http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_759.php (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_759.php)
So Lorenda doesn't share the same feelings for Jyrras, so sad.
Well yeah.. cause then Jy might end up with a female. And we all know that 3/4th the forum would want to kill Lorenda for it. :T
How many times has Kria offered to do that? :dface Lorenda must've been wildy popular in Twink Territories.
Something's going on with Kria's face. It's like her nasal cavity is moving up and down. Ah, well. It still looks nice.
Hey, I've got an idea. Lorenda can break off all ties with Jyrras and take all of their mutual friends with her when she does that. Hey, it worked for me when I tried telling a friend that I had feelings for her. Oh, wait--no it didn't. :cry
Quote from: Roureem Egas on March 08, 2007, 07:52:48 PMLorenda must've been wildy popular in Twink Territories.
Nah. Wildy doesn't seem that popular in Twink Territories.
So if Lorenda moves out, will she get custody of the bubblegum? :kirby
I'm starting to get the feeling that Jyrras is not gonna end up with anyone.
Kind of cold, Lorenda, after he let you live with him for so long, and even let you into his inner sanctum.
Feeeellliiiingg..Nothing but bucha..feellings.....*sings on the mic while leaning on a piano*
Poor Jy-Jy -hugs for Jy-
Kria is amusing as usual =D
Quote from: Kenji on March 08, 2007, 07:49:45 PM
Well yeah.. cause then Jy might end up with a female. And we all know that 3/4th the forum would want to kill Lorenda for it. :T
I'd prefer him ending up with a female. I'm sick of seeing gay couples created by women though; if I see one more AkuRoku anything I'm going to scream. Uggh, bishonen.
Though personally Jyrras and Lorenda seem a bit of a mismatch. Jyrras needs to find some sort of nerdy girl who can keep up with him intellectually. I think Lorenda is smart yeah, but I don't think they have much in common.
Quote from: Manawolf on March 08, 2007, 08:18:18 PM
I'm starting to get the feeling that Jyrras is not gonna end up with anyone.
Kind of cold, Lorenda, after he let you live with him for so long, and even let you into his inner sanctum.
How is that cold? She was living with him as a roommate, not a potential romantic interest; there's no reason she should like him romantically, and she feels awkward and doesn't like that it will hurt Jyrras' feelings. Its not like she owes him anything in a romantic capacity.
And thanks for the early update!
She may move back to Jy's place soon after anyway, after she has her mother breathing down her neck 24/7 and if she finds out what Kria's mission involving Jyrras has been.
Lor: "What's this photo? It looks like a steamed up window."
Quote from: Kattuccino on March 08, 2007, 08:29:07 PM
Quote from: Kenji on March 08, 2007, 07:49:45 PM
Well yeah.. cause then Jy might end up with a female. And we all know that 3/4th the forum would want to kill Lorenda for it. :T
Though personally Jyrras and Lorenda seem a bit of a mismatch. Jyrras needs to find some sort of nerdy girl who can keep up with him intellectually. I think Lorenda is smart yeah, but I don't think they have much in common.
Right then. Now to just figure out how to clone Jouster as a female, and we're set...
Quote from: Amber WilliamsIt was so tempting to make a Tigger reference in this.
I don't see why. Help, please?
Why does it seem like Lorenda is being more mature about this than Kria is?
Quote from: Manawolf on March 08, 2007, 08:18:18 PMKind of cold, Lorenda, after he let you live with him for so long, and even let you into his inner sanctum.
Yeah. If my previous comments on this weren't clear enough--Lorenda's method is precisely the wrong way to deal with situations like this one.
Let me tell you how it will play out. Lorenda says that she wants to be friends with Jyrras, nothing more. She means it. She then says that she needs to move out, that it would be awkward to live together, and that they should probably have some time apart to sort things out. Jyrras thinks, ``OK. Fine. I've obviously been too forward, and I'll just let her decide when to let things move forward on a friendly basis.''
Lorenda doesn't realize it until she's living independently, but if she initiates contact with Jyrras, then it could be taken as a cue for renewed romantic interest. Jyrras is not so stupid as to take it that way, but Lorenda can't take that chance.
As a result, Jyrras and Lorenda can never speak to each other ever again. Lorenda should be smart enough to realize that this is not the proper way to deal with troubling situations like this one.
Quote from: superluser on March 08, 2007, 08:38:35 PM
Quote from: Manawolf on March 08, 2007, 08:18:18 PMKind of cold, Lorenda, after he let you live with him for so long, and even let you into his inner sanctum.
Lorenda doesn't realize it until she's living independently, but if she initiates contact with Jyrras, then it could be taken as a cue for renewed romantic interest. Jyrras is not so stupid as to take it that way, but Lorenda can't take that chance.
As a result, Jyrras and Lorenda can never speak to each other ever again.
Yep, that's the only possible way the situation could ever work itself out. I mean, it's not like they don't have mutual friends who they would hang out together with down the line or anything =P
That said though, I do think it may be a bit harsh dealing with the situation in this way, but then again, there isn't really a "right" way to turn someone down; just varying degrees of wrong ways. Same with break-ups.
Gah, it's my off day. I need to stop loitering around online and write that bio lab paper.
*Charline grins* All his love interests have failed! Thus the way is paved for Jyrras to transform into the mad scientist as portrayed in the novel! And thus the Creature Council will be given their reason to KILL HIM!!! >:3
Quote from: Alondro on March 08, 2007, 08:47:16 PM
*Charline grins* All his love interests have failed! Thus the way is paved for Jyrras to transform into the mad scientist as portrayed in the novel! And thus the Creature Council will be given their reason to KILL HIM!!! >:3
...and then inevitably fail in this their endeavour. Sweets,
no one's going to get to Jyrras...
Kria's antics never fail... XD
Quote from: modelincard on March 08, 2007, 08:38:21 PM
Why does it seem like Lorenda is being more mature about this than Kria is?
um...cuz she is? =shrugs=
As far as I can see, things could either happen 2 ways:
1) Lorenda tells Jy how she feels and we have the same result that happened with Dan. And he cries, etc. But Lorenda stays. Or leaves.
2) Lorenda avoids talking to Jy and moves out. As soon as she is gone, Kria moves in. Madness ensues. As usual.
Basically, my mind is stuck on whether they confront the issue or not. I think Abel is going to come into play as well, somehow.
Quote from: Kenji on March 08, 2007, 08:35:58 PM
Now to just figure out how to clone Jouster as a female, and we're set...
I thought Equidna already accomplished that.
Quote from: Kattuccino on March 08, 2007, 08:44:38 PMYep, that's the only possible way the situation could ever work itself out. I mean, it's not like they don't have mutual friends who they would hang out together with down the line or anything =P
Well, Lorenda originally lived in Twink Territories, several hours away from Lost Lake. I'm not sure where Kria lives, but it's probably not near Lost Lake, or else they wouldn't have needed Azlan to tell them that people were dying. So that means that Lorenda will have little opportunity to visit their mutual friends in Lost Lake.
Does no one in this comic like Jyrras?
What's going on??
Edited because I didn't see page 159 when I posted :B
Quote from: Aurawyn on March 08, 2007, 09:14:51 PMI Think i missed something, everyone else is posting like she knows he likes her.. Where are we getting this from?
http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_611.php
This was just mentioned in the 758 thread, but a few of us remembered it prior to that.
Oops.. I clicked on something wrong and didn't get to #759 For some reason till just now :B
:< Poor Jy-Jy gets rejected again. How sad. :cry
But on a much brighter note, I've stopped lurking! Now you shall all feel my wrath! :mwaha
Quote from: Moonfrost on March 08, 2007, 09:23:58 PM
But on a much brighter note, I've stopped lurking! Now you shall all feel my wrath! :mwaha
My mom says I'm not allowed to feel other people's wrath. But welcome nonetheless.
Quote from: Kenji on March 08, 2007, 09:24:49 PM
Quote from: Moonfrost on March 08, 2007, 09:23:58 PM
But on a much brighter note, I've stopped lurking! Now you shall all feel my wrath! :mwaha
My mom says I'm not allowed to feel other people's wrath. But welcome nonetheless.
:U Thanks.
P.S. :boogie Your mom rocks. I wish my mom could make me do things.
wai... no I dont :)
I like Jyrras ... I want him to be happy. Then again, that goal might be more easily achieved if he stopped falling in love with EVERYONE. What next? Will he fall in love with Wildy? Alexsi? Pip? The "let Jyrras down easy" line will have a numbered ticket dispenser at the head.
Quote from: Azraelle on March 08, 2007, 09:30:31 PM
I like Jyrras ... I want him to be happy. Then again, that goal might be more easily achieved if he stopped falling in love with EVERYONE. What next? Will he fall in love with Wildy? Alexsi? Pip? The "let Jyrras down easy" line will have a numbered ticket dispenser at the head.
:erk Pip? That just seems wrong. Pip is cute and all, but... nah.
I can see him ending up with Wildy :) That would be cute. Not to metnion they would make a great couple :hug
Quote from: Moonfrost on March 08, 2007, 09:35:10 PMI can see him ending up with Wildy :) That would be cute. Not to metnion they would make a great couple :hug
I think that they would make a terribly unhealthy couple. I can see co-dependence issues out the wazoo for these two. Cute and stable, though.
Hmm so many couple ideas
Jyrras is putting alot of effort into it though he finally had his talk with dan and he would've talked to lorenda if his sisters wouldn't have been there.
Jyrras/Nobody? You know, I actually considered this, back in the day, and actually wouldn't have minded seeing it. I mean, if such a setup would be realistic for anyone, it'd be the shy nerdy guy. (I can attest to this.)
But given the sheer number of potential love interests (including Kria, to hear the forumites tell it), I never thought I'd actually see it. Wow. An unorthodox plot twist in its own right, assuming it does indeed come off. Who else but Amber?...
Numbers....so many numbers, which thread should I post in???
and what does amber mean by
QuoteIt was so tempting to make a Tigger reference in this.
I don't get the refrence, however I suspect pooh is involved.
Quote from: Manawolf on March 08, 2007, 08:18:18 PM
I'm starting to get the feeling that Jyrras is not gonna end up with anyone.
Kind of cold, Lorenda, after he let you live with him for so long, and even let you into his inner sanctum.
kind of feel sorry for the roo rat but at least she's not angry at him.
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 08, 2007, 10:14:20 PM
Numbers....so many numbers, which thread should I post in???
and what does amber mean by
QuoteIt was so tempting to make a Tigger reference in this.
I don't get the refrence, however I suspect pooh is involved.
I'm guessing it has to do with Kria's "ooh ooh!"-ing. A monkey joke doesn't seem like it'd be funny there.
All I really have to say is NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!
No Jyrras/Lorenda? *sniffle*
Jyrras/Abel... possible? :B
Jyrras/Kria would be BAD NEWS!!! :mowmeep
Jyrras+Wildy=hawt
I dont think abel would be estatic about going with jyrass he doesn't seem to like him thinking he's nice. For example when jyrass hugs him.
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 08, 2007, 10:14:20 PMand what does amber mean byQuoteIt was so tempting to make a Tigger reference in this.
Wasn't there a bit about ``Bouncing...it's what Tiggers do best?'' I would have expected something like ``Killing! It's what Demon-mares do best!''
That makes sense i guess i've looked at it several times and thats the best thing ive heard yet...
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 08, 2007, 10:25:03 PM
Jyrras+Wildy=hawt
But she already has a Love/Hate relationship with Dan.
I still think my take on what "could" have happened was arguably funnier, but Amber's 759 is still funny, and really unexpected. Talk about pulling a 180 in the middle of a conversation.
Quote from: Manawolf on March 08, 2007, 10:37:29 PMBut she already has a Love/Hate relationship with Dan.
No, they have a casual sex relationship. (Or one-night stand? I'm not sure) There seems to be no romance involved.
Now what would be hilarious would be Jy Ending up with that dude it looked like he was going to Tranquilize way back when.
Also, what?!
Quote from: superluser on March 08, 2007, 10:41:51 PM
Quote from: Manawolf on March 08, 2007, 10:37:29 PMBut she already has a Love/Hate relationship with Dan.
No, they have a casual sex relationship. (Or one-night stand? I'm not sure) There seems to be no romance involved.
Quote from: Jim Halisstrad on March 08, 2007, 10:42:57 PMAlso, what?!Quote from: superluser on March 08, 2007, 10:41:51 PMQuote from: Manawolf on March 08, 2007, 10:37:29 PMBut she already has a Love/Hate relationship with Dan.
No, they have a casual sex relationship. (Or one-night stand? I'm not sure) There seems to be no romance involved.
What do you mean, what (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_046.php)?
P.S. It could happen (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_047.php).
Hey, I chain people to the wall all the time and there is never any sex involved.
Quote from: Jim Halisstrad on March 08, 2007, 10:50:28 PMHey, I chain people to the wall all the time and there is never any sex involved.
Well, it says that Dan was having fun, so I just assumed...
I guess it could have just been cuddling. In chains. And leather. Cuddling with whips. And brands.
so you're implying that all Dan and Wildy have in common is chains, and whips?
what about the same initials (sizzle sound and scent of burnning flesh)
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 08, 2007, 11:08:06 PMso you're implying that all Dan and Wildy have in common is chains, and whips?
