the mystery of Abel's parentage:
:shapeshifters
His mother never cheated on his father; Abel's father is a being, not an incubus as I (among others I assume) have been thinking.
It's his mother who is the succubus.
A nice sort of succubus, one presumes, but still, she's the one who is the cubi, not some putative extramarital lover. And what's worse, I suspect her husband doesn't know the truth.
She's been keeping the truth from Abel all along, figuring that she would have years -even decades - before she had to tell him, possibly long after his father is gone. But if he's now suddenly showing up able to shapeshift, she can only assume (not knowing about the amulet) that he's figured out the truth, and is scared because of that, not because he's just had a harrowing life-and-death experience she knows nothing about.
This is going to be messy.
Quote from: Kenji on February 17, 2007, 12:41:49 AMIs it just me, or does Abel's hanging hair give him the look of "running makeup"?
I think it's the dark lines under the eyes. That does indeed look like running eyeliner. Amber's used the same technique in the past.
Quote from: Boogeyman on February 17, 2007, 12:38:08 AMReally well done page. Abel's expression is really... Expressive. It portrays the overall mood really well.
Agreed. Take note, aspiring artists--large eyes looking slightly down and slightly walleyed. Slack jaw. Raised eyebrows. Serious business.
Quote from: Schol-R-LEA on February 17, 2007, 12:53:36 AM
:shapeshifters
His mother never cheated on his father; Abel's father is a being, not an incubus as I (among others I assume) have been thinking.
It's his mother who is the succubus.
I think you're forgetting this emoticon:
(http://www.frontiernet.net/~superluser/hybrid.png)
Messy, yes, but certainly not in that way. Am I going to have to pull that one on cluelessness again?
Oh, and personally I think that Abel looks better without wings... but not like that. And where did his braid go? His hair just looks tied in now. And I suppose he's wearing the medallion in a hand. Meaning he'll probably drop it, and the headwings will go poof...!
I gather that this has been beaten to death here already, then, and the argument throughly refuted. I withdraw my statement, then.
And anthor note..We dont know who the cubi parent is so shush your faces for now and watch and read
I've always simply adored that sort of expression. The kind that says, "I'm horribly-horribly broken. Hold me, but don't get too close."
Yes.
Quote from: Sienna Maiu - M T on February 17, 2007, 01:16:11 AM
I've always simply adored that sort of expression. The kind that says, "I'm horribly-horribly broken. Hold me, but don't get too close."
Yes.
Abel's? I thought his was more of a "My mind is shattering. Can you help me stay sane without getting too close to me?" This strip makes me really wonder what's gonna on next comic and how Abel's day may or may not get better or worse.
Quote from: Schol-R-LEA on February 17, 2007, 01:01:08 AMI gather that this has been beaten to death here already, then, and the argument throughly refuted. I withdraw my statement, then.
No offense intended, sir. You may actually be right. Amber's done defter misdirection before. It's just that this comes up a lot, and the rest of us can recite the entire discussion from memory.
Just wanted to get that response out of the way.
Poor poor Abel. He will never be sane again. :cry
There's not a lot we can get from May's reaction, other than shock. After getting over the fact that Abel looks like he's been through the ringer, she will notice that somethings missing. And then go into hysterics. :mwaha
I think the initial shock is from seeing his wings missing, although even if he still had them, his face says plenty.
Poor Abel. :( *Hugs*
I would have thrown a pie at able :<
I'm tired.
Itchy, tasty 41
My reaction wouldn't be so cartoony, it'd be more like: "What the heck's wrong with you?...." After he explains: "Okay, yer friends are dead, what do ya want me do about it?"
'Cause I'm blunt like nobody's business. Plus he's gotta learn to deal with tragedy on his own.
Superb. Just superb.
**EDIT**
And he certainly has been running. Probably not all the way, though as Superluser pointed out in an earlier thread.
Poor Abel. He looks broken beyond belief. -hugs the abel- That expression is superbly well done.
Poor Abel, he almost looks like my "flu face" last week :( If it wans't for the fact he'd probably scream or have a nervous breakdown I'd offer him a cookie.
Quote from: superluser on February 17, 2007, 12:23:22 AM
She knows. That's not the reaction of someone who is surprised at something unexpected (like finding someone without his wings), but pf someone who knows that it's come time to face the music.
That's the reaction of a loving mother to her son coming home looking like death warmed over with parts of his body missing.
It's the haunted 'I've got nothing else' look physical and emotional drained, he might not even see his mothers there for a moment, just stare into space and slowly slide down the door.