I'm saying that I don't see any romance. Jim seems to be saying that they're having a friendly game of BDSM.
``I say, what ho! Shall we to our drawing room where I can make you squeal like a pig, and after that, a quick game of skittles?''
Maybe it's just me, but I think that anyone of the male characters in the cast, and one of the female, would go well together with Wildy. She's hot enough for anything. Which of course makes her an unknown factor, so I don't think that you can presume immediately that she's done anything with anyone. Since she could have done it all with everyone, basically.
I agree with that wildy does have many different aspects to her still the whole relationship thing is getting some what repetitive dont you think? alexi and pyroduck merlitz and aary dan and matilda and now jyrras is in the playing field...im rather curious to see what happens next...
What's wrong with Lorenda!? Jyrras is adorible and probably has colossal bedroom stamina!
And he can make death rays! How many boyfriends do you know that can make death rays? Honestly!
Oh well, guess Jyrras will just have to slowly Break the Cubi with his dapper wit, and then when the time is right POUNCE DA ABEL! :boogie
Well whatever jyrras does he'd best decide fast before he does something really bad.
Ok, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but what about Kria/Jy? Gay couples from women artists have gotten kind of old (No offense to the artist). I think Jy should end up with a female, preferably Kria. I mean, if you're going to have a mismatch (and no offense, but Jy seems alittle...Immature when it comes to relationships, let alone gay ones. I mean, the whole thing with Dan looks like misplaced affection and wierd left-overs from his relationship with his mother) Then have the really awesome one. It's not terribly odd either, seeing as his dad went for (albiet accidentally) a domineering type, and things worked out well there. And it's well known that men go after women like their mothers....
So, any takers?
if i recall lorenda thinking the Dr. Jyrras book was enthralling and most likely 'hawt' as well. to me it is fully possible that when she hears that he has a crush on two 'hawt' guys that she will stay around, and possibly install hidden cameras, on the off chance that 'hawt' man-love is a possibility and that jyjy is not exactly torn up that he cannot get himself a nice piece of steak.
QuoteI am the terror that flaps in the night! I am the wrong number that wakes you at 3am! I am a special news bulletin that interrupts your favorite show! I am the ten dollar service charge on all returned checks!
Hmmm, a heterosexual relationship... surprisingly, that is a rather novel idea these days.
OK... Widley would go great with Dark-Pegasus, they have many things in common including world domination.
But I think Lorenda is really jumping the gun and making conclusions a little to quickly. Jyrras is a smart guy and doesn't like to take risks, and the biggest risk he won't take is loosing a friend.
He even said that he didn't want to send mixed signals and a few other comforting things amongst the chaos he was saying to Lorenda about his conflicting heart's emotions.
He and Dan managed to get things settled and all it took was an unusual and terrifying start, it ended on a park bench over the course of a few hours and a nice long silence.
It should be known by now that whatever I do, its generally not because its what people want but rather its how the story ended up being presented. That said, if any relationships happen with any character, be it straight or gay, it isn't because I particularly agree with said pair or endorse it, but its just how the story ended up going. If Jyrras does end up with someone, or if he ends up alone, it is because that is how the story played out and how his character dealt with the situation.
That said, I wont lie in that I feel pretty insulted that because I have tits, if I ever end up with a gay couple(unless its lesbians I guess. Cause I guess its only safe now to draw lesbians in a relationship), it will be "ho hum cliche". I might joke about the shonen-ai stuff, but in terms of actual character relationships, I take it very seriously. The fact people look at it as "hetero couple/gay couple" rather than "Jyrras with someone he cares about, both of whom are individuals in their own right", indicates more that I have somehow failed in trying to get the point across that the characters are unique individuals with their own agendas and own traits.
Maybe its because I have gay friends, but I'd feel very offended if I was told because I'm a girl hanging out with gay guys, I'm in it for the personal fantasy aspect. Oh wait...I have been told that. And it is offending. All my gay friends aren't being gay because they feel its trendy, its the way they are. It's one of the many aspects to their multi-faceted personality. While some people might be look at them and be like "gay gay gay gay gay", they are more than just who they are paired with. And its no different for any of my characters. If a character ends up with another character, it isnt because of "gay gay straight straight", its because in the course of the comic and their "lives", something has brought them to this conclusion about themselves.
Maybe I'm not making much sense. But it really does feel like a burn for some reason.
Quote from: Brunhidden da Muse on March 09, 2007, 01:02:59 AM
if i recall lorenda thinking the Dr. Jyrras book was enthralling and most likely 'hawt' as well. to me it is fully possible that when she hears that he has a crush on two 'hawt' guys that she will stay around, and possibly install hidden cameras, on the off chance that 'hawt' man-love is a possibility and that jyjy is not exactly torn up that he cannot get himself a nice piece of steak.
IS IT
CAN IT
BE JYRRAS/LORENDA/ABEL TIEM NOW PLS?!?!?!?!?!
:boogie
*EDIT*
I feel a little sheepish about this post now that I saw what Amber posted above... :B
'course I figure I'm allowed to be patheticly grasping at joining up characters I like on the fairly shallow motivation that I think they'd be at least fun as, ah, COUPLES. :U
I don't understand all the complaints about gay pairings. I mean, come on now. Out of all the official pairings and couples, how many are gay? None. Out of, oh, around twenty of so characters, how many have even mentioned that they might not be straight? Only one(two, if we count Xander).
So now there's the possibility that MAYBE Jyrras will end up with another guy, and it's suddenly cliche and overdone? And the only reason for this is because Amber's a chick?
Come on, now.
Quote from: Zina on March 09, 2007, 02:20:56 AM
I don't understand all the complaints about gay pairings. I mean, come on now. Out of all the official pairings and couples, how many are gay? None. Out of, oh, around twenty of so characters, how many have even mentioned that they might not be straight? Only one(two, if we count Xander).
So now there's the possibility that MAYBE Jyrras will end up with another guy, and it's suddenly cliche and overdone? And the only reason for this is because Amber's a chick?
Come on, now.
Sewiously. The ratio of straight characters is still WAY over the statistical expected value. Which is more than I can say for my comic which was pretty much wall-to-wall shonen-ai up to about a year ago :B
I have no issue if people want to ship up and down the block for whatever pairing they want. But I'd rather people do so because of individual character reasons rather than a general broad statement. I mean cmon, its insulting to say the only reason a gay couple can exist is to fulfil a quota or some trendy reason. It trivializes gay relationships in general and implys one cannot have a relationship other than straight because then it isn't a "real" relationship.
Hmmm, well jy and abel would be interesting. Though I wonder if Abel has lots more horendous shocks in his arc coming.
It may have been pointed out before but the one thing I notice is that Kira appears to have one less finger per hand than most of the other characters.
Edit: But looking back so does her daughter, some kind of hooved animal thing?
Quote from: MT Hazard on March 09, 2007, 04:38:52 AM
It may have been pointed out before but the one thing I notice is that Kira appears to have one less finger per hand than most of the other characters.
Full demons seem to be like that.
**EDIT**
I take it back, Nicky has three fingers, but the mysterious demon teacher in the Abel's Story arc only had two, like Kria. Dark Pegasus too, I think.
**EDIT EDIT**
You're right, Tezkat, I meant 'Nicky' not Regina...
Damn... has Kria gone on a diet? That suit is really slimming! :mowcookie
Quote from: superluser on March 08, 2007, 11:24:09 PM
Quote from: GabrielsThoughts on March 08, 2007, 11:08:06 PMso you're implying that all Dan and Wildy have in common is chains, and whips?
I'm saying that I don't see any romance. Jim seems to be saying that they're having a friendly game of BDSM.
``I say, what ho! Shall we to our drawing room where I can make you squeal like a pig, and after that, a quick game of skittles?''
Heh... sex doesn't have to be part of a BDSM scene. I imagine there's plenty of platonic whips and chains action going on at a place like SAIA...
The Wildy x Dan dynamic doesn't really feel sexual to me, let alone romantic. It's more playful... like they never outgrew the Cowboys and Indians (um... Adventurers and Demons?) type games they'd have played as kids and now have more expensive, grown-up props. Or maybe an old master-slave relationship that's evolved beyond sex and and settled into old-married-couple territory. Granted, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Dan and Wildy did some... er... experimenting when they were younger.
Quote from: Sirios Skywolf on March 09, 2007, 12:50:06 AM
Ok, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but what about Kria/Jy? Gay couples from women artists have gotten kind of old (No offense to the artist). I think Jy should end up with a female, preferably Kria. I mean, if you're going to have a mismatch (and no offense, but Jy seems alittle...Immature when it comes to relationships, let alone gay ones. I mean, the whole thing with Dan looks like misplaced affection and wierd left-overs from his relationship with his mother) Then have the really awesome one. It's not terribly odd either, seeing as his dad went for (albiet accidentally) a domineering type, and things worked out well there. And it's well known that men go after women like their mothers....
So, any takers?
Well, I for one think that Kria x Jy would be totally hawt. That said, though, I don't see it as being a very healthy relationship--Kria is just too far out of his league. That's not to say that the fans can't have fun with it. Where did I leave my sketchbook?
:kittydevious
Ahem...
I think Jy x Abel would be very therapeutic for both of them. Unlike... well... pretty much every other member of the cast, the little roo-rat has a certain vulnerability that would circumvent Abel's normally combative emotional defense mechanisms; he's really the only guy who stands a chance of getting close to Abel. Jyrras has the wit and sensitivity to draw Abel out of his shell. Likewise, Abel is one of the few who can match Jyrras's intellect, and his kindness and experience could help Jy blossom. He also represents a "safe" choice for Jyrras--they can hook up without messing up years of platonic friendship. Despite the age difference, neither character is so dominant as to overwhelm the other, and they each bring different strengths to the table. Sure, it would be a little awkward at first, but if you think on it a little, it's the only pairing that really makes sense.
:kittylove
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 09, 2007, 04:40:10 AM
Quote from: MT Hazard on March 09, 2007, 04:38:52 AM
It may have been pointed out before but the one thing I notice is that Kira appears to have one less finger per hand than most of the other characters.
Full demons seem to be like that.
Nope... only those based on hooved animals have fewer fingers (and this seems to apply to beings as well--like the deer guy that Jyrras beat up (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_102.php)). Demons like Nicky have the normal number of digits.
Some other creatures have fewer fingers as well, like Matilda and the other Mythos in Abel's story, but Tezkat's right, it is mostly based on it being a hoofed species. It's just a coincidence that most of the hoofed creatures we've seen happen to be demons.
**EDIT**
Just to put in another 2 cents about Jy and his potential future, my main hope is that this will blow over and that everyone will end up where they're comfy with each other again (not that Jy won't continue to have his awkward moments, but more so that the typical madness we all love will once again ensue). I don't see Lorenda leaving or even becoming less of an input by leaving Lost Lake. I think she'll be the one (either her or Abel) protecting Jy from Kria. And I don't really think Jy and Wildy would make a good couple, i think they're too much of an almost sibling relationship. I don't really see Wildy hooking up with anyone really...
And do you know what Tez...You remind me of my brother but so more open minded. Widely open..Like plenty of room for me to live in.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 09, 2007, 04:51:28 AM
Quote from: superluser on March 08, 2007, 11:24:09 PM
``I say, what ho! Shall we to our drawing room where I can make you squeal like a pig, and after that, a quick game of skittles?''
Heh... sex doesn't have to be part of a BDSM scene. I imagine there's plenty of platonic whips and chains action going on at a place like SAIA...
"Shall we get together for lunch?"
"Sure, a little pain and terror sound good to you?"
.... ;-]
The way things are going, it looks like Jyrras will come on to Abel and it'll turn out that Abel is hetero.
Quote from: Sirios Skywolf on March 09, 2007, 12:50:06 AM
Ok, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but what about Kria/Jy? Gay couples from women artists have gotten kind of old (No offense to the artist). I think Jy should end up with a female, preferably Kria. I mean, if you're going to have a mismatch (and no offense, but Jy seems alittle...Immature when it comes to relationships, let alone gay ones. I mean, the whole thing with Dan looks like misplaced affection and wierd left-overs from his relationship with his mother) Then have the really awesome one. It's not terribly odd either, seeing as his dad went for (albiet accidentally) a domineering type, and things worked out well there. And it's well known that men go after women like their mothers....
So, any takers?
Yes, it's been mentioned before (as I mentioned in my earlier post). Thing is, Jyrras has never shown any signs of liking her, and seemed more disturbed/horrified/angry/intolerant? (oh noes lifestyle intolerance :O) than anything else about her tendency to, y'know, kill innocent people. As far as I know, Jyrras' mother never did anything like that.
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 09, 2007, 01:46:35 AMThat said, I wont lie in that I feel pretty insulted that because I have tits, if I ever end up with a gay couple(unless its lesbians I guess. Cause I guess its only safe now to draw lesbians in a relationship), it will be "ho hum cliche".
To be fair, I think that the point that is being raised is that the relationships don't seem like real-life gay relationships. They're more like idealized porcelain doll relationships, where the people involved sit around and look pretty and talk about how the other person looks pretty. At least, I think that's what they're saying.
Of course, I wouldn't know and am not complaining, since I don't have any gay friends. Or straight friends, for that matter.
All your friends are bi, superluser? :-)
...har-de-har-har... (predicted response)
Anyway, I don't completely discredit the Kria / Jy relationship. I just think that she will have to show a very great portion of her kindergarden teacher side before he warms up to her. And long before that, he might have hooked up with a hopefully bisexual Abel, seeing as they fit each other very well, as Tezkat pointed out.
Quote from: superluser on March 09, 2007, 08:08:17 AM
To be fair, I think that the point that is being raised is that the relationships don't seem like real-life gay relationships. They're more like idealized porcelain doll relationships, where the people involved sit around and look pretty and talk about how the other person looks pretty. At least, I think that's what they're saying.
Its a valid option, but I'm not sure if it makes much sense in this case since I've never done an actual gay-relationship in the comic. The closest, if one ignores the fact Devin never said his orientation, might have been Devin and Xander...but they might have been for all intents and purposes just a team duo who mock-bickered a lot.
To me, what I am personaly hearing being said, is that the main reason there are gay relationships in a comic if the author is a chick, is because they are a yaoi fangirl who is getting their squees at the idea of bishie-boys snuggling. And I realize this because yes...there are plenty of girls out there who do that. Which is probably why it burns since it almost feels I'm forced to be lumped into the group on principle. Do I personally like dude/dude snugglings? I wont lie, I do. But to imply that I'm willing to shaft over the comics storyline to put some in is an insult.
And it sucks that a gay relationship has taken the form of "token black guy" in the webcomic world. So much that it has jaded the audience into raising the bleh at the mere provocation. It annoys me to no end that being gay or lesbian in a webcomic takes center stage of who someone is. And I get the feeling that a lot of times, its because it so easy to focus on the instances where someone is apart from the standard. Dan, Alexsi, Merlitz, Aaryanna, Azlan(with Neni), Pyroduck, Kria, Biggs, (and a lot of their parents) have all shown primarily hetero sides. Jyrras is the first character in DMFA to actually out and admit he has an orientation that is something other than purely straight, and even then it isnt full on gay.
I have made jokes about shonen-ai in comic, heck, I even drew the wallpaper of it...but for the most part those were very tongue-in-cheek and more often than not the underlying statement was "this is funny because it reeks of fangirlism" What makes a comic great, and Janus Bond in particular come to mind. Both arcs were highly out-there.
And this is, keep in mind, assuming there ever is a gay relationship in DMFA. There might not be, I dont know. It might turn out also that Dan remains single for the rest of eternity. Who knows. It's how the story plays itself out, and in that regard I only have a certain degree of control.(as odd as that sounds)
I apologize if I am ranting a lot over this. This is one of those matters that strikes close to me. I dont like the feeling that I'm getting restricted, especially when its based on other peoples failures. If I do a gay/lesbian relationship and it sucks full of cliche and sparkles, then by all means run me up the flagpole. But don't typecast me here peeps. Trust me. :<
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 09, 2007, 10:44:59 AM
Trust me. :<
Aaarrghh! Run for the hills, folks, it's about to start raining body parts!
*hides*
If it helps any, Jyrras' orientation felt extremely natural and in-character for him and didn't strike me as at all fangirly; in fact, one of Jyrras' big problems is that his incredible cuteness tends to really wreak havoc with any attempt he might make to display machismo, and him being into dudes fits in very nicely with that continuing string of problems.
His machismo problems aren't caused by his not being straight, his not being straight is yet another blow to his machismo.
Poor Jyjy, someone should invite him bowling or fishing or something else equally manly. :mowhappy
Quote from: MaskedRetriever on March 09, 2007, 10:56:29 AM
Poor Jyjy, someone should invite him bowling or fishing or something else equally manly. :mowhappy
Nah. Watching the game or some action flick might be better, since bowling and fishing are dull ways to pass the time. :P
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 09, 2007, 10:44:59 AM
...Jyrras is the first character in DMFA to actually out and admit he has an orientation that is something other than purely straight, and even then it isnt full on gay.
...
And this is, keep in mind, assuming there ever is a gay relationship in DMFA. There might not be, I dont know. It might turn out also that Dan remains single for the rest of eternity. Who knows. It's how the story plays itself out, and in that regard I only have a certain degree of control.(as odd as that sounds)
I apologize if I am ranting a lot over this. This is one of those matters that strikes close to me. I dont like the feeling that I'm getting restricted, especially when its based on other peoples failures. If I do a gay/lesbian relationship and it sucks full of cliche and sparkles, then by all means run me up the flagpole. But don't typecast me here peeps. Trust me. :<
Who ever said that there had to be a homosexual relationship like that? I think it would be more truthful to realize that homosexuals are, after all, a minority. It would not be entirely out there to have more characters insecure about their sexuality, but then settling in with what they're comfortable. Hell, we could even see some experimenting. And I'm not saying that because I'm a lewd bastard. Trust me. >:3
...But seriously. You have as of yet not shown any tendency to take the comic and the characters anywhere but where you think the story should lead. At least not insofar as I can see. And I am, if you excuse me, quite used to reading between the lines. The only "obvious" homosexual relationship, that between Xander and Devin, was realistic enough that it reminded me of some very close people of mine.
So, what I am saying is, you seem to have absolutely no reason to worry, sweets.
*Charline hmphs* I personally don't care who ends up with who, just so long as there's lots of graphic sexx0rz involving at least half a dozen people at once and the roo-rat ends up in mah belleh! >:3
*Charles erms* Charline does not speak for the majority of my multiple personalities. :erk
*Alondro adds* Indeed. :erk I should also add that Jyrras' confusion does make it more likely that something very bad is going to happen to him. There are too many arrows pointed his way to avoid them all when they're set to fly.
Considering the timing, this will sound odd, but I thought I'd weigh in. To me, Amber's always been able to provide enough plot twists that predicting the future is risky at best. Not because I think she does it to mess with us or throw the speculators into a frenzy (though I suppose that can be amusing at times.) but as she said - the storyline works out that way. Basically, I just wait and see. Personally, I don't have a lot of personal references to go by, but I don't see Jyrras as anything but single for the time being. No, I don't really think I can even see him with Abel. It just... wouldn't work IMHO. Then again I may get proved wrong as usual. :P
Well With this whole thing with Lorenda dosen't want to hurt Jy-Jy. It was very thoughtful of her but I think she needs to really sit down and talk to Jy-Jy heart to heart.
I think the way she is doing this by moving out and telling Jy-Jy what her feelings are to him. Without really having that talk it's wrong on her part.
Anyway I wait and see what developes next on this arc.
Quote from: Zina on March 09, 2007, 02:20:56 AM
And the only reason for this is because Amber's a chick?
Come on, now.
But it's true! D: I swear!
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 09, 2007, 10:44:59 AM
It might turn out also that Dan remains single for the rest of eternity.
Please, say it ain't so! :U
Seriously though, I really like where things are going with Dan and Matilda. I tend to like couples that are odd at first glance, yet somehow fit together. Matilda is just right sort of person to help Dan come to terms with his Cubi heritage, and neither of them seems to mind that the other is a distinctly different species. Plus, since she's immune to his Cubi mental/emotional powers, he can trust that her feelings for him are genuine.
Right now they have the makings of a most excellent friendship, and from what I've heard/read, the longest and strongest romantic relationships tend to be built on strong friendships. (That is to say, the strength of the friendship, not the strength of the romance, is the glue that holds the relationship together. Romance is an awesome bonus, though!)
Anyhoo, I hope my comments haven't now doomed Dan and Matilda... :erk:doh ;)
Btw, if they got married would their kids be Mythocubi? :mowtongue
Of course not.
Dan and Matilda's children would be Cubic Myths. or Mythcubios...
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 09, 2007, 01:52:12 PM
Of course not.
Dan and Matilda's children would be Cubic Myths. or Mythcubios...
Nonsense.. cubi+mythos would obviously bring forth a newer version of a Cthulhu. The tentacles + the extra limbs of the mythos, combine the body shapes. Yup. New Cthulhu.
(http://www.jpmorris.force9.co.uk/stuff/conversions/gilded_with_wings.png)
**EDIT**
Attribution: Taken from Gildedtongue's avatar (as drawn by Amber) the last time this discussion came up :P
now I wonder if Kria actually means to hurt Jy, or if she's blaffing and actually intends to flirt him
Quote from: Jack McSlay on March 09, 2007, 02:27:21 PM
now I wonder if Kria actually means to hurt Jy, or if she's blaffing and actually intends to flirt him
No way hmmmmmmmmmm she does find Jy-Jy in her own words *So Frigging Hot* hmmmmmm I could imagine the comedic rainfall we will get in that arc and the fans eating it up.
*smacks Shadow with a hammer* As in put. No matter who is is with who I'll still keep reading the comic as I have been already for while. Like my mother said..Ride the wind like a cloud....I too wish I was a cloud...they are so lucky..*stares at everyone with eyes like Shikamaru* What? :sweatdrop
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 09, 2007, 09:15:08 AMAll your friends are bi, superluser? :-)
Haw haw haw. :<
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 09, 2007, 10:44:59 AMbut they might have been for all intents and purposes just a team duo who mock-bickered a lot.
I hear they won awards for their portrayal of George and Martha. :3
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 09, 2007, 10:44:59 AMIt annoys me to no end that being gay or lesbian in a webcomic takes center stage of who someone is.
We live in some very eventful times. It was just over 100 years ago that Oscar Wilde went on trial for something that could only be expressed as ``The love that dare not speak its name.'' Those who don't want us to go back to those times will latch onto examples of GLBT characters and exploit (in the positive sense) them to encourage further progress for their personal cause. Unfortunately, that's the way that it has to be in the current political climate in the English-speaking world.
Another thing that you alluded to is the fact that you have to make relationships that fit the characters, and not the other way around. This is true, but it ignores the fact that the characters often have to be made that way to make the story work. Had Helen been an ugly hag or unmarried, a thousand Greek ships could have stayed in port.
That doesn't mean that the Iliad (or, by analogy, DMFA) is poorly written--indeed, your characters are well thought out. But it does mean that you do exercise control over some cases where you might have claimed to have no control.
...I still say that Matilda has all the personality of an oak yacht, though.
Quote from: Stygian on March 09, 2007, 09:19:43 AMAnyway, I don't completely discredit the Kria / Jy relationship. I just think that she will have to show a very great portion of her kindergarden teacher side before he warms up to her.
I think that for any chance at all, she'd have to totally and utterly convert to nonlethal-kindergarten-teacher mode. As long as she's in a mindset where she can't help blurting out "I'm good at hurting!" and holds most other lives to be of minimal significance, Jyrras just isn't going to go for it.
As to Dan/Wildy and Dan actually enjoying getting chained to a wall and tortured... well...
(http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol46.jpg)
...am I the only one who sees him trying to rip her apart? Or is this one of those (I invoke the protection of speculation) "Oh, um, everyone hits Dan with a bat" moments?
EDIT: Why? Why doesn't the image work? :0
EDIT 2: And why has it taken me this long to comment on how much I love Kria's appearance in those last two panels? I mean, she looks so... I don't know what, but I like it.
Quote from: Caswin on March 09, 2007, 06:12:50 PM
EDIT: Why? Why doesn't the image work? :0
Because you're trying to display the HTML as a picture, not the picture itself. >:3
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 09, 2007, 06:42:13 PM
Quote from: Caswin on March 09, 2007, 06:12:50 PM
EDIT: Why? Why doesn't the image work? :0
Because you're trying to display the HTML as a picture, not the picture itself. >:3
...uh. Right. I knew that. Thankees. *Fix*
Quote from: Caswin on March 09, 2007, 06:12:50 PMAs to Dan/Wildy and Dan actually enjoying getting chained to a wall and tortured... well...
...am I the only one who sees him trying to rip her apart?
That strip is entitled #46: Don't Worry, Dan is Having Fun
Yeah Amber, you're right. Sorry for what I said earlier, I could see why it would seem like a personal attack on your intentions concerning your characters. Of course, it's your comic anyway, so if you wanted to make everyone gay there's not really much right for me to complain then either.
My own personal opinion on the matter is still that I wouldn't want to see a gay relationship heavily emphasized in the comic just because it is trendy to do nowdays in other comics, art, stories, whatever. Personally though, I wouldn't want extensive romantic subplots of any sort to become heavily focused on because soap-opera-type drama just does not appeal to me.
However if DMFA does eventually have one I'm not going to throw a bitch-fit over it. It was unfair for me to lump you into the 'fangirl' category of people that fantasize about bishonen all day. Sorry for that again; sometimes I post without thinking through what I am typing.
I don't care about the gay/straight issue; I have personal opinions on the gay "lifestyle" in general, but I won't drag them into the forum (no I'm not homophobic, in case you were wondering). I for one simply want to see Jyrras end up with someone that will provide him a healthy and satisfying relationship. And out of the three people for whom he's expressed interest, I don't see any options as being healthy for him.