Quote from: MT Hazard on February 17, 2007, 07:12:47 AM
It's the haunted 'I've got nothing else' look physical and emotional drained, he might not even see his mothers there for a moment, just stare into space and slowly slide down the door.
Let's not forget he'll probably drop the amulet in that time and all four wings appear from nowhere as he curls up into a fetal position.
-Nar
Wow, poor Abel. =/ He definitely looks like nothing short of traumatized, and I don't blame him. Especially after all he's been through... and something tells me (well, and so does the storytelling pattern) that things are only going to get worse. Maybe not filled with death and destruction, but full of emotional devastation, which is only adding gasoline to the flame.
~Keaton the Black Jackal
I think Abel's Momma is going to have to come clean about something. Either her genealogy or Abel's real parentage, because his Cubi-hood is something apparent now, and you don't catch Cubi from toilet seats. Unless it's a Cubi shapeshifted into a toilet. But that's just weird. :mowdizzy
Or a doorknob.
Quote from: Regal on February 17, 2007, 05:26:58 AMThat's the reaction of a loving mother to her son coming home looking like death warmed over with parts of his body missing.
Actually, she may not even notice that he's missing wings yet.
Look at panel 3 in A28 (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Abel_28.php). Abel's wings don't extend above his head, and sometimes they can be at least partly obscured by that head. The fear response would result in wing contraction, making them smaller and lower, anyways. She would probably have, at some level, noticed that he's leaning directly on the door, though. So would Abel.
I think that most mothers learn not to freak out when something happens to their kids, or else the kids freak out, and then it's all bad.
Of course, now she knows that she's going to have to explain things and she's freaking out because she knows that things are going to be very bad for her.
You're assuming she has an answer, there, superluser. After all - it may be that, as far as she knows, she -has- been faithful to Cid.
Which then, of course, makes the entire discussion even messier...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on February 17, 2007, 11:49:07 AMYou're assuming she has an answer, there, superluser. After all - it may be that, as far as she knows, she -has- been faithful to Cid.
I had not made that assumption until this strip. Her reaction makes her look like she knows something.
Quote from: superluser on February 17, 2007, 11:33:47 AM
Abel's wings don't extend above his head, and sometimes they can be at least partly obscured by that head. The fear response would result in wing contraction, making them smaller and lower, anyways.
What did you base that on, out of interest? In most creatures, especially predators, the fear response involves making themselves look larger, e.g. hackles on a dog, a cat puffing itself up, crests on various species of bird.
Also, 'cubi tend to fluff their wings out when startled. Dan does that a lot and I don't think it's specific to him alone - probably most feathered creatures in DMFA will do that.
I just had a revelation, guys.
...That skull-thing hides wings like a patch. O:
Go on and shoot me if this was already realized.
Quote from: Tapewolf on February 17, 2007, 01:07:03 PMWhat did you base that on, out of interest? In most creatures, especially predators, the fear response involves making themselves look larger, e.g. hackles on a dog, a cat puffing itself up, crests on various species of bird.
Also, 'cubi tend to fluff their wings out when startled. Dan does that a lot and I don't think it's specific to him alone - probably most feathered creatures in DMFA will do that.
There's a difference between the initial response and the later response. The initial response is arousal, caused by one hormone that's reabsorbed quickly. The later response is anxiety (symptoms include muscle tension) caused by a different hormone that takes longer to reabsorb. I think I got this from my doctor brother, but I'll have to ask him about it.
I don't know, I think her first reaction is pretty accurate for what anyone would do seeing the expression on his face and the condition he's in.
"OH MY GOD!!!", and all. Then she gets a quarter-breath and starts worrying about her son.
Quote from: Mashi on February 17, 2007, 01:22:18 PM
I just had a revelation, guys.
...That skull-thing hides wings like a patch. O:
Go on and shoot me if this was already realized.
*shoots you*
:P
Cubi seem to have a larval stage in which they appear to be regular beings; it is possible that she is just genetically a very late bloomer.
There is also the possibility that Abel belongs to a Cubi class that has undergone Neoteny like modern dogs changing from wolves.
Dogs can revert to their wild wolf state very quickly, all it takes is a couple of generations.
Possibly Abel is a genetic throwback that has reverted to the wild Cubi state.
Quote from: BillBuckner on February 17, 2007, 03:07:26 PM
Quote from: Mashi on February 17, 2007, 01:22:18 PM
I just had a revelation, guys.
...That skull-thing hides wings like a patch. O:
Go on and shoot me if this was already realized.
*shoots you*
:P
*dies* :<
That's what I get for leaving for...several months and not checking posts.