Dan might have been good for him, but as we know now, he's straight and such a relationship isn't going to happen. And as we are now seeing, Lorenda is backing out altogether. Unfortunately, that only leaves the possibility of Abel (unless Jy develops emotions for someone else now). And again, I just don't think that would be a good relationship for him; Abel has WAAAAY too much emotional baggage. But assuming that Jy persues him anyway, he will be constantly trying to push Abel into opening up and getting past his issues, which as anyone knows, will only make him fight against it more, and close off tighter.
So no, I don't care if he ends up in a gay relationship or a straight one. I just want to see him happy. I was surprisingly broken up when he and Dan were talking on the bench. Could just be related to my RL relationship issues as well; I kinda sympathized with him.
Quote from: superluser on March 09, 2007, 07:32:43 PM
Quote from: Caswin on March 09, 2007, 06:12:50 PMAs to Dan/Wildy and Dan actually enjoying getting chained to a wall and tortured... well...
...am I the only one who sees him trying to rip her apart?
That strip is entitled #46: Don't Worry, Dan is Having Fun
...or so Merlitz believes. Yes, I know you're talking about the title. Even speaking with minimal knowledge about that kind of thing, though, it doesn't look like he's having fun to me.
I feel I should warn you guys that up until comic #74, the ones prior were ones I had John(the original dude I started the comic with) help with...and since he was the coder of the two, he was the one who made the initial titles under the comic. So I might be cautious in taking the sub-titles for complete canon.
Other than that, its cool. I can see the validity of the concern, it's one I'm aware of and hope to avoid falling into said pit-trap of "omg! Bishie snugglings! Squee!" One doesnt draw a furry comic with anime-esque style and an inability to draw highly muscular men(though I am trying to get better on that last one. I really am! D: ) and stay blind to the the hangups that come with each. And while I can't say for sure I personally know the romantic outcomes each character is going to have (I can guess on a few, but for the most part there is a lot of stuff that could happen that might set things off in a different direction), it is my hope that when I get to those bridges, I will be able to handle it with grace and good funny. Or at least a lot of gasoline and matches...and maybe a couple marshmellows. :B
Muscles really aren't that much of a problem, as long as you remember to study anatomy rather than just adding bulges where it seems right. Also, in your case, what with the proportions, I would be careful not to add too much bulk, instead of toning, since it might end up making some guy looking like a treetrunk (not that I have so much to offer in terms of valuable advice here, what with me being a beginner artist and all...).
Also, I've quite often found myself curious as to just how tall the different characters in the comic are. Am I right if I presume that for example Dan is about 5'10" or so?
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 09, 2007, 10:30:20 PM
I feel I should warn you guys that up until comic #74, the ones prior were ones I had John(the original dude I started the comic with) help with...and since he was the coder of the two, he was the one who made the initial titles under the comic. So I might be cautious in taking the sub-titles for complete canon.
Other than that, its cool. I can see the validity of the concern, it's one I'm aware of and hope to avoid falling into said pit-trap of "omg! Bishie snugglings! Squee!" One doesnt draw a furry comic with anime-esque style and an inability to draw highly muscular men(though I am trying to get better on that last one. I really am! D: ) and stay blind to the the hangups that come with each. And while I can't say for sure I personally know the romantic outcomes each character is going to have (I can guess on a few, but for the most part there is a lot of stuff that could happen that might set things off in a different direction), it is my hope that when I get to those bridges, I will be able to handle it with grace and good funny. Or at least a lot of gasoline and matches...and maybe a couple marshmellows. :B
Your right on how you want this comic to go. I never think that people have this perception that if a person is gay it's all cute *squeee*.
I like how this story evolved to something very different and I like it. You are doing something no artist *Okay maybe a handful* do fleshing out your characters making them alive.
In our own eyes we treat each character as a member of our family here at DMFA, and we understand them because we went through them ourselves.
Right now I love what are you doing for character development keep going in the direction you wanted and keep the pedal to the metal.
Until we crash off a cliff and burst into flames (joking here don't smite me). :B
Well... considering everyone in the comic is seemingly coming to a crossroad of their own I can only surmise that the chances of Jyrras finding someone to date right now would be slim.
Jyrras is also smart enough NOT to date his friends because that can change a relationship really quickly and he wants to keep his friends.
I truly think Jyrras must talk to Lorenda quickly and finish off the conversation he started before his sisters and the baby bomb.
Quote from: devilsislegrl on March 09, 2007, 05:04:39 AM
Some other creatures have fewer fingers as well, like Matilda and the other Mythos in Abel's story, but Tezkat's right, it is mostly based on it being a hoofed species. It's just a coincidence that most of the hoofed creatures we've seen happen to be demons.
Hmm... true. I suppose it's based on the base animal nonetheless. Both Matilda and Hennya are serpentine, and snakes don't have any fingers. So... the rule seems to be that species' naturally reduced finger counts will be reflected in their anthro incarnations. Then of course there are exceptions like Mikelo, who has three fingers per hand and two toes per foot, but that's probably due to his pedigree (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/) rather than his species--normal turtles do have five-fingered forlimbs.
QuoteAnd I don't really think Jy and Wildy would make a good couple, i think they're too much of an almost sibling relationship. I don't really see Wildy hooking up with anyone really...
Yeah. The thing about Wildy is that she's just such a heavily dominant personality. I mean... her brother rules over a small empire and has people eliminated with a snap of his fingers, but she walks all over him. You'd need to either pair her with an even stronger character (hmm... Kria x Wildy? :kittylove) or just give her her own slave to play with. Otherwise, she's just doomed to be the resident ebil ferret.
Quote from: Zedd on March 09, 2007, 05:10:45 AM
And do you know what Tez...You remind me of my brother but so more open minded. Widely open..Like plenty of room for me to live in.
Well, I do like to maintain an open mind policy... and plenty of nice cages for any guests foolish enough to visit.
:kittydevious
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 09, 2007, 10:30:20 PM
Other than that, its cool. I can see the validity of the concern, it's one I'm aware of and hope to avoid falling into said pit-trap of "omg! Bishie snugglings! Squee!" One doesnt draw a furry comic with anime-esque style and an inability to draw highly muscular men(though I am trying to get better on that last one. I really am! D: ) and stay blind to the the hangups that come with each. And while I can't say for sure I personally know the romantic outcomes each character is going to have (I can guess on a few, but for the most part there is a lot of stuff that could happen that might set things off in a different direction), it is my hope that when I get to those bridges, I will be able to handle it with grace and good funny. Or at least a lot of gasoline and matches...and maybe a couple marshmellows. :B
A think most of the people whining about gay stuff in DMFA are just being silly (or homophobic). As many have pointed out, a lot of their objections stem from some kind of vague Evil Shounen-Ai in Webcomics conspiracy rather than anything specific to your work. I do think you've managed to create some interesting, multidimensional characters.
The comic has taken on a significantly more serious turn tone compared to a few years back. That's not necessarily a bad thing--the plot and characters are now deeper and more interesting--but do I worry that Jyrras's story may be treading that fine line between comical Schadenfreude and dramatic tragedy. It was cute while he was still in the closet where we could giggle and play fantasy matchmaker, but his life has been a series of cruel disappointments since he came out--the poor guy just can't seem to catch a break.
Hmm... maybe we really do need some "omg! Bishie snugglings!" to lighten the mood. :kittydevious :kittydevious :kittydevious
Quote from: Azraelle on March 09, 2007, 09:11:43 PM
Dan might have been good for him, but as we know now, he's straight and such a relationship isn't going to happen. And as we are now seeing, Lorenda is backing out altogether. Unfortunately, that only leaves the possibility of Abel (unless Jy develops emotions for someone else now). And again, I just don't think that would be a good relationship for him; Abel has WAAAAY too much emotional baggage. But assuming that Jy persues him anyway, he will be constantly trying to push Abel into opening up and getting past his issues, which as anyone knows, will only make him fight against it more, and close off tighter.
So no, I don't care if he ends up in a gay relationship or a straight one. I just want to see him happy. I was surprisingly broken up when he and Dan were talking on the bench. Could just be related to my RL relationship issues as well; I kinda sympathized with him.
As someone else mentioned, I suspect that JyJy will be able to step past much of Abel's attitude. I can see Jyrras being good for Abel. I'm not so sure about the other way around, but the possibility exists that Abel will help Jyrras be more, ah, up-front about his emotions. Or at least more able to stand up for himself.
Lorenda, as you say, is an interesting one. I agree, Jyrras needs to sit down with her, RSN, and sort out what they're doing. And I think he's bright enough to agree to disagree, and not lose her as a friend - she's just preparing for the worst, I think, at this stage. I'd like for that to be wrong, but I can't say for sure which way that'd go. I guess we'll just have to break out the popcorn and wait and see...
Quote from: ShiningShadow on March 09, 2007, 11:36:07 PM
Until we crash off a cliff and burst into flames (joking here don't smite me). :B
... and that's when we get out the marshmallows. Mmmmm....
Can we get some hot chocolate to go with that? :-]
I just hope Lorenda doesn't end up leaving the strip like it appears Aaryanna has :cry
I would never forgive her if she did.
I dont think that would happen lorenda is too important a character at the moment if she did leave i think it would be for more reasons than just getting away from jyrras for a little while.
Quote from: Manawolf on March 10, 2007, 07:56:18 PM
I would never forgive her if she did.
I would. If a half-demon cow with a demon mare for a mother thought she should leave, then, by golly, that's what she should do. Yep Yep Yep. :paranoid
With regards,
Ted
I apologize if I've missed my window for my long-delayed point ( I know I have it around here somewhere!) But I didn't merely mean to make a general statement and leave; I do have a case for why I believe any current gay relationships for Jyrras would be...unhealthy and unstable (Actually, that applies to all the girls as well.)
I'd like to tackle this from a psychological standpoint, based on my observations of Jyrras's character. In no particular order, here are my thoughts:
1. A dominating mother figure, combined with a laid-back dad equals a lack of teaching in the masculinity department. I mean, other than the sheer physical differences (his mother is not only emotionally but physically dominating) and this all culminates into a certain unavailability with his father, in the ways a father as a Man is supposed to teach and be an example to a son. This leaves him abit immasculine...and it's also the beginning of his shy tendencies.
2. His sisters were also...overpowering. They would have turned him off to women as representitives of the gender, smothering him with misplaced affection. Combined with a laid-back dad (And I apologize, but usually dad's like Jyrras's are really cool but lazy in certain areas of the parenting department) and an overpowering mother, you've got even more problems...Jyrras's shyness, avoidance of social contact, retreating into his own world of science and technology....
3. Meeting Dan: the atypical Guy basically filled the masculinity void left by his father...Jyrras's feelings would be more based in desire of Dan's traits, as well as finding something of a father figure, someone to emulate. At this point, gender confusion (Repressing attraction to the female would leave sexual "energy" rather free) as well as social confusion (His place in society, his being cut off from the majority of people, his social ineptitude) would all contribute to these feelings for Dan.
It's psychological truama mixed with continual personal confusion, and while Dan's a good guy, from the perspective of psychology...he's messed up. What he needs is emotional stability (Not likely with Dan or Abel, who are both rather large trainwrecks emotionally), to confirm his own masculinity, and to re-adjust emotionally in a healthy manner.
Honestly, I really do suggest Kria. She's ancient, experienced. It will be going after a mother-like figure, but she's the kind of person who could see his problems and help work them out. Because she's a warrior, she could (through teaching him combat or some other, more esoteric form) bring out his inner MAN, his inner masculinity and confidence that is sadly lacking. She's also extremely blunt, so she could pierce the geeky facade when he was being wimpy (And as a geek, I can relate to using the wimp-geek facade to manipulate people emotionally), while also encouraging him to "Stick to it", whatever "it" is.
Honestly, I don't want to make suggestions as to the storyline (Because suggestions from newbs usually make as much news as crap in a toilet) but I do think that Jyrras (And indeed, most of the cast) need to do some growing before any sort of truly healthy relationship could be tendered. I know I don't have their inner perspective as Amber does, but from the outside, things are rather breakable as they are now, and relationships wouldn't be the wisest thing (indeed, I respect Amber for not going after the romance cliche without reason, just for fun. She's keeping her continuety believable and deep, and I like that in a writer.)
so, there's my big point of nothing. I could have written this alot better, but I rushed abit. Psych 101 really does help you learn things about people!
I'm impressed.
You've put more thought into that one post than most people, myself included, put into a weeks posts. Admittedly in my case that's probably more posts than most do in a month, but still... :-]
You make some cogent points. And, since, as you say, we're not Amber, we'll just have to wait and see. I agree with many of your ideas, though... Just thought I'd compliment you on the clarity of vision. :-]
Thanks...
I'd actually wanted to include a piece about Abel, but the psych evaluation of that guy would take a week and a Harvard trained psychologist.
I like it too that's is very thought out makes my post like crap. You have good points there, and you are right there that Amber will do her thing in this arc in due time.
Until now we will ahve to wait and see till the next arc will come.
I thought they always were.
Of course, I have no idea what the writer thinks. Hmm... I wonder if she agrees with my psych evaluation?
Anyway, it was a good comic...I really do hope this will be an entrance for Kria to have some influence in Jyrras's life. He hasn't grown much emotionally for awhile, and while being honest with Dan was a breakthrough, he still seems to have a long way to go to being emotionally healthy. And I will admit Jy/Kria might go bad before it goes good, "Always darkest before the dawn" and that mess.
Quote from: Sirios Skywolf on March 12, 2007, 02:08:23 PM
Of course, I have no idea what the writer thinks. Hmm... I wonder if she agrees with my psych evaluation?
Anyway, it was a good comic...I really do hope this will be an entrance for Kria to have some influence in Jyrras's life. He hasn't grown much emotionally for awhile, and while being honest with Dan was a breakthrough, he still seems to have a long way to go to being emotionally healthy. And I will admit Jy/Kria might go bad before it goes good, "Always darkest before the dawn" and that mess.
But if the relationship will have to go through those rough patches, it will get betting during time that Jy-Jy and Kria spends time together. That pairing I think Kria will help Jyrass emotionaly immensly.
Who knows in DMFA stranger things has happened before. When it does then we get smacked in the face with it and go into a speculation frenzy here at the boards.
Quote from: Sirios Skywolf on March 12, 2007, 02:08:23 PM
Of course, I have no idea what the writer thinks. Hmm... I wonder if she agrees with my psych evaluation?
In all honesty? I'm still trying to figure out if the Kria you are talking about is the Kria I'm drawing. :/
Well, I suppose you may be making an emphasis on her evil/self-pleasing, but although I think your trying for moral complexity (good and bad and good mixed up) Kria genuinely strikes me as a "good" person...I suppose reading Abel's story, I saw more of her kind/giving side, and so I may have put more emphasis on that.
But really, I honestly think the Kria we see the most is a shallow face-persona created by ages of continuous horror and evil as a means to cope. The reason the Immortals are so unknowable isn't wisdom, it's living with the human (or creature) experience far longer than our scope of knowledge was meant for. I realize a race of near immortals might have other means of coping, but being a human, looking from the perspective of reality, the Immortals just have longer and more deranged psychs. I don't think human beings can really imagine immortality as an experience, because it's something that we have no experience in.
I think you're looking too far into things.
The Kria we've seen in the current comic is violent and unpredictable. I mean, just a few strips ago, she was all for killing Jyrras. That doesn't sound like the beginnings of a healthy and loving relationship to me.
She only thinks he's hot stuff. Well, as far as I saw.
Buh. You ever watch a show for awhile and then suddenly an episode you watch makes you feel weird? Like it's ruining the show, or the characters are doing something out of character/ I felt that way with Southpark's episode of killing off Chef. I felt that way with the out of character actions of Lois in Family Guy during the episode when she cheats on Peter.
Yeah, retarded little cartoons shows, and now this retarded little furry comic. Jyrras coming out of the closet seemed, to me, like Amber was just finally getting the BS out of the way with people speculating for YEARS about people's stances. Obviously if Jy was gay, Lorenda wasn't going to be with him and now we have these, as I personally feel, stressed character actions. It seems fake that Lorenda is going to talk to her mom, a horrible type of person for support, in asking something that doesn't seem to fit into her character. She's got the "grr" eyes for the past few comics, and everything seems so fake. As with the Aaryanna break up, it comes suddenly and without much feeling to it; Merl then skips out of the comic conveniently.
I liked DMFA when it was ambiguous on character "alignments." So much focus on this stuff just amounts to major fail in my book.
And now, back to your regularly scheduled giggles and "omg cute shock! cavities!" posts. Me and my book are going to scoot away. :mowcookie
I am having trouble matching up Kria, a demoness who can kill without remorse, with someone like Jyrras.
I have further trouble reconciling this matchup as a "cure" for his shyness or whatever.
If anything, I feel like Jyrras can handle himself. He stepped up to the plate big time and acknowledged his feelings. Yes, he was rebuffed—but you're going to get that.
And if that weren't enough, while the psychoanalysis was very interesting, I have trouble seeing Jyrras having a "masculinity" issue that needs to be "fixed." What exactly is "masculinity?" I don't even see it having a meaningful context in this world to begin with, but in real life, masculinity means different things to different people.
Family situation is not something that needs to be deterministic, mind you. For example, I have numerous people in my acquaintance with "normal" nuclear families and they've had trouble maintaining relationships. And conversely, some people with demonstrably "broken" families have ended up holding some of the best and most long-lasting relationships.
I could definitely use more clarification on the "masculinity" bit. I can't agree at all with Kria being a match for Jyrras though.
-Seth
Eh. I can't argue the Aaryanna/Merlitz thing. That was a bad mojo from the word "go".
Back when DMFA first started, Merlitz and Mab on Furcadia were an item, and I in my character-making phase thought it would be cute to reflect the crushy feelings into the comic. Which then turned awkward when Merlitz and I drifted apart. So when Merlitz came about with a new girlfriend Aaryanna and asked if I could put her in the comic, I jumped at the chance since it would be a good way to put a nice wedge in the whole Merlitz/Mab awkwardness.
Of course, go figure, the real life Merlitz and Aaryanna broke up a while later. And it wasn't a pretty breakup. So I was asked as a favour to break the two in comic due to awkwardness. Which I obliged. And then there was/is the resulting awkwardness of "what do I do with these characters without pissing off both respective owners". So I've put them on backburner for time being. And it was then on out I've decided to really hold back from introducing other-people owned characters.
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 12, 2007, 05:15:33 PM
[...]And it was then on out I've decided to really hold back from introducing other-people owned characters.
And it was then that Amber decided to somehow get this information out to the public, thus halving the amount of e-mails she gets by preventing people from sending her e-mails with the summarization if "This character of mine could come in and help ____ and become good friends and maybe more!"
And then pies reigned from the sky. Yes, reigned. They are very powerful pies.
And then I ate the pies, gaining godlike status. For two fortnights. During this time I begged Amber to marry me, but realized she'd already been taken long before I asked. With my evil plan to steal abel's story and make it happy-happy foiled, I just painted amber blue and went home to my cult.
Quote from: sethtriggs on March 12, 2007, 04:58:46 PM
I am having trouble matching up Kria, a demoness who can kill without remorse, with someone like Jyrras.
Quote from: Zina on March 12, 2007, 04:38:10 PM
I think you're looking too far into things.
The Kria we've seen in the current comic is violent and unpredictable. I mean, just a few strips ago, she was all for killing Jyrras. That doesn't sound like the beginnings of a healthy and loving relationship to me.
Agreed and agreed. I'm really surprised by how many people seem to be utterly ignoring Kria's serial killer-esque tendencies in their speculation. :grave
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on March 12, 2007, 05:28:46 PM
And then I ate the pies, gaining godlike status... During this time I begged Amber... With my evil plan to steal [her] story... amber blue [oyster] cult.
Yar, we been in the same boat, you and I...
Quote from: Sirios Skywolf on March 12, 2007, 04:26:48 PMI realize a race of near immortals might have other means of coping, but being a human, looking from the perspective of reality, the Immortals just have longer and more deranged psychs.
``Those born to immortality instinctively know how to cope with it, but Wowbagger's not one of them. Indeed, he's come to hate them, and he refers to them succinctly, and often, as the Load of Serene Bastards'' --The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Tertiary Phase
As to your points...
Quote from: Sirios Skywolf on March 11, 2007, 10:46:43 PM1. A dominating mother figure, combined with a laid-back dad equals a lack of teaching in the masculinity department. I mean, other than the sheer physical differences (his mother is not only emotionally but physically dominating) and this all culminates into a certain unavailability with his father, in the ways a father as a Man is supposed to teach and be an example to a son. This leaves him abit immasculine...and it's also the beginning of his shy tendencies.
We've seen very little of Jyrras' dad, so stating that he was too laid back when he was raising Jyrras, or that Jyrras didn't get enough roughhousing as a boy is reading a bit too much into it. Plus, my dad did plenty of masculine things with me as a kid. Didn't make me any more masculine.
I'm also not 100% sure that Jyrras' mom is as dominating as you make her out to be. It's probably the reading that I would make, but it's more exegesis than stated character traits.
Quote from: Sirios Skywolf on March 11, 2007, 10:46:43 PMHonestly, I really do suggest Kria. She's ancient, experienced. It will be going after a mother-like figure, but she's the kind of person who could see his problems and help work them out. Because she's a warrior, she could (through teaching him combat or some other, more esoteric form) bring out his inner MAN, his inner masculinity and confidence that is sadly lacking.
I'm not sure that Kria would be cool with that. I rather think that she either wants a boytoy or some ingénu to manipulate. She clearly wants to be the dominant party in the relationship, and would not suffer to teach him how to be manly. The only things that she'd be teaching Jyrras would revolve around bringing him down and learned helplessness.
If you want to teach Jyrras how to be a man, get him this book:
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/superluser/realmendonteatquiche.gif)
Quote from: Kenji on March 12, 2007, 05:20:57 PM
And then pies reigned from the sky. Yes, reigned. They are very powerful pies.
You say pie, but I'm thinking 'cubi! Shape shifters, you have to keep an eye on them.
Quote from: ShadesFox on March 12, 2007, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: Kenji on March 12, 2007, 05:20:57 PM
And then pies reigned from the sky. Yes, reigned. They are very powerful pies.
You say pie, but I'm thinking 'cubi! Shape shifters, you have to keep an eye on them.
But I dont want to be berry filled :<
Fine, fine.. meat pie it is then..
Quote from: sethtriggs on March 12, 2007, 04:58:46 PMAnd if that weren't enough, while the psychoanalysis was very interesting, I have trouble seeing Jyrras having a "masculinity" issue that needs to be "fixed." What exactly is "masculinity?" I don't even see it having a meaningful context in this world to begin with, but in real life, masculinity means different things to different people.
Totally with you here. Since forever, I've never seen gender as anything more than what society expects you to like and want based on your bits, and found it a ludicrously backward concept. It has come as quite a surprise to me learn that some people actually take pride in their gender and regard it as important to them.
Anyway, I haven't see Jyrras showing any signs of gender issues.
To approach back towards webcomics in general, I am interested in hearing thoughts on the prevalence of "gay relationships" as having assumed the "token black man" status that we seem to see today. I think we have seen this done to a large extent and much of it done poorly, in a relatively shallow sense for both hetero and homo -sexual relationships. Is there a correlation with the recent, heavily public exposure to same sex relationships, the explosion of the internet and our information based society or some other relevant factors?
Who knows this is a process that is delicate for Jy-Jy psyche and character. I bet we will have to wait a couple of more strips till this matter is resolved.
I'm very happy for Jyrass to deal with Dan and I sense of confidence in that roorat. I think it's baby steps in his sexuality till more emotional stuff happens.
Quote from: superluser on March 12, 2007, 06:54:06 PM
I'm not sure that Kria would be cool with that. I rather think that she either wants a boytoy or some ingénu to manipulate. She clearly wants to be the dominant party in the relationship, and would not suffer to teach him how to be manly. The only things that she'd be teaching Jyrras would revolve around bringing him down and learned helplessness.
Arguably (and I'm going to start arguing, so fair warning :-] ) what Kria -appears- to want, and what she -actually- wants may well be two different things.
Case in point, the character Thandi Palane, from David Weber's Crown of Slaves, from the Honor Harrington series, at least peripherally - not to mention appearing in the wings of some of the other volumes - is an extremely strong, extremely powerful woman. Who likes to be dominated, as it happens, by a nice young man whom she can lift off the ground with one hand, overtops by about a head and a half, and is probably three times the weight of...
People are weird. *shrug*
So, that in mind, it's possible that, all outward tendencies aside, Kria actually wants to be dominated in the bedroom, as it were. Swept off her feet, even - although I'll admit Jyjy would have some trouble lifting her... :-]
Quote from: Azlan on March 12, 2007, 09:12:17 PM
To approach back towards webcomics in general, I am interested in hearing thoughts on the prevalence of "gay relationships" as having assumed the "token black man" status that we seem to see today. I think we have seen this done to a large extent and much of it done poorly, in a relatively shallow sense for both hetero and homo -sexual relationships. Is there a correlation with the recent, heavily public exposure to same sex relationships, the explosion of the internet and our information based society or some other relevant factors?
Honestly, in my webcomic travels I don't really see much of that. The primary characters in pretty much all the comics I read tend to be heterosexual. Other than in the comics I draw, which exist in a weird ontology, I know of one poly relationship depicted in a limelight fashion, and one, maybe two homosexual relationships - and in neither case are the characters defined by their orientation from where I sit.
I do think that the openness of information on the Internet makes it easier for people to reach out, and find those similar to them—indeed it's harder to be closeted when you know there's people to reach out to you, and you can actually
see people open about themselves and they're
just like you.
Now I fully confess to being not as well-read in webcomics as many of you undoubtedly are—nor am I well-versed in pop culture. So if any of you can cite webcomics that have gay relationships placed in as a 'token' sort of position, or are just done as a "Hey these are gay people!" sort of thing, let's hear them out! I think this would be an interesting discussion.