Quote from: superluser on February 17, 2007, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on February 17, 2007, 01:07:03 PMWhat did you base that on, out of interest? In most creatures, especially predators, the fear response involves making themselves look larger, e.g. hackles on a dog, a cat puffing itself up, crests on various species of bird.
Also, 'cubi tend to fluff their wings out when startled. Dan does that a lot and I don't think it's specific to him alone - probably most feathered creatures in DMFA will do that.
There's a difference between the initial response and the later response. The initial response is arousal, caused by one hormone that's reabsorbed quickly. The later response is anxiety (symptoms include muscle tension) caused by a different hormone that takes longer to reabsorb. I think I got this from my doctor brother, but I'll have to ask him about it.
What I think you're trying to explain: The immediate response to a fear stimulus dumps a lot of epinephrine and norepinephrine into your system. That's the "fight or flight" reaction that makes your heart beat really fast and your hair stand on end (in animals, that's fluffing up; in humans, it's mostly just goosebumps). It only lasts long enough to escape the danger or beat the crap out of it. The elevated corticosteroid levels responsible for that anxious, stressed-out feeling stick around for a while afterwards. The avian HPA axis is actually quite similar to that of mammals, and they tend to have similar responses to stress.
I don't see how that supports your wing shrinkage theory, however. Making oneself look smaller is hardly a universal stress response, and in any event wouldn't be directly mediated by steroid levels.
Quote from: Zorro on February 17, 2007, 03:10:30 PM
Cubi seem to have a larval stage in which they appear to be regular beings; it is possible that she is just genetically a very late bloomer.
Hmm... what gave you that idea? All of the immature Cubi presented in the comic had wings since birth and were obviously "different" from other Beings.
May is certainly aging, or appearing to age; it's unlikely that she'd suddenly sprout wings when old and grey while millenia-old Cubi are still in the prime of their lives. Thus, it's safe to assume that if she is the Cubi, then she's both aware of her nature and able to hide it. In that case, however, I don't see why she didn't have "the talk" with her son back when the clan symbol first popped up.
Quote from: Schol-R-LEA on February 17, 2007, 12:53:36 AM
His mother never cheated on his father...
It's his mother who is the succubus.
Hi all. First time post here. I've been reading the comic for a long time and really loving it. After reading a bit on this thread I feel compelled to put my 2 cents in.
I agree with the above statement, even though some have presented evidence that this may not be true. I have personally suspected that Abel got his "cubi"ness from his mom for some time now. We know that most cubi's don't eat much (Dan was living off of ale...) and in an eariler comic Abel's dad makes a comment about Abel's lack of appetite "You're almost as bad as May is! I'm surprised you both don't just waste away.." It was also May's idea to move and send Abel to a demon school, and while at the school it's hinted that May might be able to learn some magic.
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Abel_29.php
I think May is definitely hiding her heritage. (Or maybe his Dad knows...)
Wow, you took part your evidence out of context.
1) The reason for the move to a more accepting school was because May felt that the other being children were picking on him, and they were. This is typical of any caring parent. Plus it was the TEACHER who advised magic, not May.
2) When you grow old, your appetite changes. Or she thinks she needs to lose weight, typical of several women. Also, Cid might be adjusted to larger portions than those served at the house, which would cause him to see May eat less and think that meager is now practically nothing.
Nah, personally I feel the reference to not eating very much "like your mother" was foreshadowing. It just seemed to me all the while reading this story that May is a Cubi who's just never told Cid.
Then again, I always seem to jump to the logical conclusion riiiiight before a plot twist, so there's always the escape clause "I could be wrong." :)
For those who just joined us (ie, Azraelle, Valynth, magpie_roost, zorro, and yes, you, superluser) Amber has already said - Cubi inherit most of their colouring from the parent who -isn't- a Cubi. In this case, Abel looks most like May, so May isn't the Cubi.
Unless it's an exception, which is possible, but unlikely.
Would you like me to find references?
Quote from: Aisha deCabre on February 17, 2007, 12:31:39 AM
Holy...poor Abel, he looks utterly wept-out...
And I dunno, a mother's first reaction might be to the mood that her son is in. A consoling comfort before noticing that the wings are gone.
Ok.. I really am Not paying attneion.. I didn't see his wings were missing till I read this..
Quote from: Tezkat on February 17, 2007, 04:03:15 PMMay is certainly aging, or appearing to age; it's unlikely that she'd suddenly sprout wings when old and grey while millenia-old Cubi are still in the prime of their lives. Thus, it's safe to assume that if she is the Cubi, then she's both aware of her nature and able to hide it. In that case, however, I don't see why she didn't have "the talk" with her son back when the clan symbol first popped up.