In my experience, I think that the actual numbers of gay people depicted in comics is quite low, even in furrydom (which is assumed to facilitate a far higher occurrence of GLBT people than would be expected in "real life"). I'd very much like opinions and evidence to the contrary though. And I'd definitely like to explore the "masculinity" thing as well, as I find that this and the question of homosexual characters may actually have a little bit of an intersection here. I think the two questions are related.
-Seth
Quote from: luiqui on March 12, 2007, 08:31:11 PMTotally with you here. Since forever, I've never seen gender as anything more than what society expects you to like and want based on your bits, and found it a ludicrously backward concept. It has come as quite a surprise to me learn that some people actually take pride in their gender and regard it as important to them.
Gender, most properly, refers to the grammatical attribute of words--masculine or feminine, as in ``his'' versus ``her.'' In English, this is quite limited, and the only place that I can think of where a gender is assigned to a sexless object is in ships (``We watched
Dreadnought as she hove to'').
More broadly, `sex' is used to refer to the physical and genetic traits associated with male and female members of a particular organism. `Gender' is used to refer to the cultural norms associated with a particular sex. Sex is male or female; gender is masculine or feminine (or neuter, indeterminate, or various other designations).
As such, ``gender roles'' is redundant, since all genders are roles. Gender is also not your role in a sexual relationship (e.g. you can take on the role of the homemaker and still be the `top'). Finally, gender is not the same thing as sexual identity. You can be a feminine female who thinks that she's really a man trapped in a woman's body. She might have sexual reassignment, but remain very feminine, because that's her gender.
That's one of the reasons that I'm not too keen on Sirios Skywolf's analysis, since it seems to conflate the three sex, orientation, and gender.
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 12, 2007, 09:24:01 PMArguably (and I'm going to start arguing, so fair warning :-] ) what Kria -appears- to want, and what she -actually- wants may well be two different things.
There's often a difference between what someone wants, what someone appears to want. But the distinction that I'm making here is that--whether she actually wants it--Kria would probably be unhappy if she were not the one in control. More to the point, I think that she would not take positive steps to become part of such a relationship.
(SPOILERS for Million Dollar Baby!)
Take the analogy of Clint Eastwood's character in Million Dollar Baby. He wants to end Maggie's pain by killing her. He appears to want this, he knows that he wants this, but he cannot bring himself to do it, and when he finally does, it makes him feel terrible.
(END SPOILERS!)
So just because it's something that someone wants doesn't mean that it's something that someone will try to attain.
Quote from: sethtriggs on March 12, 2007, 10:07:36 PMAnd I'd definitely like to explore the "masculinity" thing as well, as I find that this and the question of homosexual characters may actually have a little bit of an intersection here. I think the two questions are related.
I've expressed before how the issues are often conflated. Take, for example, Daniel Paul Schreber, a doctor who woke up one morning feeling that it would be pleasant to succumb to sexual intercourse as a woman. This, obviously, meant that he was insane, and he promptly wound up in an asylum. It doesn't make Schreber any less masculine. Likewise Tab Hunter was considered to be a masculine figure, but it didn't make him any more interested in the ladies.
Christopher Lowell has a very masculine figure, but is not very masculine in his affectations. In Breakfast of Champions, Harry LeSabre likes to dress up as a woman and travel to transvestite parties
with his wife. Harry still wears the pants in the family.
I guess I'm just rambling examples here, but I hope I've made myself clear.
Quote from: superluser on March 13, 2007, 01:22:35 AM
Quote from: luiqui on March 12, 2007, 08:31:11 PMTotally with you here. Since forever, I've never seen gender as anything more than what society expects you to like and want based on your bits, and found it a ludicrously backward concept. It has come as quite a surprise to me learn that some people actually take pride in their gender and regard it as important to them.
Gender, most properly, refers to the grammatical attribute of words--masculine or feminine, as in ``his'' versus ``her.'' In English, this is quite limited, and the only place that I can think of where a gender is assigned to a sexless object is in ships (``We watched Dreadnought as she hove to'').
More broadly, `sex' is used to refer to the physical and genetic traits associated with male and female members of a particular organism. `Gender' is used to refer to the cultural norms associated with a particular sex. Sex is male or female; gender is masculine or feminine (or neuter, indeterminate, or various other designations).
As such, ``gender roles'' is redundant, since all genders are roles. Gender is also not your role in a sexual relationship (e.g. you can take on the role of the homemaker and still be the `top'). Finally, gender is not the same thing as sexual identity. You can be a feminine female who thinks that she's really a man trapped in a woman's body. She might have sexual reassignment, but remain very feminine, because that's her gender.
That's one of the reasons that I'm not too keen on Sirios Skywolf's analysis, since it seems to conflate the three sex, orientation, and gender.
That last paragraph there was very interesting. So you're saying gender is a purely descriptive term, regarding someone's behaviour in relation to some culturally defined male and female archetypes. It was implied that gender has nothing to do with identity - but surely any aspect of oneself can be made part of an identity?
I'm just going to muse on this further. You're saying 'sexual identity' is which biological sex you identify with. With regard to myself, I don't think I have a sexual identity. I see myself in both sexes, so to speak. This might explain the attitude I expressed in my post.
(This is probably just a repeat of Superluser) What I was generally taught in one of my classes was there are generally speaking, three spheres of influence.
Sex: Plain and simple, its what you are physically born with. Unless you get one of those really wierd scenarios, you are most likely going to be born with male or female genitals and chromosomes. And while the former can be altered, you can't really change your genetics.
Gender: Is how you personaly identify yourself. This tends to not play much focus cause in most cases guys feel like a guy, girls feel like a girl. Then there are cases where someone feels "like a man trapped in a womans body" or vice versa. There is a lot of tizzy debate about if this is a nature/nurture reflected system, but thats another debate alltogether. However, a lot of people get this one confused with people who simply dont acknowledge gender stereotypes. A person who actually have a gender that doesnt match their sex are usually the kind who feel like they are lying if they have to checkmark their sex when filling out paperwork, and in cases are generally the type to undergo sex-changing.
Sexuality: Basically, its what you are attracted to. Gay, straight, bi, whatever.
On an average "normal" (and I only use normal in the relative sense) person, all three match up. Male is born, identifies himself as male, attracted to females. However depending on the three, you can get the opposite which might be male is born, identifies as a female, attracted to females. Or the whole "lesbian trapped in a mans body". Which is always rough cause you end up with people going "well if you like females, why not just stay a guy and be normal?"
-----
I apologize in advance if I got this incredibly off-base. Its been a while since I had the class.
However, I would advise a bit of caution to some people before they start putting down psycho-analysis on themselves. It's kind of like how some people will read a few paragraphs of a disorder and go "oh! I think I have that."
Yeah, what Amber said seems to correlate more to what I thought I knew.
It's interesting you noted the form check boxes thing. I always hate having to fill those in.
...
off topiiiic
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 13, 2007, 12:10:24 PM(This is probably just a repeat of Superluser)
So the creator and I agree on characterization theory? :boogie
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 13, 2007, 12:10:24 PMGender: Is how you personaly identify yourself. This tends to not play much focus cause in most cases guys feel like a guy, girls feel like a girl.
I think it can be a little more complicated than that. I would have agreed with that yesterday, but based on the examples that I was coming up with, I've changed my opinion. For example, it doesn't take into account masculine transvestites or butch/femme distinctions. I think that gender may have many components, not just the binary masculine/feminine, but I don't think that you or anyone else was explicitly suggesting otherwise.
Tigger reference..
I don't think I get it..
Quote from: sethtriggs on March 12, 2007, 10:07:36 PM
Quote from: Azlan on March 12, 2007, 09:12:17 PM
To approach back towards webcomics in general, I am interested in hearing thoughts on the prevalence of "gay relationships" as having assumed the "token black man" status that we seem to see today. I think we have seen this done to a large extent and much of it done poorly, in a relatively shallow sense for both hetero and homo -sexual relationships. Is there a correlation with the recent, heavily public exposure to same sex relationships, the explosion of the internet and our information based society or some other relevant factors?
Honestly, in my webcomic travels I don't really see much of that. The primary characters in pretty much all the comics I read tend to be heterosexual. Other than in the comics I draw, which exist in a weird ontology, I know of one poly relationship depicted in a limelight fashion, and one, maybe two homosexual relationships - and in neither case are the characters defined by their orientation from where I sit.
http://www.questionablecontent.net/index.php -- About 30-60% of the main and supporting characters are gay (Dora is most likely bi, Pintsize did things with a male anthroPC, and I can't remember the redhead's name but she is a lesbian, and also the guy the main character used to work with was gay. Lots of others in there too but I can't remember them now). Made by a dude.
http://go-girly.com/ -- Main two protagonists are lesbians. I don't think there are any gay guys in there. Made by a dude.
http://www.pvponline.com/ -- Has a gay character (Max) that definitely seems to just be gay just for the benefit of the comic having a gay character. Also, in the current arc Fransis questions his sexuality. Made by a dude.
http://venusenvy.comicgenesis.com/ -- Lesbians, transsexuals, probably more queer folk in there than straight ones. Made by an M to F.
http://www.pholph.com/ (WARNING NSFW) -- Has gays featured from time to time. Made by a dude.
Also Arti and... Benji? The comic about the racoon and cheetah-like creature. That comic features a gay couple. Made by a woman. Link can be found under DMFA links.
Another one... boy meets boy. About gays, made by a woman. Link can be found under DMFA links.
Edit: I will say this: I don't much like reading comics that feature two homosexual characters of a different gender than the author. I feel like a woman is not going to understand that much about how gay guys feel and is doing the comic that way just because it appeals to her to have two guys together (ditto for men doing lesbian comics). Benji and Arti, for instance, have a very unrealistic relationship as far as I can tell. Same for the characters in Girly (though in Girly everything is meant to be highly unrealistic anyway). I've known gay guys, one of my roommates is actually a gay guy. They don't really act how women seem to "want" them to act. Just my two cents though.
Anyway, you asked for comics with homosexuals either as main characters so there you go.
Also, I HIGHLY OBJECT to the idea that Jyrras needs to be masculinized. YES, he needs to mature, but his personality is fine as it is. I don't much like macho guys anyway and I think the whole idea of wanting to be that way just gives you too much pride and tends to make you demean women. I stay away from those "meathead-esque" guys in real life and I don't think that's the ideal way for men to act.
Jyrras isn't even feminine, he's just a little bit on the wimpy side and a nerd. There's nothing that needs to be changed about that.
Quote from: Kattuccino on March 14, 2007, 01:23:48 AM
Also Arti and... Benji? The comic about the racoon and cheetah-like creature. That comic features a gay couple. Made by a woman. Link can be found under DMFA links.
Another one... boy meets boy. About gays, made by a woman. Link can be found under DMFA links.
I read most of those just two things though
It's Vinci and Arty and Boy Meets Boy ended itsrun a while back. The artist now has a new comic Freindly Hostility featuring the family of two chars who showed up in BMB. Fox and Collin. Fox is Bi and his boyfreind Collin is gay. The artist also has anouther comic 5ideways staring 2 straight guys, 1 straight guy trapped in the rotting body of a child and a Male to female transgendered char.
lets look at the rest of my list
Evil inc- has atleast one gay background char, though that seems to have been there just for a joke
something positive- has an infrequent male gay freind and alesbian couple who shw up once in a while
Carpie Diem... It's a soap opera ish comic centered on mainly gay chars (one of my altime favorites)
Closet Coon- Well the name says it all
Suburban jungle- Brodie coyote, Drezzer Wolf, the kangaroo's but they all seem fairly well fleshed out as chars (and I think Byron the bat and Ramses had sometihng once) but these are rather suporting chars
Cantena- none that I know of
Ozy and Millie- Two young to matter, the only confirmed couple is the main chars parents who are dating
Kevin and Kell- The Rhino girl a fairly background char
Six pack of otters- all straight
Freefall- all straight as far as I know
Sabrina online- Well there is Zig Zag
Peter is the wolf- Oddly they just introduced a realy flamboyant gay background char
End of things- Not sure realy but they all seem straigh so far
looking for group- all straight as far as I know
Roomies- A lesbian couple makes occasional apearances
Vreakers- all straight I think (though Scare is cute)
Fur will Fly- A lesbian couple
Las lindas- All straight
Fuax pas- Straight
El goonish shive- one male gay char and a lesbian couple
Slop- a bi sexual serial killer (I think Tony counts as bi)
Dume- all seem straight
Quote from: thegayhare on March 14, 2007, 01:57:49 AM
Quote from: Kattuccino on March 14, 2007, 01:23:48 AM
Also Arti and... Benji? The comic about the racoon and cheetah-like creature. That comic features a gay couple. Made by a woman. Link can be found under DMFA links.
Another one... boy meets boy. About gays, made by a woman. Link can be found under DMFA links.
I read most of those just two things though
It's Vinci and Arty and Boy Meets Boy ended itsrun a while back. The artist now has a new comic Freindly Hostility featuring the family of two chars who showed up in BMB. Fox and Collin. Fox is Bi and his boyfreind Collin is gay. The artist also has anouther comic 5ideways staring 2 straight guys, 1 straight guy trapped in the rotting body of a child and a Male to female transgendered char.
Thank you, I knew I got the name wrong
And yeah, I don't keep up with all of the comics I listed (though I've read through most of the archives on all of them).
Geez, you read a lot of webcomics =P
LOL
yeah I left a few off that too
I like my comics
Whereas I can agree with you that there are a lot of women out there that write gay couples in thier "idolized" version of what they want a gay couple to be(case in point, gay characters and couples in Japanese manga made by women. I dare you to find someone that actually acts like they do), I don't think it's fair that women shouldn't write homosexual pairings of the opposite gender because they don't understand how they feel. If that were the case, then women shouldn't write for straight males, either, since they don't understand how they feel. Or lesbians. They really shouldn't write for anyone other than their own gender and sexuality, because they wouldn't be able to understand how they feel. Same goes for men.
I've grown up around people of different sexuality all my life(Boulder is probably the most liberal place in Colorado and where the hippies went to die), and I do know that it takes all kinds to make the world work. My roommate is a self-described homophobe, even though he's SO VERY gay. He just really hates the gay stereotype, and unfortunatly for him, he's realized that the 'gay stereotype' is very much a reality. And it's made him become very bitter and surly. Or maybe that's just from living with me. I can't tell.
Case in point, I know that the relationship my roommate and his boyfriend have is very different from the one my mom's friend and his boyfriend have, from the one my cousin and his boyfriend have. It's like straight couples. Not all are the same, and you tend to go with what you know. And sometimes that IS a stereotypical relationship.
Quote from: Kattuccino on March 14, 2007, 01:23:48 AMhttp://www.pvponline.com/ -- Has a gay character (Max) that definitely seems to just be gay just for the benefit of the comic having a gay character. Also, in the current arc Fransis questions his sexuality. Made by a dude.
Max (http://www.pvponline.com/article/2469/Tue-Sep-06) Powers isn't gay (http://www.pvponline.com/article/2467/Sun-Sep-04). Gwen is, though.
Quote from: thegayhare on March 14, 2007, 01:57:49 AM
lets look at the rest of my list
If you're compiling a list of comics and their treatment of homosexuality, I might point out 'Class Menagerie' which ran from 1999-2002 IIRC.
I believe it's in the same universe as 'Suburban Jungle', and indeed there are several characters who appear in both. One of them - Mikey the Kangaroo - eventually confides to his female stalker that he is gay.
Just like Amber was saying earlier, he has been leery of revealing it because he didn't want it to become his sole defining characteristic.
Quote from: Kattuccino on March 14, 2007, 02:16:40 AM
Geez, you read a lot of webcomics =P
*cough* (http://llearch.net/me/webcomics.html)
I'm not sure, off the top of my head, which of those contain homosexual characters, either male or female, because it's not something I pay any attention to. I could make a list, though, if you really want....
Dora bi? I can see where you'd get that; sadly that only works with things she's said, not in actual practice. Sorry to start getting nuts and bolts on you, but talking humourously about female sexuality (or making pseudo-sexual comments) doesn't really qualify as bi behavior (Note: I'm not debating the others mentioned, as that's all very true. I just think that if we're going to go looking for alternative lifestyle characters, it should be practicing members of the lifestyle, not speculative ones)
One might say that it is a lot easier to pick out instances where there are prominent gay characters than without. Sort of like how people always make the joke about the phone always ringing when they are in the shower. Because how many times do people remember the showers they take where the phone doesnt ring? Likewise, its a lot easier to recall and point out comics that feature a predominant gay character versus comics that have an all straight cast and never make mention of it.
I got to agree with Zina that it is a bit of a tall order. If I was to only write was I was familiar with, I'd have simply an "Amber and Fluffy" marathon instead of a comic about several varying characters. One of the challenges one takes when being an author is that we get to try to make characters that are uniquely separate from ourselves and our own opinions. It may not all be amazing successes, but what is the point of engaging in a creative medium if you only stick to your comfort zone.
In all honestly Kattuccino, and I apologize if I am stepping out of bounds and talking smack, it sounds more like you have a beef with fangirls/fanboys than you do with the medium of gays or lesbians in the comic. A couple times in your prior posts, it sounded like you were trying to basically say that people who write gay characters of an opposite gender(triply so if they are couples) are either A)incapable of doing it to a standard you have set and/or B)doing so for fanboy/fangirl reasonings. And to some extent, it sounds more like you have been jaded by prior experiences and it has caused you to be on the defense. And also to make some pretty grand-sweeping accusations.
On Vinci and Arty made by Candi Dewalt The comic is ment to be a PG rating... So, Yes the main characters are a couple, but most of her jokes do not concentrate on their "gay" relationship. Some jokes can be any loving relationship.
And authors of either sex can have insight into any relationships, sometimes more so if they are on outside looking in. I also know that the stereotypical "gay" on tv, are only 10-25% of the gay population, but hey, every groups has their own subgroup of fruits and nuts.
***
Now, Loving relationships have gender roles(male/female), which one or both partners will take on or share and switch depending on the situations or experiences that a couple shares, and on the personalities in the relationship. And I find that some homosexuals sometimes fool themselves when they don't see this is the case in most relationships.
to the comic.
Jy Jy love Lorenda but it fits his personality that he doesn't want to hurt her and tell her that he is in love with another male. I have a feeling Lorenda and Kria may catch him in the act of "dating" with Abel.....lol.
PBH
Yet only what Kira wants people to die a slow painful death! *Kefka laugh* :kefka
Actually, to some of you, you're really taking what I've said out of context.
First of all, Max Powers IS gay. Brent and the other guy (I'm horrible with names if you couldn't tell) were purposely misleading the girl. When she tried to kiss Max she got fired.
Dora seemed more bi to me when the comic started and I think it's something the author gradually shifted to more of a joke thing. Otherwise, Faye's sister is a lesbian also (forgot to mention her).
You know what, nevermind. Read my response if you care but I don't really want to say anything more. I have my opinion, you guys have your's, why don't we just agree to disagree?
Anyway, it's not that I think that women shouldn't make gays in their comic, but that when they make them main characters it always ends up a little unrealistic. I wasn't attacking Vinci and Arti, that's a cute comic and I used to actually keep up with it until it went on some big hiatus and I lost patience, but it does seem to be unrealistic. Yes, gays all have different relationships, but MOST of those that I have seen do have common tendencies.
Before anyway starts calling me homophobic I want to say that my roommate is a gay guy and one of my best friends is a m to f transexual. Just wanted to get that out there.
Anyway, guys in general ARE less sensitive than women, less romantic, somewhat more practical, and tend to be a lot less loyal/more oppertunistic (hence why there is a big HIV problem in gay communities -- generally in relationships it is the woman who stops the man from cheating). Yes, there are gays who are completely dedicated to their partner, but from what I've seen women imagine them acting like...well, women. And they're not women.
The difference from a female author creating a male main character and creating a gay couple main character is that women know how hetero men act, they don't try to idealize. Amber was correct in assuming that one of my main beefs was with Japanese shonen-ai. You might as well make the charcters women with male parts... they even LOOK like women.
http://avatar.smackjeeves.com/
This is the kind of comic I am talking about. Completely boring characters: they are all attractive, all the same body type, age, etc. There's the blonde-haired blue-eyed softspoken guy, the angsty dark, brooding guy, etc. This is the kind of comic that I really can't stand. It's fine if you like that kind of thing, and the art is wonderful, but I don't.
Anyway I'd like you to read my post again and realize what I am saying. NOWHERE did I say that comics like Vinci and Arti or Girly wouldn't appeal to anyone or that they shouldn't exist. All I did was give my personal opinion that I find them unrealistic and that a straight woman is a lot more likely to make a gay couple than a lesbian couple as the main characters because one of them appeals to them and one of them definitely doesn't (most straight guys, even ones who are tolerent, still don't want to see gay guys making out, for instance, and vice versa).
Now you can think my opinion is wrong, that's fine, but I don't see why you guys feel the need to act like I'm attacking something. Yes, I did originally say that it would unoriginal for Jyrras to end up with a guy, but I apologized for that. That's not what I'm talking about right now. Yes, the accusation that I'm making may be "grand-sweeping," but it is just my opinion on the matter on what I personally prefer to read.
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 14, 2007, 04:52:54 PMI have a feeling Lorenda and Kria may catch him in the act of "dating" with Abel.....lol.
...
If you mean what it sounds like you mean... I don't see anything like that happening. Definitely not with Jyrras. Or, for that matter, even catching them in the same room, seeing as Jyrras seems to be avoiding interaction with Abel at the moment (unless you foresee Lorenda and Kria meeting up yet again later on).
Quote from: Caswin on March 14, 2007, 08:47:43 PM
Quote from: Prof B Hunnydew on March 14, 2007, 04:52:54 PMI have a feeling Lorenda and Kria may catch him in the act of "dating" with Abel.....lol.
...
If you mean what it sounds like you mean... I don't see anything like that happening. Definitely not with Jyrras. Or, for that matter, even catching them in the same room (unless you foresee Lorenda and Kria meeting up yet again later on).
Well, I meant that Kria and Lorenda are going "SHOPPING". Jyrras maybe finally able to drag Abel out of the basement, and hang out at the Mall, again...
Now to Kattuccino
I am sorry to sound if I was attacking you, but Vinci and Arty are a comedy comic and they are surreal... If you want gay comic characters to act closer to reality, then you should try finding a Drama like Carpe Diem (http://www.carpediemcomic.com/), which I know is not authored by a female. And Jap-animation is never really close to reality to begin with. And they know target their audiance is 75% or more Hetero female anyway.
PBH
Quote from: Kattuccino on March 14, 2007, 08:12:03 PM
You know what, nevermind. Read my response if you care but I don't really want to say anything more. I have my opinion, you guys have your's, why don't we just agree to disagree?
*snip* You make some great points, but, well... you don't want to talk about it anymore. Oh, well. It was a nice conversation while it lasted... :-)
FWIW, I think Amber, amongst others, was generalising, rather than specifically attacking, and stating something along the lines of "I feel attacked" not "you're attacking me"... although I hesitate to put words in her mouth.
The problem is the fanboys who promptly read the former instead of the latter, and leap up looking for a target. *sigh* Suffice it to say, your viewpoint is still welcome.
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 14, 2007, 04:00:23 PMIf I was to only write was I was familiar with, I'd have simply an "Amber and Fluffy" marathon
This needs to be next month's donation incentive.
Quote from: Kattuccino on March 14, 2007, 08:12:03 PMFirst of all, Max Powers IS gay. Brent and the other guy (I'm horrible with names if you couldn't tell) were purposely misleading the girl. When she tried to kiss Max she got fired.
OK. Let me rephrase.
Max (http://www.pvponline.com/article/1156/Wed-Jan-30) might
be (http://www.pvponline.com/article/1157/Thu-Jan-31) gay,
but (http://www.pvponline.com/article/1303/Wed-Jun-26) I've seen no evidence that that's true.
Jade kissed him (http://www.pvponline.com/article/1158/Fri-Feb-01), and he didn't seem upset. In fact,
his sister thinks he's straight (http://www.pvponline.com/article/1462/Mon-Dec-02) (she is kind of a ditz, though).
:smack Sorry about that. Back on topic.
Lorendia is a cow who deserves what she needs...She needs more open range or something like that..Pardon me I am not a half demon mare bovine doctor
well I personaly would take issue with the assumption that men are any less loyal, or any more opertunistic then women. but hey we are all entitled to our own opiniona
Quite the interesting discussion, this could break up into so many areas.
I do find that Zina rings very true in what she wrote regarding the idealization aspect. Many attempt to write these type of relationships in a way they view it to be or how they wish it was. Speaking in generalizations, very few of what I have seen is from an aspect of one who has experience in said relationships. Whether it is from a purely fantasy aspect, or the ideal version, many paint a prettier picture then what could ever come true. That goes for straight, gay, bi or other relationships. It might be quite an interesting undertaking to research these areas for one's story, comic or novel.
Quote from: Azlan on March 14, 2007, 10:28:21 PM
Quite the interesting discussion, this could break up into so many areas.
I do find that Zina rings very true in what she wrote regarding the idealization aspect. Many attempt to write these type of relationships in a way they view it to be or how they wish it was. Speaking in generalizations, very few of what I have seen is from an aspect of one who has experience in said relationships. Whether it is from a purely fantasy aspect, or the ideal version, many paint a prettier picture then what could ever come true. That goes for straight, gay, bi or other relationships. It might be quite an interesting undertaking to research these areas for one's story, comic or novel.
Then there are those couples that we all like to get a good laugh at.
Right, Azlan? ;)
Quote from: Kenji on March 14, 2007, 10:34:39 PM
Then there are those couples that we all like to get a good laugh at.
Right, Azlan? ;)
Neni can beat me up... she's tough.
Quote from: thegayhare on March 14, 2007, 10:01:40 PM
well I personaly would take issue with the assumption that men are any less loyal, or any more opertunistic then women. but hey we are all entitled to our own opiniona
Generalisation, TGH.