All very good points.. Cid and May are both aging. After a point it appears that Cubi stop aging. If she was a cubi and hiding it she would have known what the clan symbol was, because she would have one too.
llearch, can you find that refrence?
MMmm such possibilities you people think of.
I was just going with "OMG! You look like you just ran home and are scared to death from seeing two people killed before your eyes by some winged demon mare and her friends!"
:< But I'm simple that way with my interpretations :B
I realize that my suspicion about May could be totally off base. Especially with rules that have already been set forth about which parent the child will take his looks and abilities from. Yes, there can be exceptions, but generally consistency reigns. (Of course Abel does tend to exhibit a lot of feminine traits, so if he were an exception it might almost make sense.)
I'm just sharing my hunches, and if Amber does another wonderful plot twist, I'm sure I'll be pleased either way.
Concerning...
Quote from: Valynth on February 17, 2007, 05:40:45 PM
Wow, you took part your evidence out of context.
1) The reason for the move to a more accepting school was because May felt that the other being children were picking on him, and they were. This is typical of any caring parent. Plus it was the TEACHER who advised magic, not May.
2) When you grow old, your appetite changes.
I don't think I was really out of context.
1) Yea, I know she wanted to go there 'cause Abel was being picked on, but it does seem interesting she was so comfortable with the idea of moving to a demon city. As for the teacher advising magic, I wasn't referring to the teacher advising May that Abel could be taught magic. I was referring to the teacher suggesting that *May* might benefit from learning magic. So it has been established that there is reason to believe that May is capable of using magic.
2) Yes, this is true, but the section rang as foreshadowing to me. I could be absolutely wrong, and that's cool. It just seemed like the comment wasn't random.
And yes May is "aging" but that could be a shape-shift.
Though if she were truely hiding something, I don't know why she'd hide it from her hubbie. He seems like such a sweetie.
Speculation Time: the first words out of May's mouth in the next update will be something along the lines of "what happened to your wings?" or "who cutt off your wings?"
and abel will respond by curling into a little ball of mental confusion "C-can't stay...it will get me...can't stay... it will get me" by it I am referring to the great unknown evil, and Abel's more recently aqired Devin personality will have to take over wondering what the hell it is doing in Abel's body, and then we'll have a parody of the three faces of eve and then it will be revealed that Cid is the father of devin Also, so it all worked out in the end.
Quote from: magpie_roost on February 17, 2007, 08:42:00 PM
1) Yea, I know she wanted to go there 'cause Abel was being picked on, but it does seem interesting she was so comfortable with the idea of moving to a demon city. As for the teacher advising magic, I wasn't referring to the teacher advising May that Abel could be taught magic. I was referring to the teacher suggesting that *May* might benefit from learning magic. So it has been established that there is reason to believe that May is capable of using magic.
uh, beings use magic too you know, it isn't 'cubi exclusive. May might just be one of the exceptions mentioned in the being portion of the Demo.
Quote from: aurawyn on February 17, 2007, 08:08:45 PM
llearch, can you find that refrence?
... well, without going through every single post that Amber has made in the last however long, the search engine throws up three points...
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1779.msg73030#msg73030
... mention of an earlier post on being/creature hybrids
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1313.msg49893#msg49893
... gender swap irregularities, and births afterwards
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1369.msg55694#msg55694
.. being/creature, briefly (no)
The first is lengthy, the second irrelevant (Amber is pontificating on a different subject altogether, vis-a-vis could Dan have a pregnancy whilst masquerading as Alexsi - short answer, no) and the third is simply "Being/Creature don't always have a Creature." Which might be what she's referencing in the first one....
None of these are really the reference you're looking for, though...
Quote from: Stygian on February 17, 2007, 12:59:30 AM
...And I suppose he's wearing the medallion in a hand. Meaning he'll probably drop it, and the headwings will go poof...!
Actually, if you look at the last panel, I think that's it in his left hand.
Ooo!
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1514.msg59347#msg59347
That's what you wanted, aurawyn.
Quote from: Valynth on February 17, 2007, 10:49:12 PM
uh, beings use magic too you know,
That's true. I just thought all the little pieces were interesting when put all together. You're probably right. However it resolves itself, I'm just glad this comic seems to have such an interesting well thought out storyline behind it.
{magpie_roost ducking back into lurking status...}
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on February 17, 2007, 11:50:41 PM
Ooo!
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1514.msg59347#msg59347
That's what you wanted, aurawyn.
I don't
believe that wasn't in the Wiki. It is now, although it might want a little re-editing.