-Some- men are just as loyal, and -some- men are not. Same goes for opportunity.
On -average-, men tend to be more opportunistic and disloyal, because, genetically speaking, it's better for them - they get more genes spread around if they sleep with a lot of women. Women get more of their genes spread around if they get the men to stick around and help the kids grow up.
Nothing personal, mind. Just plain old genetics and evolutionary biology :-)
... we're talking in -large- numbers, here. :-]
Quote from: Azlan on March 14, 2007, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Kenji on March 14, 2007, 10:34:39 PM
Then there are those couples that we all like to get a good laugh at.
Right, Azlan? ;)
Neni can beat me up... she's tough.
Ooh! Ooh! Show us! Show us! :eager
Quote from: Kenji on March 14, 2007, 10:40:33 PM
Quote from: Azlan on March 14, 2007, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Kenji on March 14, 2007, 10:34:39 PM
Then there are those couples that we all like to get a good laugh at.
Right, Azlan? ;)
Neni can beat me up... she's tough.
Ooh! Ooh! Show us! Show us! :eager
Are you sure you want see him thrashed around like a rag doll?
Quote from: Zedd on March 14, 2007, 10:47:39 PM
Quote from: Kenji on March 14, 2007, 10:40:33 PM
Ooh! Ooh! Show us! Show us! :eager
Are you sure you want see him thrashed around like a rag doll?
Why would we not? :-]
Man...I'm going to have to go through the PVP archive for this sooner or later.
Yes, Max nearly fired Jade's younger sister when she put the moves on him, but I dont recall at anytime him saying upfront because he was gay. Granted there is the overall joke of "you didnt like being kissed by her? Are you gay or something?" but just because he nearly fired her for trying to jump him, it doesn't mean a guy is gay. Considering she kept her job by having to do a "sexual harassment" seminar at his request.
I really do think the Max being gay thing is a stretch, though I confess I haven't read the archives in a while...so if there was a particular comic where he "came out", please link it. I admit I have a particular thing that unless a character actually states it, I don't take the subtle-innuendo for more than face-value.
----
That said, I apologize if my post made it sound like you were homophobic. I meant more that it sounded like you had a few bad run-ins with the "omg! Bishie bishi wai! Make with the snuggly-boy sexxins plz!" crowd. And having been through a few of them myself, I could see how it could make someone a bit jaded or cynical about the whole concept.
My comment about grand-sweeping was mainly that...well there are a lot of comics out there. (Over 8000 in TheWebcomicList) Ranging from various talents and personalities and storylines. Suffice to say, there might be dozens to hundreds out there who do have accurate and well-done representations. (I'd personally bring to the stands a comic called Narbonic) And while I won't argue that there is likely a higher trend of female-authors with gay pairs and male-authors with female pairs...its very risky to make assumptions since it is one of those things best left to the individual basis.
I know as an author, I'd rather have what I do judged on its own merit rather than having a preset assumption. Cause like I said, I already deal with people who go "omg! Furry animu crap!" just by looking at the first page. And I admit I feel a bit like I'm being challenged when people make comments about how girls can write decent gay-male couples.
That said, as much as I read Carpe Diem, I kind of would hold off on calling it a closer to reality...unless reality has a population of 80% gay. :P
Anyways, Illearch pretty much nailed it in that I was generalizing. The only time I made a comment personally, I put a forewarning apology since I realized I could have been way off tangeant.
Ah well. Still, my apologies if you felt like you were getting pigeon-holed or your opinion was getting dogged on.
----
... does anyone else look at the topic title here, and think:
o/~ feelings, nothing more than feelings....
?
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 15, 2007, 12:04:32 AMI admit I have a particular thing that unless a character actually states it, I don't take the subtle-innuendo for more than face-value.
I'm willing to allow a little more than that. For example, Devin and Xander? I'm not sure and don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think they might have been gay. :B
But yeah, unless there's something concrete, I tend to put any character into the asexual category. Glory and Dorian, for example.
I was taught that there's a hierarchy of personal characteristics:
(1) What other characters say about the character
(2) What the character says about himself/herself
(3) What the character actually does
I hate to go on about PvP on the DMFA forums, but Francis is a good example. Marcy tells Wikipedia that Francis is a total gaylord (but later tells Francis that he's not gay). Doesn't carry that much weight. Francis himself says that he's gay (but later says that he's not). Carries more weight. Francis romances (or at least `romances') a girl for a number of years and enjoys a facechest. Carries a lot more weight than the other two.
It's also a common trope to have someone established as gay either by his own words or by gossip, and then reveal that he's not. For that reason, I don't like inferring sexual orientation by anything other than the character's actions.
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 15, 2007, 12:04:32 AM
That said, as much as I read Carpe Diem, I kind of would hold off on calling it a closer to reality...unless reality has a population of 80% gay. :P
----
Well, Carpe Diem is closer than Vinci and Arty and follows a group of gay friends, so the cast is going to be 80% gay. I think, the Giraffe, Josh is not gay. But Josh is always the nice guy, who is always getting to short end of the stick. And he is always having bad dates. but he is really a cutey.
PBH
Regardless of opinions, positions, or points, it seems that everyone has a case (And all of them have been stated quite well.) It's this kind of dialogue that is healthy and helpful to human growth, and should be encouraged..even if it's "just" a webcomic.
Quote from: superluser on March 15, 2007, 07:47:27 AM
I'm willing to allow a little more than that. *snip snip snip*
*spritz you with water bottle* You knew darn well thats what I meant when I said the line about a character stating it mister. :P
But Xander from Abel's story? Yeah, he was gay. Devin however was/is an unknown factor. And considering their current state of dead, odds are no one will ever get to know the true nature of their relationship. (Granted I know. I'm an anal-retentive enough cookie to have their backstories worked out from the time they met eachother at adventuring school to when they went on their first adventure as a duo, to the last adventure against "Night Angels"...which I'll let you guy know were in fact vampires.)
Mayhaps I overthink things too deep. :mwaha
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 15, 2007, 01:14:37 PM
But Xander from Abel's story? Yeah, he was gay. Devin however was/is an unknown factor. And considering their current state of dead, odds are no one will ever get to know the true nature of their relationship. (Granted I know. I'm an anal-retentive enough cookie to have their backstories worked out from the time they met eachother at adventuring school to when they went on their first adventure as a duo, to the last adventure against "Night Angels"...which I'll let you guy know were in fact vampires.)
Mayhaps I overthink things too deep. :mwaha
Hmm... fodder for bonus arcs? :kittydevious
The notion of "adventuring school" is interesting--I think that's the first official reference to it, although we all know these guys had to learn their Creature-slaying skills from somewhere. Given the heavy Creature domination of Furrae's political and economic landscape, though, one wonders how such organizations would survive in public...
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 15, 2007, 01:14:37 PM
Mayhaps I overthink things too deep. :mwaha
Well they do say that the stories write themselves once you reach critical mass, but I for one would kill to have thought out such a detailed universe >:3
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on March 15, 2007, 02:14:36 PM
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 15, 2007, 01:14:37 PM
Mayhaps I overthink things too deep. :mwaha
Naaaaahhh...
Kind of takes over you head doesn't it? Fun but annoying as well...
Quote from: Tapewolf on March 15, 2007, 04:30:49 PM
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 15, 2007, 01:14:37 PM
Mayhaps I overthink things too deep. :mwaha
Well they do say that the stories write themselves once you reach critical mass, but I for one would kill to have thought out such a detailed universe >:3
That or you write a library worth of notes and no actually story.I know what you mean though.
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 15, 2007, 01:14:37 PM*spritz you with water bottle* You knew darn well thats what I meant when I said the line about a character stating it mister. :P
No, I didn't. I thought that you meant what you said, but that you didn't actually believe it. I used the example of Devin and Xander as a sort of reductio ad absurdum.
I know people who apply the same test that you suggested. The character has to come out and say that he's gay, or else we should assume that he's straight. Like I said, I don't really start looking at the character's sexual orientation unless I see that character expressing a sexual preference.
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 15, 2007, 01:14:37 PMBut Xander from Abel's story? Yeah, he was gay. Devin however was/is an unknown factor.
I thought we knew Devin was gay, but not necessarily Xander. The ``Oh, Xander, I'm sorry I never told you that...'' seemed to only have one interpretation. I mean, they're your characters, so I guess whatever you say is right.
Once again, I'm taking this at face value, so if that was a typo, I'll be happy to edit this post so that this part never happened.
Quote from: Tezkat on March 15, 2007, 02:41:15 PM
The notion of "adventuring school" is interesting--I think that's the first official reference to it, although we all know these guys had to learn their Creature-slaying skills from somewhere. Given the heavy Creature domination of Furrae's political and economic landscape, though, one wonders how such organizations would survive in public...
Well, SAIA would presumably have similar problems sticking around due to the Being side of politics...
Quote from: superluser on March 15, 2007, 08:27:40 PM
I thought we knew Devin was gay, but not necessarily Xander. The ``Oh, Xander, I'm sorry I never told you that...'' seemed to only have one interpretation. I mean, they're your characters, so I guess whatever you say is right.
Quoteseemed to only have one interpretation.
Quoteseemed
:mwaha
*pokes Ambers nose* See what you done...Made her go into a super giant evil laughing fit..I pinch?
Quote from: Amber Williams on March 15, 2007, 08:51:15 PMQuoteseemed
:mwaha
Well, I do believe that that's new information. *updates wiki*.
Wow, I could have SWORN that Max Powers himself said he was gay, and that dating Jade was B.C. -- before canon. Kind of like how some of Amber's really early arcs seems to have certain things in them that don't hold true for today's DMFA (i.e. Furcadia references). I clearly have made a big oversight; sometimes things just tend to go over my head.
Amber, you tell us that you create such elaborate backstories stories for your characters and yet we will not ever know them? Evil!
Anyway, I'm not talking about including gay characters in your strip, but having your entire strip revolve around them if you're not gay yourself, well, I do think it is very hard to make it realistic. One of the things about creativity is that yeah, in theory people should expand their horizons, but almost never do you find a book about a black main character written by a white person that focuses on realistic life as a black person growing up in a society close to our's (and vice versa -- all of the great literature from african americans has an african american main character and genrally has a lot of cultural influence). The truth is, we just don't know how it must feel to them. There are some things that personal experience teaches us. The same is true I feel for hetero people trying to understand gay relationships -- one of the criticisms that we get is that we try to think of them as exactly the same as hetero ones, and a lot of gays say that that is just not how it is.
Most video games feature white heterosexual leads because those are what developers are. Almost all books are written from the same cultural standpoint as the author, as are most movies. I guess you either have to go with what you know or settle for being unrealistic. For me though, the trends a lot of art and comics have really bug me, that is: 1.The gay couple either has a perfect realtionship OR that the relationship has a buttload of problems but with, without fail, work out in the end (this bugs me with hetero couples too when the reader knows there is clearly a "right" couple that will predictably end up together -- Alien Dice kind of bugs me for this reason with Lexx and Chel). 2. Every gay character is handsome and romantic, and either ultra-feminine or ultra-masculine 3. The traditional "good angel/bad demon" motif (a softspoken delicate blonde-haired blue-eyed nice guy and the dark, angsty guy)
I've thought about it and that's why I retracted my statement about Jyrras earlier, as there is no reason I should have a problem with him being a gay character. Actually, the things above apply to all couples, though they're just seen mostly in gay couples created by women from what I've seen.
Anyway, my take on "token" characters. "Token" characters are either made to be stereotypical or the antithesis of the stereotype because that is what an outsider views a group as and either is okay with the stereotype or wants to completely oppose it (the fairly odd parents, Ned's school survival guide, and that one cartoon with the white-haired ghost guy both have near-genius, nerdy black characters for this very reason), and the end result of either one are almost completely unrealistic (this is probably okay for cartoons) (I watch them when I babysit my little brother before anyone says anything about my age).
That's all I have to say. I've got a ton of work to do now. Ho hum...
I still don't see a Tigger reference in #759... Anyone care to enlighten me?
Quote from: Aurawyn on March 16, 2007, 10:16:32 PMI still don't see a Tigger reference in #759... Anyone care to enlighten me?
Did you read the thread? I'm pretty sure it's the following:
Quote from: superluser on March 08, 2007, 10:29:55 PMWasn't there a bit about ``Bouncing...it's what Tiggers do best?'' I would have expected something like ``Killing! It's what Demon-mares do best!''
Of course, I think I'd feel better if I were wrong.
Quote from: superluser on March 16, 2007, 10:41:35 PM
Quote from: Aurawyn on March 16, 2007, 10:16:32 PMI still don't see a Tigger reference in #759... Anyone care to enlighten me?
Did you read the thread? I'm pretty sure it's the following:
Quote from: superluser on March 08, 2007, 10:29:55 PMWasn't there a bit about ``Bouncing...it's what Tiggers do best?'' I would have expected something like ``Killing! It's what Demon-mares do best!''
Of course, I think I'd feel better if I were wrong.
Ahh.. I see, I musta missed it... I miss a lot of stuff trying to read web comic and read their forums on a Dial-up connection