The fact that May didn't recognise Abels clan mark proves to me that she is not a cubi.
I have no idea if 1) Cid is cubi, 2) May unknowingly did the thing with a Cid-impersonator or 3) May knowingly did the thing with somebody who is not Cid.
Forthermore :ipod is just too cool not to use.
Quote from: Stig Hemmer on February 18, 2007, 09:48:24 AM
The fact that May didn't recognise Abels clan mark proves to me that she is not a cubi.
While that and the Creature-Being hybrid stuff makes it highly likely, it isn't conclusive proof. She could be feigning ignorance so as not to spook Cid into some kind of 'kill-the-soul-stealing-monsters' rage (and meaning to tell Abel about it later) or she could be hoping that Abel is not a 'cubi for some reason, and therefore doesn't want to believe that it's a clanmark.
**EDIT**
She could even have been trying to find out if
Abel knows what it is.
May could be a cubi. Don't forget that an experienced cubi doesn't simply roam around wantonly absorbing thoughts and emotions. She simply might not have her cubi-dar on at the moment. :3
Quote from: Tapewolf on February 18, 2007, 10:53:46 AMWhile that and the Creature-Being hybrid stuff makes it highly likely, it isn't conclusive proof. She could be feigning ignorance so as not to spook Cid into some kind of 'kill-the-soul-stealing-monsters' rage (and meaning to tell Abel about it later) or she could be hoping that Abel is not a 'cubi for some reason, and therefore doesn't want to believe that it's a clanmark.
May might not even have a mark. She has shown no interest in learning magic, after all. It's not impossible that her parents didn't have marks, either.
...IN FACT...
It would be odd that Amber would have gone through the trouble of establishing that May is not interested in learning magic without having any intention of having that information be relevant later.
Furthermore, Abel knows that markings are linked to magic use. This might be the sort of thing covered in health class, but it might just as likely be explained as puberty or `cubi puberty.
For once I agree. It seems a bit strange that when living in a demon city, Abel would have heard nothing of clan markings. I mean, sure, "...this is demon country!" and he might not be interested, but Luser does in fact have a point. It should be something that's not that hard to learn... Not to mention, according to the comic, Abel is a librarian (that's fun...) and would probably come in contact with books that pertain to this.
Here's another point.
It's possible May declined to learn magic... because she already knows.
Of course, that goes against the info Amber has already provided, that I looked up...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on February 18, 2007, 07:35:19 PMIt's possible May declined to learn magic... because she already knows.
Yes. This is more than slightly possible.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on February 18, 2007, 07:35:19 PMOf course, that goes against the info Amber has already provided, that I looked up...
What info is that?
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1514.msg59347#msg59347
Linked in this thread. I would have expected you to read it, though...
To whit: Cubi/Being hybrids tend to look like the Being parent. Abel looks like May. Ergo, May is not Cubi. Quod Erat Demonstratum.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on February 18, 2007, 08:30:12 PMhttp://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1514.msg59347#msg59347
Linked in this thread. I would have expected you to read it, though...
*hem*
You said that May might not want to learn magic because she already knew it. Then you said that this couldn't be true because of what Amber said. This implies that Amber said something about May not knowing magic.
And then you point out that Amber said that `cubi-being hybrids tend to resemble the being. That doesn't have anything to do with whether May knows magic.
True. My meaning, however, was that "May may know magic because she's a Cubi" which is, obviously, counter to Amber's statement - the general thrust of the argument being various people claiming May is a Cubi.
My apologies. I shall endeavour to speak a little more volubly, and a little less circuitously. :-)
May may know magic, but is definitely not a Cubi, unless Amber is just playing with us. Which is always possible. Amber has also stated that Beings tend to not know magic - Merlitz is an obvious exception, but he's unusual, or so she says - so why would Kria offer to teach it to her? Is Magic something -anyone- may learn, but beings tend not to? Or is is just something that you need the 'knack' to pick up?
If the latter, what reason does Amber have for suggesting May has the knack?
In summation: May may or may not be a Cubi, although evidence (in the form of Abel) suggests not. May may or may not have the knack for Magic, and that may or may not be significant. And, finally, it's still unknown why neither May nor Cid identified the Cubi marking on Abel - or at least feigned ignorance. For years.
Ah, sweet possibilities. :-)
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on February 19, 2007, 08:44:07 AM
And, finally, it's still unknown why neither May nor Cid identified the Cubi marking on Abel - or at least feigned ignorance. For years.
The impression I had was that May only just noticed it because Abel had spent the last few years away at Uni.